Ep. 32: Locating Gobblers and Turkey Strategies with James Harrison
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Today's guest might be part human and part owl. James Harrison was born and raised in Hillsborough, Missouri, where he married his high school sweetheart and has two sons, Cody and Carter, who both have followed in his footsteps and love the outdoors as much as he does. By day, James is a machinist, pretty good skill set to have when you're designing and building game calls. He's been building them and designing them for over 14 years.

In addition to being an amazing contest caller and call builder, James knows his stuff when it comes to hunting turkeys, which is the whole reason we have him here on the podcast. Welcome to the show, James. Hey, how's it going, Jason?

How are things going there? Excellent. You know what? It's 70 degrees today. It's sunny, so definitely getting me in the mood for some spring turkey season. The spring peepers are out peeping, and I guarantee you, turkeys were probably gobbling this morning. I woke up. It was beautiful out. I hated to go to work. I was like, doggone it. I'd like to be out scouting birds.

What do the populations look like in Missouri this year? You guys have a good hatch or is it down up from last year? Well, you know, around the house here, we had, we've had good hatches the last three years in a row. So, I mean, you're just right around the house here.

is, has been really, really good. Uh, we do manage, I'm lucky that I know all the farmers around the house. So we all manage for predators and we do habitat and stuff like that. So that makes a, you know, in my area there, that makes a huge difference. Uh,

Southern Missouri and some spots that we hunt a lot, they're kind of hit and miss. You'll get some pockets that got good birds, and then you'll hit others that there ain't no birds there. It's just been bad hatches due to weather and stuff like that. It's kind of funny. You'll be one spot, and then you'll drive 10 miles away, and they'll be loaded up full of turkeys, and you'll go to another spot maybe just down the road. They used to carry and hold a lot of birds, and there ain't that many there. Yeah.

Gotcha. So hit or miss, but in your area, pretty good right now. Yes. Turkeys are one of those species that are awesome with their life expectancy of three and a half to four years max. They can definitely get older than that, but on typical, so you can change where...

you know, the last 20 or 30 years, Missouri seems to be going on a downhill trend. It's like a couple of good Springs, you know, things going your way and it can rebound, you know, fairly quickly compared to some of the other species, you know, winter kills and stuff we have out West here. It seems like it takes a lot longer to rebound, uh,

um, and, and get your numbers back. So it's good to hear that. Um, you have had a, a few good, uh, hatches in a row there. Yeah, it's, it's been good. We've been seeing a lot of Jake's, uh, for the last three years, we've had good Jake numbers and a two-year-olds and a lot of the farms that we do with, that we do hunt and stuff like that. We manage it pretty tight. We may only take one bird off of a farm, uh, the farm here by the house that, uh, I've been watching really close and we've had under management. We didn't even kill a bird off of it last year.

So, uh, just because we, the age structure, there was a bunch of two-year-olds in there, which is great. You know, they're, they're movie stars, full fans usually get shot, you know, but, uh,

I, they were breeding. We had a lot of hens, so we just kind of let that farm set. And, uh, you know, we got the luxury to do that. And then we, we hunt a ton of private, I mean, uh, public ground down South of us. So it's all timber, big hardwoods, uh, you know, pretty much, I think right behind, right below the house, about an hour, we got like 98,000 acres of, uh, public ground to hunt. And then it's all, all, like I said, it's all timber. So, uh, we go down there and chase birds, uh,

all the time and, uh, we really enjoy it. So that kind of takes the pressure off of our, uh, birds here by the house to just kind of let them do their thing. Yeah. Yeah. So a little bit of your backgrounds, a little bit of private hunting, a little bit of public hunting, um, you know, out here in the West, we, we do a lot of public, a majority of public, but then when I get to go back to Kansas and whatnot, get to do some private and it's, it's, it's fun to compare and contrast and kind of use a different skillset on, on both. So you have that

you know, well-rounded. You just got home from the NWTF National Convention down there in Nashville, Tennessee. I just got back from the Pacific Northwest Sportsman Show there in Portland, Oregon. I envy your location compared to mine for sure. Yeah, Portland's not the greatest place, but it's got great customers. You know, I would call them friends now at this point. It's kind of our backyard show, but

I think you can attest to it. Even the people we've seen here in the Pacific Northwest, people are starting to get excited about Turkey. It's right around the corner. How was the convention down there in Nashville? It was bigger than it ever was. It seems like the people are really coming out. I think...

I haven't heard any solid numbers, but I know it was, uh, I'm, I'm almost a hundred percent positive. It was over 60,000 people went through the show or it's going to be really close to that. But I mean, people were there, they were, uh, you know, they were spending money, they were out shopping, they were, uh,

they were doing what they're supposed to do. And I mean, we were having a great time and, uh, you know, positive feedback, the weather was nice. So that always helps, you know, everybody got out and stuff like that. So, uh, you know, the NWTF convention every year just seems like it keeps getting better and better and better and growing. And, uh, you know, hats off to those guys for putting on a heck of a convention, you know, the, the calling contest end of it was up probably a record numbers of guys in the contest. Uh,

you know, vendors, vendors was up, you know, so it was, it was good all the way around, you know, the custom call building shows there where they do the duck calls and stuff like that. And the turkey calls and everything. And, uh, I think that was a record this year too, as far as, uh, people entering that. So, uh, overall it was a home run for sure, you know, and they have it at the Opryland hotel down there and convention center. So it's all contained in one building. So, I mean, if you're staying there, that's awesome. You never have to

once you pull in and park, you don't leave for the next three days. You're just there, you know? So, uh, it's a, it's an enjoyable, enjoyable time for sure.

Yeah. You mentioned, you know, record attendance coming off of the Western Hunt Expo and now the Pacific Northwest. You know, everybody talks about these, you know, recessions and stuff we're in, but if you had to judge based on the sportsmen and the people at these shows, you know, spending money, you wouldn't, you wouldn't know anything about it. Seems like, you know, either people are on fire, they're passionate, they're just, they're showing up. And, and yeah, I've always, I've always kind of thought that, you know, hunters are a little bit, you know,

recession proof because they're going to budget. They're going to do what they need to do to make sure that, you know, they, they can enjoy the outdoors and have the right equipment. So, um, Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think COVID too, you know, when COVID hit a lot of guys that, uh, you know, had to stay at home, you know, or work for home and stuff like that and everything was shut down. So I think a lot of guys, you know, got back into hunting again and they, you know, they realized what they'd been missing all that time. So they just picked it back up and they're just, you know what, Hey, this is,

We enjoy doing it and, uh, they're, they continue to do it. They just didn't go back to work and, uh, uh, you know, we'll drop it. So I think that really, I mean, take a bright point out of a, out of a terrible situation. I think COVID really made the sportsmen and, uh, you know, fishing industry, everything. I think it made it stronger because more people got out there and started participating and, uh, and, uh, are still continuing to do it. So, I mean, that's great all the way around for everybody. Yep. For sure. For sure.

So we're going to jump into the first segment here on the Cutting the Distance where we take listener questions. And if you have any questions for us here on the show, for me and my guests, please make sure to email ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com or send us a social message.

we'll do our best to get these questions on the show and see if myself or experts can answer them so the first question for today is and it's kind of right up your wheelhouse i went and kind of cherry picked these for you i'm new to turkey hunting and i'm curious why you would locate a turkey without turkey calls that's a that's a good question i i get that one i'll ask a lot too and uh

The reason, you know, the main reason to locate a turkey is to get that bird to gobble at you. So, you know, his location, so you can go set up on him to hunt, hunt him and stuff like that.

Uh, I'm a real stickler about not Turkey calling to a bird until I'm ready to set up on him and, and actually start calling him into shooting. So, uh, I, that's why I use the owl Hooters, the crow calls, the, uh, you know, the coyote howler stuff like that. Cause I want that Turkey to be gobbling at a sound, but I don't want him to be associating that Turkey. Cause a lot of times I've seen guys. So.

set up and this is me too. I've done it before in the past. I'm guilty of it. I've set up and I hadn't, I didn't get a bird goblin. So I started getting a mouth call or a box call out and I started cutting at him and I got one to gobble at me and I was like, oh, okay, he's over there, you know, so I'm going to go to him. And as I'm going to him, he was actually coming to me. So I just bumped him and spooked the bird and

Or if there's a bird around that's being quiet and I'm turkey calling to him and he never gobbles and I go on and move on, then that bird shows up at my location and he's confused like, okay, there was a hen here. She's not here now. I don't know what happened. And so I try not to turkey call until I'm set up on the bird and actually ready to call him in and shoot him.

