Ari Fleischer: Make A Difference, Dive In
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Well, welcome to the Jason and the House podcast. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and we've got a great guest coming up. We're going to be dialing in to Ari Fleischer. I mean, he was right in the thick of things. We're coming up on the 20th anniversary of 9-11, and it's going to be here before we know it. And this is a man who was right by the president's side when all this happened.

But it's a fascinating story, I think, of how Ari got to that level as the press secretary to the President of the United States. Just a wonderful human being. So we're going to dial him up and we're going to talk a little bit about the stupid because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. But let's start with a little riff on the news because playing out is this infrastructure bill.

And I tell you, I've been in this arena, I served in Congress eight and a half years, and the way this is going down is just so fundamentally wrong. So the Senate, what they did in their infinite wisdom is they had this so-called bipartisan group that got together of these 10 Republican senators,

I have no problem with that. The idea that they're going to try to work on both sides of the aisle to come up with a framework. What I think is fundamentally and totally wrong is that the procedural vote to proceed with the bill happened before there was actually a bill. So the Senate process is such that what you're supposed to do is invoke cloture, which means you have to get 60 votes in the Senate to agree to proceed with the bill.

I think it's a fair question to say, well, if we're going to proceed with debating and going on with the bill, what's in the bill? And not a one-page summary with big numbers next to, you know, rail is going to get this and roads are going to get this. What are the actual details? So...

What I thought was absolutely silly, which was highlighted in particular by Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina, Senator Mike Lee of Utah and others, is how are we going to vote on a bill of which there is literally zero text? But they did, and they got the motion to proceed, which now means the Democrats only need 50 plus one in order to get there.

The other thing that I thought was absolutely wrong with how this is put forward is the pay-fors. Now, supposedly this thing is all paid for. You know, nearly $30 trillion in debt. Don't tell me that this is all paid for. It's not paid for. When you've got a looming overhead with that, we're paying about $1.5 billion a day

in interest on our national debt and the interest rate is near zero. So don't tell me, Senators, that this is all paid for. Oh, and by the way, what are some of those paid fors? One of the pay fors is selling off a portion of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Are you kidding me? What Republican is signing off on that?

You have the Keystone pipeline that was taken out. You have a limitation now on oil and gas drilling on public lands. So you've totally limited the ability to move oil and gas products, and you've limited the ability to extract those products. You've also got ANWR and these other places in Alaska that are being shut down.

And so your limitation is now not one of self-sufficiency, which Donald Trump was able to achieve, but reliant upon others around the world to give us this reserve. So

We have a strategic petroleum reserve and part of what these senators signed off is let's sell literally billions of dollars worth of oil and gas. That creates a vulnerability for us. You can't do that. You can't sell off the reserve that you have and limit the ability to produce internally and think that that's a good public policy for the United States. That's just but one of these so-called pay-fors. And so I...

I don't know. There is absolutely no way I would have voted to proceed on a bill that wasn't even written yet. Now, the 2,700-plus pages are out by the time this podcast comes out.

the next few hours. I'm sure we'll learn even more details, but the way it's proceeding is wrong. The last point I'll make about this is they should have, if the Republicans were going to go strike a deal with the Democrats and say, we're going to come up with this quote unquote bipartisan one, then you need an assurance. You need something publicly out there that says,

we are not going to pass another infrastructure bill that is solely just only Democrats right on top of that because that would be disingenuous. You either do one together or

But you don't do two. And that's not something that they got an assurance of from the Democrats. So, hey, yeah, we'll give you this bipartisan stuff. And then we'll fill in all the blanks of all the Green New Deal and all the other stuff. By the way, there's a lot of Green New Deal in this bipartisan bill. And we'll do this other Green New Deal stuff on top of that. Whoa. And again...

No discussion about where we're going to cut spending. Spending continues to rise. And again, I don't know how we sustain this without some cuts somewhere. Inflation will kick in. Our debt is overtaking us. The valuation of the dollar will go down. And it is not good for the immediate generation. It's not good for the future generation. And I am one that wants infrastructure now.

But you have to make hard choices. DC is not making a hard choice in doing this. And don't tell me that it's paid for because I could argue with you all day long on that. It is not. All right. Time to bring on the stupid.

Because, you know, there's always somebody doing something stupid somewhere. All right, we got to go back to the mask mandate in the House of Representatives. I know I've talked about this. I know I brought it up, but it continues to be not just emblematic, but reality of how ridiculous this is. The vaccines work. I've gotten a vaccine. My wife's gotten a vaccine. Whether you decide or not...

to do that is between you and your healthcare professional. It's not between you and Nancy Pelosi and no, no. Decide with your healthcare professional. You choose not to, that's your business. You get self-determination. The reality is if you don't get it, you're at a much higher risk of actually getting the virus. And some of that's going to be deadly, but that's your choice, not mine.

