I Never Had A Girlfriend with Arden Rose
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Okay, hi guys. Welcome back to X's and O's. I am trying something new today. One of my least favorite things ever has always been, like when filming a YouTube video or any video, is that you can't listen to music at the same time. And I'm like, God, it would change the game for me if I could just have music playing in the background. I guess with the podcast, you can't, no, you can't copyright. You can't. Anyway, I'm listening to music in my headphones because, um,

I want to. Okay, what a weekend. It is Sunday right now for me. I am tired. Do you guys get the Sunday scaries? It's weird because... What? Okay, what do I want to talk about? I actually think I can't listen to music. I think it's making me not understand what I'm saying. I have to turn it off. Okay.

That was a fail. Anyway, it's Sunday currently here in Los Angeles. And this weekend was fun and great. I had such a great weekend. Do you guys get the Sunday scaries? It's weird because I don't have like a typical nine to five job or whatever. But I still do get like the Sunday scaries sometimes, you know, I'm like, Oh God, the weekend's over. Even though like, it's Sunday and I'm working. I'm working right now on Sunday.

weird. Anyway, this weekend was so fun. On Friday, I went on a double date with Gabby Wendy and Robbie Hoffman, who I adore. They're so funny. We had the best time. And then Saturday, what did I do? Oh my God, that was yesterday. I went to a lesbian engagement party and it was so much fun. It was on the beach and I played spike ball all day long, all day long.

I don't know if y'all know spike ball, but it's like a game. It's like sort of like volleyball, but like the net is like a bouncy trampoline thing in the middle. If you've not seen this game, this is not gonna make any fucking sense. But anyway, I was playing that for a long time. Something about me, when I play spike ball, I really throw my body around. I will jump and roll and lay out every time. Do I win? No, rarely. Do I get the point when I sacrifice my body like that? No. No.

Rarely. Today, I regret it more than I can tell you. I am covered in bruises. Head to toe. Covered in bruises. I was playing against Becca Tilly and her sister Caroline, and they are the most athletic family I've ever met in my fucking life. Everything that they do, they're good at. Every sport I've ever seen either of them do, amazing. Anyway, I didn't beat them one time. I did not beat them one time. And then when Becca was on my team, we also lost. So...

Honestly, yesterday was a rough day for me. A lot of L's, a lot of L's. That was my weekend. Then I woke up this morning and I'm like, oh, okay. My phone doesn't work. Not charging. I was like, okay, no worries. I'll go to the Apple store. I need to buy a new phone anyway. I knew it was like literally going to break any second because it looks terrible. It's like totally crashed, crashed, cracked. The back is completely cracked. So I was like, I'll just go to the Apple store, go outside to get my car. Oh, my car is dead.

So I'm like, okay, no worries. I'll just take an Uber to the Apple store. Oh, yeah, my phone is dead. I'm like, okay, I am not going anywhere. Christy came over, jumped my car. Thank you, Christy, my best friend. Love her. So then I was like, okay, great. She's like, we're going to an estate sale, but like come over when the estate sale is over. I'm like, okay, awesome. I'm on my way to her house, literally in my car on my way to her house. And she calls me and she's like, hey, I just sliced my hand open.

Sliced your hand open, had to get six stitches. What is going on? When is the full moon? Is it, when is the full moon? Today? Tonight? It's bringing things up and it's scaring me and I'm not a fan. Also, I have a new obsession, which is the TikTok shop. Please take my phone away from me. It's like worse than Amazon. I get on there and I'm like, ooh, do-do-do-do-do. Like, it feels like fake money. I'm like, this isn't real. Like, I'm not actually spending $3 on these sunglasses.

But I am and I bought two pairs And I bought this sweatshirt which I love I'm like okay obsessed Huge weekend also on Friday I finally got to announce that I'm doing my Live show with Patreon here in Los Angeles At the Simon House in Beverly Hills Which is going to be so fucking fun I'm so excited so if you're a Patreon Member free or Paid you know there's a free tier Of my Patreon so you could just be on there And not pay any money if you want You can check it out the link is in my bio but

It's going to be so fun. There's going to be a photo booth that looks like my bedroom setup. There's going to be a tattoo artist, actually three tattoo artists doing flash tattoos. There's a beverage bar. There's going to be a DJ. There's going to be...

food truck and then there's gonna be a whole live show that I'm gonna film and even if you do not live in Los Angeles if you are a member of my patreon you will get that content which is awesome so if you haven't signed up yet I highly recommend I like it I think it's fun I've been posting vlogs on there now which I think is like

fun for me and it feels like special because it's like this is like just for some people and I'm so excited for my live show my whole family is coming to town my mom my dad my sister my brother-in-law my aunt my cousin are coming I just had to rent an Airbnb today because I don't have place to put all these people but I'm gonna say this nice Airbnb and then it'll be my dad's birthday so we're gonna celebrate his birthday on Friday the show's on a Thursday

So I'm like really looking forward to this month, the next month, next month. Yeah. How is it already July 21st? Anyway, also you guys can still buy my friend of Dorothy's stuff. It's still for sale. And also those orders are going out. They're being shipped. So if you have ordered something, you should be getting it soon or you may have already gotten it. So keep an eye out. Last thing, mental health check. We love to talk about it. My mental health this week, honestly,

It's probably been better in my life before. Like this week. Also, so many highs this week too. So just like... I don't know. I've just been...

I'm feeling like a little, a little bit more down than usual, but nothing crazy, honestly. And I'm sure next week will be better. I'm hoping next week will be better, but it's life, you know? And also I'm like, it's good. It's good for me to be able to say like this week wasn't a perfect week because I feel like honestly the last few months have been so many highs, high, high, high, highs.

And it's like I am a person so I don't want you guys to ever think that I don't experience sadness or stress or anxiety. I definitely definitely do. You guys are like probably like yeah we know you're anxious girl. You talk about it all the time. I'm like

Yeah. Without further ado, let's jump into this episode. I shit you not, this is one of my favorite episodes I've ever recorded. Ever, ever. I had such a fun time when I was recording it. And also Arden just said so many things. I was just like, wow, I love that. Wow, I love that. Like,

A different perspective. I think it's really amazing because she's bisexual and also married to a man. So like it's a perspective I don't think we've had on this podcast really at all yet. I mean, we've had bi girls who are dating men, but this is a whole new thing. This is like a whole new thing, which please stick around and watch the whole thing and follow Arden on everything. She is like literally like just light. She is just like good. You know, if you've ever seen someone, met someone and you walk into a room and you're just like, wow, there's like...

Your energy is light. Like, I can't even explain it. I just love her. When I say light, I don't mean, like, lighthearted. I mean, like, beaming. She's awesome. Anyway, please enjoy this episode of X's and O's as much as I did. This episode of X's and O's is sponsored by Chime. Summer activities can get really expensive between concerts and vacations and baseball games.

please someone take me to a Dodgers game. But when you have financial goals set, you have to decide which of those things is worth spending your money on. A Chime checking account helps you reach your financial goals, but also enjoy your summer. Take back your finances with features like fee-free overdraft up

to $200 with SpotMe or getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit. Live it up this summer and make progress towards your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in minutes at Chime.com slash Shannon. That's Chime.com slash Shannon. Chime feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bank Corp Bank, N-A-N-E.

or stridebankna. Members FDIC. Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Boosts are available to eligible Chime members enrolled in Spot Me and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. Thank you, Chime, for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. Someone please bring me to a Dodgers game.

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Okay, hi guys. Welcome back to X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. And I'm so excited for my guest today, Arden Rose. You may know her from YouTube. You may know her from Twitch. You may know her from TikTok. I'm a big fan of your TikToks. Thank you so much. Yes, they're excellent. But you are an OG, OG, OG YouTuber. The OG-est. The OG of the OG. We have hung out at Playlist Live and at

That's how you know how OG you are. Yeah. I mean, like, I met my husband at VidCon, which is maybe, like, the most embarrassing thing to admit to the internet. You met him at VidCon? Yeah. That's fucking crazy. Okay. And Arden is also recently married as of this year, 2024. Whoa. To a man. Woo.

we love will but if you're confused because this is a podcast about queer relationships and sex you guys remember bisexuals exist that's actually so true it's so true we actually do 100 exist no bi erasure on this podcast okay thank you i love bisexuals thank you so much is that how you identify most

Yeah, I think I was, you know, I was thinking about it on the car ride over and I was like, I feel like the bi slash pan fits the bill just because I think when I was growing up, like bisexuality was the only prevalent thing that I sort of resonated with.