Yeah. And, uh, that's the same as me. I, I think, you know, same as elk hunting out here out West, we, we will locate, you got to kind of, you know, elk don't shot gobble, unfortunately. So you do have to locate them with a bugle, but it's very similar. Like,

I've always said, I think the biggest mistake is like bugling your way in and letting him know you're coming. Um, similar to turkeys, you don't want to have to give up your location until you have to. So if you can paint that, if you can, you know, get his location without having to, uh, you know, paint a picture that you are a hen Turkey somewhere on the, on the landscape, I think you're putting the, you know, you're kind of stacking the deck in your favor a little bit because then you can go silent. Um, and all of a sudden when you are set up within close proximity, um, or whatever, whatever, uh,

you know, tactics or you're going to use, um, you can then, you know, become a hen Turkey and do the calling. So, you know, very much like you, we, we try to always locate, um, you out West, um, you know, we, we tend to use, and I'll get into this in a little bit. Um,

we tend to use you know you try to time your your locators with what's working you know so in the morning we'll go to al in the evening we'll go to al or kyle i don't like to use kyle early in the morning because i don't want to let that turkey know you know if i do locate that there's a coyote running around and may you know i don't know if turkeys think that deeply about things but in my mind is like well if there's a coyote on the ground that turkey's going to be a little less hesitant or a little more hesitant than you know coming in and then for us out west um

You know, Crow and then the Pileated Woodpecker, maybe even more so than these other ones, seems to just work. I don't know if it's that sharp, high-pitched, you know, rapid sound that just kind of gets them going. But we've been using a lot of Pileated Woodpecker out here on the Merriams, and it seems to have great, you know, performance.

it's just got a great response and it carries, it carries through some of this big Canyon country. And then there's all the other things we could use, you know, coyote, peacock, goose, duck, we even use elk bugles. And you always hear the, the, the same reference to, well, I just slammed my truck door. I honked my horn, you know, when I get out and those work, but I think I just, just being a woodsman and wanting to fit on the landscape, I think, you know, using natural animal sounds as part of the game we love to play. Right. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I want to, you know, I try to, when I'm hunting and going to locate a bird, I try to be as realistic with my calling, even on my locator calls as possible. So, and I was talking to a guy this weekend about that, the show, I said, if I can get my owl hooter out and I can get that, get a, you know, hit a few notes on the owl hooter and I can get four or five owls to start hooting back at me, then I can just be quiet and listen to the owls. Because if that owl, you know, if another owl's on a different ridge,

He's carrying farther than my sounds carrying. So he's actually helping me locate more turkeys and carry the distance. Same way with the crow or anything like that. So, uh, I try to keep it as realistic as possible. And, you know, I mean, like in the mornings, I like to do a crow and owl kind of like you're talking about where you guys are at midday. I'll hit the, uh, you know, the hawk scream, Peliated woodpecker, uh, coyote howling. I save that until they are up on roost.

And, uh, you know, I know them birds are actually up on the roost. And the reason being, I had a great hunt in Kansas a couple of years ago, and I was on a bird and had, it was a Galbraith had three hens with him and I was laying there just watching him. He was going to fly up to roost. I was going to get set up farm that next morning. You know, if he came into range that evening, I was going to shoot him, you know, we'd hunt all day out there. And, uh, I could tell by the way he was acting, he wasn't, he was just going to stay with him hen. So I was just going to watch him fly up, get a good bearing on him.

and slide in the next morning. And, uh, here comes my oldest son, Cody driving down the road. I'm, I'm five, 600 yards off the road. He doesn't even know I'm in there on this chunk of ground. And he stops the truck and he starts coyote howling. And he's probably 600 yards for me and the Turkey. And that, that gobbler literally just popped out a strut, popped his wings in and all three of them took off going up the Ridge side and, and was gone for the evening. So I never knew where they got to, to go to roost. So I was like, dad gum, you know, so that's,

The, on the coyote howling works great. It covers a lot of ground. Just make sure when you do something like that, that them birds are definitely on roost. That way they're safe and up in a tree because coyotes definitely, I mean, turkeys, their main goal in life, they're going to try to survive and, uh, everything tries to eat a turkey pretty much. So I think they definitely associate, you know, they know what noises are, what, you know, they hear coyote, they know that's danger. So.

Yep. Yep. I'm in the, I'm in the same camp that you are that, uh, those coyote howls work great, but they're only a, uh, you know, after dark locator, you know, and, uh, make sure those birds feel comfortable, you know, and during the, during the morning, even during the afternoon, I don't want them to think that there's a, you know, a coyote running around close to them.

Um, so that's a good segue into this next one. Um, you know, we just mentioned a plethora of calls, you know, you could have crow, owl, woodpecker, coyote, peacock, goose, you know, duck calls, elk bugles, whatever you, you could, you could literally fill up a vest and have way more locator calls than you could have turkey calls on you if you carried everything. But what locators, uh, what locator calls should I carry with me? And this was a listener question, but you know, what's, what's a good coverage, you know, what's a, uh,

I guess what kind of covers all your bases? Um, and what do you carry for locator calls? Oh, that's, that's a great question there. And I, and I can, I can honestly sum it up. You know, I hunt a lot of big timber, you know, especially on public ground places like that, where we're going in there a long ways and going, you know, four or five miles in and stuff like that. So, um,

And when you're in, and it's probably just like you are out West when you're in that big, vast country, if you can't find your turkeys to hunt, you're going to be doing a lot of walking or a lot of glass and a lot of time wasted just trying to find birds. So I carry, usually I have my owl hooter with me. I have a crow call. I carry a coyote holler with me. I usually carry a Peliated woodpecker and a hawk scream. And so I carry several locator calls just because I,

If I can't find my turkeys that I'm trying to, you know, to hunt, then it's just making my job that much harder. So I literally probably carry, I, I, I'm one of the guys, I probably carry more locator calls than I do turkey calls.

So, you know, I, you know, just all the way down the line. So good owl hooter, good crow call, pilea woodpecker, hawk scream, coyote howler, you know, that's, and you can get into goose calls, you know, like we're around the house where we're at. We don't have a ton of geese. So, you know, you can hit a goose call and they, they may not ever answer it. So then I got a couple of places I hunt that's loaded up with geese. So, I mean, they'll hear geese a lot and they'll gobble at it, you know? So I really kind of hunt that, you know, your terrain.

in that area as far as yeah yeah what's what's natural for the area yep um all right so with that said we've already kind of talked about not using turkey calls when is there a situation or if you know there are turkeys around is there at a point where you're like all right these locators aren't working they don't care will you switch to a turkey call do some loud cutting or some yelping or do you do you only only use that for for calling turkeys in once you know where they're at

The time I'll start to switch over and use a turkey calls if I'm in an area and I've scouted it a bunch and I know there's birds in there. So let's take, for instance, I'm on a couple ridges and I know I got three longbeards hanging in those ridges. And, you know, it's a pretty big area, but I know them birds are there and it's getting midday and it's kind of just starting to wind down. You know, everything's gotten woods have kind of gotten quiet.

I may go ahead then and hit a call, cut a few times, but at that point, I'm pretty much setting up and going to stay for a while. You know, I'm going to find me a real good location that I can see good, and I'm going to set up.

Go ahead, get ready to roll. And then I'm going to hit the calls and then I'm going to sit there and wait for, you know, half an hour, 45 minutes. And then I may hit another series of calls and then, you know, wait again for another half hour, 45 minutes and just kind of like wait for the birds to do their thing. And a lot of times that works out great because, um,

I may call two or three times. I've had birds come in quiet on me a bunch that, you know, didn't gobble at all. And then also, you know, you're sitting there at 30, 45 minutes, you know, an hour just doing your thing. And then you'll, you'll hear another bird gobble in a different direction or something. So then at that point you can pick up and go from there. But yeah,

Yeah. If I know I'm going to stay in an area and I know there's birds in the area, then I'll, I'll be more apt to grab a turkey call and sit down and, uh, just set up. And basically what you're doing is blind calling to them, you know, kind of like you do a deer. You're just, uh, know they're in the area. You're just hoping to make contact with them and get them to come in.

