Making Peace with Hard Memories ft. Jana Kramer
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Welcome back to Unlocked. I'm so excited because we have Jana Kramer on. Welcome. Hi. I'm so excited. Okay. We've been trying to get you on forever. Ditto. I've been trying to have you on my show too. Hey, we're going to. Okay. All right. I'm excited. Yeah. Thank you for having me. No, of course. And congratulations on the baby. Thanks. Thanks. I'm so excited for you. I, yeah, it's, I'm, um, I, my therapist, actually my therapist, I was talking about her, but whenever her,

I think it was last session. She goes, would you have ever been able to just say, okay, from, cause I was showing her a photo of something in my camera. She's like a year later that you're going to be pregnant. You're going to know, like none, none of the above. None of the above. I would have been like, absolutely not. That's for someone else. Did you think you were finished having kids? Oh, 1 million percent. So it was like total freak. Well, no, no. So, um,

When I was dating again, post-divorce, people would ask and I'd be like, yeah, I'm done. Like I've had my two, I'm almost 40. Like I've had multiple miscarriages. Like it's done for me. And then when I met Alan and he asked me, I was like, I don't know, like maybe I'm not done. And there was something that we, for us, I thought it would kind of be cool to create something together. But- Well, I feel like when you meet,

Like the right person. Yeah. You want a piece of them. Yeah. And like a, like, yeah, it almost feels like, I don't know, like I, I would, yeah, I'd love to create something with him and like have like something that's ours. Yeah. And I think I would have always regretted if we didn't try. Mm-hmm.

so when we had talked about it and all my girlfriends were like i knew you were gonna have another one i'm like really like because i just was like nope i'm done no more but i think it was because i was so afraid of losing again and then or failing again and so with him i basically was like all right i probably won't be able to i can get pregnant i just can't keep a pregnancy minus the two that i had um when those were iv after ivf and doing lots of shots and stuff so

I told him, I was like, I don't know if I want to go through the pain of losing again because that just is going to just send me on like a whole tailspin and then I'll feel bad. And then I said, I don't really know if I want to go past 40. So I was like, well, let's just maybe give it this year and just see what happens. And it was the first month, no medicine, no nothing. I wasn't even like I tried the ovulation sticks, but it said I wasn't ovulating. I was like, I think I'm already in menopause because I'm not ovulating at all. And then it was like,

pregnant. That's amazing. So now to backtrack a little bit, for people that don't know your story, I feel like you've had like years of just

crap. And like, I feel like I'm like, okay, when is going to be like, when is there light at the end of the rainbow? You know? Yeah. But so starting back, cause how long has it been? I mean, how old's Jolie now? Jolie is going to be eight in January. Wait. So, cause I remember coming over to your house. It was like right when everything had gone down, I think. And Jolie was little. I just remember sitting there playing with her and her

on the floor and it was right when you had gone through everything and I think it was, and you've spoken about it before, just like destroying all your ex's stuff. Like his wedding tux, everything, just destroying it. And I think it was right around that time. Yeah, I went a little crazy. I destroyed everything. I mean, every photo.

It was like when my daughter would nap, I would just take everything into the garage and just start like I'd hammered like all of his Xboxes and shattered all our photos. And I went like white girl crazy. And how long were you all together? Total seven years. Okay. Total seven years. And then obviously you've got a new book coming out. What was your first book titled? The Good Fight. Okay. Okay.

Yes. And it was a good, I mean, we really fought hard to keep our marriage together. I just think it was, I think he knew that he was so in a hole that he couldn't get out that I don't think we could have ever repaired our marriage together. I think I still believe that people can work through infidelity in a marriage and we both believe that, but I don't think we would have been able to ever come back from the amount of

rediscoveries that we had in our marriage. It was just because it just kept the trust was just, yeah. I mean, we, we had no foundation. We had no blocks to, to build from. I mean, it was just a constant, um,

destruction of pain and toxicity. And so it was like, and then I just became the absolute worst version of myself. I just became so controlling. And I wrote about in my book, like how I just, I was gripping on so tight 'cause I didn't wanna let go of my family. And so he felt controlled.

