Are Queer Spaces Segregated? with Jade Fox
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This episode today is sponsored by Tomboy X. You know them, you love them, I know them, I love them. They have been a sponsor of this podcast since the very first episode and I appreciate them so much. They are awesome. Tomboy X is queer founded and queer owned and they make sustainable size and gender inclusive loungewear, swimwear, and underpants.

underwear. And they've been in business for over 10 years, so they know a thing or two about making underwear for you. You can use my code Shannon at TomboyX.com. That is Shannon at TomboyX.com. Thank you again to TomboyX for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. I love y'all. I love you so much. I'm wearing your underwear right now. Can't show y'all that, but it's the truth. Okay. Hope you enjoy this episode.

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Okay, hi guys. Welcome back to X's and O's. What's up? How's it going? Happy August. I can't believe it's August. Time's flying. Time is flying. Happy Leo season, if you celebrate.

If it's your birthday anytime soon, happy birthday. I don't really have that much to say in the intro today. I want to keep it really short. Last week's was sort of long, so I'm going to keep it shorter this week. I love Jade Fox. I think that she is an incredible content creator. If you're not following her on all her platforms, I highly suggest that you do. YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. She also has a Patreon. You know, I love Patreon. I still have my Patreon. If you're not a member yet, you can sign up at nowsislive... No.

patreon.com slash Dallas is living. But yeah, check out Jade's Patreon to check out Jade show on YouTube and also just her YouTube videos that she makes all the time. She's awesome. And

So, so, so highly, highly, highly, highly recommend you check it out. Things that are new for me this week. I meant to mention this last week, I guess. I started to work out at a gym. Okay, so if you start seeing some gains, you won't. But if you did, that's why. But again, you probably won't. But I'm just trying to like stay healthy, keep my brain healthier by moving my body and...

I mean, yeah, I wouldn't mind getting like a little bit more like fit, but that's really not the goal. The goal, I think working out is so, so good for your brain. So if you're stressed or like have any kind of anxiety, whatever, I highly recommend you checking out, working out, checking out, working out.

Check out Working Out. Ever heard of it? No, but it is like one of the easiest things for me to put on the back burner for myself is like my actual physical health and like going on walks and working out and stuff like that. It's so helpful. So getting back into the swing of that, I think it was like two or three weeks ago now that I signed up with this gym. So we'll see what happens. We'll see what happens. You'll see what happens. If you're watching on YouTube, you'll definitely see what happens. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple or anywhere else, then...

pretend I'm jacked right now, okay? That's what I want you to picture in your head. Close your eyes. Imagine me yoked. I can't even take myself seriously. And while we're talking about all those platforms, if you have any time today to rate this podcast, whether you're listening on iTunes or Spotify, or if you're watching on YouTube, if you just give it a thumbs up, it really helps a lot and it means the world to me.

You can give it whatever rating you want. Obviously, five stars sounds great to me, but you can be honest. But I would love if you guys would rate the show. It means the world to me and it's really helpful. So if you don't mind, give it a go. It's not that hard to do. If you're just sitting around thinking, listening.

please give me a rating okay honestly that's all I have for the intro this week I hope you enjoyed this episode I think it's really good I really love Jade again I know I already said it but I think that she's just so entertaining and awesome so I hope you like this conversation and can't wait to see you next week love you bye

okay hi guys my name is shannon beverage welcome back to x's and l's a podcast where we talk about queer relationships and sex and today i'm joined with the greatest best creator highness what did you just call yourself the baddest baddest all of it uh fashionista love all of your fashion content so much

You can follow Jade on all social media platforms. But yeah, today we're in my bed with Jade Fox. -Yep. -Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me. Is this where Raven-Symoné's at? Oh, fuck yeah. Do you want to meet her? -She would love you. -Yes! What? The way I blow that bitch's DMs up? -No way. Okay. -It's insane. Literally, they asked me for people, guests. They were like, "Can you... I'll send them your shit."

easy thank you yeah oh my god of course you would love that would be great she's so cool i would love that so intimidating i was like i've literally grew up with you yeah and we're like kind of the same age right how old is she i think in my mind she's like early 40s but that's not no i think she's only a few years older than us she's just been successful her whole life she because like when she was raven

She was probably only like two or three years older than us, if you think about it. Which is crazy. Yeah. Did that thing happen at your school where all the girls just adopted her personality? Oh my god, yeah. It's crazy. You had whole clones, girl. You don't even know. She probably knows. She probably knows. Her wife doesn't know. She said, who? Raven, huh? Anyway. I can't. Anyway.

Hey guys. Hey guys. Okay. Okay. On top of everything, you're also, you have your own line of clothes too. Hill, Hill Fox. I almost said Hill Fox. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we're on a little bit of a hiatus right now because making clothes is a lot of money. Yeah. And it's a lot of work. Yeah. I am one bitch. You, and you're doing everything all the time.

I also watched something where you said you want to be a creative director. Like, that's your dream? I just don't stop. Yeah. No, there's a lot of things that I want to do. I mean, we were, like, briefly talking about it out there. But just, like, I love being creative. I love making things. But, like, what does it mean to not do this? Like, what would it mean for it to exist outside of...

the vlog or like video content that I've been doing and creative direction, fashion, design, and like all these other little avenues, not little avenues. These are big jobs. Huge avenues. Like huge, big career things. Yeah. I'm just interested in them and I'm trying to,

I don't know. Just see what I like. Yeah. Well, you're so talented. I think you have like some of the best thumbnails on YouTube. Are you serious? I'm not kidding. The ones that you... I love your thumbnails. Thanks. Yeah, they're so good. And like, I think that all your setups always look so good too. Like you're really like thoughtful about like the vibe of your YouTube channel, which how did you start your YouTube channel? Because it's definitely... You definitely were more comedy before, right? And now would you say you're more...

I'm an adult and I have bills, so I can't just be talking shit online no more. Well, you do a lot of fashion, but you're also like, it's very like personality based too. Like it's you. So how did you start on YouTube? I was just being bored and gay. I was in college.

in Virginia, shout out to VCU, VCU alumni. And I was learning how to do video editing through my classes. So when you're an advertising major-- Is my dick out? My pants have a hole in the crotch. But yeah, so when you're an advertising major, you just take really random classes. So I took a lot of just ambiguous creative classes where like,

no one really knew what it was for. It was almost like just to get your mind thinking creatively more than anything else. And so through those classes, I started learning video editing because I had to do video projects. And then my friends learned that I knew how to edit videos. Then I started editing their stuff. And then my friends were also on the step team. So I would like go in GarageBand and make their songs. And so I was like learning all of these different pieces of software. And then I got bored. And so I was like, well...

