Kathie Lee Gifford: Joy Is Non-Negotiable
01:02:31 Share

It's time to take the quiz. Five questions, five minutes a day, five days a week. Take the quiz every weekday at thequiz.fox and then listen to the quiz podcast to find out how you did. Play, share, and of course, listen to the quiz at thequiz.fox. Welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and this is going to be a great podcast. You're going to enjoy this.

We're going to phone a friend, Kathy Lee Gifford. I've actually never spoken with her before, but Kathy Lee Gifford is going to join us and I really look forward to it. I mean, she's,

just an iconic personality. She's got a new show on Fox Nation called The Jesus I Know. She has a book out of that same title, and she's been in living rooms and on televisions for decades and really one of the most well-known people in the country, and she's going to come join us, and we're going to have a discussion. So I want to

take a little hot take on the news and then obviously we're going to highlight the stupid because you know what there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere but I'm really looking forward to this conversation with Kathy Lee Gifford but let's talk a little bit about the news and I think the important message I think I want to share here is we kind of come into this Easter holiday and in season

is that the United States of America, I believe, is the greatest country on the face of the planet. American exceptionalism is largely rooted in our ability to practice our religion as we see fit. You know, that was a unique concept a couple hundred years ago, that we would have religious freedoms. But the attack that continues on religious freedom and the exercise of religion continues

the exclusion of religion by too many. You know, you hear some of these arguments that say, oh, there's supposed to be a separation between church and state. That's not in the Constitution. That's not what it says. The First Amendment is really there to protect religious speech and religious participation. Not that the state is supposed to be out there saying and demanding and unifying behind one religion.

But it recognizes that our history is based on this religious freedom that people wanted to participate in. And yet today, today's council culture, today's wokeism, you're not supposed to say that. You're not supposed to get anywhere close to that. That's going to offend somebody. Well, you know what? The greatness of the United States of America is based on our religious freedom.

individualism, our ability to practice those religions. It's the foundation of our nation and should not be shunned and put away in some closet or, hey, you can't say that around here. I think those types of things need to be actually celebrated and highlighted and understood. And there is diversity in that, but we shouldn't shy away from the diversity of religious thought that should be embraced.

So that's my hot take on the news because oftentimes when you look at wars and you look at conflict and you look at all this wokeism that's out there and all these people trying to change and manipulate, so much of it is pushed upon universities or schools or your kids or just you and your day-to-day life. And everything is supposed to be given up in terms of religious beliefs and

in the name of, oh, it's equality and equity and you don't want to offend somebody. Well, you know what? There are people that believe religiously you shouldn't be doing certain things and that's okay. That's not evil. That's just part of their belief in religion. So...

That's my thought on the hot take of the news. News is always changing hour by hour, minute by minute. But those principles of religious liberty and freedom and freedom of speech intertwined, I think, our core to who we are and should be not. They don't waver. They don't they don't movable their principles and they should be true no matter what the situation is. So that's my take on it. All right.

We always bring on the stupid, so let's highlight the stupid because you know what? There's somebody doing something stupid somewhere. All right, Dr. Anthony Fauci back on the list. He tends to continue to be perpetually on this list.

With another flip-flop, here's his latest quote. What's going to happen is that we're going to see each individual is going to have to make their calculation of the amount of risk that they want to take in going to indoor dinner is going to functions even when the realm of a green zone, Fauci said. He was on ABC's This Week. It's going to be a person's decision about the individual risk they're going to take and quote,

Hallelujah to say individuals get to make their own decisions and that's good. But why do you continue to flip and flop? Let's not get off of that. Individuals, given the information, consultation with their doctor or not, can make up their own decisions in deciding whether or not they're going to do certain things like get an injection, wear a mask.

There can be recommendations, but recommendations is far different than mandates and manipulation. And, you know, Dr. Fauci, it's just unbelievable how back and forth. It's time for a new person in that role. If America wants to gain confidence in the CDC again, we're going to need somebody else. And then I'm going to go to the smoking gun as I do, because in Florida,

Ah, there was a little squabble. These women... They had a problem. And they had a conflict.

And the one woman evidently used her cat as the weapon, put it up in her face of another woman, and it scratched her. And that attack led to the calling of police and the arrest of this person who had been living with this person for four years. She was arrested last year for allegedly punching her girlfriend in the mouth.

During some drunken argument about their relationship, now all of a sudden the police are back and instead of punching her in the mouth, made some progress, but maybe not because she used the cat to scratch her, scratch this person in their squabble. I don't know. It's just stupid. These poor policemen that have to deal with this sort of thing.

it's sad really but it is stupid and i feel for these police officers that have to show up and deal with this so on the one hand you have fauci doing the flip-flop and on the other hand using a kitty cat not a good idea to be using that as a weapon on somebody when you're having an argument because it did reach out did scratch and the police did need to get called and that folks is just bringing on the stupid

All right, now what I really want to get to on the other end of the spectrum, somebody who is out there with a really good positive message. And I want to highlight here,

No matter your religious beliefs, I think the spirit in which you approach life and people is so important. And Kathy Lee Gifford has got this new book out. She came out in November. And she has a Fox News or a Fox Nation series out, The Jesus I Know.

Now, if you don't choose to believe in Jesus Christ, I think you're going to get something out of this. I think that says something positive and just being a really good person and being inspirational. But I'd love to hear Kathy Lee Gifford's take on it. And so let's phone a friend and call Kathy Lee Gifford. Hello.

