Lesbian weddings and unaccepting family with Kate & Sarah
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Okay, hi guys. Welcome back to X's and O's. I'm your host Shannon Beveridge. I'm very clearly not in Los Angeles. I am in fact in New York City. I just had my pride party on Thursday. I'm filming this on Monday. Wow. Earlier than usual guys. Earlier than usual. Usually I film my intro like right before on Tuesday nights and the podcast comes out on Wednesday mornings. But I am signing with like a

It's called Studio 71 and now I have to do my episodes early which is gonna be an adjustment for me but definitely for the best so I can be on top of things.

Also, I hope you don't mind that I'm laying comfortably. Pride Month is, it'll take it out of you. It'll, it will take it out of you. But also, I don't want it to end ever, ever. Huge shout out to Marriott Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's with my guests, Kate and Sarah. And we filmed this episode in a Westin in D.C. right before Thanksgiving.

The day before we went to the Pride Parade in DC and we were on the Love Travels by Merritt Bonvoy float, which was so much fun. And if you follow me on TikTok or Instagram, then you would see like a little mini vlog I posted from that day. Speaking of vlogs, I feel like I should film a YouTube video at some point that's not the podcast. But what do you guys think? Also, do you mind if I get comfortable?

It's crazy that this is a video podcast because I know some of you really are just listening. So if you're just listening, I am laying down. I'm so tired.

traveling is so crazy also i've been in new york now for oh my gosh since wednesday last week tuesday last week tuesday last week and i have not switched over my time zone at all i'm still on la time so i'm not sleeping good not sleeping the right hours it's also been hot hot as in new york city if you're in the city then you know i think it's also hot in la

I don't know where y'all are, but I think it might be hot everywhere. Global warming may just be real. I'm kidding. I fully believe in global warming. But anyway, I just wanted to kiki, just wanted to kiki with you guys a little bit today at the beginning of this episode. I asked on Instagram what y'all wanted to hear me talk about and you guys gave me a couple things. So I'm just gonna do a little bit longer intro than I have been doing the last few episodes because I've got time. I've got time for y'all. I'm here. Got things to share.

Also, I think maybe a solo episode is in order soon. Let me know in the comments below if that's of interest to you because I could do that. I'm going to look on Instagram to see what you guys said. I know some of the things that you asked for. First of all, today, literally today, Role Model's new music video came out for his song, Look at That Woman. And my mom is in the music video, you guys, which is so cute. Role

Role model DM me and said that they were looking for like just like women in L.A. And then he was like also randomly if your mom is in town or sister like we'd love to have like family and.

And I was like, that is so weird. My mom is coming in town tomorrow. And so just lined up so perfectly. And my mom obviously was stoked to be in the video. I was stoked to be in the video. I'll put it in the link below. Or maybe if you're watching, I'll put it like a little overlay of just the part of me and my mom here so you can see. But it was so sweet. And I think my mom really enjoyed the experience. I obviously loved it. So fun. So cute. Love to be around cool, iconic women.

Shout out to Tucker, role model, for having me. I appreciate you. My pride party was on Thursday and it's now Monday. So time has passed. I have recovered. It was so much fun. It was so cute to get to meet so many people. I literally got to meet so many people, which was so nice. And I'm

just so obvious that I need to be doing more events that are like live where I can actually talk to y'all and I think even like in a space where I could maybe talk more because it was it was a party it was like a loud party so thank you to anyone who said hi to me thank you to everyone who came it was like I think it was such a success it was so fun so

I mean, I felt like a little bit like I was working the whole time. So it was hard for me to gauge the party, but I was having a blast and I was so glad so many of my friends and family got to come. My sister was there and yeah, it was a good time. So thank you again for anyone who came. And if you really liked it or you want me to do it again, please comment below. Let me know. Cause I think there are opportunities to keep doing that same party or like same vibe again. So if you liked it, let me know. We'll see what happens.

I am so fidgety today. Okay, other questions. Someone asked me what my Myers-Briggs is, which if you don't know, Myers-Briggs is like a personality test and you like do all these questions and it tells you what you are and there's basically like four different categories and each one is a different thing. So if you don't know what it is, you're going to need to go look up what it is. But I am an ENFP, which means that I am...

I'm extroverted, so I'm energized by time with others. I'm intuitive, which means I focus on ideas and concepts. I...

Feeling, the F is for feeling, means I prioritize people and emotions and perceiving means I prefer freedom and flexibility, which is definitely true. And an ENFP is known as, let's see what this one says. I'm reading just from Google, but an ENFP strengths are that they are curious, observant and energetic, enthusiastic, excellent communicators, know how to relax, very popular and friendly. Their weaknesses are,

Poor practical skills, find it difficult to focus, overthink things, get stressed easily, highly emotional, independent to a fault. Yeah, some of that definitely rings true for me. So anyway, I'm an ENFP. If you're wondering, what are you guys? Please comment below. I wonder, I tend to like most of the people around me in my life are also ENFPs. So I'm curious if that's true for my followers too. I'm sure it's probably true.

way more eclectic but a lot of questions are just in general like how about pride and like how is my pride my pride has been awesome so far I have been beat bopping around and I will continue to do that I'm going to Toronto on Wednesday so yeah

two days and I'll be at Toronto Pride. So if you're at Toronto Pride, please, please, please say hi if you see me. I would love to give you a hug and I would love to chat with you, take a picture, anything you want. Just say hi at all, whatever. I'm around. I love to, I love, love, love meeting y'all. So please, the worst thing in the world is when I see a tweet or like a comment that's like, I saw you last night and I was too scared to say hi. Like, please don't be scared to say hi to me ever. I would love to meet each and every one of you

always if I could possibly I would crawl through the screen and say hi to all of you right now but I can't so hi from behind the screen but yeah if you see me in Toronto please please say hi uh someone else is also asking like what are your tips for pride

I think the best thing about pride is how, like, much it... Well, the best thing about pride... It's not the best thing about pride, but a great thing about pride is there are so many groups of friends melding together. Like, a lot of queer people bringing in, like, any queer person they have as a friend in a city or, like, even allies and people fly in. So, like, a lot of people hanging out who don't necessarily know who knows each other. So just be confident. Like, if you see a group of people...

if you are just hanging around with them, they might literally not know that you're not like just in their friend group, truly. And also everyone is welcoming and friendly during pride. Like it's very much community-based, very much like,

empower and like embracing each other and like loving each other so yeah don't be scared to say hi to people you don't know I think for me personally I would always prefer to have like an ally who is like my one friend so try to find someone to go with you to any event whatever events are around look them up they're all online you can find so many cool events drag shows the parades themselves

park days. There's like so many events happening in every city. So look them all up. Find a friend to go with you and just be friendly. Like go up to people, say hi. People will surprise you and people are so kind during Pride truly. Like people are so welcoming. It's like the whole thing. So get out there. Go to a Pride event. A lot of people talking about my soft launch. I got a lot of questions about the soft launch.

What are the odds? I'm kidding. Of course, that's something I've been talking about, I think, on like a lot of different platforms and like kind of like sprinkling in. So I understand that people are asking questions. I think time will tell how much I'm going to talk about it. I'm definitely going to keep talking about it. I just think.

keep watching keep listening I will keep sprinkling it in I've been sprinkling it in if you've been paying attention then you know I've been talking about this for a while like it's not like new news it just definitely is becoming more obvious but like yeah it's exciting it's fun for me to like be in this like new area of like grayness so it's not so black and white of like ah but yeah I'm sure keep paying attention keep following me on Instagram

Keep listening to the podcast. I so appreciate you guys listening to the podcast. I'm like having, I like can't believe this is real. I can't believe that I'm doing this. I think this is episode 30. Like what, what am I going to do when I hit like episode 100? I'm going to freak the fuck out. When have I ever been this, this consistent with anything? If you followed me, when have I ever been this consistent in general? Before this, I was consistently inconsistent. And now I'm like, dang, I'm consistent and I love it.

It has given my life so much more direction and like structure that I honestly desperately, desperately wanted for years now. Like for years I've needed something like this because I will never ever complain about being an influencer ever. I'm an influencer, a content creator, whatever you want to call it. I kind of align more with content creator.

But I just feel like influencer is kind of the word that's more the taboo or whatever that people like all these influencers are complaining about being influencers, whatever. I will never complain about being a content creator. I know that it is the most incredible job, incredible opportunity. Like I have so much freedom. I'm so, so happy and grateful and lucky that.

But when you go straight into like when you graduate college and you go straight into the work, you should you think you're going to go straight into the workforce. But instead, you go down this path and you never for 10 years have like any like exact routine in your life. You do hit a wall where you're like, wow, I wish I had a little more structure. And by the way, of course, when I was just making YouTube videos, I could have had more structure. But I'm it's really I'm not a structured person anymore.

like on my own. So when it was loose, like when it was like, oh, whatever, it doesn't matter if I post on Wednesday or Friday or if I post at 2 p.m. or if I post at 8 p.m. because it like didn't it wasn't like a hard rule. Right. I would take what is it? What's the saying? When you give an inch and you take a mile or whatever. I was doing that for years to myself, even though I crave structure. I just can't create it necessarily for myself.

