labels, toxic relationships and cuffed sleeves with Madeline Argy
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okay hi guys my name is shannon beverage welcome back to my podcast uh kind of crazy that i've been saying okay hi guys on my channel for 10 years and like 95 of my following is women i should i could say hey girls hi okay hi girls anyway

I have recently been saying hi y'all and using y'all much more frequently because it's so gender inclusive. It's kind of awesome. So life hack, if you're looking to be more inclusive in your language, you can say y'all.

But I guess it makes more sense for me because I am from Texas. So it's appropriate. It doesn't come out of nowhere. The y'all make sense. Anyway, if you're watching this, then you can obviously see I am not in my room. I am not in Los Angeles. I am in Toronto visiting my best friend, Vanessa. She's here right now with our other friends, Shannon Burns and Katya Temkin. And I'm sure they can hear me right now, which is stressing me out. But they're being respectful if they are in there, if they're listening.

They're not saying anything. Anyway, last week I did a really quick intro joking about how someone gave me feedback from my Rose and Rosie episode that the intro was too long. So then I did a really short one and then everyone was like, no, we love the intro. We love a long intro. So now I guess I'm talking more. But anyway, quick mental health check in. It's getting a little boring because they've just I've been like, I'm good every time.

I am good. I'm happy. I'm feeling great. I didn't have therapy this week because...

Hillary needed a break from it. No, I'm kidding. I just was on this trip. So we took a break, took a week off. So I'll be back to therapy next week. I think if I'm feeling anything mental health wise recently, I'm feeling like self-conscious for some reason. I don't know where that's coming from. I don't know if it's because I'm posting so much and like editing myself so much that I'm thinking about myself too much. Like I just, but...

It's hard to explain, but I guess, I don't know, something I've recently been feeling is just really self-conscious. Look at my pinky nail. If you're watching, it's painted because I painted cat's nails at the restaurant we were just at. Anyway.

How are you guys doing? I don't know why that happens to me every once in a while, the self-conscious thing. It's been a thing. I've had this happen before and I don't know if it's because of being perceived more or if it's also just like sometimes just like the cycle of my period will make me really self-conscious. So if you can relate, hey, hey, hey there. I don't know what I'm saying. Anyway, I'm really excited for this guest today.

sick to have someone from the UK on the podcast and in real life. So that was so fun. Love a good accent. I really, really love Madeline Argy. If you don't know her, she has a podcast, which is great, but she's also so funny on TikTok. I love her TikTok. So if you haven't seen, definitely check it out. She does like amazing story time, little videos, and her stories are ridiculous. Like I can't believe her life is real, but

It's real and she's such a sweetie and we had such a good time. So I hope you like this episode. What else did I want to say? Oh, I also have one question for everyone. Well, not everyone. Well, yeah, everyone. Do you, where do you clip your nails? Because I do it sitting backwards on the toilet and I've always done that. And I need to know if that is a gay thing, if it's a universal thing. Where do you guys do it? Please let me know. Okay.

Anyway, enjoy this episode. I hope you guys love it. And I love you. Okay, bye. Yay.

Okay, podcasts are so awkward. I'm like, I ask people to ask me questions to ask you and then everyone's like, how do you guys meet each other? And I'm like, we're about to. It's about to happen right now. And then we'll start recording, which is like crazy. I like it. I think it's a good way to do it. Okay, you're confident. Got it. I'm like, I can do this. Okay. Okay. What's your podcast called? Pretty Lonesome. Pretty Lonesome. Is this? Mm hmm.

That's sick. Okay, hi guys. My name is Shannon Beveridge. I'm the host of X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. And today, all the way from the UK, we have Madeline Argy. I wanted to say Argy, but no. I know I heard that nearly come out your mouth. I really thought about it. I thought about it, but no. You may know her from TikTok or her own podcast, Pretty Lonesome. And I'm so happy that she's in LA so we could do this podcast together. I DM'd you and I thought we weren't going to do it.

because I didn't get back to you. I was like, okay, I swing and a miss, but then you're still here. Well, I replied and I was like so excited and I was like, I'm going to get back to you with a response in the morning and then I just... And then I was like, okay. That is just how I behave. No, I behave the same way. I honestly was like, got nervous too and I was like, I was confident when I DM'd you. I was like, I can do that for sure. I can talk to a stranger and I was like, what if I can't?

Well, you can. I was so excited when I got that DM. Oh, that's so nice. The first time I ever like found out who you were is when you were joking about dressing like me. Like my Tumblr...

Oh my god. Someone sent it to me. I'm going to have to show you a few pictures from that phase of my life. I want to know what you think I was dressing like in 2016. Okay, well, I was dressing like maybe an older version of you in 2016. It was very like I would wear skin tight, skinny jeans with like black jeans and like a rip in the knee. I was going to say a hole. And then like a Vans black t-shirt. Obviously, skater girls. Did you ever skateboard? No.

But my girlfriend at the time did. And she dressed a little bit like you as well. I feel bad that I was influencing a generation to wear those clothing. The skater girl look when you're not a skater is just really not a vibe. It wasn't the best phase of my life on the family.

But hey, it looked like I have this one video I'll show you when we finish this because it's the worst thing you'll ever see in your life. It was like my friend's like school project and she was doing it on like queer relationships and I was dressed exactly like you. And I did this whole like skit with my best friend where we were like lovers that weren't allowed to be together and like we kiss at the end. And I was like at the time I was so proud of it. I was like, yeah.

Is this in high school? Yeah. What the hell? Like, you're 23. I'm 32. I feel like that's such a big difference between like your queer experience and my coming out experience. Like, you're in such a cooler generation of acceptance than I ever was.

Yeah, true. Did it feel that way? I mean, the fact that I wouldn't have even mentioned that I knew of gay people in high school. I'd be like, what? No. I've never even heard of that. You could be gay? Didn't know. Yeah. Well, I feel like I was behind the times. Really? Yeah. Like, I didn't know what the word bisexual was until I was like maybe 10 or 12. Okay. And then I remember when I learned and I was like, what is that? What's that?