I mean, it's like the B in LGBT. So it's like, you know, it's like, it's right there. Yeah, I know that one. Yeah. So like, I think just based on my internet research as like a teenager, I was like, that's starting to make a lot of sense. But then I think of pansexuality and I'm like, that also, now that I'm an adult and I'm like, I'm a lot more fluid, I think that

probably also fits the bill. I'm just so comfortable with bi. Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like a lot of bi people these days are like leaning more pan as like the word, but like bi is just more well known still, I think. So yeah, especially I feel like in this era of the world where we're like bridging a gap between people who are like very like woke and know what's up versus like still people who are very backwards and are like, what? Yeah. Like people who are like, are we allowed to say queer now? Like,

Have you heard people? Totally. My mom's like, wait, queer is not a bad word anymore. Oh, no, totally. Yeah. I mean, my mom was a bad example because my mom's like the ally extreme. But like that generation of people is like queer used to be a bad word. Yeah. Trying to explain to them pan over by. I feel like we're still trying to like.

Yeah. We're bridging gaps. We're navigating. Also, there's something about Pan. And this is, listen, this is absolutely no hate to Pan. 100%. I just think of like Pan, like the mythical creature. Every time I think of Pan. I think of Pops.

pots and pants i'm and sexual literally fans i'm like i fucking love those steel pressed the handles go crazy hot sexy we love them they get very hot no um we need to that word needs to be it is getting like more i don't know people know it better now i think it's like it's obviously more inclusive yeah like it ignores a binary which i think is good and so i think that's where that's how i feel it's like i wouldn't

I'm attracted to a vibe. Yeah. So it's like, I'm not going to be like, yes, I love the binary so much. I must stick to that forever. No. That's so fair. Yeah. Okay, well, glad we got to the bottom of that. Also. I know. We just solved it, didn't we? You guys are welcome. Yeah. What was your trajectory of coming out online? Because I know you don't have like some emotional like, and I'm bi.

video because I tried to find one and you don't have it. Where are the tears? I'm kind of missing a trick maybe. Okay, you're just giving me an idea. So if you guys see a video in a couple weeks, just ignore it maybe or watch it. Save it, favorite it, share it, wait for the clips on TikTok. Exactly. It's gonna go crazy. Uh,

I didn't really have a big emotional coming out because I wasn't very emotional about it. I think that was part of it. I think bisexuality in general,

is something that is really easy for women to announce because women are so sexualized anyway. Fair enough. So like when you say like, I'm bi, people are like, oh, okay. So you're a little bit of a slut. Love that for you, you slutty girl. I love that. It's great. Yeah. So it's like, it's something that I think

doesn't make people uncomfortable in the same way that other performances do. It's not like as newsworthy. Exactly. But it is. It should be. It totally is. It can be. I say that to say like it wasn't a big deal to me because the internet didn't make it a big deal. And I'm not saying that's a good thing. No, but...

Yeah, you were casual about it. But do you remember like the first time you even like mentioned that you're by in a video? Was it in the Shannon? I don't even know. It just happened. I legitimately don't know. I think I just said it one time probably in a YouTube video and someone was like, oh, bisexual queen. And then it was like, yes. Yeah, actually. Totally. But I think I throw down that vibe. Yeah. I don't think anyone was like, what?

What? No way. You're so straight to me. So yeah, it didn't really, I don't think it surprised anyone. And I think it kind of like, it was what just like kind of breezed over. And then, because yeah, I was trying to find, I'm like, have you ever like fully announced it? But then I was like, you just have like random TikToks where you're like, as the bisexual girl, like at Pride. Yeah. Yeah.

we should talk about. Yeah, that one did really well. That one did really well. Yeah, because you also, I think in that, did you say like who's had a predominantly straight

like dating history or something i don't know exactly how you worded it yeah which is like super duper a cell phone and like self-shame i think you've also been in one really long relationship right you and will have been together nine years oh yeah almost a decade that's which is so crazy yeah no it's definitely um i was just thinking about it because when you were like i want to talk about bisexuals at pride and like allies at pride and everything i was like this it's so itched a part of my brain because i

I don't know. It's one of those things like people don't ask me about my sexuality because... Because you're in a... Well, you're married. Now you're fully married. I'm so married and also like I've been in

in like a visually heterosexual relationship my whole... - Yeah, the whole time. - Sort of 20s, yeah. So it's not been something that people have really asked me about. And it's, I think it's something, it is biracial in a way. Like it is something that makes me sad 'cause I don't get to participate in the queer community in the same way. So I really appreciate you having me on the podcast. - I'm so happy you're here. - But yeah, it was just interesting. Like it definitely made me think about the beginning of our relationship and...

Just how like, I think, well, you're from Texas, I'm from Arkansas. Oh, yeah. So we get like, there's something about finally moving to a liberal city and getting to explore your sexuality in a way that you never were able to. And like,

that's just something I never got to do yeah well and yeah and now I'm married babe so it's like I'm really locked in and that's to say like I'm so happy I'm married I love Will so much like he's my best friend there's no part of him that I don't love and there's no part of him that I would ever like give up to be with someone else and because of that because of how much I love him

I had to grieve all of the queer relationships that I could have had. Yeah, that's so true. And also, I think, honestly, like a common thing. Yeah. I think there are a lot of bi women who actually never get to experience or explore their bisexuality as much as they maybe would have wanted to. Yeah. Especially if they didn't come from Arkansas. Yeah. Or Texas. Womp womp. That could have been your early...

experience but also you really met Will so young yeah how old were you when you got together well I met him when I we originally met when we were actually still dating other people and it was just one of those things where it was like oh hi you're somebody I'm nice to meet you and then like bye yeah have I told you that story I've definitely told you that story about how I got him confused for the magician Collins Key

- No. - Oh yeah, no, I wasn't wearing my contact lenses and I was in like a drink line trying to get a Diet Coke and I was turned around like talking to Collins Keys. And if you know about his dimensions, he's got very similar dimensions to Will. - Tall. - Tall. We're doing tall with glasses. Yeah, and so I turned around to like talk to him and then turned back. And when I turned back around, there was like, I was met with like a British accent and I was like, oh, that's not- - Who I thought. - My friend, he disappeared.

And so I always say the greatest magic trick that he ever did was getting us together. That's crazy. Yeah. But then we were dating other people. So it wasn't like, it was just that suddenly we were aware of each other, like on the internet. And then like four months later, he slid into my DMs.

That's crazy. And how old were you? I think, I mean, if we're talking 10 years, I think I was 20. That's insane. When it happened. Yeah. Yeah. So, and I was only single for a year between like my high school sweetheart too. To that. Yeah. Do you feel like, are you like a monogamous person just like inherently? Here's the crazy thing. I'm not. Like, it's so crazy. Like I am by track record. Clearly. Like clearly. But like, it was something I remember when I broke up with my high school sweetheart, I was like,

Yes. I'm about to be so crazy. Shit's about to get wild. No one wanted to fuck me. So that just wasn't... I don't believe that that's true. 100% true. The only time I got close to fucking someone was I found out later he was 31 years old. Oh, good. I was 19 and then he didn't want to fuck me because I was so young, which thank God that's how it should be. Fair enough. 100%. But I was like, okay, so this is just, this is my luck. Yeah. And so I just chalked it up to LA and then I...

imported my boyfriend. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. Thank God for Will. This episode of X's and O's is sponsored by Chime. In college, I literally used to get stressed every time I did anything because I have the type of anxiety that doesn't let you check your bank account. And I was constantly

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Are those? Live it up this summer and make progress towards your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in minutes at Chime.com slash Shannon. That's Chime.com slash Shannon. Chime. Feels like progress. Banking services and debit card provided by thebankcorpbankna.com.

