Senator Mike Braun: A Position To Win
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Welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and thanks so much for joining us. We're going to have a good discussion today and talk a little bit about what's going on in the news. Highlight the stupid because there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. And then we're going to phone a friend. This time it's going to be a freshman senator. He's really doing a lot of good things behind the scenes.

It's from Indiana. It's Senator Braun. I don't think anybody really expected that he was going to win that election. Certainly when he started, you had two congressmen that were serving from Indiana that ran for the Senate. They kind of beat each other up a little bit along the way. A fresh new face, Senator Braun was able to scoot through the middle of that and was able to win. And

You know, he's not on all the television shows all the time. He's not always out there doing, you know, the Sunday morning television and whatnot. But I can tell you with my experience in the Congress behind the scenes, he is a very thoughtful leader and he's a steady hand and he knows business. He knows how to balance books.

I think he's rooted in those Indiana values, and I think we're going to have a good discussion with him. So I'm looking forward to calling Senator Braun of Indiana, get to know somebody who is a real player behind the scenes and is a big part of the future for the Republican Party. But before we get into that, let's talk a little bit about stuff that's going on in the news because it's been going on for some time. I think it's going to grow and expand.

But you see this interesting thing where truckers, particularly in Canada, have kind of come out of the woodworks and gotten together and banded together. And look, you've got to remember, it's still February, right, in the country and certainly in Canada. Yeah.

You've got to remember, it's February. So the truckers are in a unique way to actually protest and protest peacefully because they could be in the cab of their truck. Now, one of the interesting things here to me is that Justin Trudeau, for far too long, I mean, look, today it could change or even yesterday it could have changed, but

For weeks now, Justin Trudeau, the prime minister, has not taken the time to actually go and meet with the truckers.

Truckers are like the heart of the blue collar movement in whatever country you are. I struggled to find any political issue where the truckers are the problem. In fact, I remember at the beginning of COVID as we kind of got into the whole thing, who were the heroes that were actually out there moving goods and services? And it was the truckers. I remember when COVID, this is March, right? Two years ago, COVID was really coming into play

And store shelves, there were runs on things and suddenly things were being gobbled up off the shelves in rapid fashion. It was the truckers that kept at work. They were working just around the clock to get us the toilet paper and the food and the chicken and I mean all the things that we needed in order to continue to sustain ourselves.

Well, so you fast forward now, these people are just so fed up with these mask mandates and you're thinking about truckers, right? They're in their own cabin, their own, you know, going across borders and between the United States and Canada and even other parts of Canada. And they have just had enough of it. So they start this convoy and it grows in popularity. And suddenly you've got thousands of truckers in Canada who've banded together. Well,

They've got an ability and a right to make a point, a political point. There's nothing nefarious about what they're doing. I think it's downright shameful that the media and Justin Trudeau have tried to paint these people as something other than patriotic and caring about Canada.

that they're, you know, people with swastikas and all that. But you don't see any pictures of this stuff. I see the live reporting that, for instance, Fox News, I believe it was Molly Lyons, is out there. She says she's seen nothing of it. She sees truckers with their families, wife, kids, in the cab of the truck participating peacefully.

So they're honking their horns. I mean, really, that's the big crime that these truckers have done? I got to tell you, this has been so mishandled by the Democrats. I think they've totally misread that. You know, we're going to talk to Senator Braun, but he actually had one of the great, I think, points and observations about Trump.

what's going on with mask mandates generally, not just the truckers in Canada. But you start to see these states pull back now from some of these mask mandates suddenly. The science on masks, by the way, it has not changed. It has not changed. What Senator Braun said in a tweet, which I think is right, and I'm not quoting it exactly, but he said, the science didn't change, but the political science did change.

And that is they did the polling. They started to realize that across the board, people are tired, they're fed up. And the reality is, based on the science that I've seen and I've heard about, cloth masks really don't slow the spread. N95 masks, properly fitted and secure, yeah, they can do a job. But the idea that these cloth masks, it's a little bit more theater, particularly for kids.

There's no statistic out there that shows that kids have an overwhelming threat to them, transmission or getting the virus. And yet we're making these kids seven hours a day. I heard this one story of there was a women's tennis tournament and they're playing a singles match. Tennis. You're pretty far apart from each other. Singles.

and they're making them wear a mask. Kids trying to play soccer and just having a hard time breathing because you're breathing so hard and yet you have this mask on. I don't need to explain it to you. I think every American's there and can come to their own conclusion. And look, here's the bottom line. If you like a mask and you feel more secure in a mask, then wear a mask. And if you're afraid of being around people who aren't in a mask...

then don't go into a setting where there are people who don't have masks. But don't make the rest of the country fall in line with what you want to see specifically because you don't have science behind you. The masks are not going to protect you if you think you're wearing some cloth mask. And at this point, aren't you supposed to if you've gotten a vaccination, a second vaccination, a booster vaccination?