Hey, Kathy, this is Jason Chaffetz. Who's that? Exactly. Thanks for answering the phone and thanks for joining me on the Jason House podcast. I really do appreciate it. Oh, it's so nice to be with you. Thank you so much. I know this is your rookie go at this and, you know, but don't worry. Well, it is my rookie go with you.

Well, that's true. I just want you to, you know, I don't want you to get nervous or anything. No, I'll try not. I'll try not to. I sang the anthem at the Super Bowl once. Since then, it's been hard to scare me. You know? What was that like? Tell me about that. Like, when they asked you, like, I mean...

Did you think, oh my gosh, if I forget these lyrics, I'm just going to die? No, you know what? I grew up in a family where my father said, honey, I love you too much to deny you the privilege of making mistakes.

And so they created this sense of fearlessness in me. My mother was a little more of the frightened side. They were great parents. I mean, they weren't letting me walk across the street with trucks coming, that kind of thing. But in terms of my gifts and flying, soaring, there's a scripture that talks about soaring on the wings of the wind with God.

And they were big believers in that they're supposed to give birth to me, grow me up in the fear and the love of the Lord. And then they're supposed to kick me out.

And let me fly. And they'd be there if I needed them. So, yeah. But right before I went on, and, you know, there are billions, I don't know how many billions of people watch that thing. This was in 1995. There's something called, you know, because you're in show business now, that there's something called Last Looks. Yes.

And that's when, you know, the hairdresser gets the last chance to look at you and your makeup artist gets to land your wardrobe and then you walk out onto the field. Well, right before I went out there, my makeup artist was touching up a little bit of mascara, stuck it right in my left eye. And my hairdresser on the other side of me blew a hairspray into my right eye. So.

So when I got out onto the field, the words, oh, say, can you see, took on much different recognition. I went, no, I can't see, but thank you very much. But it was prerecorded back then. They made you prerecorded because it's synthesized down to the nanosecond with these jets that fly by and

and all of that. So it had been prerecorded, but that doesn't mean you can't, you know, mess up, especially because I didn't know this, but Frank and the ABC team was, were the hosts of it that year. And Frank said, and here she is recording star in television, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. And my wife and I went, Oh no.

You know, now people are going to think I got the gig because I'm sleeping with you. I mean, he was my husband, but still. And I was like, I'm going to kill him when I get home. And I'm thinking that right about when the... And then I hear the boos. And I hear people booing me in the distance. Really?

And I didn't know what it was, but by then I'm into, oh, say, and I'm a pro. I've been a professional singer and actress since I was 10 years old. So you just, you do what you got to do.

And I later found out that because Howard Stern had chosen to be an enemy of mine, I didn't have any enemies. I still don't. But he, you know, some people choose to be an enemy. He took me on when I first joined the show with Regis as a local show and decided that he hated my guts and everything else about me as well. And for the next 30 years, he may, I was fodder for his, I never met him. I never listened to his show. I never, um,

Anything like that. I couldn't understand where that was coming from, except for I know that hurt people hurt people. And I knew he must be some very, very deeply wounded man to just go about your life being so horrible. He asked his listeners, if you're down there at the game when Kathy Lee is introduced, boo her.

And that's what that was. But you know what? This is a, I learned many, many years ago in walking with the Lord that the first thing I have to do when someone hurts me or insults me or in any way causes me pain, I have to forgive them because that's what Jesus does. And I don't have to forgive him just because Jesus says to do it. I have to forgive that person for my sake.

Because roots of bitterness can take hold in us and in our hearts. And when they do, they become like a cancer. They mastest, what is it? They mastest, mastisize? Mastisize, yes. And that's not good. And then it spreads and then it infects everything. And then you ultimately die. We die from bitterness. That's hard to do, though. I mean, that's a hard lesson to learn. And I mean, part of the reason we're chatting here is because of this Fox Nation podcast.

event or special that's streaming on Fox Nation, the Jesus I know and the book that you've written. But how did you learn that lesson? It's one thing for your parents to say, Kathy, this is how we do things. But it's another thing to actually learn it. How did you learn that principle? Because it's a hard one to apply even when you're older, let alone when you're younger.

Yeah, it was easier for me when I was younger because I had just become a believer in Jesus when I was 12. And I hadn't become cynical in any way by that time. It was a long time ago when I was 12, believe me. But I said, well, that's what Jesus says to do, so I'm going to do it. So I already had tried to become an habitual forgiver before.

And then your wounds get deeper as we get older. They just do. And once you've loved much and deeply, it's usually sometimes those are the very people that hurt you the deepest. So sometimes it's hard, but in general, it's a muscle. I think forgiving is a muscle, just like brushing your teeth often.

And when you walk with God on a daily basis, He's not somebody you go and visit in some building on a weekend for an hour or so. When you actually live and move and have your being in Him every nanosecond of your life, I know it sounds weird, but it becomes your first instinct. Your very first. Because Jesus on the cross said, forgive them, Father. They don't know what they're doing.

They don't know they're crucifying the creator of the world. They don't know that they're putting to death their very own savior and that I'm doing this for them. And if Jesus can have mercy during the most, you know, I guess it's like the most hideous form of death ever devised by a human, evil human mind. If Jesus could do it, he's our model for everything. Now, do I think I'm a little Jesus walking around? No, but I do know what he is.

I know the road of blessing that comes when you do walk with him. When Jesus said to his disciples, follow me, they had no idea what that road was going to be. They just responded to his beautiful invitation. He loved them and they could tell it already. They knew that he saw deep into their soul. Easy for him to do because he was God and God incarnate in a human body and

And every single one of them, except for Judas, who, of course, we know what happened to him, betrayed Jesus and hanged himself. And then the only other disciple that wasn't martyred for their faith was John. And he was exiled onto the island of Patmos. And we don't know what happened to him. But he wrote the book of Revelation. And God had him there exiled for a purpose. And that's the other thing. When you learn Scripture...