But in the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi is out there saying we're going to arrest people, members of Congress and their staff, if they're not wearing a mask, no matter whether or not they're wearing a mask. And they're simultaneously complaining that people aren't heeding the warnings to get the vaccination. Nothing says the vaccines don't work. Nothing says don't get a vaccine more than you're going to have to all wear a mask, a mask, even if you've been vaccinated.

It's such a mixed message. And I guess the hypocrisy that drives me nuts, that puts this into the realm of stupid beyond stupid, is soon after Nancy Pelosi does this, what happens? She's posing for a photo opportunity in the House of Representatives, takes off her mask.

So when it's a photo opportunity for Nancy Pelosi, it's totally fine. If you think it's a deadly disease, if you think it's a pandemic, if you think it's all these things, enough so that you're going to arrest a member of Congress or their staff, and then you flaunt it by taking it off, then arrest the Speaker of the House if that's the way you're going to play.

Then you have Jerry Nadler, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, not wearing a mask in the Capitol. How come he's not arrested? It's on video. You've got video evidence of it. This duplicity, this, this, nothing drives me crazy more crazy. Nothing drives the people that I interact with crazy than the hypocrisy coming out of Washington, D.C. And that's why it qualifies as bringing on the stupid.

You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with my conversation with Ari Fleischer right after this. The Fox True Crime Podcast presents Crimes on Campus. Sharing chilling stories of scandal, corruption, and murder. New episodes available every Tuesday this month. Listen and follow at foxtruecrime.com. Now it's time to phone a friend, and we're going to call just a wonderful guy. I really like this guy. Former White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer.

Hello? Hey, all right. This is Jason Chaffetz. Thanks so much for joining us. You got it, Jason. How you been? I'm doing great. And I am thrilled and honored that you'd say yes and join the Jason in the House podcast. So thank you so much. I really do appreciate it. You got it. I like your house.

Well, you know, nobody could spell Chaffetz, so I had to go with something that, I mean, imagine my surprise when I went to go get Chaffetz.com and it was available. And so I had to, nobody could spell it, let alone pronounce it. And you know what? I wanted to get you on because I have just been an admirer. I'm honored and privileged to know you and bump into you from time to time at Fox, but

You're a Fox News contributor, but you're also the press secretary for a president that I greatly admire, George W. Bush. And you're also, you know, there's just you've risen to such a level and had such a steadiness and such a I think you were a great reflection of the president there.

And I just wanted to take some time and understand how did you get into that role? What made you become you? And so I want to go back and start, if I could, with little Ari. Like, I was born in. Let's kind of start there, and then we'll roll up until you're having to deal with some of the major crises in the country.

All right. Well, I was born in New York City. I lived on the Upper West Side until I was five years old. The son, a third son of a Jewish immigrant to the United States. My father is Jewish. Also, my mom was the immigrant from Hungary. I went to Benin Jesherin for nursery school, Jason, which means at the age of five, I was already an Upper West Side liberal. And then it took me pretty much my whole rest of my life to figure out how to undo that.

But what was life like? I mean, do you have brothers, sisters? I mean, you're doing pretty well if you're living on the Upper West Side. So what were your parents doing? What was life like at home? Well, I wouldn't say that about my parents. My parents were decidedly middle class. Like I said, my mother was an immigrant to the country. I have two older brothers.

And we have a very close family. But, you know, my father was a textile executive. He worked his way up from the bottom of the textile industry. He was the youngest of six raised by a single mom in the Depression era. And he met my mom in 19. Well, she came to America in 1939. She escaped the Nazis. My grandfather, her father was smart enough to say this one feels different.

And in early 1939, he came to the United States to restart his life. He was a doctor, but he couldn't practice in the United States. He had to start all over.

And in August of 39 or July of 39, he sent for my mother, her mother and her brother. And they got out just before the Nazis invaded Poland and World War Two began. We think we're not sure about we think she came out on the last ship across the Atlantic before the U-boats, the Nazi U-boats started sinking commercial ships going back and forth. So my father met my mother. We got married in 1955.

And along came Michael, Peter, and me. I was born in 1960. All right. So you're little Ari. I mean, are you like speaking better than everybody else? Are you able to articulate sentences and just like, wow, this kid, he could talk. He's going to be our spokesman for our family. How did that work? You know, it's funny you ask that because one of my last interviews I did at the White House right before I left was with the organization that represented people who had lisps because I had a lisp. I was a child with a lisp. I had to go to a

some specialists, some speech therapists to learn how to talk without a lisp. And then when I left the White House, I just thought, you know what, I'm a spokesman who used to lisp, and I want to do something just to show anybody who's got a speech disability that you can overcome it. So no, I wouldn't say I was more articulate. I think I just talked a lot.

Well, you talked a lot. But was that tough growing up? I mean, kids are pretty cruel sometimes. They'll tease other kids who, you know, if they have a limp or a lisp or their hair is different. I don't remember it being that way. You know, I think it was first and second grade. It was. It was first and second grade. And, you know, who at that age is a bully yet?

