lover boy and twunk with Connor Franta
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Where are all the five foot something girls? Go to work all day, come home, scroll TikTok. Yeah.

Um, if you know what that is, then I love you. If you don't know what that is, then that will make no sense to you. But I have a feeling that this is the right demographic for that joke. So I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. What the heck is up, you guys? Okay. Hi, guys. My name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome back to X's and O's. So happy to have you here this week. Can you even believe I don't have a hat on and my hair is down? What a treat. It's a treat just for you guys. I hope you enjoy it. I hope you're happy.

The forehead's out. There she is. Today's intro is going to be pretty short. Pretty short? Uh, hello. It's okay. Zoe just came home and I'm filming with my door wide open. I don't know why I'm doing that. Would you mind closing my door? Oh, look who it is. Hey guys. Wow. That was like ASMR-y.

Before I get started, if you're watching this on YouTube, I would be so appreciative if you hit the thumbs up button or comment below. And if you're watching on Spotify or listening on iTunes or wherever the heck you are consuming this podcast, if you have time to rate it, it means the world to me and it really helps apparently. So I'm going to keep telling you guys that. So yeah, if you have time, I would love you to do it. Also, there is Patreon content from this episode. It is up right now. So if you're watching, if you're listening, there is...

extra content on Patreon with me and Connor. You can find the link in the below. You can find the link in the below. You can find the link below and it's just patreon.com slash nowsisliving so it's not hard to find if you want to sign up and get that extra content. I feel like yeah.

There's good stuff coming. Good guests coming. You guys might want to watch. And there will be content on Patreon of everyone, Connor included, who I love so much. And I'm so happy Connor came on the episode. Came on the episode. I don't know what's going on. I'm so happy Connor came on.

on the podcast because he doesn't often talk about his relationships or love or sex on his content and if you've followed him for a long time which I have and I love him I've always been curious I mean I know him so I've talked to him in real life but I've always been curious to know more about like what y'all's relationship is with like his relationships like what do you know what don't you know

Well, today you're going to find out some stuff at least. And I hope you really like it. He is the most adorable boy in the world. And yeah, it's fun to every once in a while mix it up. Have a boy on. Yay. Okay.

I did my thing this week again where I kept a note and honestly there's not that much to go over. I wanted to just tell you guys that I did get a cold plunge and it does look like a pickle jar and I'm going to post like a picture here so you can look at it. But if you follow me on Instagram, you've already seen it. I haven't gotten in it yet. I think that would be funny content to put on Patreon if you guys want to see that. Maybe I'll do it. Do a little...

Do a little talking in the cold plunge. I've never done a cold plunge before, and I'm not sure I'm interested in that lifestyle, but I now own a cold plunge, so maybe things are changing. It's my health and wellness year, apparently. Things are gonna... I'm gonna be fit as fuck. Doubt it, but I would love to try. I would love to try to get more fit. Let's do it. Anyway...

Last thing I want to talk to you guys about is that next week I am going on a cruise with my mom, my dad, they're divorced, my sister and my brother-in-law and me. I'm going to be by myself. Awesome. But it's going to be so much fun and I'm going to be posting a lot on Instagram and Snapchat. So I just wanted to tell you guys now you should definitely follow me on those platforms if you want to see all of that content. I also will be filming an episode with my parents because they are exes. I'll

Although they are straight, which this is usually we're talking about queerness, but they are exes. So it does fall under the category of this podcast. I think it'll be really interesting. I think it's beautiful that they've been able to maintain a friendship with each other even after getting divorced. So I want to talk to them about that and other stuff. If you have questions for my parents, please leave them in the comments below on this video so I can look at them and ask my parents questions.

Obviously, they will also probably talk about me and tell you more about me from when I was little. And maybe we can talk about like my queer coming out story journey and when they knew I was gay.

what they thought about it, etc, etc. I also want to have my sister and my brother-in-law pop in and talk. I know you guys, I already did an episode with my sister. She's a therapist. And if you haven't watched it, you should watch it. A lot of people really liked it, but it was short. So maybe a little bit extra content with Casey in this one. We can talk more therapy stuff. So again, if you have questions for Casey, my mom, my dad, or my brother-in-law, Jared, please leave

Leave them below so I can ask them. I think it's going to be really funny. But yeah. And also follow me on all those other platforms. They're all... Everything is in the link below. Everything's below all the time. You can always read it. I have it there for you. And I hope you know I also always have the guest information down there. So if you're ever watching and being introduced to someone, you don't know anything about them, you can find all their content below. I try my best to link the best pages that you guys can go and creep and lurk because everyone I have on this podcast, I think, is...

awesome and has a great story to tell. So whatever that story is, you should check it out whenever they're here. Okay, that's really all I have to say today. Quick, easy, painless, shorter than last week, I know. I think the intros just depend on whatever is going on in the week and whatever I feel willing and able to share. And that's really all I want to talk about this week. So anyway, enjoy the episode. Love ya! 🎵

Okay, hi guys. My name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome back to X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. And I'm so excited for the guest we have today. He's an OG YouTuber. He is a published author. He's very gay. It's a dry quote. Yeah, his name is Connor Franta. And he is also the second boy I've ever had on the podcast. Commotion for men, yay.

we need representation representation we need it we have it so hard can i confront you about something that you did to me last time we met up yeah i'm kidding like what did i do did i do anything because that's my favorite thing to say is like can i confront you about something matt king says that all the time or when someone walks by you and you don't know them you say like we were just talking about you oh my god that's horrible don't do that don't do

And also like, wait, what did we... Last time we saw each other was the coffee shop. Yeah, we were in a coffee shop. What is that coffee shop called? Canyon Coffee. Why is everyone obsessed with that coffee shop? Well, I think people, it's like a little blip in time. They do make really good, like it's really great coffee. Fun fact, the owner of that coffee shop actually went to my college and knew my sister and...

The only reason I knew that is because when she was visiting town, we went to the coffee shop and she saw the person she knew. And I was like, that's just very like simulation-y strange. That's so bizarre. Wait, and where are you from? Minnesota. Minnesota. Oh, for sure. Oh, don't you know there. Oh, it's cold up there in Minnesota. I can't believe. So super Midwest. Yes. Super.

Like the Midwest of the Midwest. Like 4,000 people in my town, cornfields surrounding us. I raise sheep. No. And also 4,000 people. And don't you have like a lot of brothers and sisters? Two brothers, one sister. Okay. But still like family of six. Yeah. And then you have nieces and nephews. My brother has two kids. Cute. Pandemic kids. So I drove to like Portland to go. That's so nice. Do that whole deal. Okay. Well...

I'm so glad you're here today. I have so many questions for you. Do you? I'm terrified. I really do have so many questions for you. I like driving over here was just like, I don't like do podcasts often. I know. I was trying. One of my favorite things to do before I have someone on is look at what they've talked about on other podcasts. And I was like, you haven't been on a podcast in...

like over a year no just book tour when i like promote my books i do kind of the circuit um and usually that's like hyper specific about what you've written what you've written about or like i don't know what's happening at the time it's less vague it's very driven driven conversation yeah which i think is kind of boring i like like the fluidity of just talking about yeah what we even did today or what have you totally but i don't know

Are podcasts intimidating to you at all just because it's so you're not in control at all? No, I'm totally confident and totally excited to be here. A relationship podcast, someone who's notoriously kept every relationship he's had secret. If you've been a fan of the show for a while, then you've definitely heard me talk about Tomboy X in the past. They're the sponsor of today's podcast episode. Tomboy X creates sustainable size episodes.

and gender inclusive underwear, swimwear, and loungewear. I love their boxer briefs. They make everything from bikinis, briefs, underwear for packing and tucking, and also compression tops. They have everything. And they also have everything from 3XS to 6X.

