John Ratcliffe's Life Of Service To Others
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Welcome to the Jason in the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and thanks for joining us. I think you're really going to enjoy this. This is one of the more important, more consequential people who has served in our government, and I predict will be serving again at the highest level. His name is John Ratcliffe. He was the former congressman from the Dallas, Texas area. He went on to become the director of national intelligence for President Trump.

uh, Trump. Um, and I was fortunate in Congress to get to know him really, really well because we were on the judiciary committee together, but we, um, kind of ran in a circle, if you will, where we had dinner meetings,

most nights that I was in Washington, D.C. between myself and Trey Gowdy, Tim Scott, John Radcliffe, and some others, we broke bread and had meals on a very regular basis and got to know him and his wife. And I think you're going to be interested. I mean, on the one hand, you're like, wow, okay, this is just a picture-perfect trajectory to become

Somebody who can be trusted with the most sensitive information, but also have the presence of mind to make the decision about the consequences of the decisions that a president has to make and I don't know. He's just a simply wonderful guys him and his wife Michelle just some of the nicest people on the planet.

But I think you're going to be interested on how he got to that position and what he did. And I look forward to having that discussion with him. And we're going to highlight a couple things in the news and then, you know, highlight the stupid because there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. But let's start with a few things in the news. All right. A couple of things that I really think are important, particularly with John Ratcliffe coming on today. A lot of chatter. If you kind of

get past the top, kind of peel back the sensational of some of the news that's out there. Artificial intelligence is a very scary thing. It can be good. It can be very helpful. But out of control, it can be out of control. And when you have the likes of an Elon Musk who

I saw a clip of him where he said he had talked to almost a whole bunch of members of Congress on both sides of the aisle. He had spoken to all 50 governors. He had visited with presidents in the past, plural.

And he said, you know, most people don't get it. They don't understand it. And it's true. We're probably operating at a different level in terms of knowledge base than an Elon Musk and many of the other tech leaders out there. This highlights a problem and why I think it's newsworthy. I do think it is something we have to deal with. One of the biggest problems in Congress and the White House is.

And the public at large is understanding the language that is there. Now, I supported when I was in Congress something called the Office of Technology Assessment. It was a bipartisan attempt to say, look, you have nerds come testify before Congress. We don't even know what to ask them because you don't even know the language.

And so you have to be able to understand it if you're going to put some guardrails on it. Not that everything has to be regulated, but when you start to talk about the world and how it's changing with artificial intelligence, it gets pretty scary. And we better do something now because putting that genie back in the bottle, very difficult thing to do. Second thing I wanted to highlight in the news is this...

I actually for Barack Obama, President Obama, you know, as a former president, you get to have a presidential library and with a presidential library, you go out and raise a lot of money, mostly private money. There is some public money mixed into that. And so he has plans in the South Chicago area to put in a 19 acre $500 million facility.

Now here's the hard part, and this is where I feel for the former president. There was an article that came out in the Washington Post. The headline is, Chicago neighbors say Obama Center is raising rents, forcing them out. And it basically dove in and said that the median home prices have doubled since the center was first unveiled, and that consequently rents have gone way up.

And so the argument and what President Obama is having to deal with there in Chicago is, do you not do the center? Do you let them languish in poverty? Do you, you know, to try to keep the rents so low? Or do you try to build up a neighborhood by creating an iconic place that will attract? I don't know how many visitors are going to come there. People that will spend money, other businesses that will pop up.

It seems to me that the president's heart, President Obama, is trying to do the right thing. And I can only imagine the frustration that he has because now they're saying, no, this is causing problems because now everything's more expensive. And I tend to be one that thinks, you know what? You got to raise all ships. And now you do it through money.

economic incentives you do it through people getting jobs and lifting them up imagine all the jobs that are going to be created by spending 500 million dollars and then having a business in perpetuity i'll be at a library where thousands upon thousands of people probably on a daily basis are going to come travel to and spend money that's going to create all kinds of opportunity people can get jobs they get better jobs but

It's interesting how the president is looking at this and how it gets spun up and how there's this cycle of poverty. You've got to change it. You've got to break it. You've got to move it in the right direction if you're going to improve it. All right, now it's time to bring on the stupid because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. All right, got to look now to the Columbia Law students. Some of them are flipping out because Justice Kavanaugh,

came and was going to speak there. And there were nine students in particular. But the National Lawyers Guild claimed that Columbia Law School platformed the Federalist Society and Kavanaugh, thereby normalizing, quote, white supremacist, patriarchal violence in the law, legal education, and the everyday fabric of U.S. society. That's the quote.

How do you get so triggered by the presence of a Senate confirmed justice of the Supreme Court?

That's what you're supposed to be doing in law school, understanding both arguments. You may not agree with him, but have the deference and have the politeness and have the maturity to actually listen to both sides of an argument. Justice Kavanaugh doesn't deserve that kind of stuff. And don't ever tell me again that Columbia Law School is one of the top law schools in the country.

