Karma, Being Shameless and Glass Closets with JoJo Siwa
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Okay. Hi, guys. Welcome back to X's and O's. I'm your host, Shannon Beveridge. Thanks for joining me for another week and another episode. I can't believe I think this is episode 25, which is absolutely crazy. We have not missed a week in 25 weeks. I feel like people didn't know I could do it, but look at me go. And when I say people, I mean myself. But

Look at me go. Look at you go, Shannon. If you follow me on Instagram, then you may have seen I was teasing that something was dropping on Friday. I had some technical difficulties. Imagine that. I think if there are technical difficulties to be had, I will have them. I'm like, please, sir. Can I have some more? Can I have some more?

technical difficulties. I love them. I have them all the time in any way I possibly can. And I did on the drop of my friend of Dorothy collection. And yeah, so my website wouldn't accept any payments. So obviously it did not work.

It is live now. If you're watching this, then my Friend of Dorothy full collection is live right now. And I'm so, so, so, so stoked. I know a lot of you. I'm just going to explain it for anyone who doesn't know. Basically, the hat I'm wearing right now, I designed almost like a year ago now, probably. I can't remember exactly when it came out the first time, but...

If you're not familiar, Friend of Dorothy is a way that queer people used to tell other queer people they were gay before being out and open was really an option. And the reason I made the hat in the first place is because I personally do not identify with the rainbow and like the way that it looks. Obviously, I identify with the rainbow all for it, all for the flag.

But just like in outfits and clothing, it's not really my style. I don't really like I don't wear a lot of color in general. So I wanted to create something that would queer flag to people without it being like a rainbow. It's pride. It's pride related clothing that isn't fully rainbow attire.

You guys really liked this hat. I've sold it twice. Now it's going to be out again, which is awesome. So if you missed it the other times for all the people who've DM me in the past, you can buy it now. But also you can buy a bunch of other stuff. There are sweatshirts, there are crewnecks, there are long sleeve shirts, there are t-shirts, there are shorts and carabiners.

So if you really want a queer flag, there are carabiners for you, which I'm so excited for. I think it's so fun. And I think the carabiners are also awesome because it's like a lower price point. So I'm hoping that anyone and everyone can afford to get one if you really want it. There's something there for you. And I'm so excited. I'm just in general, I'm really stoked. I'm really so...

happy with the reception to this design when I made it and like the concept. And yeah, I just want to keep making things that are in this similar vein also, like this vibe of queer flagging without the rainbow. So people can clock you when you're out and about, but you can also feel safe in a way because it's kind of a, if you know, you know thing. I think that's like a cool little, I don't know. It's like a little inside thing.

insider information situation. So I hope if you like the hat, you'll check it out. Check out all the things. I'll have them on the screen if you're watching. But if you're just listening, you can go to my website. NowThisIsLiving.shop, I think is what it is. But yeah, it'll be in the link below also. So if you want to look,

I'm so proud of it. I'm so happy. I'm so stoked. So I hope you'll check it out. Also, it's all a pre-sale. So if you buy it today, it will take time before it gets to you. And I just want to mention that it's also a new distributor. I'm working with a new company. I'm like fully collabing with this company. We're like working together. I'm so stoked. They're called Terminal. It's queer owned, which I fucking love. You guys know I love that. And I'm honestly, I'm like building out like a very...

gay team, like queer woman team, which is awesome. My manager's a lesbian. My merch now is owned by a lesbian. My

agent is gay. Like we have queerness in and around every part of the business that I'm working on. And that is just like my dream come true. I fucking love working with gay people. I love working with gay women too. It's awesome. It's really, really awesome. Um, and I should note that if you bought my merch before, this is the first time I'm last merch drop I did for the podcast. I

Before that, I used to send everything out all by myself. The last few things I've done. Now I have this new company. So if you had any issues with your order in the past, the last thing, it did not go perfectly, seamlessly. Great. This will be perfectly, seamlessly amazing. So if you want to purchase any of the Friend of Dorothy stuff, you are in good hands. I am in good hands. My business is in good hands. Finally. I'm so happy. Please, please check it out. Please. Okay.

Okay, quickly, mental health check. My mental health, again, still good. Rocking and rolling and summer's coming and I'm so happy. I think for so many people, I know for myself, the warmer weather does wonders, wonders, wonders for my mental health. And like just the sun and the sun setting later. Wow, it's like a game changer. So I'm hoping we're just going to keep

Rising up. It's going to keep getting better. Keep getting better. It really does get better. Being gay, being alive, it can get better, y'all. Don't, don't knock it till you try it. And the last thing I want to talk about before this week's episode is...

is I just want to acknowledge that this may be a controversial guest to have on the podcast. If you're watching this, it is Tuesday. The episode comes out on Wednesday. I've posted a teaser so people know that Jojo's the guest. I know that Jojo is a controversial guest based off the comments that I'm getting right now. I just want to let you know that my intention with this podcast is just to have conversations

Well, my intention with this podcast is to create a safe space to have conversations about queer relationships and sex. And I am so happy and blessed that I have the opportunity to do that. And I'm stoked that I have the ability to reach out to people like Jojo, who are huge people. She's a mega celebrity. They're talking about her on SNL, and she was sitting in my bed having a conversation for all of you. If...

It's not your cup of tea. You don't have to watch this week's episode. And I just hope that you will... If you do decide to watch...

Be kind, just be kind. It's like, so it's really not that hard. And when I say be kind, I don't mean you can't have feedback and you can't have an opinion. You can have an opinion. You can have, you can talk about whatever you want to talk about, but you can do it in a way that is kind. And yeah, if you, I don't understand how that's not possible. That's very possible. You can do it.

you can do it. And if you have nothing kind to say, and if your opinion is just like just to add noise or to be like unkind, just don't do it, please. Let's be kind. Okay. Also, if you don't like the song Karma, you're lying. There, I said it. With that being said, enjoy this week's episode. Thanks, Jojo, for coming on. Have a good week, everybody.

Happy hump day. Also, huge, huge shout out to Hinge for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. Love you guys so much. Thank you.

Okay, hi guys, my name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome back to X's and O's. Today I have the most iconic guest ever, Jojo Siwa. That is not true. It is so true, no. That is not true. You have had way more iconic people laying right here. You have had way more. I'm so happy you're here. You guys, I'm sure you know Jojo Siwa, but Jojo, you... I don't. Tell me who she is. I mean, we're still getting to know ourselves every day, right? True. Yeah. I'm obsessed with karma.

I'm obsessed. Also, I don't know if this is bad, but Kat played me a snippet of your new music too. Oh God. I wonder which one she played you. So good. What is it called? Guilty. Yep. Yep. It's so good. I'm so excited. Wait for the video for that one.

for that one. When is it coming out? That one won't be up for a second. It's not next. Next we're putting out... I haven't talked about this yet, but whatever. I don't care. Next we're putting out one called Choose Your Fighter. And that one will come out like end of May, top of June. Okay. And then I would say like...

It's projected end of June, but I think it'll be top of July. Okay, cool. For the big dog. Are you doing anything for Pride? Like performances and stuff? Yeah, I actually am going to Pittsburgh Pride, London Pride, and Chicago Pride. Hell yeah. And LA Pride. I just got booked for LA Pride. Okay, you're going to be everywhere. I'm going to explode. I'm so happy for you. That's so awesome. Praise for impact. People were freaking out about your performance. That was in Miami, right?

Yeah, that was Miami Pride. That was wild. I didn't really know what to expect because, I mean, it was my first thing out of the gate since being a kid performer. And so I, you know, I had my expectations from when I was a kid, but I didn't I didn't know how many people went to Pride. I didn't know how it worked if they came for my performance, if they came for the whole day. Like, I didn't know anything.

And so whatever, I go out on stage. I do my thing. I can only see to people. There is no break in people. But I still I don't think these numbers are as crazy as they were. But I get off stage and this guy comes up to me. He's like, you don't know who I am, but I am the president of Miami Pride. He's like, this is my event. I put all this on. And my mom was like, talk to him, Jojo. He has something to tell you. And I was like, oh, OK, OK, OK. And I was like, nice to meet you. You know what I mean?

