Ep. 54: DIY Elk Hunting Series: Rifle Elk Hunting PT2
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Dirk Durham here. I'm being your host again for another episode of Cutting the Distance. If you listened to one of our previous episodes, I had my good buddy Tom Schneider and we sat down and we started talking about rifle elk hunting post-rut. And we got into the weeds a little bit on long range shooting, what to do when you hear a bull elk bugling in October and you got a rifle in your hands.

And then after we recorded the podcast, we kind of laughed a little bit and said, man, we just didn't get deep enough. So this is a bonus episode. This is a second episode, and we're going to continue that conversation of what if the bulls are not bugling? What now? How do we proceed with that? So welcome back, Tom. Thank you. Tom, give just another brief description of who you are in case nobody's listened to the first episode. Tom operates the Stuck in the Rut YouTube channel.

channel and social media him and his family very accomplished hunters and they filmed their hunt so they put them on YouTube if you haven't seen it you have to check it out I feel like maybe you've lived under a rock if you haven't seen it because they have they've got a really big following lots of really good viral videos on hunting all species of North American game and

Tom, tell us just a tiny bit about yourself and then we're going to move right back into the questions. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, he covered most of it with me being stuck in a rut. You know, I think kind of just the best, the simplest way to explain my family and how we are, but we just, we work all year, we have our jobs, but we've made hunting a priority in our life where every year, if you, I mean, I've, it's myself, I've

My older brother, Travis, my sister, Tan, my little brother, Trevor, we've all made it a priority in our life to take off hunting season every single year to hunt. We don't work. We work hard just so that we can do that. And I think a lot of that, I kind of go back to my dad multiple times because he owned a logging company growing up and he made it a priority to take off hunting.

hunting season and the hunt and now do we live the 95 type job no there's a lot of times in the week where we work 50 to 60 hours a week but we do that so that we can have fun that really for me that that's my drive like i you know that's what keeps me working that's what keeps me making money

is my hobby, you know, and I'm really fortunate where I live to where that's just the fact, you know, we travel a lot to hunt. We've talked about that. We're, um, and if you listen to the last podcast, we've talked about Alaska, Alaska a lot. My sister, brother-in-law live up there. So we have a lot of hunting opportunity up there as well. But living down here in Idaho, we do have a lot, a lot of opportunity here too. Um, we're surrounded by three different mountain ranges and we have a lot of different species of animals to hunt. Um,

And, you know, for me as a resident, I can buy a tag over the counter. I could hunt. Shoot, in September, I could have, it's almost like anything goes, right? Like in September, I could have an elk tag, archery elk tag, archery deer tag, which is mealy or a whitetail.

I could have a black bear tag and wolf tags. Man, I can get quite a bit of those if you want. How many do you want? I told you to pick up another one just in case because usually the tough thing about it is when you're wolf hunting. Again, I immediately get off topic sometimes. But

If you call it a wolf bag, there's usually more than one that comes in. When Dirk came up here, he's like, yeah, I got one wolf tag. I'm like, we got to run to the store to get another one just in case, because I can't tell you how many times I had friends who were like, oh yeah, I shot a wolf, but then the other wolf was just walking around and I couldn't shoot it because I didn't have another tag. She's like, yeah. So for me, I've just learned to buy more than one wolf tag.

And then if you get close to that number, then buy more. That's Idaho for you. I love this state. That's really smart. That was really smart advice. So we talked a lot about, you know,

Calling, you know, if you heard a bull bugling in our first episode, I'll let you guys, you know, look back to my previous episode. It'd probably be a couple episodes ago where Tom and I talk about if you hear a bull bugling in October and how to approach that. Now let's go a little deeper into the post rut to now elk are not talking. And sometimes, you know, especially in big timber country, you would almost think,

argue there's no elk here at all, especially in an area that has low elk densities. How are you locating those elk? And then how are you like hunting them once you found them? That's a great question. And, and I definitely recommend anyone to go back to the other podcast where we were talking about, you know, it, it goes back to understanding the behavior of the elk first, because now, you know, we, we did talk about, okay, if you got a bull bugling, you're

This is how I'd approach it. But the majority of the post-rut hunt, you're not going to have elk talking. Now, it's great if you have glassing opportunity. But if it's an area, I don't care how open it is, if it's an area where it's a public land, easy tag to get, to achieve, these elk figure out hunting pressure quick and they will pull into places that you will never know.

if you really don't know elk you're not going to be able to know how to find them so it really goes back to understanding the behavior of the elk you know going back to the groceries their shelter and their safety and if there's anything you want to add to that let me know but that's what i always look at with animals the one thing you and i both talked about is that a big bull

He puts safety a priority over other things. Now, sure, there could be one side of the mountain where there's a lot of food, right? There could be a lot of browse. You can find cows. You can see rag bulls there. But it's like, where did that big bull go during archery season? He's gone. I don't know where to find him. A big bull will put safety as a priority over the groceries and the shelter. Now, when I mean shelter, shelter, I'm talking more like weather.

You know, we need a shelter. We have a home. Now, it doesn't mean we're safe that we're in a home. It's just the fact that, you know, this is our shelter. You know, it rains, it snows. There's elk behave differently on a hot, sunny day.

than they do in the wintertime. Now, even the hot sunny days that they need shelter for that, right? They're going to hang out on a North facing slope. They're going to hang out a nice cool draw. They're not going to be bedded down most likely on a South facing slope when it's 95 degrees, they need to stay cool. So that just goes back to understanding the behavior of the elk. And now what I like to do, and again, it goes back to me growing up. I grew up around elk.

I watched elk. I watched what elk do in the wintertime in their waning range. I watch them where they drop their antlers, watch them where they're wither to summer. And sometimes when that timber country is like, well, how do you do that? Well, trail camps, you know, finding those areas where these bulls are hanging out, trail cams are really important. It could be corridors. It could be wallows, anything. It's just setting a lot of trail cams out, doing your homework. The one thing I've learned,

is that these bulls aren't hanging out where these cows are in the early parts, right before September kicks in, right? We've talked about, you and I, I mean, again, we've had this week, in the past three days, we've talked a lot about this and things that we've learned about elk. We've just been geeking out over elk this whole week. With elk, we've noticed this. We're like, Travis and I had an area, and it was probably about, I'd like to say, as the crow flies, it's four miles apart.