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And we are the hosts of Sibling Rivalry. This is a podcast where two best friends gab, talk, smack, and have a lot of fun with our black queer selves. Yeah, for sure. And you know, we are family. So we talk about everything, honey, from why we don't like hugs to Black Lives Matter to interracial dating to other things. Right, Bob? Yes, and it gets messy and we are not afraid to be real.

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But that's crazy. You've never had your hoe face? Never had my hoe face. Well, the other thing that kind of sucks too is that I was in a room like at the bottom like basement of the house and then it was all, it was three girls above me. Oh yeah. You came over, you must have come over to the house once or twice. The Fab Four? Were we called? No way were we called. No, because there was the Fab Five, right? Wasn't that a thing? I don't fucking know. I just know. I don't know. I don't think I ever went there. That's

That surprises me. Jen was in our house, Jen McAllister, Andrea Russett, Lauren Elizabeth, and then me. Yeah, I think that Andrea had already moved out by the time that I was around y'all. Yeah. And you too, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you guys had all moved out. We had all kind of separated. But it was, yeah, it was a very, like a slutty house. Yeah.

that's fair which was awesome but then the problem was that my bathroom was on the bottom floor so if anyone needed to throw up or be sick it was like beelines straight into arden's room and so i would just be fielding like vomitous ladies like in my room all the time perfect and no men or ladies to hook up with super duper not i'm i think i must have hooked up with one person or two people

but i i don't even think it was it was just very disappointing okay a lot of disappointment not not the time of your life no not the time of my life but it's really funny because now like a lot of those people in our house like we've all come out as queer yeah like i think they're yeah we've got a three out of four yeah all bisexuals for sure which is kind of incredible that is that makes sense yeah but it really sucks because none of us hooked up with each other no and you guys could have been talking about it no i know and you've

It could have gotten serious. God damn it. No, I know. We all kind of screwed it up. But, um... But did you know you were... When do you... Do you have, like, a memory of, like, thinking you were bi for the first time? Or, like, had feelings for girls for the first time? Definitely. Is it young or is it... It... I think it's pretty young. You know what it was? It was, like, the classic being in a locker room and feeling uncomfortable and feeling, like...

like I would make you can't look like look down yeah or I would like make extra time in the morning to get changed by myself because I knew I was gonna have to get changed and then people would be like you're already in your uniform and I'm like yeah I just love it I really love being in this uniform like avoiding being naked around other women because I just like didn't

And I couldn't understand being like so comfortable around other women. I was always like, and to me, I always read that as women make me uncomfortable because I'm worried I'm going to get bullied. But I didn't know why I would get bullied. There was like a disc, something is disconnected there. Yeah. I remember you

video you made about feminism or like how you didn't like girls or you didn't have girlfriends oh yeah i have no girlfriends yeah that one did really well do you think that has anything to do with your bisexuality now looking back 100 when you made that video did you identify as bi yeah yeah i don't know if i mentioned it in that video i might have mentioned it in that video but i think it's kind of exactly what i'm talking about which is that i just didn't feel i

I felt icky like I felt like I was being predatory in some way even though I wasn't like I was like it was it's almost like the OCD thought process of like like I don't know like you know like when you get like repetitive horrible thoughts it was like that but specifically around these certain that makes sense you know what I mean no I mean for me I knew I liked girls a little bit like even like I really knew so I had that same thing but I knew where it was coming from so like when I was in the locker room I was just like

okay, I never want anyone to think back of a time around me and be like, and Shannon was weird that day in the locker room. Like, so that's where I was like, okay, so I'm going to look down. Like I was, everyone thought I was like prude or like shy. I'm like, I'm not really that shy. I just didn't want any of you to ever think I was thinking something that I maybe was thinking. That's the other thing. I like was, you can't help it. Actually. I'm like, yeah, you guys are pretty girls. Like I want puberty. Yeah. I'm like, I need to close my fucking eyes.

Also, like I was going through like the latest puberty of all time. I'm like, I don't even have boobs myself still. Still waiting. There's a second puberty coming up. Yeah. I think. Now I think I don't want it. I've gone through enough. I'm like, actually, I've got all the bras. These are small. Yeah. 100%. At that time, I was like, where are my yiddies? And then all my friends are getting them. And I'm like,

why do i like your i'm liking your i don't want to look at them but i need i want to look i'm gonna get a change in the bathroom actually you know my favorite like my favorite boob thing what is calling boobs heavy naturals okay i saw your tiktok about that today i was like i'm fucking dead will and i say that all the time i have seen them like uh is it nancy pelosi have you seen yeah well it's also a meme i was playing trivia the other day and someone's team was nancy pelosi's

big naturals. I think that's what they called them. And I was like, oh, obsessed with that. Yeah, that's really good. That's a good one. That's really, really good. But like, I can't imagine having that. I mean, okay, I actually talked about this before, but I'm sure this doesn't resonate with you. But I think it's interesting. But I always thought I wanted to get pregnant. Okay. But then when I thought about the fact that my body might change if I get pregnant, like my boobs might get bigger and my hips could get like, yep, more womanly. I was like, wait a second.

i don't know that i like that anymore i like my bullish yeah i'm like i'm scared about i like the way my clothes fit me and stuff now even though it took me a long time like for a long time when you're younger you're just comparing yourself to other girls and you're just like yeah this is what i should look like where are my heavy naturals yeah at least i had misha barton to look up to then she had the smallest boobs and she was very in vogue yeah you know wide hips

why or maybe it was just that her skirts were so low that it accentuated how wide they were we may never know well it's hard to know and i didn't know if i wanted to be her or kiss her and that was every girl ever for me classic but clearly you had an element of that too yeah i think i also felt that way yeah and i think that was also uh i i kids are in your family

I have one like blood sister and then I've had a lot of step siblings. Oh, okay. Okay. A lot of divorce. Did you feel like you get, you kind of got to get lost in the shuffle a little bit or did you feel like there was still kind of a spotlight on you? Um, I feel like there was still a spotlight, definitely still a spotlight, especially cause my older sister was five years older than me. So she like left and went to college and then I was like, you know, eighth to like

what 12th grade alone with like those step siblings so i definitely felt like a lot of attention from my dad and my mom although in separate houses right right trying to like why do you say that well i i just say that because you're one of four i'm one of four hey okay i do research before okay i'm

um and i'm the third and i'm the second girl got it of three yeah so i really got to get lost in the shuffle a little bit which is probably why i had so much unfettered access to the internet as well you're like i have a youtube channel to make oh fully i need people to talk to no fully i remember having the conversation with my mom when i was 16 i had already had the youtube channel for like a year and a half i think at that point which is nuts your baby oh i was a little tiny little

But I had started it to talk to my friend Kennedy who moved to Texas. Thanks for taking my friend by the way. - So sorry about that. - So fucking rude, but it's okay. But she had moved and so we would send like video diaries of us getting ready together, like and send them back and forth.

And then I actually started getting kind of an audience of people watching me because I would upload them. You were just uploading it publicly. Yeah, like a dumbass. I would just upload it. I was like, YouTube. This is for everyone. Well, at that point, it wasn't like there were really, there were creators on YouTube, but it wasn't like. There weren't like YouTubers. Or vloggers. No. It wasn't like people like, like there were definitely beauty people, but it was tutorials. It was people being like, this is how you put on lip liner. This is how you use this. Totally. You know what I mean? So when I was just sending it back and forth, I think that's where like that early.

beauty kind of community came from. And anyways, I had to go to my mom when I was 16 after I had gotten, I think it was like 20,000 subs or like 50,000. It was like crazy. That's crazy. Insane. I went to her and was like, Hey mom, um, I kind of need to like open a bank account because I was, I,

I got offered Google AdSense. Fuck yeah. And I didn't have anything to connect it to. And I was like, I could make like $20 a month. I mean. That's big. That's crazy. That's big. For a 16-year-old? Huge. Awesome. Massive. Yeah. I could go to Sonic and get like a crazy combo every month. That's all you need. Honestly. I fucking love Sonic. I wish we had more around here. Dude, Powerade Slush. That's all I want. There's only one like in Palm Springs. I can't imagine it's good either. Or Joshua Tree or something. Really? There is one there. Well, I know where I'm going next. Yep.

