The Fast Rise Of Congressman Byron Donalds
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Well, welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and thanks for joining us. We're going to have a good show today. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in the news. We're going to highlight the stupid because there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. And then we're going to give a call to Byron Donalds. Byron is a rising star within the Republican ranks there in the House of Representatives.

He is a congressman from Florida, and if you haven't heard him, you're going to hear a lot more about him coming down the pike because he's doing great things just rooted in those conservative principles. And I'll talk a little bit about him and

his rise and his life and have a little discussion about what informs his conservativism along the way. But let's start within the news because there are a few things happening and I'd like to highlight some of the things and just chat for a moment about some of the things that are happening in the news.

You know, this country went through a lot over a couple of years talking about masks and mask mandates and vaccines and vaccine mandates. But there was this study and there were a lot of things happening in the news, but it came out just a couple of weeks ago from, I think it's called the Mercatus Center at George Mason University.

And they concluded that COVID-19 vaccine mandates in nine major cities did not appear to make a difference in terms of curbing cases and deaths from the pandemic. So it kind of begs the question, why did we do this? If it didn't curb them, it didn't make a difference. It's something to learn from. You know, I like to say from time and, you know, I said this time and time again while I was in Congress,

We are different in the United States of America. We are self-critical. Most other countries don't do these kinds of exercises. They don't go back and look and they don't tear themselves up and beat themselves up by looking in the past. But if you're going to create the best future for

You're just being flat out ignorant if you don't look at the past. And sometimes, maybe most of the time, there are lessons to be learned. So in this particular case, at least from George Mason University, the COVID-19 vaccine mandate made no difference, at least in nine studies in the cities that they looked at, or one study in nine cities that they looked at.

Should be pretty interesting and we should learn from that. Also wanted to highlight the U.S. Navy. Huge fan of our United States military. I want to make sure we have the best fighting force on the face of the planet. I believe as Ronald Reagan did, as I believe Donald Trump does, as a

lot of other candidates that will be running for office believe and that is peace through strength that Anybody who ever dared think that they were going to take on the United States when they actually think it through they would back off because well we have the biggest fighting force the smartest fighting force and the most capable fighting force and

That's why I was a little disappointed to see that the Navy had announced, quote, a one-time reset of all physical fitness assessment failures. Basically, what they're doing is they're diminishing the standards. So you have physical fitness standards to be in the military, and they're going to curb those back, essentially because they're not meeting their recruiting goals, right?

That's a scary thing. I think you need to keep the bar high. And if our numbers go down, the numbers go down. And let's talk and have a discussion in this nation and encourage people to join the United States military as this all-volunteer force. But don't just make it so that anybody can get in even if you can't do a sit-up. That's ridiculous. That's not the way to have the best fighting force that we need in this country and to fight back everything that's going on in this world.

Another thing that I wanted to highlight was this kind of viral video that maybe you saw a couple weeks ago. Had that horrific chemical spill after a train derailment there in eastern Ohio, right out there on the Pennsylvania border. Now, what was shocking about this is that Pete Buttigieg, the Transportation Secretary, and let's just say out loud that the Transportation Secretary, that's one of the more sleepy people

It usually doesn't make a lot of news type of cabinet positions out there in the world. But Pete Buttigieg, boy, anything and everything you can think of in terms of transportation has really not been going well. And so here you have this horrific train derailment. Toxic chemicals are involved. The government

A little bit unsure, but we think it's the state government. Maybe the feds were consulted. We don't know yet for sure. Maybe by the time this podcast comes out, we do. But they decide to ignite them, causing this plume to go up in the air. The Ohio Department of Natural Resources says,

finds that they had at least 3,500 dead fish. Frogs are dying in the streams. The EPA administrator comes out a little bit late, but days after this event and says, well, look, what I really want you to do is just trust government. Just trust government. And the transportation secretary, who again is in charge of trains and the rail system, says, no, I don't need to go out there.

I don't need to go out there. I don't really know what I'd do. Then he decides, after Donald Trump goes out there, that he's going to go out there on day 20. And basically he admits that 20 days after was probably not the right time to go out there.

But before he actually gets out there, a young enterprising reporter, I'm not sure which news organization, sees him walking down the street, puts a microphone, a public street. He's a secretary, is a cabinet level secretary. And he says, look, I'm not going to do an interview. This is my personal time. Do you know how offensive that is to the people who are dealing with the fallout of everything that's going on?

He doesn't have time to go out there, but he has more personal time. I'm sorry, but when you become a cabinet-level secretary, you don't get much personal time. You're working for the people of the United States, and this is not the first time we've had this problem with Pete Buttigieg, the transportation secretary. Personal time, when people are suffering and they're questioning what's going on, I just don't get that. And the last thing I wanted to note is Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter...

you know, I disagreed with the policies that he had in place when he was the president and probably why I was governor wasn't familiar, but

He was an unlikely presidential candidate, let alone unlikely president, right? Peanut farmer, businessman from Georgia, sends to the presidency. Quite frankly, I think most history books will say it didn't go so well. But what was never in question with Jimmy Carter, I think, was his integrity. And I think for the most part, people would say respectfully.

that he was a better former president than he was president. That if you want to look at a model of somebody who dedicated himself to the causes he believed, he dedicated himself to what he really did believe in his heart of hearts,

that he poured his time, effort, talents, and the goodness of being a former president into doing some real good with Habitat for Humanity and countless other projects that he did as long as he could possibly do. And that he and his wife were some of the best former presidents that this country's ever had. And just wanted to say that about the former president himself.

