Ep. 34: Talking Turkey with Jordan Budd
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Welcome back to Cutting the Distance. Today's guest grew up in Nebraska as a ranch kid and started hunting deer, turkeys, and calling coyotes at a very young age. In high school, Jordan Budd taught herself how to run a camera and begin filming her friends and her own hunts, which grew into profession when she started filming the Western hunts for sheep, elk, and mule deer.

This also allowed her a lot of time in the field and was a great platform for her to test equipment. So along with filming the hunt, she also started to write gear reviews. This has all led to her current position with MeatEater, producing content, testing gear, and now she is the co-host of the Gear Talk podcast that she works with Yannis Patelis on. Aside from the media, she also runs an outfitting business in Nebraska on the ranch that she grew up in called Running Water Hunting, where she guides and hunts for deer in Merriam's Turkey. Welcome to the show, Jordan.

Thanks, Jason. Thanks for having me on, man. How's everything going? Things are good. They're warming up. Snow's melting. I'm in Nebraska. How's everything going? Things are good. They're warming up. Snow's melting. I'm in Nebraska currently helping out with some ranch stuff and then getting ready for turkey season. I was a little worried about all the snow we had, but it seems to be melting and been seeing a lot of birds, so I'm excited to get out there.

So you're talking a lot of snow in Nebraska as well as Idaho? Yeah, and it pretty much... I've been here for about a week, and about the time I left Idaho, it really cut loose and started snowing there. So yeah, it's been a little bit of a shift. Yeah, yeah. I've seen pictures, and it looks like people are trying to dig themselves out in a few places in Idaho and Montana. Turkey's...

Turkey's hunting is going to be interesting. I think your snow line is going to be a lot lower, but I'm starting to really worry for our deer and elk. I've seen lots of videos in Utah and Idaho, and people often do some supplemental feeding, so hopefully we don't lose too many. Just pictures on social media as people start to head out in the woods and maybe look for horns, like a few too many deadheads showing up. It's been a tough winter on them.

Yeah, it's been really difficult. But yeah, things are good.

Good, good. So like all of our podcasts, we're going to start off with a few listener questions I'm going to throw at you. And if you have any questions of your own to our listeners, feel free to get a hold of us on social media, send us a message, or you can email us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com and we'll do our best to get your questions aired. So the first question we have is from Alan Rogers. He was asking, what does your layering system typically look like for spring turkey?

So I'll let you take that one on first and see what you come up with. Yeah, so typically here we're looking at like, you know, 30 degrees in the morning, maybe even a little bit colder, and then getting up like into the 50s, we might be hitting 60 degrees.

as we move on in April. So I typically just wear like a mid-weight style pant. The Corgit Guide Pant is what I like to use. And then I like the Wick Hoodie. It's been a staple piece for me in pretty much everything. I really like to have that little lightweight hood on there.

And then I go with like an origin hoodie. So just a mid-weight fleece over the top of that. And then a catalyst jacket over the top of that. That pretty much rounds me out. If it's, you know, like dipping into those 30s in the morning, I'll put like a Brooks vest or like a lightweight puffy jacket underneath my catalyst jacket. But that pretty much...

will get me through that first little bit of coldness in the morning and then it seems to heat up pretty quick and especially for moving. So that's what I use. Yeah, and I'm very similar. You know, Corgit Guide seems to be kind of just my go-to pant. And then if I need to, if it's getting really chilly, you know, maybe throw just a wick layer on under it, you know, just a base layer on.

Um, and, uh, you know, I, I will go to just like my Chamberlain, um, you know, coat, uh, if needed over the top of everything, of course we have to cut our noise. You know, it's a little bit of a noisier piece. So we, we have to be a little bit more cognizant of our movement, but very similar to you. Um, you know, we've got, got the hoodie on. Um, I like to be able to get the wind off my ears, my neck if needed. Um, you know, I used to wear the Klamath hoodie, but now it's switched to the origin is, is things have kind of changed. And then, um,

On top of that, we'll either throw the Chamberlain or if it's not too cold, I'll just stuff it back and carry it around. Usually once the sun comes up, things warm up a little bit. But yeah, very similar. One thing I've been doing also is just like...

in addition to the lightweight hoods, it's just like a gaiter seems to be a little bit of a game changer as well for me because I now use that as my mask, but it also helps like just keep that cold air off of my neck. So I also make sure that that neck gaiter kind of goes with me everywhere. And there's a couple different weights. Yeah, I like the really light one. Is that the one you use?

Yeah, that's the one I use the majority of the time. I do have the heavier one, but usually just that real light one so I can keep it around my neck most of the time. I use it for my mask now as well when it comes time to turkey hunting. I'll just pull it up and that acts as my mask. Even though the Origin hoodie now does have a mask that comes out of the hood, there's too much movement. I like to be pretty mobile and I usually pull my mask up at the last second so I don't want to be pulling my hood down and

you know, get my hat rearranged as I'm trying to get that mask over. Yeah. So we, it's great setup. Yep. Yep. So yeah. And, and there's places where, where we know in Northeast Washington, we're going to hunt Miriam's and, um, you know, I might dress a little lighter because I know my, my, my,

The first half hour of my day is going to be climbing a thousand feet up to a ridge, you know, or, or a spot. So it's just, it's dependent on where you're at. But I, I usually always similar to big game hunting. I'm going to carry that, that same kit and just adjust throughout the day if I need be. All right. If I need to. Sweet. Next question from David Smith. Should I carry binoculars with me while turkey hunting? And I'm going to kick this one to you, but I used to be,

I'll let you answer, but I used to never carry binoculars. Like either if I hear the bird, I'll kill it. And if not, then I'll see the thing, but I'll see if your answer kind of jives with mine. Yeah. I think some of it depends on where you're hunting. Like here it's, you know, we have wooded areas on the river bottoms, but otherwise it's pretty open and there's like big open openings between the trees. So like,

it's just fairly conducive to glassing so like i'll use glassing a lot even when locating birds from a long distance you know even like the night before we go out or whatever um

But I do carry a set with me, but I just go with like an eight power, lightweight, like really compact. You know, I'm not looking to put them on a tripod and go, you know, like high power on a tripod or anything like that. I'm just looking for something with like a wide field of view, lightweight, easy to carry in my chest harness. And then like,

just be able to give a little look, you know, but, uh, yeah, I don't go too crazy on it, but I do like to carry binoculars.