I gotta go on vacation. I gotta go all the way back to Dallas actually because they're better. Are they better in Dallas? Yeah. Okay. I gotta go back to Arkansas. Anyways, sorry, Sonic. Shout out to Sonic sponsoring this podcast. You can sponsor either of us however you want. However, divvy it up. Do whatever you want.

But anyways, yeah, so I started doing that really early on. I don't even remember how I got on this topic. You needed a bank account because you were... Right. And so, yeah, that's how I started all of my YouTube stuff. Did you have a crush on that friend by chance? I think she might have had a crush on me and vice versa. There were a lot of sleepovers between us. Yeah. A lot of good old-fashioned sleepovers.

Oh my god, absolutely. Oh my god, you just made me remember something that's so crazy. We that was when I kissed a girl Katy Perry came out. Great song. We were having a sleepover and we kiss each other to that song. That is so gay. And I'm sorry, it was gay to me that you were sending video diaries. Your friend moved away and you're like, we're in a long distance relationship now. That's like the gayest thing of all time. Shannon.

You just hadn't thought about this yet. You're peeling this onion. This is crazy. Yeah, no. Yes. There were signs. Yes. And she, I kind of always just thought like, oh, she just thinks of me as her best friend. That's why she's obsessed with me. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, I got to hit her back up. Okay. I got to say, listen, I'm married now. We need to have a combo. Big day for you. My God, that's so nuts. I mean, yeah. I feel like that's like a big part of most couples.

queer girls experience, like, at some point you had some friendship that was like,

Why did we like each other that much? Yeah. We were a little codependent. Did you have a moment where you had to, like, come out to Will? Or were you out when you guys got together? I think I... You know what's really funny is, like, I... Once again... Oh, wait. The reason why I talked about this was because I was saying I got to get lost in the shuffle a little bit. Oh, my God. Thank you. That's why. But I'm going to circle back to this because it involves this. But, like, I think part of the reason why it wasn't hard for me to come out and part of the reason why it wasn't hard for me to, like, reckon with my sexuality was because...

I was always kind of the kid that got to do whatever in the shadows and then like,

be like, by the way, that's okay, right? Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I can open a bank account, right? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was never really discouraged from, like, doing the things that I was passionate about. And I always say about my parents, I'm like, if they were anywhere but Arkansas, they would be very liberal people. So it's like, because it's baked into their community, I think that's why, like, they have some homophobic views and stuff like that. And why I would never be, like, very openly gay around them.

but they obviously watch your content right no what no what absolutely not and thank god they don't thank god but what would they do they know that they know you're bi i don't know if they do okay and honestly i'm okay with that yeah because i don't think they really knew they i don't know how to put it but it's like i i don't revert back when i go home but it's more like i have a very safe

personality that I can have when I'm home and I don't have to be that way around most of my siblings but like the people that I know I'm like you know what this is the type of relationship I'm always going to have with you guys that's just how it's going to be for my own sanity I'm not going to try to like push that anywhere else that's fine yeah you know what I mean no I think that's fair I think how people deal with their

families it's so personal yeah i think it's like each one is different like some people come out to just their mom or just like you know what i mean or just their sibling yeah i think it's like whatever makes you feel safe and happy and like if you feel seen in your community all the time like you're here in la and you're very yourself i'm like i could understand why you wouldn't need to

push a boundary further to be like why yeah no it's like what am I trying to get out of this because I'm gonna find an answer I don't like yeah and so it's like I don't really need to do that yeah you know and I also don't need to like

prove anything to my parents. Yeah. I think that's part of it too is like they love me and they know that I'm gonna like be whoever the fuck I am. And I just think that they don't need to know every single detail of my life. Also, I feel like it might be like a tougher situation for you too because you're in a heteronormative relationship and

like married and so like there could be an element i think for a lot of bi people of being like well what's the point yeah no that's exactly how i feel you'll have to like defend yourself and at to what end because it's not like you're like and one day i'm definitely gonna end up with a woman like yeah you already know yeah so it's like gets more confusing i think that's also why a lot of bi girls don't even ever come out at all yeah especially if they're in a community like that's just your parents like imagine you're

then a person living in Arkansas with a husband. Yeah. You love your husband. Yeah. What why would you even feel compelled to like rock that boat? Yeah. No, you're like hitting all the hitting all the marks. I also think that there's part of bisexuality and pansexuality that can

can sometimes feel like stolen valor like if you're someone who is very visibly heterosexual like you're not sort of visiting the dangers that a lot of like very obviously queer people are in the world and i think that there's like i know i've had a lot of shame around and like this is the talk about like allies yeah yeah totally like i've had a lot of shame about feeling like

I can move in the world and operate in a way that is not dangerous to me. And like, I'm very aware of that. So I think that's also part of the reason why I'm not constantly like waving a fire pan flag around is because it's just like, I don't, again, I don't need anyone else to know that about me for me to be proud of it. Yeah, like, for my husband to love it about me. And like, you know, all of that. So it's something that

I think is important. Like, I think it's very important to be visible. But I think I'm also just, like, very respectful of the queer community. Which is also where, like, the self-deprecating jokes come from. Totally. Yeah. Also, it's just, like, a fine line, I think. I think it would be confusing to be a bisexual person in a, like...

heteronormative straight relationship especially right now online there's so much discourse around like the don't bring your boyfriend to pride and then like people like sticking up for them like just like confuse it confusion in general I feel even as queer as I am and I'm like obviously fully identify as a lesbian totally like I even can move in spaces incognito often like when I go home to Dallas I'm not wearing like rainbow shirts or something I mean hell Shannon by the way I have I've

i would yeah i don't mind but if i'm not and i'm in dallas people aren't necessarily clocking me at every turn being like oh there's a homo you know what i mean it's not happening do you get hit on by men a lot in dallas yeah there you go i mean i'll get hit on by men in l.a which honestly kind of makes more sense almost because i'm like la like their girls are less like we're less in a binary here in general yeah you know yeah yeah yeah yeah but yeah like even i feel like i

I feel like I get away with like safety in ways that other people don't. And I definitely lean into that and take advantage of it, especially like traveling and stuff.

I will like not hold my girlfriend's hand sometime. Yeah, just out of fear. But it's it is crazy because there's some people who have you can't hide it. Yeah, like it's like written all over you no matter what. Yeah. But yeah, the stolen valor thing is like an interesting thing. Yeah, it's like also, why do I feel like in 2024? It's almost feels like bi people are contributing more to bi erasure than like,

anyone else because they're like oh i'll be i'm like if i have a boyfriend like i should be quiet about it yeah yeah it's sad though that's wrong i feel like i know

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Well, I think the sad part is, is that it is...

both internalized homophobia and feeling othered by the queer community. So it's like this double-edged sword. And I'm not saying like, whoa, is me bisexual, pansexual, but it's more like you feel a traitor of queer people and you feel a traitor of straight people. Like there's not, because you don't fit into the binary of it. It's like, it feels, well, you do because you're queer. But like, it feels like you're not. It feels like people who are like,

you know, like very proud of their sexuality are judging you for being maybe not as proud of it. But then that's the whole fucking point of like pride is to try to go and feel good about it. It's crazy. You kind of feel like imposter syndrome in both communities, which is like wrong because, and you know what? Also, probably I wonder, I don't know, cause I'm not bi. So I only speak for myself, but I wonder if bi women or bi people who have sex

not heteronormative relationships like when they're in uh I'm like why can I not like a same sex relationship or like a like not straight relationship right like I feel like maybe then they would feel more proud and also feel like they have more like less scared to like proclaim that you know but totally but then at the same time then

no you're a lesbian yeah no you're a lesbian no you're a gay man or you're in you're in a lesbian relationship even like people will say it's like yeah but you're not you're not even if you're as long as if you're bi and you're dating a girl you're still bisexual i had a friend i got clocked on that i was i was at dinner with a friend i hadn't seen in a really long time and she had a girlfriend and i was like oh my god like so happy to see my lesser friend like love my love my lesbians and she was like i'm bisexual and i was like whoop

