Reality TV and Romance (feat. Jason Tartick)
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I've got prostate cancer, but I really wanted to make it to the big game with my grandson. And here we are.

Go, go, go! With Erleada, Apalutamide, being there is possible. Erleada is a prescription medicine used to treat prostate cancer that has spread to other parts of the body and still responds to a medical or surgical treatment that lowers testosterone. Erleada may cause serious side effects including heart disease, stroke, or severe skin reactions which can lead to death, falls, fractures,

Ask your doctor if Erleada is right for you. Or tap this ad to visit Erleada.com. CP43-9267-V1.

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Happy Monday. And when you listen to this, it's going to be Tuesday. But today I have Jason Tardik on. Welcome. Savannah, thank you for having me. Okay, y'all. First off, I do want to mention, I'm really excited to read your book, Talk Money To Me. Why don't you tell the audience? Okay.

kind of what inspired it, what it's about. Sure. So there are so many books out there about love and there are so many personal finance books about that money. And with my world, my whole background is finance and banking, got an MBA in accounting and finance. But then I went on this love show. There aren't many books out there talking about the synergy of love and money. And love and money is a huge topic right now. And it's the number two reason why people have marital issues or they lead into divorce. So the whole book is...

eight chapters about eight numbers you have to know about yourself, your significant other, how to have the conversation and how to improve those. And then the first two chapters are about mistakes I made through my journey. That's awesome, because that is one topic that I don't feel like anyone really discusses, especially in dating. Yeah, totally. Like if you don't get the awkward, hard conversations out of the way, you are doomed. Right. And we hear so many things now about like,

you know, gaslighting and things like that. But people gaslight through their finances, right? They have all this show, this extravagant things or they maybe don't have much and then people judge each other and then they won't date each other. And it's just like, there's nothing wrong with having everything or nothing. It's just, why don't we just have the conversation about what it means, where you're at, why you're there. And then you could grow as a unit together as opposed to like working against one another.

- Without a doubt, I've always said like, and there was, I think there was a quote I came across not long ago and it talks about dating, how everyone thinks when you start dating or during the dating process, it's like all sunshine and rainbows. Like it should be great 24/7.

But in reality, I think dating should be the hardest, most complicated time so that you can get to know each other and figure out kind of who someone is. And then marriage is a lot easier because I feel like a lot of times people wait to have the hard conversations.

after marriage yeah well it's so easy to avoid them right to like live in the bliss of it but inevitably it's gonna come to a point where you have to have those conversations and I think when you think about like money no I'm not saying on your first date go ask someone's credit score right but like the idea of like understanding what are their financial habits what's just their relationship with money what do they expect out of their partner these are things we constantly just kicked

down the road. And then when you look at all the numbers, it's crazy. It's like 70% of couples have some type of financial infidelity. So like cheating through finances, over 40% of couples have arguments about what they're spending on wants versus needs. I mean, there are so many issues and it's wild how money decisions actually impact intimacy. And there's a ton of statistics around that. Sure. Because you think when someone does something with money and

you start to question other things like whether it's their integrity or their decision making skills or what they care about, what they don't care about. It's a lot more than just spending money. 100%. People ask me a lot like, how do I bring in more money or spend less? What I say is if you want a free therapy appointment, go look at your last three credit card statements, look at where you spent the most, but then like break it down, like take a minute, take a breath and be like, why? What was the reason behind that purchase?

So like one thing I did in my 20s, 21, 22, I'm looking at all the money I'm spending. It's every bar tab. It's ridiculous. So I'm like, but I'm like, Savannah, I'm like, I can't drink that much. There's no way. So I start analyzing it. Okay. What am I doing? I finally got a job, getting paid well, Friday night, I'm putting the card down. Everything's on me. You're paying for everyone. Right. There's a lot of like insecurities with that. It's like, what am I trying to compensate for? Why am I

acting like that, you know, and once you could like do a deep dive on the psychology of why you spend, you actually understand yourself better and it allows you to be like self-aware and accountable. So there's a lot of factors here that come into money, you know?

That's amazing. It really is. There's not a lot of talk about that. Right. Exactly. So we step into it. So where can people find your book? You can get it on Amazon right now. Pre-order called Talk Money to Me. And that's the place to go right now. Okay. That's awesome. It comes out in April. Okay. So for people that don't know you or some people recognize you, but it's been a while because you were on The Bachelorette season 14. Yeah.

Back a season. Back a season. The same season that Colton was on, which I didn't realize. So Colton's been on. Yes, I know. I saw that. And that was hilarious because like he and I like went on a date and it was so funny because now we laugh about it. Yeah. And during, when he came on my podcast, I was like, Colton, I...

