Burn It To The Ground ft. Lindsay Ell
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back to Unlocked and I'm so excited today because I have Lindsay L on. Welcome. Hey girl. I'm so excited to have you on. We've been trying to get this booked forever. We have been messaging each other for a long time and I'm sorry every time you ask I'm like I'm

But like, when's your next opening? So we finally made it happen. I know. I know. So you've been busy, though. You've been on tour. And how's that been? Amazing. I'm getting to tour with Shania Twain, like my childhood idol ever since I was a little girl. Yeah, that's insane. I mean, who?

Erin who else was it that we just had on that said they're going to Neil oh yeah okay yeah so Shania Twain which is so awesome because Tennille came on and she's touring with her as well yeah yeah Shania is just um she's obviously the goat and she has like split up her tour all year this year and um we got to kick off the Queen of Me tour like back in April and then we have another run coming up at the end of the month and so it's awesome that's so so so excited and I love that

fact that like she's having females on to tour with her me too because we were kind of talking before this just about how difficult it is in this industry especially to for women it's just not something country music is like this drinking beer you know just man's world and when you don't fit that mold specifically the drinking beer driving trucks mold which I don't

It's just kind of difficult sometimes, you know, to be like, well, wait, I was raised on this music. But, you know, people like Shania and artists like Shania are just so inspiring because she...

It's just her. Yeah. She always has been just her. And I remember like when Shania first came on the scene, there were so many like critics and blogs and everybody being like, Shania's got a fruit when country music, it has electric guitar in it. And like all these things, she's wearing a midriff on stage. And it's like, okay, not only does she like change the course of our format, but she like reinvented the definition of country music. And to see a female artist who is not afraid to stand up about,

LGBTQ rights and just stand up for things that she believes in, in a world that is, and specifically in a genre that is not always accepting of some of those ideals. It's, uh, it's so beautiful. It's amazing just to be around her presence and her aura. And she's awesome. That's amazing. I love it. And so music, like you said, it's been a journey. How long has it been? Let's give us like a breakdown of your starting point to now. Gosh. I mean, I started playing, um,

when I was eight, piano when I was six. I started playing shows when I was 10. So I've been doing this ever since I was a little girl. I've been living in Nashville for the past 12 years. And ever since I moved down here, it just kind of felt like a whirlwind. I went, I'm from Canada originally, and I went to LA for six months first to just sort of write. And somebody was like, I think you'd like Nashville. Like you should, you should check Nashville out.

Um, and so I came here and I remember just feeling like so welcomed by the music community here. And, um, you know, the songwriters would be like, come on over to the house and we'll jam and we'll cook you dinner. And I'm like, who are these people? This is wild. This is weird. This is so weird. The Southern hospitality thing. Like I'd never really felt it like that. Yeah. Um, but I just gotten taken in by this town and, um, I signed my, my record deal and a publishing deal like a year later. Wow. And, um,

And then it just has felt like the past decade has been a whirlwind, truly. Like I've gotten to tour around the world and play venues that I've dreamed of playing. And yet I think that, you know, life is so magical how it's cyclical. And I feel like I'm like still just beginning. Well, I feel like what a lot of people don't realize in the music industry and to a lot of other industries is like,

There's a lot of start over. There's a lot of building you up just to rebuild and rebuild and rebuild. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like what I appreciated about my favorite artists is they constantly reinvent themselves, you know, like constantly, like every few years or every album sometimes. Yeah. And so I'm definitely in that process. And sometimes, you know, I was listening to a podcast the other day and it was talking about like...

like a caterpillar in a cocoon, like turning into a butterfly as cheesy as that metaphor sounds. But like, it's the struggle of like getting out of their cocoon that like helps them be resilient to go through the next phase. And I feel like I'm just living that, you know, I'm like getting out of my cocoon right now. And I'm like, goodness gracious, this is like a feat, but I know it makes you stronger. And, um,

God doesn't give you anything in your life that you can't handle. And so I've always said that. Yeah. And it's and that's where you find the most growth, too, is in those really tough moments. And to like other than music, I feel like you're in a journey right now of just being 110 percent authentic and vulnerable. And especially through your social media, because you just posted recently just about your own personal struggles that you've endured. Yeah.

Um, and how was that? How was coming out about that? It was so terrifying. It was, um, you know, I've, I've always been pretty vulnerable on social media ever since I, you know, really got on it. Um, I, I came out as a survivor a couple of years ago and talked about my story as a little girl with that. And most recently I got diagnosed with an eating disorder. Hmm.