Supporting them helps support my podcast and also supporting them means you're supporting a queer-owned company, which we love. If you want to check them out, go to www.tomboyx.com slash Shannon for 20% off everything in the store. Thank you, TomboyX. I love you so much. I asked you to get coffee. Specifically, we went so we could talk about potentially doing the podcast because I was like, would Connor even go on a podcast that's about relationships and sex? Yeah.

Yeah, and I'll just like navigate it my own way. I'll happily talk about... The funny thing is, is the longer you don't talk about things, both like people are still interested in it, but also people think they can't ask you questions. Yeah. Which is great. It's respectful. But there's also, I'm like, well, if no one's asked, you can like try asking. Yeah, yeah. You can try. See what I'm going to say. No, I was like really actually...

that you would be like, no, but I'm so glad you're here. I really thought you were going to say, no, I'm not going to do it. But... Would you get my podcast? No. Well, you said we can get coffee to talk about it. I'm like, okay. Well, it was awesome meeting coffee with you anyway. I'm such a professional. Also, thank God because we hadn't hung out since...

I had a party at my house. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that went really well. And that was also the first time we'd seen each other. Like, you and I are notorious pop in, pop out. Mm-hmm. And, like, pretty... It's kind of... It's almost weirdly, like, it's like old friends. It's that element of, like... But we've barely hung out, really, if you think about it. No. And then that was... You also always bring this up every time we meet up. Like, we should hang out more. I know.

But we never do. And then we both of us love to travel, though. And to go like I feel like neither of us are just like here. No, we're definitely not. So we're beat bopping around. Yeah. But yeah, you hosted a party and I went and I was just like, wow, it's just like an oasis of lesbians, like a sea of non-binary femmes. Like it's it's crazy. Literally, it was that was a good party. Actually, it's exciting.

Everyone actually hated that party, but I liked that party. But that's because I only hung out with you like all night. Yeah. Yeah. I had a great time. I stayed until it's the latest party I think I've stayed to stayed at in the last like five or six years at being in LA. We're there till like 430 in the morning. I did an honor. I did a sinful thing. I drove through the McDonald's drive through. Hell yeah, you did. Yeah, because I was fucking sober that whole party. I was like one of my like, I'll go to like hang out with people.

Okay, but really impressive that you stayed that late. Oh, it was great. It was so fun. Yeah, that was fun. Okay. Anyway, I also feel like maybe people don't even know that we know each other. Oh, definitely not. I remember, I think we made a TikTok that night. I think Zoe did. And me and you were in the TikTok. For real? Yeah, we were wearing like...

outfit the outfits that we were in and then some i remember a bunch of the comments being like connor and shannon like i don't think we've ever posted anything really acknowledging that we know each other but yeah that could be true i mean yeah yeah it definitely could be true i mean i even get that with art and art and i are like best friends and the amount of comments we still get of people being like they know each other i'm like i'm her maid of honor

We know each other well. Really well. Really well. I just saw her tits 10 minutes ago. We know each other very well. Oh, my God. Shout out Arden. Yeah. Well, people don't even know Zoe and Luna are sisters. I don't think I knew that either. It's crazy. People don't know. Also, I feel like we are really the type of people when we hang out in real life, we're not the type of influencers who are like, okay, now...

pose with your coffee. Like I've never been good at that. I can't do it. It's kind of unfortunate because it does, it is a smart business tactic, but I don't feel comfortable when someone does it to me. So I never do it to other people, but yeah. I'm always very welcoming of it if someone wants to do something, but I do not initiate. You're right. Like sometimes I'll send Arden or Matt or one of my friends like a

a sound from TikTok and it's like next time we see each other we need to like record something. Never happens. Yeah, never happens. Never happens. I'm so like that. Yeah, I think you're right though. I think it's for us it's technically bad business. We should be better. We're not really doing a good job at our job. Absolutely not. But anyway, I digress. Yeah. Well, that also leads me to one thing. I always felt like

early days, like a long time ago, people used to compare me to you a lot in my comment section. Like they would be like, Shannon, you're like the girl Connor Franta. I, yes. Which is such, I just have to say an honor because I think you have the most beautiful YouTube videos of anyone. So,

still to this day every time I watch I'm like so impressed you make everything gorgeous oh thank you and it sounds so good and I love the way you're doing like your camera panning now thank you it's so satisfying to watch it's literally like you grown up from that like jump cut to this like cinematic beautiful and

Anyway, I think you're amazing. Do you see I'm so uncomfortable with being complimented? You're like, stop it. I'm like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, thank you. No, but it's really, they're so beautiful. That's very sweet. I enjoy, I've always, almost like ironically so, enjoyed the post-production process more than, or even like the pre-production, but the actual being on camera, even right now, is like- Not your favorite part. It's, I don't know if I've ever gotten used to it necessarily. I think I like the-

I like making something out of the video that has been filmed and choosing the color scheme and even choosing the color scheme for the video. And yeah, you're so good at that. Oh, thanks.

It's probably neurodivergence because I'm like, I'm like incredibly I'm like hyper focused on it or I'll like move something in the background because it doesn't like fit the feng shui. Would you ever make a movie? I would love to. I've been writing scripts lately. Yeah, I've been working on like it's hard scripts are like you get like 33% through and then you're like,

pause yeah and that just kind of sits there I don't know I've never written anything in my life but you're writing books and scripts and I like the writing process it's fun and the scripts are fun too mine have been like kind of like my YouTube style in that like I overindulge the details but that's more of like a directorial perspective on a script so I need to like not like tone that down and just get the

get to the meat and potatoes. Which is like, frankly, if you read a lot of scripts, they read kind of boring because all the charisma and all the charm is added after. Or in the performance. There's so many layers to it. So I've got like three that I've been writing, but none of them are anywhere near finished. And would they be queer? Is that important to you? Do you feel? Do you know what's so funny? One of them is, but the other ones are not. And my manager was like,

Like shouldn't they obviously be and I was like one call me the F slur like to Probably yeah, I guess they should but yeah, I don't know They usually could be like morphed into it like one was a horror one was a drama Yeah, I would love to do a horror This episode is brought to you by Shopify whether you're selling a little or a lot

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I love horror too. Did you watch Bodies, Bodies, Bodies? Absolutely. So good. Absolutely. I went to one of their premieres and Rachel Sennett was like so funny in person too. They like called her up to do like, you know, the little premiere thing. Yeah. And it was just like, oh, you're just, you're like. She's perfect. Yeah. You're like that person in person, which is great. She's also so nice. I just saw her at Love Lies Bleeding. Did you see that movie? Oh my God. I've been reading.

raving about that movie amazing it's incredible it's so good she was there at the premiere amazing in la and then we went to like the after party thing and she's so nice she knows my roommate zoe oh really okay great yeah and then she came up to me and she was like i feel like i see you she's like i feel she's like do you live you live around where i live i feel like i i've seen you walking around and i've literally one time we got our nails done at the same salon and i was like i wonder if she remembers that or what it is but regardless i

It's so nice when you meet someone who is truly an A-list celebrity and they are a person. Yeah, yeah. And it's also very rare. Yeah, it's not all the time. No, no, no. Yeah, but usually you meet celebrities, not to pull the veil, but most of them just incredibly boring and incredibly close.

