Ep 58: Listener Q & A with Dirk and Jason
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This person is known for a lot of things. Of course, he's known for his elk calling prowess. But I can guarantee you, he is the only person in history to kill a bull elk wearing a Hulk Hogan costume. This was in 2019. So you'll have to scroll back a few years through all the videos and find this video. But I have none other than the amazing...

Jason Glenn Phelps, as you Instagrammers might know. Welcome to the show, Jason. Thanks for that intro. I really appreciate being here. I think you should have had that approved before you laid it out there. No, I like to make you uncomfortable. I know, and I needed to edit that out. That's the best part. That was good. That was good. Yeah, yeah. And hey, this is kind of a side note. This is off topic today, but Jason has an Instagram account.

You may not know this. If you follow the Phelps Game Calls Instagram page, Jason, in the last few months, has started his own Instagram page. He puts a lot of half-naked selfies on there. He shows progress from working out and dieting and bikini shots. No, just kidding. No, but...

I have way more followers than Jason. Way more. And I'd like to keep it that way. So what you're saying is do not follow. Do not follow me. Do not follow Jason. So it's Jason Glenn Phelps. Look it up on Instagram. We've got to get him some followers. And while you follow him, give me a follow too. It's The Bugler, Dirk Durham, The Bugler, just The Bugler, one word. Give me a follow if you like our content. And give Jason a follow too. Yeah.

He's in a bad way. He needs that traction. You know what my full name, Jason Glenn-Felps, like that's what my mom would yell at me as I was getting like chased around the house with a wooden spoon. That's the memory my full name brings back. That's great. Yeah. Well, I think I've yelled it a couple of times. We've been deer hunting. When you really need to get my attention. Jason Glenn-Felps. There's an elk over here. No, no, no. There's a deer over here. I think I yelled that at you today, but.

Anyway, today, and I'm going to have to apologize to our listeners. I gave you guys this super secret number to call in to ask a question so we can answer it online here or on the podcast. And-

The problem, here's the biggest problem. So when I did that, I recorded a whole bunch of podcasts because I've been gone for the whole month of September, the month of October, and here we are in November, I'm still hunting. And Jason, he's been doing a lot of the same. So a lot of the podcast episodes you've been enjoying haven't been real time. So I was unable to

get your question answered online in a timely fashion, which kind of sucks because there's some folks that had some hunting intended for this fall, but I think it's still relevant for the show. And I think, you know, we're not leading into elk season. I mean, elk season, September is kind of a distant memory and we want to kind of touch base, refresh, think about those kinds of things because

Phelps and I have been talking about 2024 already. We're making plans for elk season and we want to make sure that we have everything dialed in. And so I think this is a great time to kind of answer some of those questions that way for folks who are planning ahead for next year, they can kind of think about it, listen to what we say, digest it, agree, disagree, kind of formulate their own system and kind of move forward for elk season in 2024. So anyway,

Phelps, do you have anything to say before we get started on this? No, I'm like ready to start answering questions. I know Jason always says this on his podcast. When he's the host, he always says, Hey, guys, if you have any questions, email us at ctd at...

Why? CTD at phelpsgamecalls.com. Right. But you were just trying to talk in my voice, and I felt like you had to make me sound like a nerd. What? No, I was... No. You're like, I hear what he always says. And then you talked in a funny voice that made me sound like a nerd. I'm sorry. No. I like to mimic people's voices. Yeah, we have an email set up at CTDCuff.

Cutting the distance, ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. You can send us emails there or messages on social, and we'll do our best to kind of grab those messages

All those questions and kind of compile them and try to have our guests answer them. Right. And if you want me to answer them, don't send them to that because I never see those questions. I do. I pass them on. I get them answered. Every now and then. He's like, I don't know what to tell these people. Dirk, can you tell them? Yeah. No, just kidding. They're like, Jason, I don't want you to answer. I want Dirk to answer. And so then I got to pass them on to him. All right. So...

Question number one. I'm going to turn this up and let's see if we can get this answered. Hey, Derek. My name is Garrett Harmon. I'm calling from Beaufort, South Carolina. My question is how you would go about hunting a once-in-a-lifetime tag.

I drew one of arguably the best second season archery elk tags in New Mexico this year. And I was wondering, I'm feeling a lot of pressure and putting a lot of pressure on myself. And I'm just wondering how you go about tackling a tag like this. Any advice would be great. Thank you for everything you do. Bye.

Well, first off, I want to apologize because we should have answered this in real time because he's got a tag of a lifetime in New Mexico. I'm sorry. But we do have some advice. I'm going to let Jason go first. Yeah. So...

We struggle. We've got some good tags, right? And it's a blessing and a curse. It's awesome that you got the opportunity. But just like you, I feel extreme pressure when I draw these tags, whether it's a great archery tag, great rifle tag. And one thing I have to like, it's very important for me leading into the hunt is just to remember that I love to hunt and why I'm out there hunting. It might seem a little cliche to go back and kind of boil it down to that, but

When you got good tags, there's, I think everybody feels a little more pressure. You have to perform. It's your, it may be your opportunity for that, you know, trophy of a lifetime or the animal that you're after, or maybe, you know, somebody hasn't experienced success and they're looking at this once in a lifetime tag is just their first stepping stone, you know, in successes. So, so first of all, like, I feel it's important to go back and boil it down to why you're out there and, you

kind of from that point, remember that you're out there to have fun. Like this isn't a once in a lifetime potentially, or, or one of those like upper, upper tiered hunts. And, and you just need to remember to have a lot of fun. Um,

you know, going into that. Um, now that's, that's more of a mindset. Now there are things you can do on the technical, tactical, physical, mental side, right? Um, I feel like I go into my, uh, my better tags a little more focused, a little more like ready. Um, whether I've trained a little bit harder, it gives me motivation. Um, you know, I, I kind of always hate motivation when it, because it is triggered by things, you know, if you're disciplined enough, you'll,

but I go into those things a little better shape. I've did a little more e-scouting going into those. I've called the biologists a little bit more than normal. I've talked to outfitters in the area. But it really, hopefully when you run into a tag like this, you've had the ability to have some hunting under your belt. And I'm going to go a little bit astray. This is why I'm a big...