And I don't mean just, you know, the little Bible verses like in Sunday school. I mean, really, really delve into where scripture came from and study it. I go to Israel and I have been since I was a young teenager to study rabbinically with the Messianic teachers, the Messianic rabbis.

And they are the most grounded, the most deeply knowledgeable Bible scholars in the world. And so they know, especially that the Old Testament was written originally in Hebrew and the New Testament was written originally in the Greek language.

But most of the Bible translations in the world today are very bad translations. Very bad. I mean, if you ask most people, what did Jesus do before he became a rabbi? First of all, they don't know what a rabbi means, many of them. And they'll say, oh, he was a carpenter. I'm just giving you an example of this. First day, I was studying rabbinically. I think I was at the Valley of Elah in Israel where David fought Goliath.

And I'm getting a notice here from my friend saying, you got to bring up the book pretty soon, Kathy, and the special. And I said, let me just finish this one thought. OK, Christine. Anyway. Yeah. What do you think Jesus did? And we all said, well, he was a carpenter. He goes, actually, no. And we went. I thought to myself, what am I doing in the Valley of Elah with a guy who doesn't even know the Bible?

And it turns out that the word for what Jesus and his earthly father Joseph did professionally, the word is tekton from the Greek, which actually means when it's translated properly, builder or architect. And so from that, the English guys who translated the Bible from Greek into English, who'd never, ever been to Israel before, just said, oh, he was a carpenter like us.

Well, no, there was no buildable wood in first century AD. Everything was rock. It's a desert. You go out to the Holy Land and it's, first of all, it is so inspirational. Isn't it amazing? It is absolutely amazing. He was a stonemason, Jason. There are places where there are a significant number of trees. But those were planted after Israel became a nation in 1948. It mostly is...

Desert. It's rocks. Even when you go up to the Sea of Galilee, it's a place of rocks.

Yes, yes. It was a desert and still is. And it's technology and it becoming a nation again in 1948 where all this innovation came in and everything. So I'm getting the evil eye from a very godly woman here that I'm supposed to channel, start telling you about. Well, no, this is good. It's not her podcast. This is the Jason in the House podcast. We're doing just great. Yes, you're passing your audition here.

Kathy, don't even worry about it. I want to go back, though. I want to go back to what you said just a few minutes ago about –

12 years old. What was it that happened when you were 12 years old that really converted you? It sounds like that was an inspirational moment. Well, even the word converted, I sort of bristled by. I'll tell you why. Because my daddy was Jewish and my mother was a Gentile. But

The story of Christianity is a Jewish story. It's Jewish from beginning to end. And people don't know that in our Western culture. I'll have people say to me, now, Jesus was Catholic, right? I'll go, are you? What?

No. And, you know, so there's a lot of biblical illiteracy. And it drives me crazy because I was biblically illiterate until somebody started to teach me what the Word of God actually says. When I was 12 years old, I went to a movie that the Billy Graham organization put out. It was the first one and it was called The Restless Ones.

And it was about a young girl on the cusp of womanhood who had a choice between going the world's way or God's way. And I remember sitting there in this darkened movie theater in Annapolis, Maryland. And all I wanted to be since I was born was an actress and a singer. So I'm in a movie theater. And it's just like the Lord to meet me personally in a movie theater, not in a church, but

No, a movie theater. And I heard the voice of Jesus say, and it was as clear as your voice is to me today. He said, Kathy, I love you. And if you will trust me, I will make something beautiful out of your life.

And I got up out of my seat. My brother tried to make me sit down because it was not a great section of town. And nothing could have stopped me from going down to that altar there and asking Jesus to come into my heart and be my Lord and Savior.

And so the word converting is just not what happens when when when somebody who is Jewish decides to receive Jesus as a Messiah. What it does basically is that it fulfills you as a Jew. You don't convert. You don't lose your Judaism. You don't lose your Jewishness.

You just learn a deeper understanding of who the Messiah is and was when prophesied so many, many times in the Old Testament. Read Isaiah 53, and you will see, oh, he was pierced for our transgressions. It's a picture of the crucifixion. It's totally the crucifixion. This is what was going to happen to the Messiah.

And so I have spent my adulthood now trying to bridge the misunderstandings between Jews and Christians. We are one story. It shouldn't even be called the New Testament and the Old Testament. It's the covenant. The Old Testament is very much about God's, the legalism of what God was trying to do to create a people, a nation, a godly nation that would usher in the Messiah.

And then the second part of that is once the Messiah is born in, we think, 4 BC. Because Herod died in 4A. I'm getting it screwed up, but we can tell when it actually happened. And after that, it was about love and mercy. And Jesus said, I didn't come to get rid of the law. I came to fulfill it.

So, studying that way, and I do have a different book called The Rock, the Road, and the Rabbi, that I would encourage people to read if they find this interesting. I wrote it with one of my favorite rabbis in the world, Rabbi Jason Sobel.

And he's a genius Bible teacher. And it talks about my experiences in the Holy Land. And then he takes us deeper and deeper and deeper into what the scriptures really say. And I thought maybe five copies of that book would sell. And it's sold well over 600,000 copies now.

Because people are interested spiritually. They do have a spiritual curiosity that I just thought everybody was just happy sitting in their pews and saying Jesus is a carpenter and all these other things that are just not true that are in the Bible.

