uhauling, gender and representation with Nicole Bloomgarden
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Okay, hi guys, my name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome back to X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. If I look tired, it's because it's due in the morning. Oh my god, oh my god, you guys. Um, I have never met anyone in my life who procrastinates more than me. If you've met someone...

introduce them to me. I would love to meet them so I feel less alone, but it's me. I'm the problem. It's me. Anyway, I had such a great night. I went to the premiere of Kristen Stewart's new movie tonight. It's called Love Lies Bleeding and it is so amazing. It's so good. It is kind of gory and

What are the odds?

I don't know. I don't know what the odds are. I'm falling asleep. I'm falling asleep. Anyway, I couldn't pass up the opportunity. I should have edited this sooner, but I forgot that I didn't record my intro part. So now I'm recording it now, which is, yeah, okay.

it's too late. I should have had this done. I am so tired. But the good news is that this episode that I filmed with Nicole is so long. We actually talked for almost like an hour and a half. No, longer. Anyway, I already cut it down and it's

an hour long. So the intro can be a little bit shorter this week. Yeah, but I hope you enjoy this episode. I think it turned out so great. I love Nicole. She's so cool. And I think we had, we talked about so many things, so many things, and you're about to find out. But yeah, I hope you enjoy this week's episode. Quickly, my mental health check-in for this week is I'm feeling good. I have so much work to do. I have so much work going on, which is

Honestly, love that problem. Great problem to have. Not a problem. It's actually not a problem at all. It's a blessing. So I'm stoked. March is going to be really crazy. Really, really crazy. It's going to be a crazy month.

Buckle up. Okay, have fun. I can't wait for you guys to see everything I have in store and all the travel I have. I'm going to South by Southwest next week, next Monday. No, sorry. Next Tuesday, I'll be on a panel. I'm going to be on a panel called The Power of LGBTQ Plus Creators that Hollywood Can't Replicate. And I'm so excited. It's going to be so fun. Yeah, so I'm going there. I'm going back to New York this month. There's just like so much happening and I am happy. So my mental health check-in is I'm working. I'm happy. I'm happy.

Yeah. Can't wait for you guys to listen to this episode and next week's episode and the week after that. And I'm having the best time. I love you guys. Okay. Have a great week. I hope you are having a great week. I'm going to go to sleep now. Okay. Love you. Bye. Are you nervous? Are you excited? I'm a little nervous. No, don't be nervous. I'm a little nervous, but I feel like it's good because it means like...

we do better when we're nervous yeah yeah yeah okay hi guys my name is shannon beverage welcome back to x's and o's a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex today i have a very very special guest uh nicole bloomgarden you may recognize her from tick tock or social media in general you be going viral like often your videos pop off thank you yeah anyway i'm so stoked uh obviously

obviously change of scenery i am in new york city so we are at nicole's apartment and uh yeah it's not live from my bedroom this week it's live from nicole's couch yes and a high rise in new york and it's vibey it's great you like it it's so good thank you it's raining outside uh the rain really fucked me today i got caught in it and i was really late cheers cheers

should we start with like an introduction do you want to tell people like where are you from yeah so i'm from virginia yeah but when people ask i usually just say washington dc that's because yeah i feel like i don't know where virginia is like i feel like virginia is a forgotten state yeah i'm fine with that i understand that's

That's okay. So I just say, yeah, I'm from VA. Nova is what we call it, Northern Virginia. Cool. And then I moved to New York in like 2021. And I'm not going to lie, like I was a bit of a homosexual. Do you know what that is? I have an idea of what you're going to say. It's like I never like officially moved somewhere, like signed a lease until later on. Like I was just like...

I had a girlfriend out here. Yeah. Okay. I had a girlfriend out here and then I was like living with her. And then once that ended, I only like subleased places. And then, yeah, I was just, I was just, and now, and now, and,

But we're both on this lease. Yeah, so I started content back in Virginia in college. So I'm a TikToker. And yeah. Was it always the same kind of content that you're making now? Or do you feel like it's changed? No, it's totally changed. So during quarantine, I was like,

on one just bored in the house I was dancing. - Okay. - And I was just like, don't scroll to the bottom of my page. - No. - Did you ever see my dancing videos? - No, but I want to now. - No, keep it that way. - You post a lot though. I feel like it would take me a while to get down there. - Yeah, I mean, good. - Smart. - Yeah, so I was doing dancing

And then now I do just like comedy sketches and this feels like more aligned. Yeah. Yeah. Can you explain how your dance went viral and then what, like, how did that happen? So the out West dance, shake it out West. Did you do it? Did you do it?

No way. It's so easy. I know. I think I've done like one dance ever on TikTok. Okay. Yeah. So I posted it and it was about a month and a half after I posted it that I actually went viral. And then like, did people like all do it? Yeah. Right. Yeah. I started getting comments saying your dance is going viral because I was posting it. Like I did the first video I posted.

was like a month and a half before it blew up and I was posting it literally every day like hop on this dance hop on this dance were you trying were you like I'm gonna do it and I literally have a text from a girl I was talking to at the time being like I just made a dance it's gonna go viral I literally for some reason I just knew yeah I love when that happens

yeah when something just clicks and you're like this is where i'm supposed to be when i'm supposed to be there it's the best feeling i knew and then yeah so it went viral and then i wasn't getting credit like you know how everyone yeah the dc i wanted the dc dc i wanted the dc and then i tweeted about it and then that tweet went viral and then all the like black creators went on strike do you

do you remember that? Yeah, I do remember that. And then after that, I got reached out to by Fortnite. And then I felt like I was like, all right, I'm not mad anymore. Yeah, that's kind of the best case scenario ever. And then, yeah, I'm here. And then you just kept making content. Yeah, I just kept making content. And I

I mean, like, I feel like you know this too. You've been on the internet longer than me. Sometimes you get in like... Like burnout? Burnout. And so it was about like, I was trying to find my niche for so long. And then like one day I was like, wait, just record this. And I made a skit about being a homosexual.

I made my girl at the time record the skit of me like showing up to her house with no shoes on and just I was like I just got inspired by myself and it worked and it works it works so well yeah and it's so relatable the content is so relatable and so gay it's really gay it's really gay it's just every it's really gay yeah

What was like your coming out experience? Also, can we expose you for your age right now? Because I can't believe you're 23. Yeah. Is that, is that young? It's so young. Okay. Okay. I like being, I'm in the age where I'm like, yeah, call me young. Yeah. You want to stay young. I'm down. I'm in the age where I'm like, I want to stay young. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just getting older by the second.

