coming out and religion with Shannon Burns
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Okay, hi guys, my name is Shannon Beveridge. Welcome to X's and L's, a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex. Who doesn't love those things? Some people actually don't. And we will get into that in this episode. I'm so excited. Wait, first of all, elephant in the room, where am I, by the way? If you're watching, you can tell that I'm not at home in my bed. I am, in fact, in New York City in my sister's apartment. And I also, in fact, did just land off a plane to

um all of an hour ago and I do have to be up early in the morning for a job which I was flown out for so sorry for the quality difference I'm just filming this on my iPhone because for convenience sake I felt like that would be better for me honestly I don't probably not better for you but I don't even know if you guys do care

This is what you're getting today. And if you hear any sirens or car noise or street noise, that is just New York, which I love. It's my favorite thing about New York. I love to know that other people are alive. It makes me feel more alive. I love being in New York. I'm in such a good mood. I've been up since 8 a.m. West Coast time and it's 1130 East Coast time.

So I don't know. It's 830 West Coast time. I've only been up for 12 hours. I feel like that is, in fact, a normal amount of time to be awake. So I can't really complain. The plane ride obviously took it out of me just a little bit, but it's

I'm just so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be alive and in New York with all these other people. Anyway, we do talk about homophobia and religion and trigger warning SA in this podcast episode. So if that's something that will affect you, I totally...

totally understand and highly recommend that you do not listen to this episode but I will say in advance a huge huge thank you to Shannon Burns who is the guest of this podcast for being so open and honest and amazing in uh this podcast and yeah vulnerability like that changes the world and sharing your story changes the world and it makes people feel less alone and

And I am just so grateful for her for like for sharing that and being so honest with the podcast. So and with me, I don't take it lightly. I really, really don't take it lightly. And I think you guys will love her. I love her. So that's what you have to look forward to in this episode. Otherwise, I guess a mental health check in. Hey, guys.

Mental health. I am alive and in New York. No, my mental health is like pretty good. I hosted my friend Vanessa for a week last week and then I got this job opportunity in New York like the day she was leaving and

So I think when you have a job with less structure and then you host someone, I think even if you have a normal job, a job with structure and you host someone for a week, your routine gets off. I already don't really have that much of a routine. So then hosting for a week, my routine was really off. And then the whole time I'm thinking, but next week I'm going to get my life, my routine, I'll be back together, back to normal. And then I got this job opportunity in New York, which not complaining. Thank you. I'm very grateful for any and all work I ever do.

But I think that's just like for my mental health check-in. It kind of a little overwhelmed me just knowing that I'm not going to get back onto a routine now for another week. But you know what? I cannot complain. Life is good and I am grateful for any and everything that comes my way. So I am feeling good. I am really feeling good. But just for mental health purposes, that would be the only thing that was kind of on my radar this week. I mean, not the only thing. There's always lots of things.

There's always lots of things but that is like kind of the biggest takeaway this week is just feeling a little bit like a little out of control. But yeah, I'm so happy to be here and get to see my sister which is so exciting and her husband which is so exciting, my brother-in-law.

I love them both so dearly. Yeah, I was just thinking, I never really talk that much about the photo work that I do or photo video work I do. I feel like people know I do it. I don't know if you're listening to this and you're like, what the hell are you talking about? I sometimes do things that are unrelated to at Now This Is Living or my brand for like photo video for other people. And

It's been such a cool experience to do that and for it to kind of not be a part of my social media. Like, I don't talk about it as much. I definitely talk about it a little, but it's not something I go so into detail in.

So it's nice to have like a different facet of my life that's my own and like a little separate. That being said, a lot of the work I do is with one of my best friends, Katya Temkin, and she's an amazing photographer, creative director, videographer, editor, and she's

She does animation. She can do everything. She's so talented and she's also queer and I've been trying to get her on this podcast. So if you are interested in the photo video work that I do, unrelated to Now This Is Living, and you want me to talk about it with someone, I think she would be a great person to have on the podcast. So we all just need to tell Kat to come be on the podcast, but...

I have been trying to get her already and obviously the internet is a scary, a scary little place and asking someone to come on in chairs can be scary. So, but I still want, I still want her to do it and we could do it in such a fun, cool way. So Kat, come be on the podcast so we can talk about photo and video. I feel like I could dive into the internet being scary, but let's leave that for the future.

We talk about that so much. I think let's focus on this episode. I think you guys are really, I hope you really like it. I really love it. I feel like we cover so much in this podcast episode already. We can hold off on internet and internet feelings for another week. But thank you again to Shannon. And also, hey, New York, what's up? Okay. Okay.

Okay, hi guys. My name is Shannon Beveridge. I'm the host of X's and O's, a podcast where we talk about career relationships and sex. And today I have a very special guest all the way from Toronto. I'm obsessed with Canadians apparently because last week also Canadian, but this week Shannon Burns. Hello. Another Shannon. Another Shannon. Shannon squared. Thank God.

I'm not the only lesbian named Shannon, turns out. I have competition. I have competition. I have competition. Shannon is a radio host from Toronto. You may recognize her from TikTok or the radio. Can you recognize someone? The voice. Have you heard this voice before? If you're listening to the podcast, maybe. This is a recognizable voice. Shannon Burns is here in the building. The building is my house. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. We've been hanging out all week.