Bologna. Some of the Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, they are off the mantle as far as I'm concerned. Off the books because you know what? I wouldn't hire people from those law schools. The education that's coming out, what they're being taught in terms of the wokeness is just disgusting to me. But that's my take on it. I think that qualifies for part of the stupid. And then I want to move to the next one.

The first lady, Jill Biden, you may have seen this, LSU goes and beats Iowa for the national championship. Jill Biden was there. And so this is her quote. It was so exciting, wasn't it? She said this on ESPN. It was such a great game. I'm old enough to remember when we got Title IX. We fought so hard, right? We fought so hard. And look at where women's sports have come today. She then went on.

and invited not only LSU to come to the White House, but also to have Iowa come to the White House. Well, that did not go over well. And you know what? I think it was very indicative of how the Bidens think. Everybody wins. Nobody's a loser. Everybody has... Look, one of the most important things you get out of sports is the learning how to win and learning how to lose. And if you win...

This whole idea of meritocracy, you know, that merit has its place in this world, that you achieve the highest things, you get certain rewards, like going to the White House, meeting the president, that's a good high thing. It doesn't mean, oh, everybody come along for the ride. Everybody gets a participation trophy. It's so wrong.

But I will highlight this is the smartest person in the room evidently and responding to that is the Iowa coach. And she said, look, this is LSU's moment. I'm paraphrasing. This is LSU's moment. Let them go to the White House. We don't we lost the game. LSU should be there, not us.

If you really want to do something, have the Bidens come visit us in Iowa. Come show them the stadium. Come show them that part of the world. Now that was a great answer. You want to come up with a smart answer and something that actually is meaningful? That was a really good way to do it. And so hats off to the coach there at Iowa.

All right, time to move on and introduce our guests because John Ratcliffe has become a very good friend. It's one of those pleasures when you serve in Congress, you get to meet some people and spend a lot of time with people. And the next thing you know, you're leaving Congress, but you still continue on to be friends. And this is one of them, John Ratcliffe, just an amazing human. But let's dial up John and talk to him about his life and his career.

Hello? John Ratcliffe. Hey, Jason Chaffetz. Jason, how are you? Thanks so much for letting me catch you. I do appreciate it. Yeah, you bet. Always a pleasure to visit with you. No, listen, I always, look, I had such, so much fun serving with you in Congress. You know, it's getting to be a couple years now. And then, you know, next thing I know, you're like running the world as the Director of National Intelligence. So, you know. Yeah.

I don't know what was going on with those dinners, but, you know, between you and Pompeo and the whole bunch of people, it was, that's pretty amazing. Well, you're very kind. You played a big part, as did a lot of my friends that we served with in Congress. You and Trey Gowdy, our dinners and

You know, the things that we talked about and the things that we did, I think, you know, for all of us, it led to the future opportunities that we've all been that we've been blessed with. But, yeah, you know, you know, I never envisioned myself in Congress, much less, you know, as the head of the intelligence community in the president's cabinet. So I'm as surprised as anyone, Jason. Yeah. Well, listen, I want to go back because.

You, um, let's, let's go back to the way back. I want to go back to little John or Johnny Radcliffe, whatever they call you, uh, when you were growing up, did you, you were born in Texas? Johnny. So little, little Johnny, uh, tell us, you know, kind of where were you growing up? What were you doing? Brothers, sisters? What was, what was going on? Where were you born? Yeah. You know, I'm very fortunate. Um,

you know, to have had that sort of idyllic, traditional family experience. I mean, you know, I had two, you know, fantastic parents. My dad, unfortunately, you know, passed away in

2005 at age 71, which is way too early. My mom will be 88 this November. My parents were great. They had six kids. I was the youngest of six kids. I grew up in Illinois. I was born and raised in Illinois. I've been in Texas ever since I went to undergrad at the University of Notre Dame, but ended up at law school down at SMU. That's how I

became a Texan. And so, um, you know, I've been there obviously the vast majority of my life and Texas is home, but, uh, now grew up in Illinois and just had, you know, again, um, very close with all of my brothers and sisters. I mean, uh, so this weekend will be, you know, uh, Easter weekend. And I think I'll have, uh,

Two of my sisters and two of my brothers. So I think five of the six of us will be with my mom for Easter. I think I have one sister that won't make it this trip. But anyway, obviously very close family that's always been supportive and, you know, a big part of

you know, who I became as a person and really the opportunities that I've had, you know, throughout my life. And so just I've been very fortunate on the, you know, on the family front. Now, were you arguing around the kitchen table here? Because, you know, you actually...

You're very polite, but you do know how to make an argument. And my guess is if you're the youngest of six, maybe you have to sit there and listen to all the arguments and then say, all right, now I get to weigh in and get the benefit of having heard all the rambunctious yes, no's, this, that, and the other. Is that where that skill set came from? I don't think so. I don't think I remember being that wise or judicious. It wasn't my temperament as a kid. There was a lot of fighting. You're right.