We had one area where we had a trail cam and the other area we had another. This one particular spot, we had a bachelor group of bulls. It was probably four or five bulls that were hanging out. The other one, it was cows all summer long. It was one of the biggest learning curves I had because I can't tell you how many friends I've had. They're like, I have this big monster velvet bull. As soon as he went hard-hitting, he just disappeared. I don't even know where he's at anymore. Well, in this particular area, these bachelor bulls all of a sudden disappeared in the month of September. And they all started showing up on my trail cameras.

where the cows were it almost sounds basic right it's like wow that's pretty obvious but some people it's just sometimes like we forget like the most simple things and those bulls move back to where the cows are yeah that's where they'll go and to breed the cows and to find them now now we're going back to the post rut right and sometimes in the early parts of october you still catch these bulls bugling even a big bull it could sometimes even be the first couple gunshots that'll go off also you'll see a big bull just disappear

And I feel like if there was, and this is, I just noticed this in areas where there was no hunting rifle pressure, no, no rifles shots going off. Those big bulls, they'll still kind of hang out around the cows and they'll still breed a cow here and there if she goes back in the estrus. But as soon as the rifle season kick, it's almost like there's like, screw it. Like most of the cows have been bred. I've done most of my work. They just disappear completely. Right. It can be day two in the hunt. They're gone. And now you got cows and rag bulls. So most of the time during this rifle season,

People are after, oh, well, I'm just shooting rag bulls. So when we're talking about post-red elk, I'm not going to talk about just regular rag bulls. I'm not going to talk about cows. I'm actually going to talk about where do the big herb bulls go? Where do they hang out? And you'll just find out they'll pull themselves in a hole where they feel safe. In some cases, if they don't get snow, at least where I hunt, at least they will actually pull back in those original basins again. And they'll show up for a short period of time. Like I was telling you about that game camera. All of a sudden,

Those cows, those bulls no longer are there. So they'd move back to that other trail camera and then they show up every period of time. Now, if the snow starts getting deep, they pull out and they're gone. The other thing that was really interesting though is sometimes they'd pull out before the snow hit and that was like, okay, well, why are they doing that? Why are they pulling out of the high country when the snow didn't hit? Well, the weather got cool and the frost kicked in and now a lot of that food source has disappeared, right? We're back to talking about the groceries.

All the leaves on the brush that they really like to have, if that's that mountain ash or anything like that, all those leaves fall off the brush. As soon as that happens, they're out of the high country. And again, it's going back to not, okay, they do this, so that's where I'm going to follow them. It's like, why did they do that? I'm always asking why. Okay, that's why the elk left that high country, because we got a frost, and then a couple weeks later,

Now that the leaves all fell out of the brush, if it's alders, mountain ash, that Waxley's leonosis, well, it holds its brush, but it's a little bit different. They pull into a different area. They move out to where the food source is. And actually, sorry, and I did bring up Waxley's leonosis. That actually is the opposite. We were talking about that where it curls up and it actually creates the opposite effect where now animals...

at least where we're at, just they thrive on that brush because the sugars go to the ends. And so also understanding what their groceries are and why it does what it does. For me being, and I think a lot of it happens where my knowledge comes with brush and trees is the fact that I grew up, we talked a little bit about me working in construction, but the majority of my life, I've been in forest management from logging to clearing land,

I know a lot of different species of trees, shrubs. And so understanding that alone can help you understand elk behavior. That really helped me out a lot. And understanding what brush does, what's eating on the brush. And so I'll see a species of brush and I'll see white-tailed mule deer or elk in the area, but they're not touching that brush. Well, I know for a fact that that's not a brush they'd like to feed on, right?

We were talking about bear grass. Remember that? We were talking about, do you notice that animals just don't hit bear grass? They'll eat that stem out of the center, but they won't hardly ever eat bear grass. Now, again, I don't know. That's one thing. I don't know why they don't like bear grass. Just animals don't like eating it. So bear grass doesn't hold an animal in the mountains. It doesn't. Even I talk about my horse's meals. They take one bite out of it because I think they're just deceived. Like, oh, grass, take a bite. And they're like, oh, I'll never do that again. Yeah.

And a mule will just about eat anything. They browse brush just like a moose. Right. So, understanding that's really important too is their food source. So, I'll try to break it down. And is there anything you want to add yet on that? No, I agree with everything you're saying there. Okay. So, now I'll try to break it down. So, understand the groceries right there. Understand the brush. You know, I just explained a lot about why the elk leave the high country, especially when their main food source is those leaves. Right.

those luscious leaves at the higher elevation. Sometimes that grass loses its, and that depends on the terrain too. Cause if I go to Wyoming, those grasses, like they're actually still good, even though they turn yellow stuff, the elk will still feed on that as long as they can. Or at. Especially once it kind of starts raining. Yeah. That bunch grass, they really start like, like to start eating that bunch grass once it starts raining. Exactly. And so it really depends on the terrain you're at and what they're feeding on in the area. So understand that's really important. Um,

And then now let's talk, we talked about shelter, right? Snow, when the snow starts kicking in. We've talked a lot about snow conditions. And that is one thing a lot of people don't understand. We talked about the difference between deep snow, light snow. Sometimes that's all that comes in somebody's mind. If the snow gets deep, the animals pull out. They don't understand the difference in how animals behave with powdered snow or crusty snow. And it's the same with mule deer.

Crusty snow is hard for an animal to get food source, get their food source out. And I've seen elk at the head end of a basin, belly deep of powder, muleys as well. And you're like, why is this bull not pulled down? Why is this big muley buck not pulled down? Because they can still dig up their food source. It's not that hard to dig through powder. You step in that powder, you go right to your belly button. You know what I mean? And you'll go right down to the ground. There's no base.

As soon as that base layer gets kicked in, and a lot of that's just as simple as it just getting warm in the daytime and then freezing at night. You get that warmth, it melts the snow, then it freezes at night, then you get a crust layer. That crust layer, if it's a thick enough crust layer, the animals can't dig and get their food source. So what do they do? They pull down. Some cows, they've been living in that area so long, and again, it's another topic we discussed before.

Some areas, elk stay up in the high elevation until the snow gets really deep and they pull out. In other areas, it's just how they've lived and grew up. And it could be a lead cow in the herd where it could be just a skiff of snow. And they just, in their mind, since they've been a little calf, they've remembered that if they stay up there, when the snow gets too deep, they get stuck up there. So,

So naturally they just pull down immediately. So I have areas like that. Some areas I hunt, it could be a skiff of snow and the whole herd will pull down to the base of the mountain. And other areas will stay all the way up at the top until they're forced down by deep snow. And so it just really depends on the herd. And again, sometimes a lot of that's just time in the mountains. Trail cameras figuring that out. But a big bull, one thing I've learned with big bulls is they move a lot less than a cow does. Cows, they can move back and forth from a field to their bedding area

In no time. But they're burning a lot of energy, a lot of pointless energy, right? But they've also had all year to gain that body fat. And again, this is just kind of my logic. And if there's something I'm saying wrong, stop me on this. But I've noticed that these big herd bulls, it's like after the rut, they almost just want to relax. They're just like, I've had a long rut. If a predator finds me, I'm screwed.

So they need, safety is really important to a big bull. Yep. He needs a rest. He doesn't, like, I'm sure a big bull would love to come down to the valley floor and eat in somebody's agricultural field, you know? And I'm sure if you're in areas where there's not a lot of hunting pressure or a lot of predation, you'll still see big bulls do that, right? If you go in areas where it's a really hard unit to draw, you will see big bulls go to the agriculture field. But like in areas where it's public land and they easily get shot, the safety is really important to a big bull.

The same thing with predation as well. We notice the behavior of these big bulls with wolves too. There's big bulls that still survive the wolves. They just know that they have to live in a little bit of a different area for them to prevent that. So you'll see a big bull, even sometimes not even batch or group up anymore. Like a big bull will actually stay alone by himself and just find a bench and bed down. And he just wants left alone. Sometimes it could be just as simple as e-scouting to figure out where this big bull is hanging out.