So it was just the feature I had. And it was something I would go and regularly get it worked on. And then I was able to shed it, I think, by third grade or something like that. But I did talk a lot, Jason. I do have to confess to that. I got thrown out of a library in New York City because I talked too much. And my brothers and my mother won't let me forget it still. So I try to talk a little bit less.

All right. Well, that's a good quality. It started from the get-go. So you're going up, you're going to high school. And then what's your first job? What did you decide to do? And where was life taking you? What was the trajectory you were on at that point? Well, my parents moved out of New York City in the early 60s, mid-60s to the country, to Westchester County, to a suburb of New York, pretty rural suburb, 40 miles north of New York City. And I

My first job I was in high school. I always had jobs. It's funny. I was a paper boy delivering newspapers, which allows me to tell reporters that I used to work in their industry before they did. I would throw the newspaper around, which at the White House I would do that, too. But it was kind of not to deliver it. Yeah.

But I was a newspaper boy. I was a camp counselor. I played a ton of baseball. And then in high school, I wanted to spend a summer abroad. My high school had this wonderful program where you could spend a summer in a different country. I wanted to go to Sweden for six weeks. And my parents said, you've got to pay for part of it. So I got a job stripping furniture at a local furniture store.

And it was a blast. You know, the furniture would come in and my job was to take off all the upholstery. And I still know the difference between removing upholstery that's got a staple in it and a tack. Tacks are a lot easier to remove. And that's how I paid for my trip to Sweden that summer.

And I always worked. You know, I guess that's something my parents instilled in me. And I'm very proud to say my children always work, too. My daughter, who was 17, she worked at the waffle cabin selling waffles. And my son is a ski instructor. They both did it on a ski mountain where we ski all the time. But, yes, you learn that kind of thing from your parents at a young age about work, the value of money.

And hopefully, my parents just instilled in me, you've got to pay for what you get. Yeah, not everybody learns that lesson, Ari. But I find that the successful people that I interview and talk to, it's a core element. It's a common denominator that radiates across that

At a fairly young age, they took on other responsibility, had to listen to somebody else who was the boss and but also had fun and learned to work with people and and and do a job. And so but at what point are you sitting back in like, you know, your sophomore year saying, you know, I think ultimately what I'm going to do is I'm going to go work in the White House. You know, that's what I'm going to do.

I can be the spokesperson. I can be the voice for the president of the United States. When did that thought cross your mind? Keep in mind, I was raised in a liberal democratic family, and I was a liberal democrat myself. So I get to college at Middlebury College in Middlebury, Vermont in 1978, a liberal. Jimmy Carter is the president.

And I couldn't stand Jimmy Carter. I mean, I just thought Jimmy Carter keeps apologizing for America. He's weak. The Soviets invaded Afghanistan. He did nothing. And it just bugged me. So Ronald Reagan comes along. And even though I raised the liberal, I said, you know, I love Reagan's patriotism. I love this guy's sense of optimism. And I'll tell you, Jason, one of the biggest events in my life.

There was a hockey game not too far from Middlebury, right across the border of New York State in a town called Lake Placid in 1980. And the United States beat the Soviet Union. And when that crowd started to chant, USA, USA, what you have to understand about 1980 is I had never in my life heard anybody cheer for my country.

You know, in the post-Vietnam, post-Watergate era, people kicked America. People talked down about America. Jimmy Carter apologized for America. And all of a sudden, that crowd is cheering for our country. It made me feel so good to be an American.

And I think today with sports and people cheering for our country, it's kind of obvious. Who doesn't do that? Well, back in 1980, no one did that. That was a breakthrough moment. And I loved it. And it just matched my love for Reagan, my patriot, the sense of patriotism. So I started to find that I was becoming conservative. And so two years later, I graduated from Middlebury as a conservative Democrat who couldn't stand Jimmy Carter and loved Ronald Reagan.

And I graduated from Middlebury without a job. I had applied to law schools, grad schools for foreign affairs. I moved home really just to play baseball. And I figured I'll go to school in September. I don't know where, I don't know what, but I'll go to school. And then a friend from Middlebury had a brother who was managing a congressional campaign in Westchester County where I live.

And they needed a press secretary. It was a Republican New York State Assemblyman running against the incumbent long-term congressman. My oldest brother used to work for this guy, Democrat. And I said, I'll interview. I like politics. And so I interviewed and I got the job, which tells you how little you need to know to be a press secretary. But I fell in love with it, Jason. I just absolutely first job out of college, 21 years old.

I fell in love with being at the nexus of communications, politics and policy, which is how I viewed my job as press secretary on a campaign. And we lost, but I got the bug. And halfway through the campaign, I told myself, I'm going to finish this campaign as a Democrat. But no matter what happens, win, lose or draw, when it's over, I'm changing parties. I'm going to become a Republican and I'm going to move to Washington. Hopefully my candidate wins, but he lost.