I was like yes you are no and I and I did the I've done the same thing to one of my gay friends he was like nope I'm bisexual yeah and it's like I'm doing that as a bisexual yeah I'm I'm reinforcing the binary totally which is like very uh like obviously bad and I don't assume anything now this is like early this is early 20s it's confusing because even like

i talk about this girl all the time gabby windy because i love her but she's from the bachelorette and she's in her first like relationship with a woman and she refers like when i had her on my podcast i was like how how do you identify and she was like i just say i'm in a lesbian relationship okay so it's like all of these

All of these things, at the end of the day, it's also we kind of made it all up. Yeah. I mean, like people are just going to. We straight people. We made up straightness. We actually did. So none of this is real. We're just creating little boxes for people to be sorted into, which I get because everyone loves organizing stuff. We love to organize. I mean, I love it when other people organize my stuff. Yeah, me too. But I can't pay for other people to organize my stuff, so I have to do it. But I wish I could. Me too. But at the same time, I wish someone could organize my head because that would also be really nice. Me too. But that's what therapy is for.

so we love our therapist yeah 100 but um your original question I'm gonna like boop boop boop boop if you can remember that that's crazy I know what I tell you about to call back yeah I think I know come on I think it was when did I tell Will yeah yeah okay so it's really funny because he knew when we started dating I kind of told him and like Will

such a wonderful guy. I would love for you to get to know him even more. I would love to. I don't even know that we know each other at all. We like each other's Instagrams. I have his book. I know. And he references you all the time, which is really sweet. We should be friends. I know, right? Did we go rock climbing together one time? Yeah. Literally, that was the one and only time that you hung out with him. Or maybe it was just

Or was it just you, me, and Connor? It was just me and Connor. I feel like he would have jumped on that. I feel like I've met him, though. But I also, it's so weird. Like, the whole parasocial relationship thing is crazy because people will talk about it to me. And I'm like, I have it with people from, like, the internet. I'm like, well, I followed you for, I commented. I, today, I was looking through a lot of your old stuff. And I commented on that feminine, like, the I don't have girlfriends video. Oh! It's saying, go feminism. Ha ha!

eight or nine years ago i don't think you even knew me like i just was like i knew of you i was probably like video what a nice comment i probably really liked it at the time but how weird is that now you're in my bed no well and did i ever go rock climbing with your boyfriend husband maybe who knows maybe who knows did i i don't know well we'll have to go rock climbing with him again we have to hang out or for the first time maybe who knows um but he was like aware of it

Yeah. When you started dating? He knew. And also, like, he comes from a very liberal family and also, like, a very, very sweet, accepting, like, wonderful family. Like, his mom and dad are, like, my two favorite people in the entire world. So... That's so sweet. And he's...

British right yes so anyway so when I told him it wasn't like something that was like a big shocker I don't think either to him and it was something that I was really upfront about I think the thing that was sort of I don't know I'm gonna preface by this by saying that I love Will so fucking much and I'm so happy that I'm married to him and like he's the love of my life he's my best friend there is like nothing that I would change about him and I I'm so happy that I'm gonna be with him for the

it was like a grieving process and kind of devastating to realize like I found this person that I love so early. Totally. And I think the first time I had like an upsetting moment with it when I realized that it was going to be like a problem for me was we went on like a club night out. I must have been like 20. Yeah, 21, 20 because we were in England. Yeah.

you can't get me with this one can't get me on that one bitches but um we were at a club night and someone had brought this really cute girl who was like sharing our table and i was like oh my god she's so cute and i was like talking to her a little bit and will and i were pretty fresh like we'd only been dating for probably four months and i started chatting with her and like

I I immediately got the vibe like she has absolutely no gay interest in me but that is also very attractive to me like I love that you probably hate me and I will love you for that um you're giving classic bisexual through and through yes the self-hatred runs deep but I was just chatting with her and I was having like the best chat with her and whatever and then like

at the very end of the night she was really drunk I was really drunk and she was like kiss me and I was like okay and so we kissed and then like we went home and I immediately felt really guilty by the way Will is like behind me like yeah yeah yeah like a secret kiss but we went home and like I started crying about it and I was kind of devastated and Will was like oh you don't have to feel

don't have to feel bad it's like you cheated on me i was like right in front of you and i was like no i'm sad because it's like that's the only sliver of that experience that i'm ever gonna like kind of get yeah yeah is like these like nights where like we're both these sexualized objects in a club and then like i have to shut it off the next day and like that's gonna be it i'm never gonna like cuddle a woman and have a favorite show with her and like be able to like brush her hair

and do all the sweet stuff that I want to do. No, but it was like kind of devastating. And like I had that periodically I would have these like moments of like, I'll call them yearning because that's what it was. It was like yearning for something almost like ennui. Like I loved Will so much that I was like,

Every time we would get deeper and deeper in our relationship, I would have these nagging, guilty moments in the back of my head where I was like, this is so good that it's never going to fuck up. And so it's so dunzos for me. It's so dunzos for me. We took a trip when I was 24 to Amsterdam.

And it was such a beautiful city. And we went with my, a few of our really, really close friends. And we stayed there for a month. And like, just hung out. It's like, also going from England, it's like a $45 flight. Like, it's so cheap to go. Traveling over there is so different. It's so, it hits so different. It's so nice. But, because you go into a totally different culture in 45 minutes. And so much cheaper. Yeah. It's so crazy. America is so different.

It's huge, by the way, if you don't know. Fucking massive. Big place. Big, especially Texas. Bigger than all of Great Britain. Yeah. Yeah. Texas. Yeah. Bigger than all of it. And you drive like five hours and everyone's got the same accent. Yeah. So it's like, okay, yep. But we went on this trip and I remember I sat down with two of my friends and I was like,

had like a big cry about it and was like really upset and just had another one of those wrecking reckoning moments where it was like we had such a good trip so far we were having so much fun i was like so in love and like i just had to ruin it for myself like i had to be like

and now i'm upset about being gay i just i had to be upset because i was like i'll never go on a trip like this with a woman i never will yeah like that's it the thing that i dreamed about when i was little is like just never not even knowing that that's what i wanted is never gonna happen yeah that's a really that has to be a universal thing that people have felt before like there's no way you're the only one who's ever

had that experience yeah and it's like also probably a guilty feeling too because you're like but i'm also i'm so in love with you so it's like it's not it's not to the detriment of my partner no it's just like that is a crazy feeling it's hard too because it's like will is so understanding and when we had that initial like

club night that turned into a two-day conversation about like us maybe taking a break so that i could explore my sexuality and then come back that was even like he's so sweet and so understanding he's like i love you so if you need time to figure this out like you can't have that while we're together but we could like break up and you could and i was like but i don't want to but i love you i love you i want to be with you forever and also you've only been together for four months you're kind of like in like a honeymoon period with each other like why would why would i potentially risk

losing the love of my life who you literally married. Yeah. So, like, smart decision on your part too, probably. Totally. But it's, like... Totally. Same kind of thing with a double-edged sword of, like, at what cost. But, like, at what cost either way. Yeah. 100%. And, like, the other thing is, like, it's not... As you can probably already tell, it's not like this is, like, a sex thing. It's not like I'm just, like, I just want to fuck a girl and then I can move on. Because if it was that easy... Then you could just do it. I could just do that. Yeah. And, like, babe... Something tells me Will would...

yeah it would be totally fine yeah totally but like even that conversation is like it's so like societally acceptable to totally sexualize a woman and not put her in the context of romance when it comes to like bisexuality and to like and it always made me feel icky the idea of like using a woman in that way to like to fulfill some kind of like gratification or something totally although

I think there are women who'd be okay with that. Yeah, and also I was gonna say, I think sometimes we take it too far with women too where we're so, like as women, we like respect each other so much that it's almost like,

and I don't want to sexualize you but then as a woman you have to like check back in with yourself and you're like I do like to be sexualized by someone I want to sexualize me that's also really true yeah that is so true and I think it's like a hard but you know what we don't have the dictionary and we don't have the language to navigate that oh no it's like a case-to-case basis yeah totally and also yeah I think it is it's just so much it comes down to so much like respect and like self-respect and then respecting girls and being like I don't know