I knew you were gay. Wait, did you go on a date with him after the show? Right before the show. Oh, before the show. Right before the show. So you had a little inside scoop before everything. Literally, I told all my friends, I was like, he is gay. And they all got on to me because they were like, why are you just assuming that? Like, you can't assume that about someone's sexuality. And I was like, I'm telling you, he is gay. And I told him that on the show when he came on and he was dying laughing. He was like, yeah, yeah.

I probably, because what happened was we went on a date and then he went with me to the ACM Awards and I ditched him. And I just said, I was like, oh, I don't feel good. He was your date and you ditched him? Yes. Yeah. Wow. I was like, I really don't feel good. Before he was on the show? Yes. Before he was on the show. And so...

He comes with me and it was miserable. Like he was the nicest, sweetest person in the world. But like there was just, you know when there's like zero connection with someone and you're like, oh my God, this is not gonna be over fast enough. And so I was like, hey, I'm really not feeling good. Like I'm gonna go back to my room, I'm so sorry. And I went to a different hotel, hung out with all my friends till like six o'clock the next morning.

And I told him that and he was like, "I would have definitely ditched me too, Savannah." - That is so funny. - Yeah, I know. So it's wild that you guys were on the same season. - It's funny, so I have a gay brother who's married. - Okay. - And Colton and I, especially on the season, we're like super tight. So after we went to New York for an event,

I think Becca Tilly was doing the event. And I was like, why don't we just stay with my brother? You know, like it's free. Like we could just stay there. So we stay there. It's fine. We had a great time. My brother's husband, they all loved him. And then when he, when he came out, my brother was like, oh yeah, we knew right away.

I was like, you did? And they're like, yeah, I didn't say anything. They're like, yeah, I mean, come on. My brother's like, I got gaydar. I saw it. I was like, I don't know. But yeah, so we were super tight on Becca's season. And it was, I can't believe it was that long ago. It was like 2018. That's crazy. So that process, what was it like?

Yeah. I mean, it's the whole thing is it's pretty wild, right? Especially when I was just a guy getting my MBA, working in the banking world, grinding away. And then ABC called me. Now, how they found me was there is this bachelor charity auction for Gilda's Club. Gilda Radner was a famous comedian. So they got 30 guys to come on stage. It was a black tie event. And the guys would try and get people to bid on them for a date. Well, I was like, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it.

So I came out, I had the whole tuxedo, but I started stripping. I started throwing my stuff everywhere. I jump in the crowd, I'm working everybody. I was also like pretty buzzed up. So I was like, we need another bidder. And I just went nuts. - That's amazing. - I got bid on for the most that night. And then it was, I lived in New York then.

Bank brought me to Seattle. I get a call eight months later like, "Hey, we got this video. Are you still single? Do you live in New York?" And I was like, "I'm still single, but I live in Seattle." But in my career, it was always like go, go, go, 100 miles an hour. And I kind of lost my identity through the banking world.

I wrote about in my first book, but I got so caught up in trying to be what like the bank wanted me to be at an age that my entire identity was being lived through my title.

And so like when I was at a table, I felt like I had to sit a certain way, I had to wear the certain tie, I had to speak in a certain tone, I had to shake hands a certain way, and I just totally lost myself. And there was a point I talked about in my book where I'm in this meeting and I have a full panic. Like a meeting, you can't do it. Like CFO, CEOs, everyone's there in the middle of it, fully have a panic attack and hit the ground.

So when the show called me, I was like, honestly, anything. I'm burnt out. And the process was absolutely mayhem. I mean, even the process before when they bring you on the show. You know, you do like all these psychology tests and you have to meet with a psychologist. Which is crazy. I had to do that when I went on Special Forces. Oh, okay. Did you? How many questions was your psychology test? Oh, like hundreds. That's what ours was. Did you have to meet with a psychologist too? Yes. Yeah, it's kind of wild. And like before the show,

right before you went on the show, during the show, after the show.

a month after the show, two months after the show, like it was wild. - Do you have a theory on why they do that? - Oh, it's just to protect themselves. - Okay. - Like legally, it's just to say like, all right, we went through this process, they're okay. - Okay. - In case you ever try to sue them. - So I, yeah, I have the same theory, liability. I also have another theory and it's just in my head that no one's told me this. - Okay. - But I have a theory that if they can bang down your personality type pretty well,

it allows them to structure the show of what they can expect from each person. Oh, oh. Right? Like almost like a chess game. Like, okay, Savannah, we know she's this type of person. I've got prostate cancer, but I really wanted to make it to the big game with my grandson. And here we are.

Go, go, go! With Erleada, Apalutamide, being there is possible. Erleada is a prescription medicine used to treat prostate cancer that has spread to other parts of the body and still responds to a medical or surgical treatment that lowers testosterone. Erleada may cause serious side effects including heart disease, stroke, or severe skin reactions which can lead to death, falls, fractures,

Ask your doctor if Erleada is right for you. Or tap this ad to visit Erleada.com. CP43-9267-V1.