Yes, they're in the Bible, but in a badly translated form. And people wonder why they don't have power in their life. They wonder why, hey, I do everything it says to do. I go to church. I pray. I this. I quote scripture. I study it. But the truth is, if you are not learning the source material,

And applying that to your daily life, you're not going to have the power God wants you to have, to live an abundant, that word in the New Testament is the word zoe, abundant life that God wants us for all of us. So there's a lot of pressure in the world, particularly for this younger generation. They probably said that about...

previous generations and whatnot, but there's a lot of pressure. I'm sure you had a lot of pressure being in the world of entertainment and everything you were doing and singing and acting and being on television. You're not supposed to talk about religion. You're not supposed to acknowledge Jesus Christ. What?

Kathy, that's just not what we do around here. And some of these kids grow up in an atmosphere where how dare you talk about that at school? Don't you? You can't. This is a portion of your life. You can't do any sort of acknowledgement or you're just... Canceled. Yeah, you're canceled. Well, Jesus never canceled anybody.

And I knew as a child, a very young child, and especially once I was 12, that God was going to use whatever gifts he gave me in my mother's womb. Long before I was born, I was in that secret place where David in the Psalms talks about how wondrously we are formed in our mother's wombs. That's all supposed to be for God's glory.

And God gave me a boldness. I was kicked out of Sunday school for telling my Sunday school teacher that she got something wrong in the Bible. And she said, what? It says it right here. I said, I know, but my Jesus wouldn't say that. And years later, studying rabbinically, I realized I was right. My childlike faith knew that Jesus would not curse the fig tree.

He didn't curse the fig tree. The fig tree in first century A.D. meant something to the people that were around, and they would know what Jesus was doing when he actually said a curse on the tree. The fig tree represented the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and Jesus was cursing them for not feeding God's people.

You see, that's how easily we get confused about things. So as I was growing up, I knew that I was supposed to give a faithful accounting of why I am joyful, why I believe what I believe, why I walk like I walk. And you mentioned the word religion earlier. I don't like religion, Jason. I just don't. I see all the ways it's been used through the centuries and the millennium.

to tear apart and to confuse and to break down and go to war and make husbands stay in bad marriages because of a certain scripture that says this, when it doesn't say that at all in reality. People have used religion, and we're still doing it today for all kinds of evil. Jesus didn't teach us. His religion, if you want to call it that in quotes,

I have come to love you so you will love others. And he was all about love. And the judgment is left up to him and to his father, the almighty God. And we have taken it upon ourselves to become judge and jury over people. And that's what my new book is about. It's called The Jesus I Know. And it's over 20. I don't know how many interviews are in it, Chrissy. Twenty twenty five, I think.

25 interviews where I interview people from every walk of life that are friends of mine, but completely different from me.

You know, I and I'm fascinated by people. I want to love them like Jesus does, even though they don't maybe believe like I believe or worship like I do. Everyone is a child of God. I do believe that. And if I love them, there's a better chance of them coming into the kingdom of God in a deeper understanding way than if I tell them that they're going to go to hell because they don't believe the way I believe.

I just don't have the right to do that, nor do I want to live my life like that or be around, frankly, people that do. And Jesus felt that way. He was very comfortable around the money changers and the prostitutes. He saw people for exactly what they are, and he loved them anyway. The other day I felt the Lord say so strongly to me, Kathy, when you meet someone, love them.

and then continue to love them until you no longer recognize the person they once were. And I thought, oh, wow, Lord, wow. So what do you say to the young person, or maybe older too, it don't have to be young, who struggles with that because they want acceptance. They want to be liked immediately. They want to be brought into a group who maybe are doing some things that they know in their heart aren't right. Yeah.

It's hard. You have to make a, you've got to take a stand. And that, again, is a muscle that you start to, you realize, like when I was on television and I would, I never sat down thinking, all right, today, today I'm going to tell people about Jesus. No, I, you know, I don't believe in religion. I believe in relationship with the living God. So whenever a situation would come up, I would just naturally say a scripture. And I, or I would just naturally use humor.

And or but I but I would speak the truth. Here's the key. Speak the truth. The Bible says in a spirit of love, be gentle and humble in all things.

And your message will be clear. And you may not say the name Jesus and you may not say, you know, some of the things. But, you know, it's the way you treat people that really represents the gospel. I don't know who it was. I think it might have been St. Augustine or someone like that who said, preach the gospel at all times and when necessary, use words. In other words, love people like Jesus did. And they're going to be drawn to you.

They're going to be drawn to you, even if you don't want to share your faith yet. Say you're in the cafeteria and there's one little kid that nobody sits with. There's one little kid that people make fun of. Be that person. If you're a follower of Jesus, even if you're eight years old, be that person that would go over there and say, Hi, I'm Cassidy. What's your name?

And all of a sudden you're sharing the love of God with that person. He said, do you want to have lunch? Or do you want to this? Be that person who goes out of your way, even just to smile at them. That's being a follower of Jesus. That's what he would do.

It starts that way. Yeah. Do you get the inspiration? And everybody is different. And I think in many ways, every day is a little different. Is it the power of prayer? Is it reading the scriptures? How does it work for you? And I don't know if there's examples from the book. Yeah.

where people gather their inspiration to get buoyed up and recharge their batteries, so to speak. Well, I've written so many books, I've lost track. I think this is my 27th book. So, of course, all along the way, I've talked about my journey in faith and shared that I get up very, very early in the morning and have for decades. And the Bible says, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

and everything else will be added unto you. He's supposed to be the first thing we think about in the morning. And if we take our concerns and our needs and our broken hearts and our dreams to Him, first thing in the day, and give them to Him in prayer and in rejoicing and in praise and thanksgiving, He hears our prayers.