closed off there's this element which i mean i kind of can't blame them there's this like a self-protection probably for some of them too because they're like oh yeah you know you know me so you're like probably analyzing me and it's true even me saying like rachel sent it so nice like i was like analyzing her you are able to remember it's why like yeah it's why i don't ever like even if someone's closed off i never be like oh they were in

asshole. I'm like, I don't know. Everyone has their moments. We were, I was in public with another YouTuber the other day and we both left like a coffee shop. And I was like, isn't it weird? Like, are you very aware of people around you at all times? And he's like, oh yeah, I wanted to leave because I thought someone was listening to us. No way. And there's an element of just being like, like whether that's true or not, this element of just like,

totally it's almost like a paranoia oh incredibly I think I know we talked I talked about this with Chris Clemens when he came on the podcast but basically I know her yeah the best ever but we were talking kind of about his paranoia when it comes to dating and like oh yeah this is a dating podcast yeah we do talk about relationships I know we're talking about everything I'm celibate no but do you did you have that experience or do you feel that experience like kind of feeling like

paranoid or scared that someone knows you and like then isn't telling you or like anything like that completely i um i would say i go through i go through phases where like i'm more okay with it and more and less okay with it it's taken a while to be comfortable with it this idea of like being on dating apps and not knowing if someone knew more about you than you know about them as well as if they're i think to chris's point in that video because i watched it um

whether they like have an intention with you that they're not stating and again whether that's true or not the paranoia is very real yeah of like how do i know that this person isn't lying to me totally when i'm on here i think even chris said it in his words like i'm on here for a relationship i'm not on here to like fuck around i'm not on here to be played i'm on here looking for love yeah so to even have that

apprehension is not good for me going into a relationship and frankly not fair to the person either but yes so true it's like your guards already a little bit

it up and then you add any other part of your life to add more to that guard being up completely which i'm sure we have i think for me the bigger paranoia i've realized is less about if someone knows me going into dating them and more about the fact that they could consume so much of my content if they wanted to like yeah you can go back and especially because it's

We have very different trajectories in our careers and how much we've shared of relationships. Yeah. But... So a lot out there for both of us, though. Yeah. Just like a huge digital footprint. But yeah, the fact that I could date someone and they could go back and watch...

you know, my first relationship. They could see my second relationship. They can see my third relationship in different formats. That's so true. I hadn't thought about that. They have actual visual representation of your past partnerships and how they played out as well. If they really wanted to look, they could see it. And I won't know. Someone could tell me they're not looking and they could be looking. Of course. And also, like, I think in general, too, the fact that all three of my biggest relationships

are like, not necessarily that they're all public people, but like they all have public profiles. So it's also like you can compare yourself to those people. Yeah. Which I think, I think as girls, I don't know, I can't speak for men because I've never been one. Speak for men, they speak enough for everyone else. But I think for girls, it's already really easy to compare yourself to other women. So adding that as another element, like that's kind of where my paranoia comes in. Less about like, oh, do you know me? Because I feel like

I don't know. I feel like I'm a good judge of character too for the most part. So I can tell if someone's just interested in me for the right reasons. Definitely. But yeah, I think the digital footprint of it all is scary. I mean, the fact that you've been on YouTube for how long? I mean, I think it's one of those where I always forget the dates, but it has to have been at least 13, if not like 14 years. Which...

Which means it would be half my life. Half my life has been online to a certain extent. So you could scroll back and see. Yeah, that's crazy. And also, it'll be more than half your life eventually if you continue down this path. No, it's just going to like... It'll all get deleted. There's a button that's ready to go and I'll disappear into the woods. It's so, so crazy. Okay, so should we talk about the journey...

Let's talk about your early YouTube days. Sure. Because you were a part of O2L. Absolutely. Which... Give them hell. Can you explain what O2L was? No. But...

Nope, I can't. We were a boy band without the music. That was kind of like a thing that a lot of channels were doing at the time, right? Where every, there was like a person for every day of the week. Is that how you guys did it? Yeah, the collab channel, like era of YouTube. I hate that word. I don't know why it's been bothering me lately that everyone says era. It's like, it's gotten to the point where it's so overused. I'm like, bleh, era. Yeah.

But the collab channel portion of YouTube was like really popular at that time. There was a lot of people just like in different parts of the country that were making friends on Twitter and then making a collab channel and then growing channels and blah, blah, blah. And somehow I think it was after maybe our first VidCon, all of us went, we were like all Twitter friends. And then right after that, I think this is when we started it. And this was like when we all went as just guests to VidCon and we hung out, whatever. Yeah.

And then, yeah, and then we all just like made the collab channels, each person one day a week. We all made it based around a theme. We did that for really only like two or three years. It was really quite a short period of time. But we went and at one point every video was getting a million views every day, which is just wild in hindsight. It's so crazy. I can't believe it was only two or three years because I feel like...

that brand and that like name really follows all of you, I would say. Like when I think of any of you, I do think of O2L. Definitely. But I was also like really consuming YouTube content at that time too. So I'm sure there's also a lot of people who see you now and are like, O2L, what? Yeah. But for anyone who is like consuming YouTube, like...

I was then. I feel like it was such a thing. It's very, yeah. I mean, I always think about it as like, it's like, it was like a, what Disney channel is to a lot of people in that there's just this sticking power of a really transformative period, whether it's like you're 13 or you're 17 or what have you, where just that moment is so fresh in your memory. And so like pivotal, everything was really heightened emotionally at that time that I think like,

that discovery felt so intimate and people I love when people come up to me nowadays with that with memories about that because it's this like it almost like people were like 26 and they like become teenagers in front of me they become like kind of giddy yeah like oh my god I used to love you when I was a kid and I was like that's so sweet it's really it's really sweet yeah it is so true it's funny to think I feel like I I feel like I've talked about this before but I have like a similar experience where I have people

people will come up to me and they'll be like i used to watch you on youtube and i'm like first of all drag me literally every time i've kind of like well i'm still on there just so you know you should subscribe yeah so you could watch you could like i mean it's funny i think that's a big part of the podcast and why i did it too because it does feel kind of like a grown-up version of what i was doing before and like yeah like my audience has gotten older and i feel like

that older generation of people are consuming podcasts and also obviously the content of the podcast is much more grown up than my youtube videos were a little fisting is it for 16 year olds exactly yeah i like never talked about sex honestly or very very barely at all me either yeah i was gonna say what about you not really you're like tell me about your sex life what about sex with you i did i watched the only sex i have is fistings yeah

I keep it real PG. Yeah, very PG. No, no, I don't either. I think it's, yeah, I don't know. It's less of, there probably is some sort of internalized like Midwestern sensibility that keeps me from wanting to talk about it publicly or that keeps me more like timid about it.

But it is funny because, of course, like as soon as a camera is off. Yeah, you're not like a prude boy. No, it's like all my friends are just like, like come and jerking off. It's like what everyone's saying all the time. And it's like we're just children. Yeah. Like we're all just being ridiculous and silly. But online. On camera. On camera. I know on camera you're a good, good boy. I am a good boy off camera, too.

Sometimes. No, you are. You're a sweet, sweet man. I don't have a really sharp bite. But I also think there's something to say like

It's weirder if you are making a video alone to be like, and when I have sex, I do it like this versus when you're on a podcast or you're being prompted by someone. It's much easier to open up about it because obviously we talk about sex. Yeah. When you're on your own and most of the YouTube videos you make, you're all by yourself. I feel like totally it's way harder to.

those kind of conversations alone. Yeah. It's why I think like the call me daddy format does really well. Call her daddy. Call me. Call me daddy. Call her daddy. Yeah. Call me daddy. Please don't. It makes me so uncomfortable when people are saying to people like age you or like not as in like big to that where like all of a sudden recently it's like he's 31. We should just start calling him daddy. Like I'm I am not your father. Yeah.

I feel like I get it sometimes, but less than other people. I see a lot, maybe because I'm not that maternal vibe, I don't get as much of the mommy. I see other people who are younger than me get that. Everyone's calling Renee Rap mommy all the time and mother and stuff. And she's...