And I broke you down to the point. You broke me down. I'm like, you know what? You need to come on the podcast. But also I fully made Vanessa and Shannon change their flight to stay in Canada, in LA with me today. So they were supposed to leave hours ago. We were supposed to be on the plane right now. Right now they should, you should almost be home. Yeah, that's true actually. Yeah. But instead you're here. And I was like, if you stay, you have to be on the podcast. We couldn't stay away. Now we're doing it.

But I'm so glad also that we hung out so much because I do feel like we have a banter going now. Totally. I know. We've like hung out and we've known each other forever. A decade. That's crazy. Which is wild. Look at her over there. Also, Vanessa's here. Vanessa's our audience.

But yeah, we've known each other for 10 years, which is crazy. But I don't think before this year we've really like actually hung out. Yeah. Thank God though. We needed to. But yeah, we even know each other from Tumblr. So similar boat as me and Vanessa, if you watched last week's episode, um,

The Tumblr lesbians, they go strong and we stay for a long time. Yeah, seriously. We do not give up on these friendships. There's so many out there still though, which is nice. I feel like everyone's still kind of... And we still, I still follow so many people from... So do I. What was your handle on Tumblr?

I was, um, took a wrong turn for a long time because I have a bad sense of direction. And then I was Canadian Shay. So, cause I went by Shay on the internet instead of Shannon because Shay Mitchell, her real name is Shannon. Do you guys know that? I thought that was really cool. I thought it was cool too. And I wanted to do that too. And I didn't. Yeah. And now we're Shannon. I did it. And now I'm not. Um,

But I was very much in the closet and then didn't want my family to find me online. So I didn't use my real name. So I went by Shanston. I've been in the closet before too. Yeah, it's rough. For a long time. Should we talk about that? Yeah.

And should we talk about that? So, Shannon, you're a lesbian. I'm a lesbian. I'm with a woman. Yeah. I'm getting married to a woman. Engaged. Check it out. If you're watching, you can see this ring. Gorgeous. But what is your coming out story? Yeah. Obviously, you're from... Are you from Toronto? I'm from, like, right outside Toronto. Okay. So... But I...

downloaded Tumblr and then realized I was gay. I feel like I would have known a lot sooner and a lot younger if I really knew what it was, but I grew up in a really religious, strong Christian church, so it wasn't really anything that was talked about or there was no representation in media. I thought only Ellen DeGeneres was a lesbian. Yeah, I was like, Will and Grace, gay men. I knew there were gay men, but I did not think women were gay. But I think I didn't perceive women as sexual in general. I was like...

Which I don't know. That's a patriarchy thing. But anyway, okay. Yeah. So didn't really know what it was. But then now, of course, like so many queer people, I look back and I'm like, oh, that girl I was really into at school that I like thought about all the time. That's not normal. That's a gay thought. I have two older sisters and I would like after school go to the computer and look up their Facebook profile photos and just like look through them. And I thought it was because I like...

wanted to be with them and be cool or I wanted to be their friend. And I would think about them all the time. Now, in hindsight, I'm like, oh, I wanted to date them. Yeah, I love that. And all of that. So it's like so many queer people. That was a big part of the story. And then it wasn't until I was 18 that I came out to my family and then had to deal with all of that, which is a very intense. It's a very intense. We're going to get into that. Yeah. OK, wait, why did you even make your Tumblr in the first place, though? My straight life.

friend Matt from college told me to download it because I was I'm really into like film and stuff so he was like you should download Tumblr and then you found us yeah and then I like started following a few people and then it was like lesbians and I was like oh I really relate to this

I'm really into this. And I think about that all the time. I'm like, if this guy Matt hadn't told me about Tumblr that one day at school, I wouldn't have met my wife. That's crazy. I wouldn't be sitting here right now. I wouldn't have my best friend Vanessa. Literally. It changed my whole life. It changed my whole life. I owe Tumblr my whole entire life. I found Tumblr because this girl named Jenna Ann

who had... Yeah. So she was like... Had a YouTube channel called Lesbian Answers and she was... I was obviously doing the classic Am I Gay thing and so I watched her YouTube video and she was like...

all the lesbians are on Tumblr and then I made a Tumblr. Wow. And then the rest is history, obviously. That's so wild. I used to watch her videos as well. And then I actually was a part of a like lesbian YouTube channel. Like, didn't you do like a daily? Yeah. It was called Absolute Colors. There would be a topic of the week and then everyone would have a different day and then they would make a video. I was a sub. So if somebody couldn't do a video, then I would do it. But I was still very much in the closet.

So I would like make videos about being in the closet and like give me advice to other people. Were you not scared? I was terrified. But also I just like really wanted to do it. And I really loved watching that channel. So even being a part of it, I was like, oh, this is so cool. And it gave me an outlet that I didn't have because I was just like in my room on my computer. But I also think now it really shows that I just really liked making videos and making content. And that's what I still do now. And I love it. So I think that was really just the start of it. For sure. I think about that all the time because I

Every time I do any interview, everyone's like, what gave you like the confidence to post? I'm like, I can't explain it. It wasn't like I wasn't confident. I just couldn't.

not be alone with my thoughts anymore. I was like, I need to connect. And if this will do it, I will do it. And the internet was so different. It was like way less scary. I feel. Yeah. Templar, especially because you could be so open, but it was secret. Yeah. Yeah. But you did a really good, like you obviously were such a huge part of so many people's coming out and their queer representation that there is out there. I'm getting nervous.