I have some shit I want to say. And so I started making content in my dorm. I used to do poetry. No way. Yeah. What haven't you done? I put it in black and white. It was crazy. So yeah, that's like how it started. And it...

All my friends are black and gay. - Yeah. - Still are. And so, a lot of the conversations that we were having, just no one was having them on YouTube. It was like couples and like studs, like body rolling, you know, on the platform. But like, nobody was like talking about the stuff. Or like, even like the humor, like making the jokes that we were making or, you know, with the insights that we were discussing. And so,

I was like, well, I'm gonna do it. And so I brought it over to YouTube and then through there just started making fun of gay people and then called them sketches. Yeah, here we are. What year was that? Like, what year would you say you actually started doing like YouTube? Like 2012. Okay. Probably. Yeah. Cringe. Great. I mean, gross.

I think so much of the YouTube thing and like being successful on YouTube is being the first of your voice on YouTube. Like it really... None of us are qualified. No. We just did it first. Yeah. No, when people like ask me like what made you like brave enough to do it? I'm like, I didn't really know what I was doing. Like I just did it. I just did it. I just... And I didn't know it would turn into like...

This obviously. Mm hmm. Because this didn't even exist. No. Like, did you even have AdSense when you first started YouTube? No. Yeah. Me either. Just for vibes. That's the only reason why I was there. No, literally. I started YouTube just so I could talk to my Tumblr following at the same time. Like YouTube was just like the easiest platform to upload the video to. Yep. And that was it. And all my videos were unlisted. Like you couldn't find them unless you followed me on Tumblr. Mm hmm.

And then it just like organically grew. I graduated college and I was like, I guess I'd just try to do this. And also at the time I had a clothing line. So I thought YouTube would be a good way to like,

i knew i already had this like audience on tumblr and i was like i mean i guess i could get more so that more people would buy these things and then i was just like woke up one day and i'm like wow i'm making more money off the adsense than i am on the product that i was selling yeah and then here we are today and now i'm making clothes again in 20 are you wearing what you're what you're making this hat yeah it's very cute and your hat

Okay. Look at us. So cute. Two dykes what are making hats. Of course. Of course you are. Gayest shit ever. Gayest shit ever. Making hats. Probably down there making carabiners and bootcut jeans. I'm making a carabiner too. I literally do. I also have a sweatshirt for you if you want it. Okay. Yeah. Or a t-shirt, whatever. What is this? My sushi station sign. Yeah.

Is that a euphemism? You know, I didn't think about that until people were like, "Shannon, that's so gay of you." And I was like, "Ew, yeah." But I didn't mean for it to be. There used to be an old place like on La Brea that was all signs. Do you remember that?

it was like all like old signs like kind of over Fairfax area and you could just go in and buy whatever you wanted and they were selling that yeah it was all like sushi station or be like letters and like crazy stuff wow and one day I was walking home from I think the flea market like the Melrose Trading Post or something walked in saw that me and my old roommate were like that would be so funny to put in our living room and that was like two apartments ago and now I moved here

my roommate here is like much more femme girly like this didn't really make sense in our pink living room got it so i was like but i'm not ready to part with it yet and it's great when

When the lights on, like if the lights are off in my room and I'm watching a movie, it's like perfect ambience. There's lights in it? Mm-hmm. But I put them in there. Okay. Mm-hmm. So I'm into a project. Got it, got it. I'm into a DIY. I feel like we're actually really... We have a lot in common. We're the same person in a different font. Literally. Because I also do creative direction. I also do like photography. I know you just went to that Sony thing. Yeah. What was that like? It was very cool. It was... I'm so annoying. I am...

So you're supposed to go and like try out a bunch of different cameras, see what their lineup is, see what you like. And hopefully, you know, if you don't have a Sony, adopt Sony into your creative journey. And so it's just kind of like, you know, a petting zoo for cameras, basically. But I decided to go and I was like,

I'm going to make friends. And then I just went and just like told everyone my business. And, you know, I got probably a little too close to the Sony people. They know a lot about me now. I think that's a good that's a good problem to have. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

As we shoot on a Sony. Shout out to Sony. Hit the email. You already know what to do. Oh my god, I have a connect there too if you want mine. But I'm sure you have. You have everything. You know Raven-Symoné. She's been in your bed. You got sushi signs. I love to help. Helping is like my biggest love language, I think. Like acts of service. Are you a Virgo? No. Oh. I'm a Pisces. What?

i don't know if i like that oh the oh started nice and then i i with pisces y'all just be lying really yeah tell me more but y'all don't know you're lying so i hold i hold space and empathy for y'all wait why am i like how because the pisces will be like i'm over you no you're not really yeah i think pisces drink their own kool-aid and then y'all be around and finding out

i'm definitely find out don't worry i find out for sure um but i love a pisces i'm always in trouble what are you leo okay and we're in leo season yeah i know did you have your birthday already or is it coming it's coming up it's in next week oh my god happy early birthday thank you are you excited do you have a birthday plan multiple birthday plans i do i have a loose plan

I'm gonna do it solo because I'm not I'm not doing no birthday dinner fair I'm cut it out with the birthday dinners um it's just the splitting the check I know it's so awkward but also it's your birthday then you shouldn't pay I shouldn't but like because I then you're like I'm also inviting you to come celebrate me yeah and there's a lot of things you have to think about with a birthday dinner like

-We're in a recession. - Fair. -Some people have kids. -Who are you inviting? Right. And then you gotta pick a vibe that's like, appropriate. And with LA, it's like the vibe can be great, but then the people are weird. Fair. It's just a lot of thoughts. So I think I'm just gonna do like a little solo dolo spa. Oh. Do you go to like a Korean spa? You gotta get naked in those. You do. You do have to get naked. -I don't know. -Is that not your vibe? I...

On my birthday, I don't want to be the one. - - Like, if there's anyone naked, I want to choose who the other naked person in the room is. Okay, that's so fair. I've only been to the Korean spa one time and my nipples bled.

what have you ever done it no i'm not going to am i not selling it for you no i went for someone's birthday which i was like so a group of people okay i didn't know you had to get naked i get in there i'm like oh okay yeah i didn't know disrobe i don't love to be naked around other people i think it's probably from like a

that kind of like locker room, like a lesbian locker room mentality. Not the male one, but the one where you're like prude. So, I don't love to be naked, especially around friends. I'm like, "I don't know if I want you guys to see all this." Right.

