"The Most Vulnerable I've Ever Been"
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Hello and welcome. I'm Patrick Custer and so excited to be joining with you here live in person with Savannah Chrisley. Thank you. I'm like on the other side of it now. I know. I think that both stories are so powerful and impactful. I cannot wait to hear yours. Thank you. What we're going to talk about today. Thank you. I'm excited. I will say I'm a little nervous though because I'm normally not on this side. I normally get to have a little bit of a wall up. You know, what is that saying? Um,

If it doesn't challenge you, it won't change you. And hopefully, you know, all of our experiences that we're seeking through life are pushing us to grow. 100%. Yeah. So I know I mentioned this to you before, but I just wanted to say that before I interview someone who has any sort of platform and been visible publicly, I either read their book or listen to all their podcast episodes. And I went through yours twice. Wow.

And I don't think I've ever done that with anyone's before, but it was really good and I really enjoyed it. And so, yeah, you are an angel. Well, thank you. It's been an exciting journey because I'm kind of reintroducing myself and I'm able to be more authentic and really show, figure out who I am while allowing other people in on the journey. So it's been, it's been kind of fun. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful process. And one that I want to kind of

unravel as we talk more about your life story. For sure. Yeah. So my first question is, um, about you sharing so much about your, your personal life, um, in the podcast for the first time. Um, it's, it became very apparent to me how you vocalized that, um, the narrative, um,

in your show was, and now as a grownup, I've gone back recently and watched some more. I mean, I watched plenty of episodes, you know, in previous years, but, um, I guess I've been a grownup the whole time your show has been on, but, but now I think you view it from a different lens, right? I feel like I'm 36 and I don't think I really started feeling like a grownup till the past, like four years. Um, Hey, that's fine. So, but, um,

you know, going back now and watching some of the episodes, it's easy for me to watch and say, okay, that's not reality. This is all fun and games. Yeah. It's all positive. It really was. And it got kind of, that was just our role. It really was in a way, an acting gig that like we knew we had to show up. We had to be funny. That's what we did. Did you know from the beginning that that was the, the narrative that, what did you think?

was because when y'all started, reality TV was new. Yes, it was new. I would say, you know, the Kardashians definitely paved the way for all reality shows. But when we started, that's how it was pitched to us was that it would be a reality show. And then it quickly changed. I think people, production companies, networks took advantage of my dad's

His ability to approach a situation with humor, they took advantage of that to the point to where he always had to be funny. Every situation had to be approached with humor. So I know this is about you, but now that you bring that up, this makes me curious and I'm just, I wonder...

Just Todd. Todd, the father. Yes. Was that off camera? Does he go? We all have our things that we go to, you know, like in to deal with discomfort or whatever. But is that something that like he leans into being funny to deal to cope with?

- I would definitely say he's used his humor to cope with a lot of things throughout his life. Even as a kid, I hear stories about him and I know his childhood and the things that he went through and I could see how he would use humor to cope with those things. I would say in the past years,

Was in a lot of therapy. A lot of things happening in our life that caused him a lot of trauma and just dealing with his own mental health. And...

He has started to become use his words a little more instead of his humor. And he's able to discuss things better. He's more patient. He's able to dig deep into it instead of using humor as a reflection. That's got to be meaningful as a child of a parent. Yes. And kind of nurtured your relationship. I think what we all failed to realize is that our parents are human, too.

I really don't think that it was until I hit probably 30. Yeah. The actualization of that reality. I would say it hit me this past year. So 25. Huge life circumstances, I think, tend to push you past a normal...

- Exactly. - And clearly you've been going through a lot. - Yeah, and I think it finally, like it made me realize, okay, my parents aren't super humans. They're not superheroes. Like they're,

human beings. Um, and they go through stuff like the rest of us do. They can't fix everything. They can't. And that, that was a big point for me. And I think it, like, it really broke my heart because I was like, Oh my, like what? They can't fix everything. Um,

But watching my parents evolve and grow into the people they are today, it's been such an honor because I see, especially in my dad, like where he once was and where he is now. And I've never been so proud of.