That's not enough. You can't have it both ways. So I think America is done with this. I think Canada, the Canadians are done with this. And I think the truckers are personifying that. You couple that with the Stacey Abrams of the world who were caught wearing no mask in front of kids. She goes to visit a school. She's a candidate for governor in Georgia.

She takes off and has no mask while she photographs with the kids and then says, oh, I just did it very briefly for one photo. Now, that's not true either, because then other photos emerged where she wasn't wearing a mask meeting with other people and there in that visit.

Man, add that to the long, long list of people who have preached the idea and insisted and put mandates in place for masks and then are caught not wearing the masks themselves. It's just crazy. So just got fired up on that one. And I know that you probably get this fired up as well. The other thing I wanted to talk about came out a little while ago, which is

The USCIS, which is United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, somehow, someway, they decided to redo their mission statement. We have a problem. We have open borders. We have all kinds of challenges with literally hundreds of thousands of people flowing across our borders.

Not checked, not verified, not given COVID tests, none of this. Coming from about 150 countries around the planet, our open border policy on our southern border is just fundamentally and totally wrong. And so in the midst of all this, they decided at the United States Citizenship and Immigration Service, they had to remove some things from their mission statement. Part of what they took out is...

Lawful immigration. They took those words out. They took out protecting Americans. They took that out. That's no longer part of the mission statement. And securing the homeland. They took that out from the mission statement. They are a subset of the Homeland Security Department. So if they're not there to secure the homeland and they're part of the subset of Homeland Security, what in the world are they doing?

Now they want to uphold America's promise as a nation of welcome and all this woke stuff. Immigration is supposed to be there so that the people that go there through the lawful legal way come in through the front door, do the proper paperwork, do the vetting, learn about our system of government, pass tests, and then go through the process. They can eventually become a citizen.

Or if they properly qualify for a particular visa, they can come here for the time of that visa and then they can leave. You know, prior to Biden and Harris, we were told about 40% of the people that are here illegally came here legally. They just never left.

Well, that's a problem. Okay. So you have to enforce that. What I've said for a long, long time is that the people we aren't serving, the people that we are, we are abusing and missing are the people that are doing it legally and lawfully. Those are the people that should be rewarded, not the people that are coming here illegally, but

That's not those aren't the ones that we should be welcoming. Those are not the people that we should be treating with kid gloves and just opening up our borders. And then once they get here, spending U.S. taxpayer dollars, sometimes through non-government organizations to send them out into the rest of the homeland. And now to have USCIS change their mission statement. Come on.

Come on. That's ridiculous. All right. Now it's time to bring on the stupid because you know what? There's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. I've already kind of mentioned it. I already kind of spilled the beans. I couldn't help myself. But Stacey Abrams saying that she was just temporarily took off her mask for a picture with the kids. And then she got well, then other photos came out and now she's changing her story again.

And then that story didn't hold up because the other photos came out. So then she goes out and she apologizes for it. That ain't good enough. You know, I'm thinking about Stacey Abrams, right? Candidate for governor in the great state of Georgia. What is going through her mind? I'm assuming that her story, her revised, then revised again story is true. That she came there in a mask. Well, what runs through her head to say, you know, I really should take off my mask now because they're going to start taking photos.

What she's saying is, I really want to be recognized and I need this for my social media more than I want to protect these kids from getting COVID. That's really what she's thinking about there. That's where her priorities are, right? I mean, what else could she be thinking about if she's not wearing a mask?

She didn't do it with all the other kids. If you look at the picture with the kids, they're all spread out. They're all like six feet apart from each other. And then she plops right in the middle there. And so she's tighter than the six feet that you're supposed to be doing. No mask. But then she got caught because other photos emerged with other people there at the school. And they're kind of all standing in a line and she's not wearing a mask. And

I don't know what was going through her head, but I think that photo and those photos now, but particularly the one really personifies where the Democrats are in the mess. They preach one thing. They demand one thing. They make everybody else go through all this hardship and problems and all that. But when it comes time to them, don't worry about it. I don't need it.

I need a better photo. And that to me is just flat out stupid. All right, the next thing I wanted to bring up is members of Congress trading stocks. Now, Nancy Pelosi, who I read is worth something like $114 million. I mean, she's been in Congress for decades, but obviously her husband has been able to accumulate a massive amount of wealth. Hmm, I wonder how that works. Don't you always wonder about these stocks?

People who serve in Congress for decades at a time, and then now it's a $174,000 salary. They've got to have two places, their hometown residence plus something in D.C., unless you did what I did, which is sleep in your office. They suddenly become these multimillionaires. It really does make you scratch your head. Well, it was noted some time ago, years ago, that...