Hey, that could be, that could be me. Yeah, and like, it was not, you would have struggled to like, be gay at my school. Really? Are you from like, where are you from? I'm from Sussex in the UK, which is like, an hour outside of London. Okay. Like, central London. Is it like, suburb-y? Or is it like, country-like? It's like, every small place in the UK is the same. It's just like, the middle of nowhere, like,

I don't know. It's not a sub... Maybe it's a suburb. Do we know what a suburb is? No. Yeah, I don't even know how to... Like any like... It's like a tiny town. Yeah. Like neighborhoods. Yeah. A lot of schools. Yeah. Kids, parents, family. Yeah, that's what it was. Okay. But was it... Is it like cool there? Or like open-minded? Or...

It's weird because I feel like if I was talking to an American person, I'd be like, so are they Democrats or Republicans? Oh, okay. Our equivalent is like, well, it's like left and right wing. Left is like slightly better. Right is worse.

I think... Very easy description. Yeah. Well, it's definitely a mix. Like, the place I went to school, there was, like, three towns that went to this one school. Okay. And every single town was on a completely different vibe. Really? It was really weird, yeah. Even though they were all, like, within half an hour of each other. The town I came from was very, like...

they would vote for like the Green Party, which is like not even some like a major running party. It's like the ones that want to like save the trees. Like independent. We have similar. Yeah. And then the others were less inclined to do so, but I think it was just like, I don't know, it was still like the word lesbian was like a dirty word. Oh, for sure. It was a complete insult and like I didn't know any gay people until I think I was the, was I the only gay person in my year? Maybe. Hmm.

that's crazy that you even were out at all to me yeah well i only came out when i was 16. but that's still pretty young that's crazy yeah i mean when i was 16 i was secretly making out with a girl so i was like halfway there but very secretly like very no one was ever going to hear about that right um was that were you like did you have a girlfriend i did yeah when you were 16.

Yeah, but it was also very secret. Got it. It was not a great situation. Got it. Mm-hmm. Toxic vibe? It was, like, it's the one ex that I, like, don't speak about on social media. Really? Yeah, like, I've never, like, even done, like, a story time from that relationship because it's, like, so fucked. But, yeah, I was dating her, but it was a complete secret. Mm-hmm. And it was very, like, bad and shameful. And then...

i dated my second girlfriend when i was like 17 and we were out so that was kind of fun that was like completely different completely different than the shameful vibe yeah i feel like i had it the girl i talked about my 16 year old girl i never talked about her either for like a really long time i would like allude to it but i wouldn't really talk that much about it and then she went on a podcast

and talk she's really religious and isn't straight now but she went on a podcast and talked about codependent friendships and said that like she had one codependent friendship that turned physical which was ours obviously and she's like and then I found out she had two more after that and then she's like on this podcast talking about how you can find Jesus and leave behind codependent friendships I'm like

by codependent friendship so she mean your lesbian relationship yes i'm like lovely um that's not giving friendship to me but okay but yeah once she started talking about that more publicly and she like fully was like i i what did she say she like dabbled in homosexual sin so now i'm like okay well i don't have to protect you completely because you're like kind of said it but before that i was always really like cautious to talk about it because i'm just like

I don't know. I don't want to blow up someone's whole life. And she's the only person I ever dated not being a public person. You know what I mean? So still no one knows who she is? No. Oh, good. No. But everyone I dated since then, I was always like posting online. So I feel like a little bit you knew what you were signing up for dating me. Like I'm a public person and I talk about stuff. But it's weirder like retroactively like to talk about someone who never knew I was going to be like

Oh, yeah. 100%. Yeah. Like, that must be weird for you, too, because you, like, blew up on social media fast. I mean... Right? I don't know. I feel like you did. Like, when did you start posting? Um...

like like actually I think like early 2022 like January maybe that's crazy and now you're signed with Alex Cooper's podcast network like that living in her back garden that's crazy it's like two years that's insane is that two yeah that's really wild yeah and that must be so weird for the people who dated you before that to be like oh my god is she gonna talk about me yeah

I don't know what they think about it because I don't speak to any of them. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't. I've like never, like, there's one ex that was just like the craziest person I've ever met in my life. So I talk about her a lot because I can't not. She has to be talked about. She also, like, when I started posting, she, like, I was still healing from the shit that she pulled. So I was like talking about it a lot.

And I've done a couple podcast episodes even like recently just like alluding to it. And we've never spoken about it. Like how, what is she thinking somewhere? Do you think she consumes it? I have no idea. What are you saying?

I really don't know but like I actually reached out to her like maybe like a year ago now when things kind of started to happen for me and I was like oh I don't know how she feels about this because I do talk about her but I never like say the color of her hair or like yeah like sometimes I use like gender neutral pronouns just so people don't ever go looking for her because I don't want that even though I like don't like her I'm like yeah I don't want to ruin your life um and I so I reached out to her and I was like hey do you want to grab coffee and like

i just wanted to hear how she felt and like give her a chance to be like can you not talk about this and like whatever if you don't want me to i won't um and she didn't respond no she did she said um she said no and then she said yes and then i said no because i was like no you lost your chance i was like i had like a 10 minute spare window and she said no and then she said yes and i was like never mind and then

I think I reached back out and I was like actually actually yeah come and then oh my god and then we we just never did it so I don't know and now we don't speak again okay well if that's any indicator of what your relationship was like I'm like stressed out for you it seems like probably you shouldn't talk but it is like a strange it's strange with social media in general also like that anyone could go on and do a story time at any time like you don't even have to have a following like any following and you could just go on TikTok and tell a story oh yeah and it'll probably get

millions of views it's crazy like that um risa tisa lady yes yes who the fuck did i marry yeah literally i'm like whoa anyone can just like that's crazy the barrier to entry social media now is like there is none because everyone has a phone like yeah who doesn't have a smartphone versus when i was starting and doing youtube stuff it was so much more like you really had to

care enough to be like buying a computer like editing your videos and then posting them like it's just like a different vibe in general well the algorithm's so different i feel like and that's the main social media channel like you have to put effort into it because like tick tock it'll just get picked up yeah if it's the right content but not youtube in the same way no and now youtube is like

I just feel like everyone's attention span has gotten so short, but then at the same time, everyone is starting a podcast. So I'm a little confused. I'm a little confused at how podcasts are thriving. This episode is brought to you by Shopify, whether you're selling a little or a lot.