it was just a bad, bad time. Yeah. Well, because when you feel like you're on the way to repairing and then something else happens and then something else happens. I think you spoke about that pretty heavily on like you had a lot of hope and then something else would happen and it would break everything apart. Yeah. So I'm like, well, how can you say this? And then we had all the tools, right? And so it's just two people have to be willing to do the work. And I think it's really hard when

someone, you know, especially mostly the perpetrator is like, just get over it. And it's like, well, we can't just get over it. And he's like, how long are you going to be talking about? Well, what just happened four months ago. So you're going to have to give me a little bit of grace to go. Okay. I might be a little worried when, you know, someone randomly texts you and, or I see something. So, yeah. And so when was the moment that you were finally like, okay, this is it. And when was that time in comparison to when the world found out about it? Sure. So,

Everything was pretty instant. It was the last go around. I just knew something had happened again. And I was just like, I cannot go through it again. And everyone always said, you're going to have your breaking point. But I'm like, all right, I've had six years of destruction and rugs being pulled from me or new discoveries. And so...

It was truly that moment where I was just like the pain of staying is worse than leaving. Like I have to get out and cause it's just, it's not changing and this will be my life for the rest of my life if I don't get out right now. So I, you know, I write about in the book what I found. And is that in the first book or the second? Second. Okay. That's about to come out. Yeah. That's, that was the one where I finally was just like, it's time to wake up because it happened again. This is what I found. And yeah,

It was within a week is when I filed and then let, and for me too, and I wrote about this where I said, I had to put it out there sooner than later because I knew for me, I would go back. And you had to, in a way, be held accountable because I would look like an idiot. Once again, if I, you know, something came out and then I took him back, I'm like, I have to like, I have to put this out there because I need everyone else to hold me accountable to be done.

because I don't want to look like a fool yet again. Why do you think you kept going back? My kids. My kids are my whole entire world. And it's very unfair when someone's actions can dictate your life and the rest of or end your family. So, I mean, to this day, it's still hard saying bye to my kids. That's not a normal thing. That's not something I dreamt about as a little girl. You know, I come from a divorced family.

I never wanted kids in a divorced family. So for me, it was one of those things where I didn't want to have to separate the holidays. I didn't want my daughter to be raised by somebody else. So the first time that I found out she was really little and I was just like, I don't want her to know anybody else's mom. And because I'm her mother, I know every inch of her. I know every part of her.

She came from me. And so it was like this mama bear protection. And I also wanted to be able to say I did absolutely everything I could do to save this marriage and to fight for you and for the kids. But at the end of the day, it was something where...

it was not a healthy household for them to be in. - That's what I was gonna ask because obviously you hear all these stories of separation and kids involved. And I feel like I've always had the mindset of like, if that were, and it's so easy for me to say, 'cause I'm not in that position, but like,

I have friends who have gone through the divorce and I tell them all the time I'm like but wouldn't you rather your kids see you so happy and in love and a healthy relationship than for them to base their opinions off of an unhealthy relationship one thousand percent yeah and I think like again I grew up in that kind of toxicity as a kid my parents didn't divorce until I was 13 14 so I wish I didn't see the stuff that I saw because I think that's why I stayed

for so long and my last marriage was because I'm like, well, this is what you do. You stay and you fight through it. But I wish my parents actually divorced sooner so that I didn't have to witness. Like I would have loved to have seen like how my fiance is now. I mean, he's so sweet. He'll be like, guys, your mommy is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. I love her so much and just gives me so much love and affection. I'm like, I don't think my kids ever saw Mike ever give me a hug or a kiss in front of them, you know? So it's like,

It's just to let Alan model how, you know, a husband is supposed to be around them and how they're supposed to treat their mother. It's like this message is brought to you by the Cologuard test. Cologuard is a one of a kind way to feel more in control of your colon cancer screening through a use at home test with none of the prep that's required for a colonoscopy.

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"That's what my kids should be seeing. "That's what the house should be filled with." - And so how early on did they meet Alan?

I think it was three months. Okay. Yeah. At the three month mark. Okay. And how did they adjust to that? Well, he was still living in England. So a lot of it, it started just as FaceTime calls. Yeah. Like this is mommy's friend. And then like with Jolie, I'm like, mommy has a crush, you know? So we kind of did it like that. And then, uh, it was when Jolie was ready. I always put everything kind of, I was like, Hey Jolie, when you, um,

when you feel comfortable and you want like to meet mommy's friend, you just like, let me know. And so, yeah. So she was like, I want to meet him. And I'm like, okay. So then he flew over and then, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. It was great. That is awesome. And it's just so fun now to see, I mean, Jace, I mean, they just, they love him so much and it's great. My ex and him get along really well too. So everyone just gets along really well. That is amazing because rarely do you have that. Right. Yeah.