So true. Because when I went on the show, they thought I was going to be like this super strong, like not break, not crack. So they would keep trying to get me to crack. So I do.

- So I've actually never thought of it that way, but I think you're right. - Interesting, yeah, it's wild how that works. - Okay, so when you, the whole process was crazy. From start to finish, like from day one of filming to the end, how long is it? - So it was about three months. Three months, no phone, no TV, no internet, no really outside world impacting you. - No phone? - Yeah, no phone. So there's almost no distraction. So even like when we did the hometown date,

you know, I was so excited to see mom, dad, brothers, like this is amazing, but you're still pretty limited with the time because if outside influence impacts this little bubble you're in, it can have a huge disruption to the show. But that's not reality. Yeah, but nor is reality TV, as you know. Fair point, fair point.

Yeah, that's what's wild because you're going to have, I think part of our relationship is how you would stay on that outside distraction. Totally, yeah. Well, I think, you know, that could be a reason why the show hasn't had

The most success with relationships, right? Like that could be part of it. But also like look at the business side of it. You have three months to make a really good show. The show's been on for 20 plus years. It's clearly doing something right. It's just not the same. I feel like when Chris Harrison, when that whole thing went down with him, the show just...

To me, I was like, it's not worth watching anymore. Yeah. Yeah. It took the Chris hair. I mean, the show took an absolute nosedive after that. Like just this isn't an opinion. This is just facts. If you look at all the ratings, took an absolute nosedive. Yeah.

And then Golden Bachelor really revived the show. That was pretty great. That was crazy. And the ratings were great. And I even talk, I run a talent management company too. So I was talking to some publicists and some people at different magazines. And I was like, how were like your click-through rates and stuff when you were posting about it? They go absolutely astronomical. So that brought it all right back.

But it still goes, it's still the same format where no outside distractions. So I remember, like, I'll never forget a hometowns. I was sitting across my dad and when I said it, it was real. People always say, is the show scripted? It's not scripted at all. They never, ever, ever tell you what to say, but you start to believe. But they put you in certain situations. Certain situations where the outcome of what the likeliness of what they want to happen increases, right? Yes.

So, but I remember, and I felt this, it was real at the time. I look at it now, I'm like, what was that? But we were hometowns across from my dad's like, dad, I'm really falling in love with her. Like, but I meant it from my heart. It was real. And he like laughed. He was like, who, who is this? Like what? And I was like, no dad. And I'm like, come here. I'm like, dad, seriously. They cut his like laugh out. But it was funny because now looking back on it, he was living his life. And I'm in the weeds in my emotions. And he's just like, wow.

So was that crazy to you to like? Yes. How did you deal with that emotion? Because you did hometown slim. When were you sent home? Yeah. So for you in your life, and I'll answer it. I'm just curious before reality TV. Were you good at expressing your emotions? Good or bad?

Ours was different because ours was more of like a scripted comedy. So we weren't really allowed to have much emotion other than humor. And so I think that's been to my detriment in my personal life at times because I just put on this smile and I'd go on about my day and I just...

push through things. Yes. So that's where it's been tough. And that's what I've had to like work through in therapy is figuring out, figuring out how to express my emotions, especially in my relationship and be more confident in expressing my emotion. Exactly. Okay. And, and that's why I asked because I was extremely similar.

And so I feel like any time I talk about The Bachelor, it goes into like therapy mode. But it's the reality. My entire life, my whole childhood, it was like, if you're going to cry, cry behind doors. You know, like don't show weakness.

pursue with ethics class and etiquette and just in but with right but with that comes a lot of good things I think it's a security mechanism but also with that comes a lot of bad things the bad things are you're bottled up emotional disaster you don't even know what emotions are so for my whole life did that then go three months no phone no tv and have to like wait sit in a camera and then talk about my emotions and how I feel I was like what and not only I didn't know how to do it no and to

With three months of just you're sitting there with yourself. Yeah. And you're trying to build a relationship. Not only are you trying to build a relationship with that person, but now you're forced to build a relationship with yourself. Yes. That you never realized you didn't have. Right. And you go through life just checking boxes. And all of a sudden now someone's like, so why is your last relationship not working?

And you didn't really think about it because you're just like, all right, I'm going to protect myself and move on. And there was a moment, it was like week two, and I was doing an interview and the producer was like, shut it down. We're good. Turn the lights off. And I was like, what just happened? Like, everything's perfect. You're good. Your last relationship's great. Your life's good. Your mom, dad's great. You got nothing going. Everything's fine.

And there's nothing appealing about that. Yeah. And I was like, wow, it was kind of eye opening. And I kind of broke down in that moment. I was like, shit, like actually my life is, you know, a lot of things are quite a mess. I just have never addressed it. And the weird thing, it's The Bachelor that like allows me to connect to my emotions. So like after that, I like really started to learn emotion and understand it. Now through a ton of therapy, I'm like super connected to it. But it was a reality show that did it.