I changed parties in November of 1982 when I was 22 years old and moved to Washington unemployed. And that's how I began my career. Well, there's, you know, it's nothing like just jumping into the deep end and saying, all right, here we go. I mean, my stories are fairly similar to, you know, there was no certainty. There is no guarantee. You just got to get out there and start swimming as fast as you can.

So you're obviously, I mean, you went to the highest of highest levels, but not everybody does. And a lot of people want to. What differentiated you from, I mean, the masses of people that would have loved to have your job? I think it happened because I never tried to make it happen. I worked on Capitol Hill for about 17 years. I was a press secretary for three congressmen and one senator.

And my career, I was fortunate. It kept moving up. I kept working for more senior members of Congress. I worked for a senator from New Mexico, one of the most distinguished senators, Pete Domenici, former chairman of the Budget Committee. And then I worked for the House Ways and Means Committee when Republicans took control of the Congress after the 1994 election.

So I kept learning more, working for more senior members, ways and means. For the first time in 40 years in the majority, in the most powerful committee of Congress. And I learned one of the most important skills as being a press secretary was to keep your mouth shut and your ears open. And I would learn. I would pay attention. And remember what I said about that first campaign, the nexus of policy, communications and politics?

Well, what I learned and I loved about working for Domenici and Ways and Means was learning policy. I was determined that if a reporter was going to call a staff director of one of the subcommittees of the Ways and Means Committee to ask substantive questions, I wanted to learn the substance so that reporter would call me and not the staff director. And so I just I loved learning the tax code. I loved learning welfare policy, Social Security policy.

And I really dedicated myself to studying it, to interviewing these brilliant staff directors and talking to them all the time to learn their issues and then translating it into English so I could talk to the press about it and writing. Yeah, you know, it truly is amazing because, you know, having been in Congress for eight and a half years and working in the governor's office, I was chief of staff and

I've had some really good press people, but that was one of the core messages is, look, you have got to understand policy. And I think a lot of wannabe press secretaries and whatnot look at the television and the exposure and they forget that the underlying message

nexus here is policy. And if you don't even understand the question the reporter's asking, you're not going to be able to project what is the real accurate answer. And I find it fascinating. I actually heard Bill Clinton say this, and I think it's absolutely right. He said you should be able to take any issue and be able to synthesize it down into a 30-second version, a three-minute version, and a 30-minute version.

And if you don't understand and you can't dive into the 30-minute section of that policy, you really don't know it. And so you're not going to get to the three-minute and the 30-second version of it. So you got to ultimately know policy. And when I heard him say this, and obviously paraphrasing,

I thought he is absolutely right. And it is my brother, for instance, is really good at synthesizing something down at 15 to 30 seconds. That's a really hard thing to do. But if you don't understand the core principle and the policy, you'll never get there. You got it. That's exactly right. And that's smart of Clinton. That's right. But why else are you there?

If you're not in government to enact policies to improve people's lives, what are you doing? Are you there to get on TV? Are you there to get booked on a cable show? Why serve if it's not about policy? And so that's why I had fun. I love doing it. And this is why I tell people even today, it's polarizing as Washington is, move there. Make a difference. Dive in. Yeah, it's a tough town today.

But if you care, it's the right place to be. And it doesn't matter what your party is. If you're a liberal, fight for liberal policies. Republican, fight for Republican conservative policies. But dive in and learn everything you can. It's just it was such an exciting town to Jason. You know, I was single for almost all the time I was in Washington. I met my my wife at the White House. But.

It was an exciting town, intellectually stimulating, young people really driven and with a vigorous social life and intellectual life. I loved it. I ended up being there for 21 years. And I got kind of bored on Capitol Hill after about 17. And what happened for me was a friend of mine was a consultant for Elizabeth Dole when she ran for president. And so in 1999, he came to me and said, Dole's going to run.

And we need a communications director for our race. Would you like to talk to Elizabeth Dole? And I was bored enough on Capitol Hill. I thought I'd seen all the different cycles before and kind of got repetitive. So I said, sure, I'll interview you. That sounds great. Who doesn't want to work on a presidential campaign?

I went to work as Elizabeth Dole's communications director on her campaign. And when she bowed out and she quit the race, George W. Bush asked me to move to Austin, Texas to become spokesman on his race. He had noticed me on the Dole campaign. He liked me. I'll tell you a quick story.

at the Iowa Straw Bowl. She's on stage giving her speech. I'm behind the curtain, behind stage. And this guy comes up to me, swaggers up to me, puts his arm around me and says, I really like the way you do your job. Looks me in the eye and walks off. And it was George Bush. Wow. And I was thunderstruck. You know, I was thinking here, I'm working for Elizabeth Dole. It's a tough race. We're not really going anywhere.

And the front runner, who I don't know, just came up to me and put his arm around me. What a nice guy. So when she dropped out, I moved to Texas and became George Bush's spokesman and loved the guy. Yeah. You know, I've only had the opportunity to meet the president, George W. Bush, once.