It's just, and you and I, when we were looking at wolf packs and trying to figure out what these wolves are doing, you and I were looking at maps and we're like, okay, well, this is a very popular road system people take. This is also a very popular road system people take. Sure, the wolves may run that at night. So I'm sorry, I'm getting off topic and talking about wolves, but this will make sense to you. But there's these areas where there's no road systems people don't hang out at much. That's where they hang out during the day.

And so that it's the same thing with a big bull. And especially after the first couple of days of season. So rifle season kicks in, right? You see bulls chasing cows still. It could be October 10th. It could be October 15th, depending on the region you're hunting. You got bulls, big bulls still with the cows. The gunshots start going off. After a couple of days, you start seeing less elk. And it's not that they're getting shot up. It's just that they're okay. The openings are no longer safe. These brush fields are no longer safe. It's time to hide.

And the big bulls are going to be smarter at it than a rag bull. So now you got to look at these maps and it's like, okay, where are these points where these bulls feel safe? Where is the least amount of predation? You know, that's again, it's back being observant. If you're an area, you got trail cameras, you know where the mountain lines typically cross. Mountain lines are actually patternable too. People don't know this, but mountain lines, I've seen mountain lines cross the same spot multiple times. Wolves are the same way. Elk figure this out too. And so they find out, okay, well,

It seems that this is a spot I don't hardly ever see wolves cross through. And now you're looking at the trail systems. You're looking at the road systems. It's like, okay, there's not a lot of road systems. There's not a lot of trail systems in there. These big bulls pull in these really dark timber holes, at least where we're at, and on these benches. So now it's like, okay, well, these are the areas where I'm going to find this bull. And you're going a lot based on faith here because you don't hear a bull bugling, right? Right.

And, but it means that maybe you got trail cam photo of a big bull in the area. It's like, okay, well he's on this mountain somewhere, but where is he going to be? And so I'll pick a spot like that on a bench. And we talked a little bit about the Elmer thud technique. I've covered a lot of country at first. I'm covering a lot of ground, but if you have a big herd bull and he's done rutting, he's only going to cover just a couple acres. As long as he's not getting any pressure whatsoever and he found a very safe spot,

He's got a bench just covered in his scent, covered in his tracks. And so, and this is, and this is if you don't have snow, you got to find a bench like that. And as soon as I, you know, I'll run these benches on foot. As soon as I cut one of these benches where I catch a whiff of elk, I slow the freak down and it's time to really start picking apart the timber. And then we go to the art of timber pounding, something that our family grew up doing a lot because 80% of our country is in timber, 50 yard shooting range and under.

So then you're walking really slow and you're really, you're trying to keep your eyes up, but you're also looking down too a lot. You're trying to check what tracks are. It's like, okay, well, there's a big bowl track in here. I can smell him. He's been living in here. And now you're just slowly walking on that little bench. It could be a two acre, it could be a five acre bench on the side of a mountain. You just side hill really slow and you're just taking a couple steps and you're peeling apart the timber.

And you're not looking for a big bodied elk. I think that's what a lot of people are looking for. It's like you're hiking like, oh, there's an elk. Like, no, you're looking for, it could be a piece of hair. It could be an eyeball, an ear, part of a rack. You take a couple of steps and you're peeling them out. Also taking consideration, and I have, this sounds weird and it sounds unrealistic, but I have smelt an elk down. I've cut, this actually happened in New Mexico.

I was in New Mexico, timber pounding in the junipers. And I smelled elk and Trav did too. And I was like, which way is the wind blowing? And we saw the direction of the wind blowing. So we started following the wind and we found the bull.

That's awesome. So an elk are smelly animals. Yeah, a bull really smells pretty bad. I'm not saying that I have an incredible sense of smell like a dog. I don't. It's just the fact that elk smell. Yeah. And so if you got like a wind, and it's happened, I've done this twice actually. That worked on me twice where I smelled an elk, I saw where the wind was blowing and I followed the wind. And so I used the wind to my advantage, you know, as an elk would to his. Yeah.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. And again, you're following that scent and you're looking in the timber.

And you're just, you're taking a couple of steps and you're just peeling apart with a pair of binos. Now, again, we go back to saying, well, why did my scopes just fine? Why don't I just use my hunting scope? The reason why I like a pair of binos is you got two eyes in the scope. It's a big, wild, it's a big view. It's almost like looking through a TV, right?

Well, what I like too is as you're looking with your binos, as you focus at different points through the timber, some of those branches just disappear as your focus changes. They kind of blur out. And then let's say if you're focusing on something 50, 60 yards, anything in the foreground just kind of blurs out. So you can kind of look through those little brushy pockets and kind of see an elk there. Exactly. Yeah.

And you brought up a really good point there in the sense that, yeah, because sometimes I remember that where like I'll be looking at brush close by and then all of a sudden you zoom out and all of a sudden you see eyes staring at you. The other thing we talked about is I've had a bull where I would walk in the timber and I know I'm getting close to a bull. I can smell them. And it doesn't mean I'm following their wind, but I just like, I know they're on the bench somewhere. So I'm just walking really slow, looking all around me. And on a cool morning where it's like 35, 40 degrees, I'll see steam coming

I'm like, I see steam right there. And I'll look at my binos and I saw it was a steam coming out of an elk's nose as he was breathing. And so you're looking for very small detail. You're not looking for this big bodied elk. The one time where I really failed at timber pounding, I was with Travis. I remember this. It was actually really funny where I was walking this bench and all the leaves of that area were yellow.

Yeah. And we were walking really slow, as slow as I possibly could go. And I should have pulled up my bionics. I did not. I looked to my left and I see yellow and I'm like, oh, that's brush. And I looked to my right. Travis grabs my head and he, oh, sorry. Hopefully I didn't make any noise doing that. He turned my head to the left and he's like, I'm like, yeah, I just saw that yellow brush. And that yellow bush gets up in a six point bolt, takes off running. Oh,

Oh, man. It was 35 yards. Oh, man. That just, to me, it was so broken up to where it looked like just a little bush. Yeah. But I failed there. If I would have pulled up my binos and look, I would have seen hair. I would have known that was a bull. So utilize those binos are really important. Always have that in the timber. Most people that I know hunt the timber don't even care about binos because like, I don't need it. I'm not seeing long range. I'm only seeing 50 to 75 yards. You're missing a lot of important detail.

If you're bumping animals, you're moving too fast too. That's the other thing. It's the same with mule deer. If I'm bumping mule deer multiple times, I'm like, the goal is you want to spot the animal before it takes off running. If you're spotting multiple animals moving the timber before they take off running, you had a chance to shoot them, you're moving the right pace. Right. You can't move faster than your eyes. It's easy to out-hike your eyes. I love that. That's a very good point. Yeah.