I like you too much to like just use you for your body. But then it's like, I've been used for my body before. And I didn't hate it. Yeah. And I really liked it. So it's like, it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, it's hard to navigate that. And then it's like, also, I'm not someone...

really who wants to fuck someone unless I like them. It's like maybe demiromantic. I don't know what terminology we're using there. No, fair. But like I want to like someone before I have sex with them. Yeah. And like and then that feels maybe like problematic in a cheaty kind of way. Yes. Yeah. And also like the conversations I have with Will about I mean this is like we're getting in it but like the conversations I have he's like

And now that we've gotten a little older, I'm like, I know that if you have sex with a woman and you like it a lot, that's going to be a problem. Like if we're like, yeah, and this becomes the new, like his own insecurities, like he's obviously a full person in the group too. A hundred percent. He is my husband and I love him so much. And I would never want to invalidate him by making him feel like I don't think that he's sexy and I don't want to like, yeah, because I love him. And also I want to fuck him. Yeah, totally. I want to rip his clothes off. Yeah. So like that's it. And I

love that about him yeah that is so interesting i i also i really like what you're saying about like i think a lot of people tend to focus that grief on sex and like oh i didn't get to sleep with women or i didn't get to yeah like it it becomes sexualized even when i've thought about it in the past because i feel like i've made i don't know if it's a mistake but i've made

similar like contributions to conversations where I've been like yeah girls who've only been with one girl being like do you feel like you're missing out on dating other girls or sleeping with other girls usually I think my brain tends to think more like sexually yeah rather than the idea of like the romance of it of like I never got to go on a trip with a girl I never got to go like

the having a favorite show thing I'm like that is so sweet right like having why doesn't my brain go there before it goes to no because it's like that's the most common it's understandable it's human sexuality of course you're gonna be like and I also feel that by the way yeah I'm also like yeah that too I'd like to fuck a bitch with heavy naturals but like you know

you know yeah no of course it's all over the place but I think it's I think that's the grief I think that makes more sense for like the the concept of grief is more like I didn't get to have those experiences versus like sex is like yeah

I guess you grieve that too, but it's not like as like sad. I think the word grief like is so connected to sadness to me that I'm like, damn, you definitely do. I think people probably even like straight people maybe have to grieve a part of their singleness just closing a door in general getting rid of their freedom. Maybe. Yeah, I definitely heard that before. I think that's to be honest. I think that's where a lot of cheating comes from. Yeah, it's just people like not liking the idea of having to actually close the door totally. So I totally get that. I think

I don't get cheating. Yeah. I get that like form of grief. I also think that as someone as someone who is bisexual, it's also grieving being visibly queer and feeling validated. Totally. Like I will never walk around with like a woman on my arm in L.A. and be like, yeah, that's my bitch. Like I don't get to do that. Yeah. It's so weird.

weird and so like that is also part of it is that like I don't it sounds really silly and childish but it's like I don't get to prove my sexuality I don't think it sounds silly or childish yeah it's it's definitely like that aspect too and then like I always think like I would be such a good girlfriend like I'm like I would I would love to take care of a girl in the way that like

like that's my fantasy it's never like fucking someone it's like taking care of someone picking them up like so cute taking them to dinner like doing sweet stuff is like that's my like thing that I'm sad that I never get to experience that makes so much sense yeah I cannot there's gonna be so many people who are gonna comment on this and be like thank you someone said this thing because I feel like I don't even see this

I see so I'm obviously on gay TikTok I see so many people talking about so many queer experiences I feel like that's one you don't hear as often yeah I know well you know what's so funny though is the reason why I thought about it and specifically about uh grief is because

Sarah Schuster? Shower? Shower? Is that how you say her name? Yeah, I think so. I'm so sorry, Sarah. I love your content, by the way. She's so funny. She identifies as a lesbian. Lesbian, yeah, and uses she, they pronouns. Last I looked into anything. Okay, loving that. She was in Zoe's music video, so I've met her. Okay, there you go. Absolutely loving that. She made a video all about... Talking about that. Yeah, and I think her video, I could be wrong about this, but it was about...

how like immigrants to a different country have this humor what she called it there's a specific word for it I'm gonna send you the video because it's really really good but it's like almost like it's a form of grief while something is still existing like grieving for your home country even though it's still there and you could visit it you live in a new country you're grieving the life that you could have lived if you were speaking your native tongue and you're like living in your own country

A similar thing is like people who have a loved one who has like dementia, like you're grieving the person while they're still alive. Yeah. And that's it's the same kind of grief where it's like my sexuality is still there. The urges are still there. And I'm having to grieve the fact that I never get to experience like the. Yeah.

the satisfaction of them if that makes sense oh my god makes so much sense she says the most insightful shit she's so fucking smart she's so smart and she's really fucking funny i know she is and gorgeous so it's not the first time i've referenced her on this podcast either i love her she made such an interesting like connection because she's sober i think and oh i didn't know that she talked about some writing she compared like being able to not be

being able to be sober to being gay because she's already broken out of one like cultural norm. Oh, I love that. She's like, I don't know. I'd have to find the same thing. But like, I'm going to, I'll put both these like TikToks or videos in my description because she deserves all the credit. But just the idea of like,

breaking a norm that you're used to seeing she makes so many good connections where i'm like she's just damn i would have never thought about that like that yeah yeah yeah she's she's so funny and she's so smart and also i think that's with you i know sorry hey sarah come on the pod yeah please honestly i'm on the i'd be so intimidated though she's like too smart no i know what you mean but you're too smart too okay okay i'm referencing her girl um

But yeah, no, it's definitely something like as I've gotten older, I've come to terms with it a lot more. And I think I've like chilled out a little bit about it. I think there was a real, like if I ever had panic attacks in my 20s, it was because of that. It was like feeling this divide and feeling like the doors closing. Well, you're so lucky too that you had

a partner like will that you could have those conversations with yeah i'm sure there's a lot of women who are like thinking those thoughts and having to keep them totally to themselves oh a hundred percent and that's also why i preface this with like will is amazing like i wouldn't feel this open to talk about this on the internet if i didn't hadn't talked

If I haven't had this conversation with him, like, periodically and constantly. Like, I had it with him this morning. He was like, what do you think you're going to talk about on the podcast? And I was like, all those conversations we've had about me feeling a little bit of grief for, like, not getting to be visibly queer. And he's totally understandable of it and, like,

not just understandable like like accepts me in all forms and doesn't hold it against me that I feel that way yeah that's what I think is really important because he has he has his own level of self-respect and also like we're best friends yeah I love him so much he loves me so it's not like yeah totally and also that gets that like rids you of any shame that you would maybe have to like if you get to talk about things that's where so much of like

you get to like release the shame of like feeling those things and the guilt because like think about how guilty you'd be feeling if you felt those things and you felt like you couldn't talk to your partner about like i think i would like i don't think i would be able to drive me nuts yeah okay should we talk about sex sure what do you want to talk about remember last time we hung out we were talking so much about strap-ons

I'm like, I just remembered my episode with Trevi is literally titled strapless strap on. Wait, what? Yeah. Is there a strapless strap on? Yes. Which I'm like. I'm sorry you're going to talk about it twice in a podcast. But it's time to talk about it again. Please tell me that Adam and Eve is sponsoring you at some point. Help. Not yet, but come on. Or what's the other one? Isn't there another one that's like kind of a big one? Lilo should do it. Lilo. Honey. Guys. Guys, send me some products. Anyway. Um.

I actually just was playing like, you know that we're not really strangers game? No. With like, okay, well, it's like you ask questions, but they made a sex one. Oh, is it good? It's pretty good. Yeah. I was playing at the pool the other day with my friends. And then I pulled one that was like, how many sex toys do you think I own? And everyone like way guessed under. But that's because I get gifted a bunch of them. I have like far too many. No, I know. Same. Yeah. Because they just come in the mail and you're like, okay.

