Boy Air & How To Be Alone and Happy
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People who put on rose-covered glasses to not be single and how that can hurt you. So you're making all these exceptions for the guy you're dating because you're afraid to be single.

So it's funny when I told people I was writing a book called How to Be Single and Happy, they told me that I should write a follow-up called How to Be Married and Happy. Who we pick to partner with is such a big decision. It matters more than so many other decisions that we make in our lives. This is the person that you might spend the rest of your life with. This is the person you might raise a family with. This is a really big deal. And so we don't want to go into looking for love with such anxiety that

that we're just willing to take whatever we can and fill in like, you know, concerns with positive assumptions. We want to make sure that the person that we're with makes us feel good, has similar values as a decent human being, because life is hard enough without having someone by your side that makes it harder. We're your besties in your ear for another episode of Mean Girl Pod. Mwah!

Welcome back to another episode of Mean Girl Pod. So it's Valentine's Day week and Alex we have a very excited up very exciting episode today. Yes we do. We're gonna talk all about all of our fun usual shenanigans and then at the end we've got a great interview with Jenny Tate's about how to be single and happy which applies to me you Alana and we're all three in different stages of life so it's gonna be awesome. Yeah I'm super excited. Isn't that so funny? I feel

I feel like we talk about that a lot, but we don't really talk about it. And everyone always talks to us about it. It's so funny that you're single, you're married, and you're in a relationship. I'm like, yeah, I guess it is really funny. Hilarious. I'm so glad they said go out.

I love being single, actually. I do, I do. I do. No, I'm happy. I'm happy. Alex, how are you feeling? I feel so great. How do you feel? Fake it till you find it. That's the motto today.

Fake it till you find it. I like that. My volleyball coach used to always tell me that. I would be like, I don't like if you're a little tired today or something, you fake it till you find it. Instead of fake it till you make it. Fake it till you find it. I think I like fake it till you find it better. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I like that. If you have to choose between the two, fake it till you find it's better. Because that's insinuating you got it in there. Yeah. Like it is there. You just haven't found it. Yeah, like I'm definitely tired, but like I can find some energy. What do you think about if you're not cheating, you're not trying? Yeah.

Wait, what? If you're not cheating, you're not trying. I'm not cheating? Isn't cheating bad? That's the other thing you used to say. If you're not cheating, you're not trying? If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. I don't understand that one. How does that work? Most of the time, I think the immediate response to that is it's not good because you would never want somebody to be a cheater. But I think, you know, if you were cheating in a sport,

Which you should not do, but you are trying. I mean, karma always ends up bad. I like work harder, or work smarter, not harder. That's my favorite. That's a good one. Because whenever I feel guilty about not working really hard, I'm like, yeah, I'm working smarter today, though. I cannot, like...

If I cheated or like if I stole a pencil that was 89 cents, like I just have my father in my head and it is just like you return that pencil. Yeah. If I cheat, I think I would tell the ref if I cheated. I'd be like, I did it. I can't stomach it. No. The only thing I could cheat on maybe are like tests. That's because I hate school. So. So that's if you're not cheating, you're not trying. That's that's a bit where like that happens.

I think it's okay to cheat on things that don't matter in life. Like school. I'm just kidding. I was like, I can't even say yes to that. No, like don't cheat. But I'm saying like I was horrible at math in school and I knew I was never going to do anything with it. So I got some help along the way. You know, my eyes would peer to the Scantron next to me on occasion, especially in math class. Yep. But the Scantron, I've heard that word so long. Scantron. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I used to just decorate those things. I can see that. I was like, you know, like, I just, I don't know. I feel like you were such a little shit in high school. Speaking of being a little shit, this show is presented by not a little shit. The one, the only, Pink Whitney. We're the little shit. We're the little shits. Head to your local bar today. Shoot your shot. Especially, now we're in February. It's kind of the season of love. Shoot your shot. Wait, Alex, Valentine's Day, what are the colors?

Pink. Pink. A Pink Whitney shooter or anything would be so cute. People should definitely give the gift of Pink Whitney. You have one day when this comes out, so go to the store. Yeah. And also, if you have a Galentine's, which I think Galentine's is so much fun. I would almost rather do Galentine's than I would celebrate with Graham. I'm doing that. Yeah, I think that's so fun. Give little glasses of Pink Whitney. Wait, cute.

So head to your local bar today, buy some Pink Whitney shots, your local liquor store, grab a bottle, some shooters, and enjoy Pink Whitney because it is the best vodka in the world. I haven't had a male Valentine in so many years. Don't. This isn't loaded. But like, have you had a male? You dated that guy for a long time. Yes. This isn't loaded. But no. Yeah. No, I've had I've had in high school.

I dated a guy for like two years and I dated a guy for a year. So they were Valentines. And then my boyfriend of five years was my Valentine for five years. But since 2018, I haven't had a Valentine. That's a male. I seem to date around Valentine's

Yeah, well, I was what I more so meant was like, have you had like I've never had a Valentine that I wasn't dating like a Valentine, like only not a boyfriend, but a Valentine. I've never had one. I don't think I don't think anyone's ever like sent me unsolicited flowers or a present on Valentine's Day that I wasn't my boyfriend. I've had a Valentine. Really? He gave me a fish.

Cute. It was really funny. Oh, like a fish with a bag. He had it in a fish bowl. It was in high school and it was delivered to my door and it was a fish. That's really cute. Yeah. It was actually... I still remember it, so that's pretty good. Wait, yeah, no, I've never had like...

Someone where I'm like, maybe they'll send me something. Maybe they won't. Maybe this year that will happen. I don't know. You never know. I think that to me is like... Valentine's Day is fine, right? But I think it's, you know, do some chocolate, do whatever. But I think the slight crushes that pop in and send you something, that's a day maker. Also...

I think if you have a crush on a girl, send them something on Valentine's Day. It's not that serious. No, at least no girls I know would be like, oh my God, they want to be my boyfriend. They would actually probably think it's the cutest thing and think it's kind of funny. Yeah, I think you have to read the room with it. Yeah, but if it's...

If the guy has like a knowingly a good sense of humor. Yeah. And he's not like creepy. Like you're not to the point where you're like, can you stop texting me? Like, it's not like that. You're in the flirty stage. If you text her friend and can get her address, I think the delivery. Something like a fish too. Like it wasn't flowers. I was cracking up. Yes. And I was like, this is a good idea or like a food item or something. I'm like, you're funny. Yes. Make sure the crush is reciprocated. And yes.

Is that the right word? Resurrected? Or has an eye on you at least. Yeah. And don't be doing it to like 20 girls or guys. Just say it to like one person. I'm okay with like a cast of Widenet if you're not dating them. I'm okay with that. As long as the girls don't know each other then. Yeah, yeah. But I think it's funny if you're like, I got a couple Valentines. Wait, if I got like a text or a DM from one of my friend's crushes or a guy they were talking to like, hey, what's blah, blah, blah's address? I would die. I'd be like, oh my God.

Yeah, it's so exciting. Like someone did that to you one time for me and it was so fun. Who? When I got flowers. Oh, you. I thought you meant somebody asked you for my address and I was like, how? No, they asked you for my address. I was like, that's so fun. Like being surprised is so fun because it's so rare to be surprised nowadays. Yes. And then you're like, how'd you get my address? And then it's like, so everyone's involved. You're like, how did you get my address? You're like, I'm like, oh, cool. Like, how do you know where I live? Just kidding.

I love that. Let's do life updates. Yeah. How are you? What's happening? I'm excellent. I wrote down to Graham's good. He's been so busy, which has been really fun. I'm very proud of Graham right now. He's been like work life. He just he's been very funny. Like he read this book.

about a general in the army or something who would ask himself, he would wake up and he'd say, are you gonna be a little bitch today? It's written in the book. And he's like some seven star general. Wait, is he the guy that wrote Make Your Bed every morning? Maybe. Okay, never mind. Sorry, never mind.