And I'm like still in the process of recovery with it. And it was just something that I never really saw coming. And I think as like busy individuals, you sometimes just like go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Well, you're high functioning. Yeah. And you just never really think about it. And you're like, oh, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. And meanwhile, I'm like,

bawling my eyes out on my kitchen floor some nights being like, what is wrong with me? And so it was just really coming to terms with, okay, maybe something's up here and let's jump into that and explore and see what that could be. And so, yeah, I got diagnosed with a version of anorexia and I never saw that coming again.

Yeah. And it's been like a very, very challenging recovery and also so rewarding. And it's kind of weird that like I'm also in this part of my music life

and like my career where I'm also like digging into the depths of my soul and like really answering those tough questions of like, well, what is it? What does it look like? What does it sound like? What is this like new chapter going to be? Yeah. And it is a coincidence and also probably not a coincidence at all that they're like happening at the same time. So a few years back, you said you came out as a survivor. So what was that? Do you think that maybe led to the eating disorder? Like what was that journey? Yeah.

Yeah. I was raped as a little girl. And then again, when I was 21. And I think that, you know, any kind of trauma, whatever we go through in our life, when it is undealt with, it...

definitely can cause things like eating disorders or disease or like the list goes on and on and on depression. Um, and although I've, I've, you know, touched the corners of depression and anxiety, um, I just didn't never really thought that an eating disorder would be something I would have to deal with. And I guess that's the first step of like complete denial in it. Um,

But yeah, I definitely think that childhood trauma leads to a lot of things that we get to unpack later on in our life. Yeah, I've definitely discussed that a lot on how you just...

And when you experience trauma at such a young age, it's kind of just like, all right, that's my life. So then it's like when anything else bad happens, you're like, oh, it's not that bad. It's not that bad because I already experienced this. So if I can get through that, I can get through anything. Yeah. And I remember as a little girl, like feeling...

Because people would like make fun of me of being like the nerd. I was such a nerd. And I like never really like I had a lot of acquaintances and friends in school, but I never like was the cool girl who like went out to parties and stuff. I just sat in my bedroom and played guitar and that's it. And so I was not a cool kid at all.

But it was like this, when that happened, it was like this skeleton I had in the closet. And I remember thinking as a little girl, I'm like, if people only knew, like there's more depth to me than they even know.

And it's like a weird thing to carry around because you carry it around as a kid is like a metal almost. Oh, yeah. Like if I can do this. Yeah. If I can do this, then I've got life. Yeah. Like whatever life throws at me, I'm I'm strong enough to get through it. And and looking back on it now, like as my adult self is looking at my childhood self, it's like, man, you should never be like prideful of trauma because

Because the minute you're doing that, it's almost like you need to keep it an arm length away from you. And you sort of see it as this thing or armor that you wear compared to really diving into it and holding hands with it and being like, okay, we're going to address life together because that is a part of me. It's not something that I wear. And too, when you look at it that way, you automatically have...

Which I guess in a way I'm talking about just like childhood trauma. I experienced you kind of hold it and you're like, okay, well, you don't know what this feels like to everyone else externally. You hold them accountable for something they have no idea because you're just like, oh my God, you're weak. You're this, you're that, because you don't know what it feels like to go through what I went through. Yeah. And it's crazy that it takes until you're an adult to realize like, holy cow, I've been doing this wrong all along. Yeah. And it's, it's crazy. I mean, I had,

two of the most loving parents. And yet when that happened, I didn't tell my parents for like seven, eight years. Like, so even from the outside looking in, you can look at a situation and be like, oh, that's, that looks like a great situation. And you just never know what's going on inside a kid's head. No. And so as a kid, were there moments now that you're an adult that you look back and you're like, how did no one know?

You know what I'm saying? Sometimes, but also growing up in an environment where you're just taught everything's okay. Everything's okay. And to always look like... I remember I started playing in the church with my dad when I was a little girl. And that's kind of how I got started being on stage and everything. And I just remember the fact of going to church, feeling like everything...

Is is good, you know, like walking into that building being like, OK, like we're just going to smile and look like we're cool. Everything's cool, you know, like regardless of what's going on.

outside those doors like we're just gonna walk in and be like this like put together unit and I think like from that mentality growing up with that mentality it's just dangerous because you you tell yourself that your feelings don't matter and you just get so used to putting on this front of everything's all right like that shirt that's like

everything's fine, everything's fine. I'm totally botching this shirt, but whatever. Like I'm fine, everything's whatever. I'm like, I hate that shirt, man, because no, like I'm not fine actually. Most days I'm really not fine and it's okay. And if you keep telling yourself like, things are fine, everything's gonna be cool, whatever.