24. Yeah. I think it's like, it'd be more if someone like jokingly was like father or something, but it's just like, if I post any photos on Instagram, it's like being like, daddy, dad. And I'm like, but is that daddy? Cause that's not actually, it'd be like calling me like,

a bear i'm like i'm not a bear i'm not a daddy i don't you're still kind of giving twink thank you so much for that as a 31 year old that is like oh my heart sings if you here pull out your phone no one knows this about me if you google twink i pop up do you no one knows that about me i've never mentioned it before you're almost a twunk though now just the compliments yeah because you're sporty you're a sporty twink

He's running. This boy is running. I do from myself. You run so much, though. It's actually kind of crazy. I like extreme athletics. Doing marathons and ultramarathons is so fun to me. I know people think it's crazy, but I find it really enjoyable. I cannot relate at all. I don't even know how we can have a conversation about it on the podcast because I'm trying to even work out once a week.

a month right now. Which is wild because you're so fit. Oh my god, no. It's a mirage. I need to... It's a mirage. It's a mirage. These bones. It's not true. I need to work out. Okay. Wait. What was I saying? Yeah. I was like, we haven't like... I was even going to go back to the all-out dating profiles question. Oh my god, yeah. Let's go anywhere. Well, yeah. Okay, I know. This is the...

notorious thing about me you should put this in the front is I'm extremely vague and I need to be directed with a question otherwise I will continue I'm like I'm like media trained you

You really are. I'm really, and it's less of a desire to hide something. It's more just, I think, how I've operated for so long. It's hard to tell the truth. That's fair. No, the dating profiles thing I was going to say, I have, and maybe you've had this too, but I've had experiences where my dating profile has gone viral on the internet. No way. Or like people have tweeted it publicly. And that, luckily that happened more recently. I think if it happened when I was younger, I would have been

permanently scarred and insecure yeah that makes sense because it just becomes all of a sudden this like people like to think dating profiles are public and they're not they're public to a certain to wherever yeah wherever you're around yeah i even see like tiktoks of people like critiquing i know it's it makes me feel sad i don't like i don't even if someone's being an asshole the idea of then making their profile public feels so intrusive um and

it just feels like such an invasion of privacy. So yeah, when I've had that happen and that just like further confirms where I'm just like, you don't know. Because the people that tweet it are clearly the people that saw me on it. And they always say like, I swiped right. And I was just like,

Yeah. Who are you? You could be anyone. Well, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, imagine if that was someone I went on a date with or was talking to. It's so... Which profile is it? Your Tinder profile? I've had it go viral on multiple platforms. Oh, okay. Okay. I've only ever...

i can't say that because i'm doing i hate that i'm saying go viral it just was like a popular tweet that someone no i mean someone screenshotted and someone was just i don't know made some comments and then it gets a lot of traction yeah and also you're being critiqued for something that is like kind of vulnerable because you are looking for love too you're not on there for a hookup you're like i want to fall in love i want to i am at my core i just want to fall in love a lover boy oh absolutely i am sadly that is really who i am at

I try like when I've been single and things like this I like go through I'm like yeah I'm gonna be a bad boy now I'm totally gonna be just like a slut I'm definitely gonna be it and I'll try it and I'll try it and I'll go like be a slut for a little bit I'm like what about love I cannot take you seriously saying

I'm a whore. Let me be a whore. I can't even take that seriously. It's so sweet. I'm a heathen. I'm a slut. I suck dick and cock. No, I can't. And you did it at my birthday dinner. I cannot take you seriously. Why? I don't know because you're so cute to me. Also because you're a boy probably. Yeah, I was just going to say it's that on the two. It doesn't help.

But no, I'm the same way. Take me serious. I take you serious. I fuck Shannon. I believe you. I believe you. I do actually. I'm like, no, no, I believe you. I actually do believe you. But I do also believe that you're a lover boy the same way.

I feel like I'm the same way. But I feel like you've had longer periods of singleness than I have because you were single for like a good chunk of time, right? Yeah, I go through waves where I think it is because it takes me a while to feel vulnerable enough to get on a dating app, which is usually where I've met. I haven't met everyone I've dated through dating apps, but mainly. And when I get on there, then it's just like, okay, you're beginning the process. You're beginning this journey of

of in my case, like trying to find someone to be in a relationship with. I'm not really trying to like fuck around, um,

And it's just, it's kind of exhausting before it begins. And then if I get lucky enough to get in a relationship, usually I get so invested in it that if it ends, I'm like devastated for a long time. Even if I'm the one ending it. Yeah. Which has been at least 50% of the cases. I was going to say, like, do you feel like you dump more or get dumped more? It's a pretty even split, I would say. It's, I might dump a little bit more, but it's a pretty even split.

Does the internet know you've had any boyfriend? Like, have you ever confirmed any relationship ever to the internet? I vaguely confirmed the longest one I've had to the internet, but not really. I mean, like when I'm dating people, it probably is pretty obvious. I probably got that like, what is it? That sex glow or whatever. What is that? What's the phrase? That dick down glow. Yeah.

No, I probably just like I'm an extra happy and content online. So it's probably it might be obvious. But no, I mean, I've never, never zero have ever, you know, launched hard launch, soft launch any of that stuff with boyfriends. Have you ever like, is there even a kissing picture of you anywhere on the internet? Not that I don't think so that you posted or like approved posting? No, I definitely have been photographed kissing boys before. But um,

But I, yeah, that was more like even like early, early Tumblr days where like, but no, I've never, it's never been my thing. And I think because it's not been my thing for so long, it also would feel weird to suddenly change that. Well, I'm sure it's also built up now as an even scarier thing since you've never done it. It's like.

when you do it, will people be so invested in that relationship now? I hate the idea of that so much. So yeah, no, it's never going to happen. Maybe once I'm married and like, I was going to say I have kids, but I don't even know if I want kids. So, you know, maybe once I'm married that I'll just all of a sudden post a wedding photo. Really? So yeah, that's like a huge reason why I wanted to have you on the podcast too, because we've had such different experiences with sharing relationships. You've dated people publicly? Publicly.

Believe it or not. Have you had sex with them in this bed? Actually, I got a new mattress, by the way. I did see that. That was great. This is a new one, so nope. There's been no sex in this bed since you got this mattress. I don't know about that, but nothing public from that perspective. Okay. But yeah, I feel like, okay. Has there been sex in that chair? No. Damn. Actually, no. Okay.

But I'll take that into consideration. What objects have been inserted? Nothing. This room is clean. But...

I feel like I wonder... I also came... Like, started the internet kind of almost in a relationship. I didn't. Like, I had... I was on my own at first on my YouTube channel, but not that much. And then I didn't have a huge following. And I started posting with, like, my first relationship. So I don't know if that also took some of that fear away. Because I... It was, like, just... It's, like, already happened to me. You know what I mean? Versus... Did you have a coming out video? I had a coming out video, but...

I was already out. Like all my videos before that were just unlisted on YouTube. Okay. So I was like posting videos as a lesbian, but they were private or unlisted and I was only posting them on Tumblr. Okay. But then I posted like my coming out story video and I shared that with my like friends and family. Okay. So the Texas people. But you had a coming out video.

Yeah, my like gay process, it's probably it's probably not dissimilar from most people aside from like the coming out video. But yeah, I mean, I honestly didn't accept that I was gay until I was like 20, 21. Yeah. And when I mean accept, I mean, like it happened in like the same moment of

Like realizing, accepting, coming out all within the same breath. Wow. It was like a, I had never like regret, regretfully so as a high schooler kissed like boys as a college student, kiss boys, nothing. It was all like when I moved to LA, it just happened. It's like you like let the deny, like you stopped being in denial. Imagine. I'm just so mad that I was like, I was at an all boys university in college and I didn't have sex with anyone. Yeah.

No, literally, how did you avoid it? Also, did people think you were gay?