Well, okay, so he asked me like two weeks ago. I was like, I don't want to go to the gym. He's like, you can be a little bitch today. And it like has rung true in my head ever since. And in like a nice way. Like don't push yourself to the point of exhaustion. But this guy was training another guy who said, how many pull-ups can you do? And the guy said, maybe seven or eight. And the guy's like, all right, here's the thing. We're going to be here until you do 100. Because you physically can do 100, and I know you can. So we're staying here. We're going to do 100. And sometimes they would do one.

And they would wait. But they didn't leave. I think it took them three hours and they did 100 pull-ups.

And afterwards, the guy was like, I could totally do that. And so I just thought that was a fun little, that's just to shed a little bit of light on where Graham's at right now. I actually love the little bitch thing. I say that to myself a lot, especially with guys. I'm like, am I going to be a little bitch or am I just going to send that text? Yeah. I always do that. I'll be at the gym and I'm like, you got two more rounds. I know you do. Stop being a little bitch. You got it in there. Yeah. Yeah. So that, okay. This is, this is my question for you. Oh, I have two questions for you.

Are these life update questions? They had to do with my life updates. Not a lot's going on. Like a lot's going on, but it's pretty routine. So I'm like nothing to report. But the other day I was laughing because Graham's like, I'll be home at 6 p.m. And I was like, perfect. Like, I'm so excited. I haven't been seeing him a lot. So I'm, you know, 6 p.m. He's not home. I'm like, he'll be here any minute. So I get on Instagram live.

And Graham's coworker joins. And he's like, Graham and I are at the office watching you. And I was like, oh, dear. Graham's office is 30 minutes away. So I'm like, I'm like, he said he'd be home at six. And then I was like, guys, he should tell me when he is coming home later. And then I was like, why would he need to tell me? Like, does Graham need to? Here's the thing. I don't cook. So he's not coming home. Dinner's not late.

I am pretty self-sufficient. So I was like, you got to tell me when you come home late. He's like laughing. He's like, why? I think, you know, the answer to this question from me. Cause he's cause of safety. No, because I'm anal as can be. Like if you're just like, I'll be home tonight. I'm like, whatever. But if someone says six o'clock and then it's not six o'clock, I'm like, where the fuck are you? I was so excited too. But usually when he comes home, I'm like, I got an hour left to start. Like I'm kind of still doing things. Yeah. And I was like, do you need to report to me when you're coming home later? And he's like, no, no,

And I'm like, oh, I think I don't know. I think I would always kind of want to know just so I can be like prepared. Yeah, I did. I was like and I think usually he tells me he'll be home at six and I never remember. He comes home at nine. I don't even know if he's ever told me. But on this particular day, I was so excited, like a little dog waiting at the door. Six p.m. And then on my life as coworkers, like Graham and I are watching from the office. I'm like, oh, you're a full forty five from walking in this door. You're like, see you never. See you never. OK, how was L.A.?

Oh, L.A. was so fun. It was your first time? Yes, it was my first time. It's broken me a bit, though. Oh, not a broken Jordan. What happened? So I went to L.A. and the energy in L.A. is unmatched. I don't want to live in L.A., but it is light, energetic. Everyone's chill, like happy.

No, like I just felt free as a bird. It's light, bright and airy. Yes. Over there in L.A. Everyone's just like chilling. There's like casually walking. No one's in a hurry. Everyone's just like, hey, what's up? How's it going? And I'm over here like because I'm from New York and I just I felt like I could breathe for the first time in so long. And now I'm spiraling a bit where I'm like, what's life like? I kind of want to just like quit my life and move to a vineyard in Napa or like move to

to the ocean and start like a little coffee shop. Like I'm like, what's, what's going on? Oh, you would be a great coffee shop owner. I would be. Yes. But you would be very structured coffee shop owner. Yeah. It'd be a very well-oiled machine. But like I, Alex, you know how much I love New York. I do. Never once in my life been like, I want to leave New York. I'm going to be honest right now. This week I've hated New York. This is why I kept waiting on.

And I kind of just gave you the text when you got there and I was like, have fun. Like, I don't need to hear from you. Kind of like the set you free text. But I was waiting on this because you don't ever want to move. Like you liked Nashville, but you don't want to live there. I was like, I don't know why, but I feel like she's going to want to move to L.A. But I don't know why I thought it. But I now I know you're so on time type A. L.A. is so hanging out that it probably.

When you're here in New York, everyone's type A and you're type A. So it's fueling your fire. But in L.A., your type A was met with like a type B's. Yeah. And I mean, I feel like what would happen. I don't like I said, I don't want to move to L.A., but it made me reconsider living in New York. And I feel like what would happen is I would live somewhere else and then I would be like,

Why are people so chill all the time? I'm gonna freak out. Everyone would be 10 minutes late without an explanation. No, see, it was a very good temporary fix that I needed, but I just like,

I don't know, the people I met out there were so great in my energy. I just I kind of had like this realization that so I went with my best friend and we hung out with a lot of her her coworkers because she her company is, I think, based in L.A. They just have a lot of people who work in L.A. And everyone we met was so nice. And I felt like I could be myself around them. I just felt so carefree and energetic and like my I just felt like my true personality. And when I came back to New York, I kind of was like, wait a second.

Am I ever my true self in New York? Because in New York, I just feel so stressed all the time and kind of like anal and like a lot of pressure from our job and life. And I just got me thinking, I'm like, what's like the true me? I started spiraling. And then I was like, isn't it interesting how you can meet people and you instantly feel like you can just be yourself. And there's some people you meet and you never feel like you can be yourself. Like I was around, um, like groups, a group of girls and guys. And I just felt like so comfortable being myself around guys. And I haven't felt that in so long because now

Not that the guys in New York are bad by any means, but for some reason, I just had the realization that the past few guys I've dated and the past, like in the past few dates I've been on, it's like this robotic version of myself. Yeah. Like I can't show them like this fun, unhinged Jordan that I have been in Minnesota and how I was in LA. And it was just really nice to be around like the opposite gender and be able to be like

myself. Are we taking unhinged and can I reframe it to a carefree? Yeah. Okay. Cause unhinged is giving, I mean, my best friend called me unhinged the other day. It's a, it's not a bad thing, but I think it means carefree. So unhinged to, yeah. Cause they, they kept throwing on that word. And to me, unhinged is psycho. Right. But to them, like, no, you're just like chill. I'm like, it's carefree. You're just like chilling. I think the thing about it is,

When you're able to be yourself, I've always found it's because everybody else in this scenario is truly being themselves. In New York, no one's where they want to be. We're all happy with where we are, but we're all trying to get somewhere else because this is the city of grit, grind. Maximizers. Yes. You don't come here just to like lay on the beach. Not literally not happening here. It's expensive to live. You have to give up stuff to live here.

In L.A., people are usually chilling. A lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of companies coming out of there, a lot. I'm not saying they're not trying. They are definitely trying. But they are down to be five minutes late. You know, and it's like I feel like they, if you're with a brand new group of friends in New York,

We're go, go, go, go, go. Meet, meet, meet. Network, network type thing. If you meet one in L.A., they're like, what's up? Wait, that's so you hit it perfectly. You just said that exactly how I was feeling. Yeah. You know, I feel like you're like I give you myself. It's like because they're all just themselves. Exactly. Because everyone's just chilling. Yeah. Yeah. It was really good. Good. And also, to be fair, it's February in New York. Who likes New York in February? January to March. Get me out of here. Seasonal depression is...

so bad right now. Yeah, you do need to see the sun. Like, it just does make you happier. Yeah. Like, yesterday there was sun, but it was freezing. I know.

I kind of want it. I hate it here. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Other than that, things are good. Quick pause to talk about better help because this show is sponsored by better help. When you are at your best, you can do great things, but sometimes life gets you bogged down and you may feel overwhelmed or like you're not showing up in the way that you want to, or as your best self working with a therapist can help you get closer to the best version of you. Because when you feel empowered, you're more prepared to take on everything that life throws at you.