It's like... It's one thing to have a positive outlook and then it's another thing to be like denying of your feelings. Yes. Because that's the thing. And to Christianity. I talk about this a lot on my podcast because like my grandfather's a Southern Baptist minister. I grew up going to a private Christian school. There's this...

And I'm like fully in my faith and I believe what I believe. But there's also my former pastor came on my podcast last week and it hasn't come out yet. But he spoke about how Christianity created cancel culture. Yeah. And if you're looking at it, there's this biggest, like the biggest thing of Christianity, you will go into a church. It's like,

Not everyone, but there's a big misconception that's like, oh, because you believe in this, everything is perfect. Yeah, I think that like I was raised Catholic and I don't practice Catholicism anymore. I mean, when all that stuff happened when I was 13, it was from someone in my church. And so it just really...

turned me off of church, to be honest. And I was like, this is not a safe place anymore. But there's this thing about Catholicism, like growing up, that it was very much so like, as long as you say the prayers and as long as you are present, then you are a good person. And I'm like, I don't believe that. Yeah. I don't believe that. Like if you get something from a building and from reading the Bible and from saying prayers, then great. Then also be a good person. Mm-hmm.

But just because you do those things, it's not like you get a pass. And there was this thing in the Catholic church that was like, if you show up, you get like that attendance check. You're like, you're good to go. And I'm like, I don't agree. I don't agree. Yeah. And too, when you experience, it has to be so difficult experiencing hurt and trauma and abuse in the same place you were taught. Yeah.

is a safe place and a good place. Yeah. And if anything, it just made me, I guess, internalize that like everything looks fine on the outside, but it's just chaos in the inside. And so it just, it made me like not trust institutions and not really trust people from a really early age. Cause I just remember being so mortified and being like, I mean, just because they look like they're safe does not mean they are.

And so as an adult, has that been really difficult for you to try to kind of debunk that theory and trust, you know, because there has to be a point in time because I'm going through this myself. It's like everyone. I'm like, you can't be trusted. You have an ulterior motive. I'm not going to trust you until you show me that you can be trusted. And like I put up traps for people. It's weird because therapy is like God bless therapy. Yes.

what would I be without I say I always have like a fleet of therapists I have like five different ones depending on like what I'm going through and an eating disorder one and this one um but when I started going to therapy was when I really started like sitting in forgiveness for like everything that happened when I was younger and and these things that like we can't change we can't change what's happened in our past and you don't have to become what

Yeah. And so forgiveness has like, and gratitude have really, really helped me with the trust aspect. And almost now I like,

I so wear my heart on my sleeve and I like will trust people to the core. Yeah. Like I've been very grateful to be surrounded by, you know, a lot of amazing friends and, and a lot of amazing like past boyfriends and like my current boyfriend is incredible. And so I'm so grateful for that, but there definitely, as we all meet people in life who just like take advantage of that. And I am the gullible, you know,

blonde white

even though I just got my American citizenship. That is amazing, too. I saw that photo and it was like, holy cow. Dude, I mean, 12 years of work to finally get that. But I still feel that gullible part of myself who's just wanting to trust and believe that people are good. There's goodness in all of us. And sometimes people take advantage of that. Oh, they do. They do. And it's so disheartening because sometimes

takes you when you do trust someone and they violate that trust again it takes you back to that place like see I shouldn't have done this I shouldn't have right and what is the biggest thing you've learned about that god bless um the biggest thing I've learned about that is you can't control what people are gonna do you can't control anybody else but yourself yeah and so every morning if you can wake up and be like I'm gonna make the best decisions that I can for me and I'm gonna I'm

like go out and and spread like love to the people that I love in my life and try to do a good job and try to show up fully yeah like that is literally the most that you can do and there's a lot of you know negative people sometimes around us and negative things that happen to us and if anything if I've learned anything from it it's like when you even catch a whim of like

something's a little fishy here. It's just a sign to you that like maybe that person shouldn't be in your life.

And the times when I've like let it go on a little bit too long. Yeah. That's when like, you know, the little spark turns into a wildfire and you're like, okay, I should have seen this six months ago. Yeah. Listen to your gut. Yeah. Your gut is like so, so smart. And sometimes we're like either way too busy or we're way too trusting to let it, let things just go on too long. And sometimes it's easier to let it go on than to stop it.