But it was funny. You know, one of the things my dad said when I was little that struck with me and he would say, you know, to as he talked about his kids or whatever, he would say, you know, John thinks like a lawyer. Johnny thinks like a lawyer. And I never knew really what that meant. But it sort of stuck in my mind that maybe I should be a lawyer. And I sort of, you know,

I always wanted to be a professional baseball player or football player or those types of things. But in the back of my mind, that always stuck with me. Ultimately,

As I sort of got older, that's where I ended up in obviously going to law school. And that's really where I sort of honed that skill. Yeah, but why law school? Why law school? Come on. Like our son went to law school. Julie and I, our sons were proud of him, what he did. But it really took his buddy getting him into debate. And once he was in debate, he like thrived. He loved it. He just dove.

dove right into it and he loved policy he you know you have to argue both sides and then it really kind of lit a fire under him i don't know what he'd be doing if if not for that encouragement to go into debate what was that moment for you when they he said yeah dad thinks i look you know i i think like an attorney but hey this is actually pretty exciting

Yeah, I think he planted the seed, but then, you know, sort of as I grew up and, you know, I went through school and I was always, you know, I was fortunate. I just did well in school and, you know, always sort of a voracious reader and just sort of, you know, focused on things like, you know,

law, the thing, you know, my mind went to, you know, concepts of fairness and, you know, and even politics, you know, and being, you know, reading the Constitution. And, you know, my favorite class in high school was government. And so it just sort of, it seemed to make sense. And the thing that made them, you know, like I said, I almost ruled everything else out and really thought, you

I could picture myself arguing cases before the Supreme Court and I thought that was a noble thing to do to

you know, um, support and defend, you know, uh, that concept, um, uh, people and laws and, um, and, you know, I'm, I'm fortunate in one of those people that it sort of played out the way I thought about it as a kid, you know, and, um, you know, cause obviously, as you know, my, my career took me, took me there and, you know, and became a federal prosecutor and U S attorney and,

you know, represented the United States long before I got to Congress. And, and, and, uh, you know, um, uh, and I did hone that skill over the years and just, uh, really became good at taking either side of an argument and, um, you know, uh, and just enjoyed the, the, you know, the, the process of doing that. Yeah. But let's be honest, your, your high school government teacher, did they really know what government was about now that you've been in the government? Yeah.

You know, and I see that. Go ahead. So it's funny, though, I will say this. I have this little badge in my desk. In fact, while I'm talking to you, I can pull it out. When I graduated high school, my high school graduation, my teacher said,

He handed me an envelope, and inside that envelope was a little button that he had made, and it says, and I'm holding it, it says, John Racklin for Congress. So he, you know, and I thought, what the heck is this? But he, yeah, he obviously thought that I had a, you know, a

set of abilities that might lead me to that. And, you know, maybe he's the one that planted the seed that, you know, that took me to where you and I became friends. But no, I was actually fortunate. You know, Jason, both of my parents were teachers.

So, you know, I have such great respect for teachers and education, which which makes it, you know, makes it hard to see a lot of what's happening today with, you know, teachers in the educational system and the things that have happened and, you know, the things that I that I see happening. So you go to you're going to high school and now it comes to decision. Hey, yeah, going to college. Why Notre Dame? And what did you what did you study there?

Yeah, so I grew up in Illinois and I'm Catholic and so, you know,

you know, a lot of your listeners who are, you know, of our generation, TV wasn't quite the same back in the day. I mean, the big thing was what did Notre Dame football do on Saturday? I grew up with listening to Notre Dame football and, you know, everyone in Illinois. That was one of the things that

that you, that you saw. So I just always heard such great things about the school and, you know, never knew if I could get in there or not, but, but I applied and was fortunate to be accepted. And, and,

And so, you know, it was a great experience for me. But that's how I ended up how I ended up there. And what'd you study? Government and international studies. So, you know, again, that again, two two worthless degrees. Yeah. If you if you don't actually go to government, but you actually did. So that's good. Now, I got to ask you much of.

I got to ask you, though, because you and I have gotten to know and bump into and spend some time break bread with Lou Holtz along the way. So with him being the Notre Dame coach, that had to be a little surreal, right? I mean, that guy is a national treasure.

Oh, one of the great, great human beings. And, you know, I was one of the things that, you know, it's been rewarding is I made the recommendation to former President Trump to award Coach Holtz the Presidential Medal of Freedom because he's a great American. And and he was he did receive that honor. And so it's great to be a part of that. But it's funny because.