The Mean Girls, we talk about it often, but we are huge proponents of therapy because we love playing offense, not defense on life. And you never know when something unexpected might happen. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option because all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and

And you can switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Having a therapist that's convenient, flexible, affordable, and entirely online is a great solution to therapy. So if you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Mean Girl today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Mean Girl. Okay, yesterday we were talking and Alana brought up something called boyfriend error. Alana, and I was...

personally fascinated by it. Alex knew what it was, but what is boyfriend air? Boyfriend air, I guess, is a phenomenon that explains why every time like you sleep at your boyfriend's house or like sleep with your man, like you wake up like disgusting with greasy hair, oily skin, smelly. Like I felt like

I don't wash my hair very often. I wash my hair like literally once a week. And I would feel like in the past, not so much living with a boy now, but going over to a boy's house every time I would sleep over, I would wake up with greasy hair on like day two hair. OK, I have a question. Are you having sex during this time? Yeah, but like I think that sex makes people dirty.

I think I don't think it's boyfriend or I think it's like I would have sex at my apartment. You have your own stuff at your apartment to fix it.

No, I'm telling you, it's like a sweaty, sleepy, sticky air. No, I'm with you. I agree with you on this. I'm going to read what this just says about boyfriend. Okay. You Googled it? Yeah, that's what I was doing on my phone. What's it saying? Oh, yeah. I wasn't like on it. I was like, well, I felt like we needed... Because I had never heard... You said I knew what it was, and I think I...

I never heard the term, but immediately when you started describing it, I was like, oh my God, I've never thought of that. So this is saying boyfriend error is a theory that centers around how being in the presence of a boyfriend or a male partner affects the hygiene and presentability of their female partner. Okay. What?

Does it mean you're not like, and I feel like if I would like sleep at my boyfriend's for like two days, two nights, whatever, I would turn into this like monster because they're dirty. I think like they're just, they let off this like humid air. Okay. We once had a, when I used to work for an interior designer, we once had a client who had a headboard who on one side, it had a grease stain against the headboard from the man because her and her husband would lean against it at night and they would watch TV.

Graham washes his hair every day, sometimes twice a day. I wash mine like you. I wash it twice a week. His hair will inevitably be greasier than mine. It doesn't matter. Like his hygiene is better. They just like grease up more. I'm sure it's the same scenario for these two. But like he had a grease stain. I'll never forget it on this headboard. And it's like that's just a guy being a guy. But you start to when you cohabitate with them.

You just absorb it. You just start like grandma's eating turkey meatballs last night. I'm like, you smell like the turkey meatballs. But if I ate turkey meatballs, I wouldn't walk around smelling like it. Also, when guys drink, they literally see the alcohol you can smell on them. When girls drink, I feel like we never can smell the alcohol on us.

Never. I just realized my fucking my dad's side of the bed is like stained. Ew. Like it's like has like a sweat permanent sweat stain. Like is it all men? I swear Mike's pillow is discolored. No. Graham's pillow is highly. Yes. Graham's pillow is. And Graham is.

cleaner than I am. Undoubtedly, the man is cleaner and more hygienic than I am. And without it's not his fault. We'll leave more residue. Maybe men do something more like sweat, sweat glands and like oil glands and females. I think they must like like when I lived with my boyfriend, I never I never felt dirtier.

But I felt dirtier if we would have sex or if I was sleeping at his place. But when we lived together, it was also my place and I kept it clean. So I felt fine. So my apartment, I don't feel dirty yet. We also have a king-size bed. I think that might give it a little sitch. But I remember sleeping at Mike's apartment before we lived together and I would be waking up sticky and stinky and greasy. I'm trying to think now. Yeah.

Yeah, and there's times where if Graham gets really close to me, I'm like, you're heating me up. But I can get close near him, and I'm not going to be the source of the heat. It's like him. That's actually true. They're literally like a radiator. Yes! Men radiate heat. Radiator. What? Radiator? It's radiate. It's radiate. Radiator. No, my ex-boyfriend used to be like, you're radiating so much heat. That's why I hated cuddling, because I'm like, you're so fucking hot. They radiate heat, and it's like, you go to the gym.

Who's like dripping in sweat? That's not me. It's always the guy. Like I can sweat, but guys are dripping in sweat. You guys are going to turn me into a lesbian soon. That sounds so gross. That's the goal, baby. Oh my God. The other day, Graham Bennett went and got a jar of peanut butter that was unopened. So I watched him open it. And I was like, what's he doing with this? It was 8.30 PM. And I'm like, what are you doing? I'm just really bad to say something fucking offensive about Graham when you call him Graham Bennett.

Oh, yes, always. That's a trouble name. Whenever he says Graham Bennett, I'm like, he's in trouble. Graham Bennett came home. Graham Bennett came home. He opened up this peanut butter jar. He's like wearing a suit. And he opens his peanut butter jar. And I'm like, and he gets a spoon. And within the five minutes of him talking to me, he had eaten the whole and large gulp. I

That's like the whole entire jar. What is that, like 6,000 calories? That's what I'm thinking. I'm immediately computing that's the calories. And I'm like, that's 180 for two tablespoons. What kind of peanut butter are we talking about? Almond butter. Barney's almond butter. Thick. The whole entire jar goes down, tosses it, comes back and is telling me the story. And I haven't even mentioned this to him until this day. I was in shock.

Grandma also could probably eat like 20,000 calories a day and not gain a pound. He will lose weight. That man will lose weight. He can eat seven times my amount of food and he will lose weight. And they'll tell me about it. Like I got on the scale today and I lost weight. And I'm like, that must be nice. His metabolism is a God's gift to earth. Guys in general's metabolism. Yeah. No, really. I'm like, if I ate a cookie, I'll see it the next day. Yeah.

you could take you could house the almond butter jar but that when you said boyfriend air i don't know why i immediately was like oh that's not really air i immediately just like a thing i immediately thought i was like oh he's probably gonna like drop the spoon of peanut butter on his suit no he ate the whole jar that is hilarious but he didn't think and he was scraping the bottom of it and i'm like this is the whole thing's gone threw it away and then came back down he's like okay so anyways and i'm like

I'm literally dead. I love that. This is what I wish I could do that. So yesterday when we were also talking, Alana brought up a very interesting story about friends. And I feel like it hit home for all of us. Oh, OK. Basically, two of my very close friends have been at odds for a while with

Because of an incident where they were together with a bunch of people. The one basically she got in an accident and she was hurt, but she was OK. And people were tending to her, you know. And in that same day, in that same trip, I guess the other one hit it off with this guy. And they, you know, were off doing their own thing.

And she was, I guess, upset that the my other friend was kind of like not tending to her when she thought she should have been and was off with this guy instead. And I thought it was interesting because at first I'm like, I see that. I agree, actually, that's fucked up. But the other day I was reflecting on it and I'm like, you know what? That's kind of you were fine, right?

And she was experiencing something from her vantage point that was really positive and fun and for her, like needed her attention, I guess. And she checked and knew that you were okay. And there was a bunch of other people there. It was all good. So then I just was thinking like, I guess how much do your friends like owe you have to drop their shit for you have to like,

hold your hand, I guess. And I guess I started watching and just like that. And I'm like, Carrie is like the embodiment of this. Like she gets so mad at her friends for not like dropping the ball, whatever they're doing, coming to her side. Like they're, they have kids, they have health issues, all these things. And I just thought that was interesting, especially growing up and like getting older. We're in our late twenties now, like friendships are changing. People have a lot of shit going on. It's kind of like, dude, I'm saying like,

I have some, I have a couple clarifying questions. Okay. So let's, can we name the girl that got hurt? Carrie now? Sure. Okay. So Carrie got hurt and Miranda, Miranda is the one. Okay. Okay. Now I know what you're watching. Um, I was like, what is that? Oh yeah. And sex in the city. Okay. Carrie got hurt and Miranda found love. Yes. Correct. And Carrie's fine.