For sure. It's so hard. Like either breaking up a relationship or breaking up a friendship or like continuing not to work with somebody, whatever the reason may be. It is so hard to stop those relationships. But I just think...

Number one, you need to take care of yourself first and foremost. And number two, you're taking care of the other person. Cause if it's like not working out for whatever reason, it's not going to work out for them for whatever reason. Exactly. And so really, you know, you're looking out for each other. That's, that is so true. And so now, like you said, you were talking about relationships. So your boyfriend now you're like is amazing. How has the relationship journey gone? Because it is hard in what you do being on the road and,

What would you say? Have you been like close to marriage? Have you been close? Great question. I mean, I definitely want to get married. I want to get married so much. Um, when that time feels right, but I've never been close to marriage. And I think it's like this independent part of myself. That's always like, um, I know what I want to do. I have so many goals and I'm just going to go after them. And, um,

I believe that like the universe will like eventually have the right person fall into my path and, and then it will just feel right. Um, and so I've never really worried about the marriage thing, but, um, I wrote a song last year called right on time. I have felt a lot of pressure about like,

I love. Didn't you just release that? Or did you tease it on your social media? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's where I heard it. Yeah. Yeah. And I just remember like shortly after I turned 30, like all my friends were getting married, having babies, doing all the life box checks. Yeah. And I was like, I am not close to any of those things. Yeah. Like, did I just...

miss the memo on how you're supposed to do this or am are these things just never going to happen for me and um I do think that we're all like writing our story in our own time and it's unfolding how it all should and yeah you know my life isn't supposed to look like yours or your life is not supposed to look like mine and so our timelines are going to be different because of that and it's

so hard because in the South too, you experience this like, all right, you should be married. You should have kids. You should. And I say, and I don't know if it's because like I say, the thoughts of marriage scares me more than kids. Why? I don't know if it's maybe, then this is going to sound so bad, but I think maybe because kids like you're in control of.

You know, so like if I were to have a kid, like it's my responsibility to take care of them and I make sure they get from point A to point B, all these things. But with marriage, it's kind of like you're giving over a part of yourself to someone so they have the ability to hurt you. I don't know if it's it's a weird thing. I'm still trying to figure out in my mind. That's that's an interesting way of looking at it. Yeah. I mean, I just feel that if you choose the right person. Yeah. It.

It should never feel like that. Not saying that love isn't hard. And, you know, I've never been married and not saying that marriage isn't hard. But but if you choose the right person, it's like a partnership. And you have to choose someone that you can grow with. One of my best friends, Blaine, told me when I got engaged and she was like, Savannah, you're going to be a completely different person.

25, then you are at 20, 25 and 30. Like you have to make sure this person is someone that you can grow with and you're going to grow together. Yeah. And it always stuck with me because people think like I've read a quote and it was like, you're going to be married to a thousand different versions of that person.

And you have to be okay with it. You have to be okay with it. And you can never be with someone assuming that they're going to turn into this person. You have to be with somebody assuming that they will be exactly as they are today for the rest of your life. And are you okay with all of those things? Yeah. Cause it's, I'm guilty. I'm so guilty of like getting into a relationship with someone and you're like, okay, well it's going to get better. They're going to get better. Yeah, exactly. And yeah,

They do not. They do not in the way that you are expecting because you are not in charge of their life. They are in charge of their life. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I don't know. I still look at marriage as this beautiful thing. I mean, I'm such a hopeless romantic person.

despite all of like the weirdness that has happened in my life. I don't know how I'm still a hopeless romantic, but I just, I love this idea of, of being able to like, yeah, truly have a partner and being that like couple that like stills holds hands when they're like 70 years old and stuff like that. So, so yeah, I fantasize about that stuff sometimes. And I also know that like my life has just taken on so many different courses than I thought it was going to. Like,

I don't like these things as a woman having a biological clock. I'm like, I don't know. I have so much I want to do before I even can talk about kids. Yeah. You know, and and that's scary because it's like there's only a certain amount of time that I have before I need to make that decision. One hundred percent. And so it's just like this underlying pressure. And at the same point, it's just like.

You just take it one day at a time and, you know, maybe I don't know what's best for me. Oh, I love that. And that is so true. It's like, and I have friends.

have friends who have gotten pregnant and they'd be like, we're not ready for it. But it's also, are you ever truly ready? I don't think so. You know, it's just like, it's one of those things like you do and you learn as you go and you're never truly ready. Yeah. And then I have some friends who've decided to not have kids or have tried so long and have not been able to have kids and, and I would adopt in a heartbeat. And, um,

And so there are just like so many different ways you can skin this cat. Yeah. Well, and too, I have so much, because I have had friends who have said, you know, I don't want kids. And I remember at a younger age, I was like, oh my God, how could you not want kids? But as an adult, I'm like, okay, I have so much respect for people who can say, you know what?