But you are like it's you were such a staple in the community. So I remember, yeah, just seeing all your stuff. And I was like, wow, this this other Shannon's really doing it. Wish I could do that, too. I know you do it, too. It's so crazy. And I'm on your bed. It's wild. It is crazy. I film this in my bed. I'm like, is this weird? I like it. This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Whether you're selling a little or a lot.

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Okay, let's circle back to your coming out story. Yeah. Because it is intense. Do I need more prompting than that? No, that's perfect. You could do it. I'll dive right in. Okay, you could do it. So just to give full context. So my dad passed away when I was nine. Cancer. And then... That is not funny at all. No, it's not funny at all. Cancer. Next, my mom meets a guy whose wife was also dying of cancer. Isn't that crazy? They met in chemo. And then...

Chemo. None of this is funny. None of this is funny. I'm sorry. It was pointed out to me yesterday that no matter what I'm talking about, I'm always smiling. I'm always smiling. So it's, I'm not, I don't mean it. It was horrible. RIP dad. Um,

Sorry, mom. Okay. Dad dies. Mom gets remarried to a guy. Same name as my dad. Crazy. That is crazy. Brutal. And then they got married when I was 11. He started grooming me like very soon after that. I didn't know what grooming was. I thought he was just like giving me a lot of attention and he wanted me to be a special friend and all the things that come with grooming. And then he started sexually abusing me from when I was 13 to when I was 18 years old, which is such... Like your whole teen...

Your whole team life. Started in eighth grade, ended first year of college. That's great. It went on for so long. Also, by the way, I just found this out. Literally. I just found this out. Vanessa was like, you should talk about the part that's crazy. But yeah, so that was a huge part of my life and a secret that I just kept with me and it was happening every day. And I knew what was happening to me because I'd like watched Oprah and I knew what sexual abuse was. Like she would have episodes on it. That's yeah. Thank

you Oprah yeah thank you Oprah I met her and I told her and I so then I knew what it was but I didn't know how to get out of it like I didn't know I don't know and I was why would you you were a kid yeah exactly and I was so terrified of him because he was such a scary person and he was very abusive and he was doing that to me so what else could he do to me and yeah all of those things so yeah it was just a secret that I kept and then it kept happening and it was getting worse and worse and worse and then eventually I

One day I was camping with my whole family. We would do every summer. And for some reason, he had to go back to our hometown, which was a couple hours away. And while he was back home, he went through my room and he found my journal where I talk about being gay and I talk about Tumblr. And I was like talking about these girls that I had a crush on and all this stuff. And then he started blowing up my phone being like, you're you think you're gay? And he was talking about and I talked about him abusing me. So he was like, you think that I abuse you?

all these things I think I yeah you were by the way obviously yeah so then in that moment I had planned to keep this secret my whole life and in that moment I was like I had something came over me where I was like I have to tell my mom like this today's the day like my whole family's here he's not here he's gone yeah so this is like my chance and then yeah so I just like sat my mom down we were camping so I like pulled her into the car and then told her I was like I'm

I'm being sexually abused by your husband. I'm gay. Because I'm showing her the text on the phone and he's saying, you think you're gay? So I was like, okay, also side note, I'm gay. That being the side note, that's so intense. It was so much. It's a huge thing in your life too. It was huge, yeah. So then she, my biggest fear too, like he really brainwashed me into thinking that no one would believe me.

or that they would think that him and I were having some sort of affair. Yeah, so then like he convinced you it was like consensual. Yeah, he told other people that it was like afterwards that it was consensual or that I had come on to him and he fell into the weakness of like this 13 year old girl and he's like 60 years old. It's so so silly and people actually believed it too which is wild. So silly. I'm like this is all so silly.

And then, yeah, it's crazy. So then other people, that was even a thing. There's people still out there that think that like it was me that did it because people said I was like a promiscuous teen, which I also wasn't. It was so bizarre. And then, so came out to my mom in that moment. Luckily, she believed me. She was so supportive. Texted him, I never want to see you again. Called the police. We got him arrested. All of that. We went and told the rest of my family. Everyone was very supportive. I like had such a great support system through all of that. And then over the next couple of years, we went through the whole course.

court process to get him convicted and he was charged with three things got convicted on it and ended up going to prison but the coming out part of that is that

My family was really supportive in the abuse stuff, but because we come from such a religious community and it's very Christian, the firm belief in that is that homosexuality is a sin. So that is something that was a lot harder for them to come around to in all of that and still something that we're dealing with right now. So that, yeah, it's unfortunate. And we talk about it pretty often, but they're very firm in their beliefs and I'm very firm in my beliefs and we...

have a lot of conversations where we try to meet in the middle. That's not, it's not even a belief. Yeah. Right. You're firm in who you are. Yeah. It's not that I believe that I'm gay, like I'm gay, but I believe that it's okay. Like, so they're part of their belief is that you can be born gay and

but you it's uh almost like a challenge that god has given you to overcome so it's like i can be gay and they understand that but it's the act but they're like yeah so it's like the fact i'm getting married you're like giving into the sin of exactly so my like i've been it's been described to me before like because my dad died and i had to grow up without a dad that's a challenge that i had in my life similar i'm born gay this is a challenge that i know and that you should like

I hate. And then like be alone the rest of my life. Like that. Yeah. Why? Or no. Okay. This is the thing that confuses me about this also. Wait, before we move on.