We get there, we're all naked. They're like, this is what-- Wait, sorry, pause. So, you don't have robes on, you don't have like a towel? You can have a towel, yeah. Okay. I was clinging to my towel. But a lot of people were not. Okay. And then when you get there, they're like, "What service do you want?" And whoever I was with at the time, we like picked this like scrub thing. I didn't know that meant I would have to get butt ass naked in a room with her and this other stranger. Not our friend, random woman.

And they like scrub the fuck out of you with like a salt kind of thing, like a body scrub. And you like start on your stomach. They're rubbing your back. Then you roll over to your front butt ass naked. Then they're scrubbing your front. Scrubbing my nipple.

They bled. They literally bled. It was so aggressive. And then I was like in tears, but like I'm the type of person who goes to the dentist to feel everything and I don't say I feel anything. Like I was just like, okay, you've got to get through this. You've got to get through this. And then she goes, flip on your side. So then I had to flip on my side. She's scrubbing the fuck out of my armpits. I was like, this is...

I mean, my skin felt brand new. I was a baby. Well, yeah. She must have taken like 20 layers. I was like a new person. But my nipples hurt for like two weeks. Literally rubbed raw and bled. And I was like, can't you see that they're bleeding? That's insane. It was crazy. But some people love it. I...

Wow. Did you did you know you can get all that? I'm never doing that. But you could go it is amazing if you don't you don't have to do that scrub. They're also really aggressive. Like they just throw buckets of water on you. Like they're just I don't want that. I don't want that. I'm glad I can say I did it. I'm glad I can say I did it. But I don't need to do it again. My nipples are big too. If they bled it'd be a scene. Mine aren't small. You were just a little spotty. I'm trying to just I'm like

What are my legs? It's a little spotty nip. It's fine. It's fine. It's cool. This episode today is sponsored by Tomboy X. You know them. You love them. I know them. I love them. They have been a sponsor of this podcast since the very first episode, and I appreciate them so much. They are awesome. Tomboy X is queer founded and queer owned, and they make sustainable size and gender inclusive loungewear, swimwear, and underwears.

underwear. They obsessively fit test to make sure you have all day comfort and they have sizes from XS to 6X. I highly recommend the briefs. That's what I wear. They are my favorite. They are so comfortable. They're so cute. And they look really good if you're wearing low rise pants and you just see like the beginning bit of the logo at the top. I think they're so cute. And if you're a tomboy like me, it fits. But even if you are femme, it fits. They have

Have a size or a look or a style for everyone. And they've been in business for over 10 years, so they know a thing or two about making underwear for you. You can use my code SHANNON at TomboyX.com. That is SHANNON at TomboyX.com.

at tomboyx.com, www.tomboyx.com, and use my code, Shannon, to get 20% off your order. Thank you again to TomboyX for sponsoring this episode of X's and O's. I love y'all. I love you so much. I'm wearing your underwear right now. Can't show y'all that, but it's the truth. Okay. Hope you enjoyed this episode. But anyway, okay. Happy early birthday. I somehow stole that whole story to talk about myself and my bleeding nipples. Sorry about that. That's crazy.

That's crazy that she did it and she's like, I don't see anything. Oh my God, I know. I don't think she cared. But honestly, I wouldn't either. It's kind of like people who wax vaginas all day. You're like, oh my God, my pussy's out. But then to them, it's like... They're like, this is the 40th I saw today. Exactly. Have you ever gotten a wax? Oh, yeah. Really? One. Yeah. I've never. In there. Often or you've done it one time? I've done it twice. What did you think about like...

Thing is having, can I say pussy on this? I don't know. I don't know anymore. You can say whatever. Yeah, no. Having bald pussy is kind of cool. Yeah. A little bit. It's kind of like, the thing is pain is a part of life. Okay. And so the pain that you feel, it's not incredibly unique.

it's like a pain that's kind of familiar it's like if you've gotten a tat okay that's dramatic not a tattoo do you have tattoos i do okay it's it's i mean it hurts but it's not but some people like you're fine yeah i mean obviously it can't be that bad if girls are doing it all day every day all the time but i'm i can't do it yeah i mean i guess if i had to it's just the butt part that that's when it gets weird

that's when it gets a little strange when they make do you make do they flip you over I mean they don't like you know like do it themselves they tell you you know kind of move over and this is when shit gets weird when they start asking you like okay lift this leg move this leg this way and the only reason why they're asking you to do that is so that they can get in the nook and the cranny I don't like that and it's like

I don't know. It's just weird to have someone so casually just... Inner. Yeah. Because, like, usually when people are there, it's a different environment. Oh, my God. Different vibe. Yeah. Also, this makes... My ADHD is coming. Sometimes you'll hook up with a girl and you can tell she's, like, self-conscious about... And I'm like, I don't know how to explain this to you. I'm not, like, looking. Like, I'm not, like, down there trying to, like...

examine you. You know what I mean? Like that guy in Toy Story where he's like, tinkering with Woody to make him better. Literally. I'm not down here to like, take notes and examine. And girls will be like, so self-conscious and you're like, this is not the wax. Like, this is not, like, if I don't try to look, I could literally see nothing and do everything I want to do. Yeah. You know? But like,

I also think that lesbian standards... Do you consider yourself lesbian? Oh my god, yeah. Okay. I do think that lesbian pussy standards are lower. Like for... Like what we... We just like all of them. I think that it doesn't have to be like perfectly manicured. Oh my god, no. If there's a little bit of a smell, it's a pussy. It's supposed to have a little...

a little ripe you know what i mean like it's supposed to be a human fleshy part yeah and the and have the experience of a human fleshy part and i remember being in middle school and be like no it's got to smell like bubble gum no and be bald and it's like okay it's honestly better if it doesn't works no it's literally better if it's not so clean yeah but clean some people are into like

straight from the gym type. I don't know if I'm that. I can't say that's me either. Yeah.

Yeah, rinse it off. I can't say that to me either. Hoser down. Just like a little bit before we do that part. Yeah, just a little bit. Okay, should we talk about relationships? Why not? We're lesbians on the internet. We are lesbians on the internet. That's all the fuck we talk about. Yeah, right? I mean, I would love to shut up about it, but I can't now. You're in too deep. I'm very deeply into it. What's up with you? What's up with your dating life? Yeah.