But I also think it's because that's what I want to create, right? So it's like I could hate my ex for the rest of my life and I could be the most bitter, angry person

woman with him given the history and what he did to like my family and our family because I feel like you as a person you could forgive him for what he did to you but when it comes to what he's done to the kids and breaking apart a family I think that's probably where you struggle most I struggle there I struggle with the financial piece of things obviously there's still a little like

I still get a little rubbed when I like have to pay child support. Like those kind of things that kind of rub me because I'm like, wait, because of your...

You're you did. I have like, it's like, which that is crazy to swallow. Like that is crazy to me. Cause I know like in certain States, if there's infidelity, you don't. Yeah. Tennessee doesn't care. Really? No, it's no fault with that. But yeah, it's crazy. But having said all that, it's one of those things again, where I don't want to carry that hate and I don't want my kids. Like I just want my kids to see us all really happy. And in, in, in all reality, um,

I kind of look at my life now and I'm like, thank you for what you did because I've, I've now get to experience what a beautiful love looks like and what a beautiful, like how, how it's supposed to look. That's amazing. It's in a weird way. I'm like, thank you. Like I'm, I'm still sad that, you know, certain times saying goodbye to the kids and thank you. Yeah. Because if you wouldn't have done what you did, it wouldn't have led me to where I'm at. Yeah.

I literally just had this conversation with someone. I'm like, this is so crazy because it's so true. Now your healing process, what did that look like? So the healing process. Because you spoke about destroying everything. So it started there probably. So it started there. Well, that was the very first time I found out. That was the year into our marriage. Okay. So then I think every discovery, I just became...

More angry, more numb, more just more controlling. Yeah. And then when we finalized or when I filed for divorce, after that, I thought I was fine. I thought I was already healed. It was just he was the issue. And so...

I didn't really think I needed to do solo work because I'm like, I've been doing therapy with him for seven years. I'm freaking tired. The only reason you're the way that you are is because of him. Like I, I, I'm controlling because he cheated so many times. I'm, you know, I can manipulate this because he did this. And so I had to like be the, uh, the cop or, and try to the detective. So I am this. Yeah, exactly. I am this way because of him. And so that's just kind of what I put it all on. And so then when I,

started dating again post divorce, I was like not only picking the same kind of men who weren't honest when they, you know, I dated someone who was not honest with me from the get go. And well then what happens to me? I become controlling. I become manipulative. I become a version of myself that I was in my marriage because I can't trust someone. And so I just again become this like really unhealthy version of me.

And then I was like, the issue isn't the guy, the issue is me. Like, A, why am I picking people like this? What are the messages that I'm believing in myself to think that I deserve this? And why am I staying in it even when I know that someone's lied to me? So...

It was a massive deep dive. I went to Onsite for the third time. - I love, I'm like-- - Love Onsite. But I was like, I've done the groups. I need to now sit in a room one-on-one with therapist for eight hours a day and just like figure out what's going on. And what I realized was I always thought

my ex-husband had all the shame because of all the bad stuff that he did. I was also carrying years of shame because I thought I wasn't good enough or I thought I deserved abuse because of previous domestic abuse relationships. And so

Carrying all that. Well, of course, I'm gonna pick unhealthy people because I don't think I deserve anything better than that. And of course, I'm gonna control because that's the only way that I have any control whatsoever in a situation where I can feel like I have some power that I won't get hurt or whatever my rational thinking was. And so it was painful. It was hard. I had to look in the mirror of things. I had to apologize to certain people too along the way that I hurt.

uh because of my own holes inside of myself my own destruction like i just you know i just not i don't say destroyed great people but i hurt some really great people because of my own issues and brokenness and so those were tough conversations and wow and how did you approach that one of the people that i reached out to i said

I've been wanting, cause it's true. Like I've been wanting to send this text for a long time. And there was, there was someone that you had dated or that you had someone that I was romantically like, yeah. Uh, that I just did so wrong. Yeah. It was so just terrible. And, um, like cheated like the whole thing. Yeah. And, um, not in a marriage. I did not cheat in my marriage.