And I was like, "Thank you so much for having me. This was unreal. So happy to be my first performance." And he was like, "You have no idea."

He said, your performance was the highest capacity we've ever had. No way. And I was like, no way. You're lying to me. He's like, I'm not lying to you. And he's like, I want to tell you how many people were here, but like, you're not going to believe it. And I was like, tell me. And it was 55,000. Shut the fuck up. There's no way. That's crazy. I couldn't believe it. Is that the biggest you've ever performed to? That's the biggest I've ever performed to. I did...

an arena tour and so those the biggest of those crowds got were 17 000 18 000 which is still a time i mean yeah it's a couple it's just a few but no 55 000 people once is i mean that was it was nutty like i i just remember i didn't really know how to feel after the performance i was kind of numb

And then I just started sobbing. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. Also, I feel like the reception to that performance was awesome. People were like really, really proud of you. Thank you. It was exactly what I wanted it to be. You know what I mean? I wanted people to talk about it. I wanted people to be like, what is she doing? I wanted people to just

word of mouth i mean people are definitely talking about you i feel like okay huge shout out to hinge for sponsoring this episode of x's and o's i appreciate y'all so so much as you know x's and o's is a podcast about queer relationships and sex what better way to find your next relationship than hinge the app that is designed to be deleted

In 2022, Hinge launched its LGBTQ plus prompts with the support of GLAAD. And now they have a list of questions that you can answer and put right on your profile and immediately start conversation about your queerness, about your journey, about yourself that hopefully will spark love.

Love y'all. Love is awesome. If I were building my profile, I might use the prompt. I feel proudest when, especially with the pride coming up right around the corner. Can you believe it's almost June? What? Where?

huh? Where did the year go? And my answer to that question would be, I feel proudest when I am out with my gay friends, just being ourselves, doing our thing, no matter what that is. It could be at a farmer's market. It could be at a restaurant. It could be anywhere. But when we're just like being openly queer and people are perceiving that and there's like no shame and we're just being ourselves, that's when I feel proudest. And Pride is a great time to do that too. I can't wait to go to some Pride events.

Some pride parades. Who's going? Where will you be? I'll be at some. Reminder again, download Hinge. You can click the link in my bio to directly download Hinge. And I would really appreciate it if you click the link. Then, yeah, they'll know that you came from me, which is awesome. Go find your love. Good luck. You can do it. Literally, I feel like I can't go on like TikTok and not see someone saying something about you. Making a cake of my face or just something. How are you? I'm good.

How am I? I'm good. No, I'm good. I've definitely gone through my phases of being okay, being not okay. I'm good. I'm chilling. I'm happy. I'm working a lot right now. We're working on what's coming up next.

And it's fueling my fire. You know, I got to remember that I asked for this. I asked for people to talk. I didn't care if it was good talk. I didn't care if it was bad talk, but I wanted people to talk. And it's working. I mean, it's for sure working. People are talking. But I also am like...

I feel like people do not remember that you're 20 years old. For sure, no. Like, I really don't think they do, which is crazy because I feel like for so long, everyone was kind of like almost like infantilizing you, like being like you were like 15, even though you were 18. But now you're 20 and people are like, why is JoJo acting like you're 20? She's 20. You're 20. They made a joke on SNL the other night. Yeah, I did see that. Yeah, and they made fun of me for three and a half minutes, but I thought it was hilarious. And also like,

The biggest fucking honor to be made fun of on SNL. Like, that's an honor. I mean, yeah, totally. I'll take it. But, and also, I feel like, I mean, yeah, I guess it does, it feels like making fun of you for sure, right? It's...

But it was like, I'm like, is it endearing at all? Like, I kind of thought it was, some of it is sweet and nice. It's the fact that they're sitting in a meeting going, what can we do this week? And somebody said, why don't we do a JoJo Siwa skit in the SNL fucking boardroom? Yeah. And it fucking worked too. The thing is, is like everything that, anything that is like touching you,

You've got like, what is it? The Midas touch or whatever? You know, people have said that to me since I was 11. They've been like, everything you touch turns to gold. And I'm like, thank you. But I work really hard for that. No, it's deserved. It's deserved. It's not just like, obviously, it's not like...

I feel like you're the smartest person online. - Thank you. - Genuinely. - People forget that I've been doing it for a really long time. - Yeah. - And I grew up with it and I know the ins and the outs and the back ends and the forward ends. And thank you though for that. - No, seriously. - I mean, that really does mean a lot. I know how to play the game and I know how to entertain.

Yeah. And that's my biggest thing is I think a lot of people take it a little too seriously, which is okay. But for me, it's like my job is to entertain. I was not like my job to make money. I mean, my job on this earth, my job on this earth is to entertain people. Like you're calling almost, right? That's why I'm here, I guess. I guess you had no choice.

And you've been doing it for so long. I feel like also I was just watching the Dance Moms reunion thing. Oh, God. How was it? I didn't watch it. You didn't watch it? Oh, my gosh. It's so good. But I feel like it seemed like even from a really young age, you understood the game of what the entertainment industry is, which makes no sense. Why did you know that? I don't know. Why did you know? It's so weird. Apparently, now I'm a time traveler. I saw this thing on TikTok, and I was like, wow, I actually do believe that. So maybe...

Maybe I had a past life where I did this, but I think I can see what I want and where I want to be, and I can figure out how to get there. And it's, in a weird way, it's all I know. Even before I was a public figure, you know, my mom, I'd be two years old. Before you were a public figure? So what, when you were like five? When I was like literally three. When were you not a public figure? Yeah.

Eight and under. Were you conscious then even? That's crazy to think about. It's my favorite when people will make a joke like, oh, when you went out to recess, I was like, I didn't have a childhood. I didn't do that. But thank you. Oh my God, I'm going to cry. No, no, no. I had a different, unique, very unnormal, but good. I wouldn't be where I am without it. Look where you are now. But I just wonder, is it like an intuitiveness? What is it that makes you understand that like,

all the feedback, you can't take it all to heart or you just like compartmentalizing everything into different parts all the time. Oh, I came up with some how to help myself this morning. I think I'm good at disassociating. Yeah. Like I'm good at putting it out there and then moving on and whatever happens that you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. And I think one of the reasons with karma specifically how I was okay to just kind of like

keep it pushing was because I was already working on the next project. Got it. Yeah. It was like the week before Karma came out, we started working on that song that Kat played you. Mm-hmm.

And I was like, well, good luck, Karma. Hope you do good. You know what I mean? I think I'm good at, I mean, disassociating literally is the word. Well, you're also busy as fuck. I'm busy as shit. So it's like, okay, this thing is done and now I'm already, but it's not done. You're never done. You're always working on something else. One thing, yeah, that I kind of had to swallow over the last few years and really learn about myself is,

it never goes away for me. You know what I mean? There is no end. There is no seven to nine. There's no... In general, as an influencer, I mean, your life, your career is selling your life. Yeah, you're literally giving up your life. And

Once I kind of realized that, I stopped treating my job, essentially a career as a job or job as a career. I started treating my job as my life and my career as my life because I realized there is no end. There is no change. It's the same, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Especially when you have like Snapchat and TikTok and Instagram. And you're promoting a music video. But like you're also on the side like literally just being like, and this is what I ate for dinner. It's like, oh my God. That's what's interesting is...

There's not really a model or a mold of influencer and artist. Do you feel like, I mean, we are significantly, we have a big age gap. I'm 32, you're 20. 12 years, that's nothing. Yeah, it's nothing crazy. No, but I felt like when I was growing up,

My representation was pretty limited as far as queerness goes, especially like... I mean, I feel bad because I feel like Ellen almost gets like a shit end of the stick because everyone's always like, all I had was Ellen. I'm like, okay, well, she's awesome. She's awesome. I just never wanted to dress or look like her, you know? Yeah. Do you feel like you had significantly more like representation at your age than... It's interesting because I...