you know, proponent of, of getting a lot of experience, right? Go out there and enjoy spike tags, go out there and enjoy these other tags, get experience calling Elkin, whatever it may be. So that when this once in a lifetime opportunity finally comes, it's not your first experience with a bull at 20 yards, 30 yards, um,

you need to be prepared, which is not a great answer because you've already drawn the tag and your chance to figure that out may not be there. But for everybody else, before you draw this once-in-a-lifetime tag, get out there, experience, you know, culling an elk, experience, you know, having elk at very close range, experience those emotions, you know, those mental breakdowns, whatever may come, and figure out how to push through that, figure out the mechanisms you need to have to push through that, and then, you know, kind of get through it. But there's not...

Aside from maybe being a little more prepared, I still put more stress on myself on these better tags. You just need to go out and enjoy it. And hopefully that experience kind of plays itself out because you do have a good tag. And don't put too much pressure on yourself because it will take the fun out of the hunt. I've been on both sides and that's the best advice I can give.

Man, I really love that. A really good friend of mine here drew probably arguably the best elk tag in Idaho in 2022. And he's my age. He's 48 years old while I'm 49. So really old. Ancient. So he's a little bit younger than me. But we talked about it. And he said, you know, he's like, I'm so glad that I drew this tag myself.

In my late 40s. He's like, because if I had drawn that in my 20s and my 30s, he's like, I would have worked hard.

I would have hunted like it was a job. Like I would have, I would probably would have, it wouldn't have been fun. And I would have put way too much stress on myself. And he's like, honestly, I'm my only goal for this tag. He's like, I don't have a goal of inches. I have a goal of having the hunt of a lifetime. Just the best time. Enjoy, savor every moment, the ups, the downs, all of it. I just want to enjoy that hunt and remember the rest of my life. Yep. Yep.

Yeah. And that's, yeah. You know, in the question, he talks about like the stress and it's just, if you boil it down, like that's not, that shouldn't be part of the hunt. Like,

stress and not to not I'm not a psychologist or anything but like stress from what like we this is like self-imposed reasons right like are you are we concerned that people are I'm gonna throw myself in here because I'm in the same boat like are we concerned people are going to judge us that we weren't successful with a great tag like the heck with all of that like just go have fun hunt make it a hunt of a lifetime like you just said and and like put all the other stuff aside

um, just, just go enjoy the experience. Enjoy being in a great unit, which typically being in a great unit, you're going to hear more bugles. You're going to have more action. It's like, take all that in and throw away the extra stress. And because it comes from a bad place anyways, I feel like it's, it's you wanting to, to, you know, find success or you not wanting to, to maybe let people down and know you have the tag, whatever it may be like, all that is just

you know, it's not worth it. Just go have fun, enjoy it. And you're going to have a better experience and, you know, probably have better success by, by going into it with that mindset. Yeah, absolutely. And one, the, my, my thoughts on the subject to kind of a little different note is I feel like sometimes people hear, I mean, I think I found myself guilty of this before, like, oh, they drew this tag. Oh, well, it's going to be easy.

It's, it's, it's not going to be as hard as public land hunting. I think sometimes these draw tags, especially really good ones are, they're harder. They're like harder than a normal over the counter public land hunt. These, because I mean, there's, there's definitely going to be a more target rich environment. There's going to be a lot, way more game. There's going to be more, way more animals to play with, but you can't like, like let your guard down and think, oh, well, I don't have to try as hard.

I can just show up and kind of half-ass it and get an elk. I feel like you have to show up and work just as hard as you would on normal over-the-counter tag, if not harder, and just maximize that time. So this is back like, don't stress yourself out with this, but you have to like, you know what? We're not going to sleep in. We're not going to spend our middays in camp eating ribeyes. We're going to work really hard. We're going to get up at 3am.

3 a.m. if that's what we need to do. We're going to hunt all day from dark to dark, and we're going to leave nothing on the table. That way, when we're done, whether we take an elk or a deer, whatever it is you're after, whatever you take at the end, you can say, I left nothing on the table. I gave everything I had for that time I was having, and it was the hunt of a lifetime. Yep. Great.

Question number two. - Hello, my name is Hattie Zobot. I'm a new archery hunter and I have not spent a lot of time getting set up for a shot of 40 yards or less.

When you are looking for a spot, what are you looking for in the brush or, sorry, woods? How do you determine what a good location is? And what is your strategy for getting set up for the best shot you can once you've located an elk and that elk is coming in on you? Thanks so much. Bye.

Okay, so she doesn't have a lot of experience at setting up or animals being inside of 40 yards. And how do we determine where we're going to set up if that bull's coming in or we expect the bull to come in? Did I get that right? Yeah, I think so. Okay, so there's...

I'm going to answer this in a couple different ways. There's what you're given on the ground. A lot of times we find ourselves in less than ideal setups. You just can't make an ideal setup on the ground. You may be in a brush hole. You may be in a wide open timber stand where there is no terrain break, no vegetation break. And you're just kind of forced to set up where you need to set up, whether it's get the wind right, try to be, for me personally, on the level or slightly downhill from the bowl if I can.