And so I reached out to him and I said, "I'd love to have a conversation with you if you're open to it." And so he ended up coming over and

And I was just like, I don't want you to say anything. I don't want you to say you forgive me. I don't want you to say it's okay. I don't want you to, I was like, I just need to say I'm sorry. And I listed all the reasons, like things I was sorry is I shouldn't have played with you like that. Your heart like that. When I knew that he was kind of an essentially a pawn and like me getting out of another relationship. Like it was just, I was like, I wanted to feel loved and I used you to make me feel that way. And that's a really sick and, um,

Wow. And it was hard. And then he was like, it's okay. I'm like, no, please don't. I'm like, this is not, I do not want to be forgiven. He's like, no, he's like, I'm sorry too. He's like, cause he's like, I also played my part in, in that as well. He's like, I knew that you were going through something and, and he's like, I brought my stuff too. And so I realized in that moment that two people can, you know, and again, he didn't have to say any of that, but that we all play a part in a relationship. And, and,

when things go wrong. So whether it's, again, I was the more person at fault, but he still had a piece. And I thought that was, it was just a beautiful, I was like, wow, like, okay, even though I was more in the wrong for things, you can still own your stuff too. That's amazing. And that was huge. But it took a lot of time and work and to get to that place. Yeah. Wow. But it's great because I also like now,

you know, everyone's like, well, what's the difference between the relationship you're in now? And I'm like, oh, he just respects me so much. And I had this light bulb moment. - But you respect yourself. - Well, now I deserve, I now deserve respect. Like I know that now. Before I'm like,

I would never have thought I deserved someone like him or I wouldn't have even been attracted to that at all. I would have pushed him away so far and destroyed it on my own because that's what I would do. Anything that was good for me or healthy, I would destroy and ruin that person so they couldn't... But do you think that came from your past of abuse and...

Cause I know, I remember you spoke about it. I think the month that is for domestic abuse and stuff like you spoke about it. So it is something you've been open about. Yeah. And so that journey, when was that? So that was, well, I mean, the messages started, my father wasn't abusive, but I grew up in a very angry household. I saw a lot of fighting that wasn't great fighting. Yeah. Um,

So from there and the daddy kind of issues came in. I like was attracted to the older men, but it was the the aggressors, which were the guys that I was mostly attracted to and the abusers. And so but it was 19 is when I met my first abuser and he was 20 plus years older than me. And yeah. So but again, it was because I believed all the messages as a kid that I'd

I deserved that. I deserved abuse. I wasn't enough. That was my, you know, my worth. So, you know, it makes sense. And, but it was, it was hard. One of the hardest chapters in the book was writing about, cause I don't talk about the domestic abuse piece a lot just because it's, I still have a little bit of shame around it. And in the book, one of the chapters is I was talking about an incident where I was hiding in a bush cause the guy was trying to kill me. And I'm like, and I, when I was reading the audio part of that, I'm like,

Why are you hiding in a bush? Like, get out of it. Like, what are you doing? Like, I still have a little bit of like, why did you, why were you there? Like, I know why I was there and I've done all the work around it, but it's still, sometimes I'm a little, there's just shame around that. Like I wasn't strong enough to be like, I do not deserve this. But of course I didn't think I deserved it because of all the years as in childhood and everything else. Do you feel like there's part of you that when people, cause I've said, even said myself, I've done a lot of work on, um,

just trauma that I endured as a kid and going forward. And do you ever feel that there's part of you that's afraid to get to that a hundred percent healing and fear of not knowing who you are without that? I totally hear what you're saying on that. Um, I think for me, it's, I don't, my work now is

feeling like I deserve the peace and the safe place that I'm in now because I'm still constantly waiting for the shoe to drop. I'm used to chaos. I'm used to like to the blow ups and the big fights and the, I mean, I used to get in my ex's face and just be like, you know, almost wanting the hit. Right. Um, I don't want that anymore. I've like, I've resolved that piece of things, but that's just the constant work that you always said. I don't think

I can't sit here and say I am fully healed. Everything is because there's something that came up the other day in therapy where I'm like, God, I've worked on this. Why is this still coming up? Like this is years like why like