So the podcast has just been so fucking awesome. Like I am genuinely so happy and grateful for it because I have to post on time. I mean, to be fair, like I don't really have to, but I decided when I went into it that I had to.

Like I was like, this is the rule and I have to do it. And putting that rule on myself and also like having my manager who holds me accountable to that and you guys who hold me accountable to that. And you're like, where is the podcast if I'm even like a little late? It's just been so nice. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you so much to anyone who's listening, watching, participating, even if you just watch on TikTok or if you like my Instagram posts, like truly thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm so happy and grateful. I think that's all I'm going to cover for this week because I do want to do a solo episode soon. So I don't want to talk about everything I have to say. So I'm just going to go into a mental health check and then we'll start the episode. I feel I'm feeling good. I know I'm traveling right now and I will be traveling till July 1st. And right now is what is the date? June 24th. And I've been gone already for like almost a week.

Right now, I'm like riding a traveling high of just like whatever, like I have not the same kind of routine. I'm obviously not staying in my own room, my own house, which I do really well at. I love to do that. I love to be out of my comfort zone. It's not everyone's favorite thing in the world, but I love it.

But I know and I'm kind of anticipating that I will have a crash when I finally go back to L.A. because that has in the past been what happens. Like I'll be like, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm having so much fun. I'm having so much fun. And then I'll go home and then I'll be like, oh.

What is my life? Where is my grocery? Like, when did I do my laundry last? Like, where are all my clothes? Am I living out of a suitcase? Like, I kind of like spiral. So right now I'm doing great. I'm just like head down going, going, going. But I am anticipating that when I go home, there's a potential that I'm going to be like, if you're just listening, I just like pretend to pass out and laid back. But yeah.

I don't know if I'm going to keep that in because it feels a little dramatic. Anyway, mental health is good. Otherwise, super happy. Happy to be with my family. My sister's here. My brother-in-law is here in New York. I'm staying with my friend Eros, who is family to me, too. So I'm getting to be with like all these people that I love. And then from here, I'm going to Toronto and I get to be with Vanessa, who also is family to me. So I'm just like...

Gosh, I'm so lucky. Also, this is the most I've been to Toronto in so many years. This is the most I've gotten to hang out with Vanessa in so many years, like consistently. And it's so, I just wish that everyone could have friends like the friends that I have. And I hope I'm manifesting that for all of you, like to have not just queer friends, but I mean, minor queer, most of minor queer, like all of minor queer friends.

But just having like friends that you keep for this long as an adult, like friends that I've had for 10 years is it's just so nice. Oh my God. I feel so loved by them. I feel so safe with them. Like I feel, I know that these are forever friends of mine and when I'm around them and I get to be around them often, it's just such a like, it's crazy because I have family. And so like, I don't necessarily need chosen family, but,

Because I'm lucky that my family accept me and they're so kind to me about my queerness and my identity and everything, honestly. But I say this. My family is not perfect, by the way. But you know what I mean? Like, we do have love. We have so much love. But yeah, I'm lucky that I also have this chosen, like, queer friend group that's, like, all over the world. And you guys are a part of that for me also. So, I love you. Am I so sappy? This usually happens to people when they turn, like, 60. It's happening to me at 30. I'm like...

I could cry but I don't cry that often. I have cried though by the way. I think probably in an episode somewhere along the way I said I hadn't cried in a while. I've cried now so that's good. Not in a sad terrible way just in a that needed to happen. This girl needed to let that out which was good and now I'm feeling good and I probably won't cry again for a little bit longer. No I'm

I need to not go on a four month crying hiatus for a while. That was too long. I started to like get scared. I'm like, anytime I would start to cry, I would get so scared to cry because then I think I'm going to like unleash all my tears and never be okay again. Does anyone else relate to that? Anyway, I cried. I survived. Now, hopefully I will cry in little bursts more frequently than waiting four months to cry at all. Okay, I'm done.

Shout out again to Love Travels by Merritt Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode. I love y'all. I love Kate and Sarah. I hope you guys love Kate and Sarah. Please follow them on all their socials. As always, they are in the description below. Whether you're watching it on YouTube or Spotify or iTunes, wherever you watch, it will be there.

And there will be bonus content on my Patreon if you're watching. And my Friend of Dorothy sale is still up. It is a pre-sale. So if you haven't gotten your order yet, that's because it's a pre-sale and it will be closing soon. We held it open longer because we had technical difficulties with the website at the very beginning. So yeah, you will be getting...

That sale may be done by this time next week. I don't know the exact details on that, but if you're watching it, you should definitely check it out and I'll have it on the screen to look at. But yeah, there are shorts, there are shirts, there are long sleeve shirts, there are sweatshirts, there are carabiners, there are hats all in sight ready for you to be a friend of Dorothy and subscribe to my Patreon.

There's exciting stuff coming for Patreon. If you're interested in potentially seeing me live at some point, I highly, highly, highly, highly, highly, highly recommend you join my Patreon now. That's all I'm saying. Okay. Love you. Bye. I'm saying bye and you're gonna have...

Okay, hi guys. Welcome back to X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. Today I'm here with Kate and Sarah. You may recognize them from the internet, their viral wedding and just their daily content. Kate posts all the time and yeah, we're very proud of her. You have to hold this up. Thank you. I'm just kidding.

I'm like, we will not hear you. And Sarah works at Delete Me in cyber tech and security. Privacy and security. There you go. There you go. But also you're online all the time too. Right. Thanks to my wife. Not by choice. Do you ever post any content like your own? I post maybe once a year. Okay. We always make fun of her because she literally is so adamant about boomerangs. Oh shit. I forgot about boomerangs. Not Sarah. Let me show you. She's been

- She's keeping boomerangs relevant. Everything she posts will be just like a boomerang nonstop. We're like, here's, of course she'll take one she really likes and then post it to her feed with no caption. - It's crazy. - The thing that I really struggle with with Instagram is thinking of a freaking caption. - Oh my God. - It's not happening. - No. - It really does not happen. - It doesn't happen. - No, it's not happening. - Yeah, it's not happening.

- Okay, well that's fair. Every couple needs someone who's chronically online and someone who's maybe a little less. - Hell yeah. - Oh my God. - You don't understand, they have conversations, her and her friends, TikTok, and I'm just like-- - Wait, the other day she was like, "Oh, I have to go to the bathroom." I was like, "Go piss, girl." And she was like, "I am."

I was like, right. Okay, sick. Huge shout out to Marriott Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. If you guys don't know, this year was my third year going on their Pride float in DC, which is awesome. I love working with them every year. It's been the best. Love Travels is Marriott's platform that amplifies their commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, social impact, and sustainability. Marriott believes that when we step up for our communities, love nurtures.

And that when we share responsibility for our world, love sustains. When we create opportunities for all, love empowers. And when we promote understanding, love welcomes. Because love travels when we take action to shape a better world. Thanks again to Merritt Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's.

love travels by merit bomb boy love you guys i have to stop doing she'll show me a tiktok and i'll be like whose dog is that or like oh who is that you don't that's my mom my mom everything i watch on tiktok and my mom is on tiktok and she'll be like well i'm not so yeah i'm a real gal she probably oh god you're a real okay yeah we're really exposing you i'm a little disconnected right from the jump she's part of it that's what's sick no it is

You know what? Own yourself. Own your truth. She does. I'm happy. It's Pride Month. You should be yourself, whatever that means. It's okay. Meals too. Thank you. Okay, so you guys got married two years ago now? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you

- And the trip you just went on in April, that was your two year anniversary? - Yeah, but it's also our 10 year anniversary. - Oh my gosh. - In August, so we were like, let's combine the two. - Smart and go all out. - Yeah. - Can you please tell me about that trip? 'Cause it looked fucking insane. - It was the best trip of my life. - It was gorgeous. - First of all, we went to Mariah and Bora Bora. - We went to Mariah and Bora Bora.

you can sit and relax, but also how could you do that when you could look directly down at the water and there's like sea turtles, stingrays, sharks, like holy shit. - It's crazy. - I couldn't believe it. I need to go back. - It really is. Like I was telling someone about this and I was like, I hate to admit it, but like it lives up to the hype. Like I don't wanna be the one to be like, you should go to Bora Bora. - No, you should go to Bora Bora. - It really was incredible. - You guys looked like you had so much fun. And also I loved the post that you made about like every couple has like the one who can't stop.

And you're just like reading your book? Every five seconds. Like I'm like addicted to my Kindle. I was like reading the whole time we were out there. And Sarah literally every five seconds was flying over me, like jumping into the water. Bipping and bopping. Yep. She cannot sit still. Taking laps. Snorkeling. And then she'll like start a conversation with me every four seconds. And I have to like stop where I am out of my Kindle and look at her. And she's like, oh, it's a shark. Look at the seashell I found. And I'm like, OK, I made it four sentences. Got it. Cool seashell. Let's go. OK.