Yep. And, and what kind of led me on to, to doing this were a few situations where we knew there were birds around, we're on a, you know, a good piece of property or a good area over there. And, you know, you're locating, locate and locate hitting crow hitting, you know, whatever you got, palliative woodpecker, nothing's answering. Right. But then you,

you can visually like see the turkeys like you know hend up or they're with and you're like well i can i know they can hear me i know that i can see them and they're not answering but yet you sit down and hen call and then you could you know we've we've pulled over you know pulled over one of the you know subordinate toms or we've pulled over one of the two-year-olds and it's

And it's like, all right, that's where like, all right, turkey calling may be beneficial versus, you know, just sit there cranking on locators the whole time. You know, and that's like you mentioned right off the bat on that question. If you know there are birds in the area and you're not just, you know, I would say it's not cold calling, but it's not necessarily hot calling either. It's kind of that, you know, lukewarm calling where, you know, there's birds around, but they're not directly answering you. Like, I feel that's a time where we can start to try to locate, um,

um with our with our hen calls but also at that point you're almost semi trying to call them in from that location at that point yeah correct and it's just like fishing in a farm pond you know the fish are there you just got to figure out what they're biting on that day and uh hopefully you know get one and get one to bite same way with the turkeys we know they're in the area we know they're you know probably have hens with them you know you know and that's where

and we may talk about this a little bit later and I'm sure we will, is scouting is key. You know, the more you spend scouting the birds and knowing the turkeys and going and, you know, studying them and knowing how many birds is on your piece of property or where they're at, that's just all the, you know, that benefits you so much because then you know when you get into an area, okay, I've had two birds in this area all spring or I've had one bird and a couple of jakes or something like that. So the more you scout,

The, the better advantage you have to really pinpoint your birds and getting them. And, you know, when I'm scouting birds too, and I'll bring this up on the, on the topic, um,

When I'm scouting for birds before season, I leave my turkey calls at home because I don't want to, I, I more than anybody love to hear a turkey gobble and I want to fire him up and get that bird gobbling and hammering and doing, doing everything that you want him to do. But before season, I don't want to call to that bird. I don't, I want him just as calm and no hunting pressure. It's kind of like on deer hunting. I don't want them bucks to know I'm in the area that I don't even want them to know I exist. So it's,

So I kind of treat my turkeys like I do my deer. I get on the outside fringes, hit them with an owl hooter, hit them with a crow call, whatever, get them to gobble. And then I just sit there and listen to them and learn and see where they're going to. You know, if I can get them, if I can get birds that are roosting on a certain ridge and every morning they'll fly down and go to a watering hole or someplace to a creek to get water. Well, that's just giving me the advantage that I know the next morning,

I need to be where the water is and just set up on them. And if I hen call, maybe I'm off a hundred yards from them, but they know a hen's there by it. They're going to come over and skirt right to me, you know, and they're going to get the hen and get to the water at the same time. So scouting and just paying attention to listening, you know, that's, that's the key, key, key, key.

Yep, yep. All right, well, thanks for answering those questions for us, James. And once again, if you have any questions for us here, me or my guests here on the Cutting the Distance, please submit your questions to ctd at phelpsgamecalls.com. We'll do our best to get them answered.

So on today's episode, I wanted to dive into your tactics and strategies and what you use to be successful year in and year out when it comes to turkey hunting. We mentioned it earlier, you know, been in Missouri. You saw the heydays of the 90s, the early 2000s, you know, where turkey numbers were way up. You know, you guys had maybe some of the best turkey hunting in the world, you know, in Missouri. And so I wanted to dive into that.

And now it seems, you know, I've heard anywhere from, you know, 50 to 65% reduction in turkey numbers, you know, Missouri from the, from the, from the peak, which isn't ideal, but it also probably forces you guys to, you know, be a little more cautious, become a little bit better, you know, so that there is some, I don't,

I don't want to say there's any good that comes from it, but it, it forced you guys to like, you know, sharpen your skills a little bit and hone your approaches. And you learn a lot from that, you know, when there isn't a bird around every corner, um, we're still kind of in that, that big upswing here in Washington where we have more birds and we know what to do with, but, um, you know, once the predators kind of figure them out, I'm sure we'll be in, in your guys' situation. Um,

So yeah, I, you're experienced Turkey, you know, you and your sons, um, you know, Cody and Carter, they, you guys get it done every year. I'm really excited to talk to you guys, see what you do, um, the same, and then maybe different than what we do. Um,

I wanted to just give a little background before we jump into our conversation, kind of how we met and kind of, you know, what we've got going on for people that may or may not know. We have a mutual buddy, Chris Parrish. You know, I got to know him almost 10 years ago, building turkey calls, went out and visited him and we've stayed in touch, you know, as, as Phelps game calls has grown and, and as he's, you know,

changed careers and did some stuff. And we were able to meet you and Steve on, we were on a Kansas turkey hunt and you guys came out for a day. And I don't even know what the whole idea was. We were just kind of meeting up and maybe BS in a little bit. Maybe we had, I don't know at that point, if we'd even decided to do anything together, we were just going to meet up and talk and chat there and maybe film some, maybe we had decided to do that, but we met up in Kansas and just, I think I speak for everybody here at Phillips game calls. Like

it was one of those things where just getting to know you and Steve a little bit. And I don't care how good a colors you guys are. I don't care how good a call makers you guys are. Like one thing that we always look for first is, uh, you know, quality of people. We can, we can find all kinds of guys that can call. We can find all kinds of people that can build calls, but you know, quality people. And I remember me and dirt chatted a couple of days, you know, he stayed an extra day and filmed you guys and like, Hey, these guys are salt of the earth. And, um,

so yeah, we, we met, we had a few phone calls, met there in Kansas and then, um, you know, just been kind of rolling on projects ever since then. So, uh, really excited to have you, you know, you guys on board and, we're doing some cool things and we have some cool things coming in the future. So, um, yeah, we've, we've worked on, you know, our beta and our, uh,

our Omega deer calls, you know, with you kind of giving some feedback and then, um, you know, the Harrison Hooter and Harrison Hooter pro were kind of all your ideas. So we're really stoked to be able to bring those, you know, to market through the Phelps game calls brand. And, uh,

Yeah. That's, that's enough of a plug. Just want to give a little background story that I just wanted to give a little background story on how, you know, uh, uh, uh, Elk Hunter from, and a call maker from Southwest Washington hooked up with some, you know, some, some great guys from Missouri and they're doing some collabs together. Oh yeah. It was great. And, you know, and Chris is, uh, Chris Parrish is the one to thank for that because I've known Chris since I've been, you know, basically a teenager, you know, in the Turkey calling circuit and stuff like that. And, uh,

He knows I build out who's in, you know, into deer grunters and stuff like that. And then he got with me and was like, Hey man, you need to build me some deer grunters and stuff. And, uh, I need to show some of these guys. And I, and at the time he was talking about you, you know, showing deer grunters and, you know, talking about how Hooters and I constantly, you know, I'm always trying to build a better mousetrap, I guess, so to speak, you know, I'm, I'm never satisfied with good. I always want to keep, take something to the next level and, and,

Keep going. And then, uh, when he brought up your guys, you know, Phelps and you and Dirk and everybody, I was, man, I was so excited to meet everybody. And then, and it was the same thing. I remember the first conversation me and you had on the phone. I hung up and I talked to my wife and I said, Jason is a type of person that is literally is as passionate about building calls and, uh,

a down to earth person as I am. And I said, this is going to be phenomenal. And, uh, ever since it's been, it's been absolutely, uh, you know, it's been awesome. It's been a whirlwind, you know, we went out to Kansas, met you guys. It was great. And then from there, we ain't looked back, you know, we're, we're, we're full steam ahead. You know, this is, uh, your runners did great. The outhooders are doing great. So it's a blast.

Yep. Yep. Looking to do some new stuff in 24, 25. So excited, excited to have you on not to, not to bore the listeners with our, our, our, our, our backstory, but we'll, we'll jump into some of the questions I have for you. You know, some of these are similar questions I've asked past guests. But yeah, just kind of get your take on it. And like I say, it's,

Give our listeners kind of the chance to find where some of you, you know, you expert, you know, turkey hunters, guys that get it done, know your stuff, kind of where you guys are similar. And then maybe little nuggets where you guys are different and give them kind of enough tools in their toolbox to go out and, you know, try different things that they found successful. So.