I think now it's more visible. Like I know now who is there, but I didn't really realize, I guess, how many people there were, how many LGBTQ people there were that I love now, but when I was straight or before I came out.

my best friend who ended up becoming my first girlfriend, she was the first person that I realized she was gay. And I asked her if she was gay and she said no. And I was like, yeah, right. Come talk to me in six months. She came out to me as bisexual six months later. And I was like, yeah, right. Come to me in six more months. Six more months, she became my girlfriend. And she was the first person for me that I was like,

If I think it's okay for her to be gay, it's okay for me to be gay. And then once I realized I had feelings for her, I was like, uh-oh. Shit. But I never cared if I was going to fall for a girl or a boy. I always said from the time I was little, I was like, whoever I fall for, great. But I didn't have...

besides her at the time to look at and be like, oh, wow. Yeah. So you were pulling from like a real life inspiration rather than looking at people online. But now that I've been more aware of online and more aware, it's, I mean, the Gs, the Fletchers, they're so... Yeah, you've been like introduced to a new audience or new demographic of people. But I'm like, if I would have known G before I came out, like I would have been like, oh, that's... That's me. Yeah. Even if I would have known of G when I came out,

I would have dressed like this a whole hell of a lot sooner. Do you think? Really? That's so true. I feel like it's so... It's different because there's so many more queer people to look at that I feel like, if anything, maybe it just normalized being queer for you. That part. More than being like, I really look up to this one person. It's just like, oh, gay people exist. Gay people exist. And like, it's okay to...

experiment and be different and be out there and be yourself. And I think for me, I didn't know how I wanted to look. I knew that I, for like public appearances and stuff, like I, if I'm performing, I like to look feminine. Like I don't like to look masc when I'm on stage, but if it's a music video or a day-to-day, like I like to feel like this or a TV show shoot, I like to feel like this. And I

I didn't know. My mom does all my wardrobe. Oh, yeah. And so I didn't know how to explain to her, like, how I was, like, wanting to look like. So then finally when G came into my life, I was like, well, I wonder what G wears on carpets. And then I looked and I was like, that's, this is what I've been trying to see. And so, like, I think for me it was more just like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally style. Also,

You're 20. So I feel like your style's going to change again. So many times. Like more and more and more and more. I mean, I went from the most feminine girl you would have ever met when I was 18. Yeah. Did you feel feminine in those outfits and stuff though? I hated it. I love my costumes on Dancing with the Stars. But then after I went to like People's Choice. With this beautiful pink dress. And like, I guess I was just in that phase. Yeah. But I like, I mean, I...

I was the girl that was running around the concrete barefoot and like made my mom hold the heels because I didn't even want to be seen holding them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hated it. No, I'm the girl who was like a bridesmaid in a wedding and then at the end of the wedding during the reception, I would go upstairs and change into a different outfit. You know what I mean? And I figured that out at,

like 26, 27. Do you know what I mean? For when I was 20, I was still wearing dresses. I was going to date parties with boys and being like, yeah. And well, I did wear like sneakers with my dresses to date parties. What the heck? I'm like, that's a sign. That's a sign that we should just take the dresses off. But why do you think you're able to dress feminine then on stage, like performing? Do you think it's like separation? Yeah. I think I like to feel feminine.

hotter. I don't know the what it... I think it just makes me feel more like I'm performing. You know what I mean? Because when I perform, I want to be Gaga, Freddie Mercury, Elton John, Miley Cyrus. Those elaborate, extravagant... You know what I mean? But when I'm training, rehearsing, chilling, podcasting, TV showing, that's when I want to be...

G you know what I mean? Also, do you feel, I feel like you talk a lot about like Jojo versus Joelle. I do. I do. Do you feel like Jojo is the performer? Sure. Yeah, for sure. I feel like when I'm on stage, um,

it is a different human. I tried to explain this to my best, best friend because she had never seen me on stage. And I was like, I can't explain it. I was like, when you'll see. Yeah. Like the seven minutes that we're out there, like it will not be me. I don't know who it is. I don't know who takes over. But I feel like that's like a common phenomenon, I think, for artists. Right. Also, like, I feel like you kind of almost have to do something like that to protect yourself. I think so. You know what I mean? It's like kind of like blackout almost.

Yeah. And separate so that you can like protect who you really are. For sure. But that must be complicated. And I obviously like watched your podcast and I've listened to things you've talked about, but that must be difficult when you're dating. Very. Yeah. It's a very interesting conversation. And I think...

where I've actually messed up in the past is having the straight up conversation. And I try to bring it up in the beginning. There's two things that I try to bring up in the beginning. It's that and it's kids. And not the kid conversation like,

Hey, are you ready to have kids with me? I know it's the second date, but like, are you ready? More so just like, oh yeah, I want to have kids in the next three years. Like I love kids. I can't wait to have them. That's three years when you're 23? Oh yeah. Well, you're about to be 21, right? This month. Yeah. When you're 24, you want a baby. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Even sooner if I, if I could, like I. Do you think there's any chance that changes?

For sure. I mean, look, never say never. I always joke around. I'm like, I'm planning three weddings. I will never, ever plan another one until there is a ring on my finger. I think that's smart. Yeah. I think that's smart. We have done a lot of things too premature, for sure. But now I'm in a better place, and I...

The world doesn't believe it, but I'm a bit smarter than I was a couple of years ago. And I, but I, I, the one thing about me that has never, ever changed is my desire to have kids. And it's been there since I was 12. Like I... Like a maternal instinct. So maternal. Yeah. Do you want to carry a baby? Yeah.

I've gone back and forth. I really have. And ultimately right now I'm at no. I don't. I want my egg. And then I got a good sperm donor lined up. You and this sperm donor. Is it like a known sperm donor? Yeah. Like you know the person. I know the person. Yeah. I'm not asking who it is. I'm just saying you know them. Because I think a lot of... Okay, wait. I'm also completely diverging from our conversation. I want to hear the other thing you say to people. So you ask them about...

Yeah. And then I would normally bring up the whole like, so look, like I got to explain to you like this whole me publicly versus me privately. Yeah. And the conversation, I don't know if it scares people away or if it scares me away because it's happened both ways before.

And the problem with that conversation is it sounds like I am describing that I am one way in front of the camera and then another way behind it or one way on stage and then another off stage.

But what I'm actually explaining is how I'm both at all times. And that's when people are like, this is like, I can't. Confusing. It's confusing. Well, if you don't have any experience with it either. But because I feel like maybe for someone hearing that with no experience dating an artist or being around an artist, you might think like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Exactly. You know what I mean? Like a full split personality. Exactly. When in reality, it's just like there are elements of both parts of your personality that probably are emphasized when you're doing one thing or the other. Exactly. And then what happens is...

Whenever somebody says this to me, they're meaning it in a nice way. Like I've had girls, specifically girl that I was very, very close to. And this broke my heart when she told me this because she meant it so genuinely. And I was like, oh, you know nothing. Is, well, I'm not in love with that. I'm in love with this. And I was like,

Oh, meaning that they don't love me publicly. They love me privately. And they did mean it like, I love all of you. Yeah, but it like your your career doesn't affect the way that I love you. But then I was like, I made them very much so clarify what they meant before I took it to heart. And they literally meant like, I don't love you when you are public Jojo Siwa. I love you when you're private Jojo Siwa. And I was like,

oh, that's never going to work. Yeah. Because then it's a conversation of...

well, I don't want my kids to be in the public eye. And I'm like, well, that sucks. Because even if I don't either. Even if you don't post anything about your kids. It almost makes it worse. If you have like paparazzi following you. And I don't want to exploit my kids. That's never going to be my, but I'm so public that they will, I'm not going to not take them to Target with me. You know what I mean? And so it's, I've had to have like those type of realizations of like,

When I was little, I was friends with this YouTuber family. And they vlogged every day of their life. And very known YouTuber family. And I asked them, I said, how do you vlog without getting embarrassed around people? Because like it's... I find it so... I can't do it. And they said, if you know us and you're hanging out with us, you know that you're going to be on our vlog. If you are willingly to hang out with us, you know that you are going to be on our vlog. And that just is what it is. We're not using you. We just film our daily life. And...

I sort of after I had the last Joelle Jojo conversation with the last girl that I talked to before where I'm at now, I was like, I don't want to have this conversation again. I was like, because it does just need to be like, you just know if you know and if you don't, you don't. And if you get it, you get it. And if you don't, you don't. And that's also OK. And I'm in a great place now. Well, the positive thing is.