Okay, but I'm like you. I cannot sit still. Don't you want to see it? Also, I want to be in the water. I need to be doing activities the whole time. And I get so fucking hot when I lay out. I do not understand the concept of actually laying out because five minutes in, I'm like, I'm really hot. Correct. I'm just hot. You don't know what to do with yourself. You either have it or you don't. I feel like there's one in every relationship. And Sarah literally, after five minutes, she's like, I'm sweating. Yeah. Belly pops into the water.

water literally you have to also the water was so clear how could you not know did you swim too yeah yeah yeah it was so awesome and the best part was like right before the sun came up if you just like sit at the dock all of like the the giant like so many sharks sharks would just be around and then same during when the sun would go down like you just sit there and you look it's so crazy things you don't see she actually now that i think about it so she surprised me with a private dinner on our balcony which was so beautiful

and I got like a mahi-mahi and it was really big and I couldn't finish it. And I'm like, oh, like let me go check the water after we finished dinner. Like I have my half of a mahi-mahi on a plate, okay? This thing is this thick, like a brick. And I go to look in the water and I come back and I don't even think about the fact that it's gone. Literally, I'm not kidding. We had this like nightly ritual where we would take a walk and we would go look at the sharks.

We are on the walk with the sharks. Sarah pulls the mahi-mahi out of her pocket and is trying to make sharks come. She's literally fish fingers, disgusting, throwing bits of it into the water. I said, what is that? In theory, it was a good point. It's mahi-mahi. Did you put the fish in your pocket? Disgusting. It was wrapped in a napkin. She skipped that step. Oh, I'm sorry. That does it. For the drama. But I did, yeah, it was in a napkin. I was fish fingers, yeah. I was fish fingers.

So nasty. I'm fucking dead. You guys are like such a fun couple. Oh, thank you. You're so sweet. Thank you. I can't, 10 years, that's crazy. 10 years. I can't get past three. Get there? Well, maybe one day. We'll see. Yeah, but 10, like, what do you think the trick is to making things still feel this, like, happy? Two things. Yeah. One, when we first started,

started dating, we were long distance for over a year. So if we didn't learn how to communicate properly, we wouldn't have survived. So true, yeah. And then I've obviously dated other people before her. Granted, obviously, I was young. I was like 22 when I met her.

you realize at a point where like, okay, it's not, I'm banking on her to make me happy. Like you want your partner to make you happy, but I think the most important thing is be happy as an individual, you're happy as an individual, and then we're happy together. Totally. That's what I think. I think also too, like we, within the communication, like we are so vocal about being like,

exactly what we need because I feel like there were times obviously in 10 years like we've had moments of like resentment growing or like weird things and like seasons right yeah definitely like been really rough before and like yeah from those we learn like okay how can we avoid this and so like before we even get like to a point where the emotions feel overwhelming all are gonna be like oh that kind of sucked like what can like this made me feel this way and like we also have like a lot of like specific

rules in our relationship where we like we don't swear at each other we don't blame each other like the way we word things we try to comment things in like a specific way and like also too like we're really good about keeping our individuality like she has her group of friends we have our friends then i have my friends and like we make sure that like you go off and do that i'll take this trip without you and i think that's so important because if we got lost in each other i think it would be really easy to like if we were having issues also feel like i lost myself

So, like, now, like, if we're having, like, a fight, like, I still feel, like, very confident in, like, who I am and what I am. You know what I mean? Like, there's no, like, blurred lines. Yeah, that's true. And one thing that I learned from Kate, too, is she does this thing where she's like, I'm going to get heated. I'm going to take a minute, like, and then I'll tell you when I'm ready to talk about it, which saves so many, like, heated arguments, too. So that's, I mean, it's a superpower. It takes practice, but that also helps. Yeah. You know? Yeah, we're good about that.

- My problem is whenever I have a situation like that, I'm such like a fixer. So it's been such a like thing I've had to learn. - She was like that when we started dating. - That's me. - Okay, okay. I like cannot control the situation. Like I need to walk away. - Exactly. - It helps me too if someone is like, give me space. - Yeah, totally. - But because my initial reaction is always like, what did I do? How do I fix it? What should I do? What can we do? What do, what if? And then it's like, oh my God, it makes it so much worse. - Yeah, yeah, I totally get that. - That's literally what you were like when we first started dating. - That is me. - Yeah.

I feel like in different relationships, I've shown up different ways, though. Totally. Because it's just, like, the way the other person is reacting to situations, too. Totally. That makes sense. Okay, those are all great things. I love that you have rules. We do, yeah. It sounds weird, like, when you say it. No, I don't think at all. I think, how else would you survive, like...

a long-term relationship especially in like 2024 i feel like we don't have that many examples of even like positive straight couples yeah totally you know what i mean and now then to add queerness to it it's like who are we supposed to look up to right yeah

Ellen and Portia. Yeah. But they're kind of crushing it, honestly. As a couple. Yeah. From an outside perspective. Yeah. Have you been sharing the whole time? Like, publicly? Like, the whole time y'all have been together? So, when we've, I had been, like, on Tumblr. Yeah. And when we started dating, Tumblr was the first place I was out. Because I used it, like, as an online, like, no one I knew was on it. So I could be really, like, open. You know how that was. Yeah.

was. I mean, you are preaching to the choir. But I could be like really open on it without like people in my personal life knowing. So it was really one of the only places that I shared really openly about her and I. And that's kind of where like the following started. And then Tumblr kind of died out and Instagram kind of took over. And so like things evolved to that. But I

I was sharing back then without knowing what it really meant to be a person online. Totally. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Reaching to the choir. Same exact thing with my first relationship. Like, started on Tumblr. I was like, no one else is seeing this but us. And then I was like, wait, but now I've already been sharing. Like, I'm going to keep sharing. Yeah. And then, I mean, you guys are just lucky it worked out. I'm lucky that she does not care about that. I'm lucky. Yeah. But also that you're just still together. Oh, that too. I cannot imagine.

But I could not imagine people being so-- I mean, it's nice that people are so supportive of our relationship. But if we do-- and we always talk about this. If we get divorced, not that that's on the table at all. No, no.

- You have conversations. - We want it to be civil. We wanna make sure that we're doing things well. If other people were involved in that, I can't even imagine the emotional layers. I've never had to deal with the negative side of people being involved in your relationship online because we're so, not boring, but we're so together. - You're together. There's no breakup to get hyped up over. - Exactly.

Okay. So in the 10 years then you've had like seasons where it wasn't maybe as good. Did you ever struggle with like how you were posting your relationship? Like, did you ever feel like, I feel like there have been moments in my past relationships where I let people still glorify my relationship, even though behind closed doors, there were like, if they're tense moments, I wasn't,

sharing that part you know yeah it could kind of almost feel like i don't know i would i struggled with that a lot and and i mean that in all of my relationships because obviously everyone yeah and bad times right do you struggle with that at all or what do you do when you guys are having like a bad time so i feel like the last time we had like a really bad time luckily was like eight years ago oh awesome and i don't you agree like when we lived in our manton philly apartment yeah yeah our first philly was that eight years ago

Seven. Seven. Something like that. My bad. And back then, luckily, like, that was when I remember Tumblr first made the switch to Instagram. So I still don't think that there was, like, like, I wasn't posting every day or sharing, like, what I share now or the way that I share now where I'm, like, a lot more, like, I...

like my captions are a lot more thought out and like more personal like a diary like whatever um so i feel like i probably was posting normally but it wasn't like i was lying yeah because like we did have good moments in that rough season but like deep down we both were like

I don't know. It's also weird to think about back then. Like, I was, like, 24. Like, I was so young. Crazy. And, like, obviously not handling things, like, emotionally, maturely. And, like, I feel like Sarah's always been so consistently emotionally mature. And I feel like that's... I struggled with that, too, because I was, like...

Like how are you so like constant all the time? I'm so immature, which made me more mad. But like, I feel like, I don't know. - Well, I'll put it this way. I have never been put in a position where we got into an argument and I have to act like I'm happy in a post. - Yeah, I would never. - That has never happened. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Totally. - And in the past, like you've posted about how like, we're not perfect. - I've shared about that. - Like you've shared about those moments, but like not live. - Yeah. - Like, Tyronn, you're fighting.

you know what i mean anytime i post something even still to this day where i'm like i don't know if sarah would be cool with this i'm always like can you read this can you look at this like are you cool with this going up yeah yeah and she's always like obviously she's like yeah okay she's like yeah okay sure yeah it's fine uh yeah i feel like just the public relationship in general is obviously i talk a lot of about it on my thing because i struggle with it yeah it and it's like i've had so many different experiences with it but yeah i feel like

i don't know i just i feel like it's such a it's so hard not to want to share a queer relationship because of the lack of representation you know what i mean and like the way that movies and even like books which i want to talk about books because i know you love books but like the way that representation still doesn't feel necessarily completely authentic you know it's like i want to keep sharing my relationships to some extent because i'm like this is this is reality also it is reality that

It's not the craziest thing in the world that I'm 32 and had three girlfriends. - Totally. - Three breakups, right? - Yeah, absolutely. - Even though people are like, "Okay, Shannon." - Yeah, you're crazy. - That's pretty normal. - It's very normal. - I know a lot of people who've had 12 breakups. They just didn't have hundreds of thousands of people watching. - Exactly, they didn't want eyes on them. - Yeah. - Do you feel like now being somebody who's shared publicly and kept things privately, do you feel like one is better than the other? Do you feel like it's better to be like, "This is what it is, here's everything," or let people speculate?