There were members of Congress who were really given access to insider information and they were trading individual stocks. That got out of hand, so then they created the Stock Act.

which made you have to report stocks in transactions to create more openness and transparency so you could see where the conflicts of interest. But then you have people like Congressman Jamie Raskin. He is the congressman out of Maryland whose wife, and this is a whole other set of story, she goes out and evidently sells $1.5 million worth of shares of stock

And while you're supposed to report that, I think it's 30 or 45 days that you have to report that. He failed to disclose that. Whoops, I forgot to do that. Now, he had a tragic death of, I believe it's his son. And everybody understands that. And if he needed an extension, everybody would have said yes, of course. You're dealing with the loss of a child. But that's not what happened. I mean, his child did pass away. It was tragic.

But then for a long period of time, he never disclosed this transaction until, you know, just the last week or two.

Oops, I forgot to tell you that we sold stock and that I put $1.5 million of cash back into our accounts. Something's got to change there. I am glad to hear Nancy Pelosi says that, hey, we have got to make sure that nobody can trade these individual stocks. But she's insistent that the Supreme Court also do this. Now,

If you want to go ahead and do that, I think I'd be supportive of that. But the problem is in Congress. The problem is in the executive branch with these senior officials who know and can see things that the public can't. That's the problem. They understand when legislation is going to pass. They know what the calendar looks like. They know when there's good news and bad news brewing together.

They should not be able to trade individual stocks and it should be illegal for them to share that information that would give an insider an opportunity that the general public or current shareholders have. And so, Nancy Pelosi, I'm sorry, but...

for you to be preaching on this, I just think is bringing on the stupid. And it would be stupid not to pass the bill that says, sorry, members of Congress, put it in a mutual fund, have a blind trust, but figure that out, Congress. You've got to solve this problem. People are abusing the system. Jamie Raskin's one of them. All right, that's bringing on the stupid.

So now it's time to phone a friend. And I really have a great deal of admiration. If you study the Senate, you watch the Senate, see what's going on. There's a rising player in the Republican side. He's kind of quiet. He's not as flashy. He's not going to grab all these headlines.

But I think he brings those Indiana values and exactly what the Senate needs, which is sober, honest thought and a look at the books for this country. Let's dial up Senator Braun, the senator from Indiana. Hello.

Senator Braun, hey, this is Jason Chaffetz. Thanks for joining me on my Jason in the House podcast. I do appreciate it. Hey, my pleasure to be on. There's certainly a lot to talk about, Jason. Well, you know, I like to say there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere, and right at the heart of that is in Congress. And so, hey, you signed up for this. It is crazy and...

And what's your impression of it? I mean, you're still fairly new on the block there. You know, when I decided to run it in context, I had started a little business back in the early 80s that was little for so long. I didn't know if it was going to ever get to where I wanted it to be over the last 20 years prior to running for Senate.

you know, it's scaled into a national company and three of my four kids now run it with a good young executive team. So that was kind of the American dream. My wife and I moved back to our hometown where we both went to grade school, high school together, made it through college, lived away for a couple of years and then compared kind of the corporate ladder to starting our own businesses back home. So that's the context for me. It was a community of

faith, family, hard work. You couldn't tell the difference between the folks that own the businesses and the workers. You all kind of work together. That was a lucky decision for us to make back when it was very unusual. But I watched what was happening over the years and saw what happened in 2016 when Trump cleared the field within our own party

That got me interested because it looked like the dynamic in D.C. was going to change. I was a state legislator for three years. I was on a school board, which is a big deal now, I think, for 10 years prior to that.

And I had the kind of whimsical idea of running for Senate when in Indiana that had never been done before, unless you kind of came through the farm system of politics as I refer to it. So I was charged up,

Trump made it. I see how they went after him because he was not establishment from the outside and still look at what was accomplished in a few years with all the headwinds involved. And here we are. Now we've had a year of government gone wild, government at a level of, um,

I never imagined we'd be there. 18 trillion when I got here in debt, now 30. You know, Democrats, the federal government, it's their cathedral. It's their growth business, and they're not apologetic about it. But when you look at where we were pre-COVID, when things were working at the border,

you know, no inflation, wages going up the old fashioned way. And now we've tried to replace the productive economy with the federal government. Disappointing, but I'll fight on. I'm still excited about what we can accomplish. I think Republicans have to be a party of something. We can't be the party of no or I'm not interested. I was a problem solver in my business. I'd like to see that occur here.

unique opportunity. Independents are lined up with us almost lockstep. Normally they're in the middle. That's how bad the Biden agenda has been. I'm really concerned. What will we do with it? If we don't get the House back, Jason, we got to really do some soul searching. I think we should with margin. Senate's now in play.