There are people who will understand that because I know from experience, obviously I dated someone who... You did? Yeah. But you know, like there is like a separation of like, even she's talked about it, I think. I think we talked about it on my podcast. I just can't remember. But there's like Carrie and there's Fletcher or like my roommate is Zolita and there's Zolita and there's Zoe, you know, but they are the same person, but there are like...

bigger characteristics and stuff. I think, I feel like people would maybe get themselves like in a slippery slope dating you by thinking it's like an, I think some people, I think some people feel special when they get to know a side of you that other people don't get to know. So I feel like maybe someone would say to you like, oh, I'm in love with Joelle, but that's because you're the only one who knows them, you know? So they like feel special because of that. But you're like, but I'm both people. But you get both. Yeah. Yeah.

As long as I love both. Yeah, and also I think that it's a testament to the fact that you're proud of who you are. So you're like, I'm proud of who JoJo is and who I am at my house. So for you to only love one of those people means you're not proud of me the way I'm proud of myself. Yeah, and they both need each other. When I am on stage, even though I am this JoJo...

it's the joelle that puts in the work yeah it's the joelle that is like go harder go more full out like why aren't you fucking singing like move your mouth a little bit come on get some vocals out like i don't care if you're hot and tired like come on kid find it yeah and then when i'm at home laying in bed doing nothing and being a lazy pile it's jojo that's like hey bitch if you're gonna perform in two days you better get up and start practicing you know what i mean and then joelle is like

let's go. No, but it's real. But it's also, I think those people, I think like as time goes on to,

people have a tendency either to lean into one or the other. Yes. Or like you'll meld together completely at some point. Yeah. I'll be curious to see what happens. You're literally 20. It's so weird. It's so weird. I think about the artists that I love and idolize and I'm like, damn, they really hit their big break at 26, 27, 28. And I'm like, fuck, I got a long way to go. Yeah. You're so young. Do you feel are

Are you, do you have any fears around like, you know, the classic like child star tropes and stuff? Like you're turning 21. Doing drugs and going crazy. I mean, do you think about that? Luckily, I'm terrified of my mother. Okay. And she's the best human in the world. My mom is genuinely the greatest human. But I know if I ever did something stupid, she would not have it with me. Yeah.

I think... Or, like, how do you keep yourself from having just... Having a legit breakdown. Yeah. I honestly accredit it to the people around me. I've always surrounded myself with people older than me. When I was 13, my best friends were 22. When I was... Now that I'm 20, my best friends are 30. Like, that is my friend group. And I think that the best thing for me is I...

Only surround myself because I have a very addictive personality. I have a very loyal personality. And so I know that if I get into something, I'm going to stay into it. It's going to get bad. So I know that I can't even start it. But I just met this friend and we've gotten very, very close. And I told her, I was like, damn, I'm so happy that I met you out of your party phase. Because if we met in your party phase, we would have never been a thing. We would have never been able to be friends because...

I wouldn't. You can't be around that. I couldn't be around that even as a friend. And I've had to have conversations with friends where I'm like, hey, we're so close. I love you. But we can't be this close right now because of what you're doing. I know myself if I'm around it and I don't. And so that's why I choose to make my best friends like my older people. Yeah. Do people ever think like that's like a

Red flag that your friends are so much older or like people do and it's it actually blows my mind and I've gotten a lot of shit for social media and so have they like literally one of my Best friends in the entire world is a 30 year old straight man and public figure we met on special forces Tyler Cameron I fucking love this guy with my whole entire heart What is a 20 year old?

gay Jojo Siwa doing being best friends with Tyler Cameron why are you guys that's weird yeah okay like yeah I know okay like it's like what do you say exactly but I think that's like an industry situation also that and it's just like you bond with who you bond with and like I even when I was a kid and my best friends were way older than me it wasn't like I had here's okay okay okay here's what I would say

If I had all 21-year-old friends right now and one 30-year-old, that would be weird. Or if when I was 13, I had all 14-year-old friends and 12-year-old friends, but then one 26-year-old, that would be weird. But because right now my best friends are Tyler's 30, Rachel's 32, I'm

I do have a 21 and a 23 and a 24. So I got a couple of my age, but my closest people are, there's another one that's 35. Jen, I think is 33. Like that's, yeah, that's you're skewing much older. I'm skewing much older and it's all of my friends. You know what I mean? But can you imagine right now at 20 being friends with like a 12 year old or like a 14 year old? No, but if,

I'm just curious. I'm like, no. Yeah. It's, it's very strange. It's one of those things that's like, you just had to be there because no. Yeah. But me as a 12 year old was different. It was. And I think it was because I was working as a 25 year old.

Mentally, I was there. Well, you can't help but be around so many adults also when you are fully in an industry where you're being followed by cameras, etc. Exactly. Those people are going to be older. Even now, though, I'll meet a 17-year-old and I'm like, you're a fetus. Yeah, but you are a fetus. I am still. Whenever I tell my friends, my friends that are 24, I'm like, you're so young. You're so young. I'm like, I'm four years younger. You're younger. To you, I am 16. To me, that's now... Yeah, you're a baby. I just feel like...

I don't know. I feel like you should give yourself grace to also remember that you're 22. I feel like it's probably hard when everyone is kind of being like, grow up Jojo all the time. I'm like, why? Yeah. You're literally on top of the world and you're 20 years old and you have all the time in the world to do so much other stuff. I try, man. I try. I try to give myself a little grace being like, you're literally a baby. You are a baby and you're like a very successful baby. Thank you. It's crazy. It's so fun to watch. Thank you. Do you talk about dating?

Like, do you tell the internet if you are? I mean, I know you've obviously had public relationships. I've had very public relationships and I will never... Never again? Never... Well, all right. Look, never again is crazy, but I...

I mean, it goes back to you like having kids like you can't keep there's nothing you can really keep that private forever. Yeah. And so I think my new mentality is private, not secret. Yeah. You know what I mean? And honestly, it's out of protection for the other human. You know, I fell for somebody and there's somebody straight up told me I could never be with you because of your public life. Really? I would want to be with you, but I cannot because of your lifestyle. Yeah.

And that was really hard for me because I was like, I can't change that. Yeah. That's saying you're too tall for me, but I am in love with you. You're too tall for me. I'm not going to cut myself off at the knees. Yeah. And that would literally be what you're doing if you were to sacrifice your career. Exactly. And like, I just even if I was like, you know what? Fuck it. I'll stop my career tomorrow. I'd still go out and people would still know who I am. Yeah. No changing that.

And so I fought for a while and I was like, give it a chance, give it a chance. Like, just try. Like, you don't know what it's actually like. And they were like, I can't. Like, I, it's hard enough for me being your friend. I cannot imagine being your girlfriend. And I was like, oof. That's tough. It was a hard, hard pill to swallow. But then I realized, it kind of made me realize that, wait, this career is my public career, not my...

my relationships, public career, whatever that may be with one day. And so it kind of got me in the headspace of like, let's, let's keep this under wraps. And I just, I don't know. It's kind of like the same thing as my kids. Like you're going to be out there. You're going to come to target with me, but like, I ain't going to pose it. I ain't going to exploit it. Totally. But isn't it? Ugh.

Isn't it so sad when you're like in a relationship and it's like cute and you want to share posts with like pictures because you're like, we are so cute. The hardest thing ever. Yeah. And yeah, it's it is the hardest thing ever. And even now.

like wanting to share to your close friends and you still can't do that sometimes like it it is so so tough because it is cute it's so cute and it's also representation that's what I always struggle with like going back and forth all the time because I'm like god if I could have just seen this couple when I was little I would have like changed my whole life yeah you know yeah but also it's I think it's hard because it feels I don't know if you feel this way but for me when

when I am dating someone and I'm not posting about it or like sharing it at all, it feels like a huge filter over like my whole life, you know? Cause I feel like relationships become such a big part of your life. So if you're, if you're posting 40 Snapchats a day and avoiding posting someone in it, it's really feels like a huge filter. Yeah. And it's like even doing a photo dump, half the photos are taken by that human. And it's like, ah, I just wish I could put their hand in it. Like it's,

Yeah, no, it's tough. It's so tough. But that's the sacrifice. You know what I mean? It's so true. The hardest sacrifice, but it's,

I've learned worth it. Yeah. Oh my God. And I've kept a lot private from the internet. Like I, which is crazy because you post a lot and like with your podcast too. So much. I could not believe when you said on call her daddy that you used to post 10 YouTube videos a week and a week, seven on my blog, three on my main. And I was crazy. How old were you? I, at that time it would have been from when I was 13 to 15. Did you go to school? So I was homeschooled and then I graduated when I was 15.