I think it's better to not let them speculate. I've not like here is everything. Yeah. But I think the more forthcoming I am, the less like people are curious. Do you know what I mean? That's not as exciting. Cause I feel like for some, like one of my relationships, I feel like people were like sleuthing and all the time trying to find like us in the background of a video, like holding hands or like stuff like that because we weren't sharing it. So I'm like, I feel like it also like made it more,

It put more mystery and pressure and whatever. So if I'm just like, hey, I have a girlfriend and this is the deal, I feel like it gets a little less. You have some control. Yeah. That makes sense.

But I don't know. It's such a weird, it's a weird world. It's crazy to even think about that. Like that you have to put thought into who's going to see me do this with this person. Yeah. It's a weird position to be in. It is bizarre. I do wish that I just got one public girlfriend and it went great the whole time. And that our last fight was eight years ago. That would be, that would have been awesome. But that's not everyone's life. Okay, you guys, don't worry. If you're going through a breakup, you'll survive.

I've done it. She's done it. I've done it. Yeah. Did you date other people before?

I talked to a few girls before Sarah, but none of them were like serious at all. - 'Cause you were 20 and you were 22 when you got together? - Yeah. - That is wild. Did you ever have any kind of like feeling of that you didn't like experiment enough before you guys found both of you? - A lot of people ask that. - 'Cause that's really young for both people to be like, this is my forever at 20 and 22. - Well, I don't even think like for me, like back then, like,

I was just like so, I mean, you know how like falling in love with a girl is especially like, I was like kind of freshly out then. Like I was like, oh my God, like all I was thinking about was like the absolute, like I was so overwhelmed by it. I wasn't thinking about our future. I was just thinking about like, how do I spend all the time I have with this girl right now? And then like, as the days went by, like here we are 10 years later, like I was never thinking about like, will I never experience anything else? Because all I cared about was like that experience. And like,

to like now even i'm like i don't really care like i see i see it online i'm like i'm i'm okay like i feel like i got the better end of the deal yeah you trust me you're good yeah i i came out at like 13 or 14 what yeah what like she's been out since birth it's pretty good pretty comfortable she actually had like a really cool like i wish like all of our friends talk about how we wish that it had happened to us in high school like you can tell your story yeah

So I was in high school, I was a freshman and MySpace was big at the time. And so like I was on MySpace and I knew a girl that was in my class was a lesbian and I knew that she was dating someone a grade above us.

And one day that girl who she was dating a grade above us messaged me on MySpace or we were talking on MySpace, whatever. Then we ended up, we took it to AIM, you know, back in the day. - Okay, we're talking to now. - I'm like, we are really aging ourselves between the reels and Tumblr and AIM.

And then after, like, I don't know, a couple weeks of talking on AIM, she just messaged me and was like, meet me in the G-Wing bathroom at 935. Oh, my God. And I remember, I've never, like, I never...

that I was interested in women, but this was like my first time interacting with one that I knew for sure was gay. And I knew that this could be something. Anyway, I was sitting at my desk and I was looking at the clock and I was sweating and I was like, I'm not going, I'm not going, I'm not going. And I was like, you know what? Fuck it, I'm gonna go. So I went and she was there and I walked in and she just pressed me against the wall and made out with me. - What? - Can you believe, pressed me against the wall? - Yeah, she looked at me and she was like, spit your gum out. And I was like, and then she made out with me again and I was like, I'm gay. This was amazing.

That is awesome. Never turned back. No. We all would have been out by the time we were 14. I know. She just kissed me. Literally. I just, I mean, I had like a traumatic relationship in high school. But, well, we kissed each other a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But then her parents were like, you're going to hell. Oh, yeah. No. Well, you grew up in the South. I don't even know. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a different vibe. It was a different vibe, but still the same. I think there is something so I'm so grateful for that experience because it did make me know so much earlier that I was like, Oh my God, I'm really good. Yeah. Like I'm definitely good. And then I still try and kiss guys. And I was like, this is terrible. Yeah. Yeah. She'll tell you a story later. Okay. Not safe for work. Yeah. Yeah.

And then your coming out experience is so different from that. Yeah, I was dating. I had like never dated anybody in high school. Like I literally grew up in Ohio, like with very religious parents and I wore a purity ring. Like I definitely knew that was my beard, but like, I didn't know, like, I didn't know why I didn't want to hook up with guys. I just knew I didn't. Because the only thing I had learned was just that like being gay was wrong.

after high school, I got my first serious boyfriend when I was 19 and we dated for a year and a half. And the whole time, he was just like, he was picture, he was a beautiful man and he was so kind to me most of the time. - Most of the time. - And when he wasn't, it was probably my fault. He was great. I remember crying to myself in my bedroom and being like, "What is wrong with you that you can't make this work?"

this is everything that your friends are like, you're so lucky. Like, I knew I should feel that way, but I didn't. And I remember like wanting to break up with him and being like, I just, I hope he cheats on me. Like, I hope he does something so that like we can not be together. And then I went to Mexico and got drunk on Long Island Estes and made out with a lesbian. And I was like, I literally was, we made out underwater and I like came up, I came up. And I was like, it was like a rebirth. Don't even know, can't even barely remember. Rebirth? Yeah, it was like a rebirth that came out

from above water and I was like, "I'm gay." - Born again. - Born again. - This is crazy. - Literally, that was like a baptism. - Yeah, really? - Reverse baptism. - Dumped in the waters of homosexuality and never came back. - How do you even make out underwater? - What's crazy is I don't remember. But I remember coming out of the water and being like, "What did you just do?" to her and she was like, "You did that." And I was like, "I gotta go." And I got out of the water, dried off. I was like, "Oh my God." And then she messaged me on Facebook and was like, "Come back down to the beach."

And I did, and we kissed more. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I feel more in this kiss with this random stranger than my boyfriend of a year and a half. Like the math doesn't math on that one. - Definitely. - Yeah, so I like came home and I tried to like play it off to my boyfriend. Like, I made out with a girl, isn't that hot?

And he literally was like, yeah, sure. And then, like, a day went by, and I was like, I can't even look at this man. Like, I can't look at another man, actually. I don't want to see any more men. And I broke up with him, and I just told him, I was like, I made out with this girl, and I have feelings for her, and I just thought I was going to marry her, which is so typical. Like, literally lived in Minnesota, and I was like, what are apartments like out there? Like, no way. I was crazy. I was definitely, like, everyone feels crazy, right? From the first girl. I was nuts. I was...

nuts you were feral it was actually so you were gonna move to minnesota but you weren't were you in ohio i mean it's not yeah it's not like you've been on the scale good point yeah you weren't leaving somewhere amazing right um yeah i'm acting like we're going anywhere i'm packing out of new york city no i was in i was in ohio um and that's it and then i knew from that day and then yeah i got kicked out not ideal but

Here I am, married to a woman. And my parents are back in my life. Ten years later. Yeah, that's crazy. So you're... I was going to say, as a segue, speaking of men, and I was going to talk about the IVF journey, but I'm like...

But now I kind of want to talk about your parents. So I'll circle back. Okay. But yes, you, you like went viral for your parents not being supportive of your relationship with each other and just you being gay, right? In general. Yeah. And now all these years later and post your wedding, they came back. Yeah. And how's that been? It's good. So yeah, they like, my parents kicked me out when I came out. Um, and I lived with my brother for like two ish weeks and my mom wanted to like,

she like kicked me off our phone plan. Like it was like a whole intense thing. And she talked to my brother and my brother was like, would you sit down and have a conversation with her? And my mom was like, yeah, whatever. So we like went over and she basically said that I could move back in, but I had to pay like rent and I couldn't bring my like lifestyle into the house. It was like a whole big thing. Um, and like back, like at that time, like I just didn't have any other options. Like the rent she was charging me was like,

$200 a month. Like it was like, whatever. But I, I like didn't have another choice. Like I didn't, I wasn't prepared for that. So I was like, okay, I'll move back in all I have to do. And like, we had literally been talking for like a month and I was like, she had just come to visit, like came to visit me. And I met her mom, like,

a couple weeks before this happened. - She didn't know who she was. - But like as a friend. - Yeah. And I was just like, I feel bad putting this all on you because she obviously is like, well, do you wanna come to Delaware? Like where her college dorm was. And I was just like, no, like I'll move back in with my parents and like, we'll figure it out. And like back then, obviously we had just started dating. Actually, she asked me to date her like a few days after that. She like sent me flowers and was like, even with all this, like I wanna be your girlfriend. I was like, damn, she's a real one. Yeah.