Of a person as I am of him to see that growth that's happened. So it's, it is really awesome as their daughter to sit back and watch it. That's awesome. Yeah. Beautiful. I, I love stories of growth and all in all realms, um, growth and healing. Uh, you know, as we talk about this, um,

and your reality, reality. Yes. Right. From the show. Um, and then unlocked Savannah and finding and identifying and like kind of reconciling that authentic version of yourself. I'm curious when, when the show, how old were you when you started? Uh, I was almost 16. Okay. So you,

somewhat, I mean, like, you know. - 10 years ago. - Yeah, yeah. - But that was also a very pivotal point, I feel like, in a kid's life, is your teenage years.

and especially kind of growing up the way that I grew up and how everything was this picture perfect image. And I had an older brother who struggled with mental illness, addiction, all of those things. And then I was on TV at 16 and I

I was being told what I needed to look like, what I needed to do. I was given this character in a way of what I needed to be and then I fell into it and then it was like it created, it was like there was two of me. There was someone I wanted to be and then there was someone that I was being forced to be.

That's what I was going to draw a parallel. I always think about how pastors families, because my husband comes from a pastor's family who I love and I have a great relationship with all of them, you know, but I think anybody, pastor's kids, raise your hand. I think everyone that I've ever talked to has said this is a, you know, a really strong relationship.

consistent pattern that, you know, inside the home, everything stays inside the home. It's like Vegas. It's the South. It is. It really is the South. And that's what I was going to ask you is that, do you think your fans can relate to that in a way, not necessarily from the celebrity perspective, but that the layering of which reality are we living in? Yes. Without a doubt, because we all,

- We want people to see what we want them to see. Especially in the South, I feel like it's just a known thing. Like you keep your dirty laundry inside. You don't take it outside the house. No one else is to know about it. No one else is to know about your issues.

And there was always a, there's a saying I love and it's comparison is the thief of all joy. But I also look at it now too, as an adult, I'm like pride is also the thief of all joy. Because having a level of pride of not wanting anyone to think you're anything other than perfect.

creates this standard of you can't screw up. You can't make a mistake. Everything has to be perfect. And especially me as a kid, um,

And just through trauma that I've gone through in my life and people obviously listen and I'm not telling, asking people to feel bad for me, for both my parents being incarcerated. It's not what I'm saying. There's other trauma I've gone through in my life. Just that I have chosen to not vocal, like that I've chosen to not publicly speak on. But because of that trauma, my trauma response was like hyper perfection and performance. I wanted to perform and,

in order to gain attention. And I wanted to be the absolute best when it came to me and my brother. It was always a competition. Like, I want to be better in school. I don't want to get in trouble. I want to have better grades.

first place in all my horse shows. I wanted, and when I would see my parents get excited over those things, I'll be like, all right. It just reinforced that narrative in your head. Exactly. That like, all right, you perform, you perform, you perform. And it was something I brought on myself as an adult. I look at it and I'm like, I really brought that on myself. But I also feel like that was me running from a lot of things because the more I could focus, the less

I had to focus on my own trauma and my own feelings and figuring them out. You know, what I would say to that is I feel like that. Yes, I agree. But also because I hear some I have to take full ownership and it's all my fault in that. And I think the truth is in growing up.

we figure out how to survive. And if survival for you meant doing everything perfectly and getting the reinforcement socially and from your family, then why wouldn't you do things that way? - Yeah. And I think too, part of having a sibling that struggles with mental illness and addiction

A lot of you saw, okay, so all of these negative behaviors are garnering so much attention. And I saw so much time being stolen from me and my other siblings because it was all focused on this one person. And it was like, hey, I'm over here. I'm doing everything possible.

you know, as a child, my mindset was I'm doing everything perfect. Look at me over here. But instead it was, it was kind of a double edged sword because you would get attention when you did really well, but then it got to a point to where, okay, well that's just expected of you because that I know you're capable of that. And then you saw the person that was doing all these negative things, getting all this attention. And you're like, what?