- That's wild. - That's what's crazy. - That's wild. So three months, you did hometowns, and then when were you sent home? - So I was sent home, it was the dinner before Fantasy Suites.

- Yeah, tough. - Oh, what do you think did it? Why do you think you were sent home? - That day, I think she had recognized that there just wasn't a connection of some sort. Like I think it was just things were off. - But looking back for you, do you see that? Like you said you were falling in love with her. - Yeah, for sure. - But do you think you really were? - No, I think I was caught up in everything.

Yeah. I think I was caught up in the idea of it, the facade. I was so into it. That moment when I felt that, it felt real to me. But looking back, I'm like, that's not what love is. And especially too, with how you explained how you grew up, do you think part of your mindset was in that winning mindset of like not failing? Sure. Not failing or also the mindset of like,

when you go to class, you're obedient to do what the teacher says. When your homework is due, you get it done, right? So like the idea you're in a show, you fall in love. Like I think subconsciously that was probably in my mind for sure.

Um, but like looking back on it, I'm watching it. I'm like, what? She wasn't even, she wasn't even remotely like, like at all. Like one time she's like, Oh, that was a good kiss. So I got, you know, there was that there, we had a good kiss, but like you, you kind of, you know, you get,

you get lost in that a little bit. And it's a good learning lesson to like check yourself. Like, do you feel like you might be lost in other areas too? So, but she was great. She was awesome. And it was a, it was a wild, wild experience. Okay. And so bachelorette,

And then you did Bachelor in Paradise, right? So I got offered to go, but my work would have fired me if I went. So that was the season like Colton and I were talking a lot and Blake Horstman and a bunch of us were like, do we go? Do we not go? Colton went. I decided not to go because I would have lost my job. So I didn't go. And I mean, in a way, you can't really blame. Yeah, totally.

A corporate job. Oh, yeah. Because Bachelor in Paradise is not the classiest thing in the entire world. Well, they just let me go on. They just let me go for three months. Yeah. And I got my job back. It's like, you know, I was like, you know, everyone in banking world's a vice president. I was a vice president, senior middle market banker. Like I was doing pretty good. Yeah. And they allowed me to come back. So like, you're going to go again. We're done here. Like this is over.

So then there's the whole summer of mayhem just because the show is being released. All this stuff is happening now. And then there was like kind of talks about the next bachelors and like who it might be or whatever. So I went through the process. I don't think I was ever like going to be, I was never like a lead to get it right. Like I always think it was between Colton or Blake. I was like, I was like the third string quarterback. Yeah.

And so that is when, um, you know, it didn't, that the bachelor thing didn't work out. And that was other than doing, I've done like cameos and things like that on the show, but as a contestant, that was the last run for being on a dating show. Would you ever go back? I would, I would, I would consider,

I would consider going on a dating show. Since I've been single, a few have come my way. I've said no to two of them. And then two, I've said, send more information. So I would consider it. I'm in a weird place right now. Yeah, what place are you in? I want to ask that because I am like social media stalker. And I've seen you like hang out with the same person a few times tagged in the same phone.

And like, so are you dating? Oh, like I'm very single. I'm very single. Like I'm not even remotely, like there's exclusive with no one or anything. Yeah. Like, so who, wait, who? Yeah. But you're saying you said dating. Well, I'm dating. I'm dating. I'm dating. Yeah. Like I'll go on dates. I would, you know, if today I found a good person to go on a date with, I'd go tomorrow morning. Okay. You know, but I'm like, who did you see me tagged in? You got the right guy. Who?

Who's tagging me? Oh, I got the right one. You realized that Nashville is like a really small town when it comes to dating. Yeah, but I haven't really, I haven't dated too much in Nashville. No? No. Come on, talk to me. Bring it out. It's a blonde. A blonde. Okay. You can say it. You can say it. Say it. I don't care. I'm impressed here. I thought they were pretty good. What does her first name start with? S. And it's not me. It's not me, y'all. S. S.

Say her name. Oh, no. No? No. No. No? Why do you respond that way? Oh, she's great. She's great. But yeah, we're not dating. Oh, no.