Shopify helps you do your thing, however you cha-ching. From the launch your online shop stage, all the way to the we just hit a million orders stage. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify's there to help you grow. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash special offer, all lowercase. That's shopify.com slash special offer.

Before I started mine, I was like, I don't think I deserve to have one because I don't listen to them. I felt the same way. But now I do listen to them because I'm like, what are they? Like, how are you guys filling an hour? What are you saying? I have to watch. But...

It is like fun. It is. I get, I get the appeal of a podcast just because it's so like conversational. I feel like some people just feel like they're, especially when it's like two people, I feel like you feel like you're a part of a conversation. Yeah. You know what I mean? I don't know. I like listening to them, especially if I'm like working out, I'll always like put a funny one on. But yeah.

yeah it did take me a while to come around to the podcasting thing right also like i'm not funny so i don't listen to mine and like giggles and i like i find you funny yes thank you so much i i like i'm cringing the fuck out every time i'm editing them i'm like why did i say that like that or why did i do that like that but you start to get desensitized i feel like when i used to not do social media and like i would hear a video clip of my voice i would like want to literally die yeah and now it's like i don't

It doesn't catch me out at all. You can't like care anymore. It becomes so... I feel like so many people have...

I don't know if people ever said this to you, but people used to be like, what gave you like the bravery to post? Like a lot of people are scared to post ever on social media. Mine was, I didn't think anyone was ever going to find it. So I was like, there was no bravery. I was like secret. But I don't know. Now it's like you do it so many times. You're just like, I don't even, I don't even like believe that it's me sometimes. I know what you mean. Like I'll watch back and I'm like, what? Yeah. I'll see like an edit on Twitter or something. I'm like,

It takes a second for it to even register in my brain that I'm watching myself. Like, probably can't be healthy. That's for our future selves to deal with. I mean, I've already been online now for like 10 years, which is crazy. You've been in two? Yeah.

Good luck out there. Thank you. It's fun. So, okay, we talked about relationships on here. Queer relationships specifically, I guess. But do you feel like, I know I watched your podcast episode you did. I think it was your first episode. You talked about sexuality. Oh, yeah.

And you talked about like the fear of like changing labels and how there can be like some stigma around that. I feel like that's so true and I feel like it's weird because we give so much grace to people who come out later in life, like go from being straight to being gay. We're like, oh my god, you're so brave. But if there's any opposite of that, I feel like there is some stigma and backlash. I feel like everyone's like, you're more likely to be met with, um,

I don't know, not hate because that's too intense, but, you know, something disappointment. Yeah. You know, people are like, oh, my God, we lost another one. And it's like, I don't know. It's not fair. I feel like we should be as accepting as like of queer people who date heteronormatively as we are of queer people who date homo, homo, homo, whatever. Anyway, I really know what I'm talking about over here. But you were like out as a lesbian. Were you did you identify as a lesbian when you were younger? Yeah.

Yes. I... I had nothing to, like, show me otherwise. Like, I had only dated girls and I, like, didn't... Like, men didn't, like, exist to me for, like, a very long time. Fair. Because, like...

I just assumed I was straight until it was very clear to me one day I wasn't. And then I was like questioning it for ages and I just never liked boys. Like I only saw girls and I was like so in love with this one girl that like I didn't care about anybody else, like not even other girls. And it just like went on like that for years and then it just made no sense to me that I would even be bi. I was like, I haven't even spoke to a guy in like six years. What am I doing? And then...

Yeah, it came like a fucking shock because I was always the person that was like, I can't say one thing and then go back. Yeah. Which is fucked up. You should be able to do that. No, it should be so much more fluid. Yeah. Although I think if I came out as straight or bi tomorrow, people might be like, what the fuck? But even I could do it if I wanted to. Yeah, of course. But it's, I don't know. For me, I was also like, I never wanted to tell my parents something and have them feel

have them maybe be like, "This is a phase," or, "You're gonna figure something else out," and then have to prove them right. Like, that was gonna piss me the fuck off. And ironically, that's exactly what I did. I, um, had been, like, obviously I had, I actually had my first girlfriend when I was 15. And, or my first, like, whatever, when I was 15, and

from that point I pretty much thought I was queer, like gay, like a full-on lesbian and I was like I'm never gonna tell my parents because what if I'm not and it was like my biggest fear

my mom ended up finding out whatever but i didn't tell my dad i never told him i told my dad that i like girls when i was 22 years old what wait no i was 21 i was about to turn 22 that's a long time into you liking girls also because you started at 15 terrified and he was starting to be like has this bitch never had a relationship meanwhile i've gone through four heartbreaks that's so sad i had never like i think he knew well he told me later he was like yeah bitch like duh um

And then I told him, I was like, "Hey, like, I, uh, you've probably noticed I don't like boys."

tell me why I met my boyfriend like three months after I was like of course like I feel like that the universe like needed me to like take that step to be like ahaha oh yeah you I wonder if there's anything to say about the fact that you were even scared that that label might change that like you maybe knew a little bit that I think so I think I was like really con because I am a I'm a physical learner I can't like strategy like I can't just think my way into like an answer

and I really had never like had that kind of an experience. Yeah. So I was like, I can't, I don't feel like I personally can be sure until like I've had that. Um,

Yeah, I feel like that's gotta be something. 'Cause I don't feel like when I was coming out, that wasn't, like, a fear I had, you know? Right, yeah. 'Cause I was like, "Oh, fuck." Obviously, like, and it's the same thing I tell my straight friends. Like, if you're scared that you like girls, like, straight people tend not to worry about it. And I should have just, like, applied that to my own life and been like, "The reason you're agonizing over, like, what label you are is because it's not straightforward." Like, you're not one thing or the other, you know?