And it was actually at the inauguration for, I think it was Trump. And I'm there and I've got kind of an aisle seat and we're, you know, the dignitaries are coming in and the president just comes in and says, hey, Jason, how you doing? And I mean, I was just like, well, Mr. President, I was, he was just so happy and jovial and,

just smiling and having a good time. And, and I, I just, it was such an honor. And anyway, it was neat. So, so you go and you join and then, but walk us through that journey. Well, first,

He ended in a tie before he won. Right, right, right. You know, I thought the recount was going to be the biggest story I'd ever participated in politics. Who could imagine a race ending in a virtual tie like that going through a six week period when America didn't know the name of the president? And then, of course, everything got changed on September 11th and there were a lot bigger stories in the recount.

I loved that job. I loved standing at the podium on behalf of a man and on behalf of policies that I believed in. I loved my encounters with the press corps. I loved taking what they dished out. And I loved dishing back a little bit of it too. And, you know, I just relished that intellectual game of chess that you play standing at that podium where, you know, reporters ask you A and you're already thinking of B, knowing that's going to make them ask question C and you're already thinking of answer D.

That intellectual part, that thrust and parry back and forth with the press that only wants to make the case that your boss screwed up and he's bad. And your job, of course, is to promote your boss and his policies. It was a thrill. I really loved taking that podium and engaging. It was a different era. It was a lot kinder, calmer, less vitriolic.

But it was tough enough, even back when I did it. And I loved it. Loved every second of it. So it's hard to imagine that it's actually been this long, but we're coming up on, I believe, the 20th anniversary of 9-11. Yep. And that's a day that you woke up and went to work and no idea what was going to happen in the future.

how it would change the world, the country, and I'm sure you personally. Can you walk us through that a little bit? And I've heard you interviewed about this, but it's such an important moment in history, and how the president dealt with it was just, I think, pitch perfect. Well, I woke up in Florida at a hotel where the president had just gone for a jog and

Got in the motorcade and headed off to a little elementary school where the president was going to do a reading event to focus on the importance of education. And for especially for black children, the importance of reducing the gap between black and white kids and reading.

And as soon as I got out of the motorcade, my pager, Jason, no smartphones back then, my pager went off with a note from Brian Bravo, who worked for me in the White House. He monitors news. And he said to page me saying a plane hit the World Trade Center. No more information than that. And then when I was in that schoolroom with the president, as he was reading to the kids, I got a second page saying the second tower has been hit by aircraft.

And in that instant, I knew it had to be terrorism, of course. And about 30 seconds later, Andy Card walked in the room and whispered in the president's right ear, second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack. And that changed everything. It changed the course of human events. American events changed our country. We're still living with it today. So the president gets up. And then what happens? Because he leaves. He got up.

He waited there for about six or seven minutes, which later became very controversial in the eyes of some liberals. Michael Moore made a movie about it, blaming Bush for the subsequent attacks, basically, because Bush didn't bolt from his seat.

So when you think about polarization, remember, it didn't just start under Donald Trump. And then we went into a holding room and worked the phones. President was talking to the vice president as national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice. I was making calls. Everybody was making calls trying to ascertain what was going on. What's the nature of this? Who's behind it? How many people are hurt? Learning what we could learn and dispatching resources to New York City.

We left the school, headed to Air Force One in the motorcade. And en route, we heard about the third plane that hit the Pentagon. We board Air Force One. And when we board, we're told that there's still six unidentified aircraft in the sky that have not responded to the order to land. So we thought three planes have hit targets. There are six more out there. We take off and we hear a fourth plane went down near Camp David.

That was the first report we heard aboard Air Force One about the plane that ultimately went down to Shanksville, Pennsylvania, which I believe is about 100 miles from Camp David. But the first report was near Camp David. Later, we heard where it actually was. So now we're thinking four planes down, five more are out there.

The president wanted to get back to Washington. The Secret Service absolutely did not want him back in Washington. So we implemented, Jason, old Cold War plans that I had never heard of. But the military that drills for these things had heard of it and they practiced it still. They feared this was a decapitation attack, a decapitation attack.

is if the Soviet Union or China launched such a massive number of nuclear missiles in an attempt to take out the president, the vice president, the speaker of the house, the president pro tem of the Senate, every congressman, every senator, the United States Supreme Court and all members of the cabinet, that's a decapitation. We actually drill for this today to prevent it from happening. The reason that a cabinet member doesn't go to the State of the Union or any speech in the Congress going to address by the president

It's for the continuity of government. So there can be no decapitation. So one person in the line of succession at least is in a safe spot away from everybody else in case that one place is destroyed. So on September 11th, they partially implemented some of the evacuation plans in case of a decapitation. And we flew up to 45,000 feet in the sky in a random zigzag pattern. Now, 45,000 feet for a 747 is awfully, awfully high.