But what about me? - It's a contradiction. - Yes, very much so. - So it throws you a curve ball for sure as a youngster. - It does and I think,

I also, my dad and I are very codependent. It's just what it is. I've, we've both done tons of therapy in it. Has it been, cause I mean, like, I know you've talked about that, like, um, through the show and things like that, but has it been that way for you? You're pretty much your whole life. It has. Um, and you've asked my siblings that my mom, everyone will say it.

I think my dad understood parts of me that no one else had the capabilities of understanding. And it's not to say, oh, I love my dad more than my mom. I love everyone just has different relationships. And my dad was able to, in a way, like figure out how I felt before I could.

And we say it's kind of like even now it's like, all right, I can feel when you're sad. I can feel when something's not right with you. I can feel when you're having a bad day. Like it's just the relationship that he and I have. So he was able to just understand me when no one else could. So he helped me work through a lot of the issues that I was having. And I mean,

I'd say it to everyone. I'm like, I don't know if I would be here today if it wasn't for him because he literally saved me in every single aspect. That's so beautiful. Cause I feel like even though a lot of females talk about how, you know, I'm daddy's girl and what have you, um, whether you're a son or a daughter or you name it, um,

Not everybody is fortunate enough to say that one of my primary caregivers was able to connect with me on a level that you just described in my darkest times, in my most fearful times. And I think that's really beautiful. It really, I mean, it gives me chills when I think about it, just because I know people that have not been blessed with those relationships. So I do not take it lightly at all. Yeah. So,

Skipping back just a second to talking about the, you know, a theme of perfectionism in your life. I feel like getting to know you from afar, as I have recently, and understanding more about you that you've probably reached this milestone of, and correct me if I'm wrong, but just learning that

mistakes can be one of the best teachers without a doubt i that that's exactly where i'm at right now and i can feel that through your energy and how you talk that's why i just went ahead and assumed that that was the case um and didn't ask really ask the question so can you can you think back and describe what point in life was there a specific point where you

You made a mistake or a series of mistakes that changed this for you to where you didn't. You were like, I've been doing it. I can do things differently. This isn't this narrative doesn't have to be the one that's rewritten for me over and over and over. That was when my ex-fiance and I called off the engagement. And it was a very like everything in my life. I feel like it's very hard.

like non-traditional in certain aspects because we called off the engagement and then we continued dating for three years after. Oh, wow. Yeah. So like that normally you're like, how did that work? Uh, but we called off the engagement and I just knew that something wasn't right within me. We had our issues and it was like two broken people trying to create something

trying to create one person that's not broken. So bring in like all the broken pieces together and like, all right, maybe since we're both broken, we can make this work. And I just remember being at a point in my life where I was like, I cannot hold the level of shame that I hold anymore. I have to forgive myself for things that never really were mine to take on to begin with. Um,

And I was like, I just have to, I've got to talk to someone. I have to. And I grew up just therapy. Wasn't something you did. You know, you talk to the people that love you because they know you best and they can help you more than anyone else can. Even my grandmother. Now she's 78 years old, love her to death, but she's still, she's from that era to where you don't believe in therapist. You don't believe in medication. You don't believe it's where she is. And I have to try to tell her, Hey,

I love you, but that viewpoint is ignorant. And that viewpoint is telling me or telling other people that something is wrong with them because they may need additional help. Oh, right. And so I got to a point where I was just like, you know what? I've got to cut loose from everyone. I also realized the codependency that my dad and I had. And I lived a life of such perfection of not wanting to disappoint.

And I had to cut loose of that in order to figure out who I was and what I had to offer. Because I didn't know who I was without an extension of him. Yeah. So when was that? What did that? I think it was like 2019. 2019.

So was that is that the time when you and your brother broke off and moved to LA or that was also a whole other like I said It was like a very somewhat scripted, you know, you know change of things but during that time I mean when he and I went to LA we filmed growing up Chris Lee I was in a whole other struggle because I was You know at that time I was still engaged and

I was also diagnosed with endometriosis and it's...

an awful, awful thing to deal with that goes misdiagnosed for so long. And it's this, that, whatever. And then it ends up, I have surgery and they end up diagnosing exactly what it was. And I remember being like, I feel like I'm going crazy. Like I had gained 40 pounds. I was like as heavy as I've ever been. And to me, it's all relative, you know, it's all relative to how you feel. And I was getting up at 4 a.m. I was working out.

like hardcore. I went where all the professional athletes go and I would eat as clean as I've ever eaten and still nothing would happen. And I was like, what the hell is wrong? And then I had the public saying, Oh, it looks like you ate yourself. Look, it looks like you ate one too many cheeseburgers. It looks like you got a little too happy. I have all that being thrown at me.