Can I just give you a hug? Yeah. Thank you for letting me share. That's like not, that's so intense. It's so wild. And you're so sweet. And I'm like smiling the whole time. And by the way, this is, this was my life. It's like, that's a lot. Yeah. And I'm sure people will listen and have had similar experiences. But anyone that goes through it too, it's like you, it really changes your hindsight on things. And I think that's why Vanessa always says I'm really nice and kind. But I think it's, um. She's fabulous. Yeah.

But I think it just like gave me a hindsight like the fact that I can like go on a trip with my friend or like sleepover at someone's house or like do any the fact that I am allowed to wear pajamas to bed like things like that is not so crazy. But it like I'm so grateful for like every moment that I'm no longer in that. So it's like just brightened my whole life. It's wonderful. It's not so great. Okay.

I'm gonna cry though I know I love her too that's that makes me emotional I I know it's not the same and I would never compare anything to anyone's whatever but I feel like anyone who goes through anything it can have like if you can look at your life with a silver lining like

my queerness that's kind of my queerness for me because it was so dark and heavy and then now every day I'm like I can't believe I get to live this life and like if you can take a bad thing and make it that it can be

good yeah it's like totally and through this whole thing too i i remember thinking to myself like i can either let this ruin me or i can like make something up yeah so then it there's a lot of determination that came with that and also like however much i i think in like a letter to you which is a video i made on youtube a long time ago for buffer festival which is in canada i said something about like you can only feel as much happiness as you feel pains you can see in people sometimes if they haven't gone through a lot you're like

Wow. Like your threshold of happiness isn't even as high as mine. I can get like so much. I can get so much happier than you. Right. Like sweet. Yeah. Like we have to we have to make it a silver lining otherwise. Totally. And it's nice that we don't laugh or cry. Literally, if we don't laugh, we'll cry. I think that's all it comes back to. It really does. The religion thing. Yes.

What's confusing to me about all of that also is like, do they want us to marry men and then that poor man, we will never love him. Either be alone and just don't act on it, which I always think is so annoying because I'm like, that's...

You are going to go home to your husband and kids and your family and have the best time. You get to feel love and I don't. And I don't. So it's like what you're. Or you. We should marry a guy. Yeah. Or like hope that maybe there's like enough therapy out there that could help me eventually realize that I could be fixed. I have to probably talk to them more about that. And what is the goal? What is the goal for you? Probably for me to like end up with a man. Yeah.

But like your threshold of loving a man is never, you can't. But they do. It's not fair. When it comes to my family specifically, they know Morgan, my fiance. They love Morgan. We hang out with them. We don't, we take off our rings. Like we don't acknowledge that we're,

together but that's also because there's a bunch of nieces and nephews in there they don't want to have to explain it yet yeah so they want that so that's kind of what I mean like there's rules and there's conversations that we've had and we meet in the middle so that we can still have a relationship with each other because this is something yeah that they believe strongly in and I want to respect them as much as I can

So I go through that just so that I can have that relationship with them. Because you love them. They're your family. Yeah. And they have these beliefs and like they're wonderful people and this is what they believe and that sucks that it's not what I believe. So then I'm like, okay, let's meet in the middle. I also think too, like Morgan and I talk about this a lot because she doesn't have a relationship with her mom. Mm-hmm.

And because she's the type of person that will be like, okay, I'll just cut you off. And I'm not, but I think the reason that I'm not is I just don't see how that will spark any change. So I'm like, if I keep showing up and I keep showing up with Morgan and we're super nice and we like are great people to hang out with, I think, then maybe down the line. Maybe it'll change their opinion. Yeah, exposure therapy and all that stuff. Totally. I feel like I felt the same way when I was in college in Oklahoma. Yeah.

I was going to transfer to LA and go to a school here. And I came to LA and I like looked and toured all these schools after my freshman year of college. And then I was like, what good does that do? You know, like I'm like, I love my friends. My friends love me. I feel like what if I stick around and then one day they'll like,

gay people because I did that but I feel like that's like almost like a you have to be a little bit of like a masochist to do that to yourself because no one should have no one should do no one should have to but someone must right someone must okay do you feel I'm gonna ask you the

The heavy question we talked about before. Do you feel at all like we're coming back to the sexual assault of it all, but do you feel at all that people try to invalidate your sexuality because you were assaulted? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. It is something, especially in the religious circles, people want to find a reason for things. Yeah.

So, yeah, that and the fact that I came out the same day that I opened up about the sexual abuse. That was definitely a part of the conversation. And there were family members that did think that or maybe still do think that, which is I don't want to say that it's valid because I don't think that it is. And I don't believe personally that there's any correlation between the two. And that's because I just think.

The way that I explain it to other people is that you can be abused and I was abused for years and I'm sure that that didn't help my relationship with men and maybe it would have affected it more if I was straight, but it's not going to make me attracted to women. Yeah. And it's not going to make me fall in love with women. No. Or like,

want to have sex with women. Like that's not, that just doesn't work that way. So it could make me asexual maybe. I don't know that I'm not in that situation, but yeah, I don't think it made me gay. You can't change sexual orientation. But it is interesting that that is like,

Such a conversation. Societally, people are like, oh, that's why. Because I was saying to you, too, like, when I was in high school, my psychology teacher was like, who here in this room thinks people choose to be gay? And, like, almost every kid in the class raised their hand. I can't believe that. And I was in the back like, should I raise my hand?