Yep. I was in the camp of you don't need optics for turkey hunting. They gobble at you. You know where they're at if they're there. But so many times we started getting busted. And then I knew I needed binoculars, but then I didn't want to carry my big, what I would consider my Western hunting binoculars, my big 10x42s or my range finding binoculars or whatever I might have. And so I still went a few more years without carrying them and just kept getting busted. And now I can't imagine turkey hunting without them, whether I'm crossing...

you know, food plots in Kansas and they need to glass like the other timber edge. Cause I can't pick things out. Um, versus, you know, if I'm hunting in, um, you know, more open stuff like Eastern Washington, Idaho, like we'll just sit on a Ridge, you know, maybe, and when those birds are in lockdown and they're just not gobbling, you know, they're just, they're hinned up, they're not going to gobble. Um, we'll just spot them with the binoculars where it's like, you may not have spotted them with your naked eye across the Canyon. Um,

They sometimes are easy to spot, but similar to spotting mule deer that are in tough-to-see areas or in the shade, we're able to just spot turkeys, and that kind of gets us back in the game. Like you, I carry a very small pair of 8x32s. They have a spot in my chest rig. I can still carry my calls. I'm always carrying binoculars with me now when I'm in the turkey woods. Sweet. Yeah, they're nice to have, man. Yeah.

So that kind of wraps up our two listener questions. Once again, if you have questions for us, for my guests, for myself, please email them to us at ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com and we'll do our best to get them on here.

So now we're going to kind of jump into the discussion. We're going to talk, kind of stay in your lane. We're going to talk about gear for turkeys. We're going to talk about seat versus seat pad, turkey vest versus chest rig. We're going to dive a little deeper into optics, ground blinds and all that. But before that, I want you to give me a little bit of the lowdown on the Gear Talk podcast. I'm maybe the worst gearist.

because I don't listen to podcasts, not even my own after I'm done. So I haven't listened to any of the gear talk podcast, but give me kind of the what you're doing, where it's going and what you and Janice hope to accomplish with the podcast before we jump into our conversation. Yeah. So there, you know, there's a lot of podcasts out on YouTube.

different networks now. And a lot of times they're hitting gear on like one episode. But there wasn't a podcast that was really talking a lot about gear. And I think that that's something that people really like is they like hearing your kit and what you're using and it helps them narrow down. There's so many options on the market. Like it helps them narrow down a little bit, you know, of what they really actually need to buy. And that's really...

What we wanted to do with the podcast was just have it be a source for that, you know, consumers can go listen and get a little bit better idea of like what they actually need for an upcoming hunt or,

and what they can get by without and then also just be a really educational platform to how some of this stuff works because a lot of this gear we're using is super it is technical and there's a lot of thought and process that goes into it and new materials that do different things

And we wanted to give a platform to be able to have experts on to talk about breathable laminates and to talk about DWRs for your outerwear and why it's important to wash those because it can revitalize the DWR and just make your clothing perform a little bit better. So that's really...

what the podcast is about. We're doing some stuff. We got some stuff coming up that's going to be really interesting. We got soft shell jackets from, of course, First Light, but we also have them from QU, Sitka, Arc'teryx, Stone Glacier. So we're going to do kind of a

I don't know if like, I don't really think like a head to head, but we're going to go through those jackets, talk about fit, talk about, um, some of the materials that they use and the ideas behind them and just give folks like a, hopefully a place to go that they can be like, Hey, I've been looking at these jackets. Like these are kind of how they fit. This is the difference in some of the materials and just the idea behind like what they built them for. And, um,

So, yeah, we're doing things like that with those jackets. We're going to do pants eventually. We're going to do like backpacks. We're trying to do like a few different things with it, but really it's we really wanted to make it to educate and just, you know, be a source of learning so consumers can like better make a decision on their purchase.

Nice, nice. We talked a little bit before we got started here and I'm kind of like a gear nerd as well, especially early on. And once you kind of, I feel like once I figured out my gear, I kind of just settled in and don't look at the new stuff as much. And that's where I think like a podcast is

like yours, if I was to listen, if I was somebody that hadn't figured out my gear and didn't want to spend a bunch of money like we have in the past to kind of figure it out, you could tune into a podcast like that and just kind of get the lowdown and people that have touched, felt, and used all this gear in the field, maybe save a few bucks and make sure that you're getting good gear that other people have reviewed. Not everything's going to work or fit.

and function like it does for you and Giannis, but I think you can get a pretty good sense on what's going to work. And like I say, it cuts a lot of costs out of trying it all for yourself. Yeah, it's been fun and we've got a lot of good feedback on it. So looking forward to seeing what it does. Yeah, I might have to change my ways and put you guys on like the Spotify playlist so I can have you guys in the rotation.

So no, no. Wish you guys the best of luck. Thank you. It's on the, it's a meat eater brand podcast. It's gear talk and it's hosted by Jordan and Giannis. Go check it out. If you're looking at all their gear reviews, is it a, does it come out weekly or you guys every other week right now? We're in every other week. Yeah.

Yeah, I like that cadence. It seems like sometimes producing these is tough enough to do every other week. I couldn't imagine doing it every week like some of our podcasts. So we'll, yeah, no, really appreciate having you on. So now we're going to jump into some of my discussions with

uh, you know, the discussion I want to have with you because you honestly have a better grasp on some of this stuff like ground blinds that we're going to get into. Um, we've got a good conversation coming up about boots for, for turkey hunting and kind of how I've had to change, you know, the way I think. So we're going to jump into our conversation. The first thing I wanted to talk about is, are you a, a, uh,

a seat person or are you a seat pad person kind of, and is your style run and gun? Or if you're on the ranch there in Nebraska, are you kind of, uh, you know, set up and, and, you know, ground blinds in a, in a high seat, you know, kind of, kind of give me your take on that. And then I'll, I'll expand on it with what, what I found to be the most comfortable setup.