I find, cause I sometimes I'll get in a hurry and I'll find myself doing exactly that. And I'll like, Hey, slow down. Like I'm out. I'm, I've never put it in those kinds of terms before, but out hiking my eyes or out walking my eyes. Like you have to have your eyes like cover the canvas, the whole area before you take your next steps. Exactly. And so that's how I would hunt a timber pound, like timber pound, a big bull like that. And I don't, like I said, I don't care if, if that country you're hunting is 90% openings. Yeah.

there's going to be a hole that big bull knows where to hide and you got to find them, especially on a general tag. Now, again, some people be like, well, no, I've seen them hit agriculture field. I've seen them. And it's like, okay, well, how's your predation? Well, how's the hunting pressure? I can tell you for a fact that, uh,

They're like, oh yeah, like, yeah, we don't have, oh yeah, we don't have, I mean, it's, they only give out 50 tags in that unit. So sure, you're going to see elk, you're going to see big bulls running the unit, running the openings because they've, their safety is different. They're not, they don't feel like they have to go in those places. Right. But like when we're in an area like us where, I mean, you can attest to.

We're in a very predator infested area. Oh yeah. And it's also a general tag for residents. Any residents can pick up a tag and that's most of Idaho, most of the state of Idaho and Montana as well. And also other states. So these elk are going to pull themselves in a place where they feel safe. You got to realize you kill an elk that's eight years old. He's had to survive eight years of predation and hunting pressure. He's got it figured out by now.

And so you got to figure him out and you got to beat him at his own game. But I feel like that's pretty good at covering a post-rut bull, but I want to talk about snow conditions too. Do you have anything else to add to that? Well, I was going to ask a question before we move on to that, which I think will segue nice into snow conditions. I have a listener question. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. The listener says, when hunting those late season bulls, where do I locate the bull and

On a cold day versus a warmer day. Do bulls bed on the sunny slopes when it's really cold versus when it's warmer, do they bed in cooler slopes? That's a great question. So studies show that a bull actually has a better chance in staying warm than he has a chance of staying cold. It takes less energy to stay warm. So when it's hot out, an elk actually struggles more.

than in cold conditions. The only reason why we see an elk in the springtime look like he's a skeleton is just the fact there's just a lack of food source. But if he had the food in the wintertime, he'd be fine. Winter's great. Like they grow the fur out. So, um, but yeah, so if we're to compare the difference on a hot sunny day, let's say we're on a warm October, right? It's a warm October, which by the way, really sucks.

They're not going to be feeding much during the day. Or if they do feed, it's going to be in that heavy, thick timber. Think of where the sun is. Find a hole where the sun doesn't hit much. It could be a north slope or it could just be a really steep draw where just the sun doesn't get it. An elk wants to steal cool. Like I said, he'll find a spot that he feels, if he feels really good and safe and he's not getting bumped around a lot, he will stay less on one acre.

piece of ground and just stay there the rest of the season that's why it's so hard to find them it could also be cliffy area it could just be an area that's just hard to access and they could still be hitting those open those openings to feed but beans that nobody's able to get back there he's feeling pretty safe so that's one thing to think about now also think about this rain now rain

There's a combination of like, does rain bed an animal down to the storm? It does. But let's say you have two weeks of rain. Most of my October timber pounding experience is full on rain gear.

And I'm pounding the timber. And elk are getting up and feeding and bedding down throughout the day. They're staying nice and cool. That rain's great. It's like, imagine an elk just sitting in water. He's just getting rain on all day long. So they're moving throughout the day. What's a great thing too with rain, it's actually one of the best times of timber pound because it covers your sound and it covers your scent. We have really heavy rain. I just move right in on elk.

I'm not sitting there focusing on my wind as much because that rain is just knocking it right down. You can sneak right on an elk. Also, the old leaves on the ground, the pine needles, it just all soaks up and it's almost like walking on a pillow in the sense that it's not making any sounds. You can walk through that dry stuff and you're not getting the cracks. You can sneak right up on elk. What happens if you're really close to an elk all of a sudden? You feel like he's right there. It's okay to

It's okay to, we talked about this earlier too with a bugling bull and you're sneaking in on them. It's okay to do a couch rip here and there. But the mistake that I've made in the past is giving out your location. Sometimes you're better off not giving out your location. If you feel like, if you know exactly where that bull is,

Like don't need to give out your location. Although I've done this too, where I'm like, I feel like an elk is right here. Like he's right here somewhere. I just can't see him. Sometimes as simple as a cow call can just get him to like show himself. Cause he could be hiding in a brush patch. You don't even know it. All of a sudden you cow call and he gets up out of his bed to look at you. It's just enough to like give you a shot. Now, are you going to hear a bugle? No, you're not going to hear a bugle. It's, you're just expecting what you're trying to do is you're going to, you're trying to bring curiosity in him. You're trying to get him to step out and see you.

I do that same technique with mule deer and grunt tubes. But rain, yes. Now let's talk about cold conditions. What I love about really, really cold weather is it does keep them feeding more, keep them feeding later. And so if there's a bull, like a big bull, and he's, like I said, he's in a thick timber patch and he's bedded down. Let's say there's a clear cut nearby and with a lot of feed.

I may notice that bull. I've seen the tracks all over the clear cut where it could be a clear cut or a burn where the habitat is just perfect. You have everything they need to feed out there, but you're seeing their tracks, but they're not there. Well, he's obviously feeding at night.

It's nice with a really cold weather snap is it makes them feed a little bit longer. Maybe they don't got their winter coat in all the way yet. So they're moving more. They're moving more. They're feeding more. I mean, you got to really compare it to people too, right? I stay pretty dang warm when I move. Like I could be in pretty, it could be pretty cold weather and I'm a thin skin guy. I don't have a lot of body fat on me. So like I have to move a lot to keep myself warm. If I stop, I get cold and I have to throw layers on.

You know, it's like an elk. It's like, okay, he still has his coat on, you know, like his early fall coat. And you get a crazy winter storm that kicks in, you know, in October. Well, they're going to be feeding quite a bit. And you definitely see a difference with that when you get those cold snow snap or that cold snap. And it doesn't have to be a snow. It's just as cold. Cold keeps them feeding longer in the day.

But again, most of the time when I'm killing these bulls, I'm killing them in their bedding area. If you're 100% relying only on their food source and where they're feeding during the day or at night, you're limiting what you're doing. So learning to hunt their feeding and their bedding grounds, it kind of utilizes more techniques in how to hunt them.

Yeah, I found that in the past when I just focused on their feeding areas, so I'm going to go sit and watch this hillside, whether it's just a brushy hillside or maybe a clear cut, whatever. You can sit there for several days and not see a thing. Conditions would have to be just right for to catch one of them bulls in daylight hours in one of those spots, especially if it's easily accessible. So I love that point you brought up like that.

that's just a portion of the portion of the day. You would focus on that, but then you move into their bedding areas. Where are they going to spend most of their day in their bedding area? Yeah.

You can, yeah, the feeding grounds, you can catch them at first light or maybe in the evenings utilizing prime time. Get your butt out of bed, being there at first light so that you can catch them in their feeding ground. Yeah. And you may just catch a fleeting glance. It's like, okay, they are here. Where are they going? Watch them bed down. Now where, where am I going to hunt them the rest of the day in their bedding area? Exactly. Yeah. Good point there.