I was like when that happened then he went around and he was like why would someone choose that and the biggest one the thing that most people in the class like agreed on was because someone was assaulted so they're like yeah if someone got assaulted they may choose to be gay and then he told us all these facts that it's like

the same amount of queer people as straight people are assaulted. So it's like, it doesn't. And why does this person turn gay and that person doesn't? There's no, there's no scientific evidence at all to back that up. But it's obviously just like societally, like people just cannot wrap their head around it. I feel they're like, it has something that,

something happened right something had to have happened something happened why would they choose that and we're like yeah why would we choose why would we really hard to choose this i don't i'm not i don't want to put all these like no burdens on my family and embarrassments and have to leave my church community that i've known my whole life like i had to leave everyone that i knew behind yeah with like leaving the church and all of that stuff which we have to talk about yeah okay so

I feel like everyone jokes that you're like kind of like from like a culty situation. People love to say. People love to say that. I think that I don't want to throw that term around because cults are very serious and they are. It's a lot. They're very serious. But you are from a very intense religious community. So I say cultish. The church that I belong to, I believe, yeah, is like came from Mennonite. So it's a lot of those things. What is Mennonite? Like, you know, like the Amish. Yeah. Like that. Okay. Yeah. So, um.

Yeah. So it's kind of just like a lot of it reminds me of kind of those same principles. So I remember like growing up, I remember when women were

We're able to start voting in the church. Like a lot of people that I grew up with don't believe there's an equality between men and women. Like a lot of women believe. Why would we believe that? Yeah. Why would we want the same rights as men? But they believe that like men are the head of the household. And at the end of the day, like their decision or their beliefs or thoughts count more than the woman. A lot of people just choose to like stay home and raise kids.

children like women it's very yeah yeah that whole thing so baby yeah a lot of that I never bought anything on a Sunday till I was like over 18 we didn't wear like a lot of jeans like we would have to wear I went to church twice every Sunday that was very much like the Lord's Day yeah

And it's a big community and you kind of you marry within the community. If you want to get married within it, you have to become a member. Wow. I became an official member when I was 18. I took seven years of night courses of catechism in order to like do my profession of faith. It's called OK to like become an official member. I remember literally texting a girl from Tumblr like at my thing because I was like gay and then still was like, yeah, let me become a member.

Okay. What is your relationship with like God now? So I believe in God still. And I always have my whole life. So I just don't think it would be weirder for me to not. Yeah. So I have a good relationship with God. I just don't like the organized religion aspect. I think there's so many, so much politics that goes into it. And a lot of people that praise or like...

like tell you to do something but then don't do it yeah a lot of hypocrisy tons yeah it's crazy and it's like yeah I don't know well and I'm gay so they they wouldn't let me say anyways even if I wanted to I got kicked out so it doesn't matter but you do have you have a relationship with God yeah I have a relationship with God for sure which I love so obviously not the same at all but I'm coming from Dallas like super Christian area but

but I had such an interesting relationship with religion I feel growing up because my parents are from Pennsylvania so but I grew up in Dallas so I was around all these like very Christian people with my own parents being very I was like a Christer what is it Christmas and Easter I would go to church you know so I didn't have like that kind of vibe but all my friends did and then I'm gay so I was obsessed with my friends so I'd be like obviously I need to go to the

Sunday school with you I wanted to go to church with them but I just wanted to hang out with them and I went to like religious camps and stuff and my parents were just like sure like whatever you want to do and also probably like a week off in the summer thank god but really literally literally but like I went to like catholic camp at one point even I'm like I just wanted to hang out with my friends the first girl I loved her parents were very religious very religious like was she out

No, no, we got like outed together kind of hurt. I've told this story eight billion times I every time I tell the story like I'll go on another podcast and it comes up every time I give him on someone else's podcast and People now at this point are like we get it Shannon, but I'm like it is we're out in here But I her parents put a baby monitor in her room and like found out that we liked each other through the baby monitor they came to the door and they're like we have to talk to you and then she left and

Two hours later, she comes back. Were you just sitting there being like, what the hell? Sitting there and it was like 11 p.m. Oh my God. So I was like. What do I do? I had no idea what to do. Yeah. I was just sitting there like being like. And after like 20 minutes, it was like, oh my God, it's for sure that. They have to know. Yeah. Her parents had like a Bible study with her in that time, in the two hours while she was gone.

And then after that, too, like they had Bible studies every day, basically her and her mom. Already or because of this? Because of it. Wow. Like as like a punishment. Like, yeah. And it was horrible. And we had already the saddest part of it is that we had already stopped hooking up with each other because hooking up. We used to make out. That's it. Because of how religious she was and how religious her parents were. She and I had stopped.

kissing because she was like we're going to hell and I was like we are we need to stop you are right we are and I wasn't even like I didn't grow up that way which is such a interesting it was just like the environment but it was weird it was like by proxy it wasn't my own family and I kind of always knew that my parents would love me no matter what I feel like my parents really really raised me with like an idea of like this love is unconditional yeah and

Also, I had an uncle who I who just passed away like last month that my parents like always kind of implied they thought he was gay. Right. So I feel so bad because I didn't have a relationship with him towards the end of his life. But my whole life, he's kind of the reason I knew I could be gay because my parents would talk about him and be like, well, your uncle and he's and they and they didn't care. Yeah. And

And then he just died and I never got to tell him that. It's just sad. That's so sad. But it was like I had a different like growing up experience than my friends. But I feel like I almost grew up in like your cultish idea like vibe because everyone. Any sort of like conservative community where everyone believes this thing. Yes. It's terrifying too because you're the outcast. Like even just having those thoughts is wrong. And then being the outcast but then also fitting in is like so confusing. Right.