The people do not believe me on this. Nobody thought I was gay. When I came out, everyone I knew was shocked. And I think that more goes, it's less about like some weird stereotype about what people think gay people look like. And it's more that just like people in the Midwest don't know many gay people. So they, it's not that they didn't even think that I wasn't gay. They're not thinking about if anyone's gay at all. Unless you were like extremely flamboyant, which you're even still not super flamboyant.

I don't know what I was going to say to that, but I was like, uh, uh, yes, I am. Yes, queen. I am girly pop. No, but yeah, I mean, you, you obviously have gotten queer, like queer. It's more obvious now. Yeah. I don't know why it feels like a dick. Yeah. No, I'm like, it's a compliment. We love gay people on this podcast. I know. I know. I know. I thought I just, that's, but that's like internalized thinking still coming back of just being. Yeah. But,

Yeah, no, that process was like so long for me. And, you know, so the classic, like so many sleepless nights, very much knowing, but very much being afraid to accept it. Going through the process of like looking in the bathroom mirror and being like, you are gay. And like being like, oh, like seeing a ghost or something. No, the bathroom mirror is a very real, real experience. And I remember one of my first videos, even on YouTube, I encouraged people. I'm like,

look yourself in the mirror and say it and it's the scariest experience ever but at the same time I'm like until you can say it to yourself how are you going to say it to anyone else yeah no it's true and it takes time to even saying I remember trying to say it to myself many times before I finally actually did so hard and then you're like break down crying and you're like god damn it mmhmm

Which is crazy. But now all these kids in a great way, like all these younger people are like, okay, drama. It's not that big of a deal. I'm like, fuck, that's awesome. I'm so jealous. It is, but I will say it's like, it's still like the internet still is a microcosm. There's still like this, like, it's like, you know, the, how like everyone thinks like Twitter is the peak of political opinion, but it's really, I forget how, what it is, but it's only like,

it's like 1% of America is on Twitter. It's some like tiny percentage. So it feels very loud. And I think TikTok can feel that way as well, where it feels incredibly like, oh, the world, like everyone's coming out at such a young age. But then like recently I was at, I was like on vacation and some girl, like legitimately I was swimming in the water and we were just like gabbing and she was from Texas. And at one point she went,

Are you gay? And I was like, yes, queen. I leaned in and I was like, yes, girl. And she's like,

And she was shocked. That's so crazy. I was like, that's crazy because she was also 20 years old. Yeah, it is crazy. I know. It is obviously. And also we are privileged because we live in California. So I also am having conversations with people here who are like, oh, yeah, like everyone's a little bi and everyone's like down to. And I'm like, yeah. And then you have to be like, no, no, that's not the experience everywhere. Also, I'm from Texas. So I know when I go home, I'm like.

It's obvious that we're not all there, but it is, there's obviously so much more representation than when we were going through it. It's all, yeah, there's a lot of, it's at an interesting like pivotal point. Cause yeah, even like the other day, like I've become like the gay guru too, as I'm sure you are. As like, you're just like the voice of the lesbians all bow down. Go lesbians. The face of the lesbian and gay community right here coming at you folks. No.

No, we're definitely not. But we're talking to the gays. Absolutely. Yes. I would be honored to be representation. Yeah. But I do have like a lot of my Midwestern friends, a lot of my parents, my friends even in LA that come to me with like really hyper specific questions of being like, what does this mean? What does the IA plus mean? I have friends being like, what is this thing? Or like, it feels like most girls are bi and then we'll like have like a weird discussion about it that I'm like,

frankly i'm glad that you're asking me and not just like accepting whatever it is you think it is as fact or totally ignorant until like the girl by question i was like that's an interesting point because i would bet there is a more a larger number of women who identify as bi publicly but it's because of the internalized shame of a male identifying as bi and it doesn't mean there are more necessarily but it's more of like the stigma associated with it

and i was like but i was like but i haven't thought about that until you even asked me that question so this is now an interesting thought exercise that we should look into yeah i mean it's also because women are sexualized in general exactly yeah so of course we would want to sleep with men and women and anyone because women are like sexual objects that's all that they are just a whole yeah yes just a whole same just a reproduction factory

Yep, literally. Just a hole, just a fist. It is the bi-stigma thing. It's wild. I think we talked, me and Chris talked about that too because he identifies more with that label than...

gay yeah um but yeah and and there's so much internalized homophobia around bi men and people just not believing them which is its own problem but since neither of us are bi we don't really have to get that well do you know what that like that i haven't worked through so like forgive me if i'm like this is like not correct necessarily but it's this element of when people don't believe where like specifically men don't believe other men are bi it's this element of being like well like

Why would you want to be that? It's like they're so deep within the depths of misogyny and the patriarchy that they think, why would you choose? If you choose both, why wouldn't you just choose the other one because it keeps you up here? And they don't even realize that they're thinking that. It's like, well, why would you do that? You should just choose the other one because it keeps you up here. So it's this weird...

grip that society still that's on society still of that like being queer makes you less powerful in like a less powerful position totally and same with bi women like a lot of lesbians being biphobic towards bi women because they're like obviously you're gonna end up with a man at the end of the day because

your life will be easier or you'll be able to have kids or whatever. I don't know. It's such a weird blanket statement where it's just like... It's so crazy to me because I've said it a million times on this podcast, but I'm like, women are awesome. It seems to me like if you could choose, wouldn't we all just choose women? I know it's not right, but... Well, so I would go even further to say if I could choose to be a lesbian specifically, so I guess I would be...

I would be a trans lesbian. And if I could choose to be so, I really do in my soul believe that that is what I am. Yeah. If sexuality was a choice, I think we'd all be choosing to be lesbians. Yes, I do. But unfortunately, it's not. Yes. Are the majority of your followers women or girls? I'm assuming they were when you were a kid.

When you were in the O2L days. O2L days, it was probably like a swift 90-10 or so. And now it's moved to more of like a 60-40. Okay. So it's always converging or merging into like a 50-50. Cool.

Yeah. And it kind of, yeah, it's weird because I still associate it with it just being like awesome, sweet women. And sometimes men will come to me. I'm like, ah, what are you doing here? Yeah. I was like, ah, are you hitting on me? Get away from me. Did that scare you when you were coming out that like, was there any fear when you were coming out that you would lose followers because a lot of your followers were kind of maybe like interested in dating you vibe?

No, I think no. I never thought about it that way personally. And I yeah, no. I don't know why. I feel like it should have been a thought. And maybe going back to how we're both not super business savvy, maybe like maybe maybe like it should have been a thought. But I cannot think of a moment where I hesitated for that reason, maybe hesitating for something.

maybe it wasn't the right time to share that but never because of thinking of like losing a following yeah that's good yeah yeah i don't yeah and i don't know if that was blind trust in my audience or just like truly not giving a fuck i don't know the funny thing about that video oh no screen of us smiling okay it's possible that we lost video for a minute but i feel like i've been looking up there and it was there so it's hard yeah i can't see from over here it was gone

I'm so sorry, and I don't know why it happened. We really apologize you didn't get to see this beautiful face. Yeah, for five seconds. I was pointing at you. Oh, no.

You do have the prettiest face. Can I say that? That's so nice. Every time you post a video or photo, I'm like, it looks like you're airbrushed and people will not believe that seeing you in person. I'm just like, stop it. No, genuinely, Shannon, like I see you in person. I'm like, goddess. That's so good. Both of us terrible at taking compliments. Yes. Thank you, Connor. Unbelievable. Thank you so much. It's very pretty. Tickle.

to go back to what we were saying about how queer, like we think there's so much more queer representation and like queer people and queer conversation happening. Yeah. It's so many people like in Texas or Oklahoma or wherever they are, like aren't having these conversations. So to have two people and like feel like you're sitting there with them, I think is more important than it being like really, really interesting the whole time. Yeah. Plus I feel like the, another amazing thing is I think every guest I've had has been interesting. So, yeah. And like, you know,

unique yeah and it's like i want to hear all of the story yeah it's the it's the um probably like the internalized insecurity of like oh some of this has been said before like aren't people gonna get sick of me saying this before whatever i need to find something that i haven't said before what have you 100 let's talk about the time my parents found out that i looked up gay pornography on the computer totally you do feel i i feel like with youtube too like as our background

We went through the period of YouTube where it was so like clickbaity. I mean, we've been through every period of YouTube if you think about it. Oh, yeah. No, truly. All the eras. All the eras. It's the eras tour. It's the eras tour. Yeah, let's start a podcast with the eras of YouTube or something. But we really were like there for that too. And it's like...