Um, those things all kind of are just rules of thumb, but I say this cause it's easy to say it while you're talking, but the real situation out in the woods is you set up where you can, where, you know, when you can, where you can, um, you've got time running against you. Um, you've got a bull coming in or potentially coming in, or sometimes you may have time to set up with a little bit better setup. Um,

You've got to make the best... There were times this year where I said it, where I'm like, it's not ideal, but I have a 20-yard window here. It's like that's all that's going to work, but I couldn't foresee anything better. I couldn't move forward. You've got to make the best with what you're given. Now, an ideal setup, if you have the ability...

anybody that's hunted archery, a hundred elk long enough has dealt with hangups. Um, I think dirt can attest this. I can like every year you're going to have bulls hang up, um, no matter how well you pick your setup, but you want to try to prevent that if you can. And in my opinion, I could be wrong. Um, but what I've seen from my experience of, of elk doing this or not doing this is when an elk gets to a spot where they can see visually, see not here anymore, not smell none of that. It, I think it's their sense of sight, um,

When they get to a point where they should be able to see the elk that's calling to them, being us with the call in our mouth, however we're doing it, or the caller behind us,

They expect to be able to see that elk. They are now a little more nervous. They're a little more on edge. Like, hey, I've put in the work to get to this point. And a lot of times they'll get to this hang-up spot and they will call or they'll do something. Whether they posture, whether they call, they expect the caller to do the rest of the work. Now, if this is truly a visual thing,

We need to set up either on a terrain break, meaning that the terrain goes from flat to steep, steep to flat, side hill, a finger ridge, you know, something that will block the visibility of you and that bull. But when they do get to the point where they can visually see that elk calling to them, whether you're bugling a bull elk or whether you're cow calling, you know, that cow elk that should be in this location, you need to be able to shoot. Okay.

And with that said, I like to be within 40 yards, like you mentioned in the question, to that terrain break or vegetation break. You know, a lot of times if there's clean timber that gets to a brush, they will need to break through that brush. If they're in brush and they're breaking out into clean timber where you're at, they will get to that edge of the brush or somewhere in there where they've got good sight there.

And this is one of the reasons I don't get to hunt with a lot of two person calling setups, but this is where having a caller potentially 30, you know, I don't like to be too far back, but 20 or 30 yards back because now the perceived elk that they should be able to see is now 20 or 30 yards behind you. If you do this right, or you put them in a location where there's another visual break and that elk can't see them, but you're now 30 yards ahead of them, it will potentially pull that bull past the hangup spot for you and

as the shooter and bring them in for an archery shot. So when I set up, I'm looking, I like to look at it as basically a 90 degree window where the bull's coming in or something like that. Like I want, you know, if I look 45 degrees to my left, 45 degrees to my right,

Ideally, I have multiple shooting lanes from zero to 40 or 50, 60 yards. If that bull crosses to my left trying to get wind, I've got a shooting lane here. If he crosses, I'm pointing, nobody can see me pointing here, obviously, but if they cross in these different valleys, I'd like to have a couple different...

whoops, excuse me, hit my mic there. Um, I'd like to have a couple of different shooting lanes, um, where if that bull, depending on where he comes in, I will get a shot from zero to 60. Now, a lot of times, you know, it's a balance of, you want some cover, but you want some shooting lanes. Um, you want, you want to have enough opportunities in there. So, uh, yeah, I like to set up where I can hopefully prevent that bull from hanging up. And then when I do set up, I like to have my shooting lanes and I've talked about this a lot. Um,

Set yourself up in front of obstacles and brush and material. Let your camo or let your solids, I'm not going to get into argument what you need to have, but let your silhouette be broken up by brush or a tree, something behind you, and then you stand in front of it. That way you're free to move in any direction. If the bull comes in a different direction, you can move. And that's kind of my best advice for a setup is

Um, the hang up, in my opinion, comes from letting that bull be able to see too far, um, into your location. Yeah, that's great advice. Um, I, in fact, when I, when I set up, I even kind of take it like one step further on my shooting lanes. I, I don't like to have very many shooting lanes. I like to have just a couple, um,

shooting lanes. I want to be able, I want that bull to have to come into like 30, 40 yards, preferably 30 yards before he could ever see where those calls are coming from. Right? So, and this is typically for a solo setup. Like Jason said, if I have a caller behind me, I want them to behind me, but I don't want them too far to where I can't see them. I want to keep eye contact and

That way we can signal each other. It's like, oh, we need to move up or, hey, caller, move back or move up or down the hill, whatever. Because sometimes as the caller, when you're back there, you don't know what's going on up and up where the shooter's standing.

Sometimes you can't hear those little nuanced sounds. It's like, well, that bull's moving this way, it's moving that way. So if we can signal each other, we tend to have a better result in the end. But in...

It all kind of depends too, you know, on your maximum effective yardage. You know, if you're really good out past 60 yards, maybe you want to set up like that. But I feel like if anytime I set up to where it's a little further distance to where they can come in and eyeball me,

sometimes they they hang up and I may not get a shot but if they have to come in really close and I don't I like to I like to shoot close I like to be that 30 yards or less maybe 40 if I'm pushing it because I don't like person for my maximum effective distance I like to keep it at 40 or less just because I know that if I have that shot I'll 100% make it um but everyone's different yep

Now, as far as I'm traveling, as I'm moving towards the bull, I'm doing a few things. I'm looking at every step of the way as I'm going towards that bull as I feel like I'm getting closer to that elk. Let's say I've traveled 300 yards across a ravine or something to get close to this bull. I've traveled quietly.