How do we win the presidency without Hail Mary, you know, events each time to where it's so close? That's the part that we need to fine tune as conservatives.

Yeah, I think you're right about the messaging. And, you know, any party cannot just be, I think, the opposition party. Perhaps you'll have some success. But I think for a national party to do well, it actually has to have an agenda and it needs to articulate it. And then you actually have a mandate. What I see happening with the Biden administration is they did not have that mandate that what Joe Biden campaigned on, the way he said he was going to govern, he

is far different than what he did. And now they're trying to act as if they have some sort of national mandate to do some of these crazy Green New Deal, you know, all government all the time programs. And they don't. You know, when I was elected to Congress 2008 and Democrats had the House, the Senate and the presidency, and it was tough. It was difficult to be in the minority because they could roll through anything they wanted to.

yeah they had 60 senators uh didn't they uh as well with arlen spector changing parties in pennsylvania and and they are political enterprisers jason they are and we oftentimes are wall flyers when it comes to the things that we believe in

And we generally don't undo any of it. That's why this government has turned into such a monstrosity that so many people look to to help them out. But I mean, it's kind of run by the seat of its pants. Twenty three percent deficits annually now approaching close to 30 percent.

They, on the other side of the aisle, believe in the modern monetary theory that deficits and the cumulative debt that comes along with it make no difference. I mean, we know those chickens will come home to roost. And when they land, it'll be a hard landing. And I think we just got a lot of opportunity. But we have to have another paradigm and dynamic than what we normally do when the rains come back to us.

You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Senator Braun right after this.

All right. So let's go, let's go. You kind of alluded to this, but, uh, you know, you, the people that I know that I've seen that I've met from Indiana, just salt of the earth, nicest people in the world. Yeah, you're right. You couldn't tell if they were the CEO of the biggest company or the line worker, you know, assembling something. I did. I mean, you just couldn't tell. So, but your family, I mean, you met your wife back in, you said grade school, high school, uh,

in first grade first grade that's impressive do you have a picture together or something from uh you know first grade I don't know we've got our uh annual pictures and uh funny thing is we were just a in the same homeroom uh in high school yeah her maiden name uh was burger b-u-r-g-e-r

And we didn't actually start dating until the second half of our senior year. So I always explain that by the fact that I guess I had so many other options that I never could pay attention to her. She doesn't like that at all and flips it the other way. But we're lucky we came from families that were steeped in those community values. And, you

She went to Indiana University. I went to Wabash College with four classmates, all aspiring to being a doctor someday until I found out how many years of further education you needed. So I kind of flipped into thought I was going to go to law school, ended up getting a business degree. It was the right thing for me. And she ended up being an entrepreneur as well as had as her when we moved back in seventy eight.

She started her own business, Home Accessory and Gift Store, and still runs it and goes there with a full head of steam, just like she did all those years ago. So three of our four kids work in my business and three of our six grandkids live in our hometown. So we're lucky.

Now you grew up in Indiana, brothers, sisters, what was it like growing up? You know, a lot of people want to grow up, they maybe don't aspire when they're young to go be a United States Senator, but a lot of people would love that job, but only very few kind of ascend to that position. What were some of the things that were going on with your family early on and

including what was your sort of first job away from mom and dad? So we come from one of the most Catholic places in the country and especially in Indiana.

So that education grew up in a town of 8,000 people, had three parishes within that town. Sometimes I, especially growing up, dismissed that and then put two and two together when we lived away with that kind of religious underpinning. And I think we probably need to get more back to the way that was and the way we are now. The community values that go along with it.

My parents always kind of rooted me on, wanted me to try this and that, had a community that accommodated it. You know, I was involved in student government when I was in high school and college, and I didn't really ever think about becoming a U.S. senator until I actually worked in a Youth for Lugar campaign back in the '70s when I was at college.

but then was concerned about building a business, raising a family. You know, when you look at the founders, Jason, they actually liked what they were doing before

better and imagine the heady, exciting times of charting this great experiment. But if I recall, Washington and Jefferson hurried back to Mount Vernon and Monticello because they actually liked what they were doing before better. You know, I admire the fact that you served eight years and looked at doing something else. I'm a big believer in term limits at the federal level.