Yeah. What? Psycho. And you graduated when you were 15 and from 13 to 15, you were posting 10 YouTube videos a day. Nuts. When were you studying? I'm naturally really book smart. And so for me, honestly, my school legally on set, I would have to do three hours of school a day. So I had my program, Monarch. We love you, Monarch. It was a great school program. Yeah.

And I mean, I would go on and in three hours I could do a week, a week and a half of school because I would not read anything. I would just go straight to the questions. And answer them. And answer them. Even math. I mean, I'd be in algebra and like I wouldn't need to...

Learn how to do it. I would be able to figure out the answer. You know what's going on with your brain Cut me open and examine it. We need to study you Something is going on Okay, I also love that you said in that interview that you were like the one thing What the people wouldn't expect is that you are making decisions on your own basically, right? Like do you have a team of people?

Obviously. I know because you're signed to Columbia. Yes. Columbia is my label. Yeah. I do. I have my label. I have my agent. But honestly, the team, my mom and I is the team. It's the team. Yeah. We decide everything. I decide everything and then she makes it happen. But we have this joke that...

came up with it in the last week I was like we we are the team no one else is the team mom you and I are the team and I was like we're like a baseball team you're the pitcher and I'm the catcher it's all you need and she was like yeah because like I throw it and then you run to the outfield really fast and throw it back to me at home plate I was like no no no no it's like because you're such a good pitcher no one can hit your balls oh my god we just strike them out boom and then when we get up to bat we don't need base runners because we hit home runs every time it's like we are literally a team of two that is crazy and it seems like it is true

I mean, look, if it didn't work, we would not be this. No, obviously. Something we're doing. Yeah. But does that do you have a complicated relationship then with your mom as like a mom compared to a business partner? Very much so. Our relationship just is what it is. And I've had a lot of people come into my life and be like, yo, your relationship with your mom is not normal. Like, that's not OK. And I'd be like, yo, no.

You just got to go with it because it's not normal. Same way my schooling life wasn't normal. Same way my life isn't normal. I was like, but it is our normal. It is our... Totally. And you just got to get with it. And my best friend for the last... The one that was 20, 26 or 27 when I was 12...

went through a phase where she was like, are you and your mom healthy? And I was like, yeah, I think so. And she was like, I don't think you are. And I was like, maybe you're right. And I kind of got into it. But now she's been my friend long enough to know, like, yo, your mom is the best thing for you. Like, she genuinely...

I could not do it without her. I tell her all the time. I'm like, the day you die is the day I disappear from the face of the planet of Earth. Like, I will go live in the middle of Texas, raise little Freddie, Eddie, and Teddy, and, like, literally no one will hear from me again because I couldn't do it without her. Like, without her, you don't want to do it. Nope. Couldn't and don't want to. Well, like, who's to say what is normal anyway at the end of the day? At this point? And also, I don't think anything about your life is giving that normal. You don't think? No.

No, not really. You don't think I'm normal? No. I do think you're actually really normal. Thank you. You're so sweet. Thank you. But do you think, okay, did your mom care when you were going to come out? No, she actually, she made it super easy for me. She said she kind of knew. Yeah, when you were younger. She was like, I have known since you were like 13. And I was like, no. And she was like, you never liked boys. You never were into it. Everyone had crushes and you like made up one to have one. And I was like, okay, valid. Okay.

But then, yeah, when I came out to her, it was my first night after kissing a girl. Okay. I was like, oh, God, how do I tell my family? Like, now I'm in love with my best friend. Like, this is weird. Like, what do I do? And, yeah, I said goodbye to that girl because she was going to drive home and I was going to fly home. And...

I go back into the car to drive to the airport with my mom and she literally was like, you really like her, don't you? And I'm sobbing. She was like, I was like, yeah. And my mom was like, do you like her as a friend or as more than a friend? And I was just like, time to shine. More than a friend. Time to shine. Time to shine. Here we go.

And yeah, that's when I came out to my mom and she was like, yeah, I figured. And my dad was like, sick, no pregnancy scares because they know how bad I want kids. And at this point, I was 17. And so I was, you know, old enough to the point where if I wanted to, I could have had children with a boy. You know what I mean? Yeah.

but been very straight of me very straight of you so my dad was like no pregnancy scares um well that's awesome it seems like it was very casual then it was they were really good about it we went through the typical month two month period where it was like a little awkward then at home yeah and i was grateful because my mom brought it up to me she was like hey we gotta talk and i was like ah shit she's mad at me this is awkward she's got some grandparents like crap yeah

And she was like, I know I've been weird. I know I haven't been talking to you like I normally do. She's like, but I just don't know if you're comfortable, if you want me to talk about it, how I talk about it. She's like, I've never had a gay kid before. I don't know what to do. Yeah. I've never had a friend that has a gay kid. I don't know who to talk to, who to ask, how to treat you. Totally. And I was like, mom, nothing's changed. I was like, same way you asked me about Mark, one of my boyfriends back in the day. Same way you asked me about Mark. I was like, you can ask me about her.

Yeah. She was like, oh, okay. Like, it was just like a little learning period. Totally. I always say to people when they come out to their parents that, like, think about how long it took you to process that information for yourself and, like, give your parents some grace in that time, too. Just because it is...

It can be. If you have like an expectation of what your kid's life will be and then it changes, it's like overnight. It's just a little different. Yeah. It takes time. And different doesn't mean necessarily bad. No, not bad at all. If anything, great. Yep. We love being gay. We do. But yeah, no, it's just, it takes time to process. For sure. That's so nice. But...

I would think that it would be complicated too with the business side of stuff. Yeah, so then it was like, okay, what are we going to do? I feel bad that you're like squished in the bed. No, I'm actually so cozy. I hurt my leg on last music video and so it's just acting up, which is why I keep squiggling because it's just like...

I'm locked right now. Why aren't you moving me? But no, I genuinely am like chilling right now. Okay, good. Promise, promise. Then it came the conversation of like, what do I do for the world? And I was like, yeah, we'll just kind of get there as we figure it out. And then someone with these people called Pride House and they made a video with me to the song, Ain't It Fun, Ain't It Fun, Ain't It Nice. I remember that, yeah. Yeah, and so they posted that.

And I had known them for years. Since I was like eight, I've known them. And I wanted to tell them because they were gay and I was gay. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever to tell someone gay that you're gay. You know what I mean? And I was so excited to tell them. And they never really asked. And I never really had an opportunity to tell them. So I didn't, right? But we made that video. And then they posted it. And it got all the, oh my God, is this JoJo coming out? I was in a closet made of glass. Like it was pretty fucking obvious that I was gay. But...

you know, to the straight eye, maybe not. Yeah, I feel like to gay people, I think a lot of gay people saw the queer flagging that you were doing, but I feel like straight people and middle America and like, you know, the kids wearing the bows and stuff. It was like, oh, what's this? Yeah, way more of a shock. So after that got what's called, I mean, at the time, backlash, which is crazy that that's considered backlash. Yeah.

The Pride House reached out to me and they were like, "Hey, we're gonna delete the video. We're so sorry that you're getting heat like this." And I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no, no." I was like, "It's okay." I was trying to figure out how to tell you guys that I was gay actually. I was like, "I am gay." I was like, "But I just didn't know how to tell you." It's like, "I just now gotta figure out what I'm gonna do about this." And if I wanna confirm, deny, like, I don't know. It's like, "But I'll figure it out." And then I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna post a video of me singing 'Born This Way.'"

So that was my, like, trying to come out. Like, I was trying to make it obvious. But it still wasn't obvious enough. Still wasn't obvious enough. So then I...