Jimmy Carter. All right. On the other end of the spectrum, now it's time to bring on the stupid because there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. So we're going to go to Kamala Harris, who's a regular on this segment here. I read about this on FoxNews.com and she was giving a speech.

And here, I'm just going to read these two paragraphs. Okay. Are you kidding me? That's what she said? I mean...

Somebody commented, what is she talking about? Electricity is up 11.9%. Fuel oil is up 27.7%. Natural gas is up 26.7%. And that's just one year after the previous year. To suggest that they are driving down the cost of energy in this country is such a fraud. It's just flat out stupid.

And Kamala Harris, Vice President Kamala Harris, that is the definition of bringing on the stupid. Don't lie to people. Give them the facts. Explain why they're there. But don't go out and say that you're putting more money in people's pockets so they can go out and buy a new dishwasher or go on a vacation when electricity, fuel oil, natural gas, petroleum, everything is up. And that's only because of the policies you put in place. You did this to us.

Joe Biden did this to us. The Democrats did this to us. It's because their policies aren't working. And if they are working, why is it cost so much? That's bringing on the stupid. All right. Time to transition. You know, I want to I'm really looking forward to having this discussion. Congressman Byron Donalds of Florida, if you haven't seen him or heard him before,

an amazing new member of Congress, newer member of Congress. He's not brand spanking new. But he is just the real deal. I've seen him now for a couple years there in Congress, just highly impressed. You've seen him on Fox News. And I think he's got an amazing story, but let's hear it ourselves. And so let's dial up Congressman Byron Donalds. Hello? Hello?

Congressman Jason Chaffetz calling you. Hey, Jason. How are you? Glad to catch up with you. I really do appreciate it. Thanks for joining us on this podcast today. I look forward to chatting with you. Oh, man, I'm looking forward to this. This is going to be fun. Now, did you think when you were a little kid growing up, like, yeah, I'll be in Congress. It's just a matter of time.

No, absolutely not. I wanted to play pro basketball. That's what I wanted to do. I'm still an NBA and college basketball junkie. I love the game. So growing up, it was basically go to school, play basketball. Never thought about politics, never once growing up. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about growing up because you are a representative there in Florida.

You took over a district of a good friend of mine, Tom Rooney. Tom and I were elected at the same time. So I'm kind of showing my age a little bit because I served with Tom Rooney, right, for a little while. And...

He left, I left, and now you got the seat. But even though you represent Florida, you're not from Florida, right? No, I'm from Brooklyn, New York. A lot of Floridians now from Brooklyn, New York. But I came here. I left high school. I graduated high school in 1996. And when I graduated high school, I went to college at Florida A&M in Tallahassee.

And from there, I was on the six-year plan. You know, I enjoyed myself way too much in college. And so I transferred from FAMU to Florida State after about three years, and I finished up my undergrad work at Florida State. Now, let's go back. Before I get into, like, what happened with college and where you went after that, let's go back to before college. Brothers, sisters, you were obviously, you said you were into basketball and sports, but what was life like?

for you growing up there in New York? - So, my mom and my dad, they never married. I think I was one when they split up. And so my mom, she has an older daughter and a younger daughter. My older sister, she lives in Atlanta. My younger sister lives in Los Angeles.

My mom still lives in New York. My dad, he goes back and forth. So sometimes he's in Panama. Sometimes he's in New York, depending on, you know, how the spirit moves him. And my dad, he had two older children older than me and two children younger than me. So on my dad's side, I have two brothers and two sisters.

I'm the middle child amongst like all my siblings. So, you know, it's a it's an interesting time. But we're all you know, we're all on really, you know, we talk a lot. You know, I'm probably gonna see my younger brother in a couple of days, spend some time with him. But it was just interesting growing up. You know, we it was me and my mom, you know, for the most part.

She was out of her job for several years when I was in middle school and high school. My grandmother would come in and help us whenever my mom really needed help. She just survived. She just did what she had to do, basically. Was this Queens? Was it downtown? Midtown? No, no, no. Brooklyn. Brooklyn, man. Always Brooklyn.

Yeah, if you ever mention Queens or, you know, or the Bronx again, we're going to have a problem. All right, I just want to make sure I got it right. I'm glad I asked rather than presumed, so that's good. But in Brooklyn, I mean, that's a little different than, you know, where I grew up and probably how I grew up. But tough neighborhood, sweet, nice. I mean, what was the neighborhood like? And what did sports mean to you in your life growing up?

It was an outlet. You know, I grew up in Crown Heights. And listen, it was hard growing up where I grew up. There were other places in Brooklyn that were harder than mine. But growing up in Crown Heights was no walk in the park. You know, I remember going to baseball practice at nine, 10 years old. And when you're walking from my house to the train station to catch a train in the morning, you have crack vials all over the street.

because the crack epidemic was going strong, you would always have to keep your head on a swivel because you never knew if there was a gang that was coming or somebody who was a stick-up kid or whatever the case might be. So sports was an outlet for me. Sports was the thing that really got me out of the house.