Don't know that we get the movers and shakers that need to come here to fix all the things that are wrong with it. But yes, I had the nurturing from a great family, a great community. And I think we can't dismiss that as being important. And we see, especially in our larger cities, the chaos, all the stuff that goes on and the fact that that is breaking down, I believe. And then you try to replace it with government.

even at a local level, poor substitute. When you were growing up, what were you doing for a job? Like, as you're a teenager, did your mom and dad just let you coast along and sleep in over the summer? Or did they say, oh, no, come on over here. You're going to do some work. Yeah, the town built its reputation on building homes

furniture out of wood. So office furniture specifically. My dad was a tail gunner in World War II and a B-17. That was the most dangerous job you could have fighting in that war. Most people

you know, enlisted, embraced it and look at that generation, what they did in sacrifice. So he ended up managing one of the furniture factories for most of his 39 years working, worked for that same company for all those years. When I wanted a little money to spend, I think there was this discussion, well, how are you gonna get it? And I think the offer was made to stack lumber

in the lumber yard during the summer and if i recall our average temperatures would be in the mid to high 80s and often in the 90s so you know i knew what that was about ironically several years later when i was going to school i my dad had a had

interest in a little company that did metal fabrication and sold a lot of products to farmers. I learned to weld out there during the summer. So it was that kind of work ethic. And if you didn't do it, you were noticed. So you would have been

out of the ordinary if you were maybe getting an allowance and floating along, even if your family had to wear with all to maybe enable you to do it. It just wasn't in our DNA in that community because it was hard work, roll your sleeves up, take chances,

Work hard and things will come your way in the long run. I didn't appreciate all that. Didn't really put two and two together on all that until I had time to live away for a couple of years. That's why we decided to move back there and it's worked out. Yeah, it's sometimes oftentimes that rear view mirror. I think, hey, wait a sec. There were some things going on there that I didn't appreciate or that I didn't know. And

Yeah, you can't hide in a small town like that. You got to kind of pull your weight. And I think there's so many, so many positives to small town living. Like I've lived in some of the biggest cities, but then my senior year in high school, I was up in a place called Winter Park and went to school in a place called Granby, Colorado. And I think my graduating class was 49 people.

And my town was less than a thousand and it's a whole different atmosphere, but there's something that's very appealing to that too, that I think there's some, some strength and some lessons and, and just some, uh, your ability to get along, uh, just, it just radiates from that. And I, I think that small town living is, is, uh,

is a good thing. What about sports? Oftentimes in these small towns, uh, people were playing a lot of sports and that's sort of the heart of a lot of the community out there. What was that like for you? Did you play any sports? I did. Uh, Indiana of course is the, uh, center of, uh,

high school basketball. I'm 6'1", and I was able to play basketball as a forward. I could jump, and I was pretty quick. I was a high hurdler and worked on that, set the school record back in 72 when it had been there since 55, was a split end. And, you know, athletics is

probably were the centerpiece of what I was interested in, maybe along with girls back then. I didn't hit the books like I should have. I was, I guess, blessed to be able to get through there because I knew how important that was, you know, for that next chapter, depending on what you wanted to do. But no, athletics was woven in there. That was a

where you early on learn competition, you learn working as a team. I think it's invaluable. And I've always, when you do make it to become a U.S. Senator, when your business is finally successful after so many years, people ask you, well, who was your mentor?

Jason, this is the thing that I think would epitomize where I came from and I think ought to be the answer for most people that end up hitting pay dirt in the long run. I didn't have a particular mentor. My mentors were my family, my parents, and my community. And I think when you can say that,

you generally are going to be pointed in the right direction. And sports would have been just part of that journey. I did run hurdles for a couple of years in college, but at that point, I knew I had to buckle down on the academic side of it and really pivoted to really focus on that. Viewed it as a challenge.

ended up doing well in that regard. And it got me into a great graduate program. And then I still mostly took direction from the DNA of my community, you know, from what I

I really had ingrained in me and then kind of complimented it with the education. And I believed in that ever since. Yeah. I think sports is, is so valuable. You learn a lot of lessons, winning, losing camaraderie, how to get along with people that you, maybe you wouldn't have interacted with, uh, before, you know, being in the same foxhole, if you will, with somebody and figure out how you're going to get out of it. And, uh,

and fight and win and, but then also just have some fun and some laughs and some, you know, some good times along the, on the way to, you probably figured out that maybe running hurdles wasn't going to pay the bills. We can't take that money, not much money in that to go down to the local grocery store. Is there?

Now, I tell you what, I knew that wouldn't be the case, but kind of metaphorically speaking, life is a bunch of, I either call them forks in the road or jumping hurdles along the way. And if you've got a temperament, if you've got an upbringing that, you know, really is based upon hard work, perseverance. And Jason, I think more than anything, and I think it's personified in government today,

that if you're risk averse or if you're willing to take

risk because in life, if you want everything to fall into your lap, meaning you never stick your neck out, that's kind of what the Democrats sell. And that only works if, you know, government is a real pivotal part of it. I've always viewed that kind of that street smarts of good judgment. And then knowing that if you're going to be successful,

it's not going to come your way. Windfalls hardly ever are in

the trajectory or your pathway. Occasionally, when you get one, savor it. It's mostly based upon taking risk in life in a way that puts you in a different place and then make sure that you don't overdo it. But nothing comes easily. You got to stick your neck out. And I think there's a political metaphor, too, that we as Republicans need to keep that in mind as well.