Love kids, but don't want them. Right. Because it takes like it takes a lot to raise a child. It takes a lot of love, a lot of different qualities. So for someone to say, you know what? They're cute, but not for me. I'm like, that takes courage. And there's so much respect for people like that.

Yeah. And like, I don't know. I'm such a like health nut and sometimes get like a little too woo woo for anybody. But but like there's these things about like ancestral like wounds and patterns. And sometimes I get like so into my head that I'm like, maybe I'm just not supposed to have kids like I don't.

I don't know. Is that like a good thing to pass on or not? So I don't know. I'm just like, this is a decision that I can make today. And I'm, I'm good with that part of the decision. But that's what I love also too, about like the time that we're living in is, is it's being, it's

becoming more normal yeah to just be like hey do what works for you right like there's not this time clock there's not I don't have to do what everyone else is wanting me to do I can step into a male dominated world I can do all of these things and it's okay it's okay that it's different from what you did like my grandmother she's 70 almost I think she's 78 yeah she's 78 years old but

She's from the South. She's from South Carolina. She's like, okay, you need to be married. You need to have kids. You need to. And I'm like, from back in the day to where you already had two, three kids by the time you were my age, like it's okay that I'm not doing it that way. Yeah.

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I still don't know if I believe in like past lives, but I also am like life and creation is just too incredible to think that just like this one lifespan is it. Yeah. And so I'm like, what else is it? I don't know. But, um, but I'm more like when I think of, um,

Past lives or whatever, or the emotional trauma that can be passed on within generations. Yeah. I do think that that stuff is real. You know, when you see kids being born, even in like our generation now, with a lot of baggage and emotional trauma, and they're like tiny little kids, it's like...

that stuff not be coming from other places? Genetics are amazing and science is so amazing. And I also think that our emotional wounds get passed on generation to generation to generation. And when I see like, even my mom had depression and when I see like the emotional states that I was born with as a child, I'm like, how can that stuff not be passed on? So

What was I like in a past life? No idea. But I know that, that either like from a past life or from, you know, what my parents and what my grandparents want, my great grandparents and what that was like. Yeah. Tossed down to you. I, I, I think that stuff is, is real. I see. I do too, because, and to especially the older I get or in the midst of really tough moments, I'll see things and I'm like,

Whoa. Like, or I'll meet, like, just recently, like, meeting people and there's so much. I'm like, okay, whoa, this is a lot like my dad. Like, it's just weird. Like, just qualities you find in people. And then it's like, I'll meet someone and I'm like, okay, are you a real person? Because this feels like...

An out of body experience. Right. Like, yes, this is what I'm talking about. You, I think life is like constantly like you getting to know yourself deeper and you getting to know yourself more and you have these like deja vu moments sometimes where you're like, I know this, but I don't know this, but I know this somehow. And so like,

I think that that is the uncovering and life is just this like constant, like peeling of the onion to like deeper layers to deeper layers. And, um, and I think it stems from that, you know, like it's all in here and it's all in here. And we're slowly just going through the experience of life to, to uncover what like is inside of us, what we know. Yes. Because, and too, it's,

Like I said, you live in a time to where it's not always okay to believe what you believe. And there has to become a point in time to where you shut everyone else out. And you're just like, okay, this is who I am. This is what I believe. Doesn't mean everyone has to like it. I'm a firm believer. And like, I don't have to believe what you believe in. Totally. But.

I also have to respect you and I have to love you despite not believing what you believe and that's just I believe humanity as a whole I'm like it's about loving each other no matter what and that's the mark

we're not quite getting right now in the world we live in. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. I know. If, if only everyone could like stem it down to those like simple qualities and be like, it's not about our titles. It's not about our identifications. It's not about whatever. It's about loving each other as humans. Yeah. And that's, I will say I've realized throughout my whole journey of just even everything going on with my family, it's always something.

people love you for what you can do for them. They love you for just a different agenda. Not saying always, but unfortunately that's the world we live in. It's like, who can I associate with that's going to get me here or there or, or what can they do for me in the moment? And then when they can't do what you thought they could do, all right, we're throwing them away. And it's such a disposable world that we live in, which is so sad. And it's like, even with

Chloe and Grayson, my two siblings, I'm like, it's amazing how they view life because it's so just like they don't look at people like, OK, well, color of your skin or what? They don't look at any of that. They're just like, I love you. You know, and I'm like, that's what is so amazing about kids.