So, but I was just, it's hard to see, like, logic when you're in it. Oh, my God. And you're, like, experiencing it. Also, when you're 21, 22, like, that's really young. I know. I think I'm appreciating that more now. I'm, like, I felt like I should have had everything figured out. But, like, what the fuck? No. Why would you? Just because you had experiences younger, too, I feel like maybe you thought you should know more. But it's, like, you shouldn't. No. No one should. Also, like, everything is so much more fluid now than...

I feel like like there are there's so much power in a label of just like making you know who your community is but there's also like

it can get so toxic if you let it control the narrative of your life. Like, you're like, oh, I have to be a lesbian. I have to wear these clothes, do these things. It's like, none of this is really that deep anymore. Yeah. But it really was deep. It was so deep. Oh my God. I wish that I could, like, speak with, like, 16-year-old me because, like, the amount of shit that was in her head about, like, even just, like, the fact that I used to dress exactly like you. Yeah.

Like that's so like I and because I was like the only queer one in my group of friends like that kind of gave me like a like a persona to fit into and they always used to say things about it and like I was like the lesbian and it was like in every aspect like any party we went to. It's literally your identity. Yeah like they would introduce me as their gay friend or their lesbian friend or like this is my man she's lesbian I'd be like I was not stoked. You're not stoked.

Like, I know, what if I'm not a lesbian, you guys? Could change. That's crazy that you met your boyfriend three months after you came out to your dad. It was something like that, yeah. But, like, quick. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. Of course. Of course. Do you feel like coming out, like, do you feel like dating men after then makes, do you feel like people don't think you're as queer that you're, when you're in, like, a straight relationship? Yeah.

Yes, but I also, I get it. Because when I was, like, struggling to accept the fact that I even liked girls, and, like, I would look at bisexual people and I would just be, like, jealous of them. And it doesn't make them less queer, but I was, like...

I'm jealous of the fact that you can have a boyfriend and a husband. And like, that was all I wanted. So I was like, we're not the same. Like, we are the same, but you have something I want and I physically cannot obtain. And it's not fair. So now that I'm like in a position where I'm like, okay, now I know I could have this experience and like have this walk of life. I do feel different about it, but...

It doesn't make you less queer. No, for sure. Because that part of your life is still 100% intact. But it's just like a different life experience. Yeah, totally. Also like...

Just being around, like, dating men. I don't even know, obviously, because it's been years. But, like, then you're also probably in more heteronormative, like, spaces, too, because you have a boyfriend who has guy friends who have probably girlfriends who have, you know what I mean? It's so fucking weird. It's so different. It's different. I can imagine. It's really weird. And, like, people have to fill me in on, like, no, this should make you concerned or, like, this should make you jealous or, like, this shouldn't fly. I'm like, why? Because, like, my ex-girlfriend, like,

you're never gonna tell your girlfriend she can't have like female friends i know what the and like they can have sleepovers and like yeah they can be naked together like i don't know like they can kiss i don't know she's just worse sex and go on dates though like you know it's so different it is like the lines are way more blurry in like a queer relationship just between friendships in general like and what friends you share with each other you know what i mean yeah the whole thing is different i can't even imagine i'm learning yeah

I'm like stressed out for you. Yeah, thanks. But also sounds, I don't know, I think I'm, part of me is envious also, especially going through like breakups and multiple big breakups within queer relationships because you do inevitably like kind of lose friends every time. Oh my God. Do you know what I mean? Because things get so mushed together and it's kind of impossible, even in the healthiest best breakup ever, it's like,

I don't really want to hang out with my ex-girlfriend that much. Yeah. Like, and I don't think she would want to hang out with me, you know? So it's like things get fucked up like that. And then you watch like a straight couple breakup and it's like, obviously the girls are taking the girls and the guys are taking the guys. Or it's very clear which friend is which friend.

And no one would ever be like, hey, we invited so-and-so. Because you wouldn't do that. With queer friend groups, you're like, of course, that's your friend too. We're all friends. And then you're like, but this is a miserable experience. This has happened to me recently. I don't miss that, I'll be honest. No. But it's nice because like,

I like that everyone knows each other, but also everyone knows each other. It's fun when it's fun and it's terrible when it's terrible. You're like, I would love some separation actually now. Yeah, some boundaries perhaps, but no. You don't get that. No, I've never even heard of them before. I wanted to ask you, do you feel, even though now you're kind of in a straighter world right this second, but do you feel like the queer scene in UK is different than here?

Have you ever really been that immersed in it, do you feel? I haven't been immersed in the queer scene here. Well, I've barely ever been here. Welcome. Yeah, thanks. I don't know, I need to check it out. But like, I don't know. I wonder if it's universal. People were saying, people who were asking me were saying it is really different, but I know the influencer world is really different here versus the UK. Do you feel that way? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Which one do you like better? Partake. Partake.

In either of them. But you really do. You are like, you're like full influencer now, I feel. Yeah, but I don't feel like I necessarily am in those social circles. So I feel like it's...

I don't feel like it's such a life experience for me, which I kind of want to do more of it and just like check it out. But I don't know. It's definitely, I don't enjoy the London one. That's for sure. Like I went out a couple times when I started doing everything else and then I was like, absolutely fucking not. I'm never going out again. Well, the thing that I always thought was weird when I was friends with, you know, Rose and Rosie?

I fucking love Rose and Rose. Me too. I love them so much. They used to talk to me about the UK like influencer scene and how they're almost like treated like traditional talent, like traditional celebrities there because in LA, influencers definitely feel like influencers. Like they're like a sub tier of like A-list Hollywood, but that's because we're in Hollywood. So if you're going to an event, like there's a chance that

Billie Eilish and Jacob Lordy and like real like a list talent will be there versus they were saying in the UK It's a much smaller. Yes, like a scene of even like the celebrities that you guys have there. That's definitely true actually Yeah, so then influencers are almost like a list celebrities, right? I don't know like I've never dabbled enough to like really understand just because I'm bad at that stuff but like I

It's like influencers have their own space here. Yeah. Whereas in London, it's not. It's kind of like a mesh. Yeah. Yeah. It's like everyone's in one place. You just shove them. Because it's just smaller in general too, I feel. Yeah, it's tiny. Right? And like anyone that becomes successful like in the acting world, the music world, they leave. No one stays. Yeah, that's so true. They're here. They're here. They're literally here. Yeah. I know. There's no point really staying in London unless you love the rain.