No, but that's crazy because you've built so much and you're so young. So you should be really proud of yourself. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. But anyway, how did you come out? What was the experience? So I always dressed masculine. Like always. Like when you were little? Yeah. There's photos of me like in my brother's swim trunks and stuff. Yeah. Classic. Everyone always speculated that I was gay. But I remember I got like a couple bitches suspended because they called me gay. Yeah.

Am I allowed to curse? Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, because I was like, uh-uh. Like, I remember having times in my head where I'm like, I'm gonna keep dressing like this, but I'm never gonna tell anyone I'm gay. It's just gonna be my secret. Did you ever have a moment like that? Oh my God. Where you were like, I'm gay, but no one's ever gonna know. Yes. Okay. For a long time. Okay. I was like, this is never coming out. Yeah, yeah. And now look at me. Okay.

all the way out look at us we really came out so then i just like i guess started getting more comfortable with myself honestly the reason i got comfortable with myself is because of my iphone and the internet and influencers totally who like looked like me and i thought they were cool and they looked successful on the internet i'm gonna say some controversial like ellen degeneres

She was the first gay person I saw on media that made me realize like, oh, I can be gay and like successful. Like this isn't wrong. Yeah, literally. So shouts out to like the media and influencing. Like I'm in the position of like, I'm someone that my younger self needed. Yeah, totally. You're like paying it forward now. It was 2017 and I posted to a hashtag called hashtag it's a gay girl. Please.

And then it went viral and everyone... No way. Your first, like, you coming out went viral? Yeah. My coming out went viral on Twitter. Jesus. And that's... So I went from, like, 200 followers to, like, 10,000. And then I just kept posting selfies on Twitter. And then my parents were actually really upset with the fact that I came out to the internet before them. Which I understand because they felt like, like, what, you don't think... They accept me, both my mom and dad. Yeah, they just were like, why didn't you tell them? And...

Yeah, so that's how I came out. I came out on the internet. Okay, you really do go viral. That's crazy. I mean, I try. It's so interesting because I've never had a viral moment. Like, anything I've done has never gone, like, viral viral, which has made the internet so much less scary to me. But, like, you continue to go viral. Does that, like... But what do you mean, like...

Okay, what do you mean by viral? Because I feel like you have consistent high numbers. Well, I like never had something just like out of nowhere pop off. Like everything I have had, like I built it slowly over time. Very slowly. Okay, no, I know what you're saying. So I get, I do have like viral moments. I feel like, like I'll post a video and then I'll get like 10 million views. Yeah. Does it feel when that happens, is it just like validating or do you ever feel kind of like overwhelmed? Mm.

Because that's like a lot of people perceiving you at the same time. No, I don't feel overwhelmed with that part because I'm just like...

For me, the number, I hardly believe the number. And I don't care about the comments, so I don't really care. But sometimes I feel like making content is kind of pointless and I feel childish for doing it. And then when I make content that blows up and then I get comments telling me, like, thank you for everything you do for the community, then I'm like, oh, I'm not just recording myself and like,

With no point. Yeah. No, it's like the validation of like there's a reason for this. Yeah. I feel that. Because it's like, I mean, you really like paved the way, but what was influencing like 10 years ago? Yeah, not this. Or five years ago. 10 years. Or three years ago. Yeah, I know everything changes. It changes constantly. TikTok changed everything so much. Shout out to TikTok. Shout out to TikTok. Shout out to TikTok. I feel like a lot of influencers who were in my position, like TikTok was like...

okay now we have to learn this new thing yeah you know and i remember at the beginning it being kind of when it was still musically people being like this is so stupid like i'm not downloading it i'm not gonna post on it and then it was so funny to watch everyone like and also like scramble to figure it out right oh my god we have to be posted yeah yeah yeah because i mean i feel like you do no you do yeah

it was kind of like embarrassing i feel like right anyone who's figuring it out i remember trying to learn how to edit on tick tock and i was like i don't understand yeah i don't like using ah like threads oh i'm like no no i can't do it i can't do it i can't do it yeah i'm not gonna handle another another uh platform no it's too overwhelming what's virginia like is it open-minded is it liberal i don't even know is it blue or is it red

Is it a swing state? It is blue, I believe. No, it's not open-minded. It was like, I went to like a very white, conservative...

Mm-hmm.

people were so rude to me and I was the outcast so I somewhere in elementary or early middle school I developed this like very hard shell that people were like oh don't fuck with Nicole like she she's mean really yeah that's because I was on defense mode yeah of course of course yeah so when it comes to did I face homophobia not really except one time this dude called me a

In front of everyone. They love to do that. And do you want to know what makes me so mad, Shannon? I froze up. I didn't say anything. You didn't say anything. I know. I didn't say anything. And then you like walk away and you think of a million things you could have said, should have said. Gosh, yeah. It's such a... It like cuts deep, obviously. It doesn't matter how thick your skin gets. It did actually. It did cut deep because...

I mean, especially when you're young, I already felt like I was doing something wrong by being a, "Yeah, that's ." - And now we own it. - Yeah, exactly. But my sexuality at that point in time, no one talked about it. It was just like the elephant in the room. So when he said that, I was like, "Damn." - Yeah, it's like you see it. - I see it. I'm like, "Damn, I am a ." Quiet down. - Don't tell everyone. - Don't tell everyone. - That was just for me. Did you have girlfriends and stuff in high school?

Yeah. I was a freshman. I was dating a senior. Okay. Uh-huh. And it was like, but it was weird because I was in the closet and she told me she had a crush on me. And then I said, I'm not gay. And she essentially said, yes, you are.

Like, who are you kidding? Yeah, yeah. And then we, like, dated secretly, but everyone knew. Yeah. Well, two not straight-looking people are hanging out all the time. No, she looked straight. Really? But I never looked straight. I tried to look straight. I used to try to wear a braid. And I used to try to wear leggings. No. Not leggings. Not leggings.