- You're taking the name out. - Yeah, you're taking the name out. - Okay, so dating, you are dating. - Yeah, most of the time, sure. - You were not like dating around. - I don't know, you know what's weird? Yeah, I don't even, when people ask, I think I get like awkward when people are like, are you dating? Like, what does that mean, are you dating? - That's the thing is people, there are two different definitions. Either like, some people see dating as like one-on-one exclusive. But I feel like in today's day and age, dating is like,

Are you dating around? Are you going out to dinner with people? Are you having drinks? Like I think dating is dating around, like going out with multiple people, trying to figure out what you like, what you don't like. That's how I view dating. Yeah. That's I'm open to that. And that's what I'm doing right now. Okay. Yeah. That's how I view it. Yeah. But you,

Okay, before I start this conversation, I just want to preface it by saying, Caitlin was on my podcast. Cool. It was great. She was awesome. I have so much respect for the two of y'all and how you've handled your breakup. That's nice of you. Just because I feel like it's been very adult and it hasn't been, at least in the public eye, it has not been messy, which... Interesting take. You don't think it's... Or maybe I've missed something. I think that's good.

Y'all do your research. See what I missed. No, I think it's great. Yeah. What did I miss? I don't think you missed anything. I missed something. I can tell. You're terrible. You are a terrible, like, faker. You could read. Yeah. I'm not a good liar. No, you're not at all. I'm a terrible liar. You're not. Okay.

Well, no, I think everyone just like truly, I think everyone would have different takes on that. I think some people would be like, yeah, it's been great and amicable. And I think other people would say otherwise. But you know how that goes in the public eye. You're always going to get other thoughts and comments. Because you guys started dating in 2008, 2008.

Yeah, that's what we met on her pod. So it was actually to go back to like the timeline of it After all that she was kind of pushing for me to be The Bachelor It didn't work out and then she interviewed me when I lived in Seattle and that was the first time I ever met her was on that show okay, and The reason I asked is because like your relationship with her not to compare relationships But I just feel like with the timelines and the ups and downs. It was very similar to my relationship and

of where I was engaged and then it was just after the engagement everything was kinda it like a standstill and got really like up and down. It was weird. When we got engaged it was like, all right, not gonna set a date for a wedding, not gonna do all these, like you were comfortable with each other but you weren't comfortable in moving to the next step was like my situation. - How long were you engaged for?

I've got prostate cancer, but I really wanted to make it to the big game with my grandson. And here we are.

Go, go, go! With Erleada, Apalutamide, being there is possible. Erleada is a prescription medicine used to treat prostate cancer that has spread to other parts of the body and still responds to a medical or surgical treatment that lowers testosterone. Erleada may cause serious side effects including heart disease, stroke, or severe skin reactions which can lead to death, falls, fractures,

Ask your doctor if Erleada is right for you. Or tap this ad to visit Erleada.com. CP43-9267-V1.

Ah, the sizzle of McDonald's sausage. It's enough to make you crave your favorite breakfasts.

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Got engaged. We were engaged like six months, call off the engagement, but continued dating for like two years after that. Yeah. So it was a, I don't know. It was just a very back and forth, like loved each other more than anything in the world. Didn't want to say goodbye, but knew that it just wasn't working. Sure. And so what went, you guys dated for two years, got engaged. When did it kind of all start happening?

falling apart. Yeah. So I think first and foremost, right? We're now, we're now getting into my ex and I's, uh, uh,

relationship and stuff. I think first and foremost, when I think about it, I generally just don't like even stepping into the conversation at all. I think you can understand this too. Being in the public spotlight, there's so many things that come with any conversation connected to it, right? So every word, it's challenging because there's part of me that just wants to be like, unleash everything I'm thinking. The other part of me is like, I

I want to be very thoughtful and careful and treat the situation the same way that I would expect it to be treated if the roles were reversed. Right. So if that makes sense. But I also feel like you're allowed to have your own emotions. You can have a negative feeling, but

but communicate it in a respectful manner. I think what you just said is extremely important. I think that you can have whatever emotion you want to have and you should, and you should express that. And I don't think when you do express that you should be judged or mislabeled for doing that. Right. I've been, I think, very open just about tough times I've had.

I think I've talked a little bit about good times I've had and I've done it in a way that has been, uh, uh,

not from a point of even opinion or hearsay, more of just like, hey, this is kind of what I'm going through a little bit. This is what I'm feeling. This is how I'm working through it. So that's one thing I think that's important. But yeah, you're entitled to have that. The whole thing is, it's a lot. It's a lot. But let's go back to your question because I'll do my best to answer what I think I'll be prepared to answer. Okay.

I think what happens in relationships in general, you're constantly growing, you're constantly evolving. New things enter into your life. And I think right when we got engaged, shortly thereafter, a lot of outside things entered into our life. And I think as a result of that, there are some things that resentment was built and it wasn't worked through. Was it resentment on her side, your side, or both? I think...

I think both. I think in general resentment relationships usually will work in both, right? So suppose it's sparked by one side. Let's just suppose it's sparked by my ex. And then it's very likely that your partner will have resentment because of the resentment that's had. And if you don't work through that, you don't work through that, right? And so I think a lot of things came to fruition that had to be worked through and just they weren't worked through properly in a healthy way.