Like, how do I casually bring this up? Dating life feels strong. But I'm single and I am experiencing life as a single person that is now responsible for fulfilling all of my own needs, which I do tend to outsource to women at times when I feel safe and it feels appropriate. Fair. So fair. Have you been...

someone who's been in relationships for most of your adult life or like am i a nikki fan yeah like i've been in two five-year relationships damn near back to back there was like i i want to say that it was a year in between them but i don't think it was like a full year i think it was like maybe seven months eight months in i started talking to like god my ex and then a few months then we made it like official fair enough yeah i have a similar

track record except for i have like shorter but also quick back-to-back mm-hmm mm-hmm uh just happens it i feel like in the lesbian community especially like

Women are just such lovers that, well, I guess I am. I'm like, if I meet someone and I really like someone, I'm like, I'm not going to. Let's lock it in. Yeah. And also I'm not going to like sabotage things. I'm definitely not like a sabotage, like not going to explore something if it feels right. You know, I have friends that are really, honestly, it's probably good for some people, but they'll like create a boundary for themselves and be like,

i'm not ready yet so i need to like take a step away from this like i'm more like what does that even mean i don't know because i'm like i don't think that's real like i feel like if you meet someone and you like them how the hell always ready for love always literally bring it on obviously but are you ready for love now feel that that's not a love that i'm

Looking for right now. Mm-hmm or not. Not necessarily the type of love that I feel like I need right now I need self-love. Yeah, I need a love on myself and I'm being joke. I'm joking, but I'm like that I do No, like I I was talking my friend the other day about how like oh You know people ask. Oh, oh, do you wanna get married? You wanna have kids and I'm just like I unless there was a person in my life who I can see those things with and

I don't want them. So like, when people are asking me, do you want to be in a relationship? It's like, if there was a person I could see that with, then yeah. Yeah. But right now, it's like, it's just me, myself and I for sure. So it's hard for me to like make that call. But dating is, it's a social experiment. It really like I'm on. What's that game where that doll shoots people? Um, squid game. Yeah, I was gonna say hunger games. I'm like, that's not fucking right.

Yeah, it definitely is a social experience. It's also you learn the most about yourself. Yeah. Dating. Yeah. I didn't think that that was going to happen. That was actually one of my fears. I was like, oh, I'm going to get out of this relationship and then I'm just not going to learn about myself anymore. Boy, was I wrong. You know, there's a lot to learn. So you self-identify as avoidant? Yeah. And do you still, do you feel like that's something, do you think, okay, I think that's

I feel like this generation right now, a lot of people are like talking about avoidant, anxious, whatever. Like attachment styles in general has become like a really big conversation. Yeah. My sister is a therapist and she's like, yeah, she thinks that we're leaning on them

too hard. Therapist? Like, no, no, no. The attachment styles. Oh, got it, got it, got it. Oh, for sure. Where she's like, she's like, yes, obviously, like language is good to have and like these things are good to know about yourself, but also like,

there is-- it can happen to a detriment to everyone, where if you, like, think, "I'm avoidant, I'm only avoidant, I only show up as avoidant," then you can, like, sell yourself short of who you could be as a partner. And, like, obviously, the ideal role would be secure for everyone. Do you think you could become secure? Yeah. I think that-- Okay. I think that when we say, you know, when you find the right person, then, you know, things kind of click in.

I think that when it comes to attachment styles, that is especially the case. Because it wasn't until my last relationship where I realized, I was like, "Oh, okay, I'm avoidant, but I'm with someone who's patient." But I'm with someone who, like, I can be... Like, I can be flawed with. -Oop, my bad. -You're fine. Um...

Like, I can be flawed with this person. I'm not gonna do and say everything correctly with this person, but I'm with someone who understands, like, my ethos. And so I do think that it's possible to, like, be-- to have whatever attachment style you have,

and then just move through it. Like, I don't think it's like a, you need to identify with it so heavily. It's just like this thing that's about you and it's like, okay. - 'Cause I also feel like it can become a crutch for people. - Oh, no doubt. - Like, I think it can be easily like a thing where if you were like anxiously attached, then like to be like, well, you know that I'm anxious. Like it's like, but are we not both working towards success?

security right right right like so or like avoid either way right yeah like i think people can lean on it so hard into like being like and this is who i am it's like i don't think it's an identity right that doesn't fly with me no i'll stop talking to you i had an i had an ex who like had a cocktail of mental illnesses and not a cocktail there would be truly though yeah quite the recipe um

And like something manic would happen and she'd say it, you know, resulted in like harm in some type of way. Like thrown my way or her way or a chasm of the two. I'd be like, hey, we should talk about this. And she's like, well, I'm mentally ill. And I'm like,

Well, for sure. But like, what do we do about that? Because I don't... I'm not arguing with you. Yeah, like, that's... For sure. Boots. But like, what do we do now? Like, how do we move through this? Because there are, you know...

like, consequences and also, like, certain responsibilities that we have, you know, for ourselves with everything that we come with, with everything that we're born with. - Totally. - And so I do fully have experience with that notion of, like, "Well, this is just how I am." - Yeah, identity. Like, this is-- - I'll push you off a cliff. - Yeah, I mean, at least break up with him. - That. People aren't too afraid to break up. - It's-- Well, yeah, it's hard. - Yeah, it's not the '20s and, like,

you know, this man. Yeah. But do you feel like you're good at breaking up with people considering you had two really long relationships? I'm just imagining that. Ah, you gassed me! Um, see, here's the thing. My...

Yes, I do, actually. It's just, you know, the situations were unique themselves. Of course. But I do actually think that I'm pretty good at telling people where I'm at and being pretty strong on it. Because at the end of the day, like...

This is my truth. Yeah, you can't what are you gonna do? Tell me no, no Yeah, you can't right but also you clearly are down to work on relationships if you stayed in them for as long as you did What do you think is like your what are your biggest like shortcomings in a relationship mine? Yeah, no patience really so it's like as soon as like like oh, oh There's an issue. Hmm. Well, we don't solve it in a week. I don't know what's gonna happen So like I have no patience

And I, you know, I've learned it. I'm getting better at it.

I know-- I see the value in it now. But like, I think before I would just like notice something's wrong and I'd be like, "Oh, well, let's fix it right now." But certain issues just aren't that easy to fix. - For sure. - Or fixable. Like something you just kind of like learn to live with. - Yeah. - Which is a wild concept to me. It is crazy. Because we're never gonna find someone who is 100% exactly what we would pick. Like, that person doesn't exist because people are not perfect people, so...

you obviously there's things you have to like sacrifice and be like okay i can love you through that yeah but also we should not sacrifice some things are

some things we should be stronger on i believe i agree i'm also like talking to myself in my past i'm like i should have recognized some things earlier in other situations yeah same i'm also like the opposite i'm like really patient oh well but i mean i have other problems i'm very defensive i'm like i'm not saying i'm i'm like really defensive if someone comes to me with something

which I think is like an avoidant attachment kind of thing. But like when someone comes to me with a complaint or something, I tend to think of it as like a character. Like they're coming for my character rather than just being like, this thing just hurt my feelings. Like I had to have a partner once like sit me down and be like,

when I give you feedback it's not me saying I think you are a bad person or a bad girlfriend I'm telling you you did something that hurt my feelings and I was like damn that is so true like my brain immediately is like well let me prove to you I'm good like I you know that I'm a good you know that I'm a good girlfriend you know that I like I would never do and I'm like