He just does. And it lightens your load and it raises your spirits and allows you to go about your day with a with a with with the sort of an inner knowing that God and I have got this. Jesus and I have got this.

And you're not alone. You're not going to try to pass that test on your own. Just start talking to him and not in fancy prayers. Just say, Jesus, help me or Holy Spirit, lead me or God, I'm scared. I'm scared. Take my hand. Just easy prayers. It starts easy. You're listening to Jason in the house. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Kathy Lee Gifford right after this.

Kudlow on Fox Business is now on the go for podcast fans. Get key interviews with the biggest business newsmakers of the day. The Kudlow podcast will be available on the go after the show every weekday at foxbusinesspodcasts.com or wherever you download your favorite podcasts. You know, when I was young, I grew up in an agnostic household. We didn't do anything religious, but I had religious type of experiences. So

I had religious experiences, but I didn't recognize them as such, being, I think, at a very young age. It was later when I reflected back and thought, oh, okay, that was...

That to me was like, yeah, that was an experience where I could tell the difference between good and bad, that I could get that kind of chill down your spine saying, oh, that was really inspired. That was good. Or something that was so evil that was close by or about to happen where you just, your radar, your antennae go up and you think, oh, this is bad. This is evil. Right.

And I've learned to grasp that and understand that light of Christ, what I practice, the gift of the Holy Ghost. But how do you teach people about that? Because there is a difference. People can tell when there's good and there's bad.

And especially, again, I keep gravitating to young people because they come to this pivotal point in their moment when they go to grade school and high school and they're away from their parents and maybe everything isn't as smooth and there's all this bullying and all this other garbage that's happening. Which they learned at home, by the way, those children.

Well, but how do you share that with others about recognizing good versus evil and then internalizing that to do what you're encouraging with? I think it's just a wonderful message.

Well, again, it does start at home. My parents were two loving God, God loving people who taught us about God. I'm actually we were teasing about Christine sitting here just a little bit earlier. But she and her her nephew and my son grew up together as best best friends. And I knew something good was happening when they were little and they saw something bad. And Robbie asked Cody says Robbie. Robbie says, Cody, why do they people do that stuff?

And I remember that Cody said, hey, Rob, maybe they just don't have they don't have parents that love them. Or, you know, that's what that was his reaction was. First of all, we raise our children to understand that we love them.

And they're made in the image of God. It's got to start there or else if you lose the child getting that kind of a message by the time they're six, it's that much harder to get through all the messages the world has for our children. And if it was difficult for me 68 years ago when I was born.

Imagine children today with all the influences that are so negative and all the government mandates that are put on schools now and things that it's, I don't, you have to teach them at home so that they will have the, they will put on the full armor, the full armor of Jesus and go into not physical battle, spiritual battle. And love is the greatest asset they're going to have.

And it is not easy to stand up, but you can do it by the power of the Holy Spirit. We can't do anything the Bible says on our own. But it also says in Philippians 4, 13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I believe that. And my life is a testimony to that. I can't even believe the life I've lived so far.

I was a little, little scrawny kid from Bowie, Maryland, half Jewish, half a Christian who, you know, had a little squeaky singing voice and a big attitude. And I never would have dreamed that God would take me on this path.

on this journey he has. And when people were putting me down, when I was attempting to go into the, I moved to California when I was 20 to pursue my career in the industry, in the entertainment industry, I got most of the problems that I had came from so-called people of faith putting me down and judging me. You can't call yourself a Christian and be in show business, right?

And I used to say, well, this is where God's called me. I can't say no to God. I know God's going to use me here. My mission field is going to be the world. My mission field is going to be at NBC, ABC, CBS. And I'm supposed to go there and love people. And when they want to know why I love them, I'm supposed to tell them because Jesus does. Go back there for a little bit for a second. So you go out to the West and

That's going to be a different world. You're away from your parents. What was the first kind of big break that you got that said, oh, wow, this is moving up the food chain and the ladder? What happened there? Yes, I was about ready to give up. I'd given myself one year. And in the last week of the first year where I was going to go home, I got five commercials in one week. And I was able to do three.

So I was able to stay a little bit longer and still feed myself and keep my dingy little apartment. And right after that, pretty much, I got a call to go on an interview. And it was for a game show. And I went and they said, prepare three songs, please. And I showed up for the interview. There was nobody there but me. I said, oh, no, I'm in the wrong place. Lady comes out. She goes, Miss Epstein. And I said, yes. She said, they're ready for you. And I said, well, where is everybody? She goes, no, it's just you.

And I went, oh, and a couple of weeks earlier, I had been at an interview for a children's show and I thought I had nailed it. I thought, finally, I'm going to get something. And I didn't get it.

And I remember being so discouraged. And I said, if I can't even get a little kids show, I'm in the wrong business. So anyway, I go into this audition. I sing. And I noticed there's always about 20 people lined up just to watch you. It's very intimidating. And I look over and I see this face. And I go, oh, that's the man who was the writer of the children's show. He's the one that kept smiling at me when I was interviewing and auditioning.

And he kept smiling during this one. And at the end of the audition, Ralph Edwards comes over to me, takes my hand and says, welcome to Name That Tune.

And you're our la-la lady. And it turns out that the writer had thought that I was wonderfully talented and gifted, but just too sophisticated for his show. He says, I'm going to remember this kid. And a few weeks later, my big break was the la-la lady in 1977 on Name That Tune. And I've never been out of work one day since. So from Name That Tune, where did you go from there? To a sitcom down in Nashville where I live now called Hee Haw Honeys.