To tell my close friends, I posted the picture of the best gay cousin ever shirt. I posted that on my close friend's story. And all my friends were on it and they were stoked and whatever, fine. And then one night at like three in the morning, I was on FaceTime with my girlfriend. And I was like, this was maybe like two weeks after. I was like, I want to post this on my real story. And she was like, do it. And I was like, okay. Fell asleep, woke up, my life was changed. Holy shit. How are you so impulsive? I...

Don't know. No, I honestly...

I think I just realized there was no changing it. And people also have to remember that I've never played a character. I've done a few one-offs here and there playing a character, but I've made a career out of just being myself. Yeah, totally. And so I knew that this was a piece of my life. This is who I am. There ain't no changing it. I don't want to change it. I'm happy. I'm in love. You know what I mean? Yeah, of course. We love puppy love. Puppy love is the best thing ever. And also your first love, too. First love. Best friend. It was so cute. Like, it just was what it was. And yeah.

I just remember being like, if someone doesn't like it, fine. Yeah. And a lot of people didn't like it. I can imagine. Yeah. And that was hard. And I worked for Nickelodeon at the time. And the company was not very happy with me. The president was like, so what are we supposed to tell kids now? And I was like, nothing. That I'm fucking girls. No, we're just going to tell them that I'm happy. Literally what? And I think I accredit people...

Assuming being gay is bad or gross to the word sexuality. Because immediately you think sex. It becomes sexual, yeah. Immediately you think sex. It's in the word. But...

At the time, being 17... Yeah, you're a kid. You're a kid. I'm not thinking like, oh man, I can't wait to rail a girl one day. Oh, literally. It's like, oh my god, I think this girl's so hot. You're gonna have my first girlfriend. Yeah. It's no different than Cinderella and Prince Charming. It's literally no different than if you had your first boyfriend. It's no different. But yeah, it does get sexualized. No girl assumes what Cinderella's thinking about Prince Charming, right? I'm sure Cinderella and Prince Charming are adults. I'm sure we know what they do when the castle closes, right? For sure.

Yeah, no one thinks about that. You know what I mean? And so I think me coming out, I look at 17-year-olds now and 17-year-old child stars now, and I'm like, wow.

that's where I was when I came out. And it, I'm not much older now. I'm three years older than I was then. But I'm like, damn, like, I really... That was so brave. I did something. Yeah. You really did. I really did my big one. And it... No, you should be so proud of yourself. I think that that was... And the way you went about it, it seems like...

I don't know, I think if there's one obviously really positive quality about you, it's that you don't have shame or like, and I think some people use that to make fun of you, like the SNL skit and stuff. But I think when it comes to your queerness, that's like the coolest thing ever that you have no shame about that. And then you like figured it out and then you're like, okay, I'm going to tell people. And like, yeah, you could have, it could have gone so differently if you had carried more shame about who you are. Totally.

I think one of the things that I've realized most about my career is 2% of my life is public, realistically, right? And so people only know what I show them. Yeah. And so if I show people the shameless, the positive, the confident, the

That's what they take from me and that's what they gain from me If I show them me having a fucking breakdown over my body like no one like that's that's not what the world wants You know what? Yeah And so I've learned that even though I behind closed doors might think one way about myself feel one way about something That whatever I show the world that's gonna inspire them to feel one way, you know what I mean? It's the same way Lady Gaga says

I'm on the right track, maybe I was born to survive. Like, man, I hear those lyrics and that's in a three minute song. Yeah. But I hear that song and I'm like, my mama told me I was a superstar when I was young. You know what I mean? Like, you take those lyrics. Is this a song about you? Literally, right? But,

I'm sure Gaga has her days where she doesn't feel like a superstar. Oh, 100%. You know what I mean? 100%. We don't see that. You see Gaga and if you think of her, you feel like the most powerful figure, right? Totally. And I think that I've learned that I can do that for others. Well, that's like the influence you want to have too, you know? Exactly. To make others feel good. I fully think that if you ever were to like post something about feeling bad about yourself or a breakdown or anything like that, you would also... Oh, I did. I got so made fun of. Really?

Oh my God. But I feel like, I feel like people would be really receptive to that. Some people, obviously there's always going to be people who aren't, but I think like that is the thing that's so refreshing about celebrities in 2024 is that we are fully actualized people. Like you are a fully real person with dimension and you don't have to be perfect all the time. And like, it is so empowering for, it's empowering for a 12 year old to see a person being queer and not ashamed at all. But there's also like an element of,

I think it's okay. I think it's good when I share times where I feel like, am I still internalized homophobia for myself? Of course. Just because it's like, yeah, these things are all normal. You just want to feel normal. Yeah, totally. Everyone wants to feel normal. And the funny thing is there's no such thing. No, at all. But I also feel like the internet hasn't really been that kind to you in creating a space that would make you feel comfortable being vulnerable like that.

It's interesting. It's no matter what I do, no matter what I say. I was laughing about this today. I was like, damn, the way that I ordered my Starbucks got hated. I literally am in the drive-thru and it's a video of me on Snapchat being like, hi there. Could I please get a brown sugar? And people will stitch up and be like, hi there. Yeah, it's like you can't win. I can't win. I had a speech impediment when I was 18.

Probably 9 to 15 is probably when it kind of fixed itself, even maybe 16. I was a little old. But fine. Yeah. No.

And they still on SNL do my impression with that impediment. You know what I mean? Which I kind of thought was kind of fucked up. You know, it was, but it was fine. Is it? I've learned that I can take it. Yeah. And I came up with this fucked up way for me to feel good about being bullied. And it just, it works. And so I keep it in my back pocket. But I say that like, look, and this isn't to SNL. This is just to general people.

if Susie is bullying Emily at school, right? I don't know if Emily can handle it, but now all of a sudden Susie is like, dream guest on my podcast. And Susie starts making fun of me on social media. She's not going to bully Emily anymore because it's not fun anymore for her to bully Emily. And so I know that I can take it. I know Susie can bully me as much as she wants and I'm going to be fine, but I don't know if Emily would be fine. You know what I mean? And so it's,

in a weird way i'm like i'm saving emily's life you know what i mean well that's admirable for you of you to be a punching bag for all take it man everyone everywhere but also i hope you know you also don't deserve that thank you i've got good people around me yeah and like hearing that from people like you yeah hearing that from people like gee hearing that from people like tyler like having real legit people in the industry

be honest with me always gives me the little bit of, because everyone needs reassurance. Yeah, 100%. Including me. And so it does give me the little bit of reassurance that it's like,

I don't know how you thought of me before I came in here, but I know we have a really good mutual friend. And so I was like, ah, she's probably got to feel decently about me. Oh my God, I feel great about you. You probably got to have like a little bit of like, ah, she's not this fucking lunatic, right? No. But it's like now you've gotten to talk to me for an hour. And so now I know like you can kind of see through my holes, you know what I mean? And it's like, there's, there's...

there's normal in me yeah of course also if people want to see it they'll see it and people people some people are committed to misunderstanding you totally and that will always be the case and I am down like I am here to entertain and that's how you're entertaining be my guest I know I'm like I admire you so much I don't know that I could handle everything that you go through also I want to say I feel like it's interesting because I

I think the internet as a whole has not always been so kind to you. Yeah. I think the thing that's been most disappointing to me with the internet is watching the queer community not be that kind to you. Yeah. And like really dogging on you for things that I would, I would love to see every queer person's like outfits that they were wearing at their peak of trying to figure out what they want to wear. Do you know what I mean? I know what I was wearing. Like...

My favorite is when people started to come at me for dressing like G. Yeah. And I was like... That's what we all do. By the way, that's what we all do. Everyone does. That's what we all do. I wanted... I was dressing like Kristen Stewart. I was looking up what shoes were and dressing like her. Like you find who you want to be and you look like her. Yeah. And straight people do that. Gay people do that. It's so normal. And gay people have... We have to do it almost more because we have so little like...

What do we wear to look cool? You have to search and figure it out. And also, fucking awesome of you to be so transparently like, I look up to G-Flip. I want to dress like G-Flip. The first time I got that comment, I literally was like, yes! I was like, goal achieved, baby!

I did it. I know. That's good. I was so proud. I was so proud. I was like, I did it. I did it. You did. I look like them. I did it. That's so cute. That's the thing. It's like, I just wish people would watch your journey and find all the ways that it's endearing rather than trying to poke every hole that they can. You are like a punching bag that...