The only person in the world who knew where Air Force One was going was its pilot. At that stage, where he goes is entirely up to him. No one can know. And so it's a random zigzag pattern in the sky is what Colonel Mark Tillman did.

until a decision was made then to land at Barksdale Air Force Base so we could refuel. And the president wanted to address the nation. So our first stop after realizing we couldn't get back to Washington was Barksdale. And that's where the president delivered his first address to the nation. You're listening to Jason in the House. We'll be back with more of my conversation with Ari Fleischer right after this.

Now scrambling to put together, what role do you play in putting together that? I mean, it's such a pivotal speech. The information is sketchy and in a constant state of flux. What's your role? What are you doing at this point when the plane's zigzagging, the intelligence services are trying to gather as much information to get it to the national security advisor and others, to the vice president? What's happening there?

Well, my role, frankly, was I pretty much glued myself by the president's side for much of the day, taking detailed notes on what he did and what he said. I would occasionally go back and brief the press, go back to my cabin a little bit. But I mostly spent the day in the president's cabin, recognizing what a moment in history this is. I have very detailed verbatim notes on everything the president did and said. But the president has a team of speechwriters who operate even when they're not with him.

And so others were doing the writing. I was doing what I always do, being around the president and then talking to the press, not describing what the president is doing. And that way I can convey information to the American people. So that was really my role on that day. And I've got to say, the president's first two speeches to the nation, he made one from the elementary school before he departed and a second from Barksdale. He was criticized for them, Jason. A lot of reporters said that he appeared unsteady.

He was also criticized by Peter Jennings, the ABC anchor, and Brian Williams, the NBC anchor, for not returning instantly to Washington. They thought it was basically cowardice of the president to fly around and not return back to Washington because the nation wanted to see its president in the Oval Office. And while the nation did want to see the president in the Oval, the nation wanted to see the president safe.

And, you know, I just it struck me even in the middle of September 11th, the snideness, the criticism. It was unabated. It kept coming in. And I guess that's fine. That's our system. But the next day I had a chance to explain to reporters why we did what we did and why the president couldn't come back to Washington, etc.,

And ultimately, then we flew to Offutt Air Force Base. We left Barksdale, landed at Offutt in Nebraska. And the reason we went there is twofold. One, the Secret Service wanted the president to spend the night there, and they had the facilities, good facilities to do that. But more importantly, they had a command structure, communication structure, where the president could convene a secure National Security Council meeting with multiple parties over secure telephones and video screens.

And that's what he did. We got to Nebraska and the president convened the meeting of the National Security Council. And then he made the decision and just said, we're going back to Washington.

I'm overriding the Secret Service. We're going back. And at that point, all the planes had landed. It was only four. It was not the nine we feared. And even the Secret Service recognized we have combat air patrols up now over most American cities. There are no other planes in the sky. It's safe to return. And that's what we did. And then the president addressed the nation that night. And I think that's when he really found his footing. I think his speech to the nation that night was a speech of reassurance.

It was a message that we're going to take care of this and we're going to bring comfort to those loved ones are missing. We're going to do everything we can to help people in New York, to help people in Washington, help people in Pennsylvania. And we're going to take care of whoever launched this attack. You know, I'm far away from this. I'm in Utah. The country is just glued to the television trying to figure out what's happening and

But for me, I think one of the more pivotal, impactful moments is when the president went to New York City and he stood on that rubble and he put his arm around that firefighter. And that was such an emotional moment and such a proud moment when he grabbed that bullhorn. Where were you? What was your view of that moment? Yeah, I was probably about 15, 20 feet away from the president, probably.

Jason, that entire afternoon was spontaneous. The president went to ground zero to pay tribute and to thank all the rescue workers and everybody who was giving their all to find people three days later. And they wanted to hear from him and he could tell that.

He did not plan on speaking. We didn't have any equipment to speak, frankly. But one of our advanced people was able to find a bullhorn. And so she brought it to the chief of staff, Andy Card. And Andy asked the president, do you want to give some remarks? And the president said, absolutely. So he climbed up on that fire truck. Bob Beckwith was the name of the fireman. He draped his arm around, retired fireman. And the president started to speak, unplanned, just pure emotion. And these rescue workers started to shout at him. I can't hear you. I can't hear you.

And the president just stopped talking. And then he said, you can't hear me, but I can hear you. And pretty soon the people who did this will hear from all of us. And the roar, the roar of those rescue workers who wanted justice to be done. I mean, it was it was such a powerful, pivotal, spontaneous, moving moment. And so short and so brief, too.

And it summed up where America was. Well, it came from the heart, the president's heart. And that's what made it so real and so impactful. And the things that went on over the, you know, have gone on over the last 20 years. I just hope these younger generations don't forget how

How devastating and how and how many Americans stepped up to serve and serve their country in so many ways. I told you, I haven't been there and lived through what I did at that time. I do have to say part of what's great about life and about America is no, we should never forget. Life goes on. You build again. You come back.