She's like, your, your body will always remember. Your body keeps the score. Yeah. Yep. And she's like, it's healing doesn't just stop. Like you will always be healing. You'll be growing. She's like, your response times will be less and it's not as often anymore. But yeah, there's still moments where I have to check myself and go, okay, this is a very old pattern and I need to address it and, uh, you know, either bring it back to therapy or, uh,

you know, handle it differently. So, and so what would you tell people who think that like, I'm already 30 years old or I'm already, and like, I'm just never going to be healed and I'm never going to get to that place of happiness. And cause I feel like maybe there was times for you to where you felt that way. For sure. I mean, I was in my bed,

going, no one's ever going to love me. I'm the common denominator. I'm the problem. I look at how many times I've been married and look at, you know, who's, who's gonna, who's gonna want this? Like I'm washed up. I'm X, Y, and Z. And that could have been a choice that I, that's, that could have been a narrative that I could have continued to believe in. But I also know why I've gone, why I did all those things.

And there's gonna be someone that will see that I'm not that same person that made those choices. And I have a choice to either stay in my old narrative or choose a new one and do better with a new narrative. So I think for me personally, happiness is a choice. I know it can be hard on like the mental health side of things like, but...

when it comes to choosing, okay, today, I'm not going to play the, oh, it's, I'm bad, I'm washed up, or I don't deserve love. Okay, well, I'm going to, I'm going to, I believe that I deserve love, and I deserve those things. So I'm going to repeat it until I believe it. And I'm going to choose the new narrative, because I don't want to be playing out this victim card or the, oh, it's all their fault, or, or I'm the problem. Like, I just don't

where is that going to get me? Nowhere. It's not going to get me. Yeah, exactly. It's going to get me nowhere. So I'd rather choose the narrative that I want to believe. And I mean, I would write it on my mirrors, sticky notes until I looked at and go, you are enough.

That was literally on site. Like my word for the week was worthy. And it was just like telling yourself over and over again, like you are worthy. You're worthy of the best. You're worthy of all these things. And sometimes you have to, it's like, I find myself posting things on social media, like these quotes. And it's like, I so badly want to believe them.

When you post them and it's like, I hope everyone else believes these because I don't believe it. But it's like you're so badly wanting to believe it. Yeah. And sometimes you just need to like say it over and over until you do. Mm hmm.

Dial-up your day.

Every sandwich has bread. Every burger has a bun. But these warm, golden, smooth steamed buns? These are special. Reserved for the very best. The Filet-O-Fish. And you. You can have them too. For a limited time, the classic Filet-O-Fish you love is joining your McDonald's favorites on the 2 for $3.99 menu. Limited time only. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Single item at regular price. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

This episode of Unlocked is brought to you by BetterHelp. You guys know I've spoken about BetterHelp before, and that's because I am a huge, huge, huge advocate for therapy. Our mental health should always come first. Really, ever since I was a child, I have struggled with my mental health.

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Once you went through that whole process of like your healing journey and then going back to dating, how was that? So after onsite here in a second, I'll look at that. I'm going to look at, look at the word. It's yours. Not a coincidence, my friend. That's crazy. Chills. I haven't, you know, I haven't worn that in probably a couple of years that I went, I was like, I need a long necklace today. I've literally, I'm like,

that's okay that's crazy it literally says worthy on it that's insane a lot of mine say believe in enough and for some reason I was like oh worthy I was like huh it's yours wow weird wow so many god moments I'm like that's insane holy cow that's I've yeah that's wow I'm like in shock by that yeah that's what I was like wait a minute I was like you're like

That's amazing. Yeah. And that's, and it's moments like that, that I'm like, all right, God is there. Little God wings. Yeah, it is. It is. It's wow. That's insane. Gosh. Okay. Well, and this is the giving keys, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so isn't the whole point of it is give the word to someone that needs it. Wow. That is such a God thing. Holy cow. And that's just weird. Cause I literally have not worn that in like a couple of years.

Yeah. That's amazing. Crazy. I love that. Wow. You're amazing. Thank you. Okay. No. So back to your day. Um, how was it? So after that experience, I was like, you know, I've never dated. I've always just hopped right into relationships and been like, okay, I need to mold this like perfect family. Like, and I just tried to force it all the time. And so I'm like, I promised myself and my

guy did onsite that I would not get into a relationship for six months. And my friends were like, okay. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm doing it. And I even lasted longer than that. Uh, and I just dated and had fun. I called it hot girl summer, not because I was like, you know, going off and sleeping with people, but it was, it was just like a lot of dates. And I got to see what I liked, what I didn't like. And I got to go, you know what? Normally I had this one guy at my house and

And normally I would have stayed there and continued the day, maybe done things that I didn't want to, but I felt bad. Yeah. Right. Because they like flew in or something. And I was like, I need I need you to I'm just not feeling this. Like I just I I I want to be and I was like, I want to be home alone. Right. Like I just I didn't want anyone in my space. And so that was it.