And I reached a point where I was like, I can't do this anymore. You know, I turned to plastic surgery. I turned to all these different things. I was like, okay, I'm not perfect right now. Like I have to fix it because you, you have to be perfect in order to succeed. Yeah. And so that was before I ever got the help that I so desperately needed for myself.

And so I dealt with body image issues. I dealt and then my fiance. Yeah. And then, you know, I finally went to an intensive therapy program and threw it all up in the air and was like, I can't do this anymore. And I left there feeling it's so crazy. Like you think you're going to go and like you come home and

Oh, everything's going to be fixed. Everything's going to be easy. But you also have to realize that you just left an intensive therapy program. Not everyone in your life just left. That's right. So you can't expect change out of them like you're feeling within yourself. And a lot of times you leave angrier than when you came because you realize all these different emotions that maybe you've been hiding for so long. And

I had to work through those things. So I had to go to people in my life and be like, hey, these are issues that I have with you that I didn't even realize that I have. And this is why I feel this way. Yeah. And it was hard because to people that I love the most and I respect the most and I but there were moments where it was like, hey, I really needed you during this time.

I don't know how you didn't see it or I don't know why you didn't show up or I don't know. And I had to have those tough conversations, but ultimately it led to much stronger relationships. Yeah. Vulnerability always. I mean, yeah. Vulnerability has. It's the truth teller because I think that it never fails to either say this person's

Okay and safe to be in your life. Yeah, or they're not exactly and whatever the truth is will rise to the surface very fast It only takes one person being vulnerable for that to for that to happen. Yeah, that is so people don't know that but it does because Your level of vulnerability could impact theirs exactly and if they're not willing to rise then that's That's your sign. Yeah

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How was it received when you went to the different people and talked to them and brought up, you know what I mean? And navigated those questions with them? That's the thing. Or those state conversations. I think, you know, my dad and I, that was what helped though with my dad and I is we were both.

He had been in therapy. So he was working on himself. Was he the first in your family to go in your immediate family unit? No, I would say I was. I think I was the first, but we kind of were on that same, within the same timeframe, we had started going to therapy and I came back about,

I felt in the codependency and things just even emotions I've placed on myself or expectations I've placed on myself that he never really placed on me. Yeah. I did it myself for various reasons. And then there were expectations that were placed on us that maybe weren't placed on the boys or weren't. It's just how it goes. Like I said, our parents aren't superhuman. They do the best they know how to do at that time. And

I came to my dad about, I remember getting these, like the sheet about codependency and it was like, oh, check, check, check, check. Like, you know, going down this checklist and there is, I want to say there's like a 12 steps to codependency that I do. I've thought about doing.

just because there's still so much that I still need to work through when it comes to that. But I remember going to him about it and he went to his therapist about it and they started discussing it. And we both realized that like, yeah, as healthy as this is, it's also really unhealthy because something can, you can be so close to someone that it becomes unhealthy.

And that's what we had to realize. And it was just, like I said, there was a level of trauma bonding, I think, that happened between he and I. There was a multitude of things that had happened. And he accepted it very, very well. I think there was a few words to be had because...