I kind of love the rain. Do you really? I know, which makes no sense because I'm here. It's been raining a lot here though. I know. It's been crazy. It rained more this year than it has in like the last two years already. Really? Yeah. And it's only April? Yeah. Cute. Fun fact about the weather. I saw that on TikTok. It might not be true. I will say anything I see from TikTok, like it is. It is a fact. Yeah, obviously. And unless you're going to double check, like that's your problem now. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Like, I told you what I knew. I'm going to repeat the same misinformation. Exactly. And that's how that works. Do you believe in marriage? Believe in it? Yeah, like, do you think you'll get married? I don't give a fuck about it personally. Really? Yeah. Like, I don't. You don't want kids, do you? No.

I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. Like, I know that I have a big, like, maternal bone. Mm-hmm. But I don't know if I want my own kids. Yeah. And I feel like because I spent from age 15 to 22...

just thinking that I was only ever gonna be with women, I became very attuned to the idea that I may not have my own kids, or like would have to go about it some other way. And I never really loved the idea of IVF. I don't know why. I just like, I read about it and I was like, I don't wanna do that. I don't know why. I was just like, if I'm in this position, I would rather...

I've always thought I would get old and gain a load of money and life experience and then foster. And then it's like, you help someone, but it's also less commitment. But you actually have the facilities to do something. So true. I don't know if I...

I mean, you're also 23, so... Also, I'm 23. You have all the time in the world to figure it out. I would... I mean, I want to do the selfish thing and just see what it would look like. Yeah. Duh. Fair. But... I feel like we have AI for that, though, too. When I broke up with my ex...

It was so traumatic and I was like spiraling. And my best friend was like so worried about me. She was like, why don't you just do something fucking selfish and reach out to her ex? Because you need someone that's gone through the same thing. True. And her ex and me, we didn't have like the best relationship. Like there was shadiness. Like when you were together. Yeah, it was just like...

a weird situation and I was like, "fuck it, like, I actually have nothing to lose." And so I messaged her and she was like, "I so hear you, come hang out with me and my girlfriend and our friends and like, just come." So I went and I hung out with them and like, they were in this big queer friend group and it was like the best experience and we're still friends to this day. Shut up. Did it like, validate your, your like, feelings of... Yeah, like...

yes and just seeing someone that had like got through her i was like okay i'm gonna like live yeah and um someone that would like believe me because like the biggest thing was like no one believed me everyone was like she would never have done this and i was like oh she would have like yes she fuck and everyone was like no you're crazy like everyone everyone told me i was crazy i was like guys she's evil you don't understand and everyone like no one believed me and i was like okay what's like you guys what's like something evil she would do

She like I hate talking shit about her because I genuinely just think that she is struggling like yeah, yeah, but she I've just never experienced someone like her like she was So it was it was like having a kid. Have you ever been in that kind of really? You're the sole caretaker. Yeah, I know. I know what you mean 100% Yeah, and it was just

crazy, like the manipulation was on like another level and I was so in it, like I couldn't... And when I... So when I got out, I was like, "No one's gonna believe me because she's so good at this." Like she's got everyone like wrapped around her pinky finger.

And I tried to tell people, like, "She did this to me and she did this to me and this is why I broke up with her." And then she went around, like, telling people that-- - Oh, doing that-- - Because-- Yeah, she's like, "Because of the fact that I broke up with her," she was like, "Now I'm really depressed and now I'm gonna, like, hurt myself." And I was-- Everyone was like, "You're evil because look what you did to her." And I'm like,

Like, you don't just break up with someone out of nowhere, by the way. What the fuck? What? And it was just, like, this crazy spiral of, like, what is going, why are you saying this stuff? Like, I don't understand. And no one believed me. It was, like, the craziest. I actually do, like, in hindsight, think people did believe me and just didn't care. And that's fine, you know? Whatever. That sucks. I don't know if that's better or worse. I don't know either. But it's, like, rationally, I look back and I'm like,

There's no way. Yeah. There's, like, no way people didn't see what was going on there. Yeah. And, like... But also, you were young, too, right? I feel like we have some mentality when we're younger that, like, relationships should be that crazy. Yeah. Like, love is crazy. You should be miserable all the time. Yeah. Like, the whole, like...

Like, when's, like, the emotional intensity, I feel like, is a lot more normal in queer relationships. Yeah. Like, it's not, like, even now I see the same trope of, like, you whole lesbians and, like, everything moves so quickly. And I hate it because I'm like, guys, it's not healthy. It's not healthy. No one should ever be saying I love you within.

Yeah. Even a year, maybe, like, let alone a one week. I'm like, what is she gonna say? No, it is, it's so hard, I feel like, it's so hard with lesbian relationships to be able to tell the difference between love bombing and, like, u-hauling and what is, like, what's happening organically and what is just, like, an overwhelming connection. Also, two women together, like,

I feel like there's like a safety there that you don't get with men maybe. It's so hard for me to ever talk about anything relating to men because I'm like, I don't know. I'm not that one. I don't talk to any. Good for you. I have one friend and he's bi. So, you know. Close enough. Yeah. I think I talked about him in my last episode too. I'm glad they're doing some like gardening over there. Yeah, yeah.

Hopefully they won't hear it. Yeah. But no, you're right. Like, it's hard, like, because you're so, like, you wouldn't ever have, like, a qualm about becoming friends with a girl super quickly. And girls do that. Like, you meet in a bathroom at a party and you're best friends and, like, me, me, me, me. Totally. And it's so easy. And then you're on a date with one and, like...

the last day i went on with a girl we spent like three days together classic yeah like and that was just like normal i don't know actually i posted a tiktok about that one and it was like i was still living at university and it was like when that it was like such a micro channel it was like red flags in my room and then i panned around i was like the girl who hasn't left for like three days and it was like one of my first tiktoks that ever like got views and i was like kind of embarrassed because she saw it and i was like what

But yeah, she was insane. We met, went for dinner, and then she stayed over. All was good, all was well. And then the next day I was kind of like, okay, bye. Yeah. Nope. She was like, I have to go home. Do you want to come with me? I was like, no, not really. And she was like, no, please, please, please, please, please come with me. I was like, okay. We drove like an hour and a half to her home. No.