I went from Rags to Richeson. I remember naming that tune, but I don't remember Hee Haw Honeys. Hee Haw Honeys was a spinoff of Hee Haw.

And originally it was a pilot with three unknown girls. I was one of them. They ended up, it didn't test well in that form, but they kept me. And then they put some of the hee-haw people around me. So I went from learning 200 songs in five days to be the la-la lady and making about $11,000 for the entire year to going to Nashville and shooting an entire year's worth of sitcoms

For $10,000 an episode, I'm going, oh, my gosh, I'm in the money. Well, yeah, you were compared to where you were in 1978. Yeah, good for you. You know, not everything was, you know, it was roses after that. But but I was I was getting my I was green when I started, you know, all plants pretty much are.

You don't bloom immediately. And I was growing and God was honoring and blessing me. And I was walking, really walking with the Lord then. And I've had my moments and my times in my life where I've been so discouraged and fallen into such a despair that I have gotten off my moral track and just said, Lord, I'm not going to do it your way anymore. It isn't working out, Lord.

And I was always drawn back because he loves me. Always drawn back. And God is merciful at the end of every day. He's merciful. And at the beginning of every morning, guess what? His mercies are fresh.

You have done so much in television. I mean, my wife, Julie, and my sister-in-law, Laura Cundall, when they figured out that I was going to be talking to you, oh my gosh, did they get so giddy. I mean, like little girl giddy. Like they could be like, oh my gosh, she was such a big part of my life.

So, um, you have touched a lot of lives along the way in a very positive way. Um, and you've accomplished a lot, but what, like at this point, what, what motivates you? What makes you say, Oh, Oh, okay. I got to get up out of bed. Cause we don't, we need to do this, that, and other what, what inspires you to get out there and do much more? Because I think a lot of people could say, eh, you know, I did that. I'm going to hang out on a beach. Yeah. Right. Well, first of all, it's because of people like the, your wife and your, did you say it was your sister?

Sister-in-law. Sister-in-law, yeah. Because when I hear stories like that, I mean, it goes back to the Lord telling me, I will change this world because of you, if you let me. And I don't mean I'm the only one doing it, but all of us as believers who truly trust Him, we have a world to change. That's what gets me up in the morning when I don't want to.

That's what gets me on a plane when I don't want to. Ultimately, I'll moan about it. Forgive me for using the B word, but it does mean female dog. Anyway, I will do that. And until the Lord will convict me and say, Kathy, nobody in the Bible ever, ever retired.

Everybody that was called of God in the Bible died doing what they were called to do, except for Elijah was taken up in a chariot and Enoch. We don't know what happened to him. Everybody else just died doing what they're supposed to do and telling the world that God loves them.

So this book and this new series on Fox Nation, I'm so grateful for the opportunity, is an example of this. The book I wrote, it came out last December. My books do well, and I'm grateful for that. It's something I can do without having to be on television and putting on Spanx and high heels like I did for all those years. And it can go out into the world and touch and change people.

But I do have a natural gift for television. And so and I'm just completely comfortable in that medium. And I always have been since the first time I sat on on Willard Scott's lap when I was eight years old. First time I was on television because I'd raised money for a charity. Then on WTTV Channel 5 in Washington, D.C. And I just sat right down there and talked to him about having the circus that I had. Yeah.

No hesitation. No. Just like at home, right? Just like, yeah. And just, you know, because I believe that whatever we love, love doing when we're a child is what God put in us in our mother's wombs to love. And it's somehow supposed to be part of what we become today.

That's why I don't like it when people force, you've got to be a doctor because your father was. You've got to go into law because that's where you're going to make a lot of money. I want you to be this. No, I don't believe we're supposed to dream our children's dreams. We're supposed to help them come true once they enunciate what those dreams are or articulate to us what it is. But no, we're supposed to get our mitts off our kids in that way and let them become...

the child and the person God always fully intended them to be. Now, you have two kids, right? You had two marriages recently. No, I did, meaning I did. No, no, no. Not you, but your kids, right?

I'd be happy with another one, frankly, but no, no. My daughter got married. It's two years ago now during COVID. Yes. Married a wonderful guy. She'd known since she was 11. Dear family, friends, son. They got married. Her husband's name is Ben. And my son got married four months later to a beautiful girl that he met in college. And they are now expecting their first child in June. So it's very exciting. Yeah. They, they both waited. Kids get married. That's,

That is a life moment. That is really a life moment. We have three kids, two of which have gotten married. Not to each other, by the way. Yes, that would be a problem. Yeah, it would be a problem. But that moment is just... Yeah, and they say the only thing greater is when that first grandchild comes along. And I'm looking forward to it. My children don't know what it's going to be. They don't want to know. They just know they're going to love it.

and I'm gonna be Bubby. And that's the Yiddish word for grandma. It comes from the word bubba. - Okay, so I have some grandkids. I've got four grandkids. - And what do they call you?

Well, I didn't guess. I didn't say, I'm just going to let it come out naturally and just see where they gravitate to. And I am Papa. Yeah. Which just makes me... It's sweet. It's dear. Oh my gosh, I'm so... Yeah, my kids called my father Papa, so it's close. Yes. But I think Bubby is easy for them. Bub, bub, bub, bub, bub. They do that anyway. So it means, Bubbala in Yiddish means my darling. Yes.

And so Boobie's just short for my darling. And I'm looking forward to it. It's a new season in my life. I've moved from California.