Because my mom, she was strict. And so she didn't really want me hanging out in the streets all the time. So sports was my avenue really to get out of my house. And then I just, you know, just liked playing. You know, my first, I guess my first love was baseball, watching, you know, the Mets win the World Series.

you know in uh in 86 and seeing that on tv so i was like oh i want to play baseball remember watching dow strawberry hit home runs you know the 87th year to 88 year i was like well i want to play that and then when i was in middle school i fell in love with basketball and that's just what happened you're a good size guy but you know you're not 6'10 either so um what position were you playing

uh played a lot of some guard a lot of forward you know you know when I was in high school I was one of the bigger kids on the team so you play a lot of four you know four power four for the people for the uninitiated you know play four position some five position our guards are small but then also you know I never really understood like all the work it took

to be good at sports. Like I would go to practice and I would practice hard and, you know, do the things that coaches asked of me, but all the additional work outside of practice to get better. Like I didn't know any of that because there was really nobody around to teach me. I would play pickup in the park sometimes every now and again, but you know, it wasn't really until high school that I started understanding, oh man,

you really do have to put in additional work to be successful. You got to go out and shoot more. You got to go dribble more. You got to watch the game and really dissect the game in order to understand it. So was there a mentor in particular in your life growing up that, you know, gave you sage advice and got you going in the right direction? And so many turns a young man, young woman can make in their life. I don't care what neighborhood you grew up in. You can make bad decisions, lots of places, but,

But you can also find mentors who kind of, yeah, maybe they're a little bit strict. Maybe they, you know, push you in one direction or the other. But, you know, they ultimately, upon reflection, are people that got you going and helped form those core values. I mean, look, my mentor growing up was my mom. You know, there really wasn't anybody else there. I mean, coaches would do what they could.

But it was my mom. She was the one that was always pushing on me about my grades and about being disciplined, about thinking logically, not getting caught up in the hype and what everybody else is doing. You got to focus on you. And in a lot of respects, that core teaching from my mom is a lot of what built who I am. It's just...

You do what you need to do. You don't really get caught up in what other people are doing. And it's got to make sense. Like whatever you're doing, it's got to make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, if it's not logical, you got to see that and get away from it. What was, if you don't mind me asking, what was mom doing for income? What was her trade, if you will? And, you know, there's so many great stories.

moms that just step up and do it and dads too and mentors. But there is that person in your life who drives you and pushes you. I mean, the first instance you mentioned your mom, we talked about, oh, she was strict. She didn't want me just out roaming in the streets. And that's in large part what it takes, right? A big time. You know, even having sons now, I just let my sons do whatever they want. You know, they have to understand that certain things are required of them.

And you have to do that. You have to, you have to excel in those things. You have to meet those goals, you know, but for her, she was strict, man. She's toughest lady I've ever met in my life, man. Toughest nails. And there, there are no excuses with her. And so you understood that. And I definitely understood it. Like, if I want to be able to go out and have friends, then I have to make sure my work is done. I have to, there are just certain things I have to get done or I'm going to be stuck in the house and you

You talk to any 14-year-old boy, that's the last thing they want. So what were some of the chores you had to do in the Donald's house to make good, make sure mom's giving you the two thumbs up? Everything. You got to mop the floors. Yeah, I did say mop because I don't think a lot of young kids today know what mopping the floors means. You had to mop the floors. You had to obviously sweep them first. You couldn't mop the floor and then say you cleaned the house.

because she would look at the floor and be like, well, why do I see specks of dirt? Did you sweep it? And I'll be like, no. And she'd be like, well, then do it again because you did it wrong. So you have to sweep, mop, do the dishes, clean the bathroom. We didn't have a dryer.

So you had a clothesline. So when you were done washing clothes, you had to use the clothesline. And we lived on the second story. So if the clothesline was on this loop and you could just keep pushing stuff out and you have to hang all your clothes.

And you got to hang them right, because if you don't hang them right, they fall down into the yard below. And you got to go downstairs and get them, rewash them and hang them again. And it was just you got to keep your room clean. Your work's got to be done. And it was just rinse and repeat. And that's just what was that was life. You know, I think like my mom, what she was trying to do, like first she.

She worked for the city of New York. She was in public administration. And, you know, she when she was pregnant with my youngest sister, I think I was about 10 at the time, nine or 10 years old. I was nine. She lost her job with the city. And so from that point until I was about, you know, a sophomore in high school, she was just, you know, picking up odd jobs, trying to find ways to make ends meet.

you know we were on food stamps we were on wick you know all that stuff and then when i was a sophomore high school she went into teaching became a teacher then she became an assistant principal and that's what she did the rest of her career when you're grown up was it just assumed that you were going to go to college i mean was it just like something she talked about and said of course you're going to college this is what you got to do

Or was that a little bit more iffy? No, it was demand. It wasn't even a thought process. There was no option. It wasn't an if. It was always, and so you're going to college and you're going to do this. So for me, it was like, I guess I'm going to college because that's all I ever hear about. There is no other way.

And for her, I think her, she viewed it as going to college was the pathway to being successful. Number one, to not be a statistic and get caught up in, you know, what goes on in the inner city. Two, that was a way to build something for yourself and for your family. And that's always what she, what she like really strived for me to do. So which college did you want to go to? I mean, you're there in Brooklyn, not in Queens, but,

And so you're there in Brooklyn, but I mean, you ended up in Florida. How did that happen?

Honestly, I was in the guidance office one day and they had the book of colleges on the table. And I just started looking through the book of colleges. And the first thing and mom, forgive me, but the first thing was, man, I got to get out of here. I need to go far because like I said, my mom is tough. I love her, but she's tough. You get there's no slack. So, you know, being a young kid, I just want to go far.

