The Food Therapist On Tips For Mindful Eating, Ozempic, Exposing Seed Oils, Food For Fertility, and Macro Tracking W/ Shira Barlow MS, RD
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Harris to 500-500. The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys, it's Mari and you're listening to The Pursuit of Wellness.

Today on the show, we have Shira Barlow, also known as the food therapist. Shira is the resident nutritionist at Goop, author of the book, The Food Therapist and Nutrition Expert. She's also the host of the Dear Media daily show, Good Instincts.

Shira focuses on helping her clients develop a better relationship with food, making thoughtful choices and getting closer to their ultimate goals, all while enjoying delicious, healthy recipes. I'm food and nutrition obsessed as well. So I have so many questions with you.

And through my own journey, I have discovered just how powerful food can be. So I'm really excited to learn from you today. Shira, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. I was on your Daily Instinct show and it was so much fun. I loved having you and people loved that episode.

Really? Yeah, it was really inspiring. And I think you were so balanced in your approach and it was really helpful for people to know that. Thank you. So I always ask my guests this first question. If an Uber driver were to ask you what you do, what do you say? So I am a registered dietitian and I have a private practice where I help people uncomplicate their relationship with food. So it's funny because a lot of time when I first started out,

What I found was, and I studied biochem and organic chemistry, and it was all science-based, and I did a residency in Mount Sinai in New York, and it was all very clinical. But when I found that I started my private practice...

What happened was is most people knew what to do. They knew that they should be eating more thoughtfully and, you know, looking at portion sizes and stuff like that. But they weren't actually doing those things on a day-to-day basis. So it was about kind of figuring out what those roadblocks were and how to kind of sidestep them. Because, like, we're always going to have our stuff. It's not like we can ever...

Totally escape ourselves in that way. But figuring out like what makes us tick? How do we sidestep this to kind of get where we want to go? So that is one piece of it. And then I also now have good instincts, which I'm loving doing. So I do Monday through Friday. There were these little tiny episodes.

Monday through Thursday are these, they're like five minute episodes with just me. And then the Friday episodes are the interviews, which I did with you. So cool. And such a new concept. I don't know that I've seen that before. Yeah, it is a new format. And I think, you know, it's like a fun, especially like we're both on Dear Media, which is

And I think it's fun to have different formats where you could kind of just like plug in really quickly. And then something like this that's long form that people can really like get in, get cozy. Like to me, the idea of coming and going really deep with you is really fun. And then I think there's also a place for like just kind of like a quickie. Wonderful.

100%. Yeah. Sounds like there's a lot of psychology to what you do. Yeah, there is. Like you said, my book was The Food Therapist and I'm not a therapist and I don't have that training, but I do find that in the field that that really was the thing that people really kind of needed. Like they needed that food therapy piece. I want to go all the way back with you personally. When did you first discover food, health, all the things? So...

You know, it's interesting. I don't know that I've talked about this. So I was like a dancer and a figure skater and like body and weight and stuff was definitely like front of mind. And there was a huge focus on that. And it was before kind of there was any sensitivity around that. And then I think separately, I was like a really kind of insecure kid. And I also there was like some instability in my life. And I think I definitely used that.

food as a way to control things that I didn't have control over. So I definitely had like some restrictive tendencies that later on I was able to kind of drop. But I feel like back in the day, it was definitely queued up for me from like a young age.

As an athlete, how did your relationship with food evolve over time? Like, was it something you viewed as fuel or were you like, oh, I need to be a certain way to perform well? That's such a good question. So what happened was, so when I was very young, I...

was a dancer and a figure skater. And then in high school, I wound up being like a pretty competitive rower. And that kind of set me free in a way because I was so driven and I was so just into being like the best I could possibly be that you can't be like starving yourself and you can't be so restrictive. It just doesn't work. You're not going to be strong. So that really was kind of like the

for me, that was like my door open to like having a healthier relationship with food. But it wasn't until later, it is it kind of exactly what you said, which is that it was almost like food as fuel, like, oh, I need this much to be this fast or whatever. And then it wasn't until much later that I kind of then wove in the like,

enjoying food in a way that felt really like joyful and not, you know, just either like as fuel or something that you're trying to be a certain size. I feel like we all have a journey with food. Like I can relate to what you said in so many ways. Growing up, food just wasn't something I thought about. I enjoyed it. And I was honestly lucky to not have any major body image issues. But then going through my fitness journey, experiencing emotional eating,

gaining weight, losing control of my health, and then finding my fitness journey and finding control through food, I definitely had moments where I was terrified to eat the wrong thing. And having that relationship where it was like, oh, if I eat the wrong thing, I'm going to slip back to who I used to be.

And lately I have found so much joy in food and creating recipes and just realizing that food is really medicine. It's pretty insane how much you can do with food and how much you can heal.