And I was like, I just have to make it through a year because Sarah was graduating in a year. And she was like, we'll figure it out then. Like, we'll figure out where we'll go. And I saved up for a year and we moved in together. And like, throughout that whole time, I tried to like, hold on to a relationship with my parents. But like, my parents were so...

It was just bad. Like, it was very tumultuous. Like, there was a lot of tension. My mom would make, like, side comments. Like, it just didn't feel like a safe place to be, like, emotionally. Yeah. And then eventually I moved out and we tried to kind of continue the relationship. But if Sarah was, like, in the back, once we moved in together, if I was, like, FaceTiming my mom, like, if Sarah was in the background, she'd hang up. She would hang up. Even her voice. Even her voice. Wow. Like, it was, like, bad. Like, you're terrible. Listen.

What does that say about me? Yeah, right? And it was bad. And then finally, like one day, I like found randomly a forum of parents who had gay children who were struggling with it, like where they were talking about it. And I sent it to my mom. I was like, maybe this would help you. Like it wasn't even like, here's how to accept your kid. It was just like, I have a gay kid. I'm struggling with it. Like here's how to talk about it. Yeah, a community for her. Like here's material. Yeah. Oh, she did not like that.

And we got into a huge fight about it. And I remember I was, we were at her parents' house for Easter and I was like sitting in her childhood bed. And I remember like reading these texts from my mom and I was like, I would not let a single other person in my life treat me like this. Like, why am I letting my mom, like she should not be able to get away with this. Just like, I would not let anyone else get away with this. So I literally texted her back and I was like,

I'm blocking your number until you're ready to fully accept me and Sarah and everything about our life. Don't ever try to contact me again. And from that day, I blocked her. I went to the Verizon store the next day. I got a new phone number. Wow.

committed yeah rala always says she's like you stand on business like when you know wow and so ever heard of a boundary she has no listen and yeah and then about four years later i went with no contact with my parents they uh my uncle passed away and i was at a funeral and they came up to me and they were like we'd like to talk to you guys if you have time while you're home because we were in ohio and i did not want to and sarah was like i think that you should because like either you'll

You confirm your choice is correct. Yeah. We're cutting your parent-- because that's hard. Give them this chance, and if they prove that you made the right choice,

- Yeah. - Yeah. - Totally. - And then if it works out, it works out. - And then they apologized. And at the time, we were like-- - I mean, it was a long conversation. - It was a very long-- and we were like, "We don't know what this means. Like, we don't know if this means you'll be in our life or if we're just, like, good from here. We'll see." And then from there, it just felt very easy. Like, everything from that forward, like, you could tell my parents were trying, like, really, really, really hard to make up for everything that had happened. And still to this day, it's been, like, a year, over a year, and they've been, like, super wonderful. They're, like, obsessed with Sarah and--

I love them. Like, I think that they're great. They're fun. Your mom has a lot of love. Like, obviously the fact that we were missing from her life for like five years, whatever. But it's great. And the...

cool thing is is this past easter they came to my parents house and i looked at kate and i was like yeah but that was the day like easter is like yeah the day she cut them out so it was just like very interesting to like sit at the dinner table with them and my family yeah yeah but her parents came and spent easter at my parents house and then thanksgiving i mean thanksgiving and then i'm all fucked

you guys get it you get it we spent holidays together yeah but yeah it was really good that's so special yeah that like makes me emotional it's wild to think about was it like is it emotional or were you guys like chill there just being like this is just fun which is crazy i'm like a cry no

Sorry, I didn't mean to yell at. No, okay. Actually, when you saw your parents at the funeral, we had to step out because you cried. It was the first time I'd seen my parents in four years. And I was at a funeral, so sorry for crying. But you were crying because, I mean, rest in peace. My parents came up to me and I was like, they tried to hug me. I was like, you don't get to touch me after four years. It was just a very interesting, like,

uncomfortable situation. - I think my only option is to cry right now. - Yeah, so she cried, but after that, no. - No, I haven't. I think because it's just felt so like,

smooth steady and so nice yeah which is crazy i'm like and i think that they know because i told them when we had our first conversation i was like you do one thing to upset sarah to upset me her family and to make us feel like at all and accepted like that's it yeah i'll do it again and i'm sure they put yeah they believe they know she's not fucking around they believe you yeah i feel like that's such a

it's such a beautiful and unique, I don't know, not, I'm not gonna say unique. I feel like that's such a beautiful experience that you've had full circle, especially because you do the stuff you do on social media. So I feel like so many people resonated with your story because their parents weren't accepting. And then now you've given them hope that that's potentially in their future too, which is like crazy. Nothing. I, I never in a million years thought that I would have in-laws. And I, I like felt, I was afraid to share it for a little bit because I know for so many, like I was,

a safe place where they could go to be like, my parents are never gonna come around. So like this person is doing it regardless. And I was really afraid to take that away from a lot of people because I know when I like was sharing that about myself, I loved hearing about it from other people too.

- It's like validating to know that you're not alone. - Yeah, so I was afraid to be like, "Hey, everything's good now. "Sorry for the rest of you." But I was really surprised at the response of people to be like, "No, this helps because I know you really meant it "when you thought that they would never come around." And it does show that people, regardless of how hard they were riding that unacceptance, that they can come around. - And we didn't dive head first into the relationship with them. It took time to get where we are.

and i'm sure it's going to take more time too like yeah rebuild and also getting to know them i'm sure there's so many it's crazy how many things they missed because of that your wedding especially right totally yeah yeah that's got to be hard i hope it's hard sorry this may be mean but i kind of hope it's hard for them no absolutely yeah no we agree completely

I agree completely. No, and they've said that. Like, my dad said when the conversation we had with him, he was like, I wish we were there. And I was like, I'm glad you weren't. Like, you lost that. And, like, our wedding day, people still are like, now that they're back in your life, do you regret it? And I'm like, no, because I didn't feel like I was missing anything that day. Like, there was not, I didn't, I'm glad I didn't have the stress of having to think about, like, what do they think about this moment? Like, are my parents watching this moment? You know what I mean? Like, it was like, it was perfectly how it should have been. And you know what, too? Like, when they come over, we have our wedding photos on our walls and stuff. Like,

they always, they like, they'll look at it and like comment it's in their pictures of our wedding or in their house. And like my mom won't be like, she'll be like, oh, can I have that picture? It'll be like me and all my brothers at our wedding with Sarah. Which was a shock. I was like, yeah. So for her to also not hold resentment, obviously, cause it's their fault, but like to not act like it didn't happen. Yeah. Like I can appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's so beautiful. That's awesome. Also speaking of beautiful, your wedding was so fucking beautiful. Thank you. It's like, I miss it. Should we do it again? Yeah. Again.

um yeah I feel like we were talking about before we started filming but I feel like people resonated with that wedding so much like it really I feel like everything you made from it went so viral yeah why do you think it went like was why do you I'm okay I promise I was on a red eye earlier why do you think it was so well received by people I think

i think because a lot of it i think a like a lot of people who saw the story like who knew our story like yeah they wanted to see a happy ending for us and also because i think it showed like you can have that regardless like you can still have these happy days and how important like chosen family is and also i think like we weren't afraid to embrace like i feel like some like people in the community are so afraid to

put rainbows in certain things or they don't wanna be that queer couple, whatever. And I feel like we were like, all right, here's ways that we can add accents about us being a lesbian couple so that we can show this is a big part of who we are and we're not afraid to involve it with other people, like our grand exit with the pride flags or our cake was rainbow inside. Other people might think that's cheesy or tacky or whatever, but for us, and I've been seeing this on TikTok where people are talking about

all these like rainbows of pride, like that's tacky, I don't wanna use that. Like I wanna like look up, look subtle. And I'm like for so many people, like for me, a younger me in the Midwest who like never dreamed of being able to live my truth, like being able to have those flags at our wedding and the ways that we had them, like it was such a cool, full circle moment. - It was really cool. Those pictures are so cute. - Yeah. - It's so good. - And like, that's what it is. I think people see that and they're like, oh, this is really like, I want this for myself or like, this is,

you know, I don't know. I think it gives people like a hope for their future or like knowing that it'll be okay because I wish that I could have seen that when I was younger. Yeah, totally agree. 100%. As someone who has a rainbow-less pride merch, I just want to say, I do. No, I'm not coming for you. No, I'm just, I want to say like, I also agree. Like I, I never want to like shit on the rainbow. I'm not like someone who's like, I'm cooler than a rainbow. You know what I mean? It's more like I wouldn't wear it just because it doesn't match my like

color yeah totally yeah but like i will day every day but i will literally be on that float tomorrow holding a rainbow like yeah yeah yeah i'm not like anti-rainbow it's like this thing like there are people on tiktok like shitting on rainbows i know i think it's like a trying to be cool thing right yeah which i'm i just i want to make sure everyone knows i'm pro rainbow by the way i don't

I'm a lesbian, by the way. Your merch also says very queer stuff. It's queer. You're also a lesbian. Yeah. It is what it is. You know what I mean? I mean, it's pretty obvious, I think, that I'm also gay. I don't know if I need the rainbow. Totally.