And so I decided looking at colleges, my high school was predominantly black. But when you go through the book, you would see like demographic breakdowns. And I would be like, no, I want to go to a place that looks more like my high school. So I really stumbled on to this place called FAMU, Florida A&M.

I'm thinking Florida, cool, because, you know, I like palm trees. I didn't realize that Tallahassee has neither, so I figured that out later. But I just wanted to get far. And then when I was in high school, I took a class. It was an elective in investments, and part of the class was you took –

you had to pick a stock. I picked Nike stock at the time and I did really, really well. And so that kind of, it really, you know, piqued my interest in investment. So I decided I was going to major in business and try to get into investments. And, you know, at the time, the guys in investments, those are the guys who had the brick cell phones and they wore nice suits and

And so they're one of the few people that has cell phones, guys and investments and doctors, you know. And so that's kind of what I had a vision of. Like, I want to do that.

And so FAMU had a, they have a degree package where in five years you can get your master's and your bachelor's in business administration. So that was all right up my alley. That's how I ended up going there. So you were a good student then? Did you get right in? I mean, like, how were you going to pay for college? College is expensive. Oh, you just borrow money through student loans. That's how I paid for it.

I knew my grades were good. So I got in. Getting in wasn't the issue for me. Paying for it was the issue. So because I was out of state, the per credit hour was higher than if you're in state. Like I remember at the time going to FAMU, if you were in state, it was like a hundred dollars a credit hour. It was cheap.

Like really cheap. So, but if you were out of state, it was like 7,000, 6,000 or 7,000 a credit hour. I can't remember right now. So, you know, my mom took out a loan. I took out loans. And then I became a resident of the state, was able to get down to that cheaper rate. And that's how I did it. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Congressman Byron Donald right after this.

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Okay, so you're going through college. You realize that, hey, maybe the NBA is not necessarily in your future. You came to that realization, right? Oh, man, I came to that realization when I was not even really recruited coming out of high school. There was a couple of Division II schools that kind of looked at me, and they were in Vermont, and I was like, I want no parts in Vermont, so that ended pretty fast. But, you know, I knew that was kind of a done deal.

So you just move on with life. It's like, okay, what's next?

And so what was next was trying to get my degree. So you did get your degree, right? And then what? So I graduated from Florida State. I went to FAMU. I transferred, went to Florida State, graduated 2002 from Florida State. My girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, she came down to Naples after we graduated. And the reason why she came down here is because her mom was living here and she was just trying to save up money

before she could follow her dream, which was to go to New York and, you know, live in Manhattan and work in Wall Street and all that stuff and work in the corporate environment. I came down here and visited her. And down here in Naples, Florida, is nothing but banks and brokerage houses. And there was nobody who was young. So I said to myself, well, why don't I just come here and start my career? Because when I graduated this 2002,

9-11, obviously, just happened. So the job market in New York was awful. The job market in most of the country was awful. But in Naples, there was a job market. It wasn't like a major one, but the biggest thing people were looking for was just young people to come in at the ground level and work. And so I said, why not me? So what was that first job? So my first job was I got hired as a bank teller. So my wife and I got married.

Our oldest son, she was pregnant and I just needed to get a job. And I was interviewing for two jobs at the time. And one job I was like, no, I don't think this is the right place. Prayed about it. And I just really got it in my spirit that that wasn't the right place. You know, that was total God decision because it was the right decision. And I took this job as a bank teller. And I even remember my wife was like, what are you doing taking a job as a bank teller? You got a degree in finance.

And so I took the job and like 60 days later, they promoted me into the credit department. Now, what most people don't know, a bank credit department is where loans, commercial loans are underwritten. So somebody is applying for a loan. The credit department is where they do the analysis of whether you're going to get the loan or not. So that's how I started my career in finance. I was in the commercial credit department at a community bank.

And I started moving up, you know, moving up the ladder there. I was after a year, year and a half. I was the manager of the department. The next year I was like named officer of the year and I was an assistant vice president. Then I was managing the whole department and then I was doing reports to bank regulators.

And that was all kind of came together over my, you know, five years at, in the start of my career at banking. What was, when you have that little baby arrive, how, what was, what was life like? What was, what was different about that experience now that you're the dad and you got this, a wife, got this little, little child. What was that like?

man i cried i'm not even going and i'm not a crier i probably could count on both hands at times i've cried in life uh no i cried because there was this little person i'm now responsible for him and the funny thing about him is my oldest son damon if people see us out now because now he's 19 like we're big we're the same size we look the same

You know, he has more hair because he grows his hair out. He grows his beard out. But if he cut his hair like me and put my jacket on, members of Congress would think that he's the congressman. I swear, man, it's the funniest thing. Like we get mistaken for each other. But it was just having somebody you knew you were responsible for.

And the biggest thing is I just wanted the best of everything for him because, you know, I didn't grow up with my dad and, you know, I've forgiven my dad. And when we talk every now and again, but not having my dad in my life, I think really impacted me. And I never wanted that for my children.

So it was a surreal feeling to know that there's now somebody I got to take care of and I got to provide for them and be that leader. It does. It gives you that motivation and that perseverance and that, hey, we got to work this that much harder because you want to have good things. You want them to be safe. You want to be protected. You want to be taken care of. And it's just such a life-altering moment. When...

So you're going along, your career's going well. Do you have a wife? You got a child? At what point did you look around the room and say, you know, what I really should do is get involved in politics?