Yeah, you always want to be in a position to win, right? That was something I learned in sports. You want to be in a position to win, but you can't just show up and buy a lottery ticket and hope that, hey, that's going to open up the door. And of course, I'll just be there because you're going to get smacked down and beaten. You got to have some game with whatever you're playing. And I think that's true in business and life and socially and just everything else. You got to

try and put effort into it. And if you're a able-bodied American, yeah, that means you got to work. You know, it doesn't, you got to contribute. You got to contribute to your family, to your community, to the society. You can't just go and say, hey, government, why don't you just pay for everything? It's just not going to work that way long term. Jason, and one other quick comment on it. Sure. Because

My business was, I told you earlier, so little for so long. And then you kind of wonder, does it make sense? Because we had, I took some of those same principles, reinvested every penny, never took value out of that business, even when you could later, uh,

always kind of lived like you're going broke. You'll never go broke, always enterprising on finding new horizons. And if you do all of that and stick with it, the mid and long term become easy because then you've got just an array of options. When you've got a clean balance sheet, when you know that life doesn't fall into your lap, the

that you gotta work for it. And when we first confronted 9/11, again, '08, '09, and again here navigating through COVID, there were opportunities that came along because your competition, if they don't espouse those things,

generally cough up advantages to you. And you don't want to necessarily rely on calamity to be, you know, a way you springboard into a stronger entity. But it's the point that if you live your life

in a way, personally or by business, with those basic principles, the mid and long term give you a lot more options when you're trying to navigate through crisis. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more right after this. So you're having success. You're married. Your business is going along. And then one day,

You wake up or come home and say, you know, I really think I should put my hat in the ring. I think you said school board first. I really think I need to go forward to 14. So what in the world possessed you to do that? Well, that is those races are often tougher than running for Congress or the Senate. I tell you.

I always tell people that if you want to know if you've got the temperament, because on a school board issue, which we weren't dealing with critical race theory, we weren't dealing with masking mandates. Mostly it was financial. And even in communities like mine that are blessed,

If you let the board, if you let the superintendent dictate everything, parents will have a rude awakening, just like I did as a parent when I found that we weren't running our own school board in maybe a financially responsible way. But the call actually came in for my wife, Jason.

And she was so involved in our community, having a business downtown. She said, "Well, I'm not interested. Maybe my husband would be." And I said, "Oh." I was kind of shaking my head, maybe hoping or wishing she had not said that. But then I thought about it.

My business was moving. I didn't have to travel with that job. I said, I'll do it. I'm really glad I did because anybody out there listening err on the side of getting involved in doing things. Generally, you don't want to do it. It takes you off whatever your comfort zone is at the time. That's been kind of the dynamic that's driven me throughout life. And then when our local state representative

called me in 2014 when he decided to run for Senate. That was that next fork in the road. Business, two sons had been working in the business for seven, eight years, going well. A lot different than being a frequent flyer between Louisville, Indianapolis, and D.C.,

decided to do it. Infrastructure was a big deal because in the southern part of my state, we don't have much of it. I was able to co-author transportation bill, get some skin in the game bill passed that enabled local areas to actually advance a bridge or road project

And then I was not going to run for a third term, was going to come back to my business. And that's when I noticed what happened in 16, saw what Trump did in terms of clearing the field. Actually, Mike Pence was our governor while I was a state legislator. He gets tabbed to be VP and look at all

all that has happened since then. That motivated me in 18 when we had Joe Donnelly, who was elected, I think mostly due to a gaffe the Republican nominee made on abortion. I thought, well, looks like outsiders are now at least going to have a chance

- Jason, I started with 1%. The establishment wasn't interested in looking at my campaign until I took out two congressmen, Todd Rokita and Luke Messer. You may have known them from the time that you served. So interesting journey, glad I did it. I'm kind of like the founders. I liked what I was doing before better, but it's been an honor to serve. And we've been kind of an entrepreneurial Senate office

much more active and engaged both legislatively media. Cause I think it's important when you do have these opportunities to speak up, make your point of view heard. Yeah. So, uh, you know, my vantage point, look, I'm serving in Congress. I, I like Luke and I like Todd. I mean, he, Todd's gone on and become the, uh, the attorney general, correct. Uh, for there, for, for Indiana. He got elected. So, and he's doing a good job. Yeah. And he's a good guy. I really, I really like him. And, uh,

You know, the two of them, we thought, oh, my goodness, what they're beating each other up. And you just kind of conceptually had the sense. And again, I'm in Washington, D.C. at this point, watching from afar and really don't know the internal politics in Indiana. But those are the scenarios where you've got two people that are probably assumed to

to be, you know, the next in line because they've gone through the traditional, you know, hierarchy of, hey, now you're in Congress. Now the next thing you do is you run for Senate. And yeah, they're beating each other up and they created an opportunity for you to be Mr. Clean and come right up through the middle. Am I reading that right or is that oversimplifying it?