It's crazy. I think it's crazy watching what people are actually interested in now versus five years ago versus five years before that versus whatever. It's like everything has changed and I don't think everything needs to be like so sensationalized and amazing. And I don't feel like every episode I need to like, I think there was a part of me that thought every episode I was going to need to

expose some bit of tea or something have like the big moment yeah yeah yeah and I'm like I don't need to and honestly it happens without even trying cause if you're just talking yeah like when I tell you I had sex with Joe Biden it'll be a big moment exactly exactly okay well speaking I can't I'm like what else do you want to say so stupid okay speaking I'll name them all I'll tell them all please somebody's finally asked me I'm like I wish you would name one of them

T. Okay. Want to talk about running into him? Oh my God. Yeah. Twice? Yes. Okay. But before we do that. Yeah. On the topic of being interesting. Yeah. Would you consider yourself boring? I don't even know why that took a moment for me to even know. That's how like irrelevant that conversation is. Because I was like, what are you talking about? Why would you say that to me? I think it's such a subjective word that I think it's even funny to like,

I don't know. I think that whole situation was so funny because it could come across that I was bothered by it or it could come across that I was unbothered. And I'm just somewhere so in the middle about like,

It's not the words. It's more of like the repeated punching at someone. And it's like a mosquito flying around you that at some point you're going to get so annoyed at you're going to snap it. And I'm like, just like, why? Why would you pick on someone who isn't fighting back for years and then not expect them to bite back one time? Yeah. Also someone who you're not even having conversations with. Like you're not in conversation. You're not in each other's lives.

lives at all. I have zero memory of meeting the man. It's crazy. Zero memory of that. I'm like, do I give context to this? Maybe I'll just put the TikTok in right here. So if you know, you know. And if you don't,

Now you know. Yeah. Well, I found the broader conversation that I had behind the scenes with other YouTubers more about, you know, some people were more discussing like the vagueness of like gay on gay, cattiness or crime or what have you. Gay on gay crime. Gay on gay crime. And yeah, that was more, I found that to be more of an interesting discussion of, you know, where does that come from? Because it does feel like

it's a little bit more of like in the queer community sometimes there's this infighting that we can do or like specifically gay men can kind of be like nasty towards each other and i don't know if that i don't know where that comes from because like it could come from the the history of you know reading and shade comes from drag queens and comes from like black people and black women and black trans women and like they invented reading and shade so i don't know if it's like

white gays mimicking what they think it means to be gay or something where it's like to be gay it means you have to read someone yeah you have to be like sassy and call people out and be honest it's like you're not being honest that was the first that was the thing that like completely made me make that video is I'm like

What does that mean, you have to be honest or upholding honesty? And at what point is honesty just being cruel? I mean, yeah. Or unnecessary. It was completely unnecessary. Yeah. Completely. Yeah, I don't know.

It's also like truly doesn't... I mean, yeah. Obviously, it doesn't matter, but I think we would be wrong not to bring it up just because obviously everyone... I think, and I said this to you earlier, but I think everyone was so excited for you to stick up for yourself. I genuinely think people were like, fuck yes, Connor. Like, say something. Even it seemed like he even was like, okay, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, shit. Everyone was like, I feel like people think of you as someone who is polite and unproblematic and a good, nice boy. And it's like you are you can be all those things and you can also stick up for yourself. And you can also like you actually are doing something that is honest by being like, hey.

I'm a person. Like, I'm a person and I can see it. And, like, don't forget that I'm real, you know? Yeah, and I think that that's a greater takeaway from a situation like that is also to...

everyone viewing it is this you know people even though you may not assume people have seen your comments or your comments online to strangers feel like they go into a void it's a person on the other side every time totally you know if it's a comment on the tiktok this is made like it can be received and therefore you should post it as if it will so whatever you post you should be prepared for the person to read and are you okay with either hurting that person's feelings or whatever the intended

messages behind it because there's just so much like noise online and I get that you know maybe it's this like insecurity of wanting to be seen and that that's where that comes from but just realize that like it's human beings talking to other human beings and I don't know I don't know why and it's also one thing to be a troll online like commenting because I think some of those people do do comment those posts with the intention that you see it they're hurt people and they want to hurt you yeah so it's I think it makes it even more just like

embarrassing to see someone who holds any kind of like following like you're you know you know what it's like to be talked about online yeah if you're creating content so it's like you have you know the responsibility that you hold and you did it anyway and I'm just so stoked that it blew back up in his face because

If you came out the winner of that by far and away. Thank you. Thank you. And also, you also came off so not boring. You were like, oh, I'm boring. It was ironic. I was on vacation in Hawaii, driving around in a Jeep going to beaches. And I'm just like,

I'm like really like there's a times you probably could call me boring really bad time to call me boring I'm on top of the world I was like making poke and like in the in the jungle the rainforest I felt like Bretman Rock like it was living my fantasy I'm like ooh real bad time yeah I look

It's the best I've looked. I was like, I look good right now. I was like, I'm going to post anything right now. Just feeling good. Yeah. Well, I'm so proud of you. Oh, thanks. Yeah. It's deeply overwhelming. Yeah. And underwhelming at the same time.

No, but I think you crushed it. And I loved watching everyone's take on it. Chris Clemons take also amazing. Maybe I'll put that in here too. Oh yeah. Chris texted me just because it's okay that I posted this. I'm like, I'm not going to police anyone's content. Do your thing. Everyone can post whatever they want. But yeah, that was wild. Yeah. It's been weirdly nice to reconnect with people over it, which is going to sound hilarious, but...

The amount of like random people that I used to know that texted me over a moment like that. I was like, what an unexpected moment out of a viral video is that I'm suddenly getting coffees with YouTubers that I haven't seen in years. He really did you a favor. I like have to thank you. It was kind of a great moment. I like kind of, it was kind of great.

Thanks so much. I know. Well, okay. I wonder if we could traverse this conversation in a way because I think there's a good segue here, which is both of us have experienced being talked about online in different ways and not just online. Okay. In art, potentially. Of course. And talking about people in art. Yes. And both of us, I think,

tried not to talk about, like tried not to stick up for ourselves or tell our story. I clearly have changed that. And now I'm doing this podcast and a big part of that was because I wanted to have my voice back and to talk about those things. But I feel like you have taken a different route, which is just to never,

ever talk about it yeah yeah how does that feel do you feel like this was a good way to bring this up first of all wonderful way of navigating those like it was like the floor is lava and you're jumping around on like pillows being like um um it's tough i don't know i think that like um i was oh god it's it's really tough it's one of those things that like

It was really tough for me to stand up for myself because also I didn't know if there was something to stand up about. I think the hard part was having things consumed by other people that are written from a perspective from someone else's

The hard part is, is then they assume that that is the story. Yeah, it's the truth. Yeah, the truth or what have you. And then to have that kind of like forced onto you and then you being like, but I don't also want to fight back to this because I'm sad. And I also don't really want to like tell the story and all this. So it's a difficult thing to navigate. And I think I navigated it through.