One question I always ask is how early do you get to the turkey woods? And I know you had mentioned earlier, we're going to talk about scouting a little bit. And if that affects it, go ahead and kind of add that in. But, you know, we, we've always balanced back and forth on getting out, you know, at four o'clock waiting for everything to come alive versus, you know, let's just hang back and get to the best vantage on the entire property. And then we've got like a good snapshot on what's all over the property and you know how to,

Kind of give us a little, a little, um,

you know, insight into how earlier is James Harrison sitting under a tree? And then, um, you know, how does that affect if you don't have a bird roosted or do have a bird roosted plus all your scouting? Well, you know, that's, that's a good question. Early for me is I will get in as early as I have to get in. I mean, that's kind of vague, but most of the time I am well at where I'm going to be hunting at an hour to hour and a half early, maybe not up against a tree, but I'll be at my location. And just for the fact that,

You know, if I'm crossing fields or if I'm going through timber and I got to walk in on a bunch of public ground and I have a half mile or a mile trek or whatever, I want to get in there super early. That way, if I do make some noise getting through there by the time daylight hits and the birds start to gobbling that that's a noise they have done forgot about. I mean,

There's a lot of things in the woods that make noise all night long between deer and, you know, possums and armadillos, whatever. There's always something making noise. So as long as you're not doing it right at daylight when them birds are waking up and you're, you know, relatively quiet about it.

You know, you can get away with a lot of stuff, but I get in, I'm an early guy. I like getting in early. If I have to take a nap beside a tree and sleep for half an hour, 45 minutes, I'm fine with it. I don't mind at all. I'd much rather be early than late because late's when you get caught and late's when you start rushing and doing, doing things that, uh, that spook birds, you know, crossing fields when it's starting to break daylight and the birds are roosted on the edge of the fields or, uh,

If you're in big, hard timbers, you know, I think a big mistake guys make in timber situations is they try to get too close to them birds. And I'm a 200-pound guy, so when I'm walking in dry leaves, I sound like a 200-pound guy.

And, uh, if I'm going to try to get 50, 60, 70, 80 yards on a bird and set up, it's not going to happen without that bird, not knowing I'm there. So the earlier I can slide in on a bird and get set up in his general location, the better off I'm going to be now. That being said, you know, I'll, I'll throw this in a little bit here. I'll jump ahead a little bit.

If I am in a situation like that and I get there super early and I get set up in the bird start goblin and they're not where I want to be and I cannot get to them without spooking or letting them know I'm there. I let them go ahead and fly down and start their morning off. And then at that point, I'll get up and circle and put the move on them. Kind of like, you know, it'd be the same as an elk. You know, you know, you know where he's at.

You just don't have a good way to get to him without boogering him. So you just let him make the first, it's just a game of chess. You just got, you know, the biggest thing is, uh, patience and time with these turkeys and, you know, turkeys don't wear watches. I've said it all along. They don't know it's Saturday at eight o'clock and you got to be at work at nine o'clock. So you're trying to cram a hunt in, uh, just take your time, get there plenty early. I love getting in way before daylight. That way I know I'm not spooking nothing.

Yeah. Oh, in your opinion, you know, you brought up a good point, not getting through fields or open areas. You know, we always call it that gray light where it's not dark. It's not quite daylight in your opinion. If the turkeys aren't gobbling yet, are you okay to kind of get to that field or are you risking them seeing you? And then like, how, how long is a turkey's memory on when they're on the roofs? You know, I've heard people say, oh, we can get through there. We, you know, they might, we might bugger them up. They might hear us, but they'll forget by the time they fly down. And in my opinion, it's just,

it's hard to imagine that they're going to forget that there's something that just walked, you know, towards their tree or close. And so I've always been, you know, similar, like you said on elk hunting, I'd rather go way around or, you know, for us it's wind more than eyesight, but I'd rather just never get smelled and risk it. How much can you get away with during that gray light? And is a turkey going to remember what they, they just saw? Yeah.

Yeah, I think it varies per bird and hunting pressure, you know, like around the house here, we have a lot of cattle farms. So I think if you're a big object and you're moving in the field and that gray light, I think them turkeys probably don't pay much as attention. You know, they don't, they ain't really just registering as a threat because they hear that stuff constantly at night and stuff. But, uh,

I still, if it's a gray area, man, that's once again, I try to make sure I get to my spot before it ever starts to get to that point. That way I know I'm safe. No questions asked because turkeys will. I mean, a lot of times you've had guys walk through the field and he's like, man, that bird was gobbling good. And when he pitched down, he pitched down completely other direction. Well, there's a good chance he might've seen you.

He might not have been spooked, but he knew you wasn't correct or you didn't belong there. So he's definitely not going to fly down to you and check you out. One thing about turkeys, they're not curious creatures. They don't stick around to find out very long. So I try to give them zero. I don't want to give them any advantages. And another thing, too, while we're talking on that as far as gray light, I go into an area to roost a bird or to locate a turkey in the morning when I go to Alhoot.

Man, plant yourself up against a big tree or a backdrop to owl hoot. Just because if a bird's close and you hit him with a owl hoot or anything, and he wheels around and gobbles and he looks right at you and you're a six foot guy that's

You know, that's an awful big owl. You know, that bird's going to know something's up where if you're up against a tree and you're more or less hid, you're going to get away with a lot more stuff. So I always, anytime I stopped to call, whether it be a turkey call or a locator call, I really try to have myself in a situation where if I got to hit the deck and sit down real quick, I can just slide right into a spot and disappear without spooking anything.

Yeah, that's a great point. Don't go locate from out in the middle of the wide open where everything can see if they look that way. So what's your typical morning look like when you don't have a bird roosted? If you either didn't have a chance to roost the night before or maybe it's a

a farm or a piece of ground that the turkeys, you know, roost in multiple spots, kind of what's your strategy? Are you going to get up on a high point? Are you going to go to where you think they are and then, you know, walk around the property kind of what's your, what's your typical strategy when you don't have a bird roosted? Well, and that depends too, with me on, on if, you know, what farm it is, if it's farms around the house here that I know really well, and I've got a long history with the farms and the turkeys on them, I always got general areas where they're going to be at. So,

I got a real good idea. If I don't hear a bird or if I don't roost one the night before, and a lot of times around the house, our birds will not hardly gobble in the evening. Not like out in Kansas and Nebraska and stuff like that. You know, we,

for every, every 10 times we go out to roost a turkey, we might get them to gobble twice, you know? So, I mean, I don't put a lot of stock in roosting birds at night. I do a lot of listening at night. You know, I would go out and listen and listen for them to fly up and maybe gobble. But I mean, I just, if I don't hear one gobble, it's not the end of the world in my book. I'm just like, Oh, well, we'll just catch them in the morning. But yeah,

If it's a ground that I don't know a lot about like timber and spots that I'm going, I usually try to get to an advantage point. You know, I check, uh, you know, I check my on X or my hunt stand apps, look at the top. Oh, kind of get an idea. I even go to the point where I check which way the wind's blowing, uh,

that night. And usually them birds will try to get out of that wind. So I think, okay, if the wind's been blowing strong coming out of the North and birds are probably going to be on a South facing hillside, you know, down off of it a little bit, not catching that wind all night long. So, um, I really kind of look at stuff like that and, uh,

I try to stay high. I literally, I don't mind staying low on a bird. I just really look for places that I can get and move on because man, a lot of times, and I, and a lot of this stuff that I'm talking about and I'm, and your listeners are listening is I've done all this stuff and I've made all these mistakes and I've screwed up countless times. So I've just learned over the years, what, what to do. So you don't do that. Uh, so I, I just basically try to get it to a spot where I can have an advantage and move.

So if a turkey does gobble and he's not, I'm not in a position I can get, you know, I can't set up right there and call to him. I want to be able to move on that bird and get in a position that I can. So I try not to get myself too high up on a knob where I'm kind of stuck up there or in a spot where I can't back out of without that bird spooking me, you know, without me spooking him.

So that's, that's the key. And a lot of that's just scout. Like I said, it goes back to the basic scouting, scouting, scouting. The more, you know, and the more, even better know your terrain, the better off you're going to be.