Um, but that's pretty much in the sense of just hunting them there. But, you know, sometimes if you get really far back country where there's not a lot of people, you can catch them a lot more in these brush fields where they are just feeding middle day. And again, if it's hot, they'll bet on a North slope. Even it could be in the opening, but if it's on North slope, it's not getting a lot of sun. They'll bet down midday in the middle of an opening.

I've seen them do that. During a really cold period. Yeah, really cold period. They would maybe go in bed where they get a little more sunshine. Yeah, that can happen too. So, exactly. So, it just really depends on the time of the year and that. And I've watched bulls bed down in clear cuts in cold weather. Sure. As before, if it was like 20 degrees warmer, they would move right to the timber. Right. Yeah.

Now, what about deep snow? So you talked about, you know, bulls with the snow conditions, right? They'll stay in the deep snow up to their belly. I'm like, sometimes that would be a pretty hard, hard to locate if you can't see them from a distance. Yeah.

How are you going to get on bowls like that? That's where you have to kind of dig deep, pull up your bootstraps and really trudge through some snow to find these bowls. What are your thoughts on that? One thing I love about snow, I'll give you the pros and the cons. So I'll start off with the con. Hiking in snow sucks. Sometimes.

Now let's start with, now that's it. That's really the only con with snow. You know what? My favorite time to hunt any animal with a rifle is snow. I can see them better in the snow. I can, I got tracks now. Now, now the question is how do we find a big bull's tracks? And I think that's where it starts first. And yeah, some of these bulls are still pulled up in high elevation. You get enough snow. They finally like it's time to go. It's time to pull down. Um,

you know, unlike a cow on a rag bowl, they're just like, oh, skip a snow time to pull down a big bull. He's just, he's tired. He wants left alone. He just like, I've watched him just like, it almost looks like they're dead. Sometimes if you have a chance to glass up a bowl after the rut, it almost looks like they're dead. They just lay down and they just sleep just like we do eyes down and they'll just sleep for hours. They're just so exhausted after the rut.

And those cows and those rag bulls, you know, they got all the energy in the world. They'll run down to the, oh, snow came in and we're running down the valley floor and we're, we're, you know, eating food in a different location. Those big bulls, it's just like, I'm not, I really don't want to get down here until I have to, you know, especially if they know they're safe up there. Right. So it's like, how do you find an elk like that? Well, even in the thickest timber country, you can still find tracks, right?

Imagine having a snow background inside the timber. You can still glass timber. Like if you're on a steep hillside and you're glassing across another steep hillside with timber, putting your eyes in there and glassing. Now, are you planning to find elk? That'd be great. But a lot of times I'm not even looking for elk. I'm looking for tracks.

And I utilize a fresh snow. If I get a fresh snow, I'm like, I want to be in the mountain all day because I need to find the tracks. You're on the snow and then you get up on the other side of the ridge and I'm glassing across. I'm first trying to figure out where they're at. So I'm not even, sometimes I feel like I'm wasting time just hiking a mountain aimlessly trying to find elk. I'm like, I got snow now. Let me get to the other side, glass across. It could be a spotter or a pair of binos.

But I'm looking for a trail of tracks running through that deep snow. And I've just done enough to where I know the difference between a deer and elk track from a distance. You can see the big enough strider like, yeah, that's pretty big. Most likely that's a bull pulling out of the high country. And then after you do that, if you have time, either A, get over there on those tracks or B, go up there the next day and try to pursue that bull.

It goes back to thinking, oh, well, I'm a day behind on that bull. Well, it doesn't matter. That bull's still tired and exhausted after a long rut. He's just pulling down in some lower elevation. Or maybe he's just moving. Now you just see where he's moving back and forth to where he feeds and beds. But regardless, now you know where his tracks are. Now I climb up on the other side of the ridge. I get on his tracks and then I stay on it.

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at huntthegreatest.com. So now I want to talk about how do you track a bull elk? This is the tough thing and I do the best I can with this.

But one of the best things you can do is not be actually on the track. If you have a chance, track it standing above it. If you can do 10 to 20 yards above the track and follow it. Okay. Sometimes those bulls, predators are following their tracks all the time. So when they bed down, they're bent down facing their tracks.

It's great. If you could catch a bull feeding, then that's a different story. You can, you could track a bull in the timber and he's, you caught him feeding then sweet. You can get him. But let's say, let's say that bull's bad and he's facing right at you. So you're, you're sneaking in that snow and you're trudging through. Well, he's got you spotted. Most likely to me, it's like whoever's moving is the easiest one to spot. Right. Right. He's still, he's going to be hard for me to spot. So

Uh, so if you're right on his track, he can spot you and he'll bump out. So kind of like the best thing to do is you want to try to get above them, above those tracks and try to follow him. If you can, if you can stay like 20 yards, that's like ideal. And you want to be above it. It seems with elk and deer, they always expect predation to come from below. So if you try to stay below the tracks and follow them, I feel like also he's going to have a better chance of spotting you. You always want to be above the tracks.

Gotcha. But then the other thing, so it's like, and then again, it goes back to like you're moving. Remember this bull, he's not planning on moving a lot. He has no reason to. He's just trying to feed and bed down. And so move slow. If you get into a new spot where you're peeking over a ridge and you're in the timber, like you're really scanning that timber as hard as you can and trying to find a bull bedded. And then what typically happens if things don't go right

that bull will start to move. He feels that he's being followed. He starts to move. And sometimes he's not running. He just feels like, I feel like something's following me. So you'll notice that bull get out of his bed and all of a sudden he starts to move. And then you'll notice a different, this I've seen almost every herd bull do, or every big bull do this.

They'll do a loop where they'll walk in a straight line. It could be 100, 200 yards. It could even be 500 yards. They'll do a loop and get right above and he'll bed down and he looks down on his tracks. Watching his back trail. Working his back trail.

And I, man, I can't tell you how many times I felt stupid where I'd follow his tracks. And I'm like, and then I do literally feel like the old Elmer Thudd, you know, just like, do da, do da, you know, and I do the little stupid walk. And, and then I follow his tracks. I see that back track. I fall back up and I realized all that bull bedded right above his track staring down. He had you. He had me. And then he'd back moving again and he'd do it over and over again. So you want to, again, it goes back to trying to stay above the track. Yeah.

And it's challenging, but the best scenario in this, and my dad's done this, is he's been above the track and he's watched, and when he caught up to that bull, he'd be staring down at his own tracks, waiting for him. In fact, he might even hear...

I wonder if the bull would even hear your dad or you or your dad or you hear the noise, a little bit of noise coming. And then they still focus on that track. It's like, I hear something, but I think it's probably following me. Well, if you have powder. They can't hear much. They can't hear. Powder is the best time to track. It muffles sound. You can sneak right up on animals with powder snow. Another time of the day that is really nice to track and it really gets rid of scent is let's say you get a good snow.