Yeah. So a lot of times, uh, if I'm hunting myself, I'm probably just archery hunting. And a lot of times like we, uh, me and, uh, Leah, my wife, we shot a turkey out of, or just on the ground out in the open with a bow last year. And that was like super fun to be able to do that. But for the most part, like I'm probably sitting in a blind for archery season. Um, but

But if we're, if we're guiding, then I'm like, we're more run and gun with a shotgun. I've mostly been a seat pad person, but now that I've gone to something more like a chest rig, it's, I don't always grab it. I seem to forget it. So I just haven't been using one. And when you were talking about the little chair that you've been using, that's a, I want to hear more about that because I think that's what I need to do.

Yeah. And so I grew up with a new turkey vest every year, every other year. For some reason, you know, the young guy thinking that turkey vests mattered or the butt pad was going to get better. And I still found and maybe it was me being impatient as a younger hunter where maybe I'm finally starting to get a little bit of patience. But that was my biggest challenge.

I think my biggest fault when it came to turkey hunting is I wanted to move. And some of these seat pads, no matter how thick they are, no matter what tree you sit under, I think 15 to 20 minutes in and you're like, all right, my ass is numb. It's going sore. You're rocking from your right to your left. And you're thinking of now you're starting to tell yourself why this plan isn't going to work. And you know what? I should get up and move from this tree.

because it's because you're uncomfortable. And, and I've went through that enough times. Um, went out to my buddy's place and, and, uh,

to hunt in Kansas where we've been hunting a lot, you know, deer and we cut the line, one tree down everything out there. So I have a lot of stories about Kansas, but we go back there and hunt twice a year. Um, my buddy Randy handed me this, this bag that looked just like your normal, um, you know, foldable beach chair, you know, the one you can buy for $15 at Walmart, you know, springtime rolls around, they've got them out in the boxes, but this was a low to the ground that sits maybe two or three inches off and they're built a little bit more sturdy. Right. Um,

I think that brand was like Cabela's. So we hunted out of those and I'm like, man, I could fall asleep under every tree that I sit under. It's just super comfortable. Um, it adjusts to, to a little bit of unevenness and it just was a game changer for me. And it allowed me to be a lot more patient. I think the one I'm using now was like a Browning. Um, I don't remember the exact name, like a Browning strutter hunting chair or something. Um,

It's just it folds out. And now that I'm using a chest rig rather than carry my vest, I just throw it over my shoulder kind of, you know, I don't cross saddle across my back. And that's just something I carry everywhere. And when we go to set up within about 20 seconds, I can, you know, throw the thing out, get it set in and we're we're we're in place. And it's just allowed long sets. And like I said, I'm getting more patient. A lot of our turkey call ins are

are taking 30 to 45 minutes, especially when we're hunting in that time of the year where the toms are just completely henned up and aren't moving very fast and they're kind of moving at their own pace. Those little folding chairs were a game changer for us. And I can't imagine turkey hunting off of a seat pad or a little, we used to have like those little hard seats, like the Cordura was stretched really tight, you know. Those things aren't comfortable either. This is,

this is the best system I've found. So, um, if, if you haven't turkey hunted off of a, uh, a small folding seat and you don't think it would change things too much, I, I highly encourage you to try it. Um, because it's, it is a game changer for me. And like I said, I fell asleep under a tree more than I ever have. Um, you know, in the past, it's just super comfortable. Um, yeah. So,

I ditched seat pad. I'm a seat guy now. I like it. Yeah. And like not to change it from turkeys, but I think calling coyotes, I've seen people use those too.

Yep. That'd be nice. And, uh, we'll, we'll jump into it a little bit on the tick side as well, but I like getting myself like another barrier of protection off the ground. Um, you know, and only giving them four legs to climb up to start to get up, you know, and, and my feet to get on me. Um, so yeah, it just has, it's, it's been a good system. Um,

And, yeah, that's kind of a great segue into seat versus seat pad. And then, you know, with the chest rig versus a turkey vest conversation, what's your system currently? I've never been like a big turkey vest person. I've had a couple and I just...

always seem to end up figuring out how to put stuff in my pockets enough stuff in my pockets to just make it work um but then I started using a chest rig and that's been really nice just to have everything in one spot like I can toss it on I can still get in and out of the pickup with it easy um I don't have to take it off everything's just in one spot and really like when I'm done with turkey season like the thing gets put on the shelf

And then it's like, I pull it off the shelf and pretty much everything is in there that I need. Um, so yeah, that's, that's what I use, uh, FHF, just, uh, the regular chest rig. And then I put in an E4 pouch on the front of it this year, just for a little bit extra space for like my headlamp and stuff like that. Um, yeah, but that's been a, that's been a good system for me.