I met her mom. What? I went into her family home. What? Uh-huh. And then she came back with me to my flat. Were you prepared for that? No. Okay.

okay and like i'm just really bad at like letting it be known like hey get the out my house like i can't i if i hint to you and you don't get it i guess we're just gonna hang out a little bit literally me i'm like i guess are you moving in yeah you can stay you can stay if i like give if i tell anyone anything about my feelings and i feel like they didn't catch it i'm like

Never trying that again. Yeah, same. It's hard! It's so hard. I really need someone that's like emotionally intelligent because I won't say it twice. Yeah, no, same. One of the things I loved most about being in a long-distance relationship, because I was in one for a while, was the balance of life where there was like, you were for- I was almost forced to be really present in my own life because she wasn't there.

And then when we were together, we were forced to be really present with each other. So there's like kind of something beautiful about a long distance relationship. Although I think the toxic part is then you can also like have rose colored glasses and envision that person to be whoever you want them to be. You know, when they're not around, it's just like, you are this perfect, beautiful person. And then sometimes when you get together and you're together for a long time, you're like, oh my God, I forgot you do that thing that annoys me. And you do that thing that annoys me. And you do that thing. That's true. Yeah.

but it is nice like coming together and like you know you've got a set amount of time so you really like treasure it yeah that's really nice yeah it helps you appreciate it in its own little and it's like makes it really intense too yeah it's like but it you also run the risk of like staying in that like honeymoon phase for way too long and then you're three years deep and you're like i don't like you you've just moved in and actually like i don't even

I don't even know you actually. Yeah, like I'm even, my best friend is long distance and we always have been like since we were like 12 we met online but she lives near me but not near enough to like see her every week and we like lived together for the first time two years ago. How did that go? I love her. I would never live with her again. Yeah. I was like damn like I really did not know this about you. Like just the way you are. Yeah.

Just something about who you are. Yeah. Kind of bothering me. Yeah. That is scary about relationships too, like actual romantic relationships. But I feel like that even if you're around someone, I don't, have you ever lived with a partner? Very, yes. Yeah. My ex-girlfriend. Okay. We did a little bit of lockdown together. Oh, I've done that before. That was bad. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the last time I lived with a partner too. Would you do it again? Ever? Well, after the first... I lived with my first girlfriend and I thought to myself like... It felt like it really streamlined that relationship. Like made the pace of it way faster. Right. Because we were... And we were young. I was probably your age. I just felt like...

it maybe that relationship would have worked better if we hadn't had to live together but we lived together for like we had to live together because like money and travel like we didn't have enough money to not live together so after that I just told myself if I can afford not to live with a partner I'm not going to for as long as possible fair enough for as long as possible and then yeah and then COVID I had to for a second but that was technically my ex-girlfriend oh

Which is even worse, I would say, than living with your partner. Did you like it? Oh, she was your ex when you lived together? Oh. The whole time. That's so gay. That's so gay. It was so gay. I mean, it was fine. It was like exactly the Julia Michaels and JP Sachs song. Like, if the world was ending, you'd come over, right? Oh. It was just that in real life happening. And we did. We came over. But...

Did you like the experience at all? Like, were there any pluses to it? Or did you just hate living together? I hated it. Got it. I hope she doesn't watch this. I don't know if she watches you. One of my exes does. Hey. Hey. Miss you.

but no i i i didn't enjoy it because she was unemployed and i was a key worker through most of the pandemic or like through the part where it hit and like a year after what were you doing i worked in like a little farm cute yeah um and so i would like go to work and my shifts were like 10 hours and i would come back and she would just be there always nowhere to go really no and we were living in like um

she was she had like a pretty rich family and so they had like their main family house and then they had a couple like little buildings on their property that we made into like a little house so we were living with her family but we were like separate from them because i was a worker and her mom was like unwell yeah that's difficult it wasn't my favorite thing in the world and just like i was too young as well yeah like know how to do that we didn't have like our kitchen was like

like it didn't function and like there was like rat piss everywhere and like it was like romantic it was rat piss everywhere followed by it was romantic yeah yeah like it was a nice like i look back and i'm like oh it was sweet like we had like she had like 20 cats and like we just like had a little porch and like she lived in the countryside like it was cute but um

but it wouldn't do it again oh but would you live with a partner again obviously at some point i'm sure yeah at some point but like in a house with more than like one room yeah ideally same yeah and like also now doing the work i do i i don't know like i would need a lot more space yeah that's it's it is so bizarre because you really if you work from home

I mean, do we even work from, what do we do? I don't know. How do we do this? I don't know. So confusing. But yeah, you definitely need your own personal space. I've learned over the years. But yeah, also, I don't know. Like, I also don't know when do I even want to live with a partner? Because I feel like I'd want to live with a partner before I married a partner. Damn, you got to try it. Yeah. But I also feel like,

Being gay you end up having so many sleepovers anyway, like I can pretty much picture what this would be like, you know Yeah, that's true. Yeah, like I've had relationships where we don't live together, but like we might as well, right? It's like that's the vibe. Yeah, especially like flip-flopping back and forth Do you feel like you typically like to stay at your house or do you like to stay at your partner's house?