You know, I never dreamed that I would even know Lou Holtz. And and now we have become, you know, because of the, you know, the opportunities that I had in Congress and then later in the administration, you know, he and I have become have become good friends, which is which is surreal because he really is a great person.

human being. And actually, he and I had this discussion. He actually, in many ways, had an influence on my life as well. One of the things that sort of directed me, Jason, was as I look back, I got into wanting to have a big life and I got into reading different people like

Tony Robbins and, um, uh, but even Lou Holt and one of the things that Lou holds, you know, as a, as a motivational speaker, you know, he talked about, uh, you know, having a list of, you know, 97 things that he wanted to accomplish in his life, you know, things like land on an aircraft carrier and, you know, I mean, just the things that are, seem so far fetched. And, um,

Long before I knew him, that was one of the things that I adopted, putting together a list. Every year, I still do that. He and I talk about that. It's funny how life works out, but he had an influence on me long before I ever had the chance to know him. Yeah.

Yeah. So you you you go to Notre Dame, you graduate, then you say, oh, yeah, law school. That's the thing for me. So you apply, you go to SMU and this university in Dallas. Yep. Yep. And you've pretty much been in Dallas ever since. Right.

Yeah, Texas is home. I just got to tell you, from the minute that I got here, I really wanted to see a different part of the country. And I had been accepted in different schools, UCLA, out in California, and, you know,

I had applied to different places around the country, but I visited Texas, just really fell in love. And I can't ever imagine living any place else. I mean, obviously I spend time in Washington, DC, but Texas, I think will always be home for us. And my family's here and my kids are native Texans. And it's just been now having had the opportunity to represent the people of Texas in Congress.

Yeah, Texas is just, you know, just a fantastic place. But somehow, some way along the way, you explain to me the relationship you have with John Ashcroft, the former Attorney General, right? Former Senator, former governor, too. He did all of the above, I think. All of the above. Why was he spending time with you?

Yeah. So, you know, again, funny how, uh, you know, life works out. Um, I didn't know, you know, John Ashcroft, but, um, you know, one of the events in my life, Jason, that I look back and how, how things changed for me professionally, you know, as a lawyer for a number of years, but, um,

After 9-11, and we all remember where we were and whatever, but I was a successful practicing lawyer. I was a partner in a law firm in downtown Dallas in the skyscraper that looked a lot like the buildings that were hitting in New York City. And I just remember at that point in time thinking, wow.

you know, I've had great financial success and I'm doing well, but I felt a tinge of guilt. I never served in the military. And, you know, it's just sort of a strange, you know, I thought, well, how can I serve at the age that I am and what can I do? And, you know, in the aftermath of 9-11, the Department of Justice created a terrorism prosecution, you know, unit and focused on the prevention of terrorism as a priority of the Department of Justice. And

And I thought, oh, this might be crazy, but I'm going to go try and do that. And I was fortunate enough to be appointed to that position as the chief of anti-terrorism for the federal district where I lived. And then that gave me the opportunity to become the United States attorney. And, of course, the attorney general at that time was John Ashcroft. And so he – as time went by, when he left –

you know, and started a law firm at the end of the Bush administration. He called me up and said, hey, I'd love to practice law with you and have you head my Dallas office. And so, you know, again, we became friends and he was a mentor and really was the person that encouraged me to run for Congress. But, you know, so fortunate. And John Ashcroft, I still talk to

General Ashcroft, as I call him, you know, probably every week or two, get his advice. We talk about things that are happening in the world and in our families. And it's just become, you know, an important part of my life. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be right back.

Jason in the House, the Jason Chaffetz podcast. Dive deeper than the headlines and the party lines as I take on American life, politics and entertainment. Subscribe now on FoxNewsPodcast.com or wherever you download podcasts. So let's go back there for a second. You're practicing law. What kind of law were you practicing? Because I would suspect a number of people put in for that. But why do you think

they appointed you as opposed to everybody else it's not like your dad made exorbitant campaign contributions and you bought your way in so

How did this all happen? Jason, it was, it was sort of crazy because I mean, you know, I was, I was, you know, uh, people thought I was, you know, a lot of people thought, what is deal? He's lost his mind. I mean, you know, I was, uh, making, uh, multiples of what I would make as a, as a, you know, probably a GS 15, um, you know, assistant, you know, United States attorney and terrorism prosecutor and,

And I think I got it in part because I –

There was probably a level of surprise that someone with my experience and I'd been a practicing lawyer for, gosh, 12 years at that point in time. And like I said, I was a partner in a law firm and had done just sort of what's a general civil practice. I was a litigator, a very successful courtroom lawyer. And I think I had a set of skills that would have applied. And so, like I said, yeah.

Hard to always understand how the things that happen in our lives do, but I was fortunate that I was selected to do that. Again, it really changed the trajectory where

I became less focused on financial success and more involved with public service and really enjoyed it. And obviously, it led to the kinds of things that we've already mentioned where you and I have become friends. So what was the conversation like where you woke up one morning and said, you know, honey, I think I should run for Congress? How did that go down?