I feel like I could have gone my whole life fitting in if I wanted to. I could have kept my hair long. I could have like worn the dresses. I could have married a guy. Like I thought I could. And then I was like, and then I got on Tumblr. Fucking Tumblr. It really did. And yeah, if I hadn't figured that out, give it a couple more years, I would have been married and had four kids by now easily. Totally. And as women, I feel we're already not taught that like,

we're sexual beings or like we should value our own like pleasure anything so I I thought for sure I felt the same things my friends felt kissing boys I was like this is the feeling and I had a boyfriend and I thought that too I had so many boyfriends I was like got it that's it yeah I was like okay this is it I didn't even I didn't even think twice until I kissed a girl and I was like

Exactly. I'm like, oh my God, no wonder you guys like this. Yeah. I literally hated it. Or even flirting with a girl. I was like, oh, the tingles. And before that, I didn't know I was flirting. I was just like, I love all my friends. I love my friends. So much. My friends are the best friends. I love my sister's friends. I want to hang out with my friends all the time. I want to sit in their lap. Why? I don't know, but I do. Okay. Let's talk about homophobia. We're just crossing on all the like sexual. This is so. All the things.

It's Shannon's dead dad. It's literally like the most intense subjects and I've been smiling the whole time too. I'm like, I love to talk to you Shannon. And I'm glad to be here. And homophobia. Woo. I know I kind of intro'd you before you do radio and stuff, but you do a lot of TikToks. You make a lot of content. Yeah. And you're forward facing. I feel like maybe people wouldn't even know you're gay all the time, right? Um,

I make it pretty obvious now. Yeah, but I feel like you could watch a TikTok of yours. Oh, yeah. Not now. No. But sometimes people will like unfollow me when I do post about being gay because they're like, oh, I didn't know this. I just found this out. Yeah. Okay, but so... I didn't know there was a cure in it.

But have you, so have you experienced homophobia online? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Or in real life. Yeah. TikTok is a scary place if your videos end up on the wrong side. If you go viral anywhere, it's not good. Oh my goodness. I made a video the other day just being like at a queer bar watching women's hockey, being like how incredible that this is like full of queer women supporting. And it still today was like blowing up of people just arguing and like, I don't know.

know how did it even get on their for you page yeah it's so wild um but when I got engaged I was obviously talking about that non-stop because that was the greatest thing that's ever happened and then okay crying um and of course because I host a radio show and I talk about myself and I talk about pop culture and all these things um I went on my radio show and I was talking about the fact that I proposed to my fiancee and we're getting married and she proposed back it was a double proposal it was so wild um so I was sharing that whole story

And I got this email from a woman who said, hey, congratulations on your engagement. Although I do have some comments. And she went on to say that by me announcing that engagement, she just feels like that's for more mature audiences. So maybe that's a story that I should have told like later into the night on the radio rather than the middle of the day. Because she wouldn't have to want to explain to her 7 and 10-year-old all about that.

and what is there to explain literally get it they're just like obviously it's so easy and she it was so interesting and what really stuck out to me is that she was like i'm very um supportive of the non-heterosexual communities but i just don't think that this is something and then would go on to talk about how she thinks it shouldn't be equal with perfect yeah so i'm like you're just the whole email just is a huge contradiction yeah and it doesn't make any sense

And you can't congratulate someone. You're like, good job. Yeah. You can't congratulate someone and then tell them to be quiet, like in the same sentence. It doesn't make any sort of sense. So obviously I made a TikTok about it because that's what I do. As you should. Yeah. And that was really great because then there was like more conversations like happening about that. I got to go on a talk.

show and there was like articles about it so that was i think it really furthered that conversation and a lot of people were um yeah talking about that because it's not an okay thing to do don't say that if you have nothing nice to say also yeah why yeah it just doesn't make sense what gives people the right but okay also didn't you you had a really viral tiktok

About your parents not Your mom not Yeah Being like okay with your family Not congratulating you Yeah I don't know why I filmed myself crying Because I never have done it Listen But it was the day that I Totally

told my mom I was going to propose and it didn't go like I wanted it to and I came home and I just could not stop crying and I couldn't even tell Morgan why I was crying because I couldn't tell her so then I went into the bathroom and then I was crying and then I recorded myself crying and I just like had that clip on my phone and I was like I think because it was such a monumental yeah moment in my life that I've been waiting I don't know so I was like I just have I don't know

I'm not judging you. Yeah. I think... I was just thinking recently. I was like, why did I record myself? But I'm glad that I did because that clip... Sometimes you like need to see it to remember. Yeah. You're like, wow, this really affected me. And I just like document every part of my life. So it's that... It's such a big thing. So even though it's bad, I document it anyways. And then...

Yeah, I was interviewing Jonathan Vaness from Queer Eye and I had just gotten engaged and they had just gotten married. So I was asking like wedding advice and they were so overly enthusiastic and so excited for us to be engaged, which was really sweet. I did ask them to officiate and they did say yes. So I'm going to hold them to it. And then, um, um, so then I just pieced those two together and then I, it was like me crying and saying like, yeah, my family didn't congratulate because they didn't, didn't acknowledge it because they didn't.