I... This is, like, my biggest toxic trait. I love staying at someone else's house. To the point, if they don't have...

like a like a life that i can go and like what you know like i've had relationships where we're in my world and i've had relationships where i'm in their world yeah i way prefer the ones where i'm in there really yeah like and now i'm learning to manage it and be like hey like i actually have a life and a job and i need to like continue living mine but i love when they have a world i can go into i feel so much more involved than like so interesting i wonder why i feel like i'm the opposite really i feel like i have a world and i like my world i guess

I think I'm getting better. Am I? I think I'm getting, I like to be both. I just think that the one thing that I really, really hope happens in my future is keeping my worlds like a little bit separate. Like having crossover but never having everything amashed together again because

I've done it multiple times and it never goes well. Every time I'm like, what the fuck? Why did that happen again? But it's just so hard. I think, yeah, but I, it's nice to like,

go be like a side character rather than like the main character when you're bringing someone around your friends and stuff and you have to be the one that's like it's like being the host of a podcast versus being a guest of a podcast you're just hosting all the time I'd like to guest please yeah I know it's like it's I don't know why it's so hard to find balance like between two worlds it's so I feel like it the older you get too it gets

I don't know if it's getting easier or harder because now I have way more of like a life, you know, at 32 than at 23. Like my life was very like chaotic and now I've like had some of the same friends for like 10 years, you know, versus, I don't know. I feel like when I was 23, I was, my friend group was changing all the time. Right. Do you feel that way? Your friend group? Or is it the same? I'm very consistent. Okay.

But I'm trying to meet new people. But my core friends have been the same person as I can remember. Yeah. If you were in any world ever to move to L.A., who do you think you would like hang out with? I have no idea. I don't know. I'm panicking. Yeah. I don't like I don't know.

This is why I'm going to Coachella to like meet people. Really? I hate Coachella. Like I don't. Have you been before? No. And I already know. I fucking hate it. I feel like you could like it. Who are you going with? My best friend Millie from Manchester in the UK. Fuck yeah. I don't know if anyone from Manchester has even ever gone to Coachella. She may be the first. Actually she's from Sheffield. But um. Which is worse. Sorry Millie. But then yeah we're going with guests. Okay. So we'll have like the house. Yeah. And it'll be like. Plenty.

pleasant yeah but I'm really just going to like meet people I don't enjoy heat or live music or walking or having to wear outfits or oh my god you're gonna love Coachella it's

everything you just said. I'm like, I'm worried about you. You can definitely make friends though. That's, yeah. Yeah. And Millie is like so social. We used to, when we were younger, she's straight as they come, which is crazy to me. Millie sounds like a straight girl name. I know. Doesn't it? It's so sweet. She would hate that. I'm sorry.

Yeah, it does. Like she is actually, maybe she's going to get offended by this. Is she? No, she is. I think we've been through this a hundred times, but you don't have to stay any one way. We'll accept you. You can change tomorrow. We'll accept you in this group. Don't worry. She and I used to

obsessively watch Rose and Rosie and I like introduced her I was like trying to like soft launch the fact that I like girls look at these people they're really funny and she loved them and we still like whenever we like hang out in person we'll like get together and watch their old videos from when they were like first dating I guess they like film their second date ever they're crazy they did didn't they was it the one where they were like on the floor I think they're like on the side of a bed or something or maybe it is the floor they've got like a blue

wall the lighting is really bad it's really bad yeah i need to rewatch it oh my god there's certain videos on youtube that i've watched probably like oh yeah 500 comfort videos for sure you had one that was mine i used to listen to it as if it was on like fucking spotify what like on repeat it was the letter to you one do you not like that video no no i do like it oh my god that video used to fuck me up i would literally sit there and sob that's so sweet no i still like that video but i think i

it's just hard i look so little when i watch it yeah you do because i re-watched it before coming on the podcast i was like oh my god i know but that was also the era of clothing where i was like yeah it's definitely the era of clothing i've got my ripped jeans and my i mean not that much has changed honestly i'm not evolving like the jeans got back yeah yeah they're looser yeah that's crazy though i love rose and rosie okay wait back to coachella i need to

process you going somewhere where you're gonna be miserable the whole time. Do you get to wear gas? Yeah. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Are you gonna go to like Revolve Fest or any of those things? I think so. That seems fun. Yeah. I haven't been drunk in the longest time because I tried to stop drinking and so I'm excited to just like go crazy and let loose and be stupid. It's like hard to even get drunk at Coachella because it's so hot that you're sweating but you will.

Don't take that. I'll find a way. Yeah, you will be fine. I really wanted to go to Coachella this year. Why aren't you going? Well, I'm going to Canada now instead. Do you know my friend Vanessa? She was in some of those pictures. She's like, I don't know. My friend is opening for Noah Khan on tour. Do you know Jensen McRae? She's like a TikToker. She sings that song that's like about Massachusetts and her favorite Batman is Christian Bale because...

That was the worst explanation ever. Anyway, she's opening for Noah Khan and my friend Kevin is playing guitar. That's so cool. I think that will be... That's way fucking better than Coachella. Yeah. Way better. I think it'll be better than Coachella. But I feel like you will make friends there. Are you looking for like gay friends? Straight friends? Any friends? I'll take anything at this point. Like influencer friends? Anything. Anything. Okay. Anything would be appreciated. I just like...

Yeah, like I love being alone. I say it all the time, but that I have my limits and I have been alone for like three weeks. I'm like, I'm going to go fucking insane. Like I, for transparency, you're getting a weird version of me right now because I did not sleep last night. I've got to the point where I'm just like, I feel more at night and I have to stay up and like do witchcraft. And so I was up all night and I'm like,

And I'm on like my second Celsius of the day and these things don't sit well with me. So I'm already like, yeah, I know. Sam, you have one too. I know. Why is everyone drinking them all the time? I don't know. Cause they're like, they're hard. Like they make me feel like I'm hungover. Oh my God. They make my like face twitch when I talk to people and I'm like, can they see that? Like, I feel like I'm like secretly drunk in public when I shouldn't be. But like,

I just think they give me a little bit of uh I don't know like like they almost give me like the same level of confidence that being drunk does I'm like I know like not at all but like it makes me more like I want to have a conversation yeah that's good as opposed to not not wait what witchcraft are you doing I need to know

So lately I've been listening to the audiobook version of The Law of Attraction, which is actually like, I've read parts of the book, but the audiobook is scary. Have you ever listened to it? Because she's like channeling this spirit called Abraham the whole time and she's talking like him. And it's like a weird. So I've been like getting back into my like little manifestation grind. Fuck yeah. And I've just been like sitting up, like chanting things. No. It's like, it's not pleasant. Like it is.