- Yeah, are you also using, I'm the most unorganized hunter in the world. Like as long as it fits in the pocket, it's good. So when you look at my chest rig, it's two pot calls, my strikers, my locators are all just like

just in there in the bottom right are you using any of the divide like the the striker dividers the shotgun shell dividers and stuff of hf or you just kind of a if it fits it and it zips and you're good to go i like that no i i do use that that turkey i think it's just called like their turkey accessory kit or whatever that velcro is in the inside um one thing that's kind of cool with the diaphragm

divider deal. I can like stick it to the inside, but then with the Velcro, the E4 pouch has a Velcro patch on the outside. And so I can unstick that and I can stick it to the outside if I'm, if I need to just get to my calls more, if I don't want to just keep my thing open as I'm running around. But for the most part, I keep that stuck in, but yeah, I've got it pretty, I've got it pretty organized in there.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I, they sent me all the Turkey accessories and I haven't ran it. Um, but I'm, I'm going to try to do a better job of, uh, you know, setting, setting it up. And I wanted to touch on Turkey vest just a little bit. As I mentioned earlier, I had, I had all kinds of Turkey vests growing up. Um, and, and I got to the point where I had to have 17 pot calls, you know, 14 strikers. I had two, but you know, it's like,

you just had to fill up every pocket. And then when it was time to like, where did I put my scour pad or my chalk? You're like, oh, it's inside the front left pocket, two pockets deep and in the zipper that's in, you know, it's like you couldn't find anything. And so I think it just comes with a lot of experience and learning like, hey,

you probably only need two pot calls max, even though I'm the game call guy, right? Like I need to have calls on me. I need to be promoting them. But you're like, I can probably get away with maybe a box call if I want to use it on this hunt. Is it a windy day? Is it big country? If not, maybe I'll leave my box call at the truck or the side-by-side for that day. So I think it was just like learning that I didn't need to have so much time

stuff on me to turkey hunt. You know, I can leave the truck with three different mouth diaphragms, you know, a couple different strikers, maybe a crow call, maybe a woodpecker call, and my binoculars, and maybe a couple extra shotgun shells. To be honest, I actually just been carrying my three shotgun shells in the gun. And it's, do I really need to bring a whole bunch of backups? Like, if I do my job, keep my shots close, like I shouldn't even need to shoot more than once. So it's just like,

Yeah, I don't need to carry a whole extra box of shells anymore. And the chest rig is just, like you said, it's simple. I grab it at the beginning of the year. It's got everything I need in it. And I don't have to carry this big, cumbersome turkey vest. The one thing...

I wouldn't say it's a knock on the chest rig. It's just one of the things I don't have a good solution for is carrying a little bit of water. I'm not going to lie. We're not hiking mountains for turkeys, but it's like, all right, you've been away from the rig for three or four hours. I'm thirsty. What am I doing for water? And usually that's just a little cheap disposable water bottle just shoved in my origin pocket or something. That's what it ends up being. So that's the one thing I miss on the turkey vest, having a spot for water.

And we're going to talk about decoys here in a little bit. But, you know, my turkey vest used to also just hold all of my decoys in the back. And now that we're using, you know, some Dave Smith decoys and whatnot, I don't have the need to carry a bunch of foamies around. So it's like the vest just really doesn't have a lot of utility anymore for me.

Yeah. Yeah. And I will say I'm pretty like, I like turkey hunting. I don't like love, love, love it. So I don't get too crazy. I keep like my calls pretty simple. I have like a pot call and I have mouth diaphragm calls. Even like last year, even guiding people. I don't remember. I think I just like forgot my actual turkey diaphragms.

I called in at least three birds with an elk amperee, dude. Yep. And it works. Like it's super clean. It's a super clean. There's no raspiness to it, but it works. Yeah. I'm always amazed how many people we get sending us pictures in with turkeys killed with our elk calls. They're more comfortable. They don't have to do a whole bunch of professional calling. You know, it just, it works. It gets the job done. And, you know, even though

My job is to make and sell game calls. It's really 90% of the equations, right place, right time, right mood. It's not necessarily... The calling does help and finish them off, but very rarely is the calling making up the majority of... I'm going to word that wrong. The calling isn't a very big piece of the pie when it comes to putting the success together. It's a small portion, and I recognize that.

So optics, we talked about a little bit carrying binoculars. Do you carry like spotters in your truck? Like not with you for sure. If anybody carries a spotter while turkey hunting, I want to talk to you and figure out why. But like in your rig, are you using anything else? Do you bring range finders to maybe just check your range where you're setting decoys up or kind of what do you look at as far as like your optics package while you're turkey hunting?

Yeah, for the most part, you know, I'm just carrying those like an eight power on my chest. And then I will carry a spotting scope in my pickup just to like really sometimes what I'll do guiding wise is I'll go put people in a blind in the evening and then they can just kind of hunt themselves. And then I'll go and do some scouting, try to find birds. And I can, dude, I've picked out birds in trees with my spotting scope from like,

long ways away, like a mile away. Um, and then it just gives you an idea of like, all right, well, those birds are like kind of over there. Like we can probably, you know, slip in this way or whatever. So that has been nice for me. Um, something I'm going to use a little bit more of, uh, this year and not like, I don't want to do a super shameless plug for a SIG, but there, have you seen their, uh, image stabilizing binoculars?

I've looked through them. Yeah. I think, um, at the Western hunt summit, somebody had them last year and looked through them a little bit. Yep. Yeah. Their, their 10 powers are super little and super light. And they're like, if you're handholding all the time, like you are often with turkeys, like that thing is so nice just to steady it up.

Cool, cool. Yeah, and one thing I used to also not carry was a range finder. And my rifle one, you know, I use loophole stuff. So like my 2800 was just too much for turkeys. Like, right, it's not geared up. So I just grabbed my full draw. I think last year I used the four. This year I'll have...

the five, but you know what, just any archery range finder that's good. Um, it short distance ranging. Um, it just helps your setup. You know, when you're, when you're out there, you know, if you're on the edge of a field, your depth perceptions off a little bit, like just making sure you're not shooting too far, your, your setups. Right. Um, so we typically range stuff. And when we set up just real quickly, all right, we can shoot out to that bush. We can shoot to that line. Um, we can shoot 10 yards past the decoys, whatever it may be. And, um,

it's just just so we have some confidence and we're not miss miss you know ranging something by 15 20 yards um yeah yeah that's it's a great thing to carry with you o'reilly auto parts are in the business of keeping your car on the road i love o'reilly in fact the other day i'm not kidding you the other day i went into an o'reilly auto parts looking for a part i needed a different thing that wasn't really in there you know only like tangentially related to what they carry

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This is Brent Reeves from This Country Life. What makes South Dakota the greatest for pheasant hunting? With over 1.2 million pheasants harvested last year, South Dakota boasts the highest population of pheasants in the nation. In fact, you'd have to add up the total harvest from neighboring states just to get that many birds.