- You know, that, it was an entrepreneurial navigation for me. And the other thing, Trump won Indiana by 19 points. That was a loud, resounding message. And, you know, Trump was the ultimate outsider. And so I put all that together. It was still a difficult case to make because I think the first

poll that came out after I decided to do it, I was almost afraid to tell my wife about it because I think we rounded up to 1%. Many of my friends said, do you need to have your head examined? I was just at the right time. I've always had a good sense for opportunity, realized the odds, had to put a lot of my own skin in the game to get it off, headed towards first base.

in the primary, then out raised Joe Donnelly, my opponent, in the general. And here I am. It seems like it's sometimes longer than three years in the Senate, sometimes shorter. That 15-month journey, Jason, traveling the state,

14 to 18 hour days, six days a week that fit right in with my work ethic. I was doing that while the two congressmen were still punching hard at one another until they realized into the third debate, I did four debates with them.

Generally never used notes, just drew on my experience in life. I think Hoosiers could see that it worked, did the same thing with Joe Donnelly, but ended up winning with ease in the primary. And then the wrath of Chuck Schumer and his outside money financed by guys like George Soros descended upon that campaign. And I knew it was vicious.

It's hard for your family though, to see how campaigns are run today.

distortions, outright lies. I grew up in Mayberry RFD. So they didn't have a lot of real material to work with, but it's made up. You get through that and you understand the game and I'm hardened to that now. So, yeah, that's the unfortunate part. I think it's why a lot of good people decide, Hey, I'm not going to do that. It's not that they're worried about the truth. It's going to come out. You need to worry about all the stuff they're going to make up the whisper campaigns, the

this is the flat out lies, the salacious stuff that they try to, to, to attack you, you know, that you try to defend your family and, you know, your kids and, and your, your wife, you know, they shouldn't have to go through that, that garbage. But unfortunately that does, does happen. But I also think voters figure out the authenticity component every once in a while, there's somebody who slips through, but then there's a, a course correction along the way. But yeah,

Yeah. So now that you're there and it's a small exclusive club and it's treated differently and every time you step out of your office, there's a camera or somebody with the tape recorder wanting to get your comment on this, that and the other. How is it different than what you anticipated it to be? Well, we have kind of diverged into the Hatfields and McCoys on major issues.

One side thinks that it's been working. The federal government is their cathedral. It's their growth business. And they are political entrepreneurs and enterprisers. It's just that they've never taken finance 101. And they're going to run the whole system into the ditch. Jason, Republicans have been somewhat complicit. I call it the unholy alliance.

I believe defense is the most important thing that we do in the federal government, but I don't hold it sacrosanct. So I think it ought to be subject to audits and budgets. And sadly, right now, of course, we're talking about spending that should have gone through regular order and true budgets, not budget resolutions.

done by September 30th of last year, we're doing CRS. And the only good news about that is that's the only way we'd keep government spending in check because we're now talking about dams wanting to increase domestic spending 13 to 15% defense only two, but now they're starting to lure us with high percentage increases for defense.

The policy that I think is most important that we should do best. I'm not going to fall for it. So that's where we roll over, give them what they want on domestic. We get what we want on defense.

Now, all of a sudden, we're a trillion and a half more in debt. It was a trillion through the end of the Obama years and through the Trump four years. I was hoping in the second term of a Trump presidency, and I think he would have he would have started focusing on how we start to reign this beast. And I don't know. I'm now an appropriator. I don't know how they let me become one because I'm one of the most fiscally conservative individuals in the Senate.

I still think we need to be enterprising in terms of being a party for something. Take small government effective approaches to tackle the high cost of health care. It was a mistake when we were just against Obamacare and defending a broken health care industry full of big corporations that have us at the

healthcare costs in the world as a percentage of our GDP, independence won't go for that. So I'm real anxious to see what are we going to do? And we have been served up abundantly

a big menu of disappointment, even independents agree with the Biden administration. I think we'll get the House back with margin to spare. The Senate is now in play, even though we got like twice as many senators up compared to the Democrats.