I'm like totally missing the point. Yeah. That's like when you're, when you like told your mom or something like, hey mom, I didn't like that you did that. And then your mom's like, well, I guess I'm just a shit mom. Literally. I guess I'll just never buy you carrots again or whatever. Literally. I know. Like as soon as, it's crazy because you know, like just someone saying something to you when someone cares about you enough and gives you something like that, like in a way that feels like,

loving and safe like you actually can hear it so much better and I remember like that I will always remember that conversation and like take it with me into like every other relationship because I'm like

that is so valid and it was in a moment where things were calmer because i'm also i can be impatient in that i want to be like let's fix it right now like if i get in a fight i'm like let's why would we go to sleep without fixing it or whatever and now as i've gotten you want to sleep on it literally and but as i've gotten older i'm like oh my god wait when we slept and then we came back together we were two different versions of ourselves

like both of us yep so it's crazy that you're still learning at like 32 so many things all the time no no but like when you were younger didn't you think like by first of all i thought by 32 i'd be like married and have like oh very something very that are you from virginia originally i was born in washington state oh wow i know but how long were you there

I don't know. I was a military kid. They got me up out of there quick. Gotcha. Because I'm from Dallas. Dallas is gay. I've heard. I didn't see it. Texas, right? Yeah. I didn't stay. Ever. I went to college in Oklahoma.

not gay, by the way. I mean, obviously someone's going to be watching this and be like, there is a very unique little gay community in Oklahoma. I'm sure there is. It's one bar. Literally. That they go to. Literally. No, I'm sure. I mean, there's gay communities everywhere now, which is awesome. But when I was in college, did not feel very gay. And

And then I graduated college, went back to Dallas for like eight months, didn't do anything really, and then went to LA. So I never got to like experience the gay culture in Dallas that much. Maybe you're not missing much. I think I'm good on it, but I do hear a lot. I get a lot of people. I definitely have a pretty like big Texas following. I think just because people...

like I've had this like following for a long time and I feel like it's just like people are just growing up with me and definitely like my story at the beginning was very relatable to someone from the south or you know that area because I was like sorority girl oh classic cowboy boots and a little mini skirt well less skirts but definitely cowboy boots work and also like wear my vans with my dress to my date party oh

And people were like, Shannon's just chill. She's not gay. Yeah, sneakers with your dress. Which, wait, can we talk about fashion? Yeah. Because you are so fashionable. My manager told me she watches all of your videos for like fashion inspo for herself, which I'm like, respect. We love a viewer. Did that come like, because you were obviously, you were doing comedy videos and then you started doing more fashion stuff. Were you always into fashion? And then you just were like,

Let me talk about it. I've always been interested in it, but for some reason, for the longest time, I didn't think that I was qualified to talk about it. Fair. Like you don't have a degree in like... Or just like the way that I dressed, I don't think was very trendy. And so therefore, I didn't think that like I could have a voice in fashion. So when I first started making the fashion content, it was less about clothes and like

aesthetics and looking like outfits and more about like gender affirming fashion. So it was like I have like a bigger chest and so with like

preferring more masculine clothes, like these are my tips and tricks for how to like kind of mask that a little bit. Totally. Or just like gender affirming, you know, clothing tips that I had just from my personal experience. And then through that, my just general interest in fashion became bigger. The more brands I learned about, the more designers that I learned about just by Googling for YouTube videos. Like,

is really what deepened my appreciation for fashion. And then, you know, not being so siloed when it comes to just like the mask fashion side of things or like the androgynous fashion side of things and just looking at fashion broader. And just like taking up space that way.

has been really interesting because it's kind of like opened my mind up to all the ways that we can look and present ourselves. And I don't think that I get dressed in a gender-affirming way anymore. I feel like... I don't want to say like I graduated out of it because that feels like going from here to here and that's not what I mean. It's more so just like...

I now have the knowledge and I know more about what's out there to be able to explore fashion in a way that is not just gender affirming. Totally. And so, yeah, I make content kind of like from that space and perspective. Do you think it helps also that we're kind of like as a society moving to a way more androgynous look? Oh my God, yeah. I think like even just like the Jacob Elordi's like wearing purses and stuff. It's kind of like what is...

gender affirming anymore when so many people are like towing the line of both but i really love the tiktok you made about billy eilish oh they're ripping me to shreds really in those comments really coming for their girl which i wasn't even you i don't feel like it was like aggressive or like at all anti that at all put on that durexis i guess and then in the comments people are like

Let her dress how she wants. It's like, I'm not Billie Eilish's handler. You can't come for like, I mean, you can come for anyone. But when you have like a fan base like that, it is like scary, obviously. But it is like, it is interesting the way that she is dressing. Yeah. Right? It's like, let's, I think, okay, can I say something? Yeah, of course. So coming on this podcast, I was wondering if like,

if that video I made during the pandemic would come up. The one about like talking about, I'm gonna connect this in a second. - No worries. - But like talking about the divide between white lesbians and black ones, specifically creators. And as I was learning, I was kind of like thinking through like, okay, what topics could stem from that video?

And one just very-- Like, one very real truth that, like, Black queer people have is how-- Like, we see the influence of, like, Black queerness within white queer people in spaces, but y'all don't. And so, um, I bring that up to say, like,

She is fully dressing like Offset right now. Like, she is fully in her-- Like, when Miley Cyrus was doing collabs with Wiz Khalifa. Like, she's fully in that-- Aesthetically, anyway. In that moment. And sure.

Sure, we'll take it. But let's not act like we don't see this. That we can't see it. It's very real and we definitely see it. Yeah, like her wearing her bandana underneath her hat with it being sideways. It's like, we've seen this before. What are we doing, Bill? We've seen it before. How can you not call a spade a spade? Yeah, and especially with more masculine men

women, like white women in like the queer space. It's like you can always tell because it'll be like a fitted that doesn't fit and like Tim's with like old navy shorts and it's like

You have the elements, but like, the essence. The essence is not quite there. And that's how I feel about Billie. Like, I feel like she is rich and gay and letting her little freak flag fly. And I love that for her. Totally. I love her and her little, like, I don't know, her little Jodeci outfits. It's cute. But also, yeah, call a spade a spade. It's also crazy when you think about how young she actually is. Because it's easy to forget that I'm like...

damn you are a baby like it'll be I will be so curious to see what she's dressing like five years from now and five years from then like she's it's obviously I don't know I'm curious to see I I want to see her with a bust down what does that mean

I love this so much. I love this so much. It's just like little middle part bust down. It's like a wig. Okay. Bone straight. Got it. And it's like down, like down to her like thong. Got it. That's what I want. I want her to have like a Nicki Minaj like. I can see it. That could happen, right? Yeah. Or it could go so, I'm really curious to see how Jojo Siwa's fashion changes over the next few years. Yeah.