And I'm sure, honestly, some of that's probably people's own internalized homophobia. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm really lucky. I have a guy around me. He's my choreographer and creative director, and his name is Richie Jackson. And this man is the, I mean, best human in the world. Most brilliant human. I...

I credit so much to him, and my life would be very different without him. He has been with Lady Gaga as her choreographer and creative director for the last decade and a half. And so he was with her through all of the phases. Through the that's a girl with a dick phase, through the, what do they call her, hermaphrodite. They attacked Gaga. The queer community did. And she...

Obviously, I mean, anybody can see, like, any human would struggle a little bit with that, right? But the stories that he's told me and the things that they've talked about together...

he all the time is like, I've never seen history repeat itself like this. And that gives me like, just again, that little bit of reassurance that I'm like, Gaga went through this shit. MJ went through this shit. Like if that's what it takes, maybe I'm in, you know what I mean? Totally. I mean, you will come out the other side at the end of the day. We're sprinting. Yeah. We were in a marathon sprint. But I am disappointed. I just wish that queer people would give you more grace. Yeah. And like, I think also like,

Obviously, sometimes we misspeak or we say something a little bit wrong, but we all do. And it's like, I just feel like you get so little grace. I mean, literally no matter what I say or do. Yeah. That's what my mom told me the other day. I was deciding if I should do one thing or another thing. And I was like, well, if I do...

I was actually, I was deciding if I wanted, I'll be open about it because I don't really care that much, if I wanted to sing live or if I wanted to lip sync. And I was just deciding, I was like, how am I going to put on a better show? What's going to keep my body healthier? I was telling you earlier, I have tonsil problems right now.

And I was like, what's better, right? And my mom was like, JoJo, if you sing live, people are going to say you sound like shit. If you sing lip syncing, people are going to say you're lip syncing and you're not a real singer. She's like, either way, you're going to get shit. She's like, so pick your shit. You know what I mean? She's so true. And I think that honestly helped me with a lot more than just that choice. It helped me be like, mm,

What do I want to wear today? Well, if I wear this, people are going to say that. If I wear this, people are going to say that. Okay, I'll just wear this. That's so true. Yeah. That's so true. But do you also feel loved, like, online? I do. Do you feel like you have, like, a community of people who really, like, support and lift you up? I have the exact career that I wanted. Mm-hmm. Whether people like it or not.

my analytics show, how many people watch my things from the For You page and how many people search my name, click on my page and watch my video. - Fuck yeah. - And to get people to do that is impossible. And I definitely feel love, but from the people around me. They keep me happy, they keep me positive and they keep me pushing. And like I said before, my job on this earth is to entertain

And people are entertained. People are definitely entertained. I'm doing my job damn good. People are definitely entertained. And it's just getting started. Oh my God, we did these two new music videos.

And I haven't seen a cut yet. I'm supposed to see a cut of one of them today. But watching just like the little bits of playback. Yeah. And then going back and watching Karma. Mm-hmm. Karma sucks. No way. It is so bad compared to the new two. I couldn't even watch it. It was like painful to watch. And I mean, Karma was my baby. Karma is my baby. I was so proud of this video. So proud of these photos. So proud of these looks. Yeah. Now I look at it and I'm like.

That's what I thought was good. Like, that's... Because your standards are already... I mean, the new stuff is just, like, blown karma out of the water. And so now I'm like, I don't care what people say about karma. I got this new shit to look at. Okay, well, I thought karma was amazing, and I watched it right up, and I was like, fuck yeah, this is awesome. Thank you. Was that scary to do, like, the girl-on-girl, like, scene kind of thing? I... Okay, yes and no. It definitely...

I needed to be with someone that I trusted. Yeah. For sure. Especially for that first. Because I, you know, had never... And you never had like a female co-star, right? No. And like never even just been that...

Raunchy? Raunchy is a great word. Raunchy. Raunchy, publicly. And so I was like, here we go. Like, good luck. And luckily in the Karma video, I had a girl that I felt very safe with and she felt very safe with. And I mean, we laughed and we giggled. And the other girl in Karma who plays my girlfriend, her name is Malia, and she's one of my best friends in the whole wide world. Okay, cool.

So just a safe environment in general. I keep it really safe. Yeah. And I keep it very comfortable for everybody, especially when we're learning it because it's, you know, it's a lot. You're on top of each other. You're grinding. You're licking. You're touching. There's a lot happening. The lick. Okay. The lick is crazy. The lick was unintentional. What? So me and Malia have been best friends. That's Malia. We've been best friends for a few years now. And we

And we have this like running joke that she's in love with me. And it's like, it's a joke, but it's not really a joke, but it's a joke. And like, we like poke at it. So she's, we're doing the tight shot and we just ran the whole song, me singing straight to her face. And the whole time, I mean, we're dying laughing and Richie's there like, kiss her neck.

lick her get closer whisper in her ear troops like that's Richie's job right I'm done yeah all of a sudden I get the edit of the video and we see her lick my neck yeah neither of us remember it you don't remember it happening we can't find it in playback like no one remembers the neck lick but it's one of the most iconic moments it's there but I will say we were watching karma back and she's in the new music videos as well and so we were watching karma back

And we were like, damn, we thought that neck lick was something. Like, we really thought we did it. Yeah, you did it. Did I say lick neck? Lick neck. That neck lick. Neck lick. It sounds like a crazy thing to say in general. So are the next ones, are they also, like, very adult feeling? Very. Very? More so? Very. Is there dancing? Very. Yeah. Okay. I...

I wanted, it was hard to figure out how am I going to get people to keep talking. Yeah. Right? I was like, fuck, we really went there with Karma. We got people talking. Now how are we going to keep them talking? And I had a vision for what song I wanted to come next. And my label had a different vision. And I was like, all right, got to pick what hill I want to die on here. And so I ended up going with their idea for the second song. And then we went to mine for the third because it'll be a little bit bigger of a look.

And I genuinely was like, all right, how am I going to make this second song? Yeah. How am I going to make this second song big? And actually, I mean, I'll just show you. I have this. I literally have one photo on my phone from it. But I mean, it is gnarly. That's me down there with that contraption on my head. Shut the hell up. Helming that POV. That's sick. That's just one, one tiny little like.

I mean, it's crazy. Are people going to be talking? For sure. For sure. For sure people will be talking, especially with number three. Number three is... I put all my eggs in one basket with number three. Really? I really did. And...

You're going to get to see me in some girl girl. You're going to get to see me in some boy. Oh, yeah? It was the closest I've ever been to a boy. Oh, my God. You're going to get to see it. We're going to go on a journey. I can't wait to see it. It's gnarly. Do you identify as like a lesbian or? Yeah, I mean. I know I've seen a video of you saying you don't like the word lesbian. That was like the start of me getting hated on for everything I do. Oh, my God. Everything.

A lot of people have said that before, by the way. A lot of people have said that. And also, here's the thing for me. Lesbian is just a mouthful. It's definitely a word. It is better for me to just say, I'm gay. Yeah, I mean, also, no one gets to tell you how you are not allowed to identify. All I said one day is I didn't like the word. I know. That is it. I know.

fuck me apparently I hate all lesbians I'm like okay so I hate myself no yeah no not the point also that is such a common like that is a common thing and like part of a lot of lesbians journeys totally is not liking the word because also that word for so many people is used like

Exactly. And against you. Exactly. So, I mean, I try to make it a big deal to like always say I'm a lesbian and talk and use the word because I'm like, okay, if we all are just hearing it more casually. It'll just be chill. Maybe it'll get better. But yeah, like I don't think that, I think that that goes back to the same idea of like, I just wish people would give you more grace. A little more grace. Just give you grace. And also you can give someone like the information without being like, and you hate lesbians, by the way. And I've never.

I literally love lesbians. Like, I'm literally in love with lesbians. That's the whole thing. I am lesbian who loves lesbian. Like, I am. Trust everybody. We're taking the word back, okay? Oh, gosh. But no, I... Honestly, it's one of the only, like, things that I've had to, like, set the record straight for on the internet. Because, like, I did say it. Yeah, you just don't want people to, like, get it misconstrued. Yeah. No, I definitely identify as a lesbian. I...