You know, because of the work that I was doing for the government, I was making way less money than I had in private practice, but it was so much more rewarding. I mean, there's something to be... One of the great things about being a federal prosecutor was...

you know, standing up in a courtroom and saying, "Your Honor, I'm, you know, John Ratcliffe. I'm here representing the United States of America."

And I know I always felt like I was the good guy. I was the guy in the white hat and that I was helping our country by prosecuting really bad people. And I know that not everyone sees federal prosecutors that way. And I hate what's happening recently. And, you know, some of the things that are, you know, you and I, you know, even in Congress dealt with in terms of people that have abused the

sort of the sanctity of our system of American jurisprudence and made it political. But when I was doing it, it really gave me a sense of satisfaction and purpose. And I just, you know, again, just felt like, well, maybe I could take it to the next level and the opportunity to represent, you know, nearly a million people, you know, in a congressional district, you know, at the center of

you know, our great American government. And and so, yeah, you know, you've met my wife, Michelle, and, you know, she probably thought I was crazy and particularly given, as you know, the circumstances in which I ran. But, you know, she was. Yeah, you did. Yeah, really?

You and I did what we're not supposed to do, and that is run against an incumbent Republican. We ate kind of one of our own to get there. But, you know, they're open seats at that point. That's what our Constitution has. And I don't know, maybe I sound a little defensive saying, well, yeah, I mean, so it's not that person's seat in perpetuity. That's not the way the system works. Yeah, well, I mean, we both, you know, we both challenged the...

in a way and presented a vision to the people that we live in those communities. And obviously, they made the choice. You and I, I mean, everyone has a great story

you know most people do in terms of how they got to congress uh you and i often joke about mine because you know you you served with you know my my predecessor you know a wonderful guy named ralph hall but um you know i was not supposed to win that race as you as you know and uh you know again that's that's part of uh you know how i why i feel so blessed and fortunate because i i was uh

You know, didn't really have much of a chance. He was, as you know, a legend in in Texas politics. And and it took a lot of, you know, but that's where strategy comes into play. And and, you know, I definitely had a plan and was fortunate that things things worked out.

And there was another guy who also did something similar and that was Trey Gowdy. Now you must have, did you cringe? What was the, what's the right word when you first met Trey Gowdy? What was the, what's the right way to describe that meeting?

So, as you know, you and Trey at the time were serving with the Congressman Ralph Hall. And but Trey went so far as to endorse and support. Yeah, he did, didn't he? Oh, I totally forgot about that. Yes. He endorsed your opponent. Yeah, that that's awkward. Well, it was because I thought, you know, at the time, you know, you know, from a distance, you know, Trey Gowdy was there.

You know, just leading, you know, leading the charge along with you and others in Congress, you know, against so many of the injustices that were there. But he, of course, had my background as a, you know, as a lawyer and a prosecutor. And and and so I thought so highly of him. So, yeah, you know, the day that.

I heard a robocall from Trey Gowdy talking about how great my opponent was and how people should vote for him. When I later met Trey, I went from, here's a guy I've been idolizing, and yet he campaigned against me. But we laugh about that because, as you know, he's become –

He's one of our closest friends, yours and mine both, and we talk frequently. But it's funny how life works out. Hey, it is the –

His endorsement apparently didn't mean much because I ended up winning the race. Which we'd love to remind Trey of on a regular basis. It is the official viewpoint of the Jason and the House podcast that any opportunity to rip on the integrity and the intentions of Jay Gowdy is full game. And I take every advantage and opportunity to do so.

And I'm losing this fight because he does this more to me than I do to him. So just so we can keep score along the way. And we do that out of love and affection because he really is one of the funniest, wittiest guys to sit there. And on that, you know, we were more junior on the Judiciary Committee because you two guys were sitting together and then we had a person, Dan Marino, in between us. And then I was there and...

I can't believe we didn't get in a little bit more trouble there because some of the laughs we had along the way were, were pretty funny and, uh, you know, live microphones and whatnot, but yeah, it was a good time. We had a good, we did, we had good times, but we did good work, Jason. I look back and think about, you know, uh, you know, all the things that, uh,

between the last that were serious, where I really felt like we moved the needle in a lot of respects. Obviously, we're still fighting a lot of the same issues today, but the things that we were able to highlight and argue about in a very public way and some of the witnesses that we were challenging and some of the things that we were doing, of course, you were chairman of oversight,

you know and and had that you know uh you know that platform as well but uh you know um i think you know we did we had good time but we did important work you made the transition though because look you had the unique uh opportunity in background having been a prosecutor particularly on the terrorism issues and then um

you know, Donald Trump's the president of the United States. And then tell us about the transition that you went through to become the director of national intelligence. And everybody should understand the entire intelligence community focuses, has to have a focal point. And that is the DNI, as they referred to him.