Right? And I think this is something that comes up in like every relationship. Resentment will build. And I could list my list, you know? And then your partner or ex could list their list. And it's likely those things don't align. That's why I'm like so against, this is why we broke up. These are the things, because of course,

my ex will have her perspective on those things and they're going to be different than that. And if we both agreed on these things, we'd probably still be together. Right. And it's all opinionated hearsay. So I try to, you know, state of that. Was it just the resentment and not having that connection to work through these things? I've already said this stuff, but Caitlin has, Caitlin, Caitlin broke up with me. Right. Okay. So that's out there. So she broke up with you. She broke up with me. We, uh,

tried to you know I was like I have a ton of respect and care for her

Yeah, kind of. Yes. I was, it was like, it was a bit of ignorance and the fact that like, I knew it was coming, but I was avoiding it. You know, like it's kind of the same issue why we were there. It's not, not running through it, but running away from it. So when did you guys actually, so you announced you broke up. I'm such not a rambler. And when I talk on this topic, I am just rambling. How do I skate out of this conversation? It's all I'm thinking about. Okay. Well, but.

to like yeah well so she so she broke up with me then we it was amicable we put a statement out there you put it out there yeah this year but when did she actually break up with you it was in july early july look at aaron's face because she knows where i'm going you could go anyway so early july we publicly put that out there in august yes so she came on my podcast yeah in march okay

- I mean, might as well, we're here. - She came on my podcast in March and I just knew by how she was talking about your relationship. I was like, this is not going anywhere. Like this is gonna end. - Yeah, I've heard there are a lot of conversations I wasn't aware of.

uh, before the breakup that were similar to that. Yeah. Okay. So, and that was a, cause it was just like, there was never a step to move forward. There was never like, let's plan a wedding. Let's do these things. So it's cause that's what I had asked. And she was like, Oh, I'm in no hurry. And like I said, I have so, I don't, I have so much respect. I have so much, she was awesome. But I just knew then that I felt like your relationship like was not

I didn't even know honestly at that point if y'all were still together just by like social media interaction and stuff like that. Yeah. And so that's why it reminded me so much of Nick and I because I was like I remember being in this place and it's kind of like you're damned if you do damned if you don't. Yeah. Like you love this person so much you want it to work but for some reason it's like there's this big thing that you can't identify. Yeah. That you're like struggling to swim back to like fix it fix it fix it and it's like you both just can't

you both just can't get there. - Can't swim together, I get it. - It wasn't any bad, it was just you could just tell when someone's ready to move forward and someone's not. - Yeah, it was gradually growing apart. I was a bit in denial. And when the breakup happened, I really wanted to, I'm like, all right,

let's work, let's do anything, let's try and salvage it. But at that point it was too late. And I think even if you felt that tone in March, obviously it was a long time before that. And in my head there were things, I think I lived a little bit in a cloud. - 'Cause now when you look back, you're like, I should have seen this, this, and this. - Yeah, I should have seen it and I should have stepped into it earlier, right? - And so what would you say was your biggest downfall?

My biggest downfall, a hundred percent was not stepping into conflict. Like not, not like,

because people view conflict is like it has a negative connotation around it yeah when in reality conflict can be used in a relationship to grow together and become stronger than you've ever been that's all conflict is conflict is growth trying to happen right like that's all it is and so i think if i'm looking at myself running in the uh i think running from it i think also knowing that i

That I think she was kind of like truly falling out of love. I went into like a security protection mode. Okay. As opposed to trying to salvage. It was like, gotta, you know, try and make myself feel safe. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. I was at church yesterday. So...

what the pastor said, passion is a willingness to endure pain for the thing that matters more than pain. Yeah. And I think that really spoke to me because you think like the growth process is really hard. Yeah. But,

Is that harder or is the pain of looking back and realizing you didn't do the growth harder? You know what I mean? Like all the hards are hard, right? You just have to figure out like, what is the end result worth it? A hundred percent. And what's, I think if you bring end result, knowing everything I know now, um,

It took me a long time to get acceptance with grieving. A long time. - And you have to grieve. - You have to, oh, and trust me, I grieve. - Because through the years that y'all were together, that's what I say about Nick and I, like, even with all the ups and downs that he and I had and the good times and the bad times, only you two know the depths of the really good and the really bad. - Of course, yeah. - And through, for me, through five years, basically, with someone, I was like, that's,

That's five years of your life. Yeah. And you spend so much time with that person. Totally. Like you have to grieve the loss of them. I think a good learning lesson for me too. I was very in love with my ex, but then I realized now that I let that, that love go.

blind me from things I should have seen. Right. And so when I go through this grieving process of from like July and you started obviously before July, just feeling it to now, now we're in January, February, 2024, whenever this comes out, it took so many steps and it wasn't a linear thing. It wasn't like, go, go, go. I'd bounce back. Like I'd be right towards acceptance. I go back to bargaining, but like what's good now. And like, so healthy is that

February or whenever, whenever this airs, it's late January. I now have full acceptance. Like I know with certainty, even when I look back at all the thumb pointing, the things I should have done better and been a better partner. And I will be in my next relationship. I know a certainty that she absolutely was not my person. I know a certainty. I absolutely wasn't her person. At the same time, you guys helped prepare each other for your person. Correct. Yeah. And that's why I see like, I,

I think old me would have before therapy or even I find myself kind of falling back into certain patterns. But like old me is like, oh, a relationship ends. That person has to be the worst person ever. You know, I think that's a very immature mindset of like, all right, relationship ends. You're terrible. I have to hate you.