So that was by accident. This is now 2008. No, actually, let me back up. In 2007, when I was still in banking, I was forecasting recessions. And I remember I put in one of my reports to the regulators saying,

And it was basically like, if we're not in it already, soon Florida will be in a recession and with it the country. I remember the language to this day. And I turned a reporter into my superiors and my boss came back to me and he goes, Byron, the report is really good, but you can't say a recession. I was like, why not? That's what all the data says. He goes, yeah, but only the government can call recessions. And I was like, okay, well, whatever. I'll strip it out. So, yeah.

I left banking later that year, or I think it was the next year, because I didn't want to do bank workouts because I was like, this is not going to go well. There's going to be a bunch of loans that you got to work out. I don't want to do that. I'd rather just go on and do something else.

So when I was working in insurance, that was the next stop of my career. We had international clients and they didn't understand what was happening with the financial collapse. They were concerned about their investment here in the United States. And I was the guy because I had a banking background and an economics background. I was the guy that had to go and do the research. So when I'm doing the research for our company, for our clients, I'm

I started watching more news, because at that time, every news outlet was covering the foreclosure crisis, what's it mean for the economy. I was watching CNBC and stuff like that. On one of the news shows, they were talking about how Congress was holding a hearing on the financial collapse.

So I turned on the hearing, turned on C-SPAN, first time in my life. And I was listening to the members of Congress at the time talk in this hearing about the financial collapse. And Jason, I didn't know what the hell they were talking about. It made no sense at all because, I mean, here I'm a guy, I'm working hard, I'm in the industry, you know, middle management, whatever.

And I knew more than they knew. And frankly, it pissed me off. And so that's what got me thinking about politics. So, you know, from there, after all that, I started getting more and more engaged in it. That's when the Tea Party rally started in our area. And so I went to one because on the news, they were saying that they were a bunch of racists. So

So I was like, you know, let me go see. Let me go see for myself. Going back to what my mom always taught me. You know, you don't really listen to what anybody else says. You figure things out for yourself. So I went.

and saw people who were just talking about the things that I was concerned about, like the national debt, bank bailouts. People were really upset about TARP. We shouldn't have done it, all that kind of stuff. And I'd met people there, and we would just have conversations and talk about not so much politics. Of course, there were a lot of people there that did not like Barack Obama, but they were more talking about the policy and the Constitution and why they didn't support him.

And those are things that we got to the policy points. I was like, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. I totally agree with that. And I just started getting more and more, you know, into politics that way. You know, it's interesting because I went through, you know, I when I ran was 2008 and I.

All these things were written about this and they characterized it as that. And yet I'm out there doing meeting after meeting, after meeting, after meeting. And it was, it was all about policy. And I was kind of a policy geek and loved it and thrived on it. And, and yet I went through my entire election and I never had a single reporter in Utah go to one of my events.

And then I'd go back and I'd read about my events. And I'm like, I know you weren't at the event. And your characterization of it is this crazy radical whatever. All these words that I just thought, you weren't actually there when we actually did talk about these issues. So...

I think that was happening all across the country. And I think so many people have gone through that experience. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I remember one day, similar story. I'm at a tea party rally. I think it's 2010.

And I was standing between these two old white ladies. You know, they're old. They live in Naples. It's a thing, you know? So it's, you know, lady number one. Then it's me, like the 6'2 black guy, you know, and then it's white lady number two. So there was a reporter from the local paper and she came down. She interviewed the lady on my right. She interviewed the lady on my left and completely ignored me. Like I wasn't even there.

And that was the first time I got acquainted with like media narratives. It was like, well, dang, I'm standing right here. You could have asked me why I'm here, but that wouldn't have fit the narrative. They took they published a picture of the lady on my left. Like I'm standing a foot away from her. But they made sure that when it was when it was printed, I was nowhere in the picture. Like they made sure of it.

And I think that that's really been to the detriment of the country. But it was really interesting during that time to see how much the media, still to this day, how much they try to set narratives and keep narratives, and they don't want anything breaking that up. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Congressman Byron Donald right after this.

Where did you like? You're a very conservative person. I don't know all your policy perspectives on every issue, but I mean, I just know enough. I've seen enough, at least from afar, that I gathered that you're a fairly conservative person. Where does that come from? Like where? Well, like why?

So the first book I've, like I said, like I was much more a policy person. So I remember the 08 elections and I would watch, I watched those debates. Those are the first really were the first presidential debates I really watched. And I remember my mom calls me one night and she was just like, I'm so excited.

I can't wait to vote for Obama. Aren't you going to vote for him? I know you're excited, too. And I was like, Mom, I'm not voting for him. And she was just like, what? She's like, why? And I was like, listen, I think it's obviously historic and monumental for a black man to become president of the United States. I totally understand that and totally get it. But I don't agree with him.

I said, Mom, I've listened to the debates. I've listened to him talk about policy. I don't agree. So how am I going to vote for a guy I don't agree with?

That was in 08. I think what happened after that was the more I started really digging into policy, the first political book I've ever read, which isn't really a political book, was The Law by Frederick Bastiat. Great book. I recommend it to any young person trying to think about politics, trying to figure out who they are. I tell them, go read that book first before you watch Fox News or MSNBC or any of that stuff or follow a politician. Read that book. Yeah.

Amen. So I read it. Yeah. And it illuminated to me like the basics of conservatism and conservative thought. And then, you know, I read, you know, Second Treatise of Government, read some of it. You know, I read Democracy in America is way too long. So I read little excerpts of it.