It's so hard for someone to not take it personal. Sure. Well, because it is personal. Yeah. It's so hard for them to not be hurt by it whenever you love someone so much. And to as a parent, I couldn't imagine feeling like, okay, did I bring the sadness about my child? Did I, you know, did I cause them this, that, the other? And then my mom, I had to go to her and be like, hey, your lack of communication is

Really had an impact. Dad was an over communicator. She was not much of a communicator. And that was because she had not worked through. Yeah. Some stuff on her end. And. Yeah.

you, in order to work through something, you have to confront it. Absolutely. You know, they say generational curses, generational trauma. Um, it's not our fault what happens to us. And the only way to stop generational, I heard this at a conference, the only way to stop the generational curse and the generational trauma is to confront it, to hit it head on. Um, and so I remember I had to go to her about that and I just remember, um,

It was so accepted and it was so understood. And for that, I'm grateful because a lot of people don't have those experiences. A lot of people have the fight. A lot of people are told that they're wrong for feeling the way that they feel. And we're all entitled to our own feelings. It doesn't necessarily make them the truth, I would like to say, because we all interpret things differently. Right.

And so maybe because we interpret something a certain way doesn't mean that that's how the person meant it. Yeah. So I found myself holding people to things. And then once I confronted him, they were like, that is not how I ever meant it. I'm so sorry that you took it that way.

And for that, I was grateful for it. But it took that nudge of therapy and intensive therapy. It was like six, seven days of every single day, all day of just intensive therapy and breaking it down and figuring out what the root of it was.

That's so, it takes so much courage to get to a point where you're willing to go do what you did. You know, people like myself that have much, oh, I hate to compare it and say much louder, but like, you know, I went to treatment because my life was on the line. You know what I mean? Like, clearly, I couldn't function at all in my life. You know, I was drinking myself to death. You...

You had that one pivotal life or death experience basically to say like you're getting help or you're dead. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's harder when you're a high functioning person, especially a perfectionist. I definitely suffer from high functioning depression. Oh, gosh. That's the number one way to describe it. To admit it.

that you might need help. - Yeah. - Has to feel like admitting defeat. - Yes, it does. It feels like failure because you're like, okay,

I pride myself on being able to do it. Like I can do it. I can, you know, I don't need help. I just super, super independent. And I feel like a lot of that, that's also a trauma response. Hyper independence maybe comes from being let down, someone betraying you. It's everything has a deeper meaning to it. And unfortunately, and I guess I would,

I say I didn't really have a life or death experience, but I did try committing suicide. So that potentially was maybe my life or death experience. But for me, it was more a cry for help. So if you don't mind me asking, when was that? 15. 15 years old? Yeah.

- Or I would say, yeah, 15, 16. - So had you already, were you about to start filming or had you just started? - About to. Yeah, I wanna say I was about to start. Or I would have to align the dates. And it's so crazy because when you go through so much trauma, I feel like your mind just blocks it out. I also feel like too, there were some maybe some side effects to what I had done to where it affected my memory.

But I just, it all really was a blur. I do remember waking up in the hospital and, you know, my parents being there and discussions being had. And even at that time, I remember lying to the doctors. Of course. And because I didn't want to be held at the hospital. Well, you didn't want to be held at the hospital. You didn't want to be, again, admit defeat. Yeah. Or there was something wrong with you or whatever. Nothing's wrong with me. It was just a bad moment. Yeah. Yeah.

So you say looking back that you feel like it wasn't fully an attempt to end it necessarily as much as it was a cry for help. Yeah. I want to reference something that I think was so pivotal for those who were paying attention when this happened last year with Naomi Judd, when the, you know, the unfortunate incident happened, um,

Winona and Ashley knew that they had an opportunity to make some change in the mental health world because stigma. Oh, my gosh. You the way we talk. And it's so crazy, too, that you talk about Winona. I remember her being at my childhood home was maybe eight, nine years old. And she performed at our house.

And so it's funny you bring her up because I just kind of know the background of the story. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Full circle. Yeah. So something that touched me and I think many people that that were exposed, I mean, we were all exposed to the story, but but understanding that work in the line of mental health and what have you, the narrative and how we talk about it.