Connecticut, I still have my home there, but I've moved to Tennessee. It's a culture of kindness there. I needed it. I've been a widow almost seven years now. There are people there that have embraced me. Not that there aren't wonderful people up here in the Northeast, because they are. There are many of them. But the culture has changed so, so precipitously that I just, I can hardly bear to be here anymore. It's a culture of chaos.

And then I moved down to Tennessee where it's a culture of kindness. And that doesn't mean there are bad people in Tennessee. But you know what I'm saying? It's the culture. And I am thriving under it. I'm busier than I've ever been. This new series streaming on Fox Nation now is five of the interviews of people that I talk to for the newest book, The Jesus I Know. And it's Justin Bieber's mother.

It's a group called two guys named Louis York, who are African-American guys who had everything in the music industry. Grammy Award nominations and just working with everybody from Michael Jackson to Madonna to Gaga and all that. They both gave it up to go to Tennessee, get back to their roots with God and start using their music for his glory. And they're called Louis York. They're two of my dearest friends. That's Christian Chenoweth.

The magnificent Broadway and movie star. She's amazing. Oh, and she loves Jesus like crazy. Let's see, Jimmy Wayne, incredible country star who has maybe the saddest growing up story of childhood abuse and just heartbreak. And the fact that he is this triumphant, forgiving human being after everything he went through is an amazing story. In fact, my son and I and Roma Downey are trying to bring his book,

Walk to Beautiful, it's called, to a big screen as a film because it's an amazing story. And the other one is Chrissy, help me. Jimmy Wayne, Louis York, Kristen Chenoweth.

And Janice Dean. I'm sitting here in Fox Studios right now. And Janice, who's, you know, she's like a David and Goliath story going on in her life now. And so, yeah, and then there's 20 more in the book. And Fox Nation had been asking me for several years, Kathy, what can we do together? We'd like you to do something for us. And I said, well, I don't talk politics. I really don't. Years ago, Billy Graham said to me, Kathy, I do regret the times that I talked politics.

He said, I regret it. He says, there's not that much I regret, thank the Lord. But he said, if you want some advice from me, you have a real ministry right where you are. And politics tends to divide people. But telling people that God loves them tends to unite them. He said, I would suggest that you just always tell people how much God loves them. And I've really tried to stick with that.

My husband and I, through this organization we work with here in New York, did sue the state of New York three times, but for children's issues politically. And we won all three of those lawsuits. So I believe in that when there's something that you cannot stand happening, that you feel like it's your righteous anger rises up. You say, uh-uh, no, that is not right. And we can't allow the voiceless to be treated that way.

Then you stand up. But for me, I didn't want to come to Fox News or Fox Nation and do political stuff. It's just not my wheelhouse. It's not my lane. I have strong opinions.

But I don't believe that I don't want anybody to particularly care about them. I have what I truly have is a deep and abiding faith in Jesus and in the scriptural truth. And I want that to be shared. That's what I want to spend the rest of my life doing, sharing that. So we went through a few ideas, what I should do here, this or that. And I said, you know what? Let me just do some of the interviews they say, you know, from my new book. And they were they

They thought, well, whoa, yeah, that would work. And so we did three of them in Nashville. We did two of them here in New York. And it was easy because I do know how to talk to people. And I put on the Spanx again, but I wore ripped jeans like I wear every day in Tennessee. And I'm just continuing on the path. Somebody said, so you didn't retire. I said, I never had an intention of retiring. I said, we refire.

And they said, well, you're reinventing. I go, no, God created me. I wasn't invented and I certainly didn't invent myself. I'm just evolving as a child of God. And that's also what keeps things interesting along the way. You know, I rarely get bored. I get tired, really tired, but I don't get bored for very long.

Well, you've influenced a lot of people and done so in a very, very positive way. And that's good. It's a great message. And why people would want to try to tear that down, it just is beyond me.

Well, the good story is, and I'll let you go, is that after the 30 years of knocking me terribly, I had an encounter with Howard Stern. You can read it in a different book of mine. I think it's called It's Never Too Late, where he actually called me and apologized to me.

and fell apart on the, on, and I said, you know what? Don't you ask me to forgive him? And I said, I'm so glad you're asking Howard, but I got to tell you, I forgave you 30 years ago and I've been praying for you ever since. He goes, what? Yep. Yep. So, you know, you may wait for a long time to get answered to your prayers, but God is the God of the how and when, and he will answer our prayers. You're listening to Jason in the house. We'll be back with more right after this.

Hey, I've got to ask you a few rapid questions, though. Oh, that's right. Okay. I'm ready. Nobody gets out of the Jason in the House podcast without a few rapid questions. Okay. But we'll be fast. Oh, I don't care. Because I know you've got to go, too. No, I don't. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Go ahead. All right. And thanks for doing this. Sure. First concert you attended.

Bread. Really? Yes. That's fun. What was your high school mascot? A bulldog. You were the bulldog. That's good. First celebrity crush when you were a little girl. Kurt Russell. Still have it. Okay. Favorite vegetable? Spinach. Well, that's healthy. Mm-hmm.

That's good. I will tell you that half the people I talk to can't name a vegetable, so that's good. Well, that's why I take something called Balance of Nature. It'll change your life. You get nine servings of vegetables and fruits you would not otherwise get. You are one of the most recognizable people in the country. I mean, you just are. You've been out in people's living rooms. Right. Yes. Yes.

Every once in a while, my guess is somebody comes up to you and thinks you're somebody else. Who is that somebody else that they might say, they know you, but they get it wrong. Does that ever happen? No, not very often because what really gives me away is my voice.