It's just the innocence and just it's amazing. Yeah, that is that's so beautiful. If only we could remember those simple like a way of living. Yeah. But then it's also then I take a step back. I'm like, OK, well, people believe in what they believe in for a reason. You know, so it's just like you were talking about the church and kind of how this.

that definitely changed your viewpoint. It's we all don't none of not saying none of us, but I feel like we live in a world where we don't take a second to step back and say, okay, even though I don't agree and what this like agree with what this person agrees with, what got them to this point? Totally. Everybody has a story and a history. And if you can really understand what

why they are the way they are. Yeah. I think it like brings us closer together. It does because it's like, I don't, there are friends, like I've got friends, we believe completely different things. But it's, you have so much love and respect because,

I understand why they believe what they believe. And once you hear their life stories. I know. And if anything, their different perspective lets me see another way of looking at it. And I get like so much insight and I learn things from, you know, like you said, my friends who just have, have,

different beliefs and different ways of going about it. And I'm like, oh, I didn't think about that. And you can have these beautiful conversations in a way of coming together and of showing each other the different sides. - Well, and that's what, when I started this podcast, that's what I had stated was, and it's so hard because the culture we live in, it's like, I'm gonna cancel you in a heartbeat.

And I'm like, hey, and now I'm so far into it that I'm going to start kind of easing different people into it. But it's.

okay I have a Republican on my podcast okay I have a Democrat on my podcast okay like I have all these different people doesn't mean I agree with everything but it gives you a different viewpoint and yeah we should live in a world where you could sit down and have a conversation where you completely disagree with each other but you do it respectfully and you have understanding as well and I've been so afraid to get into that because it's like okay this is my livelihood but at the

But at the same time, that's what we need. We need tough conversations that lead to growth, even if it's different viewpoints. Absolutely. I think that is what makes us human. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. So going back to your social media and how vulnerable you've been, how would you say that has helped you in your healing process or has it hurt you? You know, social media is so beautiful in so many ways. I think that, um,

it, it lets us like speak to everybody on the planet. If you know, if you want to and share your views and, and as a musician, get music sent out there and, and you know, you can record, you can write and record and release a song in like a day if you really want it to. And so technology and social media is amazing. And even just the connections that I've had with fans, like when I came out with my story initially and the,

thousands of survivors that sent me DMS of like, thank you for sharing your story. Cause you've inspired me to share my story. You've inspired me to go get help. And so that, that part of social media is like so incredible. It's, it's amazing. And it's like life giving to me and why I want to continue to be as vulnerable as I can on it. Um, there are definitely challenging sides of social media that I think we all know about, you know, um, specifically from, um,

an eating disorder standpoint, like my body image, my image around body image is still so messed up. So messed up. And social media, honestly, is probably the worst thing for that. Cause you just, or I should talk just about myself, but like I compare myself to everybody and being a musician on stage and pictures get taken from like all different angles. And when I'm like playing a guitar solo and like bent over my guitar and like double chin and like laying on the stage or whatever,

I like stand in the most unflattering angles and then people take pictures and post them. And then I look at myself and hate my body. And so there are challenging aspects of social media. But I think the reason why I decided to share my story is one, I've always decided to just be as transparent as I can with my fans. And two, it keeps me accountable in this weird way. That's what I was going to say is it holds you back.

I have said before, I am, I will say things on social media or post things that I don't necessarily feel right now, but I hope to feel. So by me posting it as a way to like hold myself accountable of this is where you have to get to. Yeah. It's a weird mind game. It is this weird mind game, but it's like this binding promise, at least that I've made to myself of like,

This is where I'm at and this is where I'm going. And if I like take all of the armor off and people just see me as me, then all of a sudden there's like nothing to hide. And I can almost begin to trust the process of that, of like, yeah,

that vulnerability and that vulnerability is okay. And it's scary because there are for sure people who are going to stomp on you. But again, that's part of life. You can't get the love without the hate. Like they, they come at the same time. Um, I've been, uh, reading this, this poet recently, her name's Andrea Gibson. And she, um, she was saying like the,

the lifeline of pain and of life and of love are like the same. Like you can't have one without the other. And so I've just been leaning in, you know, and like trying to learn how to be myself, which is so hard. And too, I think whenever you become truly authentic on social media, especially in the world, because...