Like, but what level of fine? Like hospital? An injury. But. Okay. And of all. There was not much more anyone could do. Okay. Okay. She was just in bed.

bruised up of all the people there though with Carrie at the time is Miranda her best friend or preferred person by her side like is that the one where she's like if I'm at the hospital and there's 10 of you here I'm picking Miranda and that's who I want by me there's other people there yeah other friends other okay that mean more maybe to her equally if not more yeah because if I go down at barstool you know if I go down here

And I'm technically coworkers with everybody. But one of you two's not here. I actually would be pissed. Well, if you're here, but you're like, I'm busy. How are you going down? We've been going down. If I get attacked, I'm just saying if the players are all mutual. I see what you're saying. If Miranda's her best friend, I actually would see things differently now. But if it's equal players. Say we're out. It's you, me, Jordan, Graham, everyone. And Jordan meets a guy.

And we're all tending to you're good. You're good. Jordan's off. OK. All right. That's good. That's a good. OK. I think the most. OK, so if I was if I was Carrie, so I was thinking a lot about this. Yeah. Old Jordan would have been furious, like beyond belief. Like, I don't be friends to do probably anymore because you weren't by my side the whole time. But grown up, Jordan, as long as Miranda is.

made sure I was okay she doesn't need to sit by my side the whole time like she needs to do the basics of that like what a friend would do make sure I'm okay come to the hospital check on me but if she wants like go and do her own thing because she's also on vacation in a place that she's probably never going to go back to with the guy that she just met when I have other friends who are here for me like that's fine I just think as long as she did like the basics um

I feel like there are duties from both sides. So like last year I went on a trip with one of my best friends and when we were there, she was also wanting to see a guy that she really liked. And it was just her and I on the trip and we,

she spent a lot of time with him and old me would have been angry. I'd be like, but we went on this trip together. I want to spend time with you. How dare you ditch a ditch a guy for me, blah, blah, blah. Like grown up Jordan. I'm like, you do you. First of all, this could be your future husband for all we know. Second of all, I'm an adult. I can do my own thing. As long as you like hang out with me at least a little bit each day. Like that's fine. And lastly, like it's not your obligation to like,

entertain me. Like we're adults. Like if, if it makes you more happy, like hang out this guy that you specified from the get go that you would be seeing, like,

That's fine. I don't know. I guess the older I get, the less I rely on my friends to bring me happiness and to do things for me. Because you don't want to make people do things they don't want to do. Yeah. That's the basis of it. I feel like with friendship is it's like if these girls want to go off with guys, one, we're all okay being alone. In fact, sometimes I'm like, I prefer it. Yeah. Two, go do your thing. I want to hear about it when you get back. Like we're so... It's like...

I feel like friends, the older we get, they just show you this is what I want to be doing. And you just love them for that. Yeah. Also, like we all have our own lives. Like you can't hold people back from living their life. And like I understand why Carrie would be mad at Miranda. And maybe Miranda didn't do the basics of what a friend should do. And she should have been there a little more. I'm not I don't know because I wasn't there. But also it's like, Carrie, why are you actually mad at Miranda? Like, are you mad because like you're.

Like you wish you had a guy like you're lonely, like you don't want your friend to be finding love while you're in pain. Like, is it more of like a selfish thing?

Like she has to really sit and be like, why am I actually mad at Miranda right now? Is it a me problem or is it a her problem? And am I mad or am I sad? Yeah. Because if you're sad at Miranda and you sit her down and you're like, I it's been years or a year and I can't let this go. I thought I was mad at you. I'm sad. I'm sad with you because you were the one person that I did actually like. That is a whole other scenario where they can be like, let's call it even.

Yeah. Like that's just a myth. Like we're not communicating the same way, but I feel like on the basis of it, it's like, you can't be mad at her for that. You were,

You were fine. You were fine. If you're sad, okay, but you have to say you're sad because we can't read minds. Like if you expect people to know how you feel and then them act upon that, they can't. Like that's the more, the older I get, I realized an area I'm at fault is if we went on a trip and I had a guy there that I liked and

Instead of being like, hey, can I go hang out with this guy tonight? Instead of giving you the opportunity to be like, oh my God, go. I'd be like, so there's like this guy, like I would tiptoe around it and expect you to know what I wanted. And it's like a lot of times I feel like some of these things are just easier to

easier dealt with if we just go straight to it. Yeah. Like with that friend story, like she, she prompted it to me. She asked every time. And I said, that's okay. You, you, that's where she tosses you the ball where you have to answer. Honestly. Yeah. And if I, if I wasn't okay with that, I'm like, Hey, can we hang out? And she would have said yes. Like, cause she's a good friend, but like she fully knew how to communicate what she was going to do. And she gave me the opportunity to push back and,

and I didn't and she accepted that and it was great and you both had fun we had a blast it was one of the best trips ever I also think too when you the more you travel if someone's like hey I'm going to do xyz you're like there's so many bars I can go sit at by myself have a great dinner like I can explore yeah we can take it the older we get we're like we can take care of ourselves exactly so I yeah I feel like maybe it was a communication thing with

I would just be so cute. I want to ask Carrie and Miranda so many questions. I know. Are you upset? Are you sad? Or are you like just holding on to it? Her boyfriend's there. Her boyfriend was there. That's interesting because if I had Graham there, I wouldn't need. I'd be fine. Yeah, same. I would be fine. Graham or like one of my parents or somebody like that. I'm like, I'm good. All my friends can go run with the wind. Same. Also, like, did she voice that she wanted her to be there more? Did Miranda check in?

Did she ever go to visit her in the hospital? Okay, so the hospital thing is brief. It wasn't. They were there for an hour. Okay. I'm so sorry. That was confusing. Me too. And I'm like, no, they came back at night. Yeah. Okay, so she literally goes, checks, they're like, you don't have a concussion, go home. Yeah. Kind of thing. She's like chilled in the hotel room. They were in an Airbnb. She's chilled in the Airbnb. Yep. That makes sense.

It's even less bad. Oh, yeah. I mean, you got a TV. You got your phone. You got your boyfriend. You got your boyfriend? You have 10 other friends? Yeah. And you're in an Airbnb, so it's not even a we have to knock on the hotel room door. It's like you're on the couch and we're all in the kitchen. That'd be like if we all went to Aspen and with Graham, Alana, Mike, Garrison, Jason, and

And you got into a skiing accident and you had to sit in bed the rest of the week. And you got mad at me for wanting to go out and adventure in Aspen that I never get to go to while you have your with Graham by your side. That's where I'm like, go run with the wind. Actually, I would be mad at you if you stayed home. You'd be annoyed at me. You'd be like, get out of here. I would be like, go, go run wild. Like, what? Yeah. Yeah.

But if it was just me and you and I left you, that's a whole other story. I would never do that to you. Exactly. Yeah. And and for the sake of playing devil's advocate, the only scenario where you're the asshole is if I'm sitting there with my leg propped up and you come up all you haven't asked me one time how I am, I guess. And you're like, I see. Like, if you don't mention it.

Which is never going to happen. Like we almost laugh because it's like we would never. Yeah. But that would be the one scenario I'd be like, dude, literally. But you're going to check in and you're going to be like, love you. Text me if you need anything. We're not going to need anything. Like you do the basic check in and you run with the wind. Yeah. Yeah.

I know. I thought it was funny to me. That seems just to be more of a, something inside of her is hurting because maybe she's a friend who gives more than she receives. And maybe like that actually eats her up inside that she gives more than Miranda's ever given her, but that's not, that's exactly right. But that means she needs to find friends that can give her what she gives. Like I've really learned that in, as I've gotten older, more so with men than women, but you just have to find people who match your,

your love language and energy level. Like I need, I need a lot from a partner. So I need to find a partner who can give me a lot. And don't get upset when you find a friend that doesn't. Yeah. They just give in a different way. And that's, that's okay. Yeah. I've dated guys who can give me a little, uh,

And no matter what I do, they're never going to give me more than that because that's all they can give. Yeah. And I just have to accept that and I had to walk away. And you don't fault them for that. You love them for that, but you just, you find somebody else. Yeah. Same with a friend. Like if you want more out of a friendship, like just find a friend who's going to give that to you because you'll find a friend who will give you more. Totally. And you still love the other friends for that. You're just like, I need a little bit more so they'll be out there. Yeah.