I haven't been bugling, but most of the way I don't make a lot of, I don't pop, I pop, I pop as much brush as I want until I get into that zone. It's like, I think that elk is probably going to be a couple hundred yards away now, maybe a hundred yards away. I'm going to get really quiet and I'm going to be very calculated at point. And I'm going to, and what I do is I look ahead to where if, if I could see an elk standing there and he could see me,

what's that distance is that 80 yards is that 60 yards is that 100 yards if it's if i only have visibility to 30 yards i start thinking okay i'm getting in a good place to maybe call this bull into um but let's say i get over there and i can see 100 yards through big open timber i'm probably going to pause for a minute and kind of reassess i'm going to number one i'm not going to want to start calling

until I get to a point where, I think he's pretty close to here, but I don't want to start making a bunch of calls right now to where he could like all of a sudden appear a hundred yards away and look and see my location. Cause he's going to be expecting to see an elk and then he's going to stop and he's going to look a little bit and then he's going to leave. So I'm going to probably be a little calculated before I show my hand, my, my cart, my hand of cards per se. If I get to that a hundred yards, it's like, I don't like this spot. I'm going to

But I think he's close. I'm going to creep forward slowly. I'm probably going to use my binoculars a little bit. I'm going to have my eyes just fixated on picking apart every little bit of brush looking for movement, whether I see an antler tying, whether I see an ear moving, whether I see a black nose or a black mane. I'm going to be looking for that bull.

And then I'm going to get through that section. And usually you'll get 100 yards or so. And then the timber will grow a little denser. Maybe you'll have some younger trees and it'll get a little thicker. And it's like, okay, now I'm starting to get to a place where it's a little bit, I can't see as far. Now I'm going to start picking apart. Okay, I want to have a couple pretty good trees.

pretty good shooting lanes. You mentioned 40 yards, maximum 40 yards. You know, it's like, okay, I'd shoot 40 yards there or maybe 20 yards. So maybe one pretty decent one and maybe one so-so one. And I found when I do this, bulls come in a lot closer and they don't just stand out there and just look at me. Yep.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. All right, next question.

Hey guys, Dan up here in North Idaho. Had a question for you. Being up here in North Idaho in a thick brush country, often I have relied heavily on our calling, of course, since it's hard to glassman and whatnot. But often I will have an interaction with the bull, calling back and forth, and I know that they...

that bull will still be in the area. My question, I was wondering if you can confirm that that bull or whatever is still in the same area and you want to go back and try them another day, do you go back in there with different calls, different mouth calls, different bugle tubes, or do you think they have a memory for that kind of stuff? Just curious. Thanks for the show.

Talk to you later. Bye. So bulls and their memory and calls. And I have a different opinion now than when I started. I felt like if I was calling to a bull and wasn't able to call him in, I needed to switch my diaphragm up or I needed to go from an external, you know, a cow call or whatever it may be. In my opinion, not that elk aren't smart animals, but I don't feel they've got the ability to associate animals

elk calls with the next elk. With an individual. Individual. Now, not saying this only affects people that aren't good callers, but if you sound like a elk or close enough to a real elk and they believed it at that time,

then you're probably okay. Now, if there's suspect sounds, I think could potentially, and you make the suspect sounds the first time and the second time, like I'm not, I'm not going to vouch for you that they're not going to pick that out multiple times or every time you do it. Let's, let's assume you call good enough. You know, it sounds like you rely on your calls a lot in North Idaho brushy. If you're a good enough caller, I don't feel, if you sound like an elk, you can really mess things up where they attribute to memory.

I do get a little concerned, number one, if I ever get winded why I'm calling. Now, I don't know. I'm saying I get concerned. Now, I don't know if that has just educated them for the season, if it's educated them for two days, three days a week.

Um, sometimes we went back in there. A lot of times I'll give them a day or two just because in my head, it's like, man, they, I winded them. I busted them. Like I'm not going to put pressure on them again. I want to let that memory subside. Now I'm speculating here a lot. Um, getting winded while calling, um,

is concerning um being seen why calling i think has got to trigger something like why is there a predator or you know a human looking at me that sounds just like us i and i'm i'm just i'm thinking of this like a human like i can't say what an elk actually um understand so with that said that to to not circle around this question i i

Not to sound overconfident or pretentious or anything. I feel like I sound enough like an elk through my calling that I can go back in there and not switch diaphragms, not switch my style, as long as I know I didn't get winded. And I don't feel that an elk's memory. As a matter of fact, I've got enough boots on the ground, real world experience to be very confident that it doesn't matter. I've called to a bull one day, didn't work out, come back in the next day and kill him with the same exact sequence and the same exact diaphragm in my mouth.

Um, so yeah, I, I don't feel you can really, um, mess up by, or, or by using the same calls or that you have to go through the process of switching your calls up or going from a diaphragm one day to an external cow call the next day to a, you know, a squeeze call the next, whatever you're using. Um, I don't think you have to go to those extents. Um, either the bulls you're going to, it's going to be right or it's going to be wrong, um, regardless of what calls in your mouth. Um,

my opinion. Um, I do play a little bit of defense there if, if they've got winded when I come back in or whatnot, but I don't feel if you sound like an elk, um, you can really screw up too bad. My opinion is pretty similar to yours. Um, I feel like if you haven't busted that bull, if you haven't, um, spooked him out of there, um, yeah, you can definitely go back in with, you know, um,

the next day or, or maybe you want to let it set for a couple of days before you go back in, whatever. Uh, I don't think you need to switch up your calls, but I will say from anecdotal experience where, um, there was a time several years ago, I called in a bull and I missed him. I hit a, I hit a branch and I missed him and he spooked off and ran off, but he kept bugling. So I pushed up on him, pressured him and he came in a couple more times, but I had pressured him really hard that day. Um, and he,

One time he caught me in the open and he, I don't know that he saw me, but I had to lay completely flat on the ground because he caught me in a, in an open trail and I had to lay down so he wouldn't see me when he came back. But then he finally eventually just kind of spooked off. But I went back the next day thinking, well, this guy was hot. I'm going to get him the next day. And I could see him. It was in kind of some kind of cut over timber. So I could see him at a distance. And I got out of my truck, hiked up the hill, got to the spot, called, I bugled.