There's also millions of wide open acres chock full of different landscapes, meaning the hunt in one county is often completely different from just a few counties over. But what really makes South Dakota the greatest goes way beyond just hunting a colorful bird. It's the pursuit of something more like the camaraderie that awaits all kinds of hunters from all walks of life and partaking in South Dakota tradition over 100 years in the making.

It's about taking the greatest shots and watching your dog work the greatest fields in the greatest lands, carrying on the greatest heritage and making the greatest memories. So what are you waiting for? From the rush of the flush to the stories at the end of the day, experience a thrill like no other. Learn how at HuntTheGreatest.com.

Now we're going to roll into the next question I have for you is on ground blinds, which you, you know, guiding and having customers that you may want to limit their movement or somebody that might not be experienced in the woods. I've never hunted out of a ground blind for turkeys. So what do you feel about ground blinds? What's where are they useful? And then maybe where do they have their drawbacks?

Yeah, drawbacks can definitely be just your ability to move as quick. You kind of have to, and it seems like when I go to hunt in a ground blind, I bring the kitchen sink with me because I feel like I've got to sit there for a long time. But then I always, if they're not moving or something, I always feel like I've got to get out and get after them. So there's a patience factor there for sure.

Um, but I, I like ground blinds for, especially if the birds aren't moving, um, something that, or aren't talking, sorry, if they're not talking, um,

I can set that ground blind up in a spot where I've just seen turkeys go by a lot or something like that. And sometimes like you just got to wait them out. And sometimes like, you know, clients always come in and they want that like gobbler running in from a long ways away and they want to get the whole experience. But the reality is it just doesn't always happen like that. And so you got to be able to adjust that.

So that's where I see ground blinds really coming in. I put them in places where I just know that turkeys like to be or pass through. So if we can't get them talking, that's always a good place to put somebody like in the evenings or the afternoons or whatever. But

Yeah. It's just kind of, they're nice because you can move around. Um, you can move around and kind of have more stuff with you. Like if you think that you're going to, especially, I think like on a really small chunk, um, a property where you can't really, you don't really just want to walk through it and blow it out. Um, just spending a lot of time in a ground blind seems to be like just kind of how the East, you know, more Eastern type hunting is, um, just due to parcel size. So, um,

They can be really nice, but I definitely see where people get impatient and they just don't want to sit there.

Yeah. And then continuing on my me not knowing anything about ground blinds, you can see them for, you know, you see them out there, $129.99 and then you can see ground blinds at $500. Are you of the opinion that you get what you pay for on ground blinds? I know that like the space inside may be different, like the shooting windows may be laid out different. Even, I mean, I'll even give you a chance, like, is there a brand that you like to use or is it more of those just a ground blinds, a ground blind to you?

So I've gone back and forth on this a lot. I think if you're in a spot where it's really windy and you're dealing with a lot of winds, you're going to want a more expensive one. Just it seems like the poles are beefier where the joints like come in. Usually they pop out. Those are just better options.

because the wind just destroys them. That's a huge problem we have here. Like, I have muzzleloader deer hunters in them a lot, and the winds just kill them. Honestly, I've bought a ton of those things, and the double bulls just seem to, like, be holding strong. And it's...

They're expensive, man. They're like 400 bucks. Um, but they've got some, they've got some really cool ones. Now I bought one just this last year for deer hunters that it's like the see through, but you can't see into it. Like the whole, the whole wall in front of you or the whole two walls in front of you, you can completely see through them. Um, but yeah,

they are not supposed to be able to see in. So like, that's super cool too. It's just kind of fun to sit in it. Cause you're not just looking through a tiny little window all the time. That's awesome. I hunted, um, a little bit out of them, um,

They were elevated ground blinds, but the ones in Kansas, they had more of like a metal structure. And then they were screwed down to like a pallet or like a platform. But yeah, those ones are like frustrating because you would have deer running from your right and you could hear them. And then they'd pop in front of you. It's like, man, I wish I could see. It almost like, I don't want to say it took away from the experience, but it did take away from the experience because I was limited. I could only see 90 degrees out in front of me, nothing to my right, but yet...

Yeah, so it would be cool to have like that double bowl system you're talking about where you can actually see through and see everything versus out, you know, strategic windows that you have open. Yeah, yeah, pretty cool. One quick thing, Baronet, there's a company called Baronet that makes a blind called an Aux 5. And instead of four, you know, usually it's a five hub blind. So you have four sides and then your top blinds.

Um, this one's actually a six. So you have one more hub. The thing is huge. Um, so like people with kids, like multiple kids and like they want to sit in and have a lot of room to like, you know, have the kids lay down and stuff like that. Ox five is great. And I think it's like 300 bucks or something like that. So, um,

Thanks for educating me a little bit on ground blinds. Now we're going to jump into boots for turkey. You know, as I got started, it was always you just took whatever boots I was, you know, hunting Western big game in.

Um, and, and those, those kind of got the nod for, for Turkey hunting. But, you know, the more I've learned, the more I've, you know, got the chance to try different boots. Um, I'm turning into more of a, uh, like a little, uh, lacrosse, like arrowhead type guy. Um, it seems like every morning the grass is wet. Um, you know, when, during spring Turkey, regardless of whether it's a clear night or not, uh, what's your boot system, um, uh, for, for Turkey hunting and what do you, what do you go with?