What is the appropriate way to refer to suicide has been a hot topic for clinicians the behavioral health field for a minute now and when they announced what happened with Naomi the term that they used was that she died from mental health and I remember reading it and going but I got it immediately. Yeah, I

because when I think about it, the easiest way for me to compare this is, um, to my addiction. Right. So I got sober at 24. I, I wouldn't say that I had gone down the path that many people we treat. I was in a bad place, but right. Like I wasn't, um, looking at prison, um, living under a bridge with a paperback. I mean, it could have gotten much worse for me. Um,

Addiction's a spectrum. I think that any mental health disorder is a spectrum and it's how far you go with it. Yeah. And the end result is death. The end result of not being able to resolve what's going on and tormenting your brain, whether it's trauma or a chemical imbalance. Yeah.

inevitably lead you to a place. Right. And that, that kind of was me of not feeling like I, I felt like kind of like I was damned if I do damned if I don't really in this situation I was in. And I just got to a point that I was like, I, it's just easier to stay quiet, you know, then to start vocalizing what's going on. And I,

just within my own head, just how I was internalizing things. And that, and from that point forward, you know, I've, my parents, I mean, when I tell you stepped up, like my dad spent countless hours with me every day, just trying to get me to talk, trying to get me, telling me his life stories, his trauma, his

Trying to let me know like, hey, I'm not this perfect person you've always thought I am. I'm not, you know, I've gone through stuff in my life too. I've had trauma. Like it's...

Let's I want you to feel comfortable and talking to me about it and it took me a while well And what I hear you saying is that he was fine desperately trying to find any way shape or form to make you feel less alone and If there's anything that we've learned over the recent decades is that the antidote to addiction and mental health struggles is

is at the end of the day, yes, there may be either a chemical imbalance or trauma or whatever, but the end-all be-all antidote is connection and togetherness. Yes. If I'm suffering, but you're here with me and saying, I see you and I, in your pain and your suffering, I'm suffering 50% less. Yeah. Yeah.

- That is so true. - And so, just the way that you described that, it's beautiful that your dad, you know, that they stepped in the way that they did during that time.

But then it was also hard coming off of that straight into reality television in front of the world and having even more thrown at you. And I just kind of remember masking over. Like, I was fine. You know, that was just like a hiccup. I'm fine. I'm not crazy. I'm not. That's like how I talk to myself. And then, you know, I went in to move down on my own at 17 and

got into my like hyper, again, I started competing in pageants, you gotta be perfect. I didn't win the first one, I didn't place, I was like, all right, I'm too fat, I'm too this, I'm too that. And just started

Working out insanely too much twice a day, then walking six miles on a treadmill before I go to bed, like eating once a day, very, very unhealthy. And when you start doing that to your body, it affects your mental state as well. Oh, absolutely. 100%. And so there were so many different things that I was running from. And then I get engaged, call off my engagement. I was like, okay, whatever.

I've got a good 10 years worth of trauma built up that I've continued to mask over mask over look I'm fine like it's kind of like you had said in my podcast about you know a family member of yours with drinking it stopped for six months and then it just all comes back because you proved like hey I'm fine for this six months yep and that's kind of how I did it was like I would

I worked so hard so I didn't have to focus on anything. And then finally it would hit and it was like, okay, enough is enough. And I had to get to the point where I was like, okay, it's okay to ask for help. It's okay to say I'm not okay. And even with all my parents' legal issues, you know, when the conviction came down or the sentencing, when the sentencing happened, I mean, I had been very depressed. And I remember going to my doctor and he prescribed me depression medicine.

And I went to the pharmacy. I handed it to the pharmacist and, you know, dropped it off. Then when I went and picked it up, it was a different person. And I told them my name, date of birth. And she looked down at the medication. And then she just looked up at me like it gave me the shocked look on her face. And I will never forget the feeling because I was already so shocked.

in such a dark place about having to turn to medication. Uh, because in my mind and person, I can fix it all. That's weakness. Yeah. That's weakness. And, and it's not by any means, but that's just how my mind interpreted it. And, um,

Seeing that reaction, I was like, wow, there's so much further for us to get to as a society. Again, like you said, if I feel like there's situational depression, I feel like there's depression as a whole. There's different kinds of ways that depression maybe comes across. And I just remember sitting there like looking at this medication. I was like, okay, am I suicidal? No. Am I really struggling? Yes.