I feel like I got away with never putting leggings on. Okay. I definitely was wearing dresses. Oh, which is way worse. Come on. That's a little better. Loose dresses? I had to wear dresses for game days. Did you play sports in high school? Mm-hmm. Oh, you guys would dress up game days? On game days. We would wear our sweatsuits. Yes, I loved game days. I was like, I can be a dick in peace, bro. Okay. And I had the opposite experience. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Whether you're selling a little...

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So when did you come out? I didn't come out until I was like your age. Oh. Probably about. I just took my time coming out. I came out to like one girl my sophomore year. I came out to two girls my junior year. And then my senior year, I would just like get drunk and tell anyone everywhere. But it was like still kind of secret. And then I graduated and then I posted a YouTube video and I was like, by the way, I'm gay.

Wait, were you posting YouTube videos before? I was. But they were unlisted. So you couldn't find them unless you followed me on Tumblr. But were they like popular? They would do well, yeah. Like for the time? Yeah. But they were like secret. Like you couldn't find them unless you were following me on Tumblr. But was your Tumblr popping? Yeah. Okay. Back then. Back then. I never joined Tumblr. You know, I think I was...

too young yeah no there's no i was too young no it was like done by the time i feel like yeah i've been around and like you because youtube and everything else was like an instagram you had instagram what all of high school right yeah yeah not me that's how old i am oh my so what'd you have no myspace dare i say i had my oh my god myspace we had facebook we used facebook like before parents got on it you know yeah

Yeah, now it's a family channel, Facebook. Now it's literally like for adults. Pregnancy announcements. And straight people. So true. My straight friends are still on Facebook. Facebook is for straight people. There's your baby. Yes. There's your other baby. Oh my God. There's your wedding. Do you want kids? Maybe. Really? Potentially. Do you? You know, I would want to give birth.

Really? Okay, me too. But I feel like people think that that doesn't make sense. But I think I would look... Imagine me in this outfit and I'm pregnant. You would be like a cute... Because your bump would be like so cute. I feel like it would kind of make sense. Yeah, I also just want to like then...

Where, like, if I'm gonna have a kid, I want that... I want the kid to come out of me. Yeah, I feel you. And then it's like, that's cool. It's... I mean, it's, like, the craziest thing that we can have. In the world. In the world. Yeah. I used to 100% want kids. 100%. And then, I think, honestly, like, 2020...

And beyond, like, Black Lives Matter and then Trump and then, like, the environment, everything just, like, feeling crazy. I was just like, do I want to bring a kid into this? Yeah. And, like, for what? Like, just as, like, a narcissistic appendage? Like, I don't know. Yeah. But I also am not in, like...

In a relationship where I want to have a baby with someone. Like sometimes you'll meet someone and be like, oh my God, let's have a kid. Like I'm like, I can see the future. Can I ask you a question? Please. With your dating experience, like what is...

the one takeaway that you've learned. So, you know, like, a lot of times you meet someone, you like them, and you're like, oh, my God, this is the one. But clearly, I mean, you're single, so none of it's worked. So what's, like, the biggest... I'm just like, I'm going to keep it. None of it's worked. None of it's worked. So what's the biggest thing, like, you've noted? Like, what is...

your biggest takeaway if a relationship is going to work is the right one. I think that more so it's like each relationship shows me more about like what kind of partner that I want. Like you learn a little bit. I've gotten more and more of a clear vision of like what the girl of my dreams would be like, you know, I don't really think you basically just have to go through it. Yeah, you just have to learn. I don't think there's like,

thing that it's like this is what would make it be right I don't know so the overarching like kind of like the reason why like things have failed have just been incompatibility I think so yeah yeah well also timing I think some of I think like my first relationship really really failed because of the timing because I was really young and how old don't say my age

Don't say my age. Like, yeah, like your age. Oh my God. Yeah. Because I also, my first girlfriend was kind of like a lot of my first experiences and I came out dating her. Like I was dating her when I fully came out of the closet. Oh yeah. So I didn't feel like I had like experienced being like a lesbian. That was never going to work. Yeah. Yeah. I was just too little, like it was too little.

And I think like when we were together, I really was thinking in like a Dallas mindset of like, oh, like you fall in love, you get married. And like it took moving away from Dallas and being in L.A. and realizing like, oh, OK. No, you saw the other girls. Yeah.

Don't lie now. No, I'm just saying like I deconstructed a lot of like what I thought about like what you're supposed to do as an adult. Like I literally, my friends were getting married at 23, 24. And when I left, I'm like, oh wait, I don't, I'm not even ready to get married at all. Like I want to have other experiences. Yeah.

So, yeah. So timing definitely has ruined relationships. Not ruined, but, you know, ended them. But speaking of relationships. Yeah. Should we talk about yours? Let's do it. Your girlfriend's year. Yeah. I don't care. Let's go. Let's do it. Okay. So you notoriously U-hauled. Yes. And how's that going for you? Hobosexual. It's in my blood. It's different now. I mean, I'm just, I love deals. So.

No, but people say that U-Hauling doesn't work. And I think it can work. Yeah. Because it's worked before. Like people have moved in in two weeks and they've been married for 10 years. But it just makes it painfully clear if you're going to work with this person. That's what U-Hauling does. Yeah. You know? It's a lot fast. Why do you think lesbians U-Haul in general? I just think that...

Like in a relationship, that person really becomes your safe space in like woman on woman relationships because they're emotionally available to you. It's not like a man and a woman where sometimes they just can't really connect with you like that. So that is your best friend. That is your lover. You feel safe with them. You're like, hell yeah, I want to live with you. So what I've learned from you hauling is, first of all, we work. We work together. But like we do both want to...

Me personally, I need to work on... I have anxiety being alone. I've never lived alone. It's because I have health anxiety. Do you? Oh, really? Yeah. Like, seriously? Not that seriously. I just kind of now learning about it. Like, sometimes I get scared to eat because I'm scared I'm going to choke.

Wow. Yeah. Okay. So literally... That's pretty serious. Yeah. That's right. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. So, so like I've never lived alone because I have like anxiety and like just mental blockages. And before I live with someone like forever, I want to live alone, just tough it out because...

I just need to tough it out. I can get through any... I've gone through crazy mental blockages. I can do it. Yeah. So we love living together. And being with her in this house has made me realize I can be with her for the rest of my life. But you want to... But we're not... This is not like now until forever. Yeah. I'm going to live alone still. Eventually, we'll come back and live together. But...