I have so many friends where not so many, I have friends where I would be like, I would never call you if, if I got into trouble, you would never be there for me.

And sometimes the person you would call is not even your very best friend. Fully. They're just great troubleshooters. Yes. Oh my God. Like in high school, I was the friend people would call. I would never be someone's best friend, but like I was the most responsible so I would be called for that. Totally. And then there's friends who I just want to get fucked up with. And you got the friends that you know you call, that you can trust with anything. Yeah. You've got, oh yeah, different sets and you're different to different people. So maybe Miranda and Carrie just see each other in different ways.

lights. Different glasses. Yeah. That's very true. Right. Well, I love that we named them. I know. So much easier. Interesting. Quick pause to talk about Zola because, and let me tell you this is true, when you're getting married, it is not just about the big day. It's about all the amazing days that lead up to your wedding day. Like

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for every single day along the way. I love that. Can I ask you guys a question before we get into the listener question? Yes. Okay, so it's just kind of like a funny question. When we were in L.A., we were asking each other this, and it was, what is your serial killer trait? So I have some. Oh, for yourself? Yes. Okay, good. You want me to give you yours? No, no, no. I just wanted to make sure you were doing your own. What are yours?

Okay, so I can hold my pee like an offensively long amount of time, like an entire, I can be hydrating and hold my pee like six, seven hours. And I can, if it starts to hurt and I have to pee, I'll drink more water, which is really weird. But so I can hydrate and hold my pee for a long time. Wait, wait, wait. Why do you drink more? Just because something about it, like it's already full. So I just pile on. Ew.

I know. And then I forget that I have to pee. Like, I can mentally be like, you don't have to pee. And I won't get any, I won't have any repercussions from that. It'll just be, I go pee, yeah. Does Graham have any? Peanut, his ability to eat peanut butter is crazy. His ability to consume an odd amount of calories and lose weight, yeah, that's a serial killer trait. That's funny. Alana, what's yours? One is that

Like, I don't close anything. Like, I leave cabinets slightly ajar. I leave lids not... Oh, look. I would kill you. Like, everything, I just don't close. I don't know why. No. I think it's because, like, I know I'm going to need it again eventually, if not days from now, 10 minutes from now. My other one is that I leave, like, a trail of food. Like, everyone calls it my slug trail. Like...

Like, you know, if I've been there, cause I'll take like a bite of something and leave it on like a napkin. You do that all the time. You've noticed that? In the conference room. And then you'll leave and then you'll leave. And I'm like,

I mean, who's throwing it? I'm throwing it away. But like, who else was going to do that? I think it's like a weird compulsion. I have that. It's like, I, I don't want to be wasteful. So I hope someone will eat it. Okay. But I want to try it, but I'm not hungry or don't really like sweets that much. Like a little bite of something.

I don't I can't stop doing it. Those both give I would murder that that's killer. Like leaving stuff open. Oh, oh, that we like lukewarm water. Oh, that's a trick for us. We love it. Yeah. What's yours? I sleep with socks on and I do all the things with socks on, too. What? Yeah, I don't. I hate bare feet.

Wait. Oh, I need bare feet. Need me socks on. Yeah, that's a serious people. I think it's crazy when people sleep with socks on. Most of the time I don't sleep with socks on. But when I get really cold, I sleep with I have to sleep with socks on. I love sleeping with socks. It's my favorite thing ever. Oh, my God. No, I want you to have socks. And when I have sex, I like you. Yeah.

no i think that's fine that's because you're a serial killer what my god i hate that my parents used when i was like a child they said like cut the feet off my onesies i was like three years old i didn't think it was but when i told everyone they're like what what yeah you would think a serial killer trait would be having lots of text messages and um unopened emails but that's normal no that's it to me that's a serial killer trait oh

The fact that I can't paint my nails one color is a serial killer joke. I have to hold my breath in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2. I've told my breath under tunnels. Wait, what do you have to do? Well, I used to have to. I actually did like try to get myself out of it, but I would have to hold my breath one like I would hold it one for seven seconds total. But I would hold it. I would count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2.

And then I would redo whatever I had just done. That's crazy. OCD. That's what the end of what it was. I had really bad OCD things when I was younger. Like, Oh yeah. Really, really bad. I use like I'm left-handed. So I would always feel bad for my right hand. So if I did something with my left hand, I'd like have to do with my right hand. Cause I didn't want it to be left out. Not because you didn't want to have like the same tone you wanted to include it. Yeah. I feel bad for it. That's actually cute. I,

I'll like over-exercise my left arm because my right arm's just typically stronger because I like lift things with it. But it's never been about including the other arm. When I was really, really, and I mean really young, I used to, everything I touched I had to smell. Ew! So I was sitting around and I had to be like this. No, no, no. Ew! No, no, no. You wouldn't last a day with Graham Bennett. Anytime I even go like that, he's like, did you just smell your armpit or are you smelling your fingers? Ew!

I don't like that anymore, but I used to. No, that makes me want to throw up. Why? To know? I don't know. OCD. I don't think we can control OCD. Oh, you can't. Well, you can. Well, I grew up. But you can't. I used to always. I used to have to say goodnight. I love you to my mom three times every night. I still have to say see ya. Talk to you later. Talk to you later. Or like. I have to say it back. Like, thank you.

Thank you. Say you're welcome. Thank you. And they would have to, yeah. Okay, that makes me actually feel better. But I used to be like, good night, I love you. Good night, I love you. Good night, I love you. We're gonna, like, seriously have to change the subject off the OCD traits. Okay, okay. I'm gonna tell us the story. Those are the questions. Okay, all right. This person texted me today and said...

This is our listener question from one of Alex's friends submitted it. Yes, it's like a real life person that we know. Okay. He submits it as a scenario. Okay. Guy and girl meet. There's a lot of attraction. They plan on seeing if there's synergy and agree to have a lunch or dinner date. And they set the date like they pick the day they're going to have this date. Okay. Okay. Guy reaches out to confirm that they still have the plans. She doesn't respond.

Several days later, she responds, claiming that she's been too busy but would like to have lunch later in the week. Had the date passed? Yes. Three days. The guy confirms that he is available, but the girl offers no communication afterwards because she is too busy. But as it stands, they still currently have the plans of the reset date.

Ultimately, here's the question. Should there be a period of communication between two individuals leading up to a date that's nearly a week out? Or is silence OK? And he does the same thing where he confirms the day before again to know. This is the classic ghosting thing. She's going to it's going to come up and she's going to be like, sorry, I'm too busy.

And do you also think it's it is she's just not that into you one on one and like he doesn't need he should start making other plans, start talking to other girls, pretend she doesn't really even exist. And in the day before, though, he can text and confirm, see what she says. But like if another date could be planned on that day, go with that. Right. Yeah. Like at the end of the day, we are.

Our gender. No, no one cannot text back on a phone. You're never too busy to text. Sorry, something came up like he she stood him up essentially. Yeah, like that. He I know this man is, but he deserves better because I'm assuming he's around our age and.

No. This makes me so mad that people still do this because it's like, just grow a pair and tell them that you're not interested anymore. So you don't like the string along either? No. I don't believe in ghosting. I don't believe in standing someone up. And I do not believe in stringing someone along, especially. I'm like, I cut people off to a T because I think stringing someone along is the worst thing you can do to a person. And you love to respect people's time and energy. Like you, you're big on time.

how you treat them you want them to treat you back yeah so if he's treating if he's kind of giving her what she gave him it would kind of be like waiting on the response like or not responding at all like what I think happened here was she went and explored other options and they kind of fell through and then she was like well he was nice and so she picked it back up but it's like you're not someone's second option yeah or you know what could happen to is like

Remember that one time I just ended things with that guy and then in the moment I hadn't really thought through my feelings so I jumped the gun and planned a date. The day the date came and I was like, Alex, I can't do this. I'm going to break down. Something similar like that could have happened where in the moment she was like, yeah, but then she sat on it and thought about it and was like,

On the other hand, that's why you should never plan a date too long in advance, because if you sit on something for too long, you'll start to back away from it. You talk yourself out of it fully. And she probably did that and was like, I don't really want to deal with it. So I text him back and then we'll be fine. Yeah, I do think it's interesting. I think if she she got the first mark against her because she didn't go to the first date.