And then the big issue for Republicans, when you look at the demographics, when you look at Arizona and Georgia, who used to be like kind of New Mexico and Colorado, very, very red. But demographics have changed in all of those states. We've got to figure out. And I love what the House is doing, trying to appeal to blue collar Republicans.

potential candidates, bring in people that normally haven't been Republicans, become the party of workers and Main Street entrepreneurs, shed the alignment we've had with big corporations and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce over the years, and hopefully we'll put all that together into a winning game plan. Yeah, I think the country is salivating for somebody who

authentically campaigns on something that they'll actually do and that they will tackle the big issues out there. If you want to be given the levers of power, you got to show that you're going to be the adult in the room. And I don't think that, I mean, the country is about as off track. And I think there's today, there was a new numbers out about how Joe Biden's approval rating is. I mean, they, they just haven't counted it that low in a president's

certainly just going into a second year. So a golden opportunity for Republicans to make the case. But I totally agree with you. They have to make the case and then they have to actually do it.

And I think voters will reward the party that actually does what it says it's going to do and doesn't play the smoke and mirrors cat games that they do to, hey, we're going to do this. And then as soon as they get there, they start to go another direction and put Americans first and get our fiscal house in order. I totally agree with you. Senator, you've been very generous with your time. I want to get to know you just a little bit better. So I've got some rapid questions I need to ask you.

I'm ready. All right. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how much furniture you built in your life and put together and, you know, how much small town values you've got. I don't know if you're ready for these questions, but we're going to ask them and give it your best shot. Okay. I'll try. All right. Favorite menu item at Taco Bell. The basic burrito. All right. Favorite childhood toy. Probably a basketball. Yeah.

Get after it early. That is as true Indiana answer as it can possibly get. Is that like the standard answer for anybody from Indiana? No, because I had to think about it because you normally don't start shooting until you're four or five, but the basketball is rolling around even as a kid because –

That's how big a deal it is, not only at the high school level. You got to remember Bobby Knight and the Hoosiers. And now we've got a great team in Purdue that's up there in the top ranking. So we just really ooze basketball.

college basketball it's it's a big deal pineapple on pizza yes or no no oh good answer senator we we knew we liked you but that is the only acceptable answer i appreciate it that was quick too yeah no doubt about that no hesitation there no no meat and fruit together exactly uh unique talent that nobody knows um i think it's having a relatively long fuse and a temperament

that generally has helped me building a business, and especially here in the Senate. That is a very kind of amorphous talent, but that is something that I've been blessed with. - No, very good.

Okay, so if you could meet one person, you and your wife said, hey, you know what? Let's have somebody over for dinner tonight. If you could have one person over, dead or alive, anybody in our nation's history, who would you want to have over for dinner? You know, I think it would be Thomas Jefferson because when I look at what he did, you know, with the Declaration of Independence, our third president, and I really –

I really liked a couple of things that he said with this beautiful experiment. I hope that we never try to vote ourselves into prosperity. That's kind of paraphrasing, but my

has that become a kind of a warning that is playing itself out. And I like the fact, and I mentioned it earlier, that he and Washington in those times when it was unbelievable that they put it all together,

They really wanted to go back to the farm after they served. And I would love to talk about all that. Yeah, no, that would be a good discussion. All right. What was your high school mascot? Wildcat. Of course. A lot of wildcats there in Indiana. That's good. Two more questions. First concert you attended.

First concert, this is a dandy. Sha-na-na. Sha-na-na. Very memorable. Before we get away from that, I went to about four or five Moody Blues concerts. They were a group out of the late 60s, early 70s, would be my favorite group. And not a big concert goer, but I went to about four or five of them. I'm familiar with them. Their songs, they got some...

Some oldies but goodies now. And last question for you. Best advice you ever got. I think the best advice I ever got would have been back again from my parents and that they wanted me to enterprise. They wanted me to do things. And I think the best advice I could give to anyone listening is

Always err on the side of getting involved, sticking your neck out, taking a little risk because it really sets you up in a good place for whatever your next act is going to be.

Good advice. Senator Braun, Indiana, still in his first term there. But I think we can see why people of Indiana had a great deal of confidence in you to take on such an important role. And it does take some, you know, having your head screwed on straight there and having some of those good old fashioned Indiana values. I wish we had more of that in the United States Senate. I think we would be able to actually sit down, roll up our shirt sleeves and

find that common ground, but also the principles that will get us back on track as a country. So thanks for joining me on the Jason in the House podcast. I do appreciate it. Hey, it was my pleasure. Enjoyed every minute of it. Well, I can't thank Senator Braun enough. He was generous with his time and a lot going on in Washington, D.C. Thanks for joining us on the Jason in the House podcast. Hoping you can rate this, you can subscribe to it, give us some stars there. We would certainly appreciate it. And you can always...

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