Totally. Okay. I also think something about your wedding that was so cool is that it did kind of feel very traditional in like the look of it and like the way it was presented, like the videography. It felt like a wedding I've seen before, but with a straight couple. Yeah. Not in a way of like, it wasn't unique, but that it was just like, wow, this is so refreshing because it's, I've seen this a million times with men and women, but I've never seen this with

like what could be my future yeah like did you see a wedding yeah period oh my god like any gay wedding i get so excited for yes i feel like you guys also just did such a good job of like whoever like filmed it and took the photography and stuff it's amazing yeah we had a really really sick photographer she was awesome amazing she was amazing really sweet and our videographers we got really lucky and i i think like i

will never beat the basic bitch allegations. And I, listen, I know that and I accept that and I know who I am. And I knew like she let me like plan our whole wedding. - That was like, talk about opposites attract. I was like, all I cared about was cocktail hour and the DJ. - And the DJ, yeah.

let me run that you run the rest yeah i'm good so she was like whatever i trust like whatever you want to do and i was like okay so i just literally was like this is what i like want and i like wanted it to also be something i looked back on and was like in 20 30 40 years like i don't regret doing that oh it's a timeless wedding i feel i hope so we'll see i mean you never know yeah my mom wore like a cowboy hat to her wedding she's from pennsylvania oh i

- I was like, Texas, baby! - There's no reason for this, okay? - She knew where your future was heading. - Yeah, it was just like the era. Also, my parents only dated for six months before they got engaged. - That is so gay of them. - Yeah, and then they got married within like a year and they are divorced, by the way. - Oh, okay. - So. - Damn. - It'll happen as it should. But they're friends and I love that. - Oh, that's cool. - See, that's cool. - I love that. - That's really cool. - They are so cute with each other. They live together right now, actually. - Shut the fuck up. - Yeah, they're roommates. - Dead, I love that. - And they were roommates. - And they were roommates.

Like, okay, we're aging ourselves again. Like, people are like, what's the reference? What's the reference? You guys ever heard of Vine? Google it. Yeah. We've now named, like, every ancient MySpace. Put three 30-year-olds on a bed. This is what you got. This is what you're going to get. Okay, let's circle back to men and your IVF journey and the sperm donor situation. Like, also just your IVF journey in general because I feel like you guys were posting a lot when you're doing the shots. Yeah.

- Yeah. - It was not fun. - Would you like to share your experience with that? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Go ahead. - It's a very broad question. - No, you can take that wherever you want. - We did it because I worked at Metta, I got laid off, the benefit, in six months, I wouldn't have that benefit.

I'm not paying for that. So I was like, let's just do it. - It's astronomically expensive. - The coverage was fantastic. So we were like, let's just do it. - Yeah. For us to like miss out on that opportunity while we had it would have been so irresponsible and stupid. So we kind of had to like kick it into high gear and be like, okay, this is like the timeline that we have. - It was like a month and a half. Like we were like, should we call and see? And then they were like, yeah, let's start next month. And we were like,

I didn't realize how fast you could make it happen if you wanted it to happen. We were under a deadline. We had three months until my insurance was out. And we both had to go through it. Our doctor was like, I don't want you both to go through it at first because it's a big toll on your body. It's a lot. It's a lot of hormones, whatever. So once we got that process figured out what our timelines would be, we had to find a sperm donor, which is a wildly...

It's such a weird process because like even when we were doing it, I was like, we are picking the other half of our future child. Like that's so weird. Yeah. You like disconnected a little bit. Yeah, totally. I cannot imagine. It's very, like if you overthink it, like I feel like you could like...

really freak yourself out. - Yeah. - That's a really big decision. Also, you can't just go on a cryobank website and pick a donor. You have to get someone that matches with this, that, the other thing. - There's tests you have to get. So you get genetically tested when you first start the process and based on what you test negative and positive for, it narrows your options down for other donors. - Yeah, the health.

whatever like markers that you might have. And then, yeah. So it's like, we didn't know about like, we went into this so blind and like learning as quickly too. Yeah. It was overwhelming. It was crazy. And the pool narrows so much when you put your information in, then it's just like,

Like I have 88 people to look through and pick one of them. Like that's crazy. But we found someone. It's weird to like go through because these like donor profiles, you pay like a certain amount to receive a certain amount of information. So like we did like the full one, obviously, because I'm not one

I want to know everything about this man. That's a good investment. Yeah. And so, like, you can narrow it down. Like, we did our search. What we talked about was what was important to us because you could care about height. You could care about eye color. You could care about education. Like, whatever you figure out as a couple or a person, whatever is important to you. And then based on that, like, you narrow it down. And then, like, it gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And then within that, like, the profiles we were choosing from, we used California Cryobank. They have, like...

you can hear like a live interview with the person, they answer creative questions, like there's like all these weird things that you would like not even think about. - Yeah, I wouldn't think about that. - Right, like you would think it would just be like eye color, hair color. - The most important, I mean, not the most important, the most shocking thing was anytime they came into the cryobank,

whatever nurse that was there does a write-up of them and what they thought and how they treated them and like do they know that that's happening i don't know x like i thought that was so which is great like you want an outside perspective yeah he asked me these questions today it was blah blah like it was just very interesting and then they do an interview and you just listen to their voice and how they speak and like crazy it was very very very very interesting yeah if you guys

Well, you're not sure if you're going to ever have kids. Right. For sure. Right. But you have eggs. We do. Embryos. You have embryos when you want them. Yeah, we have little frozen babies. Would you want to do reciprocal IVF or would you guys want to do? She doesn't want to carry it all. You don't ever want to do it? I feel like also, like, selfishly, like, I need that emotional connection. Like, even when it is, because I'll do, like, one of, we'll do one of mine and one of hers. And I feel like I need to have that involvement just because, again, she's way more emotionally mature than me. Like, I feel like I need that.

um so like we agreed like we would do one of each of ours yeah but we wouldn't tell anyone which one yeah that's fun yeah that is so cute i always say sarah's gonna come out i know she had like a little bob and i was like

- I don't think it's gonna come out looking exactly like her and everyone's gonna fucking know, but it's fine. We're gonna not tell anyone anyway. - That's actually so cute. I've never heard of anyone doing that before. - Yeah. - You love books and you have like a queer book list, don't you? Is it queer, is it lesbian or what is it? - I have just like a queer one and then I have like regular, like straight ones.

How many books do you read? My goal is 52 a year. But I usually read over that. Usually? Do you read? Wait. No, she likes to smell the pages of books. That's like, sometimes she'll just read and I'll just look over and see. It's been so long. I've had a Kindle since like last March. Yeah, I did turn her on to the Kindle. Oh, a Kindle is awesome. You never like opened a chapter book and like... No, Sarah. Yeah, I do that too. Thank you. I do...

like bookstores like the book smell my sense of smell is really strong i think like really strong like i'll like walk into a room and be like i can know it's like who's there hell yeah dude i always say i have like a dog's nose she is and also like it sucks though too because i'm really sensitive to people's perfume or like cologne like it can make me feel sick totally yeah yeah and when you're on a flight and someone around you has it yes or if you like

are dating someone or starting to date someone you're like oh my god we're gonna have to change that happy second day yeah uh do you wear perfume i do do you wear perfume sometimes yeah do you guys wear is it perfume or cologne

this is a random i guess what i wear yeah victor arnold's cologne is really really really nice oh this i love that the spice bomb her dad ate it up too he's like you got any more of those no way i want to pass them out to my friends because he's from brooklyn i'm like yeah here it's a couple but that one i really like that's like for cologne i think that's the only one i've ever like worn yeah i really like that but you do wear perfume yeah i forget which one you always wear um

Anyway. I've never asked that question on the podcast before. I'm just thinking about it. Okay, what kind of, what, not that we need more labels within this community, but what kind of lesbian do y'all identify as? I would say, I would say, she struggles with this one. I'm curious because I feel like you're riding a lot of lines. Athletic, tomboy. Well, it is now. We get to make this up. I could be femme and then I could be like, whatever you want to call this.

a chapstick is what a chapstick a chapstick that's what it is there you go there you go yeah yeah you're obviously femme yeah i chapstick too yeah but you're like more feminine well what it's

it's i don't like talking about it like that but like i wouldn't wear a wedding dress okay yeah i gotcha did you know for sure you're gonna wear a dress yes and you never questioned it one time you look bomb hey you're welcome so did you thank you don't worry no she did that was so excited for our first look on the morning of our wedding she texted me and she was like are you ready to marry me i sobbed i literally was like i was all morning i was so excited to see her

What did the inside of my dress say? I had, so my dress had a slit going down it and... It's like our family is... Our family is... How do neither of us know this? Our family is chosen by love? No. Our family is built by love? No. Anyway, you open the slit of my dress, it would say said saying and then Paisley's face was... It was our dog's fucking... It was all cool. It was really cool. It was really cool. I'll text you when I remember what it says. Our family is... Anyway...