What's that like? How did that transition come into place? And then on a daily basis, give us just a preview, just a sense of what that's like in the interaction with the president. Sure. Well, you know, I didn't know President Trump. You know, I was not someone that was, you know, spending time at the White House when he became president. And I just sort of focused on the things that you and I were doing on judiciary.

But, you know, we were as you know, we were we were in a lot of televised hearings and and we were questioning a lot of witnesses. And I had heard through different folks that the president, you know, liked the way that I went after certain witnesses and questioned them. And and when I finally met, you know, met him again.

uh he expressed that to me personally and just said I just really you know think you do a great job and um he said I'd love to find a way to get you in the administration and and so we we had lunch and talked about different different positions and he said well I'm planning to make a move and you know as you know Jason I was also in addition to being on the judiciary committee and having the background as a as a terrorism prosecutor I was also on the intelligence committee and

And so, you know, we had that discussion, you know, and he offered me the, you know, the position. And so, you know, but as you also recall, Jason, you know, my path to becoming D&I really wasn't, you know, prepared enough.

for the way the Democrats were going to come after me. And I wasn't really prepared for that. And as you know, I withdrew my name initially. But then really, I mean, in one of the more rewarding moments

you know, things in my life. I, you know, the president said, Hey, I really need you to do this. And I said, okay. And so I took that on and was, you know, and was confirmed by the Senate. Then the president always called me to come back kid after that.

But it was important. I knew what was at stake. And, you know, the director of national intelligence has the head of the intelligence, all all intelligence agencies, including, you know, the CIA and the NSA and, you know, all components of our government that, you know, collect our most sensitive, sensitive intelligence. But the other thing that you do is the DNI is not only.

coordinate all of that work of those agencies is you put together, you know, 365 days a year, what's called the president's daily brief, which is the collection of the, you know, most sensitive intelligence to brief, not just the president, but his cabinet and our military leaders and policymakers, even in Congress on, you know, what the threats to America are, you know, and then you deliver that on a daily basis. And then several times a week,

you know, in-person briefings with the president where he's able to ask about that intelligence. And so I spent a great deal of time, you know, when I was DNI, you know, with President Trump and, you know, Vice President Pence and, you know, the senior, you know, cabinet officials, you know, talking about the threats to America and really the opportunity to, you know, brief the president on those issues and be

you know, an integral part of the decisions that we made to keep America safe and the actions that we in deploying, you know, all of the aspects that we have at the Department of Defense to do that. It was just an incredibly rewarding experience. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be right back.

Yeah, and this is where I don't think Donald Trump, President Trump gets enough credit because he really did surround himself in his inner circle with some very competent people. I mean, between you and Robert O'Brien as the National Security Advisor,

that was a really top notch team of people that you can have a lot of confidence in and that, you know, are going to do the right thing. They're just, you know, people of integrity. And I don't know, I slept better at night knowing that you and Robert and some of these other key people are in those positions. We really, you're very kind to say that, but I do say, I mean, as you know, Robert O'Brien has become, he was always a good friend of yours, but he and I have become really good friends in

in part because we've been through those fires together and he was fabulous as national security advisor. Mike Pompeo was a terrific secretary of state. I mean, we were the decision making, you know, the national security team that President Trump had together, you know, really was

outstanding. And, you know, we did some, you know, we did some fantastic things to keep our country safe that, you know, based on where we are now, I think people can see and appreciate that. I mean, you know, you know, removing

you know, the head of the Iranian terrorist network, you know, Qasem Soleimani, in a very public way, had a profound and deterrent effect on, you know, and really allowed for peace in the Middle East and the Abraham Accord. Same thing with, you know, really the dismantling of the ISIS caliphate, culminating in, you know, taking Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi out in a very public way. Those were, you know, those were strategic actions

The national security successes that when you compare them to some of the things, you know, that have happened more recently, like the, you know, the debacle in Afghanistan and some of the things that, you know, that we're currently facing in terms of threats really show that.

you know, the importance of having good people, you know, as the national security team. And I do think President Trump did a fantastic job with with with a lot of the personnel decisions in that in that regard. As you look back and look, you've been out of it a couple of years now, but you still get intelligence briefings along the way, as I understand it. But as you look at the world stage today,

And you're just telling somebody, the average person who might be listening to the show, what are the biggest threats to the United States of America here in April of 2023? Yeah, I do. You know, I still serve, you know, anytime the former president needs it and is entitled to an intelligence briefing, I would be his assistant.

intelligence advisor. And as you know, after the recent spy balloon incident involving, you know, a Chinese spy balloon flying across the country, I was, you know, I was briefed along with

you know, former national security advisor O'Brien and, you know, Robert and I were briefed along with Mike Pompeo on, on that intelligence. So yeah, I do still get, um, you know, have my clearances and get, uh, uh, intelligence briefings as required or necessary, uh, and appropriate. And, um,