Same. Because I could not call it, I could not predict what it's gonna be. Should we talk about that YouTube video? Do you want to? We can. We don't have to, if you feel like... I mean, I pretty much said everything in that video. I was just like, hey guys, stop lying. It's a great video. Like, that's all, that's literally all it was. It was just like a, because I think I made it like during Black History Month, and

And I was getting like all these mentions from all these like white queer creatives who I've never heard of, who I've never spoken to. And then they're talking to me as if like we're friends. And it's just like, this isn't,

Y'all did a quick Google. This is what happened. Black History Month comes around and y'all want to seem inclusive. And so y'all do a quick Google to see who are the other like black and brown creators out there. And then you mentioned me and then you say all these nice things. And then I don't hear it again from you for another year. And my whole thing was like,

You don't have to do that. That was all I was saying. Like, you don't have to do that because it's more performative for you to do that than to just be real and just be like, I don't know who Jade is or I don't follow Jade or I don't follow many, like, queer creators of color or black creators. So, yeah, I think there's also... I think there was also just, like, an over... Like, an umbrella feeling of, like, that many black queer people tend to feel, which is...

We know that y'all aren't like trying to be inclusive and checking for us. And that's fine. We can sit at the back of the bus. It's fine. But don't like gaslight us. So when we're like, hey, these spaces are not inclusive. So we're going to go have our own and go party over here. Y'all are like, no, no.

stop we we love tiana taylor like what zendaya smash like okay like we're like we'll hire a black dj that's that that and so you know it's just most it's just more like just just like we've accepted it and i feel like y'all have it and i'm saying y'all as in like no it's fair it does feel like there's like a transparency there i do feel like

this younger generation of queer people, it feels way more diverse and like inclusive across the board. Like it doesn't feel... I definitely feel in our generation just outside of the influencer world, like queer spaces feel very segregated. Like there are like definitely parties that feel white, definitely parties that don't feel white. It feels very like...

And it's been like that since I remember when I moved to LA, feeling like, why are they so separate? And it does seem like, like when I go to Brooklyn or like when I'm in New York, especially, it feels much, and with younger people. I love Brooklyn too. I love Brooklyn.

But it does feel like there's like something that is shifting, which is obviously beautiful and ideal, like what I would wish for like, sometimes I like worry for our generation, like are we so ingrained in this separation from each other that like how do we bridge the gap? Like how do we create a space that feels authentically like we're trying to have a party together where both sides are like, this isn't performative. Right. Right.

I don't know what that would look like. Just tea. Like, I don't know what that would look like. And maybe it's not a party setting. Yeah, because I think the reality of party settings is like you want to hang out with people you want to listen to music that you and your friends listen to you want to like meet people who you would actually date and who you're attracted to. And so that may look like more folks from your community. And I think that that's just the truth.

True. So maybe it's not like a party space. Maybe it's something that's like more networky or something that's a bit more like community based. Because I do think that's where you see in those more like community based or even like movement related spaces. Like that is where you see a lot of that, that overlap, especially like even in the pandemic, like just seeing like,

trans women, black women, you know, like really be at the front lines, like for George Floyd and everything else that happened. So it's like you do see, like people will come outside of their, outside of their like respective spaces for like a general cause. And so maybe that's what it would look like. But, or maybe we just get like a panel of biracial people.

totally and they just tell us what to do exactly hey you guys tell us what to do exactly just a panel of like belasians and i feel like like the dyke days and like the park settings even because there's obviously there is like a party element to that but it definitely feels again more include like it's just more blended yeah it definitely the party scenes where it's like

everyone showing up at midnight there's like the music like it is so i feel like i've just walked into spaces where i've just immediately been like oh my god i don't think anyone probably wants me here honestly and i'm sure vice versa like it's like the same but like i don't like i don't i wish it wasn't like that yeah you know what i mean i kind of like the segregation fair like yeah i don't know man keep it separate

I mean, in some spots, like, here we are, right? This is space. This is space. But no, I feel like, yeah. If there...

I was actually talking to my friend the other day about how we have a huge ageism problem. Yeah. I feel like there are so many elder queers who would love nothing more to help out younger queer folks or just be in the room with younger queer folks just to witness what it looks like. What are we up against? Talk to us, whatever.

But those spaces don't exist. No. Like I would say that that's seldom being in those spaces more so than like more like diverse spaces. Oh my god. Yeah. Recently I was talking about I don't know like older lesbians. Like I don't see them. I don't like have that representation. I was on a cruise with my family in like Europe and

I mean, I just didn't even see, like, lesbians, queer people at all. Like, you know what I mean? And, like, especially... And the whole cruise was old. Everyone was old. It was an old crowd. And there was a gay night on the cruise every night at this one bar. Every night? Every night. That's wild. LGBTQIA plus night at the bar. And I went, and there were gay men there, like, older gay men. No older lesbians. Or maybe there was, like, two. But I was just like, I see so little...

of myself older yeah especially and no like shade to any older lesbian but there's just so many of them have been like my volleyball coach you know what i mean screaming literally like that's what i've seen that's what i know and i'm like i don't i don't really know people who like look like me who have families like i don't even care i don't that i don't even really need that it's not like i need to see like two older moms it's just like

Where are we exactly? I do think-- I mean, if-- I mean, I could be reading this wrong, but I do think that in general, we-- Like, the world doesn't treat older folks well. And maybe that deters them from even going outside in the fucking first place. Fair enough. Like, I remember when I was in Hawaii, I saw a couple. It was this, like, white lesbian couple. They looked so cute. Me and the person I was with were like,

coming up with their backstory like as we're like because we're like walking towards each other and I was like I should say something I should say something even if it's just like hey girl thanks for being out or like thanks for you know just like being visibility or I'm glad you're here you know like something like that because you don't know what they've been through totally you know and I didn't