Yeah. Now I look at relationships as like every person is helping to prepare you for your person. Correct. And you can love things about someone and love times with someone, but realize that's not who you're supposed to be with. For sure. Yeah. And I think with today's day and age, it's kind of like all or nothing. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel like, and I hate it because I don't believe you have to be all or nothing with someone. I do believe after time passes, you can be friends with someone or you can be cordial or whatever it may be. Yeah. But in today's day and age, it's just not that way. Yeah. It's yeah. It's not. It's yeah. It's interesting. Today's day and age is like a

especially with dating, it's a wild, wild game. Like, I mean, just the whole thing is nuts. But yeah, I mean, it's been a process, but I have acceptance and I feel I'm learning, you know? With yourself, like now that you look at it. And so I have a therapist that...

says like, all right, what are your non-negotiables? Yeah. So I had a therapist say, all right, write down on a piece of paper what your non-negotiables are. And like, these are what you have to stick to, that you have to hold yourself accountable for it. And they cannot change.

just based off the people that you meet. So you write it in such a time of like singleness and being good with being single. And it's like, these are the things I really want out of someone. And so what would you say, have you thought about that? Like what your non-negotiables are? Number one, support. Like you have to be able to support as much as you're being supported. That's number one. Number two is integrity and honesty.

And I think when it went in, if you see flaws in that, like got to be addressed. And then I think respect and loyalty. Those are some really, really big ones, which are like basic, but...

It's more than just saying that. It's like really understanding that. It's about understanding action. Yeah. Yeah. Action verse. Yeah, exactly. And someone that's just like, you need a partner that's going to have your, like in this world, there's so many things moving against you and your partner and happiness and success. And you need someone that's going to like truly through it all, have your back.

Like that's, you need a ride or die. You know, when no one's looking, that person's got to be there for you. So those are some really important things. And so are you, are you a religious person at all? I grew up with a Jewish mother and a Catholic father. I was baptized and confirmed. And I would say I like kind of,

I think especially with a gay brother, I saw a lot of things within just structured religion that I thought was a little bit, I saw a lot of hypocrisy. It was hateful. Right? I think there's a lot of beautiful things in religion too. I've got prostate cancer, but I really wanted to make it to the big game with my grandson. And here we are.

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understanding good versus evil, and there's so much good that comes with it. So through my journey, I've kind of stayed away, I guess, from structured religion, if that makes sense. But I still believe in a higher being, and I still believe that there's so much greater than us. And I think that question probably feels like it came out of nowhere, but in my mind where I was going with it was...

just in the older I get, the more I realize how important it is to have for me, like religion as the foundation of a relationship. Yeah. Because especially with everything I've gone through this past year or last year, it's all runs together. Um,

I realized how much I leaned on my faith and how at times when I'm like, all right, this doesn't make sense or why is this happening? Like I, something happens to where I'm like, no one can explain it. Like that's a God thing. And so I realized that when you have that strong foundation in your faith, it leads to better.

better integrity, better honesty. And you just have something to go off of that at the end of the day you too can go back to when the going gets tough. - Yes, yeah, I think that's super important. I think that's super important.

now when you look at it, because and to the point that I've said so many times before that I believe couples wait and I say this because I learned it. I believe couples wait until it's too late to do couples therapy. Yeah, yeah, totally. And now I look at it and I'm like, all right, I want to do like therapy with someone.

like very early on because I don't believe that therapy is a means to fix something that's broken. Totally. It can be a means to truly learn about the person you're with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think with your experience you would maybe... Hell yeah. I'd go to, yeah. My next relationship will probably start by going to couples therapy.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I absolutely think there's so much that dictates who we are and why we are and understanding that for ourselves and as one is so important. So I am a huge proponent of therapy, huge proponent of couples therapy.