And, you know, it's like Pearl Harbor, a generation after Pearl Harbor, 20 years after Pearl Harbor. The people who were born in 1961, Pearl Harbor is an event in history, even though it's 20 years later, 1964, 20 years. I'm sorry, 61, 20 years later. And just like September 11th now is 20 years later. I hope people have learned the lessons that there are still terrorists who want to attack America.

And that's why we need to be tough. That's why we need to be strong with our intelligence services, our special operators overseas, strong military. But on the other hand, there's a younger generation that always replaces an older generation. And hopefully everybody learns that you can't stop the passage of time, can you? Yeah. So your time, your years there in the White House with the president,

What are the takeaways for you? You went into it thinking one thing and you came out thinking another thing. What was the change? What was the perspective that maybe you can only gain having been in that role in that arena? I think two, one professional, one personal. The professional is believe. Do not go to the White House. Do not enter politics if you don't believe in ideas and in your boss who's fighting for those ideas. That's what it all comes down to, Jason.

If you believe it is the most uplifting job in the world and all the hurdles you face are just hurdles because you're trying to cross those hurdles to get something done. And that's what powers you through it all. That's what really makes it such an enjoyable job. You know, on the personal front, you know, I look at what's going on in my life now and, you know, I'll say to myself, I can do anything because I've already done the hardest thing I've ever had to do. That job is hard. That

The mental aspect of it was hard. The hours were hard. The weight of the decisions that were made, it was hard. It was a big magnitude. But boy, it does prepare you. So I tell myself now that at the White House, since every day was a crisis, there's no such thing as a crisis. Crisis is routine. And now when I work for my clients, when I deal with things in life, if there's a bump in the road, I say to myself, that's a pretty small bump.

I'll get through. I'll get over it. You know, the tough things that happen in our life at the time, they seem insurmountable. But then when you look back on it, they make you better, smarter, more loving, more compassionate, more prepared to take on that next challenge. And that is what life is all about. And you just hope and pray that

People, you know, get back up and say, all right, took a smack there. And, you know, now we can continue to play on and you play smarter and better and in a more loving and effective way, right? I mean, that is what it's all about. And that can be professional, personal tragedy that strikes you or your family. It's tough. You learn from everything, don't you?

Yeah. Well, Ari, what I hope you've also learned, and even though those tough days, you've never been through these tough 12 questions I'm about to ask you. So I don't care how many pushups or how many times you've been at that lectern up there in the press room. I hope you're ready for these questions because it's just a little insight to get to know you a little bit better.

All right. Well, I'm in your house, so I'll go by your rules. All right. Fair enough. And thank you. And thank you again for your service. We really do appreciate it. I think there are a lot of sacrifices, but...

A lot of good happens when we get good people. And I do believe on both sides of the aisle who are passionately caring and patriotic about their country, good things will happen from that. So thank you for that service. But let's learn a little bit more about Ari Fleischer, and let's see if we can't get some insight from these as well. All right. First question. First concert you attended? Don McLean. Now that is pretty cool.

Singer of American Pie. Yeah, no, that's a good one. That's a really good one. All right. What was your high school mascot? A fox. Fox Lane Foxes. Fox Lane Foxes. All right. Who was your first celebrity crush? Oh, I don't think I ever had one. I try to pay as little attention to movies and Hollywood as I can get away with. But if I have to guess, I'll say Cameron Diaz. All right. Fair enough. All right. At least you gave me a name. That's good. All right. Favorite vegetable?

Salad. Salad is a vegetable, but okay, that's...

You know, I think this is like the 19th podcast that I've done. And I ask this question every time. I've never gotten the same answer. Largely because there are a lot of people that don't actually name a vegetable. That was just my excuse to get to the steak and the potatoes. I told my wife, I said, look, I want to have all the nutrition I need now.

all the green beans broccoli all that stuff that I'm supposed to be eating I want you to put it in a blender and I will suffer the 20 30 seconds that it takes to drink it down but I don't want to sit and eat that I I just blend it and I'll drink it oh gross and I do it first and then I'm like rinsing my mouth out all right let's get to the good stuff now and

Anyway, all right. So if you met Bigfoot, what would you ask him? Can I outrun you? There you go. I think I'd show him some video and say, is that really you? Is this one you? Is that one you? How long have you been hanging out? All right. What celebrity do some people think you most look like? Because, look, you're a very recognizable person. You've been out in the country a

But every once in a while, you know, most people who have had name recognition and they go out and have other people think, oh, and they name somebody else. Who's that person for you? Yeah, maybe Telly Savalas, the bald guy from Kojak. Our younger generation may not know who he is, but if you look that up, that's a good one. And you know what? I do love on your Twitter page that thing about the French fries. That thing is still cracking me up.

That's what happens when you don't have any hair. Yeah. There was a story about McDonald's French fries helping to grow people's hair, and Ari wrote out, yeah, it doesn't work. It's pretty funny the way you say it. Do you ever have any pets growing up? I did. I had a cat named Snowball, and right now I have a dog named Kitty. A dog named Kitty. All right. Yep.