Do I want to take this medicine? No. Do I want to be dependent on something? No. But I also had to take a look at myself in the mirror and say, am I doing everything I can possibly do to live a healthier life? And the answer was no. I was drinking. I was eating poorly. I was no longer working out. Was not motivated. Wasn't doing anything wrong.

to live a healthier life. So I said to myself, you know what, I'm going to keep this medication. I'm going to put it in my medicine cabinet and it's there. If I need it, it's there. I got to make a change in my life and I have to get back to working out because working out when I do, when I can do it in a healthy manner is so, I see such a big difference within myself. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to start working out with my personal trainer again. I have to do it.

And luckily a trainer I used from California had just moved to town and such an awesome human being. His name's Gunnar Peterson. He's just phenomenal.

And I started back working out with him and I slowly felt myself having more motivation and feeling a little brighter. And I started going on walks and I truly started taking time for myself. And I was like, okay, maybe I don't need this. And again, it's not to say that some people don't need it because they do, but I also could look at my life and say,

I'm not doing anything to better it. So I think that you hit the nail on the head and every physician I've talked to a lot. I talked to a lot of doctors, a lot of clinicians and most doctors,

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all of these things that are scientifically proven to mitigate, uh,

anxiety and depression. And some people aren't able, like physically able to exercise or whatever, you know, that might be their, their, um, story. But if you are right, all the things that you are able, what you asked yourself, I think is one of the most valuable questions an individual can ask themselves when faced with that pivotal moment of things aren't good. And I mean,

You've got to make a change. Yeah, you have to. The fact that you were able to have the insight, the clarity to be truthful and honest with yourself. Mm hmm.

Is something not everyone can get to. Yeah. You know. For sure. And as I was hearing you say that. I'm thinking. Oh gosh. What a gift. That she was able to. To do that. I never want to say. That everybody should do one thing. Versus the other. But. It's all personalized. It is. It's all what works for you. And you don't.

to you don't have to follow the crowd. You don't have to. You have to do what works best for you. Right. And again, putting a drug in your body is something that shouldn't be shameful when it's when the doctor prescribes it. Exactly. Being able to ask yourself if I'm doing either in addition to

or even before I try a medication, is there something that's been proven, known to help alleviate this malady that I've been avoiding? - Yeah. - And yeah, I mean, that's huge. - Yeah. - Absolutely huge. So what would you say to somebody, and it's hard, I know with your life has been so atypical. - Yeah, yeah, very non-traditional. - Yeah.

There are parts to every story that I think that we can all identify with. 100%. And so to that individual who might identify with any single part of your story today who's struggling, what encouragement would you like to leave with them? Yeah. I think first and foremost, it's okay to not be okay. That was the one thing I had to realize was,

It's okay. Something's not wrong with you because you're having a bad day or because you're feeling down or because you're struggling with your own trauma. Like it's okay to not be okay. And you know, when it comes to my body image issues, I had a therapist once told me, Hey, pick out your favorite picture of you as a kid. And I picked it out.

And I was like the most joyful, like hair all over my head, biggest tomboy in the world. And it made me so happy to see myself that way. And they were like, all right, put it on your mirror. Now go to say, look at that little girl and say the most hurtful things that you say to yourself on a day to day basis. And it literally like made me want to cry because I was like, I can't do that. And they were like, exactly. Exactly.

Cause you're saying that you're saying that to you now, but what about that little girl? Like that's, you're still that little girl. And I had to realize that like, wow, that why would I have more grace for her than I do myself now? Yeah. Um, and I had to do that. And I think for me, self-awareness has become a really big thing and being able to look at myself in a mirror and

and ask myself the tough questions and allow other people to challenge me and not get defensive when they do. That I would say is the biggest thing, especially with my dad and our relationship. I've had to allow him to challenge me. And that's where a lot of my growth has come from. That's awesome. Yeah. So I think at the end of the day, it's okay to not be okay. It's okay to ask for help. It's okay to ask the tough questions and

it's okay to take medication and it's okay to not take it. It's whatever works best for you. I would just say, ask yourself, am I doing everything in my power to live the healthiest life I can possibly live? Amen. Okay. I have two questions. Hopefully you can get through them pretty quick. Um, three of your happiest memories from your life that you can think of. Oh my gosh. Three of my happiest memories from my life. Um,

Definitely as a kid, riding horses, horse shows. Horses were my therapy. It was...