I say as an influencer, as an artist, whatever it may be, when you have a large social media following, you do, you make money off of it. You, there's all these different areas to social media, but when you start being yourself, it's insane how much more successful you

those sources of revenue are. It's crazy to even, I even just realized like, it's not all about posting the perfection. Sure, some people make a hell of a living off of it. But when you start posting the good, the bad, all of it, you become more human.

Yeah. And I think that there's an element of social media where you just get so tied to numbers and, well, this post didn't do as well as this post. And then I need to do more posts like this because they're going to perform better. And it's like, and I have been so guilty of that. And even, you know, my career in the past few years, like I've been so guilty of

well, is this song going to be better to get me on country radio? And what do I need to do to get a number one? And what, and when you start having those kinds of conversations, you take it away from like the authenticity of like who you are at. And so it's terrifying to, at least in my own place as a songwriter right now, make music from the point of just like, this is exactly what I'm feeling. And this is a story I want to share with the world compared to, this is a song that I think is going to go number one on country radio. Yeah.

That's amazing. And too, I think for me, it's like I look at social media and I'll post stuff and to see, like you said, the positive feedback from people and the messages that are just like, you changed my life. You did this. You did that. It's like that makes every hateful comment that I've gotten worth it. Totally. Because I like I just went I think it was Saturday night. I just went on Fox News and I did a segment on, you know, they were talking about just

prison conditions and reform and things of that nature. And there were things they said that I outwardly said I agree with and things that I outwardly said I did not agree with. And to hear and I was so afraid of doing it because I was like, oh, God, again, we live in cancel, cancel, cancel. But I could no longer like hold myself down and my beliefs down that I knew would make a difference. And the amount of

and messages I got after that was like, thank you so much for finally speaking out. Like for all of us,

who can't or for like our viewpoint that no one else has spoken about it was like I was like okay that's what makes it worth it totally that's what makes it worth it support for today's episode comes from honey love the reviews are in honey love came out on top for best wedding day shapewear with wedding season upon us this is the ad you've all been waiting for whether you're a

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Slash unlocked. So throughout all the negative things you do, there are positives that come from it. For sure. And it may not feel it in the moment, but it 110%, like you see it later on, which is funny. Yeah. And, and those, those are like the parts of it that are real. Yeah. Like everything else is just trying to chase a, a number tree or a money tree or whatever. And, um,

And I think like those reasons over here is the point of it all. Yeah. And so what advice would you give to people who maybe were in your shoes a few months back, a few years back that you, when you hadn't come out about all of the trauma that you had endured and the world, like you said, like in your industry too, it's like, all right, I can't talk about these things. It's not okay. It's not, how did you find the strength?

I'll say two things. I mean, listen to your gut. Like your gut is so smart and you know the best timing. For instance, like when to come forward with something. Like you can have a lot of people tell you different things, but you know the best time on when to do that. And everybody else's process and journey and timeline is different.

And the second thing is there's so much power in sharing your story. There's so much power in sharing your story. Again, like you'll know the right time to do that. But I think it is the one thing that connects us as human beings on this planet when we can realize that we're all putting pants on one leg at a time and trying to figure out this thing called life and trying to deal with like,

the hard aspects of living, like living's hard, man. And we all have our different pressures of like, you know, hard and easy and pain and trauma and whatever, but like trauma to you is trauma to you. And, and that's valid. And when you can get to the place of, of, you know, courage and strength to voice that and share it, whether it's,

you know, to one friend or to 2 million people or whatever. Like it is, it's so empowering. It is. And it's contagious. And so how have you dealt with the shame aspect of it? Because I know I, there's a saying I go by and it's like shame or jealousy or really any negative feeling is the thief of all joy. Yeah. And in what you're, there's so much shame associated with trauma that really, you know,

you shouldn't hold as the person who was done wrong. But for some reason we always do. Yeah. If anything, like, was that something you felt? Did you have that shame aspect with your trauma? I think we all have shame. I think we all have shame every day of our life. It's a part of,

of this process. You know, without shame, we don't have the same realizations. If anything, how I treat shame differently is instead of ignoring it and instead of running away from it, I like try to listen to it. And it's painful, man. Especially when

I'm like not doing things like I previously have, like an eating disorder where I have these coping mechanisms of how to restrict and whether, you know, your vices drinking or drugs or eating or not eating or whatever. Like we all have our vices. Like you can choose what is your vice. Um, but yeah,

When you don't when you start to realize those vices and don't lean into them in the same way and can't numb out from them in the same way. Feelings get harder and pain hurts more and shame hurts more. But it also is like it makes the light shine brighter. And if you can like really sit in that shame and and listen to it, I think I don't know, you get brought closer to the light. Yeah.