Yeah, it's distinctive. Even during COVID, when everybody's masked up, I'd be in the grocery store or something. Is that you, Kathy Lee? I said, no, it's Kelly Ripa. Who do you think it is? All right, that's pretty funny. I just get people laughing. Favorite pet or pets growing up? Do you do pets? Oh, I have...

Two dogs now. Sadly, I've buried too many of them through the years. One of the happy things for me about coming home to stay at my home in Connecticut is I miss my dogs so much. I came through the door yesterday. I've got a little one named Bambino and a big one named Lola. And little Bambino must have run around for, you know,

20 minutes, just so ho-soppy. Then completely forgot I was home and left the room. But was excited when you showed up. That's good. Most embarrassing moment? Oh, it has to be. I have two of them. It has to be when I, on the air, asked different people how somebody it was that was there. Mostly Martin Short was

He had a wife named Nancy, and it was one of the most beautiful marriages I'd ever seen in show business. It was almost like Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, you know, kind of love. Solid, solid marriage. And I said, how do you guys keep it fresh? And he didn't say anything. And afterwards, we went off the air. And he said, I love Marty Short. And he took me aside and said, Kathy, I didn't say anything on the air. I'm so sorry. You obviously didn't know Nancy died last year of cancer.

And I went, oh, my God, Marty, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I did not know that because he was a very private guy. Very few people know anything about Marty Schwartz personal life. You know, yeah, it's not like the Kardashians guy. Oh, he's so talented. He's a lovely guy. And I did the same thing with James Taylor. He was sitting there with Sting one day. And I said to James, how's your brother doing? He goes, he died. And I'm going, oh, my gosh, I'm going to stop asking people anything like that.

I'm just going to stop because you just want to die because they're dead. Oh, my gosh. All right. That is embarrassing. That that tops the list. I'll grant it. And it's not as if it's just the two of you sitting there. All right. Unique talent nobody knows about something you do that, you know, I can juggle. Most people don't know that. You know, I certainly cannot juggle. Chrissy, do I have a unique gift gift?

that nobody knows of. Pretty much everybody knows everything about you at this point. She knows so well because she and I have been friends for 32 years working together. She said, I can suck in my, just one nostril, my left one.

And I'm a pretty doggone good hula hooper. She's right about that. Although I have a little hernia right now, so I don't think I can. Gotta have that baby taken out. And nostril. That's pretty good. I did not know that. Okay, the big question that we always ask. Pineapple on pizza, yes or no? No. No, but that's my son's favorite.

That's called a Hawaiian pizza, right? Yeah. A wet fruit on pizza is just wrong. So the judges really like your answers. Isn't a tomato considered a fruit to some? Yeah, I guess it is. Yeah. That's the way I like my fruit on it. Ketchup's also a fruit for some, too. But I...

I think, yeah, putting pineapple, put it in a bowl. It's good. I like pineapple by itself. I like it that way too. Or an upside down cake, you know, although I don't eat much sweets. But yeah, no, everything has its rightful place. But I don't try to determine that for other people. Yeah. So what is the, what's the other thing for Kathie Lee? Like when you,

you, when I say other thing, like I like wildlife photography. If I want to get out, clear my brain, forget about the world. I like doing wildlife photography, but what do you do to kind of just relax, clear the brain, just,

What do you do? I don't know that I ever like to clear the brain. I like to, I love to go to Israel and study. That fulfills me the absolute most, but with COVID we couldn't go. It's been three years since I was able to go to Israel. I'm a filmmaker now and I'm a director, so I'm always looking for stories.

I'm a songwriter. I've written several thousand songs, Broadway musicals, country songs, everything. Jingles for, I love writing. I love writing. I don't particularly love writing academic type books. Those are not fun. But I would say for fun, my favorite thing is to go out and go antiquing. Had I never gone into show business, I would have become an interior designer. I love, love, love that. So that's probably my habit. Yeah.

Yeah, that's my hat. All right. So last question. Last question. Best advice you ever got? Oh, I think it was from my father who said, honey, find something you love to do and then figure out a way to get paid for it. Because where your bliss is, it will be your joy. And I love to say my joy is non-negotiable. Well, good.

you've been so generous with this time. I wish I was able to do this with you in person. Yeah, I was hoping you'd be here. But you've touched a lot of lives in a very positive way and excited for the Jesus I Know series on Fox Nation. You also have the book under the same name. Yep. And a new book and a new film coming out in August called The Way and the God of the Way. So lots to look forward to.

Oh, that's great. Thank you so much for joining us. Really, truly do appreciate it. And all the best to you. Thank you again. Thank you. God bless you, Jason. Lovely to meet you. Bye-bye. That was just wonderful. What a great, uplifting, positive, inspirational message from somebody who could choose to go anywhere, do anything.

to just continue to be a good person and want to be a better person and inspire others. I cannot thank Kathie Lee Gifford enough. And I hope you have a chance to check out the Fox Nation special. It's a series, really. The Jesus I Know with Kathie Lee Gifford. I think it's going to do exceptionally well.

and the generosity of her time for joining us on the Jason in the House podcast. I really do appreciate it. I hope you can rate it. I hope you subscribe to it. We're going to have some other fascinating interviews along the way, and you can go to foxnewspodcast.com to check out some of my colleagues and their podcasts. But stay with us. Again, rate it. Check those stars. And we'll be back with more next week. I'm Jason Chaffetz. This has been Jason in the House.

From the Fox News Podcast Network, subscribe and listen to the Trey Gowdy Podcast. Former federal prosecutor and four-term U.S. Congressman from South Carolina brings you a one-of-a-kind podcast. Subscribe and listen now by going to foxnewspodcast.com.