U-Hauling does just like speed up the relationship. And I honestly do recommend against it. I recommend against it just because like sometimes I, you know, you need to miss a person. You need to like I want to meet up with her in Central Park sometimes. But she's right there. You know, the missing someone is definitely a real thing. Yeah. I think the biggest issue with U-Hauling.

or like in general when relationships move fast like that is it's really hard to slow it down like once you're where you are that conversation it's really hard to slow it down because the other person is gonna feel rejected because you're like we've already set the precedent a precedent of this whatever it is i mean that's the same with any kind of thing in a relationship once you set the precedent like this is how we act this is what we do

to slow down or like take steps back. It's just a really, really hard experience to have. So like the other person feels like they, they sometimes will feel like they're being rejected. I understand that. And then the person who is bringing up this, you might feel like, oh, it's wrong. This is wrong. Yeah. But it's not wrong. No. You just need to do something else. Well, you should be able to like correct yourself.

Yeah, you don't have to be, yes. Like, if you want to stay with someone, we have to fix something here. And this is one thing we could fix. Lucky for me, my girlfriend is, like, very mature in the sense that she is not, she's not going to get hype with me. She's going to take a second. She's going to think. And I'm like, I'm not used to that. Yeah. Like, she'll really hear me out, which is great because I need that, like,

I have severe ADHD. Me too. And I think as an adult, your ADHD doesn't manifest so much physically hyper, but mentally hyper. Like a thousand thoughts at a time. So because of that, I am like a big kid. I was prescribed Adderall in eighth grade.

So once I kind of realized like, oh, I don't want to be taking meth every single day. Fair. I had to learn how to cope with ADHD for the first time as like a 22-year-old. Yeah, that's a very...

intense experience yeah because i can't take that's a lot of your life to be on a drug and i was damn near forced to take it really because i was really bad i was really bad i just like couldn't sit still like the teacher would be talking and i'd be like anyway back to what i was saying like i just couldn't like you needed it i need i did i did need it i actually don't think i needed adderall but i needed something something yeah yeah stranglehold

Just anything. To get through it. I honestly do feel so bad for my teachers. I want to say sorry to Miss Grimes. I'm so serious. And also, who did I like? The principal, Miss Ashahid. You really did your big one with me because she was patient for the first time. No one was patient with me. Yeah, I think that's really what it takes. Yeah. I feel like also it's getting better because now we have more...

of like ADHD. I mean, imagine even like 50 years ago, 20 years ago. And gayness. Like these kids are like non-binary with crazy ADHD and people are just like, oh, she just, this is that. But when I was doing that, they're like, she's going to go to jail. Yeah.

No, I'm serious. They thought I was going to go to jail. To help her. Yeah. Okay, so obviously I've been in public relationships. Yeah. Now you're in a pretty public relationship. Are there like fears around that? Or like, how do you feel being in a public relationship? I'm gonna be honest. My only fear about it is because I do love posting her because she's a big part of my life. I'm making her such a big part of my brand that if I were to stop,

People only want us. Yeah. That is my only fear. As far as like breaking up, let's say that happened and like what the Internet would think. I like I'm telling you, I seriously do not care about the Internet. Yeah. I don't know. I think. Do you care about the Internet? I feel like I'm desensitized to it. I'm desensitized at this point for sure. Yeah. So I definitely used to care a lot.

Yeah, and as far as what people say, does it affect anything between us? No. Not at all. She's been on the internet since she was like 16. I've been on the internet since I was like 16. Like at this point, no. Like it really just, they're just numbers to me and words. Yeah. Would you like post a we broke up video? Absolutely. Yeah.

I bet y'all we broke up chill. We just don't even do we just broke up. Don't ask questions. Goodbye. Yeah, like that Yeah, but no that is she's my bestie. Yeah, she's she's she grounds me because when I'm single I'm I just like I just feel like it's distractions. Yeah for me when I'm single and It's bad energy and I honestly love the life we've built. I love that for you. Yeah, I feel that I

No, because you're like, she's so naive. That's what you're thinking. No, no, no, not at all. I was going to say, I mean, I think that the way... I feel like short form content, like how you have been on TikTok, really creates more of a barrier. It's not as invasive. Yeah, between you and like an audience. So...

It's different than like my like my first really, really public relationship where you guys are just like you guys know us and you are like the parasocial relationship I feel was way more intense with my first relationship in the Internet. Like even experiencing my most recent breakup, the parasocial like thing of that was less intense. Also, there's so much more representation now.

Right. Versus when I... There's just so much content, to be honest. Yes, there's so much content. There's so many couples to ship. There's so many people to care about that, like...

No one is like so gung-ho all in on one couple. But when I was in that relationship, there were not that many. So like people were in there. Oh, I know about you. I've seen you. Now this is living, right? You had longer hair. Oh, yeah. I saw you everywhere. You were everywhere. But like... People like really, like people like cried. People cried when we broke up.

On Twitter, it was like I was seeing people reacting to it. Oh, my. But don't you, like, think about it. Like, doesn't that make you, like, if anything, just worried for the person crying? Well, I think I, like, I. No, but you guys, you really were, like, some of people's only. It was early days. Like, just even gay marriage wasn't legal when I started making videos with her. Like, when we were. Could you guys have gotten arrested? No.

let me stop how old do you think i am i'm like would you guys have gotten like don't ask don't tell what decade was this oh my god i understand why people were invested the way that they were i really i get it but you're an icon you actually are that's not you're an icon no you're actually an icon like you you're like one of the first

You have to own that. Thank you. I mean, you own it. Are you? You are an icon. Like, I mean, just look up the definition of like what an icon is. Like, I'm saying you're an icon, like objectively. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, you paved the way like for me. That's so nice. You did pave the way. Don't start crying now. I know. Okay, you're being too nice. No, I do feel like...

a lot of what I have, like I owe just to timing, like that I did it before other people did it. It's not like, I don't think there was anything necessarily unique or special or amazing about how I did anything I did. It was just the timing of when I did it. But so,