And then I found this guy on YouTube called Milton Friedman, started watching his stuff. And I was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense to me. 'Cause I have an economics and a finance background. So my whole, my life was, look, this is about money. This is how it works. This is how it grows. This is how people can grow themselves or whatever.

So when I started paying attention to politics, I always came at it from an economics mind, from a finance mind. You know, found guys like Walter Williams listening to their stuff.

And before you knew it, I was like, man, I'm really conservative because I agree with these things and it makes sense. And that's kind of, that's where it came from. And so you did ultimately end up running right for the state, for the house there in, in Florida. Is that, do I have that right? Well, actually we got to back up on that. So when I was in the tea party movement, this is now 2011. So I'm in the tea party movement and you know, I'm,

you know i'm just helping organizing doing meetings giving speeches in the community and herman kane was running for president so i volunteered on like the local county herman kane campaign so when the campaign ended like earlier that week our congressman at the time connie mack said that he was leaving to run for the u.s senate so our congressional seat was open

So people on the Herman Cain team, they asked me to run for Congress. And I was like, y'all are crazy. Like, nobody knows me. I'm just a regular person. And they were like, you're smart. People like you. You know the issues. You know, when you do interviews and stuff like that on like radio, people really listen. You will be great at it.

So I thought about it and I ran for Congress in 2012 and I didn't know what I was doing. And, you know, frankly, losing was the best thing that could ever happen to me because I didn't know what I was doing. Campaigns were like a whole different world to me. But I won 15 percent of the vote in a six way primary and I and I won my county vote.

So I beat the guy who became congressman who was in my county. I beat him in my county. I lost the larger county. So that kind of showed me, oh, wow, you know, maybe I can do this.

And for a lot of people in Southwest Florida, they were like, who the heck is this Byron Donald's guy? Like, who's this guy that wins the county and has no money? I think I raised like $80,000. And, you know, for people listening, $80,000 in a congressional campaign is nothing. You know, back then it was nothing. It's really nothing now. So I kind of had that as a tip of my cap. And I stayed involved politically and I was still working and doing my stuff in my career.

And then I ran for the state house in 2016 and I won. I was a state legislature for, from 2016 to 2020. Oh, that's good. And just, you know, just so you know, I, I won my primary running against 12 year incumbent Republican. I won through the, through the, I should say through the convention with $74,000. So it is not much money when you're trying to run a congressional race, but it's,

you know, especially when you're up against what is a large amount of money on the other side. And, but it is good because then you learn, all right, now I understand how it works. Now I understand what I got to do.

And congratulations. So you're in the state house, but then you decide, hey, I'm running. I want to run for Congress. Well, actually, on that one, I wasn't going to go. I wasn't going to run. You know, by 2019, I had accomplished a lot of what I wanted to accomplish in the state legislature. You know, the one thing I wanted to do was universal choice, ESAs. And, you know, when Ron DeSantis became our governor, he flipped the court.

The package got run to start ESAs. So I was just like, okay.

Well, what else am I going to do? Like, I didn't want to just do agency bills and lobby lobbyist bills for four years. So I was kind of ready to leave politics and just go back to normal life. And our congressional seat came open again and people asked me, they were like, hey, would you consider running? And I was telling people, no, like, I don't want to do it. And they were like, you will be really, really good. I'm like, yeah, I'm ready to just leave politics and go back to business.

And then a friend of mine who does campaign work, he calls me and he goes,

Byron, do not let anybody talk you out of this race. You need to run. Don't say anything to me. Let's just meet in a couple of days. So I said, okay, I said, we'll meet. And then he, we talked about it and he was like, well, look, just build a team and then really think about it as you build a team. And so I went through the process of building a political team of what I felt we would need to win. And I really thought about it, prayed about it, decided to run.

And, you know, I won the primary by 774 votes and haven't looked back since. Wow. Wow. What did what your mom say? Oh, man, she was happy. My mom will tell me, but I knew it. I knew it all the time. And I'm like, come on, what did you know? Nobody knew. I didn't know. You know, my friends from high school, friends from college, they're still like, dude, we still can't believe this is you. And I'm like, you're not the only one because I really can't believe it.

you know she she's super proud super proud you know she's watching fox news all the time you know because she i'll do an interview i get a text message from her that was great bravo i'm like you know it's cool having your mom you know still back behind you doing all that stuff well you know next time i gotta figure out your mom's telephone number because you know every once in a while they let me guest host over there and i get a chance to interview you and

Maybe I should call your mom and get a few questions from her first and then see how you react and see if you got the answer right. No, no, no, no, no. We're not going to do that. Mom gets to hang out in the background. Listen, everybody knows moms will tell stories. We don't need that. That's probably what I should do with the podcast. I should probably do like political moms and then just do like that would be a really good podcast series. That would be really fun. But I digress.

All right, so let's go back here to you're being a conservative and what really informs you and stuff. And for me, it was partly getting married, partly having our first child was a son, forgetting my first paycheck, and just the whole concept of personal responsibility for, if you're an able-bodied American, you should be taking care of yourself. And yeah, we're going to have a safety net, but

But, you know, the idea that somebody was going to come and, you know, my dad had filed for bankruptcy at one point. And, you know, that's tough to dig out from under. But I didn't think it was also the federal government's responsibility to come bail us out for mistakes that, quite frankly, he made. How did that – when I talk about that, and you relate your own story, what jumps off the page at you? I mean, the biggest thing growing up is you –

You know, we were on government assistance, but we never looked at it like this is going to be this is life. You know, my mom was trying to find every possible way to get off of it. The second thing is growing up in New York at the time I was growing up in New York, everybody's trying to hustle. You know, everybody's trying to find a way to get money to do the next thing, to be bigger than where you were. You know, people trying to find a million ways to try to escape.

you know, escape the hood, you know, some are illegal. We know about that. Some of it's chasing, you know, superstardom, whether that's basketball or football or baseball or music, you know, or acting, but everybody's trying to find a way to hustle and be, be more than how you grew up. And so for me, it was, for me, it was just like, well, why do we put barriers in place to stop people from doing that?