Yep. And then, you know, you guys hunting primarily Easterns out there versus us hunting, you know, Merriams, Rios. It's like a completely different game. You know, those Merriams will gobble more time on the, you know, more times at that nighttime roost than they will throughout the whole day, which to me is crazy versus when we do go to Kansas, the east side and hunt, you know, you know.

they won't barely gobble at night. Like you had mentioned, you know, you won't get them to roost near as much. And you go back in the morning and the dang things are right there. They just didn't make a peep as they flew up that night. So yeah, different subspecies are just like, you know, why they all are all turkeys. They, uh, they've got different little, um, you know, quirks and different things that work.

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Now I'm going to kind of break down the day. You know, one, this is where I really struggled kind of as a, as a new turkey hunter is different strategies I should be using throughout the day. So we talked a little bit about, you know, hunting the roost, but what is, what's your go-to on the roost? Are you getting a hundred yards, 150 yards from the tree? Are you calling? Are you just sitting there? Like, what's your, what's your best strategy when you've got a bird in the roost and you're in, you know, exactly what tree is in?

Okay. That's a, you know, a lot of it as far as distance wise really is determined by the terrain that you're in. You know, it could be a really early spring and there's not a lot of foliage. So you just can't get that close to that bird where, you know, give it three weeks and it really greens up. You can get in a lot closer on that bird. I try to stay back. You know, my ideal situation would be 75 to 100 yards.

I want to, I want that bird to be able to hear me and know where I'm at, but I don't want that bird to just be able to look from the roost right down where I'm at. So I kind of stay off of him just a little bit. So there's a little bit of curiosity right there for that bird. So he has to come check me out. You know, I think a lot of times guys will get close in on a bird and that bird will be up on the roost and he'll be gobbling and you're trying to tree call to him. And that turkey is literally looking down there and there's like,

Man, there was no hen there last night. There was, I don't see nothing this morning, you know? So a lot of times they'll pitch down and go the other direction because something just doesn't add up. So I try to stay 75, a hundred yards off. Just really depends on the terrain. Uh, I'll soft talk to him just a little bit of tree yelping. Uh, once I get that bird to gobble at me, a lot of times I will shut down and just let him do his gobbling. I always carry a wing with me. That's one thing I carry a lot. You know, I do a lot of, you know,

And I'll take that wing. And when I know that bird's up there and it's getting closer to fly down time, I'll take and hit that wing on my leg and coming down. Like I just flew out of the tree because you can't get no more realistic than an actual set of wings coming out of a tree. I mean, that's what turkeys do every morning, every night. So when that bird hears that he automatically thinks that's a turkey. So you don't have to be a great caller to kill turkeys, you know, and that's, that's, you know,

just how it is but if you can keep it as realistic as a real turkey you're going to kill a lot more so when he hears that wing that takes that level of realism up to him where okay that hen just flew out of the ground off out of the tree onto the ground and now she's on the ground so a lot of times he'll gobble at that and when he does i may hit him with this you know a couple notes you help just but

you know, just something late. No, I'm still there. And then I just shut up and let him fly down and do his thing. And most of the time off the, you know, now that changes, he may have hens with him right in there. And then at that point, you know, I try to get them hens talking and, uh, you know, try to get them hens to feed into me and work in my way. You know, a lot of times that'll lead him. She'll fly down and pull him right away from you because she doesn't want the competition. So if, if a situation like that arises, uh,

I just dog them turkeys, you know, I let them get out of sight and I just kind of, you know, if that's the only game, if that's the only turkey I've heard and that's the only game in town, I just shadow them until I can get to a spot where I can either a get in front of them or, you know, I've followed birds all morning long until the hens finally, you know,

were bred and left and went to nest and then i'll work on him from there so i i definitely stay in the game if i can you know if i got time or if that bird stays on my property you know he may he may a lot of times guys will hunt them and they'll fly down and get on another guy's property so what do you do at that point well if i know that's the only bird there i'm going to set up and wait on him if i know there's multiple birds i may back out of there not pressure him

Because I think one of the biggest mistakes you can do on any of them birds is spook them. And that's, uh, yeah, that's, you know, like I said before, they don't have, they don't tell time and they don't know you got to be at work by nine o'clock or 10 o'clock in the morning. And, uh, I don't want to rush a hunt. And as bad as I am.

as bad as i want to shoot the turkey i don't want to rush a situation and spook a turkey or make a bad shot on him because then you just you just took your whole game and you lost so you know then you got to go find another bird on another piece of property and you know when i was growing up as a kid we didn't have a ton of turkeys right around my house so the ones you did here you had to make sure you were you know you had to hunt them it may take you an extra day or two to get him killed but you didn't spook him because once you spooked him yeah it was checkmate

Yeah. You had to capitalize on the few birds you had. So on the roost, um, real quick decoy or no, or depends, uh, you know, if it's early season, um, and I, and I am field hunting, I run decoys, uh, especially during you season. So I can pull them birds attention off of me and the youth or me, you know, just me.

You know, if I'm field hunting, I'll run a decoy. If I'm timber hunting, I rarely pack decoys. I'm pretty much trying to get in a terrain situation where that bird's got to fly down and walk up. And when he walks up in to look for the hen, he's within range. So that's, that's my goal, you know, catch him over a little crest in the hill or over a little knob or, you know, a bend in a logging road or something like that. So when he walks around it, I can shoot him. But, uh, decoys are, uh,

Oh man, they're, they're phenomenal. I mean, they've gotten so good over the years. They look, I mean, guys are using mounted birds all the way through. So, uh, yeah. And, and a case too, I try to put those decoys out in the field, you know, well, you know, if you're running decoys, like I said, get, get out there early, set them birds out there early, way before the gray light starts that way, you know, you're all set up in position. The birds are out there, you know, and that way when that gobbler does wake up and they come down, there's no chance of you spooking them.

Yep.

Um, all right. So we've, you know, birds kicked off the roost. They go the opposite way. You don't get a shot at them. What's your hunt look like, you know, after fly down into late morning and what's your strategy? You, you kind of mentioned if it goes to another property, you're going to kind of hang out since that's the only bird in town. Um, what's your strategy there? Yeah. You know what it did? It depends if like I'm on public ground, I've got a lot of ground to cover. I may go ahead and mark that bird and know where he's going to. And I may jump off of him and go try to find another bird that's gobbling.

And then from there, I'm pretty aggressive. I'm, you know, I'm walking, hitting locator calls, looking for fresh sign. You know, don't ever underestimate too, when you're walking down through the woods and you're walking and you see fresh sign that was made that morning, them turkeys are close or somewhere right in there. So at that point,

Slow down and start watching and listening and maybe, maybe find a good spot to set up if it's fresh sign. And especially if you see some gobbler tracks and stuff like that and, uh, hit some calls. If you think, you know, like, again, if you know the birds are there and in that area, definitely set up on them and try to call them. You know, you might be surprised. They may be right just around the bend of the road or over the ridge. And once you sit down and hit a call.

you know, they'll gobble and come on in on you. So, uh, my mid midday is I just, you know, I'm pretty, I kind of hunt my, I always tell Cody, I hunt like a coyote, you know, I stay low, I stay out of sight, but I keep moving and I'm constantly looking. Uh, if I'm on property around the house where I don't have a lot of ground, I can, I can really just jump on. I'll either make the decision to bail off the property and go, go to another chunk and check it. Or if I think them birds are going to come back that mid morning, uh,

I'll set up and just wait on them. More or less, you almost go to a deer hunting mode then, which I rarely do just because I'm active. I want to be out there. That'd be kind of like deer hunting an elk for you. That can get pretty tedious. I'd rather have that turkey gobbling and that elk bugling than just sitting there waiting on one to come in. So I'm pretty active.