Personal exploration, silence, which again, I don't know if any of this is correct, but that's how I did do it. And just like finding my own way through it. I'd say the hardest part again, though, is like having the public know your business without your permission or without your consent and then have them understand

in my case uh subtly turn on you as well and have it be quite negative and then did you feel that way that it i had to change my phone number at one point because i got voice i got voice notes telling me like oh like much of a loser and how shit i was wow yeah i got i got my phone number got leaked and then i got voicemails like that and i got texts like that

And yeah, and to like have said nothing about it was just devastating to me. And then also to have like lost friends during it too. It's just like, it's a really hard time, especially as someone who is young, fresh to LA, freshly out and just deeply difficult. Yeah.

Would you say that was your first heartbreak? Oh, definitely. Definitely my first heartbreak. Yeah. So that's brutal. There's so many layers to it. And to be at peak popularity as well. Yeah, that's horrible. It's tough, yeah. It is really hard, I think, navigating anything publicly. Like what...

what to say and what not to say. I just want to be at the, at the end of the day, I just want to be respectful towards myself as well as to the other person involved. And it's, the more you think about it, the more you think like, it's just, it's like a lose, lose. It's like a never win or like it's, it's just really hard to do so fairly and correctly and with dignity. And it's just, it's so not,

messy to navigate. It's so messy. I mean, I don't think I've done everything right at all, but I do think doing the podcast episode with my ex, the two parts of it,

felt like the most like the best way for me to like actually have closure in that situation because I think if you're if it was me talking by myself or her talking by herself there's always like some gray and a lot of like filling in on the blanks of like what actually happened versus sitting down and talking but that's also crazy by the way yes it's not like it's well it's not crazy it's more of just like it's definitely it's a choice and like

I wouldn't say it's less valid than my choice of not doing so. I think they're both like...

Especially like in your case, it's like consensual. It's like you both sat down and said, we are going to do this. And I'm like, honestly, great. Because you both decided that. You're both grown adult women. Yeah. I think more than crazy, it's just unique. It was a unique... It's unique to have a podcast to do it. It's unique to be two public people. It's unique for both of us to agree to do it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, completely. Everything about it is...

very unique but I do think I think for me it was really therapeutic and good because I really truly I truly felt like that was gonna follow me around forever if I didn't actually sit down and get to talk about it yeah completely but I think there's like two different approaches too because

My therapist always says, "If you want to stop something, you have to starve it." You can starve out a conversation, but the problem is the internet knows no starvation. -Nobody knows what it's like to be shopping in Target and hear a song about you playing above you.

Not many people know that experience. Nobody knows what it's like to be sitting on a bench in Silver Lake and the people to your right are talking about going to a concert. It's bizarre. And then you're just being like, it's everywhere. I'm going to kill myself. All that's a very unique, difficult thing to explain to anybody. And I will say...

I don't know if I navigated everything the right way, but I will say the point that I'm at now, having navigated it the way I did, I am extremely grateful for because I think that I stand on my own two feet really strong and really tall. And that took a lot of work. That took a lot of therapy. That took a lot of like internal discovery, like,

And I'm really proud that I did that. But oh my God, was it far from easy. It was incredibly difficult and incredibly unrelatable to truly everyone, including my therapist, who did not understand anything. Truly. Meeting up with you whenever we did, when was that? A long time ago. And we got dinner. That was so validating to me because it was one of the first times I'd

I was like, oh my God, you get it. Because who else gets that? It's such a unique little weird thing. And yeah, the therapist of it all, they're like...

Just don't go online. I'm like, okay, should I also not get an Uber? No. What do I do? You don't understand. Yeah. What do I do? Yeah. No, it's difficult. And also like to your point, like it helps to have those conversations with your ex too. Like I've, yeah, for pretty much the most part, anyone I've dated at some point or another, I've met up and reconciled with them, including the ex in question. And I don't hate anybody. I think I can confidently say I do not have any sort of like beef relationship

with really anyone that I actually know. That's amazing. And I feel pretty good about all that. I wouldn't be nervous to run into anybody in public. I think I'd be totally fine. That's a great feeling. So you guys have talked and you

You've also, but you didn't talk for a long time, right? Oh no, we talked for a long time. We had, uh. No, like it was like a while after, in between. Oh, years and years and years and years. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Years and years and years. Yeah. And it's probably for the best because I feel like when we talked about this before, not on the podcast. Yeah. I feel like you were in a really good place by the time you actually did talk versus. Oh yeah. If it had been fresh, you probably would have been way more rocked by that. I was so confident. I was like, I was so like.

just like, I don't know. I like, it didn't phase me. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. It was great. It was like, didn't you two run into each other at like a Taylor Swift concert or something? Yeah.

ours is the bodies bodies bodies premiere no way oh my god okay yeah i'd love to run into someone at a huge public setting that's the best way to do it yeah yeah well i'm glad that you feel good about all that now also it's you also have a unique experience because you are a writer did you write anything well so that's why i almost say like you know pot calling the kettle black because i'm like i'm like i wrote i wrote i write about everything and you know it's not uh

I gotta say the word. It's not like in me to police someone else's art. Although I think there's like,

you know, maybe a respectful way to do it. I also am like, when we were kids, like kids do things, they don't think about things all the way through. And yeah, I mean, my second book has like plenty of things that were talked about in it that had no permission from the person. And I'm honestly afraid a little bit to read them, but I haven't really read it since it's been published, but I was like, what's in there. So yeah, it's like, you know, at a certain point you just, I don't know. It's part of the game. I mean,

Yeah, it is art, but it's nice that you had an outlet that is truly also respected as art. Because I feel there's something interesting about what

I'm doing as a content creator when I'm not, I mean, I make art when I make music videos or if I make like a short film or whatever, that's art. But most of the content I'm creating is literally like first person me talking. So it's, there's something so different and like,

There's something different about writing a song where an artist can be like, you know, there are other writers in the room and there's like, there's like liberties taken and it's not... It was like inspired by you, but it like wasn't... It's not literal. Yeah. You know what I mean? You can say that. If I sit down and I say...

This happened. Like there's no artistic liberty. She killed my dog. Like she killed my dog. It like just becomes like gossip, you know, or that's how it feels. It doesn't feel like an expression of myself. It feels like a, just like a confession versus something artistic intertwined with it. So I'm, I'm happy you got to like write that book and like have that outlet. So you got to have like a little control.

Totally. Yeah. It definitely was a, it was a form of therapy as well as, uh, yeah, a good like creative outlet. Um, and there's plenty of things that were cut from that that were probably like a little bit too like direct and obvious. I'm still like everything I write about is still like vague enough. It's more about the experience than the person. Um, classic me, like never like fully like leaning in, but slightly leaning in. Um,

Yeah. I'm like really grateful for that, for all the writing that I've done. Do you feel that dating someone after dating like people that are public people or whatever, do you think that that's created an aversion to you to wanting to date people who are more private people? Oh,

I don't know. Is that more attractive to you now? I don't know. Yes and no. I don't think it's necessarily like something I'm not really like not looking to date someone famous and to not looking to date someone who isn't famous. I feel like there's like an element of it that is so I just I almost don't have an opinion. There's of course like

an element of anyone who's in our industry feels like they'll get you more, which feels appealing. But then I've also dated people in our industry and I'm like... And you get them less. Yeah, you get them less or there's just like... It's just not like... You know, chemistry is chemistry. I think it goes beyond job. It goes beyond like understanding of someone's realm that they're in. It's more of the desire to understand. So, yeah. I mean like...

I've dated plenty of people who have literally nothing to do with social media and it's both a breath of fresh air and it makes them no lesser, no more. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It's, yeah, it's like, it's almost like not a thought. Totally. I definitely have tried both and like had, had that perspective of being like the only person that will understand me as someone who's an actor. And then you try it and you're like, didn't work at all. Actually kind of hate them. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can't, I can imagine. They're hot.