Yeah, so here we're not really dealing with like swampy type stuff in the spring. The ground like hardens up pretty quick. So I'm kind of the same, honestly, just like...

even a flexible pair of boots, like not even really a mountain boot, you know, just like one that's pretty quiet when you're walking, just like a comfortable, nice boot. But if I'm using my like rubber boots and stuff, a lot of times it's really nice with rubber boots because they're warmer in the morning and stuff. They're just warmer. And if you do have to like do a cricker river crossing or something like that, they're just easier to use that with. But yeah,

I have always been like, even for all this ranch stuff, I've always been a muck boot person. Like that's just always what I've bought. Like that always seemed to be the gold standard to me was muck boots. Um,

And, uh, I, I recently, like a couple of years ago, I tried apparel lacrosse that were, I don't remember what they were called, but they were just like a little bulky. Like I, they were pretty much the same as muck. I was like, yeah, okay. That's kind of one of the same. Well, this last year I got the arrowhead model from lacrosse, dude. It's like a different, uh,

situation like it's uh i got the seven millimeter ones they make a lighter one too but it's supposed to be like negative 40 to 40 degrees is what those things are supposed to be good for like cold weather wise and they're so much more comfortable once you put them on it's like a running shoe

Yeah. And that's, that was the reason I always hated rubber boots. You know, growing up, we just probably had the cheap ones where if you walk more than, you know, out to your mailbox and back, you had blisters everywhere and they were just uncomfortable from your, your, your, your heel slipping. Um, I got those arrowhead sports, you know, the same seven millimeter and it's like, I could probably, you know, hike all day in them and not have any issues. I don't know about going up a mountain for too long. Um, but that was always the reason I would just go to go to my, my mountain boots. Um,

And so, yeah, if I know I'm not climbing mountains, if I'm not going to, you know, put on five or six miles on in a morning or a day turkey hunting, I'm always going to go for those, you know, those knee high lacrosse boots at this point, you know, those type of boots.

Now, we were talking a little bit before. Now, if I'm showing up in my spot in Northeast Washington where it's public ground, it's super rugged, you're dang near, you know, mule deer or sheep hunting for turkeys, I'm still going to lace up my mountain boots because it's just kind of matching the terrain you're in. But yeah, if you haven't tried, you know, like I say, I'm not trying to give any specific brand or company a plug, but those lacrosse

Arrowheads, they're a legit boot that you can cover some ground in and they're super comfortable. It's nice. Like you say, they're warmer. I know my feet aren't going to get wet and they're a good boot. And we're going to get into ticks here in a little bit. The other thing that's nice

um, is, is that they're, they're a tall boot, you know, they cover more of your, they, they give kind of, and if you tuck your, uh, your pants in, it gives like access, uh, for ticks is, is a very difficult path. Yeah. That's a really good point, man. Um, yeah, those, those boots, I, I go through this thing, like just to mention it real quick, every time I put them on, I'm like, are these lighter than the other ones? And I'll weigh them and they weigh pretty much the same, but just the way that they fit, um,

they just seem like nimble and lighter. I can't explain it, but I'm just like, I've been blown away the last couple of weeks using them. Yep. No, they're legit. So if you, uh, you're going out turkey hunting, um, don't, don't, um, discredit rubber boots. Um, they, they, they've got their place for sure. So, uh, ticks, one of the things that used to just drive me nuts, they still drive me nuts, but we've kind of got them under wrap. Um,

every, every year I came back from Kansas, I've been bit or had ticks, um, kind of stuck in me. So, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it bothers me. My little funny story. I cannot get my boy to use turkey hunt. And it's not just a, it's not just, he's scared of ticks. It's like a serious phobia. Like if my dog comes in the house with a tick, like my kids like running through glass doors to get out the other side of the house, like it's, it's legit. So, um,

ticks and what do we, what do we do to fix it? And, uh, I'll let you go. And I've got kind of a gross little story about, um, what, what, what happened to me last year in Kansas. So what are you doing to prevent ticks? Um, there's, I think there's like the chemical side and then there's what I would consider like housekeeping before you sit down, before you do this or that, like you can prevent a lot of this from happening.

Yeah, we don't have a huge tick problem here. They're definitely around. But the story you're going to tell, I don't think we have anything. I've never seen anything quite like that here. But I've got just the basic off or the Sawyer stuff in the house where it's just like a tick repellent. Just spray it on the outside of your clothes. I've done that a little bit. It seems like...

if I haven't really seen any ticks I just kind of forget to do it and then I don't do it. I do just when I get home though I try to like look through all my clothes and just do like a body check and make sure that there's none stuck to me but I'm really interested to hear what you've got to say about ticks. Yeah so chemical wise like we use Sawyer or Repel like aerosol I think

I think it's mixed to like a half percent permethrin. I know you can get higher concentrations off of like Amazon and stuff. I'm, I am in no way condoning like the safety of that here on the podcast, but there are ways to get it in like higher concentration. But yeah, we, we lay out all of our gear. When we get to where we're going, we spray it down. I think it lasts like two weeks and it makes it through washings and whatnot. So that's really helped. I would, I got, I,

I got like some weird, I sprayed my gator last year. Cause I was always worried. Like if something landed on my shoulder, it came off the tree. Um, I wouldn't recommend like necessarily spring it on your gator and breathing through it for long periods of time. Um, but yeah, the chemical treatment does great. But yeah, last year in Kansas, um, our buddy Chris Parrish was the last one with a tag and me and Dirk set up maybe 30 yards behind him into the woods to help do some, just some supplemental calling occasionally. And,

set up in my seat, kind of set up in a bunch of oak leaves. And I could see that I always wear my gators as well as another, if I'm wearing leather boots or I'm not wearing my rubber boots, like I still, I just want those ticks to have like a crazy path to get on me, you know, if possible. We're sitting there and I start to see some ticks like

crawling up my leg like visually i'm like this is interesting but you could watch them get to like your knee and they get kind of almost what i would consider drunk they were like they would start walking crooked and then they'd walk to the side of your pant and like literally just fall to the ground like the permethrin was killing them by time they got to my knee um and then they were i must have sat in a nest uh a nymph nest or a a

a midge nest. Like there were mostly babies, but I had a couple of big ones. And then I realized that I was sitting in a lone star tick nest, which is it for those that don't know, those are the ones that carry the alpha gal syndrome where when they bite you, um, when they bite you, you can no longer eat red meat. So now I no longer cared if Chris Parrish ever killed a Turkey, I was getting up and moving once I've put it all together. Um,

But yeah, and just, it's not my place to tell everybody about that. But my research that I did is you got about a 3% chance if a Lone Star tick bites you,

bites you that you're going to get the alpha gal. And I'm like, it's not worth it. So I picked up my seat. You know, some things I could have did there better, like cleaned out the area when I first sat down, you know, get rid of all of those oak leaves and gave myself, you know, maybe a six by six area to sit down, which maybe would have helped. But yeah, that permethrin, I said 100 ticks earlier. I bet you I probably had realistically 50 to 60 climb up my leg and none of them made it past my knee.