Or stood him up fully. Fully stood him up. And then if they're going to schedule the second day, I do think it's on her to like text once in the middle of the time period. I'm really looking forward to it. Thanks for rescheduling. Then he would know she wanted to. But I do think in this instance, it's about 90-10. Yeah. He's 90. Also, like for him, like why do you want to be with someone who doesn't respect you or your time? Yeah.

I think people get caught up on the initial, there was a lot of synergy and attraction. And so you hold on to that. But it's like, you can have a lot of...

synergy with people with a lot of people right off the bat but it's what it's like what happens after that where it's like is that the kind of person you want to communicate with and work with like you can go to a bar and probably hit it off with five or six people and also like how many times have you met someone and you like the connection was unreal but then just you go back to reality and just kind of fade it's like sparks are real yeah sparks happen but like synergy like no

Yeah. Big difference. He deserves better. I agree. Cause he seems like a nice guy, especially since he's putting up with that. And it looks like he's actually wanting to find somebody to date and she's doesn't have the same priorities as him. Agreed. Agreed. Nice.

I'm very passionate about that. That's good. No, I think that's really good. I think that's good feedback to him. He deserves better. I don't even know who he is. I know he deserves better. I did. I know. I know, you know, the character in my life, but I wouldn't tell you because I want to be unbiased. I appreciate you doing that. Um, someone want to hit someone for him when I find out who it is. I find out who the person is.

Okay, so this is fun because it's Valentine's week and we've got a great interview at the end of this. How to be single and happy. Yes, I'm so excited. So Jenny Tate's, she was an absolute sweetheart. She definitely opened my eyes since I am single. And I think it's just going to be a great interview for everyone. Even if you're not single, it's still kind of showed. I feel like you just had to be happier in general.

Totally. She had that good little nugget of it's not how, but why? No, it's not why, but how? Yes. It's not why. It's not why. So it's not what's behind you. It's not why did this happen, but it's how do I fix it going forward? I've used that like four or five times since we've talked to her. No, I'm not single. Fully. I think it just shows you if you are single, how to be happy. Two, if you're in a relationship, how to be happy more independently. And three, just how to be happier in general, like individually.

as a person. Totally. So it was a fun interview and I'm super excited for everyone to listen to it. So everybody enjoyed the interview, but before that, we're going to have a quick word from EveryPlate. Looking to carve out more time in 2023, get EveryPlate and take back the clock with fewer trips to the grocery store and meals that are ready in 30 minutes or less.

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whole mindsets and we just wanted you to elaborate on it so the quote was or the quote is the belief that your happiness hinges on an external circumstance that you can't control like meeting a partner not only makes it harder to find love but it also sets you up for unhappiness so we just wanted to discuss that quote with you because all three of us read that and we it it changed my whole mindset we were like wow we were like chill yeah literally thank you yeah I mean our mindsets

affect our behaviors, right? So if I go into a situation, I think,

everyone here sucks or no one here is my people. That's not just something that's in my mind. That's going to influence my behavior and become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Like that will, if I go into a huge situation and I think this is going to be terrible, I'm not just going to think that. I'm going to act in ways that perpetuate that belief. So I'll be on my phone. I probably won't give people a chance. They probably will have like body language that looks like do not disturb instead of like, hey, nice to meet you. And so really thinking that

how we think affects how we behave. And it is terrible to think that happiness is like out of your hands. And there's so much happiness. I mean, this isn't like a Jenny Tate's idea. This is like what positive psychologists are pretty clear about. Happiness has everything to do with being present in the moment and pursuing positive activities. And those are things we can all do all the time.

But if you're having a hard day and think it would be so good to have someone to come home to, or you're having an amazing day and thinking, I'd be amazing. Like this would be like a hundred times better if there was someone I could drink with to celebrate. That's automatically going to make your pain worse or your joy less joyful. And it's dating is really hard. And I think the nicest thing we can do is remember that.

You're not a therapist waiting for your life to start. Your life is like right here, right now. And how can you make the most of it? And I'm not trying to say this in a way that's like too optimistic, but this is really realistic. Like if, you know, if you think about it, like, have you had joy even uncoupled before?

By being super present in your life and being really deliberate about finding behaviors that satisfy you and give you a sense of meaning and nourishment. And some people worry that some of my clients tell me that they worry that if they're like too happy in their lives, they're not going to be looking for love.

But that's just not how we are. Like, like wanting connection is such an innate desire. It's not the kind of thing that we'll forget about. It's just a matter of making it something that hurts us or making our lives rich with possibility. And it's something that we can come back to when it happens. We don't kind of have to, you know, you could think about what's the amount of time we need to spend investing and finding someone, but how can you really live your best life in the meantime? Yeah.

I really like that. I know I do this a lot and my friends do it a lot and say it a lot where we're always like, oh, it'd be so nice to have a partner to experience life with. Like, I really want to go on this trip and I think it'd be so much more fun to do it if I had a partner. And that obviously makes us very sad. So I like the idea of like...

Like life is right now. It's not, and it's happening right now. So you have to live in the present versus like, take the trip now. Like I should just be taking the trips that I want to do with this partner that doesn't even exist. Jordan, I can't tell you the number of times that clients sign up for trips and they're really brave. I mean, some of my clients sign up for trips where they literally don't know anyone and they're going like across the world. And I get a little nervous. I'm like, oh no, I hope it's a success. Like, you know, they're spending like their whole bonus on this. Like it better be good. Yeah.

And they always have like such a great time. And I think people forget, like if you go on a trip with your partner, like you might be fighting with them. They might make you late to the airport. Like we need to really like accept where we're at and seize the day. And I think it's a really cool thing to think about. Like if I truly wholeheartedly believed I would find my person in the next couple of years, like how do I want to spend this moment? Like, do I want to sit here waiting and have my life on pause until they arrive? And, and like,

Like, this is not a reason at all to like find your own happiness, but happiness actually leads to like health and improved ability, improved relationships and improved ability to connect. So it's not like happiness is going to hold you back. It's actually going to rev you up to find the right person. You briefly touched on

when we're unhappy, it's almost like we have this do not disturb energy. And I think if people realize that if, if they can allow themselves to be happy in this moment, they'll look happy, they'll happy, they'll present themselves happier, and then they'll attract more people or a better life partner. Because I think a lot of people when they're single feel sad, and then they kind of give off that energy or that vibe of like,

I'm unhappy. So no one even really wants to get to know them. Cause I feel like we've talked about that a lot. Alex and I, like when we go out, I used to just be guarded because I was unhappy. And I was like, well, why am I not meeting anyone? And she was like, well, it's because you don't look like you want anyone to meet you. And so like, but if you're happier and you really show that to people, you start bringing in more people and better people. So I think a lot of single people can use that to their advantage. Yeah.

Yeah, and I could teach you guys and people will have to watch this on YouTube to see this, but I'll try my best to explain it. I feel like...