And he was feeding at the time. As soon as I bugled, he threw his head up and he ran like a... The opposite direction. The complete opposite direction. So I feel like that pressure that I put on him the day before probably fouled that up. And what we don't know is like once that scenario plays itself out and you're like, well, I didn't get him. I'm going to go back home or whatever. I'm going to leave. Who's to say that bull doesn't come back and sniff around? Like our scent...

can be left on the ground for quite a while. You know, I probably took a leak afterwards because I'd probably been holding it for a while, but those things come back around and sniff around the area a little later on in the day. And they're like, well, I don't know. Like, I don't like what happened earlier. I don't know if they're that smart, but I feel like if you've bumped them,

If they've seen you, if you've spooked them pretty hard, you might want to give them a couple days to kind of forget. Or the next time when you go back in, maybe you want to take your different bugle tube and a different diaphragm and kind of mix up the sounds you make and try something different. It can't hurt. I mean, like I said, I can take different... It seems like if I take different bugle tubes with different diaphragms, I end up sounding the same because I'm trying to force myself to sound like a certain sound. But yeah, I agree. You can change things up a little bit. Just...

If nothing else, to give you the confidence that you're doing something different, a little bit of a placebo effect, right? Like I'm of the opinion that it's either right or it's wrong. You know, the time's right or it's wrong. And I don't know if it really matters what's in your mouth for a call. You know, you're either going to sound like a cow and he wants to come in and find a new cow or you're going to sound like a bull and he wants to come in and run you off, regardless of maybe what you sound like.

is my opinion, not saying it's fact, but I'm more of the opinion though that it's either right or it's wrong at the time that you're using that call and it doesn't necessarily matter what you sound like. I love it. I have to agree with a lot of that. All right, next question.

Hey, Dirk, I appreciate this. I just got done with my second archery elk hunt, and bulls were pretty vocal down in New Mexico in the Gila. Bulls were pretty vocal, but quickly I was kind of realizing that when we were vocal using cow calls and stuff, they would be vocal and kind of stop, and we'd cut the distance. But the second we'd introduce a bull –

They create distance from us and we were never able to get on them. So my question is, do you think that elk can decipher between human and hunter? And do you think that they do that? Do you think that they stay vocal in order to keep tabs on us to stay away from us? Thank you.

Man, that's a deep one. I'm trying to process it all here. I'm going to try to restate the question, make sure I got it, and I'll let Dirk correct me. So it sounds like they were in the Gila, had elk bugling, being vocal, and when they would cow call, the elk would sometimes cut the distance or move in, but when they would bugle, the elk would shut up or maintain their distance or get further away. I think that's it. For the most part. And without having any further detail, I'm

I think the distance or the timing of your bugles is maybe more important than just saying, and I've got to speculate here. I've talked about this a lot on even it maybe ranks up as my number one mistake while calling elk is did you bugle when you thought you were 100 yards away or knew you were 100 yards away or did you bugle when you thought you were 300 or 400 yards away and expected that to work?

Um, from my experience and I, I learned the hard way, um, many, many times of, of, uh, wanting to, to get a bull to beagle as I came in, I would, you know, beagle locate. I would beagle a little bit down the hill or up, you know, as I approach, I'd beagle again. And I'm like, man, this elk is staying the same distance. No matter what I do. You'd call your way to the bull. Yeah. I would. I, cause whether I wanted the confidence, I wasn't confident in where he was at. So I wanted to hear him again to make sure I was going the right spot.

So you call, you beagle again, you get an answer. But you can only do that so many times until you get to a spot where he's going to now pull his cows away and just leave, right? He's going to avoid any confrontation if he can for the most part. With that said, I beagled myself into bedding areas where that bull wasn't going to move an inch and it worked out. But for the most part, especially in the morning before they've actually bedded down,

Um, I try to make sure that I don't bugle until I'm very, very close. I feel that bugling your way into a bull from the time you locate until the time you're within the red zone or the bubble is the potential greatest cause for that bull leaving or getting out of the area with his cows. Um, of course we're talking about herd bulls here, which it sounds like, um, I'm going to speculate that that's what you're, you're hunting. Um,

With that said, timing of the bugle, I'd be very curious, and I know we can't have a dialogue, but I'd be curious to know if you were bugling at 300 yards or 100 or 500, how that worked, and if the bull completely disappeared and stopped bugling, or if the bull would just stay in equidistance apart the entire time. In those situations...

I would, like I say, you got to just, you got to get closer to beagle. You have to be quiet. You have to make some assumptions. You have to be confident that those elk are going to be in that location. Once you locate them. Yes. Once you locate them, then what? You've got to almost assume where they're at at that point.

Now, some people might be like, well, I know right where they're at when they bugle. For me, a lot of times, whether it's mountain country or broken country, I'm like, there's a bull down in that canyon. I don't know exactly where he's at, but there's something in that canyon. Whether it's a long distance bugle, whatever it may be. So a lot of times you pull out your mapping software. For us, it's Onyx. You're like, all right, he's down that canyon. You put your little, you hit the, I don't even know what the button is. On the bottom right of Onyx, you hit the button and it tells you exactly which direction you're pointing your phone. You kind of point it at the bugle. You're like,

I think he's about 500 yards away. He's about in here, right? So now I've got a point in my head or on the map, and I've got to assume that he's going to be there. Now, if it's going to take you an hour to get there, he might not be there, right? And so you've got to add all this in, but you've just got to get really, really close to elk when you're going to bugle. We maybe talk about it too much that we're bugle-heavy callers,

but we're always trying to get very, very tight. We locate from a distance. You get a response, basically like a game of Marco Polo, but you don't say it again until you get within tight, tight distance of them because I feel your chances of calling them in are very, very difficult. In those instances, if you're going to call them longer distances, and a lot of times you're not going to call this herd bull in if you do this, but sticking to the cow calls, like you said,

you're most likely going to call in some of those satellite bulls. And they may be great bulls. If you're just after any legal elk or any legal bull and you're not after that herd bull, it may be a great tactic. But that's just my opinion. I can't ask you the exact situation. But my speculation is you were maybe bugling a little too far out, which would allow that bull time to round his cows up and get away from you.