I felt bad for that. He was not happy, but at the same time, I'm like, I'm honoring what I wanted in my space. And so I realized. That had to have felt so liberating. It was incredible. And I like, I wanted to feel bad, but I didn't. I was just like, I really just want to be alone right now. Cause he was like, are you good? And I'm like, yeah. And I don't think you're going to like what I'm going to say. I just kind of want to be alone in my house right now. And I'm sorry. I know you flew here and just not feeling it. And I just want to be alone. I was like, guys,

And then I felt so bad though, because he hates me, but you know, I, but I had to honor, I started honoring myself and honoring things that, you know, I would have never done before. Okay. So that was fun. What's, what's a funny story that you're like through the dating process that you're just like, well, I'll say this, and this is not, you know, um, it isn't the funny, like the funniest story, but it's the,

Don't X people when you until you give them a shot because okay, for example my fiance he DM to me and I Ignored it because I'm like he lives in England like you know these other guys on ride They're like France and I like Australia. It's like all these places I'm like I'm mom of two kids in Nashville, Tennessee like what like this is so silly I could have easily just continued to ignore that DM and I think I

I wouldn't write people off just because of like, get to know everybody and just try it all out. Cause you never know what could happen. - So what made you respond? - He, so he like DM'd me and then I saw it and I was just like, I never like looked at his page or whatever. I just kind of saw his little circle thing. Cause he was private.

And then I was just like, oh yeah, thanks for reaching out. We said a few things back and forth and then we exchanged numbers, but he WhatsApp me and I'm like, I'm not on WhatsApp. So I'm like, I don't have WhatsApp or like the notifications. So I kind of honestly forgot about him. And then I looked at my WhatsApp, which is on like my fourth thing on my phone. And I saw some messages on there. I was like, who's WhatsAppping me? And I was like, oh, it's this guy, coach or whatever from England.

And then his messages were really sweet. So then I would respond back, but then I'd forget again because I don't have it on notifications. And then like one night, like a couple months later, I actually did a deep dive and was like, oh, he's actually kind of cute. So I was like, well, I don't know if the kids like this, you know, Christmas on. So maybe I could have a fun little getaway to England. And then I took a chance at love. And there was that when you, um,

Did you post that you were in England, but you didn't post it? He did not post that. I was a man. No, he came to Nashville first though. I made sure of that. I was like, I'm not flying all the way over there until like I meet you first. So he came there and then you took a trip to England. Yeah. And how was it? It was honestly not great because he had the flu. So he was miserable. So like I had, you know, and he was working and,

We had fun together, but I could tell he was miserable. But at first I'm calling my best friend, Kristen. I'm like, I don't really think he likes me, but it was because he had the flu and we didn't know this till the end of the trip. So he was pale and sweating and like, just like, like trying to show me around London, like half dying. Stop. Yeah. So yeah. But then the second London trip went amazing. London is like my favorite place. Yeah. I love it. It was fun. So when did you know?

I knew when I met him in Nashville and I know that's like, sounds so cheesy. It is not. I knew the moment he turned around like a 1 million percent. And that next day I did a video going, I'm going to marry him. He's, he's my one. I told my girlfriends, I have it on like on my phone video, like timestamped everything. Yeah. Yeah.

- That is amazing. - My friends were like, "Wait, wait, what?" And I was like, "I know I sound ridiculous." And my best friend, Catherine was like- - I swear you and I are the same person. - My best friend, Catherine, when she's like, "Guys, listen." She's like, "I've known Jana now for 15 years." She's like, "She's actually never, she's married the guys, but she's never actually said that this was the one." So she was like, "Not even with Mike." So she's like, "This does sound different." And I'm like, "See, I told you." - She married them, but she never said that they were the one. - Nope, never said they were the one. No, no, no.