Your option is either to like, look like do not disturb or like have a overly happy face. It seems artificial. It's like when someone is about to take your picture and that almost like hurts a good middle sweet spot. It's called a half smile, which is like really relaxing. I mean like tension in your forehead and half smiles, even like too much. It's like a quarter of a smile. It just looks like welcoming and like, it's supposed to be kind of serene. It's kind of like a face of acceptance, but,

And it's like, that looks kind of friendly. Like I would want to say hi to you. And it's also not awkwardly like too happy, which is like, do we know each other? And we actually don't, it's just kind of inviting. And it kind of sends to your brain. Like if you're have that face, you know, if you're in traffic or waiting online at a store, um,

or your boss just says something offensive to you, like that face kind of starts to help us accept. Like we have a facial feedback loop. Our faces communicate to our brain. If you start to like tense your face, your mind is going to like automatically have more judgmental thoughts. But if we can relax our face, that kind of is like a nice inroad towards acceptance. That's nice. I always forget that.

like you can trick your brain into thinking you're happy if you just smile. Like I forget the power of our facial expressions. Yeah. And I don't want anyone to think that I'm trying to encourage them to totally fake it. But it's like, if you're super socially anxious and going somewhere where you don't know anyone, like the only person you know is the host and they're like busy talking to everyone. How can you like be a good friend to yourself? How can you give yourself a hug and not, you know, be looking on your phone or be like thinking like, what do they think of me? And

This is weird. You know, like, hey, I'm here. I got me. I'm happy to try to make other people feel like I see them and accept them. That's really helpful. Yeah, that's super helpful. I think it'd be great to talk about why we we seek worth in finding a partner when we're single and like how we can feel more worthy just on our own and receive more.

worthiness in different ways, a little bit more productive ways. In your book, you talked about this. It's that you titled it, give more to feel more. People have a feeling of worthlessness. Give it to someone else besides a romantic partner.

I love creating kind of like a life pie chart, like a visual of your life. And so a lot of people, if you're, you know, if looking for love is like the one thing on your to-do list that you don't have a sense of like, what is your next step around? Or that's the one thing that you feel like you're not gaining momentum around having some sort of reminder of like, okay, what are the things in my life that matter to me? And how do I want to show up in those areas? So let's say it's like health, right?

career, being a good friend, being good to my family, like romantic partner, like automatically romantic partner has to shrink. It can't be like 80% of your life high. Like it has to like, let's say at least go down to like 20%. So that means 80% of your life is yours. And I think really focusing on

What do I want to do in these other areas of my life and reminding yourself and you could include also in this life in the slice of your life that is finding a partner, you can also include how you want to show up like patient kind good communicator if people the benefit of the doubt not judge people prematurely whatever and

So I think really having like a sense that your self-worth is so much more than who happens to be with you or not with you. And there's so many other, you know, ways to be loving. Like a lot of people think that the only way to kind of be generous and affectionate is with a partner, but that's such a...

Lack of imagination. I have, you know, even thinking about just buying like your girlfriend's like cute cards and sending them handwritten notes can get you excited as like you wonder, like, did they get my random letter today? And or doing a good deed or volunteering. There's so there's a lot of research that finds that a strong sense of meaning in your life and giving to other people is.

Gives you as like reduces your loneliness and I specifically love a practice called loving kindness meditation, which entails thinking of someone that you naturally like have fond feelings towards yourself, maybe someone you care about that's going through a hard time.

familiar stranger like someone that works um in your office building that you're not especially close to then all someone that's slightly difficult like maybe a parent or something and then all beings and spending a moment on each person thinking you know like with yourself let's say you say the same thing for everyone but just because it's easier to explain it i'll say it with yourself may i be happy may i be healthy may i be safe may i live with ease may i be happy

healthy, safe, and live with these and not just say it. I'm kind of saying it quickly because in the service of the interview, but to really say it like a gift, like, like we don't need other people to validate our worth. We can contribute to that ourselves and we don't need other people to be the vessels for our love. We can, there's so many more avenues for us to spread love.

And I know this sounds totally like silly and maybe surprising, but even being more friendly to people, let's say you're getting a cup of coffee. Like there's studies that found that people that are efficient, like quickly, like go in and out versus like spend a minute and try to be a little friendly, like being friendly, even if you're introverted, reduces your feelings of loneliness and increases your sense of connection.

So since you brought up loneliness, I kind of wanted to add another question to that. And if you have any specific tips on how to say goodbye to loneliness, just because I mean, being single or if you're in a relationship to you do feel lonely a lot, especially when you're single. Like I feel lonely. So not not all the time, every once in a while. So it'd be nice if I could like there's some tricks I can I can practice when I'm having those more lonely days than usual.

So loneliness has so much to do with our thinking. So researchers have found like, what are the best ways to make you feel less lonely? Is it having you spend more time with other people? And surprisingly, it's actually changing your thoughts, like maladaptive social cognitions or thinking that, you know, we used to be close, but like now she has a partner, so she's really not into like spending time or anything.

I'll never meet someone because it's been like six months since I had a good date. Like those are the thoughts that really keep us lonely. So, so much of loneliness has to do again with thinking thoughts that allow us to connect with ourselves and other people. And we all deserve to feel connected. And so if we let go of some of those thoughts, we can, you know, maybe make a plan to meet someone in person and see them in kind of a different light rather than like, they don't really want to be here and neither do I. It's like,

This is really special. Like we can kind of have a really nice time and not comparing it to what it would be like if you were going to dinner with a guy or a girl, but really being present. So there's so much about being friendly to people around you, seeing us all as interconnected, really sharing other people's joy is like a huge way to feel less lonely, like really.

The Dalai Lama says that you can like, uh, up your happiness by like 6 billion to one by really like, if a friend tells you good news, you could either kind of be, Oh, cool. Congratulations. Or, Oh my gosh, that's amazing. I'm so, and that kind of makes you feel less alone and more part of a community. And then your friend will probably do that for you in turn. Is it okay. I have a question because both of those had like this really optimistic lens attached to them. And, and,

And how you're saying like, you know, of course, instead of giving, I love it. I love that you talk about rerouting your energy, right? So if on your pie, a relationship is on it, well, of course it's going to be smaller when you're single and you walk around and you're, you know, you're being more kind, you're having more intimate connections, you know, you're pouring more into your friends and family. Is it okay to, to still exercise all of that, but still want to have a partner or, or not? And I think loneliness, I'm so happy you mentioned that.

Loneliness is is OK. That is like we want to accept our emotions as valid and understandable. And some amount of loneliness is something that's going to motivate us to go on the apps, even if they've been really demoralizing and exhausting. So we do want some amount of loneliness. It's just a matter of when is it helping us and when is it not?

hurting us or torturing us and so it's okay to feel lonely and to make space for loneliness I also think it's a real myth that people that are in romantic relationships aren't lonely I think everyone experiences loneliness that's part of the human condition um but I think being really kind to yourself in the face of loneliness rather than like picking the scab and saying this is always going to be this way and it'll never be better

That's awesome. I think that'd be really helpful. Yeah. Well, and that's a practice that everyone can do if you're single or married or in a relationship, which is nice. Yeah. It's nice to be, it was nice to know, like, it's okay to be lonely. Yeah. Like to feel that. Yeah. Yeah. All emotions are okay. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to be anxious. It's okay to be angry. It's like, do you sit with it for a few minutes or do you keep it alive for hours past the point of helpfulness? Yeah.

And what's your relationship with yourself when those feelings come up? Are you kind to yourself or do you like really dig yourself further down into the designs of how? Yeah, I also think it's important to know finding a partner isn't just going to fix your loneliness, because I know a lot of people are single assume all stop being lonely when I find my person. But that's not always the case. So it's really important to make sure you're practicing ways to not be lonely with this whole experience, even alone.

before you find your partner. And I think so much of loneliness hinges on thinking I will never meet someone. So really playing with that thought or saying hey to that thought or doing the mean girl tongue to that thought. Waving goodbye to a lovely. Bye. I love that. So now I want to just quick talk about being nicer to yourself.