You don't think it was low-key daring? Yeah, no, it was. It was definitely... I definitely stuck my neck out. I stuck my neck out. I stuck my neck out. Like, it could have gone badly. People were definitely like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, why are you posting YouTube videos? And I used to get in Ubers. I always say this story because I think it's so crazy. But when I moved to LA, I would get in Ubers and they'd be like, what do you do? Like, what do you do in LA? And I'd be like, I'm a YouTuber. And they'd be like,

you could make money off of that. Like you, that's a career that you could have. You're actually an icon. And I was like, yeah. You're like Paris Hilton. But then it was only like two years later, I'd be getting in the same Uber and they'd be like, oh, what do you do? And I'd be like, I'm a YouTuber. And they'd be like, can I give you my card? Like, can I show you my brand? Do you want to like, will you promote me? Like the flip, like it switched so fast where the, like everyone was like, there's something here. But who do you, who do you think made that,

Switch flip. You. That's what I'm saying. No, it was like all those early creators really were like doing something. Like no one knew what we were doing. That's cool. That's really cool. But yeah, same with the TikTok thing. I feel like it's its own new, like a new version of an icon, like a new thing. It's a good outlet. It can help people feel comfortable and find people to look up to. That's why I do it. I do it, honestly, I do it for people to feel comfortable

normalized because I mean I literally did not feel normal as a kid oh my god I was like I have this big secret and it's gonna stay a secret because it's wrong so if I credit tiktokers to anything it's that they help people their their representation yeah even the fucking dudes who thirst trap there's someone out there who needs it needs it no truly I mean it's everything it's like even just like

I don't know, people who are into Pokemon. Like the silliest stuff is just like, we need to feel less alone. Like people want, desperately want to feel like they see themselves. And media, like traditional media, is so fucking slow at changing it. Like we're still getting the same like,

The same stupid like sad queer storylines. We're still getting I mean also every queer show ever is fucking cancelled. So yeah, it's like so it's like basically the people have to take it back. Like we had to do it ourselves. Like if you're not going to show us a happy queer couple like I'll do it. We should do a project together. Let's do it. I'm so serious. I'm down. We could do something crazy cool. We definitely could. Like write a show. I'm so down. Or do a queer dating show.

I know. Have you ever thought of doing that? Like queer dating show? Yeah. I feel like it would be so good. Like we need, the queer ultimatum did so well. Right. People were obsessed. Like we could just produce one and then pitch it. Mm-hmm.

I was posting telling people to send in applications for a dating show. And did it work? Yeah, I have so many applications, but I'm just more like, I don't really even have a dating show yet. I know a lot of people don't want to make being gay their brand. People will be like, there's way more interesting things about me than being gay. I'm like, sick, good for you. I don't care at all that being gay is my brand. I do not. I'm like, yes, being a lesbian is my brand. Talking about gay stuff, that is my brand. And I'm doing it.

Because we still need it. Like, it still needs to happen. We're oppressed. Bless you. I'm good. But, yeah. What do you think about that? About, like, being gay as a brand? I don't like it. You don't want it to be. No, no. I don't like when people shame people for it. Because I used to have so much internalized homophobia. And I... And in that moment...

In that era, I agreed. Don't make gay your whole brand. Like, you don't need to shout it from the rooftops. That's when I had internalized homophobia. Now that I don't, I'm like, why are you saying that? Yeah. Also, like, we need the content. We need the content. It's just like... Also, your TikTok is like a case study on how much people want the content. Yeah.

Like they do so well. People are so like relate to them so heavy. It's like people want to hear those things. And if they're all based on real life. Yeah. They're so. Yeah. Like I love the way I love the content you make because it's not like

it's not like you're trying to make these like insane like really deep like comparisons about like queer people it's just like everyday queerness yeah you know it's like very mundane like it's just what it actually feels like to be a queer person exactly and you just make it like silly but it makes you feel so i'm like oh my god yes yeah exactly i watch it i'm like hell yeah i'm really happy to hear that yeah i i honestly like people are like oh my god you're so good at acting

maybe I am good at acting. You're like, I don't want to sell myself short. Maybe I am good at acting, but in those moments when I'm filming, I'm literally tapping into the experience. But I think that actually does make me good at acting. It does, for sure. But I'm hardly acting. Yeah. Well, it's reality. Yeah, it's reality. It is your own reality show. Yes. Okay, something you talk a lot about on TikTok, I feel, is like,

like talk about femme and mask and like labels within queerness. I feel like some queer people don't like that on top of already having to call yourself a lesbian, then you have to come up with another label.

like within it, you know what I mean? Like they're like, why can't I just be a lesbian? Why do you think it's important to be able to say like, I'm a mask lesbian or I'm a femme lesbian or I'm a stud or I'm a... Stud is hilarious. I just think labels, they help people. Like for instance, this is completely unrelated, but I was kept feeling like my heart dropped randomly. This was like started like a year ago.

And I literally thought there was something like wrong with me, something that no one else experienced until I was talking to my therapist and figured out they're like mini panic attacks. Once I found that out and labeled it as a panic attack, I was like, oh, yeah.

other people experience this. I can look it up. I can find a community. This is normal. Yeah. So I think labels, while there's a lot of them, I think it helps people find community and helps people feel less alone. So I don't, I don't like, it does give you kind of some like control in a way to feel like, okay. I like for me, cause my favorite label for myself is chapstick. Lesbian. I knew you, I was about to call you a chap golden retriever. Lesbian.

But a chapstick lesbian, I'm like, ever since I like found that out, now I'll like Google things like, what does a chapstick lesbian wear to a... And then I get like a picture of myself. I'm like, this is not helping me. I don't want to wear that. I'm screaming. I don't want to wear that again. But it is like, it weirdly is like helpful for some reason. Imagine if it wasn't like gay people. Imagine if it was like, I mean, there's so many labels for straight people like...

And they're the same labels. They're the same labels. Literally like tomboy. Yes. And they're not annoying. Like a golden retriever boyfriend. Oh, but that's not extra, but a chapstick lesbian is. And I mean...

The nicknames and the labels, they are extra, but who cares? No. I mean, you don't need to have one if you don't want it. Exactly. But let the people have them if they want them. But people do get their panties in a bunch about it. Seriously. Okay, another question I wanted to ask you. I recently saw this TikTok went viral of...

This guy talking about white creators and black creators and saying that white creators can be mediocre and still be like really successful and working and like getting all these big brand deals and that like black creators have to do more and try harder and make their content like better. They can't just be mediocre. Yes. Do you feel that way? A hundred percent. But this is what I will say.