is amazing oh my gosh I love that yeah that is awesome yeah but yeah no we are very we like we love to love that's so how long were you dating before you got pregnant it's October but and that's the thing though when you know you know five six months okay yeah but the

especially when you've gone through a lot of stuff, you know, pretty much right off the bat, like if this is going to be something or it's not. Yeah. I know within three months. Yeah. I can, I can, I can weed out the flags within at least three months. Yeah. So then you guys got engaged and,

Right? We, yes. So what is, cause obviously you probably have people that are like, oh, you just got engaged because you're pregnant. Right. And what, like, what are your thoughts or his thoughts to that? So we talked, this is probably in February. We were in England and we're like, okay, what is a crystal ball plan? What do you, what, what does that look like to you? And he's like engaged in the summer.

pregnant thereafter again with my age yeah I was like if we're gonna try to get pregnant it has to and I don't want a shotgun wedding I don't want to do any of that no so the the Christian piece has been hard because a lot of people were like well if you're a Christian then you should get married before and I'm a bad influence to my daughter and

- And that's the tough. - So I've had to walk that a little bit. Like I even had a little shame walking into church going, are people judging me because they know I'm not married. But I've had some, like Annie Downs and I had a great conversation. One of our campus pastors talked to them about it. So that's been good.

And what was the advice given to you on that? Jesus loves everyone and just a different plan. Yeah. Yeah. And I told my daughter too, cause she goes, when I told my daughter I was pregnant, she's like, but you're not married. And I was like, cause she thinks when you get married, you just have a baby. Yeah. So I was like, Hmm. Yes. I was like, well, I was like, God just blessed us early. So that's awesome. Yeah. But, um, for me it was one of those things where, um,

I had to wrap my mind around the fact that the dream of what I always wanted was to get married, have a baby, have, you know, have the family, the whole thing. I don't, I wouldn't have had that luxury in the time period that we wanted, given that I don't want to be 40 plus per day.

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personally for me yeah given the history of exactly everything that um i've gone through with pregnancies so that was that was actually the hardest piece to swallow because i'm like the only man i've ever actually wanted to walk down the aisle to i can't go in the order that like i dreamt as a little girl so that was tough because i would have loved that so we just

we kind of set a month for starting to try and it happened. Obviously we didn't think it would happen the first month. So it wasn't an engaged because I was pregnant. It was going to be around the same time anyways. Yeah. So we just, we, yeah, we announced the engagement first. Cause that was that a little better for me, but a little better. I was like, I was like, how do we do the, you know, the team call? I'm like, no, I guess here's the problem. I was like, we're engaged, but we're also pregnant. How do we do this? So that's, and that's the thing. It's like,

It's kind of like that saying when you like plan out your life or you have this timeline, like God laughs at you. Oh, do you want to know what I want to do for my 40th birthday? I wanted a private island, like fireworks, dance party, all the besties. Like, I mean, a big old, I have been planning my 40th blowout since I turned 30. Like it has been like my due date is on my 40th birthday.

No, it is not. I laughed out loud in my doctor's office when they told me my due date. I was like, you have got to be kidding me. Like, I was like, are you kidding me? So that's where I always go. God always had the plan. That is hilarious. He's like, I will be in diapers on my 40th. Maybe you can.

Do it like a month later. Well, no, no, no. I'm like a bit like I am the girl that has to have the 40th like on my 40th. So Missy's section is two weeks actually prior. Okay. To my 40th. And we're going to do a murder mystery 40th themed. Stop. That's hilarious. Two weeks post. So I'll be postpartum like. Well, that'll be an interesting birthday. Yeah. I'm pumped though. But it's just, it's beautiful. It's like, you know, those are again, the little winks that I just go, all right, you, you,

you are the planner of it all. So that's amazing. So now wedding, have you guys spoken about like, are you in wedding planning mode or just baby mode? We're in both, but we're going to keep it so small next year. Okay. So, so, so, so, so small. Really? So why do you, did you contemplate big wedding, little wedding?