Which they can't do because they don't want to support it. And by congratulating us is showing support. So they didn't. So then, yeah, just piece those two together. I said, yeah, my family didn't congratulate me, but Jonathan Van Ness did. And that's super sweet. And thousands.

Thousands of people have congratulated us since. And it's just been overwhelming. I mean, the support is always more than the hate. Yeah, it really is. The hate really sticks with you more than the support, unfortunately. The whole... From my experience. Yeah, the whole month after we got engaged, I was just a wreck. Like, I was so...

I was just crying and I didn't really feel like I could celebrate it because I was just so miserable over like, I don't know, all my worst fears coming true about my family. And then to see all of that support really just like made me feel so much better. Totally. And I started planning the wedding after that and just all of that stuff.

Maddie Ziegler's mom said she'd walk me down the aisle. So my wedding is going to be full of just like celebrities. Can I go? Yeah. The internet is scary. It's scary, but it's great. It's great. It's such a double-edged sword. Like there's so much positivity, but there's obviously so much negativity. Yeah. Have you had that? Mostly, no. I've been so lucky. Every time I talk to anyone about it, I'm like,

I have stayed in such a pocket of the internet for so long. Like, I'm so happy that I just stay with the lesbians. I very rarely reach outside of it. Right. So I've experienced... I feel like some of your, like, lesbian drama has hit the mainstream. But they don't care. Oh, okay.

Oh, okay. They're just, they're not. If straight people hear about my lesbian drama, they're like, okay, got it. Right. They don't, why would they care? Lesbians care. And they're not going to like come in being like, you shouldn't even be gay. They literally don't think, they're like, okay, interesting. I know people who are like, tell me about that. That's interesting. Straight people. And they're like,

interesting that's it there's no like judgment but I have had like homophobia in real life obviously coming from Texas and I had yeah my ex-boyfriend called me and be like I heard you're a dyke now okay you have a small penis

You choking over there. I don't even know if it's small, by the way. I have no reference. It's the only one I ever saw. And I'm like, could be little, could be big. I don't really know. All I know is I never want to see it again. Yeah, literally. Any of them. Oh my goodness. Yeah, I'm good. Can I ask you a question? Because this is a podcast about relationships and sex.

What do you think made you realize you wanted to be with your girlfriend forever? Your fiance forever? That's a really great question. I've been best friends with Morgan for like 10 years. I met her probably like around the same time that I met you guys. So I...

Always had a crush on her and I always really enjoy like never got sick of talking to her. I don't know. It wasn't even like something clicked and I was like, oh, I want to be with this person. It was just like I maybe always knew that. But then the more that we started talking, the more we started spending time together and actually dating. I was like, oh, yeah, that is my person. And now I just can't imagine having a day go by without her.

Like there's no one I would rather spend every moment of my life with. And we still cannot stop talking, you know? So that's like, we never run out of things to talk about. Do I know? No, I don't know. You guys, the other side of the best friend story. I was just going to say that. The opposite of us. Literally. That's the love story of being best friends.

So you and Vanessa realized that you wanted to be in each other's lives forever. But you realized that was not romantically. We were friends that knew we wanted to be in each other's lives forever. But then eventually realized like, oh no, it's like as my partner. Yeah. As my lover. Oh my God. Did you guys kiss when you first met?

Yeah, we kissed like the second date we met. We made out for sure. And then anytime. So we were always attracted to each other. Yeah. But we she lived in North Carolina. I lived in Edmonton, Alberta. Like we were like, this is not. And I really wanted to go through my slutty face. I really wanted to get around. I was a religious girl who realized that I was gay and then just like full ascended. You literally had years of trauma you needed to get. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is like reclaiming my life.

Your own sexuality, of course. So I was like, I can sleep with whoever and I'm gonna. And I will. This keeps coming up on this podcast that I've never had a threesome. And I can't believe we just, I just overheard you the other night be like, I've had a lot of threesomes. I'm like,

Tell me how. Yeah. Mom's probably like, why hasn't it happened to me? I've never talked about threesomes before. Ever. Yeah. We don't have to. No, that's fine. This is, if there's anywhere to talk about it, it's the gayest podcast. I've had a lot of threesomes. I don't know. It's just, I've, it's come, the situations have popped up and I'm, yes, man, you know, I'm like,

And sometimes I think, like, let's have some life experiences. This will make a great story. They are great stories. I love them all. Yeah, and it's like I find myself in situations. And I've, yeah, you know. I just can't believe I overheard it. And I also can't believe it's, like, such a. At this point, if I don't have a threesome by the end of this podcast. I'm surprised that you haven't. But I also don't. It's because I'm always in. I'm such a serial. And, like, I really only got to know you this week.

you are a serial I am a serial blogger so then I'm like it's me and you girl yeah but I don't even know if I want to ever that's fair it's a lot it's like you gotta really think about twice the stuff I think I like the challenge you know also you're usually you were usually like the third I've never not been yeah I think you're the star who can remember I don't want that much attention that's the thing like I feel like it seems like

I'm like the the job I have the life I have I feel like most people who do what I do are kind of more like

it's not in a bad way but like do want attention or like are kind of like what is the what is the thing I'm thinking of I don't know how to explain it but I because of the internet that I grew up with and the way I started online it was so different it was like kind of the nerds like the people alone in their room it wasn't like the vloggers now it's become like no I don't know why I keep looking at you now I'm like help me like help me explain hiding on

And now the internet is like exploiting yourself. Right. The internet when I started on the internet was like way more like secretive, not like I'm in public filming myself. Yeah, look at me. I struggle still because of that because now the internet changed and I don't know how to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't like doing it. Right. I feel like the threesome thing is kind of like almost like weirdly like the same where I'm like, I don't want to be the star. Yeah. But I don't, I would never, I don't think want to be. Shut up. I'm not doing it.