Just like how I feel about Taylor Swift. I think Taylor Swift is mediocre, but there is nothing wrong with being extremely famous for being mediocre if people like you. True. Okay? What's different with white and black creators is white creators can be trashy and they can curse and they can have their hair all messy and they can talk about raunchy subjects. Black creators cannot. Like, that is where the disadvantage is.

You cannot be ghetto as a black creator because then brands don't want to work with you because their product isn't ghetto. Because if you are acting the same way a white creator is acting, now you are ghetto, all of this type of stuff. There's like stereotypes. Yes. Yeah. So that's what I've found a lot. And my mom always tells me like, clean up your content. Don't curse. Like you have to.

Show people that you're smart. Show people that you can do this because off-rips, they're going to think that you're not. And...

That's just so... Like the bar is already higher. Yes. The standard is already like you have to do. Yeah, I saw these other creators also talking about like going to Coachella or something and they were talking about the white creators and they're like, these white creators are there like wasted doing drugs, like being messy, being sloppy and they're there with brands and the brands are there drinking with them, doing all that stuff and they were like, I didn't drink at Coachella because I didn't want them to see me like that. I'm like...

I'm out of fear that I'll never get to work with that brand again. I'm like that the double standard is like... It's crazy. And I...

I can feel it. I can see it. Even the way that content is pushed for white creators versus black creators, I can feel. It's crazy. Like, I have to worry if I haven't posted in a week that I have to get my views back up because sometimes they'll be low. But it's really powerful. Shout out Victoria Paris. Hell yeah, girl. When they speak on it, just because it is just such a gap and a difference. Last night, I feel like we were talking about

Okay, I thought I thought that was a dream. Um, yes talk about it. Do you like strap-ons? Okay, mom dad This is when you stop watching by the way. Yeah, actually my mom and dad too stop watching I just feel like strap-ons have never been like a staple in any relationship i've had they've never been Utilized like that much. It's always kind of been more like a i've been dating someone we've been sleeping together for like

four or five months and then you're like should we like get a strap on and then you go get the strap on and it's like a whole experience and you're like laughing in the sex store and then you use it like once a month maybe like I don't even know not but not like it's never a staple but I do feel so silly when I have it on I'm like

I feel like I'm going rock climbing. You've never gotten into it? I've gotten into it. I've gotten into it. Like, you've never been like, I'm enjoying this? No, I've definitely enjoyed it. Okay, okay. It's fun. It's like a fun, different thing. But I just don't like the way that, like, I feel embarrassed a little bit. Yeah. And also, I've dated...

people who've slept with men and I've never slept with a guy. And sometimes I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm like, hundred percent people don't talk about that enough. Yeah. Cause so for me, the only time like a strap on has been like one of the main things that we do sexually is if it's been like a sneaky link with kind of like just friends with benefits type of thing. Um, but yeah, I mean, for me, are they like straight girls?

No, I don't like straight girls. I was like a, again, when I had internalized homophobia, I liked straight girls. So no, I don't mess with straight girls. But I don't.

Yeah, maybe they are. I just didn't know. You know? No, yeah. I just don't think like anyone who's going to hook up with me is a straight girl. Yes. I'm like, as soon as you make out with me, you're not straight to me anymore. I mean, okay, make out maybe. But if you're going to like hook up with me, I'm like, okay, you are queer. Yes. At least a little. Yeah. Especially if you're going to go down on me.

Me too. Then come on. You're gay. Like a straight girl would not do that. No, no. Yeah. But okay. I like using a strap on. I think that...

Like men, their penises, they are intuitive with their penis. They can feel it. Yes, yes. They can feel it. It's sometimes really hard because you're not feeling it. They can't feel it where it is. I'm like, well, I don't know. Yeah. There's nothing worse than when you're wearing a strap-on and it slips out. Yeah. It slips out.

It's just like you. Why does it make me so embarrassed? Like I feel embarrassed. Like I'm like, sorry. You need to be strong. Yeah. To use a strap-on. You need to be physically strong and fit. It takes work. Yes, it takes a lot of work. It's work going on. But it does. It's a fucking workout. It does arouse me. I like using it. I don't like it used on me. Used on you. Yeah. Yeah. I like it both ways. That's cool. I don't.

No, but that's cool. I do like using it, but it's not like a staple. But I do I do want to get more comfortable with it. And something I just want to talk about real quick, because I was having like a literal crisis because I was like, when it comes to sex, sometimes I want to have a dick.

yeah yeah yeah that's what we were talking about that's what we were talking about last night okay yes yeah and then for a while i was like what does this mean yeah like is this like a trans thing yeah it's a trans thing but i just think because we are masochistic and we're having sex with a female like and femme girls femme girls i think we have a similar type yeah we just i think we're a similar type i think we are similar yeah yeah we are similar because we're like

You have such a girly face. Mm-hmm. That's why I feel like me too. Yeah, and we're also not very tomboyish personality-wise. Yes. Like, we are. No, like, I'm a girl. Like, I'm a lady. Yeah, we are, but I'm, yeah, I'm a lady. Yeah. At the end of the day, like, I'm a lady, period. Yeah.

Period. And sometimes I want to have a penis on my outside. Exactly. But I'm a lady. Don't get me twisted. But I just want to say I was seriously like stressed. I was like, am I a transgender? I'm like, no, I want to be a woman. Yeah. I just want to dick sometimes and that's fine. I think it's honestly because...

Well, I have, I'm not going to tell you why you would think that, but I felt the same way. So I think for me, where it comes from is I'm like, I want to feel pleasure at the same time as my partner. And I want the pleasure to be from the same thing. You know what I mean? Like, obviously there's a lot of things you can do.

as lesbians or like you can be like both fingering each other at the same time whatever but it's not like the same like I want to feel like more like lost in it I guess and I'm like you can't really get that feeling exactly I guess like scissoring you can but then I love scissoring me too yeah also a lot of work unless you have something you could tell me I don't find scissoring a lot of work really yeah what position are you in

Okay, so we can talk about it later. But for me, it's seriously not a lot of work just because it's not exhausting any of my muscles. Using the strap-on exhausts my muscles. Yeah, same. Yeah. I think it's like, okay, I like the concept of the strap-on, but I want to feel it. Yes. I would, yes. And I would also be able to like,

Hit it better. Yes. If I was feeling like it is no. Can we like design? Someone needs to design something. Please. Something where you like have a sensation. And not just a vibe. No. Have you ever tried a vibrating one? Yeah. I actually don't think I have, but.