Yeah. And, and one thing I've noticed, um, we're lucky here in Washington, we've got three subspecies. We've got Easterns here on the West side of the state. And then we've got Rios and a majority of them are Merriam's on the Northeast and Southeast side. I think Southeast or Rios, but I've been able to hunt in all the locations in both the Easterns I've hunted here in Washington state and in Kansas. Um, man, that midday hunting is,

It's just tough to pull a gobble out from them, especially, I would say, from April 20th to May 10th. It's just...

we've, we've seen it. We can get a gobble out of a midday, but it just seems a lot tougher where like Merriam's lend themselves. They seem to gobble all day long. If they're there, they hear a shot gobble. They hear Turkey calls the, and then Rio's are kind of a mix between both. It may be a little bit tougher to pull a gobble out. And that's one thing I just wanted to kind of put out there is in my experience, you know, having, you know, five, six years of hunting Easterns here, plus hunting Easterns, they just, they're a little tougher bird and, you know,

I think they lend, they, they, they make you think that there's not as many birds on the landscape when, when there are, um, especially on some of these properties with lots of cameras and stuff, we can see where the bird, you know, that there are birds there when we're not there. When we go and check cameras after the hunt, he's like, well, dang, that thing was right next to us. And we were, you know, we were a ridge over or whatnot. We couldn't hear him. Um, so that's one thing that I've noticed. Um,

you know, just, just between the different subspecies that we've got to hunt, um, midday. And then one thing I like midday is, you know, you get later in the season. We used to always, our season goes all the way to the end of May here. Um,

Easterns and Merriams both and the Rios that we've got to hunt is when those... You get into the middle of May and all those hens are either starting to sit or their clutches are about full or they're sitting full day. That's when the hunting gets good and you're going to kill those older birds in my opinion. So when we...

When I was learning cutting my teeth turkey hunting, like midday was like you went back to camp, had a big breakfast, hung out until the night hunt. You know, we always thought we could only kill them when they were gobbling. But we've actually started killing, I would say, the majority of our birds midday. Once you get that gobble, that gobble is worth a whole lot more than those morning gobbles as far as finding that bird and killing it.

Oh yeah. Yeah. That's a, you know, in Missouri we can only hunt till one o'clock. So after one o'clock we were fishing, you know, we're, we're done. And some days if the weather's good and the turkeys ain't gobbling, I'm just going to go fishing earlier. But, uh, you know, and it's one of them things like that's, that's a great deal with the locator calls, uh,

uh, you know, uh, owl scream or a coyote, not a coyote holiday, but an owl scream or like a Pilea to woodpecker or something like that. Just one time to get that bird to gobble midday one time, just to give up his location. That's going to help you immensely because most of the time when you get, if you can get a bird to gobble midday and get him fired up,

He's killable. He's either had hens left him. Up until noon and 1 o'clock, I have more success around the house here at 11, 30, 12, and 1 getting birds to gobble and getting them killed than I do at 8, 9, 10 o'clock in the morning.

So, and then as the season goes on and once the hens start getting bred and they're hitting the nest and stuff like that, then the gobblers are definitely starting to pick back up and make more tracks and be more vocal. Now, when I'm decoying in the spring of the year, like early season, I'll run a Jake decoy, a couple hen decoys, stuff like that. And then, then birds will come in and a lot of times I'm gobblers will go right to that Jake decoy because they want to assert their dominance and fight that Jake for the hens.

As it gets later in the season, I dropped the Jake decoy and I just go with a hen. That way, when that gobbler pops around the corner, he can see a hen out there, but there's no other gobblers for him to contend with or fight because he's

The, you know, the way I hunt the birds is you got to understand their breeding cycle and early season. They're aggressive. They're wanting to fight. They're just like pre-rut with a deer. You know, they're sparring, they're going at it. Once the mating starts and the gobbling kind of hits a low, then birds are actively mating and

them gobblers don't want no competition they don't want another gobbler coming in you know challenging them off the hens and stuff like that so that's when all the goblin quits and they get quiet well once the hens start nesting and the gobblers are starting to find themselves more alone

They still want to come to the hens, but they still don't want the competition of another gobbler because they know the hens are scarce. So that's when I drop if, you know, if I'm running a decoy again, I'll drop down to one hen. A lot of times the grass and stuff starting to get taller late season, you know, from early on. So I avoid any of the wheat fields or any of the hay fields early morning because they're all wet and the birds usually don't like getting in that wet. They wait till it's dry.

you know, mid morning on. So if it's a field that, you know, and you, you have to watch your turkeys. This is a big thing I can say about scouting. You, even though you scout before season, you also need to be paying attention to scouting during season, because just like elk hunting or deer hunting as a mating season progresses and the temperature changes and the terrain changes, whether it be leaves greening up or grass getting taller, you have to adapt and change with that because the, because the turkeys are changing with it.

So the situation, the place you set up early season is,

that you killed a bird off of that was just on fire three weeks later is dead because the birds are not using it because a, the grass got up to, you know, over knee high. And, you know, so they went to another field, you know, cut cornfield or something like that. So they've, they've changed their locations a little bit. So, uh, the whole time you're the whole time season's going, don't, you know, don't stop scouting the birds. Cause that's, uh, that's a big mistake. A lot of guys do they, they hold on to something like,

Man, I had birds here all spring and now they're not here and they're not gobbling. Well, they're there still. They just might've moved over a ridge or, you know, they might have hens with them. So they quit gobbling. So just the big thing with turkeys is you just have to really watch them because, you know, early season when they're all grouped up, you may have eight or nine gobblers in your flock. And then within two days, you might be down to one gobbler because all the rest of them split up to go find their own territories. Yeah.

So, you know, that's, so it's, it's just like deer elk or anything. The more you scout.

you know, the better off you're going to be and, you know, talk to your farmers, talk to your other buddies. Uh, the more information, you know, knowledge is King. So the more, you know, and the more, you know, watching the weather, you got storms coming in and you know, that you're going to have a bad winds out of the, you know, North, like I said before, storms and birds are going to roost low that morning. I'm not going to go to a high spot. I'm going to get down there in the bottom where I know them birds are at, you know, where there was roosting at that night before. So, uh,

Just, you know, take everything into consideration when you're easing in in the mornings and during the day's hunt. If the wind's picking up during the midday, like you probably, out west, you guys probably get it all the time. Like Kansas, Nebraska is terrible. Midday, I try to get in them low spots where them birds can get out of them wind and where they can do their thing without, you know, just getting pounded by wind constantly. So take that into consideration when you're on your midday hunts, getting in a spot where the birds can actually hear you calling, you know, because if it's windy and

you're blowing it. If you're running a call and the wind's hitting you in the face, your sound's not carrying very far. So try to, you know, use that wind to your advantage. You get in spots where you're calling and that sounds carrying a long ways with the wind.

Yeah, those are all great points. I know you've hunted, you know, nights in some other states that you've hunted in, but I was going to ask you kind of what your late afternoon to fly up looks like. We're going to skip that since it sounds like you guys can't hunt past one o'clock there in Missouri. Well, Kansas and Nebraska and places like that I've hunted where you can hunt nights and stuff like that. Kentucky, we can hunt nights and Tennessee and through there. You know what? I...

A lot of times it goes back to scouting. A lot of the areas in Kansas and places like that, then birds are going to roost in the same general areas that they were from night to night to night. I'm going to slide in there a couple hours early.

you know, catch me a nap up against the tree, but I'm going to be somewhere in their general vicinity where they're at. And then, uh, as it's getting closer to dark, I'll have a good setup and I'm going to start calling to them and try and get them birds coming in. Cause you know, Rios and, uh, Rios and Merriam's all like that, man. They got long legs. They can cover a lot of ground quick. And all of a sudden getting close to dark, all of a sudden you got a parade of turkeys coming right in on top of, and you hit them with a call, man, they'll light up and go now.

Kentucky, places like that where the birds don't generally, like around my house, I don't think my turkeys roost in the same tree their whole life. I think they pick a different tree every night just to drive me crazy. But Kentucky is the same way. You know, there's a lot of spots. They may be on the same ridge, but they'll never be in the same spot exactly. So.

When that happens, I just kind of pick a spot that I know I can get in and out of good. And I know I've got a little bit of advantage, you know, I'll check the wind and stuff like that and, uh, set up and I just wait on them, you know, hit them with some soft calls. And if I, if they gobble and come in, that's awesome, but I'm sitting there listening to, so if I hear them fly up, I'll know there's birds there for the morning. So.

That's what I do. If I, if I can hunt all day and we've had great success in the evening time, you know, I mean, it's, it's for me that I've never got to hunt the evening when I get to go someplace that I can't hunt the evening. I want to just because it's something new and exciting to me. You know, I I've been up plenty of mornings at three 30 stomping through the woods to go get a bird off the limb, but I'm excited when they're getting ready to fly up on one and I can, uh, get in there and work them because I've found that the birds in the evening time are, are they're, they're killable. There ain't no issues there. Yeah.