That's a great answer. One thing I'd like to bring up too is he said he was second time, second year elk hunting. Now, sometimes new callers, and I don't want to assume that you're not a good caller, but sometimes as new callers, we don't sound like an elk very good. You know, sometimes we make some bugles that are a little suspect, right? Maybe your cow calls sound really good. Maybe your bugles sound bad.

not so good. And if, especially if you're hunting in an area that's had some pressure or whatever, or maybe, um, you know, I've heard some elk calls before in the woods, um, guys running calls and it sounded nothing like an elk and they were selling it hard. Like it was an elk and it was not an elk sound at all. So you have to like

you know, to look at the man in the mirror a little bit and like, do Mike, are my calls authentic? Now you don't have to sound like some world champion out caller, your favorite YouTube celebrity, whatever you, what you have to sound is like an elk and elk make all sorts of weird vocalizations. And some of them sound really terrible, but what they do have is they do have that realism. Um, there's some, there's a, there's a,

level of realism to the call. It may not be a perfect call, but it does still have some realism to them. But if your calls are subpar and they're just not sounding like a real elk, then right now, here we are, it's November, pick up a call.

wear out a few between now and next September you know practice practice practice it's a 5-10 minute thing a day it's not a 5 hour thing a day you know I have to do this for an hour a day unless you want to but even 5-10 minutes a day is definitely gonna move the needle so by the time next fall comes you're gonna be very familiar with your call the call you want to make is gonna come out of your bugle and you're gonna sound pretty authentic that would be my first thing

Now, New Mexico, we've hunted New Mexico a few times and I know we got a lot of advice from people who have hunted New Mexico before. One piece of advice I was given was don't ever bugle to bulls in New Mexico. They don't bugle to bugles. And I said, okay, what should we do? Well, be very, very heavy on cow calls. Okay, great. Day one, New Mexico, lots of cow calls. I'm doing lots of cow calls.

hardly no bugles i'm just not getting any reaction i'm not getting any replies from these elk i'm not getting you know nothing's good nothing's bad i start bugling like i start running my normal program where i do i'm pretty bugle heavy but i do use a lot of cow calls too now i'm starting to get reactions from these elk

So you can't always take all of the advice as gospel. There's good advice. There's shades of truth to everyone's advice, but you have to take that advice for what it's worth and for the day and the situation that you're in. So if, like, let's say one day you're doing some cow calls, but you're just not calling anything in, try some bugles. And if those bugles are working, great. Stick with them.

Or if the bugles are not working, let's say your calls sound good and you're bugling, but the elk keep moving away. Maybe you should lay off the bugles. Maybe let's just go to cow calls. Maybe try to locate them really good and try to figure, pin down exactly where that bull is and then get there quietly. Get as close, up close and personal of that bull as you can and

Maybe at that time it'd be time to do some cow calls, but whatever's working, keep doing it. Whatever's not working, don't do. I'm a big believer in that. And then one thing was really crazy for me in New Mexico was we thought like we've been hunting elk for a long time and you have kind of a distance gauge. Every time you hear a bugle, it's like, oh, it's this far away.

Well, New Mexico really screwed with my head because the bulls would sound like, oh, yeah, they're just right over here. You know, they're like 300 yards away, 200 yards away. They could be almost a mile away. Because of how dense the timber is or the cover there, it's not as thick.

they don't have big tall trees like we have in the northwest it's more open so the sound travels so much further and it's so much louder um you i felt like there were several days i thought oh i would set up and think i'm going to call this bull in and he was still a quarter of a mile away yeah i was not even in the realm of calling this bullet so

You have to really factor that in to your calling setups too, especially in New Mexico. I mean, it's a different sound travel pattern there. O'Reilly Auto Parts are in the business of keeping your car on the road. I love O'Reilly. In fact, the other day, I'm not kidding you, the other day I went into an O'Reilly Auto Parts looking for a part. I needed a different thing that wasn't really in there, you know, only like tangentially related to what they carry.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. All right, next question.

Hey, Derek. This is Dimitri. Just calling. I just got back from a Montana archery hunt. I had a bull come in to 40 yards that I had just previously ranged. I was standing in front of some brush and a tree, and the elk came in so fast, I didn't have time to draw. He faced straight at me and was sniffing around looking for the cow that I just called.

And I felt like five minutes I was frozen, couldn't move. He finally turned, quartered a little bit, and took three steps in front of, right behind two trees. And so my question is, should I have tried to pin that needle between those trees? Should I have tried to take that funnel shot? When he did quarter two and got his head behind one of the trees,

I did draw back, but he never seemed to give me really my shot that I was kind of looking for. I was hoping that he would take a couple steps, but he never did, and he just kind of drawn it off after I tried to call Callum back. But, yeah, I just wanted to see if you got any tips for me on that. Thanks, Dirk. Man, so I've...