But the existential threats that our country faces, and I talked about this, it hasn't changed from the time I left. I did something, Jason, that no DNI had ever done and I was told was not supposed to do. I wrote a very public op-ed in Wall Street Journal on my way out the door saying China's our number one national security threat and outlined the reasons why in an unclassified way. But

was very clear to me that you know china is presenting a threat that the old soviet union um far more uh you know uh perilous to our country than the old soviet union ever you know presented to us because you know the old soviet union while you know they had nuclear weapons they were never embedded within our economy they were never a strategic trading partner

And it was also easy to get a coalition of countries to confront the old Soviet Union because, you know, likewise, countries around the world that stood for democracy were not dependent on the old Soviet Union. What's changed and what's so difficult now, Jason, is when we talk about the threat that China is, is, you know, they are embedded within our economy. They're the United States' number three trading partner behind, you know, Canada and Mexico.

And when it comes to building a coalition to take action against threats from China, other countries, our allies like Great Britain and France and traditional allies, even Israel, they are trading partners and they are dependent on China for supply chain issues. And so that is the threat from a nation state perspective that challenges us more than anything.

But an issue separate from just nation state is, you know, the challenges of technology and emerging technology. And I think people can appreciate this. And, you know, the United States has been such a dominant superpower from a kinetic fire, you know, firepower standpoint. We've always had the strongest, you know,

military and the best Navy and the best Air Force. And all of that's important, but with the onset of technology and the threats through cybersecurity, other countries that can't compete with us from a kinetic firepower standpoint,

you know, can still cause mayhem and destruction from half a world away in a few seconds and a few keystrokes. And so, you know, countries like even North Korea that can't compete with us, you know, again, from a kinetic fire standpoint, firepower standpoint, they pose great threats to us. Same thing with Iran and, of course, Russia and China as well. And so, you know, our ability to

to defend our physical borders is one issue, but defending our digital borders is a threat that, you know, frankly is something that the United States is going to have to get better at if we want to remain the world's superpower. Well, we could talk for hours and hours about that. Uh, I'm just glad that you've been one of the key people embedded in that. And, and, uh, I do think whatever the next Republican administration is that, uh,

It'd be crazy not to have you helping to lead this, uh, this effort. But, um, I, I do have a few more questions, John, as we kind of wrap this thing up. Um, it's some rapid questions, some critical questions to kind of get to know you. And I don't care how low your handicap is now that you have a little extra time on your, on your hands. Um, but I got to ask you these questions. You ready? I'm ready. All right. Uh, first concert you attended.

Foreigner. Foreigner. That's good. But in Dallas? Yeah. They're still touring. Yeah. Foreigner. I attended Foreigner, but I was in high school. I attended Foreigner. It was a Foreigner 4 album in 1982. There you go. Yep. Believe me, I know. I've heard that thing more than a few times. That's for sure. Favorite vegetable? Vegetable.

Yeah. Underrated. Not even close. I always I have carrots probably three or four times a week. My favorite vegetable. I love it, too. You know, one of my fondest memories growing up in I was in Northern California when I was a little squirt is my mom.

I don't think my dad ever did this, but my mom, we had a little garden and I still had the greatest thrill of going and planting all those seeds and then watching them. And there's nothing better as a little kid to grow in that carrot and wanting to pull it out of the ground and eat it. And then finally, mom would give us the thumbs up. OK, it's time to pull the carrots out. And.

And we'd pull out this old thing and come out and I'd throw the hose over it and just eat it. And I thought that was the coolest thing. Anyway, I just thought that was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So we're agreed. Carrots are the best vegetable. Carrots are very good. Very palatable. Uh, like I'm cooked. I like them raw. I like them. Yeah. Uh,

First job not hey Johnny go take out the garbage. I mean mom and dad first job away Actually getting a check and having a boss somebody other than your parents lifeguard lifeguard

Wow. So you had to get certified and everything. I did. Yeah. I was 15 years old and I got certified and I had to wait until my 16th birthday to be hired by the local YMCA as a lifeguard. But that was my first job. And that was a great job. I loved it. Yeah. It's a rough job. You're working on that tan. So that's good. Favorite. Did you have a pet growing up?

- Yeah, I had many pets, dogs and cats both, and loved both dogs and cats, and to this day, you know, I always have pets, so yeah. - You know, I almost lost my first election.

I was way, way out ahead and my staff and advisors and you get all these people who've been through this before and you have the nomination at this point and they're just like, and it's Utah, right? So it's not that close. So they're just like, just don't say or do anything stupid. So it's two weeks before the election and our little Fox affiliate there in Salt Lake says,

Hey, can we ask you some questions? And so they have this six and 60, something like that, you know, six questions and 60 seconds. And the first question is cats or dogs?