I don't believe it would do anything. Like maybe it would. I should try it. Have you ever tried like a double side, like one that's like shaped like this? Yeah. But it doesn't like, it's too big. This part is too big. Yeah. It is too big. It is for me. Yeah. But also I feel like I still need a harness. Yes. You still have to wear it. But also it's too big. Like I literally feel like it's like a, feels like it's going to shove out at any moment. Yes. It's like I have, I have like put it in and I was like, it hurts. It hurts. Yeah. Yeah.

God, someone design something better. Should that be our project? I'm down. I'm down. But that would be a great project, but how do we even get started? I don't know how to get started. I'm curious from an audience perspective, since they're mostly gay women, do you ever wish you had a penis? I want it to be gone the second I'm done having sex. And I don't even want it often. Just sometimes I'm like, this would be...

That would feel so good. Okay, wait, I have a question for you. Okay. And I'm hoping that this is not, I must, I'm just prefacing it. I'm not trying to offend anyone and I'm not trans, so I don't know if this would offend a trans person. What are you going to ask me? It's a question I ask a lot of my friends like in real life. Okay. Because I think it's interesting, but I just don't want to offend anyone because obviously we don't know. But do you think if your soul was born in a boy's body, would you feel like

Like you're trans. Because I will ask this question to like really feminine girlfriends of mine, like really feminine friends. And they're like, if my soul was in a boy's body, I would know that I'm a girl. And I'd be like, why am I in this body? I think if my soul was in a boy's body, I'd be okay too. If anything, I probably do identify more as non-binary than anything, but I love to be a woman and I love women. So it's like...

But I just think if I was born and I didn't know anything else and you put me in a little boy's body, I would also not be trans.

Like I'm not trans as a woman and I don't think I would be trans as a man. Does that make sense? No, if I was a guy, I would stay a guy. Yeah. I can do whatever. I think that like my soul is not that attached to my gender. Yeah, mine either. I love being a woman because I love women. So like, I'm like, this is awesome. And I don't really like men. Yeah. In general. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm happy that I'm a girl. That is like a great question. How do you feel?

about being masked and dating femmes. Does it ever make you feel too boyish? Or like, do you... Okay, I guess for me, I'm like, I want to be asked on dates. I want someone to open the door for me sometimes. I want, like, I will do those things and I probably do them more than any partner I probably will ever have. But I still like people to do that for me. Like, I don't want to feel like I am a boyfriend sometimes.

Yeah. Do you think boyfriends should be treated that way, though? Like, where they don't get that treatment? That's a great question. I don't... I think that they should be treated the same. I think you're right. Yeah. So I just kind of expect that. Because I've never... I don't think that the guy should just be the one doing that type of, like, chivalrous... Thoughtful. Yeah. Yeah. Because to me... It's just caring to me. It's just, like, thoughtfulness. Yeah, it has no gender. Yeah. Yeah.

So true. Yeah, you know? So I'm just like, to me, if my girl opens the door for me, that's not her being masculine. That's her just showing that she loves me. And my girl does. She gets me flowers and stuff. And I guess...

I mean, whatever you want, whatever mindset you're at is what you're going to attract. So when I was in that more like toxic masculinity stage, I attracted women that did treat me like a boyfriend. But now... Boyfriend. Yeah, a boyfriend. But now I... They're definitely going to say we're trans. I know.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But now I attract and my girl just treats me like, not even like a woman. She just treats me good. Yeah. Well, yeah. So true. Yeah. So I do expect that. She treats me good. She treats me well. Yeah. You heard me say well. No, I know. I was like, that was not proper English of me. Sorry. But I have a question for you. Okay. You have to promise to answer honestly. Okay. Are you...

actually and genuinely over all of your exes yes thank god yeah thank god yes i am i feel like a lot of people literally most people in life are never actually over their fully over them yeah i do think and there's something about like lesbians that whatever that trope is of us like being stuck on someone uh or like never over your last girlfriend yeah no i feel i

fully over all of them. But I also tried to make each one of the relationships work until I ran them into the ground, basically, I feel. Like, I very much so am someone who's like, I'm not giving up on this. I'm not giving up on this. So when I walked away from each of them, it was like, okay, I know for sure that that is not going to work. That's done. So you've had, like, the horrible lesbian breakup?

I don't think any of them, well... Just like, what I mean by horrible is like it broke you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a really bad one. Really? I had a really bad one. And it's like... Is it your first one? I'm happy it happened because it's never going to happen again. Seriously. It was... Yeah, I would consider it my first one. I dated people before, but it was never this deep. Oh, my...

Gosh, Shannon, it was really bad. I was like 20, 21. And I think the reason why it was so bad is because it was my fault. I just was like not a conscious human being. I just... Your brain's still not finished. Yeah, I'm still not a conscious human being. Still not done. But I was like in college and I didn't know...

anything about like i was drinking every day that was college yeah i i didn't know that that was wrong even so i didn't even like say like changing that was on the horizon because i didn't know it was wrong everyone was drinking every day in college also like even if you weren't someone was yeah exactly at all times and i was just like uh not great mentally but i didn't know i wasn't great mentally i didn't know anything and i just like ruined the relationship and it

And it broke me. Really? Like you regretted it? Like not the relationship, but your act, like how you acted. Yeah, completely. And I just felt like a horrible person. I felt horrible because I was insecure. So I was, I was getting upset about things and I was like,

acting out of character and then I'm so the breakup was like so much worse because I was like what's wrong with me yeah and then I it just it destroyed me well it's like when your actions aren't aligning with like your character or like who you know and believe you can be at your core there's nothing worse than that feeling I'm just like that is the worst feeling in the world it was confusing yeah I've done things that I'm like

oh my god who was that like i would never do that to someone i would never i would never let my friend do that to someone i was like what was i doing like am i a bad person yeah oh it's my whole thing i'm always scared i'm like i must be a bad person so i i guess what hurts me there is because she i don't know i it just destroyed me do you feel like you're over all of your exes yes i'm over all of my exes

That situation, though, I actually was sitting outside with my friends, just having a glass of wine, and she walked by the first time I ever seen her since 19. This was like, or since like 20. This was like four or five months ago. I'm over her, but I was just like... The feeling. I felt something. It was just scary because I just... That situation is what jump-started my healing journey. I was just like, oh my God, there's so many things wrong with me. But it destroyed me, but then I built myself back up.