And then it warms up and all that. Have you been in those situations where all that snow is falling out of the trees? It's just noisy and dripping. It's noisy and dripping. And I've walked right up to mule deer. I've walked right up to elk on days like that. Those days are awesome. Yeah. It doesn't matter if the wind's blowing right at them. That scent, it just goes right to the ground. Well, there's a lot of movement in the forest too because you have like these limbs that have some snow and then the snow melts and then it'll make a whoosh and then that limb will wiggle. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great time to track. If you're on a bull track, just stay on it. And you can move pretty fast on them at that point because there's just so much movement in the trees. Like you said, the branches are moving. That was actually, maybe you've seen that video where that mule deer sniffed Travis's pants. Yeah. There was a buck chasing a doe and they just went right at the trap, sniffed his pants. Everybody's like, what scent walk did you use? What type of scent control did you use? Nothing. It was just, that was the conditions. It was just perfect where...

all the scent and we were moving and everything and they didn't see us it's the same thing like that's a really good day to kill bull elk in the snow so really utilizing the snow is really good like i said montana has a november rut which you're guaranteed to get snow now where i hunt our season pretty much ends before november so you're just kind of hoping that you get an early snow for that um

Again, I've made the mistake of just walking too fast, following tracks and thinking they're on the move. And then I bump them. And it's like, when you do that, you're moving too fast. You got to slow down. Are they always looking at their back track? Not always. If they feel safe in their area and they've not been chased around for a while, you can catch them just laying down, looking a different direction. But you just always have to expect that. Like a bull, you get an old bull, he's racing while he's alive. And all elk are stinky.

So you got to imagine this bull has with the stinky as he is, he's survived wolves. He's survived mountain lions. Don't think that a big bull doesn't get killed by mountain lion. You know, so I know some of you may not see this, but behind you, there's a really big bull. That's a, it's a skull and it's actually a mountain lion kill. Young female lion killed that bull. And it's like, wow, a mountain lion can kill a big bull pretty easy.

Doesn't have to be a big lion. So mountain lions are still considered a pretty big predator to elk. Right. Wolves are obviously the worst. I've got a question. Yeah. So as you're tracking this elk, how do you know if he's...

walking with purpose or if he's feeding along the way and how do you know is there any indicator if he's going to bed down yeah usually if they're meandering when i say meandering you'll see them like they might walk to the left they're feeding they walk to the right they feed it could be on moss on a tree it could be brush you can see him kicking it up that's a good indication he's not walking a straight line but it's a purpose he's walking a straight line

When it's a real purpose, you see those strides get a little bit wider, longer. He's starting to know he's followed. You see those strides get even longer. You're like, uh-oh, I think he knows I'm on to him. Right. See those strides. But the best thing to notice is you'll see...

And I think I told you this yesterday. There was a time we wish we were like, oh my gosh, this would be so cool. We just, I think it was Travis. I was with him in Montana. He just filled his elk tag like a week prior. And so we're out hunting mule deer and the deep snow and it's elk season too. But like I said, he doesn't have an elk tag anymore. There was a big bull track.

big bull track and he and we just like kind of curiosity we're just like we're just following the bull track for just a little ways and we saw him bed like 12 times he just he would feed bed down feed bed down like oh my gosh i wish we had the tag you know because that's you know he was pretty obvious he was just oh yeah but he just the high country just pulled him out we got a deep snow in the high elevation he just was pulling through

And moving down, he's kind of forced out of there. Although the rag bulls and cows already pulled down, he was still a little bit higher. At that time, I was actually really surprised that bull was still up there. I'm like, wow, that, that bull has been, I mean, he's been in deep snow for a while. Um, but then also too, comes back to where there are a lot of country, the higher elevation, the less timber there is too. Right. Right. So you get up higher, there's the trees are more sparse.

Some of those elk do feel safe up high. And a lot of the predators aren't running up high anymore. They're falling the majority of the game at the base of the mountain. Right. And so you do catch big bulls in open country, like in the openings in knee-deep snow or plus. You can catch them up there too. That was my, I mean, how awesome would that be, you know, to do that, to find a bull like that. And so that is also a possibility too. There's a lot of options in how to hunt elk that time of year.

Now, here's one of my biggest peeves or biggest nemesises is

of hunting elk in snow is finding the right snow conditions. It feels like the day that if I'd have been there a couple of days earlier, I'd have had that beautiful powder. But now I get there and it's like melted and froze and melted and froze. And that's pretty crusty. It's pretty noisy. You're not going to, you're, you know, this is just a fact. You're not going to fall an elk on that. I mean, you're better off trying to glass, trying to find them in a spot where maybe catch them in the opening.

You're just going to bump out. You're just going to bump out. And you're better off waiting for better snow conditions. Yeah. I really watch the weather closely. I'm looking for a window too. And I think it's just my older age. I think just when we're older, we also are like a big bull, right? Where we don't want to waste our energy on bad days. Right. If I have a week old crusty snow, I don't even...

And if I know that I have more hunting season, if I have a couple of days left, I'm like, I have no choice at this point. I just have to go out in the woods. Right. But if I have like another week or two of hunting season and I know that we're going to get some more snow for like some weather fronts, we're just going to wait for another weather front to come through. Yeah. Um, again, like I said, it's just like, you're trying to find a window. It's like, okay, there's my window time to get up there and I'm not going to burn myself out before it gets good.

Yeah. But you can sit there for a week on, on bad snow conditions and you're just spinning your wheels. You're just wasting time. Yeah. That was, and again, I, I don't mean to, um, jump back to mule deer too, but with muleys, like last year I was, it's a, you know, it was a month long hunting season in Montana, but I was fogged in. There was a lot, like there was probably about 10 days of straight up fog.

And I just knew that I was going to be wasting my time. So I like, okay, well, I'll catch up with work. And then when I see that we're getting a, we got a window and I'm, I'm fine with hunting snow or rain, whatever. It's just, you can't see in fog. It's just, if you have thick fogs, you're screwed. You're not going to see anything. And so now I have time to move in. I found my window.

But what's good with old snow? So I just talked about the cons about old snow. Here's the pro. We talked about glassing. If you have the chance, get on the other side of a ridge and glass in that open timber if it's sparse enough.

You see, you kind of see patterns with the elk, right? Maybe a bull is living in the area. You'll know, is he passing through? Is it A, is he passing through? Or B, is there an elk living in there? You'll see a pocket of just a whole bunch of tracks. It may look like there's a herd of elk in there, but it's maybe just one bull just going around and just feeding around. Every day, just doing a little different route. Yeah, just a little, yeah.

And so that's a great thing with old snow is being able to do that. Now, does it mean you should climb over there and then try to bump them out? Maybe it's not the greatest, or maybe you got a long range opportunity. It's like, okay, well, he's living in there. Maybe I just need to sit here all day. Like I, I I'm hunting. I want to utilize my time wisely. Maybe you just need to wait there until you see him come through. I've, I've, I have long ranged elk and deer in, in open timber.

When I mean open timber, I mean, it could be thick, even thick with brush. But when all those leaves fall out of the tree, it could be an alder field. It could be a combination of trees and alders. When the leaves are out of the alders, you can see right through it. I have long reed. Our family, I mean, I...

I want to say I have, but my little brother, he's long-ranged elk and alders. I've long-ranged muleys and alders. They feel safe. They think, oh yeah, I'm hidden. You know, the brush is head hot over head high. They feel safe. But then when you're looking across on a hillside, you see them and they're just like, dude, you're a sitting duck. Like you don't realize it. And that's the same with big bulls too. Sometimes you're like, oh, I'm hidden in this brush. No, they're not.