And I like still think about that. That's like over a year ago. But like, I don't know. Did they respond? Did they say anything? You didn't. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. And I wish I did. Yeah. But yeah, I think that there's just like a, I don't know. I don't know. When I see older folks and I see them out living their best life, I'm like, you are in an anomaly. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, agreed. But I also don't live in... I guess we live in LA. There's not that many old people. Yeah, there's not many oldies here. Or young. Like, when I say a baby, I'm like, what the hell are you doing here? Exactly. It's very, like, a group of people. Exactly, exactly. Do you feel like... Because I kind of feel... I kind of feel like in queer spaces in general, we are... Because we're already...

like a minority i think then there is this other level of really trying to find people who you 100% relate to and i feel like it also lends itself to just like more natural segregation of groups of like like i have a lot of i have a lot of lesbian friends who are in sororities that's weird i mean it's not weird obviously no that's weird but

You're like, I don't have any of those. I don't know what that is. But isn't that like, don't you think it like it makes sense? Because we're like, okay, you spend so much of your life feeling very different. Yeah. And then you're finally like out and being yourself. And then the second you find anyone who's like really similar to you, you're like, and you're one of me. Yeah. And I also feel like that probably is why this younger generation of queer people is having less of that because they spend less time feeling so different and

and like alone, like they aren't, they're like, oh, what's your experience? Because their experience is like maybe a little less traumatic. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're like, I don't need you to be exactly like me. Yeah. I almost felt like when I was coming out, like I needed to talk to someone who was like me. Yeah. Like I need me to talk to me so that I don't feel so alone. It's almost like, because I think our thing as creators is,

a few years ago was relatability, like being relatable in that way that you're talking about. Whereas now it's less of that and it's just like, we just need to have the same type of mind. It's like, do you know TikTok references? Okay, that's enough. Or like, do you have the same cocktail of mental illnesses that I do? Work. Let's spiral together. Like it feels like that is more so where they're at. Also, I think that, I mean, maybe...

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I feel like younger folks, like younger than us, they tend to appreciate individuality a little bit more than we did. Or just like, oh, you're nothing like me? Okay, tell me more. Yeah, agreed. As long as you're on the same side of things. Exactly. But it's also maybe because the world shrank so much. Like their world is, you can see everything. Like if you want to, you can see everything.

everything. But then also it makes you... Things that are different don't feel as crazy different because you've grown up seeing it. I had to go looking for lesbians. I had to log on to Tumblr to find them. You had to lock in. I had to look for it. It wasn't just in my face.

or like there or like you didn't have a for you page of TikTok that curated for you accidentally that you didn't even purposely do like everyone during COVID being like, how did I end up on lesbian TikTok? It's like, yeah, because you watched every lesbian video for like a minute and you were swiping on the other ones, even if you didn't like it. The algorithm is so smart that it was like, and this is what you want to see. Yeah. Whereas like we,

I'll speak for myself but I feel like I had to search it out like I had to go find it so yeah I think that the younger generation is also just more queer period yeah I mean I think our generation is the same I think we've always been this queer but they're just finally like I think we like gave we it took us too long to give ourselves permission to be this and once they decided it at like

five yeah then it was just like well yeah get get into it to everyone around them i'm stoked i think it's gonna be so much better like i'm so excited for i'm so excited for this generation of queer people to not feel like they go to a party and it's like the party was not for them like that i feel like the party should be for everyone all of those parties i hope it

I hope as they get older and start throwing the parties and we're all forced to also attend those parties. Although we're going to be going out anymore. We're going to be the elders. Yeah. In the section with, with the sparkly. I'm bound to be there. I'm going to be up in there. Yeah. I have some years left on me still. I do. I asked my friend the other day, I was like, at what point are you going to like stop going out? And my Jamaican friend was like, never. Yeah.

And then everyone else was like, oh, pretty much as soon as I'm like wifed up and like booed up, I'm probably like not going to be out like that. And I feel like, I don't know, I feel like I'm going to be like out for at least another 20 years. I also don't like club. Do you feel like you go to clubs? I do love a club. You love a club? Yeah. I feel like I'm mostly still just like, well, I'm not a big dancer, I have to say. So I'm mostly always just been going to bars. So I feel like I could see myself...

i don't know i mean i'm not going to do this forever yeah but i also feel so young i definitely feel like i have the what do you call it um what do you call it like when you're late in life to being yours yeah but like being yourself like um um delayed adolescence i've never heard of delayed puberty or something it's like the idea that like queer people

most people get to start dating when they're like 13 14 15 and they're like openly dating like i don't feel like i started having those experiences until i was like 21 22 so like i feel like years younger than i am like years in experience yeah i feel that deep in my shondo yeah especially dating now at 32 yeah how is dating at 32 for you

It's kind of fun. Yeah. Like, it's fun because, like, I now... Okay, this is gonna sound weird. But, like, I don't... I have no issue saying no. I have no problem if you don't like me. Yeah. I, however... I got ghosted for the first time. The first and only time. And I almost wish it happened again. Because now it's just the one. Yeah. Now she's in my phone and I'm like...

And I had to go back in that message and see I was left on read. Yeah. When you say ghosted, what do you mean? You went on a date and then, or like how? Okay. No. See, I don't want to talk about it. Cause I'm not, not, I'm not going, you know, I feel like she already has enough power, but just like, I don't,

often express interest and then have that interest not be reciprocated. And so that was the first time and I was like, oh. Yeah. Oh. Don't love that. I don't love that. I don't love that. And I hate that it's just her because I'm like, ugh, now you're like the only one. You're like the one who ghosted me. I don't like that either. And you go down in my history as the one who ghosted me. Do you have a type? Yeah. What is it?

not the shame it's I I do feel shame I do feel shame um you just need like an undeniable face card like just pretty pretty um personality I don't too much care but like don't give me everything I want like be a little little guarded old daddy issue thrown in there got it

Yeah, during the summertime, knotless braids are nice. Tooth gems are cool. A bust down maybe. And now I know what that is. And now you know what that is. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, not a requirement. Just, yeah, pretty girls with a little bit of an issue. Okay. So you'd say like femme, more femme? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you identify? Like, do you pick? On the scale of like femme to masc? Yeah.

I don't think I identify anywhere anymore. No. I think before, if you would've asked me, I would've said mask, but now... I just kinda like fit the need. Like, what is necessary right now in this space? Okay, then I will fill that space. -Yeah. - 'Cause even with my parents, like, the things that they did weren't very gendered. Like, that's why I'm always boasting about my dad and I'm like, "Ugh, not me talking about a man on the internet in positive ways," but...

Um, he was like the most healthy version of masculinity I've ever seen. Like he just, it was very quiet. He wasn't, he's not a loud guy. He, you know, my mom would cook and without any questions, he would just grab a towel and just start doing the dishes. Um, if they were arguing and like, I knew about them arguing, he would never like say or act in a way that like disapproved of her in front of me and like stuff like that.