If you get sponsored by one sex toy brand, like I got sponsored by Balessa and it was like suddenly I just was sort of like an adult toy store. Yeah, totally. Same. Anyway, yes, there's a strapless strap on, but I was telling Trevi about it. Well, I've never gotten it to work successfully. Oh no! Is there not enough torque? It's

it's like shaped like this i literally did this all right so you guys you're watching again okay it's shaped like this so like this part goes inside of someone and this part goes in that would never other person but this part

tends to like come out. Yeah. Because it's so you kind of have to wear a strap on while you use it anyway. So it's kind of like defeats the purpose that like stays in you. There needs to be some kind of apparatus that holds it in like an elastic. Me and Trevi were like, we need to invent something. There's not enough. There's not enough for us. Well, there's like, okay. So have you seen those vibrators where like they slide into like the crotch of a panty and then you can control it remotely? So I'm thinking that but but

Yeah. Strap on. Well, we're...

why do I have this podcast I like get so nervous talking about sex but I'm like it's my podcast um no so like a lot of strap-ons have like a pocket for a vibrator oh that's cute yeah so it's kind of that sweet but the only thing is like then you just have like a vibrator just vibrating on you the whole time does it actually feel good though or would it feel like a little intense and then that's what I'm saying sometimes it's nice and then sometimes it also like it gets off just like a little and you're kind of like that's doing nothing for

it's on your left lady yeah it's not really it's not but then you're like i'm not i can't i don't have time to readjust this right now like other things are happening yeah there has to be a better design but also both at that point though i don't know i have not fucked with a strap on but i can assume like if you're in the giver position at that point you're sort of just like focused on that person's pleasure so it's probably not the most yeah it's not like top of mind at that

But then maybe we talked about this, but I feel like part of that is also just the comfort for the person receiving to know that you're also having a good time. I, yes, exactly. We did talk about that. Yeah. It's the perceived like comfort of feeling like you're just not back there, like slamming away. Yeah. Because I think like,

Yeah, I think, and I've talked about it on the podcast too, but like a big thing in lesbian sex is the like feeling that you're not both feeling the same thing at the same time and really wanting to connect in that way. And then like if you are someone who needs to feel like the other person is lost, then you can be really in your head that you're like,

you know you are like totally aware of what's happening and not at all lost if you're just like wearing a strap-on yeah no vibrator yeah but the thing is like i swear to god there's like phantom feelings of like i don't think it's not even like do you feel like you have a dick no it's not that as much as it's like you're just so turned on right by the act of like hooking up yeah like i think i don't know

I would assume there are girls who like giving blowjobs that, like, are really turned on when they give a blowjob. I love... This is how part of the reason why I know I'm bisexual is because I really fucking love giving blowjobs. And if I was a lesbian, I would not enjoy blowjobs. You definitely are bi. Yeah. For sure. No, for sure. For sure. That kind of told me. That was actually... I'm not even kidding. That was one of the things, like, when I was, like, really questioning my sexuality and I was talking to my friends, they were like,

And I was like, I really like cock. So it's like, what am I supposed to do? The word cock is crazy to me. Oh my god, cock. No! But yeah. You know what Will loves to say? Will loves to say, uncut cock. No!

I don't like it. Sorry. No, you really don't. I don't. So I don't like it. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's the same, obviously. Like if you're, you get, if you're just turned on, anything kind of feels good. Yes. Also like making out could be like, so if you're kissing in the middle of all of that, like it still is good. And you're like using your muscles. Like if you're using a strap on, you're also like,

doing a lot of blood flow. I think we... This is a controversial take to have on this podcast. Controversial strap-on take. I don't know that we give men enough credit for sex because I'm like, this is hard. It's a workout. It's a workout. The athleticism of it all. I'm like, damn. No wonder guys have cute little butts too. I know. They all have such nice... Yes. There's like...

things you do in that sexual act where you're like, oh my god, I didn't know I had a muscle there. Yeah. Even the pulling back has a muscle. All of it. You're literally like working out. Yeah, babe. It's tough. Abs on fleek afterwards. Yeah. Are people still saying on fleek? On fleek. Today we are. But my abs are not on fleek. But anyway, I digress. What else should we talk about about sex? I don't know. What do you guys like to talk about? Like,

i wish this was a live show right now yeah send us some questions down in the comments on sex do you talk about sex on like your when you live stream or like what what are you talking about when you do your live streams not really me imagine if my whole live stream was just talking about sex i would be watching it probably i don't know if you would because you don't like cops

you're right so i think you would really hate that that's what i was talking about but um you know i you know what part of it too is that our audience on twitch i love our audience on twitch but they like know us as a couple so i think it would be really fucking parasocial if i was like and here's the girth and this is the link like it would be so odd if like they knew way too much about our sex lives and also like will's a pretty private person i mean like relatively speaking so like

he would hate that as well. British. Pretty British of him. Very British of him. But I get that. Even now, like talking about sex, I try to make sure I'm very like vaguely talking about it. I don't want people to be picturing me with anyone when I'm talking about it. Oh no, totally. But I also, yeah, I think even like, well, we can talk about this because I didn't talk, but like even hard launching like a relationship. Hey, congrats by the way.

Congrats. But I definitely am like kind of stressed because the idea of having like a podcast about relationships and sex and then now I'm like and this is who I'm dating. I'm like I don't want people thinking about. Doing the math. Yeah. Yeah. It's like it was easier when it was a

a mystery of like who but even then I was never I'm I but also I need to stay true to the point of the podcast which is I hear you I want to normalize like talking about queer sex totally especially with women especially with women because we're so sexualized and people don't have access to like hearing about it yeah like

You don't have anything but porn most of the time. Which is meant for straight men. So it's like, it's not even for you. Lesbian porn, I'm like, I don't even watch lesbian porn, by the way. Because when you watch it, you realize that it's actually not for lesbians. Very quickly you realize it's not for lesbians. I mean, there's obviously some that is more targeted, but like, it just is like, what? For a long time, I could only watch gay male porn because I can't.

watch women fake orgasms. Oh, I know exactly what you mean. It makes me feel so weird. I'm like, she hates that. Yeah, no, I know. I can't turn it off in my brain. The whole time I'm like, she doesn't like that. But I was just talking about this the other day too. I think with the rise of like more point of view porn. Amateur porn, yeah. I actually am like,

okay, I can handle this because I at least can convince myself these are two willing participants. And like oftentimes it seems like they're couples. Yeah. So I'm like, you like each other. You're making money. Yeah. I'm contributing to you making money. Oh, totally. I can like disassociate. And it's way less like the like, like when I was like 16 looking at porn for the first time.

It was like all... It was... Heavily produced. It's like the cameraman's like talking behind the camera. Like you're like... Ew, creepy. Yep. And that's how old it was. And so you just kind of had to... The interesting thing about porn, I was reading a book. I'll send this to you because it's so interesting. Please. There's this artist and I'm so sorry. I'm going to... I'm not going to remember her name right now. But she wrote a book all about how she basically created an OnlyFans...

it's a different website, but like effectively an OnlyFans persona from an AI. You know that like, it's I think it's called like something dot undress. And it's like this horrible revenge porn thing that men use and like a big case came out about it in the Midwest somewhere.

about teenage boys using this like undress AI app to basically take pictures from their like girls from their high school and undress them and then jerk off to it. And this was a thing that was like literally happening last year and there's going to be a big court case over it because of it because it's like does that count as revenge porn even though it's fake? We don't even have good laws in America on revenge porn. No, no.

So it became this thing where she basically wanted to play with the art of it. And so she took selfies of herself and like really well produced photography of herself and then undressed herself. And made a whole OnlyFans? With her AI porn, basically. Wow. And she then wrote a whole book about men's reactions to this like AI porn character. She even created a bot.

that would talk to these men. And she basically like just earned money in the background by like doing this. But what she would do is like over time, she would add in a few, because AI doesn't get it right all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So like, oh my God, some of these photos are so fucking funny. I need to send you the book because it's just like,

so good and the closure of the book is a belly button ring oh my god it's really good but um there's somewhere she has like four tits shut the fuck up yeah and she was posting it like or she has a labia like like literally labia in her belly button and she would post it to the thing and men would be like you're looking different babe like literally don't not getting it oh the only time someone was mad about it there's like a letter in the in kind of towards the back of the book

when the AI porn has started getting really grotesque like getting stranger and the thing that the guy gets mad about is the color of her nipple changed she's got four tits and he's worried that her nipples are brown now no and it's really interesting because she's kind of playing with this idea that like porn in general especially when we were growing up to like piggyback off of what you're saying porn is

There is a an assumed falsehood to porn. You watch porn and you're like, this isn't real. These people aren't in love. These people don't want to have sex with each other. They're doing it for money. Like there's an assumption there. Yeah. It's almost comical the way porn is like the guy with the pizza and he's got sausage pizza for you. Like, you know what I mean? It's like it's almost comical. Step brother, I'm stuck.