Like, if anything, government policy should just be to set rules and get out the way and then let my hustle take over. You know, I always tell my friends and I tell my kids now, like, my attitude in life was always just let me put let me get my foot in the door. Because once I get my foot in the door, I'm going to just let everything else take over.

And so for me, I've always looked at it as conservatism is the philosophy and the value set that allows people to be able to access doors. And once they get in, then it's their hard work and it's their talent and it's their will that'll take over from there. Like it's not perfect because nothing's perfect because we're human beings. Well, but you know, to hear the Democrats talk about it and their belief and their worship of a big government, the government should take care of all that. That,

Everybody should be equalized. You're in the halls there with the AOCs of the world. So now that you're there and you see it and you hear their arguments and their passion for it, what's your response to that?

My first response is that their policies don't work. I did a virtual town hall the other day with a black group, and they were asking for the Republican perspective, and I gave it to them. And I was like, look, let's take a look at something like banking. Everybody says that we need our black businesses to be able to access capital. I totally agree. But here's the problem.

The policy solutions put forward by Democrats and some Republicans has been terrible for community banking. So if you're a micro business, you employ three people, you need a banking relationship. You're not going to get one from Bank of America or Citi or Wells Fargo. You need it from the local community bank. But there aren't really any community banks anymore because of bad governmental policy.

So instead of saying, hey, let's undo the policy we did, the Democrats say, oh, well, let's do something new. Well, wait a minute. You didn't go back and fix the problem you created in the first place. And I don't want to blame you like you did it. I'm smarter than you. But let's just make sure we get it right.

So that if you're a small black business owner, you can have a banking relationship, get access to capital, help you grow your business. That's good for you. It's good for your employees. It's good for your family. And then it's good for the black community overall. It's good for it's good for the trajectory of black families. All that stuff is not just good for black people. That's good for America. Yeah, that's good for all of us.

And that's the path I choose to take when I talk to the Dems. I think that there are a lot of Dems, some, not all, that they can't get elected unless they're a Democrat. Although they don't agree with a lot of the policies, they know if they don't vote for this stuff, they're going to get primaried and they won't be in Congress. It's a sad thing to see, but it's true. Having had side conversations with certain people, they're like, man, Byron, if I could be a Republican, I would be.

But because of the way politics is laid out in the country right now, they can't be.

It's a little sad thing for public policy. It is because there are too many people, as I observed it too, that, you know, I kind of parsed it into very loosely, you know, there were there, there were those who were there for all the right reasons, which I get the sense you are, they care about policy. They just want to do what's right for the country and for their constituents. You had another group that's just oblivious to why they're there. They're just kind of, eh, they like the power of it. They're sort of retired. They got a lot of money and,

Yeah, we just kind of, you know, it's prestigious to be a member of Congress. And then you got another third who just there for, you know, the power of it. And they can't really tell you what the policy is all about, but they love being in a powerful position. And that's what drives me crazy because you want to just have a substantive discussion on policy because you feel like you could win the vote if you win the argument on the policy. Yeah.

Yeah. So like, you know, to the point you just made, I remember when I was running in 2020, I told the voters here, I was like, look, we had nine people in the Republican primary. I was like, guys, everybody up here is basically going to vote the same way. But this is a very conservative district. And if you don't, if you vote wrong, you ain't gonna last. Let's just let's just start there. You're not going to last because the voters aren't going to allow it. So

You're a member of Congress. Whoever you choose to pick in this primary, they're going to vote right. I said, but you got to also have a member of Congress who can lay the foundation and message on what the politics, what the policies are to help affect politics. If you can't message, it doesn't matter what your idea is. You know, you're a tree that falls in the forest. You don't make a sound because nobody's paying attention.

I was like, so you got to be able to do both. And I really think that was kind of like the winning argument for me was, you know, I could sit here and talk about the in and outs of social security reform or, you know, or whatever the policy is. We can go through that step by step. But so what if you can't convince people it's the right thing to do? You are. And that's what's critical. Yeah, you are so, so right, because I mean, I just on so many fronts, it's.

It's why you very quickly become a leader in the body and that, you know, you do so well on Fox and all that. Margaret Thatcher is, you know, there's a lot to learn from her and her success as a conservative leader and a tough time for Britain. But I just love the way she framed things. And she just talked about first you have to win the argument. Then you can go out and win the votes.

And that's exactly the same thing that I hear you saying. And it's why we're going to hear a whole lot more from you and we should. Um, and particularly for the conservative movement, um, you've been so generous with your time. I do have a few rapid questions cause I could talk to you for like hours just to kind of illuminate a little bit more who you are, where you came from. And, uh, and so, yeah, let me kind of run through some of these real quick and then, uh,

Well, we'll cut you loose here, but what was your first job? Like away from mom, besides doing the mopping, which is different than sweeping. What was your first job? When I was 14, I took a summer job as a janitor at a summer camp. Ooh. Yeah. It was cool. It was different. What was your first concert you attended? Oh, man, first concert. This will have to be – so this was in college, right?