That is amazing. I absolutely love. That's the thing. It's like, there's so much goodness to come from her. Yeah. Which is hard to admit and it takes a while, but there is so much goodness that comes from it because now the voice that you can be to other people, it's just. If we all lived monotone lives and everything just happened perfectly and we lived in Pleasantville or whatever that place is called. Um, I don't even watch enough movies, but I think it was called Pleasantville. Um,

Like life would be so boring and all of us would just do the same thing. And, you know, there would be no character and there would be no love and there would be no like...

I don't know, just, I don't think life would have a point. Yeah. And so what is next for you, I think on this new journey of yourself, because like I said, I feel like now you're transitioning into not a new you, but maybe like the you, you were always meant to be. Yeah, I definitely feel that. And it's so scary. I feel like I've taken, um,

a wrecking ball and like ruined all the structure in my life in the past year. Okay. And, um, and then I get to rebuild it the way I've always wanted to build it. And it's so terrifying and like stresses out my business managers more than I probably want to stress out. But like, there's this like fire inside of me that like wants to be heard and wants to like be seen in the way that I've never been seen before. And, and, um,

it just makes me emotional thinking about it like i think that is the point you know and if you don't if you don't follow like those artistic like pulls wherever you know art wants to pull you in life then um then i think you miss the the brilliance of it that is amazing i and it takes a lot of courage to do that

Yeah, I think it does. But we all, we all can find courage. You know, we all can find it. It's within us. That's amazing because I feel like I just know listening to you, I'm thinking in my life and I'm like, okay, there are things that like, maybe I haven't had enough courage to do yet. And to hear you say like, okay, it's difficult. Look at all these things I've overcome. Yeah.

But you can still do it. You can find it. Yeah. Is a game changer. And I'm just such a dreamer. And I like believe in these things. And if you constantly live within the confines of comfort zones and just the way you've always done things or the easy normal that you know. Yeah. You're never going to break out into bigger dreams and bigger things. And I just...

I like to dream big, you know? Hey, there's... I love to have a dream that people look at and they're like, you know that's probably not going to happen, right? I know. You know, like that's the best feeling, honestly. Yeah, I had a family member once when I was really, really little. Not my immediate family, but like extended family before I moved down to Nashville and was like, we'll just...

we'll just wait till Lindsay gets it out of her system. You know, we'll let her go do this for a few years and let her get out of the system. And I'm like, I'll show you what's getting it out of my system, man. Like, let me show you. I have a lot to do. Okay. 12 years later still. Yeah. Just watch what I'll do in the next 10 years. I mean, you know, life is incredible when you, when you really get to like,

mold the clay with your own hands. That's amazing. So new music you're working on. I am. And I'm so excited and so terrified. I mean, I'm truly like stepping in new directions and it's like so fulfilling. And also it's like a

a complete new plateau. So I'm, I'm like hoping my fans want to follow in the journey and, and, and yet I think that, you know, like we've been talking about when you like really honor that voice inside of you, that's when things actually start to click into gear because all of a sudden it doesn't feel like you're, you're trying to be this facade, but you're, you're really like speaking your heart. So what would you say your new music represents? I think it represents, um,

wanting to make the world a better place through art and wanting to inspire people through art. Like I always have said, it's my favorite thing in the world to play live because I can walk on stage and maybe make all the people in the venue leave a little bit happier than how they came. Or maybe like make them feel more connected to who they are as human beings. And if I've done that, then I know like I'm doing my job right.

And it's been a good reflection these past few years because I'm like, I need to be doing that in my own music for myself first. Yes. And then it starts to like emit out of it. And so, yeah, sonically, my music is feeling like the most me I ever have. I love that. It's like, yeah, it's like leaning in new directions. And and I'm excited about it. I love that. That makes me so excited for you. Awesome.

Oh, and like even the smile on your face, like the happiness that you show right now, like you can tell it's so authentic. Yeah. I think that, you know, somebody always told me when you're nervous about something, it means that it matters. And, um, and I'm so nervous and so excited at the same point. And so I, I,

I just feel like that's when, you know, you know, you're in the right spot. I love that. Well, thank you so much for just sharing your story. And thanks, girl. You've left. I can probably speak for everyone. You're leaving everyone feeling better than when they came today. Well, thank you so much. I'm so glad we finally got to do this. And I'm just so inspired watching you do what you do and like having a platform and just spreading joy. And thank you. It's a good thing. Thank you.

See?

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