I feel like with the podcast too, for me, it's so much sharing that I think it would be really hard maybe to date someone who's like...

an accountant, you know, where they're like, are you going to really share everything? But also, I don't even think that's true because I'm not sharing. I'm really trying my best not to share like intimate. I don't want to tell like any sexual story or like talk about anything and people be able to be like, and that's about this person. Totally. If I can help it, I would like to keep things more general. Like, but I also, I really want to talk about sex, especially like,

lesbian sex or like girl yeah because yeah there's no so few like definitely outlets talking about it and also just in a way that makes it less intimidating because completely I think there's so much I think sex in general is like really intimidating and oh yeah and if like yeah I don't know like it's a societal thing though too I think it's again it's like part of it's intimidating purely just because no one else so it's it's really like important that you are also just like normalizing like I

I used to cringe if I heard the word strap-on. I'd be like, oh my god. And the word lesbian. Oh yeah, absolutely. Now I'm like, lesbian this, strap-on this. She's got about eight strap-ons over there. They're hung on the wall. Is that one 16 inches long?

The fact that that's literally where they are over there. I'm like, what do you know? You're like, what do you see? What did you do when I went out of the other room? I've been spelunking. What were you looking at? Just searching, just curious. Okay, on the topic of sex. Yes. I have had it. The rumors are true. Slut. Yes. He's a slut. Thank you. Finally, in my slut era. Do you feel... How do you feel like you learned about gay sex? Porn. Porn.

really um or like because i feel like i know very little about gay sex because i'm not having any of it but i do feel like the conversations i've had with my gay friends or by guy friends is like there's so much like prep work and things that like they didn't know about and they had to ask and like have kind of awkward conversations or yeah there's a lot of that you like yeah a lot of googling a lot of like

Yeah, I guess like friend conversations maybe. But like I think in the beginning stages, the friend conversations aren't happening. It's a lot of Googling. It's a lot of like...

trial and error just figure it out it's like I know that I need I know that someone needs a douche I know that someone needs lube I know that all of us need lube everyone needs lube so much lube but yeah it's a lot of like this is what I think needs to be done we'll keep trying it till it works but who also knows if what I'm doing is what everyone else is doing yeah totally yeah but no yeah I think a lot of it is like yeah classic you just search the internet for it and what were people doing without Google oh

I don't know, probably pain. Hurting each other. Yeah, pain probably. Literally a lot of pain. Debauchery. Yeah, I feel like the same thing with lesbian sex. It was a lot of trial and error. Yeah, and I think, yeah, I think I've always found that like I'm always gracious, like even as an adult, like you're gracious to your partner. So like why wouldn't someone be gracious to you? I think if you're willing to, at least in my case, like if I'm willing to like have sex with somebody, like there is almost nothing you can do during the sex that is going to be like,

awkward or a turnoff in terms of like if something goes wrong or what have you i'm like it's like it's fine we're already committing if you're already there yeah it's like we are committing to this we are committing this we all we both know what's happening yeah so true so true um so communication is key yeah it's key but yeah you're right there's not a lot of resources on it there's a lot of like heteronormative sex resources i always think back to in school of course you're just learning about like

you know, penis to vaginal intercourse. Totally. Condoms this. Condoms this. You know, sex once, have a child. Yeah.

I mean, honestly, barely even. Yeah, I think I we learned abstinence. Oh, probably. Oh, probably. Yeah. I don't feel like we learned abstinence and we learned about STIs, you know, just like really graphic photos of fear of God was striked into you of like, if you have sex too much, this will happen. This will happen. You will get pregnant or you will have like cauliflower. But yes, exactly. The hell is that?

Do you remember that? I'm like, what the hell's going on? Oh, yeah. They show you those graphic images. Yeah. Thank God I don't want to have sex with anyone anyway. I know. And even in like hetero relationships, I'm like, this isn't helpful to anyone. This is helpful to literally anybody. This doesn't actually show you what's going on. No. Or in terms of like men having no idea how a vagina works. They're like, it's like this clearly didn't work for anybody. Criminal. If it was...

Yeah. You didn't have sex with any boys in college, but did you ever sleep with girls? Yeah. And yes and no. And like, I never, I'm technically gold star. Yes and no. As in like, I have slept with girls, but I have not had sex with girls. Okay. And I had,

a few girlfriends, so it's even funnier. That just shows the Midwestern, like... Oh, yeah. Sensibility. It's so easy to get away with being a virgin where we're from. Absolutely. It's, like, the best part of it. It's not really. It's just, like, he's just a nice boy. Yeah. He's just a nice boy. I believe in God, and I want to go to heaven. Mm-hmm. But I will say, in...

It's a funny thing. Like that doesn't negate the fact that I didn't want to have sex with girls. I think a lot of people would say like you were gay. You probably didn't want to. Oh my God. No, I wanted to like crazy. Yeah. You're still like horny and going through puberty. Yes. I can imagine that would still be exciting. Yeah. And even now sometimes I'll see videos online and think like. I could do that. Absolutely. Yeah.

Not a question in my mind. And I'll text my straight friends. What the fuck? That's crazy. I was like, but do you think about that with boys? Yeah. No. And they're like, no. But they love to pretend there are two on the Kinsley scale. Okay. But I respect that. What would you say you are? Probably like a five. Okay. Maybe a four and a half on a different day, but.

Fair. But yeah, but not bi. Not bi. I'm not bi. Not bi. No. Would you ever like have a threesome with a girl? Like two guys? Sure. Two boys and a girl? Well, I say sure, but then I also remember that I'm a monogamous person looking for marriage. So...

It probably won't happen. No, but in terms of like... If some perfect random world, you were in a party and you were really into some guy and then you got invited into a threesome, you'd be like, sure. Yes. If all the factors are right, yes, definitely. I think about this as well. And I'm like, I just don't know if I could handle a guy being around.

At all. I just don't know. Your presence is irking me. I just don't think... I mean, I think I would have an easier time with a queer guy, like, especially, like, a gay man being around. I just, like... To be fair, I did always picture if there was a woman involved, the woman would be, like, queer. Yeah. They have to be queer. I can't have a straight person involved in this throuple. I think, for me, the thing is, I think it would be too much of a treat for the guy. Like, I don't want to give any straight guy, like, that...

look into that like I feel like they don't deserve it well and that's also because I don't want to be I don't think I really want to be sexualized by a straight guy no that's incredibly fair but I think there's probably if I was more bi maybe it would be hot or like validating in some way but also I'm the same as you we are very similar like I am also a lover girl and super monogamous so I don't think that that would ever happen and I don't know that yeah I would even want it to but I'd be so nervous no I just like

Yeah, no, I like I don't seek that kind of I don't seek that out. Nor is that like a fantasy of mine or what have you. I'm very like vanilla in that sense where like, I don't know, I feel like some of my straight friends, they're like, like crazy sexual deviants. And I'm just like, huh? I was like, you do what? On a Tuesday? Okay.

With what from the kitchen? Oh my God. Jesus. Wait, you have a lot of straight friends. So many straight friends. Do you hang out with any queer people? Not many in LA. All my queer friends are in New York or London, but no. I mean, yeah, no, not really. I mean like, no, not too many.

not in la necessarily there's like well you need to come here obviously every time we hang out i'm like why aren't we hanging out i know and then we both like go to bora bora or something and then i'll be in europe and you'll be in europe we will be in europe the same time we can hang out in europe together come to london europe is huge hey guys thank you so much for watching or listening wherever you are uh

Follow Connor on all of his platforms. They'll be in the bio below. Do you have anything specific coming out? No, but follow me on my Strava for my runs and follow me on Letterboxd for my movies. That's where I want y'all. I want you at the movies and the runs specifically. Fuck yeah. I'll have it all below. Also follow him on TikTok because he's popping off. Okay, bye.