And you know what I'd rather do? I would not want to pound those alders. I'm like, I'm just going to wait for them to step out for a shot. Even if I have to sit here all day. So there's a lot of different ways in doing it. And like I said, I do really like having snow conditions. It does help tracking. You have tracks, you can see what's going on as much versus you don't have snow. I mean, you can still find tracks, but there's a lot. You have to pay attention to a lot more detail.

And you just don't have that snow background to spot an animal. It's just so easy to spot an elk or a mule deer with a snow background. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's there. They blend in so good when there's no snow. Like you could just, if you're not like really good with, with your glass and good at spotting animals, they can be really tough. But with snow, well,

man they really pop out it makes the job spotting a lot easier it does and they can still hide in snow but definitely like it's like if they're moving you're like oh yeah there you are yeah absolutely yeah well i got a question off instagram here and um the question is what calls are you using to call in elk in late season i'm not using any calls i'm not even being one

I'll run a cow call to a stop an elk. Sometimes if I'm just pulling up and maybe, maybe he's behind, like, let's say I got an elk spot in the timber. He's 50, 75 yards. And I just need him to like step out for a shot. Like he can't see me. I can't see him. I'll cow call, see if I can get him to step out. Or it could be a stop an elk, right? Elk takes off run. Bull stops. That's the sound he recognizes. Like, oh, I remember that sound. Turns around broadside. Boom. You know, get a shot.

Another thing, long range shooting. Sometimes it's like, okay, I'm set up, I'm prone. This bull is about ready to walk out in the open. I can see him in the timber. He's going to walk out. I got a good window to shoot him. Bull walks out. You could throw a bugle. Stop him with a bugle. The only time I'm using calls post-rut, if they're not talking, is to stop them or just control them in some way, shape, or form, but I'm not calling them in.

I love that. A lot of new hunters, I think, that just don't know, you know, about the timing of the rut or how elk vocalize throughout the year.

I get this, that same question a lot. You know, what kind of bugles should I be doing, you know, during late season? But, but yeah, I agree. We're not trying to call in elk. And especially in the late season, we're probably not even going to hear, try to locate elk with a bugle. That time has passed.

Now, that doesn't mean elk won't be bugling on their own sometimes in that later season. And when they do, that's a great time to capitalize. But again, we're not trying to call them in. We're trying to close the gap. You let them give away their location and then move in on them. Yeah, pretty much. Yep. Follow those steps. You'll be successful.

Every time. Just kidding. Well, and I think one of the biggest things too is like that you haven't touched on is like not giving up. So it's super easy in that post-rut season to give up. Like, man, I feel like I've been walking forever. Man, I don't know. I just haven't found any elk sign. I think I'm going to turn back. But like you said, here's something to key in. Those

bulls will live in a one acre spot. You know, they have some water, they got some food and they got some safety right there. They're not moving. They're gonna try to sit there. They're gonna try to gain back some fat before the winter snow start coming. They're not gonna move. They're tired. They're just trying to heal up from the rut. It's gonna take a lot of boot leather and a lot of glassing, depending on the kind of country you're in, but just trying to locate those elk, trying to find that elk to hunt. So, and then like you talked about,

On the snow part, walking in snow sucks. It's difficult. It's hard. I think what I found for myself walking in snow is if I try to get in a hurry and overdo it, then I sweat myself out and I overdo it. And then I'm exhausted. I'm just like, all right, I...

i i just kind of kind of a flash in the pan i just did two way too much too early it's more of like an endurance thing like take it easy take your time move move to at a pace that you don't over sweat overexert and don't move too quickly too quickly where you're going to bump those elk yes exactly because you have to stay in the woods right you got to stay in the game if you want to kill them and if you get discouraged and give up and go home well you just ate your elk tag exactly and

And then, of course, I was joking about like it works every time, you know, right? Yeah. 25% of the time works every time. It works every time. Right. Yeah. Right. And there's always something. These are great, great tips and tactics. And, you know, they can be modified, you know. There's not always the perfect rule. You know, there's always, you know, an exception to every rule. But this is a very excellent baseline. I love the detail and how you laid it all out and everything.

And I appreciate that, that I hope that helps our listeners a lot. I know it's helped me a lot because sometimes I find myself, you know, spun out and like, you know, when you talked about snow conditions and like crunchy, crusty snow versus powder snow and where elk may want to feed or deer want to feed, you know, that, that was like a big aha moment for me. Cause I was like,

you know, I think we even talked about this, like, yeah, some of the deer in my spots, you know, one year they'll be up in that really deep snow and the next year. And you're like, oh, it could be the snow conditions. And if I think back, it's like, oh yeah, it's,

They moved out because it was really crunchy and they're having a hard time finding food where as the powder snow, it's easy to eat. Do I have time to share a story? Yeah. Yeah. We got, we got a little bit of time. Okay. So, and this is, this is probably a really good to narrow down. This was not snow conditions, by the way. So this was actually in Wyoming and it was an area with a lot of hunting pressure, you know? So right off the get go, I was trying to be selective. I'm like, okay, I drew this tag. So I'm going to go into Wyoming, but as a resident, it's a lot easier to get the tag.

Wyoming. So anyways, first couple of days, you couldn't even, and I'd say 60 or 70% of this unit was open and there was just a lot of timber. But it was just like at first, like the day before season kicked in, there was, we were seeing elk all over these open country. We stopped by day two, we stopped seeing elk in openings morning and night. They were just no longer going out in the openings to feed in the day. Right.

And so Travis and I said, well, let's go back to our roots in timber pound. And so we really had to pick apart the map, right? There's still like a lot of timber. So it's like, okay, well, not every timber patch has elk in it. So where do we find where our odds are best to find elk? Well, just scouring the unit and learning about everything, there was this spot that was quite interesting.

Where we saw that at the base of the mountain, people come up to hunt elk. We saw a road system. On top of the mountain, we saw people hunting the top of the mountain. There's road systems in there. Right in the center at this particular elevation, there was not one road system going through. There's a lot of roads on this mountain, a ton. It almost seemed like everywhere you drive,

There was, you can get to it by a pickup or a four-wheeler. Right. But we saw this one section of the mountain where it was just like, there's this timber seam that ran all the way across the mountain. There's roads. This is a place I've never hunted before. So this is not like, oh yeah, I've watched the oak for all these years. It's like, no, but I'm utilizing my exact techniques that I talked about.

So Travis and I were like, okay, well, obviously hunters have that, like they hike a little bit, they put in their punt pressure and they get out. Well, now the elk, in our opinion, we're like, okay, I bet you those elk are just stacked in there. Right. From, from the punt pressure below and below, it just kind of puts them right in the center. So Travis and I, okay, all day long, we're just going to timber pound, just like what we do in our timber country.

We did that and we were jumping. We were bumping elk all day long. And I ended up killing a nice bull out of there. Just like I just like, we'd go in the timber. It's like, oh, there's a bull. Nope, not the one we're after. Oh, oh, there's a bull. Nope, not the one we're after. Finally, probably about two o'clock in the afternoon, I saw the bull I wanted and I killed it.