Been a big fan of frontals for a long time. Anybody that's heard me talk or talk about frontals knows that I'm a big fan. Now at 40 yards, I'm not a big fan, right? So I'm not telling you what to do. This is a decision everybody's got to make. But for me, 40-yard frontal is not going to happen. No matter how excited I am, no matter how much I want to kill a bull, I know my limits usually going into season. And I've never been comfortable to a point where a 40-yard frontal was on the table. I've got to hit a four-inch wide ball

Um, slot. And if I can't guarantee that arrow is going to hit inside of that four inch wide by about 12 inch tall pocket, you know, 10 inch tall pocket, I'm, I'm not shooting. Um, so I would say frontals off, off the table, um, you know, shooting between, between two trees. Um,

I've got to guess a little bit here, right? We didn't, we don't got all the information. I'm going to assume you had vitals between those two trees. Um, at that point, there's no harm, right? You're either going to hit them where you need to hit them. If, if it's the vitals or you're going to stick a tree, um, I'd be way more comfortable with a shot between two. It sounded like maybe there's an opening between these two trees. Um, I'm way more confident there. As long as I can tell where the anatomy of this elk lays out in between those two trees, you know, um,

Not everybody knows elk are big yellow tan critters. You can get real confused real quick, especially if that gap between those two trees is tight. You might not know if you're hitting guts, back haunch,

shoulder blade right if you can't make out definition and so shooting between these two trees could be risky but if you're confident if you can maybe see his head sticking out one side his hind end sticking out the other and can gauge where you're at i'm very confident shooting between two trees because i feel like i'm either going to hit him where he needs to be hit assuming he's at 40 yards or i'm going to hit a tree and worst thing is i lose a broadhead to a tree um

To back up a little bit, you know, yeah, elk, we still get surprised all the time on elk coming in silent. You know, it's crazy how quiet an 800-pound plus or minus critter can be. But, yeah.

I've learned that a lot of my success hinges on this, that very short window of hearing, seeing, knowing a bull's ear and getting your bow drawn in a timely fashion that one, you don't have to hold it forever, but two, you've got it drawn before he can see you draw it. You know, learning that it's almost more of a, of an art than it is, than it is anything else is just knowing when and what you can get away with and getting drawn back. But yeah,

Yeah, aside from that, I don't have a lot of other advice. You've got to be very confident. As Dirk had mentioned, he knows he's 100% confident. If it's inside 40 yards, he's going to make the shot. Same thing here. If that bull's inside 40 yards, I'm very comfortable. And if I'm going to make that shot, I want to be 100% confident that I'm going to kill it. And so I don't like a 40-yard frontal.

And I like the shot between the tree, but having your bow drawn back soon enough that you don't have to try to decide when to draw and if they're going to draw, if you're going to get away with drawing where they're looking at you. You try to prevent all that from being drawn before their eyes are out in the open. Yeah, I have to agree with all that. That's a great, that's spot on. And I will say this too, as far as...

alert elk in a frontal position, a bull that's alert and looking like has stopped and is looking for that other bull or cow, they're on high alert at that point. So at 40 yards, when your bow goes off,

It seems like your bow's shooting fast, but there's enough time for between the time your bow goes off and that arrow reaches that elk for that bull to be facing the complete opposite direction. They can spin on a dime very quickly. So I don't really recommend a frontal shot

on an alert elk, whether it's at 10 yards or at 40 yards. I've been around, I've taken a frontal shot, a couple of them. I've been around other folks who have taken frontal shots and the bulls that are coming in like on full alert when that shot's taken,

maybe the pin, everything is in the perfect spot, but at the very split second that that bow goes off and the arrow reaches the elk, they can move and now it's not hitting in that same slot that Jason was talking about. And now it's going to be a track job that you may or may not

yield a bull elk. So it's kind of a tricky situation, and especially at 40 yards. I don't recommend a frontal shot at 40 yards whatsoever, period. They need to be closer, 20 yards or less. There's so many things to consider, like the angle of the elk. Is he quartering this way? Is he quartering that way? Is he above you? Is he below you? All the angles have to be good to thread that

that arrow right down the pipe, right? So consider extreme angles, whether it's upper high or low and angles of quartering and then the alert factor. If that bull's not super alert, yeah, he may not know what hit him and he's going to tip over dead in 40 yards on a perfect shot. So that's my advice. All right, we have time for one more question.

Dirk, my name is Preston Dressler. I live in southwest Oregon. I hope to harvest my first Roosevelt elk in the next few years. I've been after them for eight years plus. I'm hunting at over 6,000 feet, so obviously a very different terrain for Roosevelt. However, I understand that they live here year-round and have had several close encounters, just not put one in the freezer yet.

I'd love to hear some information on hunting Roosevelt's in the mountains. Uh, I'm a rifle hunter. My season isn't until around Thanksgiving. Obviously this is after the rut snows normally on the ground, but the elk are being quiet. It's a, uh, you know, a bull only tag. So unfortunately cows aren't an option for me, um, with relatively low success. I'd love to hear some tips on how to find the elk come November. Uh, I'm,

I'm in contact with my wildlife experts in the area. Unfortunately, this is a deer unit, so they don't have a lot of information for me. Please let me know what I should be doing, what I'm doing right, what I'm doing wrong. Love the podcast. Hope to hear more soon. Bye-bye. All right.

Hi, it sounds like high mountain Roosevelt hunting, you know, cascade Roosevelt's. I've got a lot of experience. I've, I hunt cascade Roosevelt's growing up, um, still do occasionally, but I've never had the experience, uh, hunting them in, in rifle season. Um, you know, you add snow in there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of components to this question. I'm trying to, to kind of go back through them. Um,

Post rut, I'm just going to boil it down to just what I know. Post rut, an elk's job now is to fatten up and eat as much as he can. Typically, the big bulls are going to go into solitude. Smaller bulls may bachelor back up. Some small bulls may stay with the herd. It really depends on what your goal is going into the hunt. Some of the times I've hunted late,

I'm looking for where is that bull going to find solitude and the feed that he needs to basically put on as much fat, as much weight, and regain as much of that health as he can to get through that winter. If there's snow on the ground...