It was based on chosen family. Yeah. And it was really, really important to them. It was cool. It was so meaningful and memorable. And unique. Super memorable. Yeah. Yes.

sorry did you guys how did y'all pick your dresses did you have like someone did you know your dresses matched each other or like we designed them with a company and we just said we want the same white we don't care anything else we just want to make sure that they have you have you ever seen like two wedding dresses that don't go together yeah we didn't want that yeah i was so scared i know that was a fear of mine back when i was like oh we're dressed yeah yeah

- I can't. - It was difficult though. Someone like her could thrive in designing their own wedding dress, but me, zooming with fashion designers and they're like, "So what do you want?" And I'm like, "I don't fucking know." - Like this is your job. - That's crazy. - You tell me. - You tell me. I have no idea. - I did try to wear a suit to our rehearsal dinner. - Yeah, that would've been cool. - And I went through three suits and I was just like, "Why can't I?" I thought it would be really cool to plot twist people.

- Everyone wants to design me a suit to try it again. It didn't work out for me. - You didn't like them? - I just couldn't make it work. They all fit me kind of funky one day. - Suits are hard for women's bodies too in general. It's so specific. I don't ever know what to wear when I'm dressing up. - It's hard, man. - It's so confusing.

- Okay, I gotta go to Aritzia. - Yeah. - If I like see business casual, I'm like, fuck. - What? - I'm coming to Aritzia. It's like literally the only thing I know to do. I'm like, and then I get in there and I don't even know what the fuck to do once I'm there. - I hate shopping. - I hate shopping so much. - She like is like, she doesn't love it either. And like when she finds something she really likes, like within a week she'll have six in the same color. - Oh, I do that too. - Yeah. That's like, I feel like it's 'cause like, especially when you struggle with it, it's like when you find something that you can trust,

- Totally. I'm all for a uniform. My dad is like that too. He wears the same thing all the time. Just like black shirts, blue jeans.

and lizzy and anytime we talk about it we're like oh another black shirt he's like you know that um wearing a uniform is a sign of genius i'm like okay jim beverage thank you must be you but i'm like now i'm turning into that and i'm like that's fine you're a genius yeah sorry it's all up here yeah i was talking about it i was talking with lauren earlier my manager about how with the podcast i'm this is

like episode 27, I'm like running out of different combinations of outfits that I have. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, I keep, I didn't even think. Yeah. Cause I don't want to like outfit repeat, but then I'm also like, how many outfits am I supposed to own? Well, you know what? This actually, we like will low key match all the time. And like when we came here, I looked at her and I was like,

- We have to make sure we're not, I'm so-- - I had a white tank top on. - I am so afraid of the sister allegations. - No, you guys do not look alike. - We get it all the time. - What the hell? - All the time. - Oh man, how are you sisters? We'll be like holding hands. - On vacation? - Like shaking out. - Yeah, I'm like yeah. - Yeah, from Arkansas. - You felt like this with your sister? - Yeah. - Yeah, it's horrible. So when we go on stuff, I'm like we have to also make sure. But there's only so many different ways you can wear certain things. - Literally. - Yeah. - You know what though? She'll put something on and look like a femme princess and then I'll put her on and I'm like, what's happening?

- That's how she stands. - What the fuck? - As she's going like this. - She's the standing emoji at all times. I'm like, you, oh my God, I had to film a brand deal with her. - This was my nightmare. - And I was like, it was like for different outfits. And I was like, okay, we're just gonna walk on, like just move a little bit and then we walk off and then we do that like five times in different outfits. - No. - I looked at her and I said, you gotta give me something. - She literally goes, oh, this is gonna be more stressful than I thought. I was like, fuck, more pressure. - She literally was like, just put your hand on your hip and like look away. And she literally was like,

- Ready to be a model. - Well, picture they smiled like this is really stressful. Anyway, came up great. - Not my thing, did my best, whatever. - You gotta approve, that's all that matters. - There we go. - You're welcome. - That's literally all that matters at the end of the day. Yeah, I feel, I struggle with that too. Just like the- - Can you imagine? - I don't know. It really, I mean, it makes sense. But then also sometimes I'm like, how the fuck is this my job? - Yeah. - Because I'm not necessarily- - I don't know how you guys do it. It's a superpower. - But I also like, when we started,

on tumblr it was a different thing completely like it was not especially there was moments like around 2016 17 18 where i was like oh my god i don't think i could do this forever because it was like the rise of the vlogger and like the in la too like you'd be going anywhere and there would be someone like with their little canon g7x vlogging and i was like

it's gonna end for me yeah that's not ever gonna happen for me yeah i've like vlogged obviously a few times but it makes me so uncomfortable i went on an influencer trip like a year two years ago and i should not have gone um that's what i learned first and foremost i can never go on one by myself again it was the girls were so sweet but i just realized like i'm not that type of

creator like they were so good at turning on and like walking and laughing and like having fun even though they didn't know each other at all and i literally was hanging out with the people who put the trip together because i was like i'm i'm okay like i don't need to get in that like i'm just not that and i'm so socially uncomfortable like when we go to like certain things like i literally need her to come or i will just stand in a corner and not talk to anybody i'm the same way it's and i'm like how is this my job i know it's confusing i think i think

I don't know it's like a rise of a new influencer too yeah and now it's changing again like it's all I know it's not the same I've watched the young ones on TikTok and I'm like man you got what I don't you deserve this following but also like yeah just the barrier to entry is so low so back to the books you have like a doc right where people can find the books or no I just have a highlight on it there is somebody on TikTok with a doc okay I just have a highlight because I'm lazy

Fair. Okay, well, I just, I get asked all the time and I don't really read that much. It's a thing. I need to start because I do feel like I am becoming dumber. The books that I'm reading are not building my brain power. I know. I don't even think,

I'm just like, I am using the wrong, like yours and theirs. And I'm like, I just need my brain to be looking. I need to be looking at this a little bit more. I know. But ever since I started the podcast, it's so consistent compared to anything I've ever done on social media. Cause I used to be so like, Oh, like I post videos on Fridays.

which ones like every six yeah and then doing this like i don't have the option to not yeah that's true so it's like just a whole new i have a whole new relationship with social media right now yeah that i'm like when i'm not doing it i'm not necessarily like

I need to be picking up a book instead of like disassociating and scrolling on TikTok. Oh yeah. Because like my screen time right now is just unbelievable. That takes a lot of time. Yeah. I like went a long time without reading. I was a big reader in like when I was younger and then I went a long time without reading and then I picked up my Kindle again. I feel like once you get like one good book to start your like momentum, it's easy to like, especially like it's so nice now that there are so many like sapphic books to read. So like I like to be able to like

I don't like watching TV, personally. Whenever I say that, I always feel like that Kourtney Kardashian, you're not better because you don't watch TV. You know what I'm talking about? I hate saying that. But I really don't watch TV. So when she watches TV and I want to still be with her, it's nice to be able to pick up a book and read. There's so many sapphic books. And Sarah will only read a sapphic book if it's 90% porn. So there's something for everyone. So you can find what you like.

- Literally, like, she'll be like, "Is it spicy?" And I'm like, "No." She's like, "Yeah, I don't care." - Wait, what's your favorite book? - I would say probably, I really liked "The Song of Achilles." That was beautiful. And it's gay. And then I really liked "The Seven Husbands of Ababang Hugo." - That's my favorite too. - It's like, it's a classic. - It's so good. I cried like 20 times in that book. - Oh, the end of it? I was like hysterically sobbing, yeah. - Did you read it? - I did read it. I did read it and I really liked it.

And it's not that much spice. --My mom read it. Yeah, it was great. --My mom read it too. And my mom read Song of Achilles. --It's really it takes a bit to get into, but it's really good. --Okay, should we talk about sex? --Yeah. --If you want to. --I've been waiting for you to ask!

I'm like, "What should we talk about?" I feel like a lot of times with couples, if I have a couple on that's been together a long time, I do like to ask about, like, what do you guys think about lesbian bed death? Oh, yeah. I think it definitely exists, for sure. Like, you have to, like, communicate. There's a point in your relationship where you actually start to have to communicate about sex. Do you know what I mean? Which is something you have to learn. I've never done... You know what I mean? Like, that's something new. But, like, yeah.