And then talking, you know, to other people like, I haven't seen an elk in a week or two, you know? And it's like, it's just, they didn't know how to hunt it. Right. Now this is, this goes to the same concept to a mule deer I killed in Colorado where there was a lot of hunting pressure. I stayed in contact with a bunch of people, you know, where I killed a nice mealy buck. Other people are like, oh, like stuck in red. I love your videos. I was like, yeah, I want to, I'm curious. Cause this is the first time I've ever hunted this unit. I want to stay in contact with you and see how your success was.

And again, it's one of those units where there's a lot of timber and there's a lot of openings. So they, afterwards I contacted them and they're like, I was like, how did you go? Oh, I just couldn't find mule deer. It's like every day there was less and less mule deer. I just couldn't find them in the openings anymore. And this is a place with a lot of hunt pressure. Right. I'm like, well, did you think of hitting the timber? Like, well, I'm sure that would, you know, they just thought like if they were there, they would have seen them feed. Right. But also in the mule deer, although I said like mule deer do like naturally mule deer feel safe in open country. Right.

As soon as those gunshots go off, they know that they feel safer in the timber, the height from those gunshots. And it goes back to that too. It goes back to your techniques in timber pounding. Because people limit themselves on just, I'm only going to glass. If I can't see it from the pickup, I'm not going to go after it. You're not using all the techniques that you could possibly do. You can make, I don't want to say that every arrow has a big monster bull elk.

But there's a lot of units that people neglect and don't think they're there. Right. It's because they don't see them. And you and I both know, you and I both hunt country where there is big bulls still around. There's just few and far between and you just have to know how to hunt them. Yep. And so I just thought I'd share that story because I felt like that was a really good prime example of like most people wouldn't know what to do in that situation. And we just being, knowing that our tactics, it worked for us. This is an area I never hunted before.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I think, I think that for me, the takeaway of this is learn elk habits, behavior, understand what they eat and understand how they react to hunting pressure. And you'll, you'll be able to find them during rifle season. And this is some really great knowledge. Now it's time, you know, this fall,

I hope our listeners get a chance to go out and put this into practice. Listen to it again if you need a refresher, but don't give up. You're going to find success, and it may take you a couple years. You've been hunting since... For how many years? Cash. Since I was allowed to, so age 12. Idaho was like, okay, you got to be 12 to hunt. Now I'm 34, so if I actually...

I think I did. So I did count the other day and I just, the only way I was able to count how many elk I have killed is I just, I have a pile of bugle teeth and I've counted 22 pairs. So I've killed 22 bull elk in that time. And some years I've killed three elk and some years I've, I was hunting Alaska and I didn't kill elk at all.

But yeah, so for me, I'm still, I consider myself pretty young still. Right. 34 years old, but killed 22 bulls. Travis killed 24. I talked to him. I just asked him, you know, just like, what's your number? But again, I'm not the type of person who notches my belt.

But I'm just kind of saying like, yeah, I've hunted a lot of bulls. And I'm not always a shooter either. So although I've killed 22 bulls, it doesn't mean that I haven't seen more elk die. Either I'm helping my brother, helping my little brother, vice versa. Travis has helped me kill big bulls. We've helped my little brother kill big, you know what I mean? We're just, our family's really close together and we've watched a lot of stuff die. Yeah.

Yeah, you guys have been successful for a lot of years. I think it took a few years to develop this system of understanding and finding the elk and knowing how to hunt them. So for our listeners, don't get discouraged. If the first time

first year you try to apply these tactics you go out there and it's like well I got I did better but maybe I didn't notch a tag it's going to take a little while to develop that system and get that gut feeling and understand where those elk are going to be and where you can shoot them so and then could I mention yeah so our camps that we do yeah it also yeah please and so

We've had a lot of people ask us about, you know, how to hunt elk. And sometimes it's really tough to teach people online. So we've actually just started this year doing an elk camp where people can come out there. We just, we made it really simple. The name is Stuck and Red Elk Camp. And we've had people come out and we teach them how to elk hunt and teach them several different tactics, teach them about long range shooting, teach them about archery. You know, we did the whole teaching people how to use the calls. And so that is an option for you guys if you're

If you want to do that now, I don't have the next one announced for next year, but staying caught, like that follow stuck and rot on Instagram and we will announce it here shortly when we, for, for the next camp. So stay tuned for that. I just wanted to mention that. Yeah, that's great. If you guys really want to learn, we, our goal is we want to cut that learning curve. And the reason I was saying that is you said I was there.

where I was scratching my head and I was like, and it's especially when we lost our numbers, our elk numbers. It's like, okay, well now I have to really learn how to hunt elk because just pounding the mountain and just putting the time alone was no longer helping me. So I actually had to learn, I had to put in not just the time, but I also had to learn and understand what I'm hunting and the behavior of the elk. And so we can teach you there and we can cut that learning curve. It's an investment. Like if what you learn there is going to cut you

Cut your learning curve in half, if not more. And, you know, I've had people, and you've probably heard people say this to you too, I've hunted elk for five to six years and I cannot kill an elk. Even 20 years? Even 20 years? I've had folks tell me 20 years, they've hunted elk for 20 years and they still have a nausea tag. Yeah. And so...

If you guys are in that position, it's, it's, and it's not saying you suck at hunting. It's just, maybe you're just missing a couple of things. Sometimes there's just some fine tuning that we have to do. Looking for that aha moment. Yeah, exactly. And I was there, like I said, I was there. I was, there was a time where I had to learn. There was a time where I didn't notch my tag. I've ate plenty of tags. So, but now I feel like we're really consistent with it. And you know, it's really funny because,

Is that my quality, although we have less elk, my quality and my success has got better. So how interesting is that? That when we had more elk, I was killing less elk. Right. And so it's just, it's just the fact that we've learned how to do it better. Absolutely. Yeah. And Phelps is a proud supporter of those, those elk camps and your wolf camp. And, um, and I appreciate you guys for everything you've done with that. That's been really helpful. Yeah.

Yeah, happy to help any way we can. So we like to support people that we believe in. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Anyway.

Well, thanks a lot for coming on. I would like to remind our listeners, if you guys have questions for the podcast, whether it's for the host or for maybe one of our subject matter experts, please email us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. Or you can call our super secret number and you can leave a message and let us know. You can leave a message. Keep your message at three minutes or under because if it's over three minutes, the recorder will cut you off.

but record your message, your question, ask your question, and we will play your question on the air and answer it to the best of our abilities. So thanks again, Tom. Always a pleasure. I've had an incredible week up here or incredible three days up here looking for wolves and trying to try to notch a wolf tag with you. And man, I hope, hope we can connect again soon and maybe on some kind of another adventure. So thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. And

Had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun. I mean, obviously we always want to notch a wolf tag. We know how challenging it is. Yep. Yep. It's, it's, uh, it's not easy. It's not easy. It's the same thing with elk hunting though. It's like you put in your time. You're going to, it's not if it's when you're going to get a wolf. Yeah. That's a hundred percent. Yep. All right. Thank you.

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