And now I'm here. Yeah. But it was just like seriously horrible. Yeah. I would say my like my first, first, first girl I loved that was horrible. That was like not in the public relationship, like something that was like a sneaky thing I did in high school. That was horrible because it was like.

it was unrequited love, but it wasn't because we really loved each other. But she was like, we can't do this because we're going to hell. And so it ended for that reason. So like that one ate me up forever and ever and ever and ever and ever. I was like,

And I felt like so much stuff between me and her was unsaid. And I never got to say what I wanted to say about it. You're going to always have that. Yeah. Well, because what is closure? You know? Right. Imagine you could have that talk. What would even... What is the talk? Yeah, what is the talk? But sometimes it does. Sometimes the talk helps. Yeah. What was it like growing up gay with African parents?

Your mom is African? My mom's African. My dad's white. I saw, I've seen your TikTok where you went to that wedding and you were like the traditional male outfit or whatever. So my mom, bless her heart. I love you, mom. Accepted me down. She accepted me down. It seemed like in that video too. She goes to war for me. And if anyone comes up to me, I will tell them like. Yes.

The hard part is the guilt I feel for the kind of backlash that she gets from her family. She has had multiple people tell her like, pray for your daughter, like blah, blah, blah, this, that, and the third. A bill was just passed by parliament in Ghana to make being gay and the promotion of gayness and allies illegal. It's one of the harshest,

And allies? It's not even anything. Yes. And I've featured her in my videos before and she's just like, I'm not going back to Ghana now. And I feel a lot of guilt because she doesn't even feel like she can go back to her motherland. Not even because of danger for her because obviously she's not queer, but just... Because of you. Me and family and stuff. So that is the hard part. It sucks. I feel like I'm disconnecting her from her roots. But...

She accepts me. And I feel like she's the same as me. Like, if you don't accept it, she's not even really trying to talk to you either. I was going to say, do you feel like she even feels a loss in that way? Because she genuinely stands by you and it's like... Yeah, I don't think she does. Yeah. But obviously, there's going to be guilt there. Yeah. For me. And then my dad...

He's just, he's cool. He just accepts everything. But the African parent thing is, I'm so blessed. But with gayness within the African community, it's so behind. Yeah, I would say. It's so behind. I feel like anywhere outside of like America and even Australia is like really behind. It's so weird. Oh yeah. I find it hard to travel as like obviously gay black person, especially when I'm bringing my boo with me. Yeah.

me yeah i'm like where can we go trip yeah did you go costa rica it was it was fine there i mean we got invited as influencers so they knew what it was so that's easy puerto rico san juan super gay friendly i was walking around saw queer people everywhere that's nice it's really important to find those travel safe destinations though and people don't understand you should have travel anxiety it's scary out here for gay people it's like obviously gay people

Especially like people of color like you got to be careful. Yeah, I feel I can't even imagine because I feel I feel scared I've dated people in the past who've not dated women before or like or like came out later in life or are Younger a little and like have less internalized homophobia than me and sometimes I would feel like okay

okay, like you don't get it though. This isn't safe. Like I don't feel safe. Have you ever been like, don't hold my hand? Yeah, me too. And I feel like that makes me feel really bad. And I also feel like I'm a pussy or something, but I'm trying to keep us both safe. No, literally. I'm like, I can't protect you. Yes. I can't protect myself. I can't protect me. So I don't know what to do. But I'm like, I think there is obviously, there is some internalized homophobia within myself. Yes. One. So I'm like, I do see that.

But there is that. There's reality. It's based in reality. It's not like based in something I've made up. So like I'm like, oh, sometimes gay people get hurt. Like that's true. You know what I mean? I'm like, I don't know. In Italy too. Italy is not really that good with gay people. Have you ever been to Greece? No. I felt scared in Greece, but I don't know how much of that was anxiety. So that's why I'm always hesitant to say because I get a lot of anxiety with that. I don't want to.

hold hands doing anything unless it's like we got invited or just anything. It's just I want to keep us both safe. Totally. Especially when you look at... I already look good. Yes. I don't even have to do anything. Yes. And when you date women who are hyper femme and men want them... Then they're even more mad. And then they see you with them. That's where it gets like... To me, I feel more scared too because they're like...

Fuck you for taking that girl from like me, which first of all, she wouldn't like you. But it's like the aggression feels more towards me. Absolutely. So I'm like, I'm scared. Yes.

What's a gay-friendly place you've traveled to? I don't know, because I guess I also don't test it that much. Yeah. I'm not doing the most. But I want to do the most. Oh, Portugal. Portugal. You should go to Portugal. Stop. Really? Oh, my God. So gay-friendly. Really? So many gay people. I'm going to Portugal. They have gay clubs, gay bars. I'm going. It's super, super gay. I'm going. I was holding hands the whole time. I'm going. Yeah, I didn't care at all. I'm going. And the beaches. I'm going.

Amazing. You have to go. I'm going. I love traveling. Me too. What's your sign? I'm a Pisces. Pisces. What are you? Taurus. Let's finish this so I can tell you more too. Okay. Did you have fun? Yes. Did you actually? I had a great time. I think we did a good job. Yeah. You should have a podcast. You ask really good questions. Really? Yeah. Oh my God. Thank you.

Yeah. Did you guys like this episode? And should Nicole be on again? If you come to LA, we should do it again. So we can do it proper in my bed. Yes, please. Okay. Follow Nicole on all their socials. I called you now. Oh my God. You don't want me to be a girl so bad. I don't know what's going on. Okay. Oh my God. Okay. On his socials. Like, come on.

Okay, follow Nicole on all her socials. Do you have anything coming up that people should pay attention to? Yeah, I have something dropping soon. You just have to stay tuned to find out. Hell yeah, pay attention. And she's hilarious and her TikToks are amazing. So follow her. And on Instagram, you are so beautiful. Oh, thank you. You and your girlfriend are literally, I want to take your picture sometime. Please. Yeah, I'd love to. Okay, thanks for watching. Goodbye. Bye.