And in your book, you talked about pessimistic forecaster. So when you the quote that we kind of got from it was when you let your let yourself be a pessimistic forecaster or your own private bully, it's hard to find inner peace. So how can people who are single get away from that or stop the negative thoughts? So we can't stop negative thoughts, unfortunately, but we can really look at our beliefs around them. So many people have like

They can't win because they either think like the negative thoughts being hard on themselves is going to prevent them from messing up. And then they also think like I'm going crazy and I'm ruining my life and my heart by being so hard on myself. So really taking a look at like your beliefs. Do you believe being hard on yourself is going to help you? Is there another way to kind of

stay motivated. And most people find that self-compassion being nicer to yourself, which isn't like being self-indulgent. It's not saying you're awesome if you messed up. It's just kind of like

How can I add like compassion to the situation? How can I be more self-validating? Like, it's really hard to not send someone a text of confusion if it's been five days. Like, of course, that's a normal thing to want to do. And so really being kind of aware of, do you have beliefs that being tough on yourself is helping? It's actually not. And so can you catch yourself? Just notice when you're doing that.

And I know this is going to seem really like hokey, but if you like even taking a moment to like put your hands on your heart for like a minute has been found to be like a gesture of self-compassion that can almost be like a hug. It's like, like, I don't just like you wouldn't tell your kid to do this to themselves or your best friend to do this to themselves. Like, how can you start to treat yourself a little bit more like the people that you love?

I like that. I just, I don't like the term pessimistic forecaster, but I like the meaning behind it because I, I mean, I know I've done this where you just,

Like when you're single, you just think about the future and finding someone in such a negative way. And that's not going to bring you anything good. So just trying to think about the future more positively, I know, has been really beneficial. And I've practiced that. And I probably should practice that more often. Yeah, I mean, on a personal note, I spent so many years. I probably spent like a decade worrying about meeting someone. And I was really convinced that it wouldn't happen or I would have to settle or...

It just wouldn't be good. And I feel sad for myself. It was like, why did I lose thousands of hours? Like, how could I have enjoyed that time more? Why are we like not our biggest allies and advocates? Like, why do we...

make our lives harder by when situations are already hard. It's already hard to date on apps. That's one of the reasons I wrote this book, because like app based dating has made dating feel like more like a game or gaming. Like people are so disrespected and treated like two dimensional beings rather than people that really matter. How can we make it a little bit easier? Because it's hard to know. I thought was really helpful. Yeah. This whole thing was so helpful. No, I truly am.

taking tips because I've learned a lot for myself and it's just, I'm like, wow, I do a lot of these things that are negative practices. So this has been really helpful for someone who is single. Thank you so much. And I just want to normalize, like it's a really hard time to be single because of the apps and we're,

so tortured by feeling invalidated, like feeling like we don't matter and we're not seen. Like the ultimate thing all of us want in our lives is to feel seen and appreciated. And so we need to approach dating with so much more kindness because it's such a harder setup. And to not burn out, we need to not let

Like ourselves in the circumstances make it harder. We need to kind of like coach ourselves like you would if you were running the marathon. I like that you validated that it's harder to date with all the dating apps because I feel like so many people are always like, but it's so easy. There's so many options. There's so many apps. And when you're single, you're like, shut up. No, it's not. Yeah.

No, it's not. And I wish I mean, I wish like I had the power to like give some sort of motivational speech to people that aren't treating people respectfully on the dating apps. Like these people are like, whatever you do to someone else is going to come back to you or your kid, like, get it together. Like people are going through stuff right now. People are anxious, people are depressed, like the least you could do is be kind. Yeah.

But people forget that when it's just not a friend of a friend or. Yeah. And a lot of people are on the apps who don't even want to date. And I just wish there was a way to kick those people off. It's like, why are you on that? Or be clear, like there are people that are fine for that. But just be honest, like we need to, you know, everyone would feel less lonely if they were more plugged into remembering that we're all friends.

We're all connected and people's feelings matter. Okay. I want to, I just think maybe you'll have an interesting perspective on this. People who put on rose covered glasses to not be single and how that can hurt you. So you're making all these exceptions for the guy you're dating because you're afraid to be single.

Oh, that's a good question. So it's funny when I told people I was writing a book called How to Be Single and Happy, they told me that I should write a follow-up called How to Be Married and Happy. Who we pick to partner with is such a big decision. It matters more than so many other decisions that we make in our lives. This is the person that you might spend the rest of your life with. This is the person you might raise a family with. This is a really big deal. And so we don't want to go into looking for love with such anxiety, anxiety,

that we're just willing to take whatever we can and fill in like, you know, concerns with positive assumptions. We want to make sure that the person that we're with makes us feel good, has similar values as a decent human being, because life is hard enough without having someone by your side that makes it harder. So question with that. So when people who are single are dating, I think a lot of people, like Alex said, they put those rose covered glasses

colored rose colored glasses on and they allow a lot of the red flags to kind of slip away because they're like well but it's nice to have somebody it's nice to be taught we have such good chemistry yeah like how can people who are dating kind of prevent the glasses to be too rose colored

This is such a great question, Jordan. I think people making a list of like the qualities and virtues that they're really looking for in a partner. I think we get so fixated on what we want physically or what we're attracted to physically, but what are the core values or character traits that matter to us?

And obviously I don't want people to be like so rigid or perfectionist or idealistic that it's not practical, but to really think through, like if someone has like intense anger problems, like that is a deal breaker. I'm not just going to say, oh, they had too much to drink or it's a really stressful time at work. Like what are the specific things? And obviously, you know, communication is key. And I obviously,

obviously believe that people can change for the better. But I think it's really key to kind of know what your bottom line are, what lines are, and what matters to you. And to go in with eyes wide open and remember to even take a moment to realize like, I want a relationship so badly. How can I go into this knowing what matters, not just willing to take whatever comes my way because I feel anxious.

Yeah, I like that last part. Yeah, that's that's really helpful. I feel like a lot of times people don't want to be alone. So they. Yeah. Or they date someone for like a month or so and then they realize two months in that all the red flags that they thought are actually red flags. And instead of being like, well, I'm already like two months in, so I should just keep dating them to be able to walk away and know they're going to be OK and they're going to find somebody better.

Yeah, I think how can you be your best friend and how can you like do what your best friend would tell you to do in this situation? And someone's putting their best foot forward on when they're dating, it's going to be harder. Like, you know, if someone's already concerning you, then life is going to get harder when they're not trying as hard. And so I am all about try to assert yourself and explain what you noticed and how it concerns you and give people a chance. But also if someone's not treating you the way you want to be treated or not showing up at the level that you are,

That's showing up at the level you are. That's me knowing. I like that. An option versus priority. Yes. I get so much more into details and tips in How to Be Single and Happy. I wrote this book because so many people deserve to have therapist input that can't necessarily get to therapy. So if you want like tons more information on how to cope with your emotions, you can

appropriately assert yourself in a way that doesn't burn bridges or doesn't feel stressful, learn to be more present and effective in your life, you should totally read my book. I have an Instagram and Twitter and I have a new book coming out next year on stress. And I really love hearing from readers and I, you deserve to be single and happy and

I love the Hafiz quote, I wish to show you in loneliness or in darkness, the astonishing light of your own being. And I really wrote this book because it's really unfair that dating has become something that really affects how we see ourselves or the light we experience in our lives and life.

You know, we'd love to live better. Oh, I love that. And will you do your socials where people can find you? DrJennyTates at Instagram and Twitter and D-R-J-E-N-N-Y-T-A-I-T-E-Z. Perfect. Thank you, Dr. Jenny. That was great. That was very helpful. Yeah, it was amazing. Thank you. She is the best. Oh, sorry. That was a fact. That was... What are you laughing at? It was such a good interview. No, that interview...

genuinely made me feel not that I'm sad about ever being single, but sometimes it does like hit you in the face if you're single for too long. And that interview was just a reminder, like you really got to find your own happiness first before you find it with another person. Totally. And she's so well-spoken articulated. So go find her, find the book, do all of that. Watch us on YouTube. You know, if you've already listened to it on audio, just go back, watch it on YouTube. We're so fun there. Um,

And like, comment, subscribe, follow us on all platforms. Mean Girl Pod, YouTube. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. This is all backwards. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat, Facebook, TikTok. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and leave us a five-star review. Beautiful. I love it. I love it and I love you guys. You love you. I love you. I love you. Okay, bye.