Thanks. Thanks for, thanks for kind of lining out, you know, your strategies throughout the day. Now we're going to kind of jump into calling, um,

How important is calling to your success? And then how important is good calling? If you could break that down, you know, I'm assuming, you know, you're, you're a call builder. You love to call. You're like me. We like to add that. And that's what we're out there for. But, but how important is it? And then, you know, the same thing we always get, do we have to call it, you know, elk as good as you to be able to call elk in or, you know, so how important is calling? How important is good calling? Oh man.

I, you know, I'm a, I'm a call builder. I love to hear myself call. I'm guilty as charged. I want to make that turkey gobble 5,000 times just to like, you know, I love it. But as far as,

You know, calling is important and I'll stress this out. You know, I mean, I've called competitions since I've been in high school. So, I mean, to me, if I'm going to go out there and make an animal sound, I want it to be correct. Exactly like, you know, if I'm locating birds, I want to sound exactly like an owl, sound like a crow. I think the more realistic and natural you are and the proper volume you are, I think the better success you'll have because that's what the birds are used to hearing.

Uh, you don't have to be a good caller to kill turkeys. What you have to have is woodsmanship and the knowledge of knowing turkeys and knowing where they're wanting to go. So if you're across the woven wire fence and you got a hot gob or I don't care how good a caller you are, he does. And if he doesn't want to cross that fence, he's not going to come across it. Where if you had a little bit of knowledge of that fence and you set up where there was a hole in it or where you could shoot to the fence, uh,

You to kill that turkey with, you know, hardly minimal calling. So, uh, I mean, take for instance, uh, Indians used to use, uh, cherry leaves and, and wing bones. And if you've heard those calls, they, they roughly imitate a turkey sound. I wouldn't call them a good sound. I'd call them good enough to fool a turkey. And that's what, and that's all it takes. So you don't have to be a champion caller to kill turkeys by no means.

Um, you know, I think being a better woodsman and knowing where the birds are wanting to go and putting yourself in a position where you can kill them. Turkeys is the big thing. So, I mean, if you get off work and you're driving to the ice cream shop, you know, I mean, if you can get in between there, you know, what's going to go on. You can, you know, same way with the turkeys. If you know them, turkey's going to fly down and run to a watering hole.

and get some water. If you can get in between there and then you can sound like a turkey, whether it be just a little bit or, you know, excellent, then birds are going to swing by right there because they're on their way anyway. So, and trust me, when I first started turkey calling, I sounded like I got slammed in a screen door. So my first turkey hunt, I sounded, dude, I sounded like a coyote in a hen house killing chickens. It didn't sound like a turkey, trust me, but the turkey still gobbled at it and they came in, you know? So, I mean-

Now, that being said, if you can call and, and call good, I've had situations that I have been able to pull birds that let's say, and you know, an average, I wouldn't be able to, where I've had them, let's say across the river or something like that, where I've just showered down on them with really crazy calling and stuff like that. And I kind of have an unfair advantage if I'm hunting with my Cody or Carter, cause those two can call.

Like a house of fire. So a lot of times we'll set up and it'll sound like two or three hens over there all calling at once. And I mean, we just, we drive them turkeys nuts till they've got to fly over. They've got to come over and check us out. So, you know, good calling does have its advantages, uh, in certain situations, but I will honestly say 95% of the time or 97% of the time, even fact, uh,

Uh, just being able to, you know, do your basic Yelp, your basic cluck, your basic purr. As long as you're set up where that bird needs to be, you know, a wing is a great example. Like I use a wing in the morning to fly down with, you can't get no more Turkey than that. And you don't even have to make a sound. You just have to, you know, bring it down, you know, beat it across your leg. When you come down, uh, if you're in a spot where they want to be and you know, them Turkey's going to be there, you can kill them, but no problem at all.

Thanks. Thanks for that. So that's a great segue into what, what, you know, we talked about what locators you carry, what turkey calls are in your vest. You're taking on every hunt. Every hunt, man. I tell you what, I take a wing bone turkey call. I started out my whole turkey calling career learning how to run a wing bone. So I take a wing bone with me.

Um, and, and a wing bone is a great call cause it's a very soft call or you can get as loud as you want on it and it carries extremely long ways. So, I mean, I will, I will match a wing bone up against any, uh, box call or any friction call as far as sound carrying in the woods, as far as if you're like,

trying to locate a bird. I mean, I've had birds gobble at it before where you could see their heads and necks stick out, but you couldn't hear them gobble. So, I mean, it's a good call to carry. It's a, you know, doesn't take up a lot of room. I always carry a few mouth calls. You know, I run a couple of double reeds. I'll run a couple of triple reeds, different cuts, you know, split Vs. Basically what I'm wanting is different calls that have different sounds because every hen sounds different and, you

You know, if, if I'm out in the woods, here's a great story. And I'll, I'll get back on the turkey calls in a second. I was out in the public ground a couple of years ago and I had this gobbler and man, I could not get this bird killed. I just couldn't get him killed. He was outsmarting me every time. And I was just like, going to start taking up crappie fishing for a living. And I had a hen walk by one day and she did like a two note Yelp and she was real high pitch. I mean, she was just like, just like that. And I was like,

Holy cow. And I, and he gobbled him and they hooked up and, you know, went on. So the next morning I got in there and I was digging through my mouth calls and I had a single read mouth call, which I keep in there because a lot of times if I'm out hunting and I see a coyote or something like that, I'll throw that single read in. I'll try to like squeak him up and get him shot. And, uh, so I took that mouth call and I hit it and I was just like, yep, yep, yep. Just like that Turkey and, uh, that high pitch at bird gobbled at it. And he came right to me and I killed him.

And it wasn't, and it was, it wasn't, you know, I'd do every mouth call, every box call, every friction call I had at him. And he, and he'd gobble at it, but he'd never come in because he was used to hearing that certain sound. And once I pinpointed it, you know, I did it. So that's why I carry several mouth calls. They're small. You can fit them in a pouch easy. There's, you know, they're minimal, so you can carry a lot of them.

Uh, as far as that, I always carry a couple of friction calls. I carry a slate call. I'm a slate junkie. I love slate just because it's soft. A lot of times in Missouri where we're at, you know, we're doing tree yelps, clucks and purrs, uh, you know, just soft stuff, tree talk. And, uh, then I carry my aluminum, you know, aluminum call. I know Steve, I was carrying Steve's aluminum call before, you know, before he started with you guys and designing that one that we did with, you know, one that he did with the Osage and, uh, that thing's a monster. So I, you know, I was, I'm carrying that all the time and that's more for the

you know, aggressive, getting a little bit louder, stuff like that. It still does all the soft stuff. Great. But, uh, that aluminum has just got a sound that that slate doesn't have. And on certain days and birds will gobble great at it. So I've got my two friction calls. I got my mouth calls. I got a wing bone. I will carry a box call. Uh, I'm hit or miss on a box call. Sometimes I'll carry it. If I'm out West, I seem to carry a little bit more than I do if I'm around the house.

Just because I know my birds and I kind of got an idea of what I'm going to be setting up on and stuff like that. But I mean, I've had days before where the box call was the only call that made the turkey gobble and everything else just didn't work. You know, uh, a lot of guys, and we can segue on that. A lot of guys, I carry, I carry multiple calls because certain days, certain turkeys will gobble and work in better on certain calls. So, uh,

break that down for you. You know, last year I was on a bird here by the house, uh, working him and he was gobbling really good at all everything I was throwing, but he was just hanging up. He just wasn't doing, he wasn't advancing towards me. He was just sitting there gobbling and basically, you know, in nature, the, the hens go to the gobblers. So we're reversing nature and having the gobblers come hunt us up. So he was gobbling good. He just wasn't coming in and nothing. And I pulled out that aluminum call and hit him with that. And

and it turned him inside out. He just lost it. And I mean, I don't know what it triggered in his mind or what, why that sound that day grabbed him, but man, it grabbed him and he broke and came, you know, he actually left two hens and came in right into me. So the multiple calls you can carry, the better you are as far as, you know, being in the game, you don't want to get out there and have one call and then the bird not answering it.

And then what do you do? You know, then you're kind of stuck. So I carry a friction call, you know, my two friction calls. I usually carry about four strikers because every striker will have a little bit different sound. So the idea, you know, sound like the turkey that they want to hear that day. So that's, that's the key.