And just the way that he just like assumed responsibility in a lot of ways I found really inspiring. And so I feel like the way that that looks now in my relationships, especially when we're talking about like the feminine role, the masculine role, like I don't really think about it and I don't think I perform either one. I just kind of fit in where I need to be. Yeah, that makes sense. I feel like not exactly the same, but my dad was kind of more of like the...

Like, I would almost say he's Metro and my mom is like literally like never like she'll leave a hair salon with her hair wet. She doesn't let them like blow dry it out. Like she's just like not she's not never buying new clothes for herself. And my dad had like nice underwear, like literally paid for the stuff like that. So like also I can see I don't see gender. I don't see gender, obviously. Yeah.

But I don't like assign myself to anything too intensely. Yeah. Like also like obviously I'm not super feminine, but I just say I'm a chapsick lesbian. But mostly because I think I literally feel like none of those labels exist.

aside from lesbian are like that important. Like anything under it is like, okay, it's just really a marking tool or like something for whatever. But the reason I've like stuck with the chapstick lesbian thing is because I have seen people like hear it and really like relate to it and be like, oh my God, I never heard anyone say it like that and like feel very like affirmed in themselves because of it. So I still will say it just because I'm like, if this is something that helps you

in your journey to self-discovery. I'm down to say it. But like, I don't care that much. Like it doesn't really, I don't need it anymore. Fair.

I get that like it doesn't do anything really for me anymore other than you're like I'm for the people yeah and I just know that well yeah I'm a community leader exactly that's what you said I'm for everyone no I just want whatever label means that I get to be okay I feel like you can do that that's all that's the one I want and I feel like mask no you don't think I mean maybe you can who's masking Jacob Elordi exactly

Hey. Wow. Coming full circle, folks. He, I like his clothes a lot. He be having Birkins and stuff. Do you think that lesbians dress like men or men dress like lesbians?

I saw a TikTok the other day of this guy saying he got on to like mask lesbian TikTok and like that it changed the way he dressed yeah I was like that is so sick yeah I feel like it's probably going both ways all the time I do think it is going both ways I think that lesbians are inspired by men but not the men of today yeah like James Dean and shit for sure um or just like

guys from guys from back there and then I think that men are inspired by the lesbians of today yeah that's what I think I get that I feel like that do you think if you get married will you wear a suit oh yeah yeah but like a very very sickening cunty suit though yeah do you think you'll get married

Probably. I'm a lover girl. And I love a party. I love a party too. Ah, celebrate what? You want to come and celebrate my love? Literally. Yes. And a Leo nonetheless. What? I want it to be like one of those Indian weddings that like last like two weeks. No, it was totally. Do you know who G Flip is?

Yes. They do a wedding every year with Chrishell. Every year. And they're going to do it for their whole relationship. But the weddings... Wait, a wedding for themselves? Yep. Every year. They're going to do it for, like, forever. That's iconic. But the weddings aren't all, like... They're not necessarily, like...

hundreds of thousands of dollars like they were saying to me they're like if we had one in an olive garden like that would be the wedding and they'll like they're like kind of like very spontaneous so it'll be like a week before or two days before they tell people we're getting married again tomorrow i'm here for in palm springs if you want to come come and they're like

saying like basically it's like a celebration of their love every year and i'm like yeah like we celebrate our birthdays why the hell wouldn't we celebrate that and also relationships are like way harder than staying alive that that then the thing is because they're gay if they break up they're gonna keep doing it they're

They're not gonna stop doing it. They're gonna do like, "Oh, we're broken up, but we still celebrate our past love that we have for each other because we grew so much as people." They're like, "This is our one-year breakup party." -That. -This is our two-year breakup party. -Gay people, man. -Yeah, it's a complicated situation. Okay, I have one more thing I want to talk about. I completely agree with you, and I've talked about it before, about the YouTube of it all.

and how YouTube pushed out content. Yeah. And I always felt like once it got brought to my attention, especially, I was like, oh my God, clearly YouTube loved me and my first girlfriend because we were so girl next door. Camisole. Yeah. And my hair was still long. Like I was even more femme than I am now. And we were just like very girl next door. Very like, very white, very palatable. Yeah.

And I felt like YouTube really pushed our content so much. What do you think about TikTok and the way it pushes content for white versus non-white? I think that... This is what I think. I think that if you're a white gay and TikTok is pushing white gay people to you, that makes sense. I guess...

And I don't expect the platforms to try to remedy the ideology that is baked within this country. You know what I mean? Um...

So I think that what TikTok decides to push is just a reiteration of what you have told it that you want. Yeah. But I do think that if we want to be a queer person who is making an attempt to be more inclusive, is making an attempt to like even be more community focused, then you need to do the work to then educate the platforms, to educate the algorithms on what the information that you actually want to be fed.

Totally. Because even when it comes to like Palestine and everything that's going on, like I had to tell the algorithm like I care about this. Yeah. I want to know about totally like see this like repost. Yeah. Yeah. Posting especially I engage does the most for my like for you page. Yeah.

Even if it's like creators that you're not necessarily interested in. Like if you're not interested in what I make, but like you want to support, you know, black queer creators and engage. Send it to someone that you think will fuck with it. Yeah, totally. I also, I feel like TikTok's, sorry, I feel like TikTok's algorithm feels way more like tech based, like actual, like just tech.

like computer and youtube felt more like there were human love this like but human beings behind what also got pushed yeah and it still feels that way i think on youtube with like what becomes trending on like the trending page there's clearly like a very human element to youtube and youtube's algorithm and tiktok feels way more like it feels very like they created a

hell of a computer and it's like yeah you will get fed what you feed it and it will feed you what you what it thinks you want you know which is in some ways amazing for all content creators on the platform because there's kind of space for everyone but i think you're completely right that if you want to encourage the algorithm to feed you any kind of diversity you have to tell it to yeah

okay well then you gotta accept the limitations because at the end of the day the people making this stuff are racist i mean yeah there's that tick tock is all china right i think so but they're trying to get that girl up on out of here they're trying to get tick tock out here but it's not gonna be too powerful it's not gonna happen yeah

Thank you guys so much for watching this episode of X's and O's. I will have all of Jade's information in the bio below. They have a show themselves. It's amazing. The quality is honestly eight times better than mine. So you should check it out. And you have awesome guests on there. I'm obsessed with Heartbeat and have been forever. She's amazing. Oh, you're going to gag when the next season comes out. Super gaggy. Super, super, super gaggy.

Make sure you guys are following so you see everything that Jade posts. And if you're into fashion, also highly, highly recommend you follow them on everything. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Goodbye.