Um, so the permethrin works, um, it works well. Um, like I said, I was always worried about something coming into my neck area. So I sprayed my gator down, which is always kind of tucked in there. And I didn't feel real good after a couple of days. And I don't know if it was that, or maybe I was sick, but

I'm definitely not a medical doctor, but permethrin works. Everything else is like just extra precautions, like tucking a shirt in into your pants and cinching your belt up pretty tight. Like we talked earlier, rubber boots, put your pants inside so they didn't have to, you know, a long way around. I've even went to, you know, putting like elastic Velcro straps like around my wrist just to keep things really tight. Just extra precautions, not necessarily gear related, but just

just prevent any of that stuff from happening. So we talked a little bit earlier about vest versus chest rigs. We kind of talked about where vests maybe were a little bit better carrying decoys. Are you bringing decoys in every turkey hunting situation or are there certain setups where you're going to bring them? And then what decoys do you tend to use? You know, for the most part,

were especially during shotgun season I'm just like not using one um we'll try to do that we'll just try to not use one um just helps you like move setups quicker and then sometimes I mean I don't know maybe if it's just a way that I set set them up but sometimes man they they might see a decoy and then just skirt you

Like they don't, won't commit to it for some reason. Um, so that deal, but I, I just have a DSD hen that I use most of the time. Um, I've got some other cheaper ones, uh, that are like a Jake. You could put a fan on it. Um,

I gotta be honest. I don't like super nerd out about all the different setups and all that stuff. I've got the hen that those ones from DSD, like they look so realistic, like pretty realistic looking hen. Like if I need a decoy, that's pretty much what I'm using.

Yeah. I've been able, I've got a buddy that Eric Broughton, who was on the podcast last week, he's got a couple of like real life stuffer hens where I've seen, but just like you, I've seen them not work in situations where I almost wonder if we didn't have any decoy out, if we would, it would have worked better. You always hear about people like with a Jake and a breeding hen set up. And I just feel like at times they, they have worked,

maybe even detrimental to the situation. But then, like last year in Kansas, we were on a field edge.

um we we kind of crawled out there we knew there were turkeys on the other end set up our decoys and that was the only reason you know calling worked a little bit but it was the visual that got those birds all the way to us so i think they definitely have their place and and like you um i've got a dave smith deco one of the hens and then a jake and you know we can put the fan on and there's just times where we'll use it in times where we don't we usually always carry them around with us for the most part but um

you know when we're running and gunning like i said i'm already carrying a chair and then now you've got like the the hard decoy bags over your shoulders like you can make it happen but um yeah i i'm i guess i'm i'm not biased either way like we usually carry them yeah we sometimes use them sometimes we don't i think they can be a great asset especially where um if the birds aren't real callable and you think that that visuals that's gonna work like uh we'll we definitely throw them out there um nice

So we're going to talk about weapons and the gear that we ultimately use to kill the turkey. You're going to touch on archery and then I'm going to go over just real quick kind of what I use as far as my setup and as far as like patterning and stuff like that. But you're an archery turkey hunter. What do you use? Are you using like special broadheads? Are you lightening your setup? Kind of give us the lowdown on an archery setup specifically for turkey.

Yeah. The, the only thing that I changed with turkeys is I will put an expandable broadhead on it. Um, just seems to, I don't know, just, it seemed to work a little bit better for me for turkeys. Um, so it opens them up pretty good. I have the, uh, the grim Reaper. They have a white tail hybrid. It's like a two, I think it's a two and a half inch cutting diameter. Um, that has been a really nice one for me. And they're honestly, they're,

turkeys are small and they're easy to miss with archery equipment. So, um, I tend to not want a super expensive broadhead up there. Uh, so those ones, you know, they're your basic, like 40 bucks a pack or whatever for three of them. Um, so I snag those. That's pretty much all I change. Um, I don't do like a big change difference on my archery setup from turkeys to like, uh,

shooting, you know, like 3D season to then going into, you know, elk season. I don't really change anything up like that, but the broadhead is something I do change. Gotcha. So you're just using more of what we consider like a big game expandable. You're not going to like the, you know, whatever the turkey guillotines or like these big four inch cutting diameter. You're just sticking with something that's more accurate and smaller expandable. Yeah.

Yeah, because honestly, sometimes, man, like, especially if we're doing a run-and-gun archery setup that's, like, way more difficult, you're shooting these things at 40 yards, too. They're not, you know, three yards from the blind, where I think those guillotines could really be where they're more, I guess, likely to actually work. Yep. So, yeah, that expandable seems to work good for me. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah, and then...

I've always felt like turkeys were designed to be shot with a shotgun. So I just haven't picked my bow up and taken them yet. But I really like having like a semi-automatic shotgun. I hunted with a pump forever when I first got going. It's what I could afford. I really like recoil management. Some of these turkey loads really kind of thump you when you go to pull the trigger. It's not so much why you're hunting. It's more of the patterning and whatnot. But

I'm using the Weatherby currently great gun. I really I kind of got away from like changing ammo and tinkering with my setup for a long time because my my old gun shot so well when I got a new gun. I'm like, oh, now we can get a new choke. We can get new ammo. Did a bunch of research, found that Indian Creek seemed to have a great following and like a great.