Gotcha. Let's talk a little bit about the new Harrison Hooter and Harrison Hooter Pro. You guys have been calling in contests the last three weekends. The calls did exceptionally well, but we kind of got together and the Harrison Hooter is kind of what we'd call our standard hooter.

um, you know, fixed, fixed exhaust Hooter. And then we've got the Harrison Hooter pro you brought to me. Um, like, Hey, how do we, how do we get this adjustable? And, and we talked, you know, between me and you, we came up with different orifices and kind of, you know, came up with that design, uh, you know, your idea. And then we kind of worked on O-rings and ways to make it all work. Um, so now I believe when we make the claim, it's the first adjustable Hooter out there. Um,

And it's full acrylic on that one. So give us a quick rundown on those two for all the listeners out there. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, the, you know, I've been designing outhooders for a while and I'm passionate about these outhooders. And it's kind of like you are with the elk.

So, you know, the Harrison Hooter, which we made out of hard maple, you know, we went with the maple just because maple's a great tone wood, plus it's just tough. You know, maple you can abuse, you can hunt it, and it's still going to have a great sound. That's a fixed call. It has three exhaust holes in the bottom. You know, we set the insert in it, and that's your sound. It's got a good, nice, rich sound to it.

Uh, it's really smooth. That's the one I've been running in competition. You know, uh, a lot of guys are, you know, a lot, you know, Turkey calling contest, you get guys and, uh, I'm guilty of it too. You want to build a race car. I call them race cars. You know, my, my original out here that I won a lot of contests with was a race car. I built it specifically for contest and,

And there was only one of them. And it was the one I ran, uh, this go around on this Harrison Hooter. When I got it done, it was so good that I am running, you know, at the all American this year, you know, at the grand nationals at the rolling thunder, I'm running a production out who are on stage. And that's, that's really what I wanted. I wanted guys to be able to go by our call.

You know, and have the confidence to walk on a stage or any set of woods and have a call of that caliber and that quality that they could, you

They could do whatever they wanted with it. You know, a lot of times you go to a sports show. I've seen this in past and the guy will have a call around his neck and he's blowing it or whatever he's doing, you know, Turkey call, whatever. And you're like, man, let me buy that one. He's like, no, that's my personal one. You know? Well, I can honestly say with me and you working on these things that our production calls is as good as my contest calls. I mean, they're all the same as one. So the quality is there. So that's, um, man, I'm so excited and stoked about that. And then, um,

The Harrison Hooter Pro, that idea came to me, you know, a long time ago when I was contest calling a lot. I wanted to be able to change pitches and tones per room I was calling in. So if I was in a small room, I could change it. Or if I was in a big room, I could change it, you know, volume, pitch, stuff like that. And then I got playing with that idea and making some prototypes. And I found that, you know, forget the contest idea of it. You know, that's an awesome deal. But the fact that now...

An individual can take that call and tune it to how they run a call. Cause that's the biggest problem I've found with a lot of calls, whether it be an elk call, duck call or anything, everybody's at a different level of calling or they run it different or they hold their hands different or they hold their, you know, they blow air through a call different with that adjustable owl hooter. You can actually tweak and tune that call to how you like it. So if you're in an open area or a guy that likes to blow a lot of air pressure, you can open it up and use it that way.

And, you know, have that sound that you want, or if you're a, you know, a light air pressure guy and you want to build that back pressure, you can choke that call down and, um, make it softer and quieter where if you're in a, like I said, a hardwood timbers and you don't want to blast that Turkey off the limb, uh, uh,

you know, you can go that route. So the adjustable aisle hooter in my world is, uh, the cats, the cats meow. I mean, it'll do so much and it has so much versatility and so much range that it's, it's crazy. And the acrylic is, is, you know, you know, as well as I do when it comes to acrylic, the sound quality on acrylic is just, it's just, it's got a sound of its own that is just so clean and so clear. And, uh,

On the owl hooters on both of them, you know, an owl is only so big and he's only so loud, but that tone that they make carries so far through the woods. And that's one thing I'm happy about them owl hooters that they hit that tone spot on and you don't have to really blast them loud to get that out. They get that sound to carry through the woods. So, I mean, it's, uh, I'm tickled to death. The, you know, the guy, the guys we got turned in the barrels for us and stuff are absolutely perfect.

You know, putting them together was a breeze. I mean, every one of them has been just a home run all the way around. Yep.

No, I'm, I'm excited how they turned out. Um, our, our first batch of the wood ones that you're using on stage already sold out, but we've got a replenishment coming in by time this drops on Thursday, we should have them back in stock there hopefully. But yeah, they're doing real well. And, you know, I, I, I've told you before, you know, back in the day where I use the old Palmer tube and, you know, these things, you know, that had a great sound to it, but these things, in my opinion, um, or, you know, just, just surpassed it. And, and,

and, uh, sound quality, the ability to crank the volume up. If I'm trying to locate a bird out in the open versus like you said, dial it back. Um, if we're in a little hardwood draw, um, I think the Hooter pro is just, is, is where it's at for, for hunting alcohol. Um, and, and really appreciate you taking that on and letting us be a part of it, James, and being able to add it to our lineup. So, Oh man, I'm, I'm tickled that, uh, you, you know, you guys got it. That's for sure. I mean, we're, we're, I'm excited to be working with you cause, uh,

you know, we were just taking it to the, you know, like I said, on a lot of my stuff, I said, we're, we're taking locator calls to the next level. And, uh, I think that's what the outers, you know, it's, it's just like your elk calls and just like the deer runners we worked on. We don't ever settle for satisfied. We're always working and always trying to make something better because no, even as, even as good as that adjustable out who there is, I can promise you, I'm already thinking about how ways I can make it just a little bit better here and there a little bit tweaks because it's,

You know, that's why we work so good together with James Harrison Phelps Game Calls is we're always trying to strive for something better. And getting the hunter the quality product that, you know, they're spending their hard-earned money for that, you know. And I take that serious that they're spending their money and we're putting a product out that they can count on and rely on.

And I don't have to worry, you know, when I, when I, I know they're getting the best product that from both of us, because everything so far we've done has been phenomenal. And, uh, I see nothing but awesome, you know, future ahead. Yeah.

In closing here, James, what is one tip you feel you'd give, uh, that you could give that would give turkey hunters better odds in finding success this year? Oh man, my one tip, I guess if I had to be, and this is going to be an old man tip as a man, patience, patience, and, and scout a lot, you know, the more patience you can have. Like I said, turkeys don't wear watches, you know, when you're in the woods hunting, whether it be, you know, a turkey elk or whatever, you're on their time.

So I try not to push situations. I watched the birds. The more you can learn about them, the better off you're going to be. The more you can scout them, the better off and more success you're going to have. And just having the patience, you know, don't, you know, just like you said, hunting Easterns, you know, you, the birds was there and you just couldn't hear them, but they were just right there the whole time. You know, patience is the key. I guess if you wanted to be, if I had to tell one, you know, people, one thing is just have patience.

You know, I mean, we live in a world of instant. Now, you know, if, if I have a question, I can Google it and it's there automatically in the Turkey woods, they don't have Google. So, uh, patience is a key patience, patience, patience. All right. Thanks for that one. In closing, how can people find out more about you? You know, some of the other calls, some of your, even your custom stuff you're still doing, um, you and you and Cody and Carter and your guys is hunting. Uh, how can people find out more about you?

I've got the Facebook page. It's Harrison Custom Calls. That's usually where I just put my hand-turned, one-of-a-kind owl hooters on, make them out of different woods or exotics and stuff like that. We have Instagram, which is Harrison Custom Calls, or just James Harrison. Cody's on there, too. He's Cody Harris and then Carter. We're

We're pretty reachable. Just look for us there, and then we'll be all over the spring as far as Kentucky, Missouri, hunting, and a little bit everywhere. I'm going to try to, since you've got so many turkeys out in Washington, I'm just going to try to start looking for plane tickets, come out there and kill some turkeys out there. There you go. You can literally land in Spokane, go any direction, and you'll be fine. It's good. One of these days, we need to get you out here and just plan a hunt and put it on the books. It'll be a blast. Put a big turkey camp together. Yeah.

I really appreciate having you on. Yeah, really appreciate having you on today, James, and good luck this spring. And I'm sure we'll be in touch all week as we're building more owl hooters and getting stuff, you know, getting great hunting calls out to all the customers and listeners out there. Awesome. I appreciate the time, man. Thanks, dude. Yep. Take care.

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