I wouldn't want to be anyone but the third. Yeah. But the third is the star. Is the star. And I don't want to be the star. I want to be...

I think that's why I'm never going to have a threesome in my life. That makes sense. Wow. That really makes sense. I just outed myself like that. That's okay. It made me realize that I do want to be. You do. Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. Also, you being a radio host, you have more of that. I host a show by myself five hours a day. So I'm like forcing people to listen to me. And if I'm not on the radio for a week, like this week, I'm like, can't wait to get back out there. Yeah. I'm like, put me on the pod. I need a mic. Yeah.

I made the weirdest metaphor ever. No, that made sense though. Like I like that correlation. Thank you. Do you want to get in here? Let's wrap this up. Speaking of threesomes. Oh my God, you guys, should we do it? And wait till you guys see what happens after the podcast.

Go to our OnlyFans to keep this show going. You have to get your head in here if you want to be. Okay, do you have anything you want to ask us? Not really. Your two favorite Shannons? I know, isn't that so wild? You have two friends named Shannon. I do love a Shannon. Two lesbian friends. We're sad to leave, though. We are so sad to leave.

This feels like when you go to summer camp and then you have to leave at the end and you're like on that. No, and you have to just stay. Yeah, the spiritual high. That's a whole other religious. Like, wait, Janet, me and Vanessa cuddled a little bit this morning. Did you? Like we did it. We literally touched our. That's nice. I woke up this morning. You remember it?

I think it was because it was the last night. I know. Literally, I woke up this morning and I'm like, I can't believe there was a whole pillow. And then I climbed into bed. There was a whole pillow in between us and I still had my arm like, I just touched her arm like this. And she touched my arm back. We were so far. It was like an arm's length, but we were like, we love each other. You guys, don't get it twisted.

anytime this comes up we're like we don't like each other anyway i will miss you guys i will miss you too this has been great thanks for hosting us oh my god for the whole this was a lot like that's a lot of time to spend with people and i would do it longer for more than a couple days it's like it's just like not normal because you never have to yeah no it's weird like you never like it never happens that way but i know you spend like a lot of time yeah yeah you more like

Okay. It's like a weekend. Yeah. And then you go home. But. No, not me. Not us. I will always overstay my welcome. And now we're here another night. I cannot believe that. That's so funny. Best. This is going to be the best night of my life. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it is. We'll keep you posted. Should we keep recording? Wait, are we all going to sleep in this bed? Three people already did sleep in this bed this week. I'm not going to tell you who. Me.

me Vanessa and Lila okay and then tell us them who thank you so much for watching the podcast if wait Shannon do you have anything coming up that people should pay attention to I'm gonna I think I'm gonna ring Kristen Stewart so gay you have to watch all my celebrity interviews because they mean a lot to me yes I'll follow me on it's on yeah on everything right yeah follow Shannon everything she's queer she's amazing thanks for having me anytime so nice

That was so lovely. Wait, I think you might be my favorite guest I ever had, which is awkward because Vanessa's right there. Vanessa's right there. Aren't you glad that finally you, after all the begging this week, I finally got on the pod? Wait, should we say one last thing? What? The very end of the podcast about how I didn't like Shannon for a second. Me?

You didn't like me? My biggest fear. Oh, no. What? Is that why you didn't let me sit on my side? No. You didn't like me? Do you not know this story? No. Oh, my God. But it's not real. It is.

That you tweeted. Oh. I'm so sorry. I really thought it was funny and I didn't think twice about it. But it's. I made a joke and it didn't land. But it's because we had broken up. I. And you didn't know. I had no idea. I know. I thought. Can we say what it is? Yeah. In an interview. Which is even worse. No, I didn't. No, it was a tweet. It was a tweet. I did say it to her face though. Which is hilarious. Oh.

Oh my goodness. Okay. So I interviewed Fletcher. It's okay. And then it's okay. And then I made I don't even remember what the joke was. I just something about being there's like another Shannon in town or something. Yeah, we were like taking the the

the photo together it was just a picture yeah yeah and I said oh I guess there's another Shannon in town it wasn't even bad you didn't even say anything bad we just had broken up and like just yeah and we don't know each other that well and I was like wait that was my friend and I was like fuck Shannon for like literally five seconds and then Vanessa and you became friends you didn't do you didn't even do anything wrong and I didn't know you guys were working out

I know. You didn't do anything wrong. I was a sensitive girl at that time. Just bad timing. Bad joke. Bad timing. I was being bibbit. And it was my own situation because we never told anyone we were dating or not dating. So why would you know? You shouldn't have known. You didn't do anything wrong. I just was like, fuck. You're like, fuck that, Shannon. I'm like, why the fuck would you say that, Shannon Burns? I'm leaving that at the very end of the podcast. People are going to be like, oh. That's the first time I'm going to even name drop an ex.

And I'm going to leave it in because it's fun. And I did it. And Shannon Burns did it. Okay. Let me name drop all the others. No. Mic cuts out. Okay. Love you guys. Bye.