They were shooting great patterns and they were really kind of designing for TSS. I know a lot of the guys within the MeatEater crew were using Carlton Chokes with great success. So I screwed in an Indian Creek and then I went to TSS, ended up, we used to have like a, MeatEater had like a five, seven, eight mix or something. And I ended up just going with a Pure Number 9

I wanted more BBs and I didn't have any intention of shooting them past 50 yards and TSS 9 is fully capable out to 50. And so that combination of being able to drop down to a three inch magnum instead of a three and a half inch, which I was shooting out of my old pump gun.

That choke and that pattern, it is an incredible... I've never hunted with a red dot and was able to kind of throw that on. I almost feel like it's cheating a little bit. The gun is just automatic. And I've got the problem of a 20-yard bird now of me missing if I don't do everything right. So that's the one downside.

- Yeah, we're shooting like a, I don't know, a six inch circle it seems like at about 20, you know, with just a few errant BBs. But yeah, there's all kinds of ways. I'm not gonna tell you how to hunt, but I would say, you know, get comfortable with what turkeys can pick up and see in like maybe, you know, your first bird or two with a shotgun. And then once you've kind of got that down and what you can get away with, like,

One of these days I just need to pick up my bow. And then archery hunting, like you had said earlier, having success. Archery hunting for turkeys outside of a blind is like one of those ultimate accomplishments because they've got such good eyesight and getting your bow drawn is incredibly tough.

Yeah, it seems like the best time to do it is coming right up when archery season is starting just here in about a week. The 25th, I think, is when we open here. Yeah.

They're just all in big groups. So then you got a ton of hens that are like looking around. So we locked out with that. I just got in a pissing match with the hen and got her to bring the whole crew in. The whole flock by. Yeah. And then did they pick you up when you drew or were you completely like... Yep. Yeah, they ended up... I'm not joking, man. There were at least 12 hens in that flock and they were like...

They were feet away from us, just pecking at the ground. I don't understand how they didn't see us because, you know, I was on my... Leah was sitting down like kind of on her knees, but on her butt. And I was just standing up on my knees beside her with a camera, like...

And I was almost laughing because they were so close. I was like, how is this even happening? But they ended up, yeah, they came in. She ended up shooting him at probably 15 yards, maybe.

just strutted right by us. We kind of waited until they all got by us before she drew. Um, but yeah, they picked us up when we drew that's for sure. Yeah. That's cool. That's cool. So, um, and then the last thing with gear, which, um, this is going to be a shameless plug for sure is, is calls, right? You know, everybody, when you think of spring Turkey hunting, everybody's got calls in their hand, you know, the whole idea is to interact. And, um, you know, I, we, we,

We've got our owl calls. We've got our crow calls for locators. We've got our meat eater ex-phelps turkey lineup. One thing I just wanted to highlight here, which I feel is worth mentioning, is if you haven't checked out our small batch pot calls or our small batch owl hooters, we joined up with James Harrison and Steve Morgenstern this year. I wanted to just build the absolute best sounding hooters

most durable turkey calls we could. And so Steve Morgenstern knocked it out of the park, gave us some recommendations, really tweaked the specs on some pot calls for us. So we have an aluminum inside an Osage, but we went with a lot thicker aluminum than most people use on their calls. And that aluminum is just a smoking call. And then we built...

uh, a green slate, um, inside of a teak pot and teak is just one of those woods. It's, you know, it's a reason why it's used in Marine applications all the time. It's, you know, extremely durable, decay resistant, rot resistant. Um, and then green slate is, is an amazing, um,

surface to be used. And then Steve assembled all of those, tested them all. And those pot calls, in my opinion, are as good as it gets. And then we joined up with James Harrison to design those owl hooters, which I think at the time this podcast airs, we're going to be sold out and we hope to have a restock here. But those owl calls are just at a different level. They're very, very good.

So yeah, that's kind of the big change, you know, or the additions this year in the Phelps turkey lineup. And then, yeah, if you need to get your calls, they are in stock and turkey season getting close. So in closing, what is one tip you feel would give turkey hunters better odds at finding success this year?

Uh, you know, from a pure filling your tag success standpoint, don't be afraid to switch things up. Um, kind of like I was talking about if, if they're not talking for some reason or another, like it just, you might not be able to change that. Um, so I think a combination of don't be afraid to change things up and patience, um, can both really help.

Yeah. And that's a great tip. Like as much as, especially me going out there, it's to use the calls. But one time we just hit it wrong in Kansas where we could see birds and we were hitting him with every locator we had. They had no intention of ever making a sound. Well, it's like the hens were feeding down to us.

And it's like, well, I'm not opposed to shooting one when it walks by us. Right. And so it's just like changing your strategy. Like we could have probably sat there and called and we would have scared them off or those hens would have changed their pattern. But it's like, all right, we'll just, you almost have to play with the rules that you're given, right? Or the playing field that you're given. Like this is what they're going to give us. We've only got so much time and so many days.

I'm not opposed to shooting one when it walks by. So it's just outsmarting them. But yeah, be patient and change your strategy. Don't just go in with, you know, one way's got to work.

Yep. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's where like, you know, your ground blind can come in just being able to chill there and be a little bit more comfortable and move around a little bit more while you're being patient can help a little bit. But, you know, then there's, there's certainly people that just want to shoot. They want to have that interaction and they're just going to move around until they, they find the interaction. I mean, really no different to elk, you know? So yeah, I guess it kind of depends what you want, but yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we really appreciate you having, or having you on the show today, Jordan. Uh, how can people find out more about you, you know, through social media or, you know, gear talk podcast or where they can, they can find you. Yeah. So, uh, Instagram, it's just at Jordan dot bud on Instagram. And then, uh, I've got a YouTube channel as well. I've been kicking out some stuff that we've been filming, uh, on our fall hunts. So that's just Jordan, but on, on YouTube and yeah, the gear talk podcast, I find it wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, perfect. Thanks for coming on. Good luck out there in Nebraska this year, and we'll touch base with you here in the middle of the season and see how you're doing. Yeah, appreciate it, Jason. Thanks.

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