I was up all night. What are we manifesting? I don't... Like, just... Just, like, a feeling. Like, nothing, like... I don't have any specifics at the moment. I'm just trying to get back into a place where I'm, like... I feel good about myself. So I'm trying to, like...

convince myself through lies. Through lies and witchcraft that you feel good about yourself. And the only way I can like get that emotional response is if I'm up really late. Like it doesn't happen for me. Really? Yeah. Like at night it's so exciting for me. I feel like I get that a little bit. I always end up editing my podcast until like the second it comes out, which is at 3 a.m. But I feel like I don't get good at editing until like 2 20 a.m.

Yeah. And I'm like, holy shit, it needs to be up in like five seconds. Why do you do it at 3am? Like, why does it upload at that hour? Oh, because it's 6am East Coast and I'm trying to get people who are commuting to work. Oh, clever. Interesting. That's what I've been told to do. Okay. But I don't even know what time that is. What time do you upload? Midnight. Midnight. Midnight LA time.

Perfect. 7am UK time. So it's the same? Yeah. Kinda. Kinda, yeah. Yeah. But you don't edit it? But you, did you used to? Mm-hmm. I used to do everything myself and now I have an editor who does it for me, but... Does it make your life better? Yeah.

I still have to go through it and like pick out things I don't want. So I'm like, which we said earlier, like that's the longest part, like going through and finding the timestamps. I'm like, oh, life is so hard. Whereas if I'm just like sat on my laptop editing it and like cutting, I'm like, yeah, it's quicker. Yeah. And it's kind of fun. Like once you get in it, I know like in it. It's so true. I listened to mine in two times speed. So I literally listened to my voice like, and I'm like, whoa, it's like a whole system now.

Anyway, no one cares about that, but us, probably. Okay. I'm jealous you're going to Coachella, and I hope that you make so many friends there. And if you want gay friends, you can be friends with... I have gay friends. Oh, thank you. You can have them. You can have them. Do you have a type when it comes to, like, masc femme? Like, who I'm attracted to? I mean, I feel like you like femmes, right? Yeah. Just, like, girly girls. If I could find it, that's usually my type.

Yeah. Fair enough. They're pretty. It makes it so much easier because there's like four of them that exist. Like there's barely any femme lesbians, I feel like. You think? Yeah. Do you think there's a lot? I've never dated one. But then I'm tight. Good point. Good point. Good point. I feel like that's why also my last two people I've dated never dated a girl before. Because they were so femme? Yeah. And didn't know. The girl I'm dating now

how do i i'll show you after this but she's so girly i feel like a lot of like okay one relationship i had when we got together she was like very like neutral but probably more feminine by the time we broke up not that was a boy i was like what happened i was so like it's i don't know it like i didn't not like it no but that definitely happens i feel like that

I feel like I'm still feminine myself, but I've definitely, from the beginning of coming out to now, gotten way, way, way, way less girly. Do you think?

I just think I'm like feminine. Like I like if you like meet me, I'm so girl I feel. Right. Do you know what I mean? But my outfits and my clothing options and then my hair got shorter. The hair is everyone's like so obsessed with the length of my hair. I love your hair. That's so nice. People go back and forth. My DMs are crazy. People will just all the time. But it's I've realized more and more.

So many people identify with me, like, but, like, also, like, I am, like, I am them, you know? They're not just, like, like, when people are wearing the exact same outfits as me or, like, cutting their hair like me or whatever. It's, like, because they want to be...

be me like they don't want to be my friend they don't want to oh and there's like this like intense like people like are like really associate deep some people no i i see i feel like if you're shannon beverage fan that is how you say shannon beverage you both don't know how to say each other's names yeah um you go in

I think there's just a moment where you're like, I don't, I can't even explain it. I just think I can see it so much when I cut my hair because it affects people so deeply. Like where they're like, grow it back out, grow it back out. And I'm like, is that your, it's your own internalized homophobia. But it's like, cause they're like thinking of their own hair. I swear to God. It's like, they don't even care. Why do, why would anyone care about what color, what length my hair is? But what do they think it changed? They think it made you more masculine? I think they think it's like less feminine.

It's not. I agree. Girly girl's out here with short haircuts too. Yeah, what the fuck? Yeah, what? I don't know. It's its own thing. I feel like long straight hair is almost... Gayer. Gayer. It's way gayer. Literally, we call it gayer.

Gay hair. If you have like just perfectly straight hair and you wear it straight down and you wear a hat or if it's in a ponytail all the time, that's gay hair. Yeah. It is. That's such a good word. Yeah. 100%. Like you can cut it or style it or do something. I mean, right now I'm going through a really intense hat phase. I'm very... Like you've always had a hat.

I have. It's a 10 year long. It's a long phase. So it's kind of half my life. No, I just go through like really intense phases where I like can't take my hat off. Like I will literally be in bed. What are you hiding under there? Nothing crazy. Like smudging.

You will never know. No, I don't know. It's like, it's literally, I think it's honestly like an OCD type thing. Really? Yeah. Cause, and I'll also get like, wear the same outfit, exact same outfit. And I get like stuck. Like I also have ADHD. So it's like, I'll eat the same food. Oh, same. Every day for like, until it's the grossest thing I've ever eaten in my life. That's me in my hat right now. We're in like a deep relationship. The same one every day? Different. Okay. They're rotating. Yeah.

thank god but i do i mean there's only a few i love it i'm gonna take it off soon soon i need to go get my hair done i'm lying i've been saying that for 10 years but no i will take it off what do you have anything to like look out for just your podcast like anything coming out

No. Okay. Weekly. Your weekly podcast. What day? Mondays. Okay. Okay, guys. I hope you enjoyed this video. This video? This podcast episode. You can follow Madeline on all her socials will be in the link below. And she posts her podcast every Monday. So check it out. Right? Yeah. I have nothing else to say. Thanks for having me. Okay. Come back sometime. Okay. Bye. Okay. Bye.