For me, I just want the people that I would like just immediate like family and then like two of my girlfriends. That's awesome. Where it's just, well, first of all, weddings are really expensive. They are. We just moved into another house. But I just, but I still want the white dress and the walk and the photo with me and the kids and our baby. Like that's just like the image that I just can't keep, I can't get over because the silver lining of marriage.

the last full circle plus years of just all that stuff, like to have that, that image and that, and I want the wedding for my, for my kids. Like Jolie wants this whole castle wedding. So we're, we're meeting in the middle. Oh gosh. In Scotland. So that's amazing. Little kilts for the boys. That's amazing. Yeah. I love that. So what would you say to people that like,

You were in a place where you could have easily written off love. Yeah. Like I'm done. There is no hope for me. I'm just going to have to settle for someone. What revived like that excitement in you? It was until I really, truly loved my, I know it's so cheesy, but I loved myself that I, that I, all the other stuff started to fall into place. And the settling aspect is I've settled before and,

Because I wanted kids because I wanted, I felt like I was getting older and I believe in that there is that perfect person out there for you. Um, you just have to believe it too. And then also, yeah, just the, to love yourself to, you know, and I put things in the next chapter as well, the things that had helped me get to that place. But yeah,

when you can do that and when you can really believe that is when the pieces start to come together and I want that for everybody like I don't want anyone like there's people that are like oh I I'm just never well I'm like okay you can you can have again you can choose that yeah or you can choose differently well and too when you meet the right person you just know it's like that quote that says like someone can make you feel more in two months right someone did and you

10 years yeah I mean I've never gotten I've never felt this kind of love but again it's because I know there's a different there's a different uh level of uh like respect that I know and the love that I know that I deserve so what I'm getting is more than I ever thought I could ever have but I also know that's what I deserve yeah well even just the fact that like he walked in here with you and he's like I'm gonna walk you there I'm like you don't have to you can go to your

Whatever. And like that was the sweetest thing. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. He's a, he's a, he's a true like gentleman. That's amazing. I love you. That makes me so excited for you because especially from, it's not like we've like stayed in contact before.

over the years, like friends, friends, but like watching you too, just from being at the very beginning and like being at the all time low and now being at a place to where it's like, it all makes sense. Well, and same girl too. Like it's, it's been fun to watch your growth, your journey too. And it's, um, you've just blossomed into this beautiful girl.

Young lady. Okay. So when is your book being released? October 24th. October 24th. Yes. The next chapter. I'm so excited for that. And I just hope people know that they're not alone in their struggles and that we all have, we all have to look in the mirror and sometimes, you know, we have to work on ourselves, but also tell ourselves things. And I think that like, that was the biggest thing. Like you didn't sit here and just,

place blame on everyone else, the amount of accountability you took, that's when you know someone's really...

had a lot of growth because we all get to where we get to with two people yeah it doesn't just take one but the fact that you're able to say no I made mistakes I did this I did that and that's what the world needs more of instead of just constantly blame blame blame like let's look at ourselves a little bit a little ownership goes a long way I think for sure and also just I don't want to like I don't want to hate even you know this it's one person I ran into that

Again, it wasn't honest with me, but I, you know, I would have said hello. They just want to just be like, oh, I'm the problem or whatever. But I don't like that energy. So I'm like, okay, that's your choice that you don't want to say hello. But I'm not going to like...

I'd rather be like, hi, how are you? And I mean, like, I just, it's not a fake thing. I just don't like, I don't want any negative. I don't want hate for anybody. It's just too, life's too short to have any of that like animosity or hatred or just the heaviness. I don't want to feel that. Yeah. 100%. And to, like you said, life's too short. So do you really want the last moments with someone?

To be something negative. Exactly. No, I don't. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Your book, the next chapter comes out October 24th. Thanks. I'm so excited. And where can people, will it be everywhere? Yeah, everywhere. And then, um, yeah, wind on podcasts. We have a podcast and then, um, yeah. I'm so excited for you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

Two sisters, one a respected TV producer, Jill Blackstone, and the other, Wendy. She was disabled, nearly blind and deaf, and Jill had devoted herself to taking care of Wendy. Jill was her best friend, her sister, her everything. But the sister bond was shattered when Wendy

And some of the sisters' rescue dogs were found dead in a garage next to a top-lover barbecue grill. Jill says accidental carbon monoxide poisoning killed everyone. Police do not believe her.

Police arrested Jill Blackstone for the murder of her sister. Investigators think it was staged to look like an accident. Who will you believe, especially now that a secret source has come forward with evidence never made public before? Jill was a good producer. There's no doubt about that. But would she produce murder is the question. Season two of Bad, Bad Thing, The Blackstone Sisters, available now wherever you get your podcasts. I always say, show me a perfect family. I'll show you a family with secrets.

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