I use that snow to my advantage, whether it's, you know, you mentioned being high in the mountains. I don't know if there's a road system leading in or a trail system. Cutting tracks can tell you more than anything else can, where the elk have been recently, where they've been for the last couple of days, weeks, whatever it may be.

I don't know if you can glass in this area. If you can glass, I love to get up and look into openings early where they may be feeding or where I can maybe look into some spots. And some people may know what I'm talking about, but there are these spots that aren't like you're glassing a clear cut or an alpine above the tree area. But there are these spots that may have avalanche shoots or they may have little teeny pockets in the timber you can look in

Those are the spots in those later elk seasons I like to look because those elk want to be, you know, where there's food, which will be these small little micro openings. But they want to be secure and have that security and kind of that solitude. So I'm looking in areas like that. One thing I like to do, I like to...

So I do two things. I want to be able to find elk, obviously. So you can gloss, you know, miles across canyons or miles from ridge to ridge. But I also like to be in the hunt. I like to look at canyons where if there is an elk there and the wind's going to be right, I can shoot across that canyon. I'm in the hunt versus there are times where I consider I'm hunting, but I'm out of the hunt, right? I'm glossing at something 2,000, 3,000 yards away, hoping to find something that I can then play on, but I'm never in the hunt at that moment. And so I like to be in the hunt.

And so I tend to like to be in the hunt when I can or when I'm looking at spots. But cutting sign, obviously going to be your best bet. Calling, there's no denying it's off the table. Cutting tracks, glassing in spots where other people aren't going to. A lot of times these bulls are going to want to be away from pressure, away from people. If it's a cow tag, you know, if you're allowed to, I think he did say bulls, right?

Um, you know, so, so scratch that, but you will find if you're looking for any bull, a lot of times those younger bulls will stay with the herd, um, especially as Roosevelt's, uh, tend to do. Um, so if you find a large herd, I would definitely concentrate on that as well. Those bigger bulls will typically, as soon as the rut, uh, kind of winds down, they're going to be off on their own, um, away from, from all the cows, but, um, not a great answer. Um,

Oh, we, we still kill cascade Roosevelt's up, you know, above the tree line, or I say we, or people that I know every year up high until the snow basically forces them down. So you can go high, which it sounds like where you're at and, and, you know, it can work. So not a great answer, but that that's really all you can do is find tracks, um,

concentrate on those micro openings. A lot of times those bulls aren't going to want to be out in the wide open where you may have found them in September or October. And yeah, that's the best I can give on that one.

You know, I can't really add much at all to that. I mean, that was exactly how I would approach it. I don't, I can't really speak to, to, to Roosevelt's, but elk are elk, right? They need, they don't need all the same things. Iraqi needs all the same things that Roosevelt needs. You know, they need, they need food, they need security. Um,

they need to be, you know, they need to recoup from the rut, right? So just to recap, if you're just having a hard time finding elk, like start, cast a wide net in the beginning, drive the road system, look for elk. If they're going to crossroads, maybe it's a trail system, hike the trails. A lot of times elk hunting with a rifle is all about boot leather,

and glass, right? So if you need to hike a lot and just find elk, if you can't, if it's not an area you can glass up, maybe you just got to cover tons of country in a day just to just hike a lot until you find sign and then slow down and hunt from there.

Like Jason said, you know, bigger areas, you know, you may be able to glass into some clear cuts or whatever and find some elk. You know, a lot of times you're going to find the cows and maybe younger bulls, more mature bulls. A lot of times we'll, like he just said, we'll separate themselves looking for those micro habitats, those little, those avalanche shoots, those smaller openings in the timber, just those micro places where they don't have to travel far. They can bed together.

100 yards away they can go over there they can either belly fold maybe there's somewhere to get some water or maybe they don't need any water at that point because there's enough snow on the ground whatever whatever the case may be

to locate them that way and then dig in, whether you can shoot long range across the canyon, you know, within range, within reason, or maybe it's like, okay, I've spotted that bull. I've used my Onyx to pinpoint that little location. Maybe you're gonna have to get over there and dig in and hike that timber pocket to find that bull. But that's how I would approach it too. So, yeah.

Anyway, thanks, Jason. I appreciate all these answers. I mean, one of these days we're going to find some stuff we don't agree on and we're going to have a debate. White tails versus mule deers. We've had that a few times. Well, yeah, we've had that a lot. You know, people may not know this. Jason has a lot of hobbies, but I call it arguing, but

Debate. Healthy debate. He says, hey, healthy debate. I think healthy debate is one of his favorite hobbies. So I'm always challenging him on things because I know how much he enjoys it, and I sure do too.

But one of these days, we're going to have a debate on here. We're going to take opposite sides on something. And like, you know, I mean, we could go all night about white tails and mule deer. But, you know, that's for another conversation. Appreciate it. But, hey, you know, we can do this again sometime, guys. If you guys want to call in to the super secret hotline, it's 208-

Leave a message. It can't be over three minutes long. I think that's what it is, three minutes long. Or it could just cut you off. Yeah, and no more than three minutes because you won't remember the question. You're going to have to play it back three or four times so you can put it all together. Yeah, we're simple-minded people. Our memories are not that long. We'll have to play it two or three times. Wait, what did they say?

So anyway, call in with your questions and we'll get either Jason or myself or maybe one of the guests on here to answer the question. Thanks a lot for listening and we'll catch you on the next episode.

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