Beautiful Samoyed. My daughter wanted a cat. My son wanted a dog. The compromise, coming from Washington, is we got a dog and named it after a cat. There you go. All right. Life's most embarrassing moment. I'm colorblind, Jason, and I constantly wear purple shirts that I think are navy blue. There is a difference. For those of us that aren't colorblind, yeah, we can see the difference.

That's funny. All right. If you could meet one person, is it dead or alive? Who would it be? Somebody you go to dinner with, want to get to know. Abraham or Moses, I think.

I guess Moses would have to bring Aaron because he had a spokesman. Abraham or Moses. I love the way you look at that, the way you phrase that. That's good. So you get a twofer on that one. That's good. That's good. Unique talent nobody knows about. I play in a 38-up wood bat hardball league. I'm a 60-year-old in this league, and it is the time of my life. I play every weekend, and I love playing hardball. I love playing baseball. Wow. What position do you play?

Third base. Wow. So you can throw. That's good. That's good. A lot of fun. Yeah. No, good for you. Good for you. All right. Pineapple on pizza. Yes or no? Absolutely not. Oh, good answer. We knew we liked you. All right. What do you believe about UFOs? Well, remember, I worked for Senator Domenici, represented Roswell, New Mexico. So there's a lot I know about that I really shouldn't talk about. Yeah.

I'll just let people figure it out for themselves before it's too late. Interesting answer. I don't know what that meant, but that's why you were a spokesperson. All right. Best advice you ever got. Last question. Best advice you ever got. Marlon Fitzwater, George H.W. Bush's press secretary to me before I went to the White House. He said to me, stop and smell the roses. And that was true at the White House. And it's true every day in life, too, isn't it? There's a lot of good going on. Stop and smell the roses.

Well, Ari, you have had quite the career, an unbelievable ascent. But I think it's a demonstration. You put the right attitude in place, put the smarts behind it, have fun, put a smile on your face. People want to work with happy people. I find you to be one of those happy people.

but as somebody who's also invested the time and energy to be highly competent and know the details of what you're actually talking about. And that's why you rose on the food chain to the highest levels of the land and why you're such an important voice in our country now. So I cannot thank you enough for that.

all the time you dedicated and, and everything you've done for the country and, and, and what you're doing playing third base in that, in that baseball league. Jason, well, thank you. And thanks for your service. You served at a pretty tough time and you, you helmed some tough committee and some important committees and went through some tough battles and you came out real well. So it's fun to be with you. Thank you for having me into your house again.

All right. Well, Ari Fleischer, thank you so much. And thanks for joining the Jason in the House podcast. And again, I can't thank Ari Fleischer enough for his time. He is such a good person. I got to tell you, people like being around people that are happy. Ari Fleischer is a happy person. And you just love interacting with him. I've seen him from afar, but then I've gotten to know him a little bit up close and personal at Fox.com.

It's wonderful human, human being. I'm glad he's been involved in the public square and hope we hear a lot more from him in the future. He's got a great insight and great way to just, just look at things. I really do like him. So appreciate him doing that. All right. I was thinking through this week. We wanted to have a moment of inspiration. And then I came across this. I don't know if this is inspiring, but in Murray, Utah,

John Paleka and Dallas Anderson. I don't know how I pronounce John's name right or not, but this winter they achieved something that should be highly inspirational. They broke a world record. A world record that we didn't know could be broken, but they set out to break a world record and then they found this and they broke it. In fact, they smashed the record. This world record is farthest marshmallow propelled and caught in the mouth.

Now, I can only imagine all the science that goes behind this. And they didn't just break the record, but they smashed it. So they propelled a marshmallow 225 feet, 10 inches, which is important in a world record, and caught it in their mouth. Now,

I don't know if they had a mouth guard or not, but wouldn't you be worried about a marshmallow that can travel that far? And it happened in the, they were outside, so it was cold. They're at altitude, so you could probably get a little more distance in that marshmallow. But the picture I saw, there's like snow around and whatnot. But I would think that that marshmallow coming at that velocity from that distance, I'd be so worried about my teeth. This is not like your wife tossing a marshmallow and see if you can catch it four or five feet away. 225 feet.

Anyway, they have a Guinness World Record, and congratulations to them. Let's see if anybody can beat 225 feet, 10 inches, farthest marshmallow propelled and caught in the mouth.

Well, thanks for listening to the Jason in the House podcast. You can find more podcasts at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you could rate this thing, we'd appreciate some stars up there. We really do appreciate it. I hope you can rate and review the podcast. I'm Jason in the House. Come back to us next week, too, when we have another interview. I'm Jason Chaffetz, and this has been Jason in the House.

From the Fox News Podcast Network. I'm Janice Dean, Fox News Senior Meteorologist. Be sure to subscribe to the Janice Dean Podcast at foxnewspodcast.com or wherever you listen to your podcasts. And don't forget to spread the sunshine.