No shame. I just, somebody asked me like, what are you? I'm like, I'm gay. What are you? Like, I don't. Easy. I'll say queer still too. Like I'll say anything. Gay, lesbian. I think, was it? Yeah. G Flip said that they say they're a big lesbian. That's what they identify as. A big lesbian. They do always say that. And by the way, G is not very big. Oh yeah, I'm big lesbian.

G is tiny. G is tiny. So tiny. G is tiny. Also, I can't get over how tall you are. You're taller than me. You guys, JoJo Siwa is taller than me. So they're going to be big lesbian. I'll be giant lesbian. Yeah, perfect. I'll be like medium size. Medium lesbian. Medium lesbian. Medium lesby. How much time do you even have to consume content? Oh my God.

Like, are you watching stuff? Nothing. Yeah. Nothing. And I, anytime we put something on to watch or listen to, I'll fall asleep immediately. Cause if I have that time, I'm just off. Yeah. Fair. That's so fair. I can't imagine that you would have time to do much of anything at all. And anytime I'm listening to music, this, this sounds psycho, but I'll listen to mine so I can come up with new ideas. No, I think that's fair. Um, okay. Last two.

two things. First of all, do you think you'll have an ex on your podcast? Yeah. And,

And do you want any advice from me? Yes. What would your advice be? Oh, my God. Prepare yourself for so much. I think I underestimated how much it would reinvigorate shipping. I thought it would do the opposite. And it's done a little bit of both. I mean, both things happen. So I think just mentally prepare yourself for that. And then also, it's just not...

It's a weird thing because it was such a vulnerable, great conversation that we had with each other. And I think when I finally actually posted it, I was also like, wow, does everyone deserve to get this conversation? But at the end of the day, I think it was, I stand by the decision. Yeah. No, I mean, look, I think it was brilliant. I think,

I think even just y'all representing that you can have a healthy relationship with an ex is also just what the world needs right now. Like, I remember literally sitting at my studio and seeing, like...

You post like the sneak peek and I was like, no fucking way. No fucking way. Because I also remember seeing the Taylor Swift concert footage being like, no fucking way. Like, so I remember being on the edge of my seat. But then I also like I've seen, I just, it was cool to see Taylor.

The healthy representation of, like, you don't need to hate. Yeah. And also, like, you can go through... I mean, we went through actual controversy with each other, too, and still made it through on the other side. Which ex would you have on your podcast? I think about that all the time, and that's why I will not have any of them on my podcast. I...

I'd have one of my, I'd have my ex-boyfriend on. Really? He was sweet. He was a cutie little Mormon boy. Sweet. Yeah, we had some fun times. We did literally nothing. We went on Taco Bell dates and we kissed occasionally. That was it. Sounds like a good boyfriend. He was great. He was great. Okay, so the boyfriend could come on the podcast. Yeah. Do you have guests on your podcast usually? I did in the beginning, but now I don't. You just do it by yourself. Yeah, because the stuff that I talk about, it's,

better for me to just ramble. You're just kind of like rambling, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I have a good relationship with one of my exes. And the other one I actually had to talk to a couple of weeks ago because she needed something from me. Oh, wow. And she was like, also sorry for the way that I was when things went down between us. I look back now and I really regret it. And I'm really sorry what I put you through. And I was like,

honestly, like, it's fine. I laugh about it. And the other one I will never talk to again until the day I die ever. God. So I'd probably pick the healthy relationship. Three layers there. Yeah. I feel like the healthy relationship one and the world knows who that one is. Like, I... You guys had posted content together also, right? Yeah. Like...

Not a ton, but people knew exactly. People are going to know who you're talking about. People for sure will know who I'm talking about. My original, you know, people always love you with your first. And I've kind of realized like, yeah, you know. I know. And I think, and you can probably relate to this too, I had to get to a place where I was like, and I will always have love for my first. For sure. Yes, the bad started to outweigh the good, but the good was great. And I'm going to hold on to that great. And I'm going to just...

keep my life pushing. You know what I mean? But I will always have that special place in my heart, even though I don't want it anymore. A hundred percent special place. Also, the longer the time goes between when you're in that relationship, you will like learn to appreciate it more and more. Absolutely. Because you, the bad stuff, you kind of honestly forget. You forget about and you grow and you have other bad stuff. And then you fall in love with other people and

The love that was there turns into something completely different. Completely different. Yeah. Love. Yeah. It's unique, a unique experience. Okay. Last question. Okay. Shout out again to Hinge for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. I appreciate y'all so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I really believe that the best thing about Hinge when it comes to dating and trying to meet people is the prompts because you have something built in to help you start flirting. I think when you just have pictures,

That could be so much more stressful. So the prompts are so helpful and they have their LGBTQ plus prompts. I highly recommend you guys check them out and answer one or two or whatever multiple. Last time I talked to you guys about Hinge, I said if I were building my own profile, I would use the

The first time I knew I was gay prompt and say it was when I exclusively wore tankinis because I do truly believe there is a tankini to queer pipeline. But I also believe there is a wearing your dad's suit when he comes home from work to queer pipeline. So if you've ever done that.

Please let me know. But also, I think any answer, as long as it's something that someone can build off of and flirt with you and like joke about, you are set. You are set. Give yourself a leg up. Use an LGBTQ plus prompt.

Use Hinge. Download Hinge with the link in my bio. Find the love of your life. Did your team want you to wear the outfit you wore to the iHeartRadio? That was all me. Yeah. I wanted to do that. They were like, what are you going to wear? And I was like, I will only go if I can wear my Beast costume. And it was honestly just because I loved the costume and just wanted to get another wear out of it. I was like, I just want to do it again. Did they say do it? Yeah. They were like, all right, go for it. Because I think the craziest thing about that is you got so much...

People were talking about it, obviously, still talking about it. Yep. SNL's talking about it. But more people talked about you on that red carpet than Beyonce. Mm-hmm.

That's insane. Goal achieved. Yeah. I mean, I just think that there's... I was watching the views all night that night just being like, wow. Yeah. I just don't... I'm like, do people... I feel like people don't understand how calculated you are in the decisions that you're making. And that's the thing is like my extended... My mom was like, fuck yeah, if you want to wear that, that's what you're wearing. My extended team was like, is that a good choice? Like, don't you want to... Like, we can... And I was like, no. Like that...

We want people to talk. Here's how we're going to get them to talk. Like Miley wearing a nude outfit and fucking herself with a foam finger. You're still talking about it. Tell me any other person that performed that year. Any other person. At any other award show. You're literally not wrong at all. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. So I think sometimes it's about not being afraid of the controversy or the risk or the, like you said, Beyonce. Yeah, that's crazy. Nuts. Do you think you would ever walk a red carpet though in like,

do something like, like an extreme of trying to like be like full glam. Like,

I have before when I was in my dancing with the stars phase, I wore my pink, pink, fluffy dress. Yeah. Strapless. But like maybe a suit. Like what about if you went like, gee, like would you do that? I just wore a suit to my best friend's wedding. And cause he was like, it's black tie, like a ball gown. And I was like, Nick, I am not busting out a fucking ball gown. There's no way. And he was like, you can wear a suit. And I was like, sick, I'll be in a suit. And I was, I was feeling it. Really? Did you post anything in that? Um,

I don't think I have. No, I should. I want to see. I should. It's in my dump actually that I was going to chalk up today. There's a little post of it. Okay, I'll be looking. Do you think you'd wear a suit in your own wedding? I've thought about this a lot, yeah. Yeah. A full rhinestone suit. Of course. Yeah. Okay, well, this has been amazing. Do you feel good about everything? I feel so great. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. Thank you for being kind to me. Always. Thank you for asking me the hard hitters and...

just being a good human being. I can't wait for everyone to see your music and hear your music and see your videos. The music that I've heard is fucking awesome. Honestly, I'm like, I'm stoked. Thank you. I will be listening to that and karma forever and ever. Thank you. Uh, okay. You guys can follow Jojo and all her socials. I'll put them all in the link below and yeah, keep an eye out for the music that's coming out. Yo, appreciate you. Yeah. Yeah.

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