And I say, well, dogs. I said, you know, one of my favorite books is 101 Uses for Dead Cats. And I waxed on about it. And I thought it was cute and thought it was funny. I got so much hate mail and emails. People around me are looking at like, Jason, what are you doing? And I said, oh, I just have fun. I just thought it was funny. And they're like, don't do that. You're about to have an election. You know how many people you just defended? I said, well, it's the real answer. And

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, you got to stick with dogs and cats. Yeah. Yeah, you make it nice and boring. Yeah, that's good. That's why you get Senate confirmed. Okay, so if you and Michelle, you and Michelle, you get this magic power and the magic power is...

You can invite anybody over to break bread. Somebody come share a meal with you, dead or alive, historical figure, current figure, whoever it is. Who would you invite over to come have dinner with you and the family?

Well, you know, Michelle would probably give a different answer. Oh, I'm sure she would. Yeah, I would. Who would I invite over for dinner? Is it just one person? Do I only get one? Well, we're pretty liberal in our ability to give a it's a hypothetical to say the least. Yes, you can get more than one. Who's coming over to have dinner with you guys?

I would invite my late father, since you said dead or alive, obviously a chance to see my dad. Joe Montana would be one of mine. Everyone that knows me knows that I grew up idolizing Joe Montana, the quarterback for Notre Dame and then for the San Francisco 49ers and was always my favorite player growing up.

I would probably, you know, one, one, you know, I've had the fortune, you and I have had great, you know, being in Congress, you get to meet a lot of important people. So I've met presidents and vice presidents and prime ministers and, and movie stars and all of that. As you know, I love to play golf. One person I've never met and I would love to visit with him is Jack Nicklaus.

Um, that would be, uh, yeah, a real treat to, uh, to talk golf with him, uh, football with Joe Montana, you know, with politics, I've got you and, uh, Gowdy whenever I want. So I'm not going to put anyone on that, uh, from, from that genre on my, uh, on my dinner list. So, uh, we'll keep it light and talk. I think I would add Paul McCartney to that list. I think that guy has seen and done things. I just, I,

That would be fun. That would be fun. All right. Let's keep going. Actually, if you're going to add musical guests, I would probably have to add Taylor Swift because my wife and two daughters are big Taylor Swift fans. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Tell me about it. Our daughter and my wife. If there's ever an opportunity I bump into or see or whatever, you know, Taylor Swift before she was Taylor Swift.

She used to come do, you know, those concerts in the morning on Fox and Friends, you know. Fox and Friends, yeah. Yeah, she would come do the early shows like that. Like, whoops, kind of missed that opportunity back in the day. But yeah, our daughter particularly is just goo-gooing over her.

Taylor Swift. Yeah. If I can't blow that as a dad, I still have to pull that one off. I'm nobody until I can pull that one off for our daughter, but it hasn't happened yet. Pineapple on pizza. Yes or no? No. Yeah. Good answer. That's what the judges all like here. I appreciate that. Very last question. I really appreciate generosity of your time, John. Best advice you ever got.

Hmm. Essentially go big or go home. I mean, I think life is, um, uh, I, I, I, I term myself as, um,

a calculated risk taker. I mean, it's what gave me the, the, the opportunity to, um, you know, like we talked about run for Congress in a race that I, uh, shouldn't have won, um, uh, to become, you know, part of the president's cabinet. Um, all of that was really, um, uh, you know, different people said it to me different ways. You know, my, my, remember my, my dad saying, you

You know, you want to live a big life and have to go after your dreams. So, again, people have said it different ways, but essentially go big or go home. No, it's good. It's great advice. And listen...

I know you didn't, uh, like me, uh, similarly didn't, uh, serve in the military. Didn't, you know, felt very almost, um, just very blessed by those who had gone before us to create such opportunities, but your, uh, your service, um, both in Congress, but certainly as the director of national intelligence, that is a crazy hard, difficult, yet one of the most consequential and important jobs in the country. And appreciate your service there and your friendship. And, uh,

I still got to work hard to, you know, try to keep up with you on the golf course, but I'm, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. You even had an injury and I still couldn't catch up with you. So, um, you're always welcome at, uh, come, come back to Dallas national and play another round. And hopefully you'll do that soon. Yes. I would, I would love to do that. And thanks for joining us on the podcast today. And, uh, thank you. Appreciate it. You bet.

Thank you for your friendship, Jason. Appreciate it. All right. I can't thank John enough. You can see this is the kind of person of integrity that we need at the highest echelons and highest levels of our government. Thank goodness he did a great pick by President Trump.

If you could rate this, if you could like this, we would certainly appreciate it and subscribe to it too. We'd appreciate that all the more. Wanna remind listeners that you can listen ad-free with a Fox News podcast plus subscription on Apple Podcasts and Amazon Prime members can listen to this show ad-free on the Amazon Music app. Again, thank you for listening to us today. You can go over to the foxnewspodcast.com to get some more from my colleagues

And I hope you're able to join us next week. I'm Jason Chaffetz. This has been Jason in the House.