I got to go with Kappa Luau when Trick Daddy and Trina came to Kappa Luau when I was in college. I think it was 1997, 96 or 97. We won't hold you to the date. Yeah, but that's what you remember. What was your high school mascot? Oh, the Kingsman, a knight. So I went to Nazareth High School. We were the Kingsman. First celebrity crush?

Oh, Ashanti. There you go. Loved her. Still do. Ashanti. What's the Byron Donald's superpower? Like, what can you do that like, yeah, I'm really pretty good at that? I just keep things in perspective. I don't get too high. I don't get too low. People always see me. They're like, man, why are you so calm?

And I'm like, cause the sun's going to come up tomorrow, man. Unless I'm six feet under the sun's coming up tomorrow. So, you know, like during the, you know, during the speaker stuff, the speaker's vote, I was pretty even keel and people are freaking out. People are mad. People are like, what's going on? I'm even keel. And they're like, how do you stay so calm? And I'm like, guys, I was held, I was held up at gunpoint at 16 years old. When that happens, a lot of stuff just ain't that important anymore. Yeah. Puts it in perspective. Yeah.

Okay, so you come home, you tell your wife, hey, guess what? We got a special guest tonight. If you could invite one person, dead or alive, throughout history, whoever it is, who would you want to have come over and break bread and maybe share a meal with? Man, that's so hard. I really got two because one, I'm just a fan, and one, I'm just really in awe of. I'm going to go with the first I'm in awe of. That would be Frederick Douglass. Mm-hmm.

Because he's kind of, in a lot of respects, he's the pioneer of the Black conservative movement, I would say, or one of the early pioneers. And who I was a huge fan of is Kobe Bryant.

I'm a huge Kobe Bryant fan, even though we were contemporaries, we'd be the same age, but I was just in awe of his work ethic and his tenacity. And I mean, look, he had his faults. Everybody does. Everybody's got frailties, but the level of work ethic and commitment to the game, just to be able to pick his brain, that would be pretty cool.

You know, I was always a big fan of the way he played and the tenacity and his desire to win. And it wasn't until, unfortunately, you know, after he passed away that I think a lot of the sort of the documentaries and the other things kind of came to light. And I've watched several of those.

And I, I become such a huge Kobe fan because yeah, he had some personal transgressions that I think he would, even he wishes he hadn't participated in, but it's totally setting that aside. His commitment, his work ethic. I didn't understand his time overseas and his,

the language skills that he brought, and I loved the stories that he told about just working so much harder than everybody else. And then having to recover and come back from the Achilles tendon stuff, I just became a huge fan. So I agree with you there. That guy is – he was somebody special, and it's sad that we lost him so early in his life. Yeah.

All right. Just a couple more. Unique talent that nobody knows about. Something you can do that, you know, like I can juggle or I can, I don't know what it is, play the banjo. What can you do that nobody knows about?

I don't think I do that. I just stay up late. I'm up a lot. People are like, how are you still going? I'm like, I just do it. I don't drink coffee. I guess it's probably my superpower. All right. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no?

Oh, absolutely not. Get a me on my New York pepperoni cheese and sauce. That's it. There you go. I knew there's a reason we really liked it. That's a that's a very good reason. All right. Last question. Best advice you ever got. Best advice. Oh, when I was my my boss, when I was still in banking, my last boss before I left the community bank, he told me, whatever you do, get to the place you're trying to get to by 40.

He said, just do whatever it takes to get there because 40, your forties and your fifties are the place where you're really going to earn your money. And your twenties or your thirties is when you're learning your craft to get to the place to make the money. So,

So do whatever you need to do. Get to the place you're trying to get to by 40. Now, you could tell I completely messed up his advice because now I'm a public servant. So you got to forget the money piece. But it was great. I was on my way. That was one of the reasons I almost didn't run for Congress. I was on my way. But no, it was great advice by Terry Spurlock. God rest his soul. He passed away a few years ago. Great advice. I tell it to every young kid.

um, that, that I meet and, you know, yeah, get to where you got to get to by 40. Well, you, you're an inspiration to a lot of people. And for those, uh, of us who are, are rooting for conservative principles to get this country back on track, you are certainly one of the leaders and one of the people that we're cheering on. And, uh,

You know, I believe you get in, serve, you get out. And when you're there, you got to make you got to be an impact player. You can't just sit on that back bench and think, oh, you know, 10 years from now, then I'll be eligible to be one of those people. That's not the way it works. And it's certainly not the way you've you've approached your time in Congress. So I look forward to chatting with you more just in general, but also on the air and watching you in Congress, because, boy, you're off to you've been there a little while now, but you're off to an incredible start.

I appreciate it, Jason. And just thanks for the opportunity to be with you. No, I appreciate it.

All right. Congressman Donalds was very generous with his time, and I could have listened to his stories time and time again. It's good to see good people doing good things and in the right spot and wishing nothing but the success personally, professionally. And gosh, sometime I do think it would be good to do that interview with his mom. I think that would be really fun. Please rate the podcast. Could use your help there. Rate it, review it. That would be good.

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And one other thing, you can go over to foxnewspodcast.com, foxnewspodcast.com, and see all my other colleagues that have podcasts and clips of shows. And it really is an amazing array. So I'd encourage you to do that. Again, rate it, review it, and join us again next week. I'm Jason Chaffetz. This has been Jason in the House.

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