I'm stuck. Oh my God. It's so outlandish. Why are people getting stuck in their washing machines? Well, that's for the plot, Shannon. God damn it. You're right. So their step sons will fuck them. Shannon. Shannon.

But like, how could I forget that? But all of that exists so that people are aware of the facade, right? Like it's not real at that point. You're jerking off to something that's like not real. Yeah. Fantasy. Totally. But then when you go on like OnlyFans, you're supposed to be having that veneer taken away. Yeah. You're like, this is, you are making this content for me. It's even scarier because people are like, specifically for me. Yeah. Because there's like full...

um like agencies that hire people to text the men yeah and women and people yeah on like as the person yes yeah like do people and i think that they must know that obviously and they don't care that's the thing is like it is in a lot of ways just people's fantasies like it's like i wanted the fantasy of be of texting this 24 year old woman who like is doing porn but then i think like

this got me thinking like how would i feel if i just made a bunch of ai porn and i set a bot off and i just made a fuck ton of money and it's not even my nudes i would feel pretty good do i care it's not my body yeah do i care where is like the line though i mean also it's weirder i guess if you were someone like you or me because we have like full personas but if you were like a random person who never really posted online before

Like, who cares? No, literally. And so I thought that was just really interesting. Her book delves into a lot of that. And I just think it's like porn and like sexuality on the internet has gotten so hyper real that I think it's an interesting response to that. Totally. You know, so like all of that is so interesting. I also think all the time about

Like, what will happen by the time we have kids? Like, if we want... I am scared for those kids. But also, like, will our internet be so much easier to, like...

keep them off of things like oh i see what you're saying i don't even know what will happen by then well like think about the fact that our parents didn't have computers growing up and how like not good they are at using them yeah like my parents were never going to catch me watching porn because they didn't know how to work the fucking computer they couldn't catch me they didn't know how to like put a wall up they didn't know how to block like anything they had to ask you for the password yeah yeah by the time i'm having kids i'm going to be able to be like

but also i don't know what the is the computer going to be well because the other problem is that now everyone has a computer in their pocket yeah so it's like that's why you know kids on the internet is so hard and your friends their friends have a computer in their pocket yes so they can show them anything anything they want um and i also do think that's why there's a lot of like porn sick people really like yeah it's like candy it's like too much of a good thing and i think and it's i mean i say too much of a good thing it's not a good thing but like yeah you know totally

really easy to get like an artificial dopamine high from jerking off every day to something totally especially if you're doing it multiple times a day i mean that's like i if you're an incel like it's the safest time to be an incel oh my god so true i heard this like crazy thing about someone was talking about how like men would go to war i read this whole book you need to read this book called when god was a woman okay it's so good it's all about like like early religions and how anytime there's been like a matrilineal um

culture it always gets dashed by some like Abrahamic religion that's like very like daddy based like everything has to be a daddy everything has to be like cock so that

that's the second time i'm gonna say that on this podcast i'm breaking the wall y'all i think this is the first time has ever been said on the podcast hell yeah multiple times you're welcome y'all yeah i know everyone in your audience is so excited about it they're loving it loving it but um it was really interesting because uh this historian was talking about how uh young men who are obviously like incredibly virile and like wanton are down to slam

they want to go to war because they need they like the church the government wants these men to go to war because they don't want them at home because they're going to be such nuisances like yeah they're going to be past they're going to be sex pests and like assaulting people yes yeah so they're like let's let's send them out to war and it's not just because like we want to conquer something it's because like we can't have all this whole population of young men

just doing nothing yeah before porn existed that's so crazy right i mean and there's still the problem to this day to this day men who can't get laid no absolutely not they're the scariest people i do actually think they're the scariest people the worst people but and also it's crazy now with like flashlights do they even need to no i know i'm like can you just know but but you know what shannon it's not about that i know if it was it is but it's also about conquering yeah

it's about like it's about it's about uh ownership yeah you know what i mean i don't have bitches it's so bad who would have thought we'd talk about incels on this podcast i know we're going all over the place we are all we are weaving we are ducking and we are no i think i saw something about that on tiktok too yeah talking about about like them sending men to war and also i think i saw something about them also picking

Men who were like that already bad like they would send them first Into war like from jails and stuff the past you guys go go. That's crazy No, it's also really funny because if you think about it, it's kind of natural selection you weed out these hyper sexual aggressive men Yeah, so that they're no longer like a nuisance to the community But also like what does that say about our lineage that we've basically we're breeding out of?

Horrible men At the same time Those horrible men Would go to these Other countries And Rape and pillage Yes they would And yes they would So it's not like They were like Not having babies Nope If anything They were having Babies everywhere Yes

So that's part of the problem. And that was part of the promise to them was like, you can't do it here, but you can do it to other people. God, that's fucked up. Yeah. That's really fucked up. Super fucked up. Did you see the documentary about that guy who had the thousand and one babies or whatever? I can't watch stuff like that because it makes me so angry. It makes me like when I even saw the title of it, I think I went on a tirade. I hadn't even watched the show and I was so mad. So frustrating. It's also like really terrifying in a way as like, uh,

person who will at some point have to rely on someone else's sperm yeah just to like watch that as like a concept is so disheartening and like confusing and then you're like oh do i even like want to have kids like who donates their sperm to a sperm bank why do i have to think about that and no i know also obviously so i know so many people who've used sperm from sperm banks and have beautiful amazing kids so it's not like it's just like in the back of your head you're like

it's another form of grief I think as a lesbian the grief you have to feel that I know I'll probably never have like my partner's DNA mixed with my DNA no yeah I hadn't thought about that but yeah it is oh 100% you're like fuck and especially I'm like

i'm like becca you're so cute what would that look like well you have to have two yeah so true there you go sorry so true yeah i have two will want kids we do yeah i think we do i think i just don't know the perfect timeline for it fair enough i would love to wait forever is he 32

31 31. are you turning 30 this year next year next year okay so you're 20 are you already 29 i'm i'm 29 and i'm i was 29 in may oh my god yeah have you belated again hey thanks girl that's so crazy feels good also like you have all the time i do i do and i feel that way after i had that conversation with you at the brewery i was like i do have a lot of time a lot of time i've got a lot of time darling do you think

do you think you guys want to have kids in england yes not here not here do you want to move there yes when well let's let this let's let that election go and let's see what happens and then we'll start making some choices um i'd like to stay here for a while and you own property here yes okay listen i own half a house it's still

It's more than I own. Well, I still need to do the half house, though. Have you been over there yet? No, because you got to come and hang out. Yeah, I got to come hang out. And re-meet or meet the husband. Re-meet or meet. We may never know. Yeah. Who knows? He probably knows. He probably does. I feel like if anything, I met him at VidCon. Yeah, definitely. And I think I did walking down a hallway one time with you. Probably definitely. And I was like, hey. I've definitely met him. Yeah.

I think you have but it's probably he holds a lot of love in his heart for you okay well same so there you go okay I love that we are like also ending on a high of like we love Will incels raping and pillaging but also we love Will we love Will so much your grief of not having a girlfriend but we love Will yeah no this is the thing that's what makes it like really easy to

not like forego that but also it's like i have such a comfort knowing that like that's the person that i get to be with so it's like it's sad but it's also like it's bittersweet for a very good reason like it's for sure yeah i can't believe you're married i'm so fucking married right now hey shannon thanks for having me on the podcast baby arden thank you for coming you guys you can follow arden on all of her socials i'll put them in the link below um anything special coming up

No. Perfect. So keep your eyes peeled for that. But I'll put all like the wedding TikToks and Sarah's stuff. Anything we reference today will also be in the bio. So check it out. Thank you guys. Aren't you glad I talked about strapless dildos again? You're welcome. Part two. Part two.