And especially in a world where you're seeking so many answers, right? I think you look back, you look back at like previous relationships and you really, you think through answers, answers you didn't get, answers you don't understand, timelines that you're questioning, things like that, that dictate where you are today and how. And so I think,

therapy just like provides answers and not having answers creates confusion. Confusion creates a bit of a disarray, you know? And I think every single relationship endures that, but it's just like fighting your way through it to really, and it takes two people that really want to do it. Right. I mean, it really does. I think that's the biggest thing. It's like your, your,

you're ready for it and your partner's not or your partner's ready for it and you're not. It's so hard to be ready for it at the same time. Exactly. Yeah. The benefits of therapy are massive and it's important. And I've, you know, every relationship I try, like when they don't work out, I try and really do like

that this self-aware accountability where did i go wrong how could i be better for the next one so all right so for the a fun question okay one question who is your favorite person in the bachelor bachelorette franchise wow that's a good one favorite person

like favorite, like cast. Okay. I'm going to do one right now. I'm going to give you a list of people I really like, but the first one I'm going to say top of mind, his season comes out Monday, Joey G he's the bachelor. I was friends with him in Nashville before he actually went on the show. Oh,

So he called me. I'm like, I'm being casted. We talked through it all. Goes on The Bachelorette. Now is The Bachelor. Great guy. Really humble dude. I think his season's going to be incredible. So he's great. Still good friends with, you know, Blake Horsman's a really good dude. Keep in touch with Chris, Ben Higgins, Wells Adams. There's a bunch of really, really good people in the franchise. Okay. We went to Chris Harrison's wedding. I know.

- No, I saw that. - So like, I didn't ever meet JoJo. JoJo was incredible, like so cool, so much fun. - That's awesome. - Ashley, I, Tanner, Jade, all that like,

You know, everyone is, it's a good group. It really is. And so, you know, when I ask that question, you're also going to get the opposing question. What's the opposing question? Who your least favorite person in the Bachelor franchise would be. Look at that face. I don't think I have to answer that one. I think the Bachelor Nation will figure it out based on my look. No, yeah, it's all good.

Well, thank you for coming on, Paul. It's all good. We're going to let the audience guess who your least favorite person in the Bachelor, Bachelorette franchise is. There you go. Let them guess. So what's next for you career-wise?

career-wise i have my book coming out it's talk money to me podcast is doing well we're a top 25 business podcast so focusing on that we're going to do two episodes a week coming soon doing a book tour and then i run a talent management company which last year revenue grew 2x so continue to work on that and then i don't know just see whatever comes this year i'm like i'm just like

just go. I'm usually like thoughtful and like, where am I going to go? And strategic and thinking about this year is like the year of impulse. You know what I mean? I just like whatever. When I called off my engagement, like, and when we truly like broke up, I was like, this is the year of yes. Yeah. This is the year of yes. Opportunities that come my way. Say yes. Experience things. And so...

And I'm going to know the thing too. I'll say I'm an overthinker. Like even three months ago on this podcast, four months ago, I'd be like, no, I'm not going to come on because I know we're going to have to talk about my relationship. Whatever. It's a part of my past. It is what it is. People can judge what I say. I really love to get to know people. And I feel like the only way you get to know people is through, unfortunately, the really tough stuff. Sure. Sure. Everyone.

loves to hear a good win but like people want to know what makes you you yeah so where can people find your podcast so people can find my podcast on apple spotify or wherever you download podcasts called trading secrets it's on youtube trading secrets podcast we have a facebook group and then an instagram trading secrets podcast i love it well thank you and i'm excited to come on your podcast next thank you for having me i'm excited to do a podcast swap

Sometime in the early 80s, REO Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced middle-of-the-night landing. This is my friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks. And he's telling me about how he discovered a real-life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not far from where he filmed Blue Velvet. What was on the plane was copious amounts of drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly, Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots, quiet, out-of-the-way places to bring in his cocaine.

My name is Joshua Davis, and I'm an investigative reporter. Kyle and I talk all the time about the strange things we come across, but nothing was quite as strange as what we found in Varnumtown, North Carolina. There's crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got a story to tell, but does the truth even exist? Welcome to Varnumtown. Varnumtown is available wherever you listen to podcasts. Hold on to your jingle bells. Pluto TV has all your holiday favorites for free.

Enjoy our season's greetings category with nine holiday channels, including holiday movie favorites by Lifetime, Festive Fireplace, Holiday Lights, and Hallmark Movies and More. Download the Pluto TV app on all your favorite devices and start streaming holiday favorites on live channels and on demand. With thousands of free movies and TV shows, Pluto TV is your home for the holidays. Pluto TV, stream now, pay never.

I've got prostate cancer, but I really wanted to make it to the big game with my grandson. And here we are.

Go, go, go! With Erleada, apalutamide, being there is possible. Erleada is a prescription medicine used to treat prostate cancer that has spread to other parts of the body and still responds to a medical or surgical treatment that lowers testosterone. Erleada may cause serious side effects including heart disease, stroke, or severe skin reactions which can lead to death, falls, fractures,

Ask your doctor if Erleada is right for you. Or tap this ad to visit Erleada.com. CP43-9267-V1.

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