I think, too, like, I actually watched a TikTok video.

everything i'm referring to it's like my tic tac my whole podcast is moving like same thing so i saw this thing now i don't say where i saw oh my god i recently heard yeah anyway these people were talking about somewhere um that it was like this long-term couple and they were talking about how like it ebbs and flows in relationships and like there are times where like my needs emotionally outweigh my needs like physically yeah and i think yeah like now like it's like it changes

over time, but I love the way our relationship is and how we all straight up look at her and be like, we should have sex tonight. What the heck? Or if it's not like- Or if we were supposed to, if we planned to, I'd be like, eh, I'm tired. You know what I mean? It's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's definitely different, but it's more comfortable and-

I just, I like love where we are now and like how comfortable we are with each other and the way that we like understand each other's bodies and emotions within all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And if it, if you do feel like it's like you're hitting that lull, there's nothing wrong with asking, okay, why? Like, how are you feeling? Yeah. I think sometimes what helps me is I remember like your love language. So I'll try and start to do things, you know, that help us like get closer in that way. Totally. So it is interesting though.

Yeah, I mean... Yeah, definitely ebbs and flows. Yeah, even in, like, three-year relationships that I've had, like, that alone, there's, like, highs and lows with your sex life. And also, like, I think that... I feel like it's a bad thing to keep talking about in some ways because I feel like straight couples have it, too. Totally. So it's, like...

why is it lesbian bed death? Like, I think this is just like a serious, a thing that happens to people. Yeah. Uh, Rose and Rosie also talked about it on my podcast and they were saying that they like, they do schedule it. And so, and I was like, they were like, it might not sound hot. Like maybe that's not sexy. And I'm like, no, but you're prioritizing it, which is just like the reality of, and I'd rather there are, there are times where we're like super busy or super tired or whatever it is. And I'll look at her and be like,

like let's have sex Friday like and then we start to like look forward to like that time together and also it just like it's like making sure that we are like we're not making plans like our plans are with each other and like then we like get in bed and giggle together and it's like yeah like it's like I don't know I feel like there were so long where I was like so ashamed to talk about like it ebbing and flowing and I wanted to be like this like hot couple all the time and like we are when we are but like it's just like we're comfortable with each other like we are best friends and a couple and it's easy also to like

not prioritize things and end up on the couch together every night and then wanting to go to bed and like getting comfortable and like we make sure that that doesn't happen by doing xyz so that we can always maintain like a romantic relationship on top of our friendship yeah yeah i that i think that's the thing that i always fear will happen is just like that you turn into roommates yeah and then you're like wait what the hell happened here and i think there's two like with her and like i i feel like we do a really good job of like

I would know if she was feeling not physically attracted to me because every single day, like, we are still so touchy-feely and, like, we prioritize, like, making sure we're still, like, kissing each other all the time and, like, saying certain things to each other all the time. And if that was missing, like, I know that she is still attracted to me for so many reasons because she makes it such a priority to, like, still...

She compliments my body, texts me certain things about myself. There's just so many things that have never been lost since the beginning of our relationship that I hope in 20 years we're still old and doing it to each other. - That's so cute. Okay, recently you guys both have gotten so, so fit, right?

like i mean she's always been fit hate to admit it okay well i should say you went on your trip and you guys were posting all your swimsuit stuff and i'm like what the fuck i need to go i need to go to the gym but does that also i feel like that probably has that helped your sex life too and like when someone's like taking care of their own body i feel like you're kind of get like wow that's hot you

- Well that too, but also like you feel good about yourself. So then you feel sexy again. - That is even a bigger thing. Like I've never felt, which is so silly because like your self worth should never like compare to how you look, whatever. But like with, because I've done it and I know I've done it in a healthy way. Like my mindset was healthy and I'm still eating so, I'm eating more now than I've ever eaten in my life. And like, I'm doing it in a way that I know is like

good you're also working hard right and so like the confidence that i felt in that and like also she's like so reassuring with me and like helps motivate me and i like that we have this together like we go to the gym together every single day and we like cook our meals together and like that is like a fun thing that we get to do as like a we're always like at our gym on saturdays it's like partner workouts and we're always partners it's like fun to have that together so like to celebrate that together and so for people to be like oh my god you guys are great we're like thank

yeah and it's nice it always feels good to like invest in yourself yeah to your health and like it's cool that we get to do that together yeah yeah yeah so i need to get a gym membership and we should we should all drop into a crossfit gym tomorrow if you want to come come you guys i would be so embarrassed you want to know what i do to work out right now 10 push-ups a day if i know that's actually really good it's a lot it's actually a really good workout thank you guys and you want to come we'll hype you up no

- I don't know what you do. - Yeah, wait, I could do it. I feel like I literally cannot lift even like five pounds. I'm so weak. - You don't have to. I was using 10 pound dumbbells in the gym today. - Okay. - Everything, you could do body weight shit, like whatever. - We can discuss this. - It'll be fun. - We can discuss this. - Our next CrossFit queen is Shannon. - Imagine, but the thing is I get bulk like so fast. I turn like become very muscly very quick. - Oh really? - Yes, and I feel like it does something to me like,

again with gender dysphoria where i'm like i see i feel like i look too boy yeah you know what i mean like i'm like when i don't work out but this is terrible obviously i need to find the right workout totally because i was doing pilates for a minute and i liked that i was kind of like yeah that was good recently went through the same thing just because my body changed so much and i like

My boobs went down like four cup sizes. I don't know what I can say on here. I'm so sorry. - You can say anything. - Okay, and like my body just changed a lot. And like I lost a lot of my feminine body. And I like look in the mirror when I wear certain dresses or like people make certain comments. And I'm like, it's a weird thing how our body changes and how we like, how it messes with us mentally. 'Cause I can like it so much in this one time. And then also in the same like day be like, wait a minute, like this is messing with how I feel about

my gender or like whatever it is you know what I mean like it's so weird because we have like such a unique and like specific relationship to our own bodies and then if it changes at all you're like wait yeah what is going on yeah even if it's like this is what I wanted but now it's like oh this one other thing is a little bit different yeah like when I was in high school I did track and

My legs were like touched all the way from the top like to the bottom basically. Yeah, I'll show you pictures. Yeah, I was gonna ask. Sarah's like excited. She's like, okay, we're doing CrossFit. We're doing CrossFit. Anyway.

Tomorrow, CrossFit. One. First on the docket. Then two, DC Pride. Yes. And you guys have been with Marriott before. Yeah. And me too. But never together. Never together. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. The other times I've gone, I always love everyone that's on there, but I've never had someone that I knew beforehand coming in. It's so nice that you guys have each other to bring. Listen, if they don't let me bring Sarah, I don't go. I cannot be alone. As I said earlier, we have such big individuality.

I like I can't imagine standing on the floor not knowing someone and just being like I would be so awkward I know I would oh my god y'all's arms are gonna look so good tomorrow so will you I am doing I'm doing my push-ups at least I need to be the arm pump and we'll be holding rainbow flag yeah I'm so excited I love

Pride. Pride. It's going to be so good. I love Pride. I love Pride. I love DC Pride too. It feels kind of like special because it's like the politics of it all. Yeah, yeah. Definitely. They get so excited. Like I, when we were going through the parade last year, like I could not get over how excited people were for every single flow. And like that energy helped us so much. It was very helpful. Because we obviously at first were like,

- What do we do? - Nervous and everybody else, they were so excited. It's so cute just to see people. I love Pride. I cry once every Pride parade. - Really? - Yeah. - Yeah, I just think about how special it is that so many people get to be together to celebrate this where in so many places it's not. - Yeah. - You can't. - Yeah, I also love, 'cause I live in LA and in LA Pride, it's a much more adult scene, I feel. And DC Pride feels very family and there's a lot of kids and stuff out there.

And that's nice. Cause I'm like, Oh, a kid in rainbow garb gets me every time. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. No friend of Dorothy merch for little kids. They need the full rainbow head to toe. Please. Yes.

Thank you guys so much for watching or listening wherever you are right now. Please check out Kate and Sarah's social media. Sarah will be posting reels maybe. Boomerangs for sure. Okay, shout out again to Love Travels by Merritt Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. I had the best time in DC. I always have the best time working with them. I have the best time staying in Marriott's. Obviously, they're so nice. And you may notice that this episode was filmed in Paris.

a hotel in DC and a Marriott hotel. And I really, really appreciate them letting me use the space to film.

because it was also awesome to be able to film in a bed and a king-size bed for once with two people made my life a lot easier. Love Travels is Marriott's platform that amplifies their commitment to diversity, equity, inclusion, social impact, and sustainability. Marriott believes that when we step up for our communities, love nurtures, and that when we share responsibility for our world, love sustains. When we create opportunities for all, love empowers.

And when we promote understanding, love welcomes. Because love travels when we take action to shape a better world. Thanks again to Merritt Bonvoy for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. Love Travels by Merritt Bonvoy. Love you guys. Do you guys have anything big coming up? No. No. Okay, perfect. The same old. That's what we're, we're consistent. Okay, but Kate might start a podcast.

Yeah. What if I just put the microphones? Sorry. I bought microphones. I said we have the microphone. What? Oh my God. I don't even have the right setup. Okay. This is fun. I can help you. There you go. You do CrossFit and I'll start a podcast. Okay. I regret it. Okay. Bye y'all. Bye.