You know, I say we didn't believe in therapy in the South, like back when I was growing up. And so horses were my therapy. It's where I kind of got it all out and I felt like I could breathe. Well, now it's a thing. Equine therapy is totally. But I felt like I could for the first time, like actually breathe fully when I was doing it. It's going to sound crazy. When my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer.

Because in that moment, I was able to see the depth of the love that my dad had for my mom. Like, I feel like you grow up always knowing, oh, mom and dad love each other. They're married. They had kids. But I never knew how deep it was until that moment. So as sad as the moment was when she was diagnosed with cancer, it was also the most beautiful moment. Beauty from ashes. Yeah. And then just I look now.

It's the little things. And I took my dad on a trip for his birthday a few years back. And we went out to California to the beach. It was just he and I. And I've got videos on my phone of like just the most funny moments of us like throwing stuff at each other in the hotel room and just spending intentional one-on-one time together. I'm like that, that was the last time I felt that level of happiness. Yeah.

Well, I'm believing and hoping for many more of those times for you. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Last question. What's on the horizon that you're willing to share with us that you have cooking? So my life never in a million years did I think I would be here at 25. That would be educating myself on our justice system, our prison system, our

I just, I was tone deaf to it. It didn't affect me. So I didn't care about it. Um, as selfish as that sounds, if we're all honest, we really don't care about things that don't affect us personally. Um, and there's a lot of noise going on in the world and it's a hard, we can only deal with so much. Yeah. There's a lot. Um, and right now I'm truly working on an initiative for reentry when it comes to our prison system. And there is a prison, um, that's

no longer operating. It was a women's facility and it was shut down due to sexual abuse within the prison. And I'm actually partnering with a few people and purchasing that facility in order to go in and turn it into a reentry program because that's what we lack. And

the world like in our country today is re-entry and to help people navigate how to be thrown back into society after maybe being in prison for five ten years um we don't educate them we don't give them the tools to be better right and the saying is when you know better you do better but

They don't know better. Right. And that's what I hope that, you know, Beauty From Ashes, I can take our experience that we've had and I can invest in people.

I can be a voice for maybe people that don't feel like they have one and especially women. It's a big, big thing for me. And I wanna be able to create an environment to where people can come and feel safe and get potential therapy that they may need and teach them a trade, whether it's culinary, farming,

camera, audio work, whatever it may be. Um, so that they feel like, all right, I can be better. I am not what I did. I'm who I'm becoming. And that's, that really is my number one focus right now. I just got chills because you're talking about giving people dreams that have been living in shame and the identity that's been told to them their whole lives and living in a system that's just cyclical. Yeah. We have to break the chain of shame because all it does, it,

it will kill you. So that's my goal. Well, best of luck. I will be praying and hoping the best for that endeavor. It sounds amazing. And watching, um, as, uh,

hoping to hear about how that unfolds and prospers. We need more of those across the country in our country. I don't know about other countries, but I know here we need a lot of help with what you just talked about. We do. Again, it's mental health awareness month and anything and everything is

we wanna do this month and really every day of life, but especially taking this month to talk about the importance of how we talk, who's really, so many of us have actually experienced mental health problems in our family members.

And what is the importance around language? And so many of those things you hit on today so beautifully. And I just want to thank you again for your vulnerability. Thank you. Absolutely. The power of podcasting is and telling stories is I say this all the time because I mean it from the bottom of my heart and I believe it. We will never know how many lives we touch. 100%. Thank you.

You don't have to know, but just know I'm telling you that it's a gift that keeps on giving. So I'm grateful. And I know everybody listening and watching is as well. So thank you so much. Absolutely. And with that, I'll close how we always do and remind each of you that it's never too late to start loving yourself. And you are only one decision away from a completely different life.

If you need any help or want to just seek out what might be right for you, there's a list of resources in the show notes. Please check them out. I encourage you to take one step at a time. Thanks.

See?

See you next Tuesday.

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