That is so beautiful. And I completely agree. And the interesting thing, and I find myself talking about this all the time, which is the weird thing is that the thing with food, and I think the same with fitness too, for me at least, is that like the things that actually wind up feeling really good are the things that actually end up working. Because like you are coming from this place of like enjoying and not going overboard, but also not like going underboard and how hard

hard that is when you kind of like underdo it and then you feel like out of control in a different way. There's also a lot of freedom in knowing that you're not going to go overboard, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like I went through a phase where I was restricting a ton during the week and then on the weekend I would do whatever I wanted and I would overeat every time. Yeah. And now I'm in a place where like if I want to have a little chocolate, I'm going to have a little chocolate or I'm going to have a treat here or there. I'm going to do it.

But I'm just more balanced on a day-to-day basis and I never take it too far or underdo it. And I think there's freedom in that too. Oh, there's so much freedom in that. And I think that there's freedom in kind of like having this baseline where you feel really good and then...

Getting to a place where you're like, you know what, I'm going on vacation or whatever. Like it doesn't have to be perfect. Like I can kind of like buoy within a range that feels really good to me. And then I know how to get to where I feel like extra good. You know, like whatever that means to you. I think there's a huge freedom in just being like, I know how to do that. And then within that, you can pick and choose like what's worth it to you versus having those big swings. Yeah.

And having to, you know, then there's the whole shame of like it feels all ruined and all of that thing, which, you know, winds up being so counterproductive, but it's really hard to get out of.

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What would you say for anyone listening? How do they go about finding the diet that's right for them? Yeah. You know, I think that it is so interesting because it is so different for everyone. And there's like things, and I talk about this a lot lately, like there's things like

keto or intermittent fasting or whatever, which there is a good amount of research for some of those things that it can be helpful for hunger hormones and a lot of different things. And then on paper, it can wind up being really obsessive. And, you know, when you're only allowed to eat within a certain time range, I don't think that that's super healthy, especially for women. But then there's plenty of women who it works really well for. And I know for myself, like

I've definitely kind of accidentally done that on some days. And then you're like, oh, that felt really good. So I think like I think that people need to be really honest with themselves about what in the past has worked and what in the past hasn't worked and like where you could do yourself a favor in terms of like planning ahead or being really thoughtful in a different way that you haven't been able to in the past. Yeah.

So I don't know if that fully, I mean, I know that's kind of like a roundabout way to answer, but I really do think that first things first, kind of thinking about what has worked and what has not. Is that the first step you take with your clients when they come in? Yeah. You know, with all the clients, I want to know what their goals are. I want to know on a scale of one to 10, how motivated they are. And to be honest, like,

The very low end is obviously like concerning to me just because I like I don't want to waste someone's time. But also like when someone's like 10 out of 10, this is exactly like I'm so gung ho the whole thing. And the reality is, is like there are going to be other things that come up. So what I like to really understand is, yes, exactly what you're asking. I want to know what's really worked for you in the past, what hasn't. And like helping people figuring out what their personal roadblocks are and how to live with them.

Like, I don't even think it's realistic to be like, oh, we're never going to have roadblocks. But I think learning how to live with them and how to live within that framework is really the key. When people come in, could it be for any number of reasons or for any goals? Like, could it be, let's say, weight loss, but then maybe also mental health, for example? Yeah, totally. I mean, I think for a lot of people, it's all linked.

You know, the other thing, though, with it is that, and I've been talking about this a lot recently, which is that I think there are people, and maybe you can relate to this on some level, where they, like,

so specifically on one goal and it's like the physical piece. And they wind up like thinking that just because this has been the thing that they've really focused on this whole time, that like once that happens, everything else falls into place. They get the dream job and the relationship and the whole thing. And I think that there's sometimes that can be really disappointing on the other end. I almost think about it like sometimes like these goals almost keep us complacent

Yeah. Yeah.

I realized it just keeps going. Like the journey kind of never ends, hence like the pursuit of wellness. Because once I had, you know, for me, it was very much a mental journey too. So I lost weight, but at the same time, I completely changed who I was. Like I completely changed my work ethic. But then I came out of it and I was like, well, what's next? Like, what do I do?

want to do now and I think figuring out your passions within that journey and just letting it take you where the universe wants it to take you and channeling what you've learned into the next thing is so important yes exactly and now I remember what you were asking which is that and then also the piece of like people are people coming in just for one thing and I think they're not I mean I don't

I think even if they think they are, they're not. But there's also, to be honest, people that come in for weight gain and for muscle gain. And I've had a ton of performers and male like actor guys and those type of people who are on, you know, like your guy that are on a completely different trajectory. And so it's kind of fun sometimes to like have a mix. But my main is...

is this. How does it actually work? Because I've never worked with a nutritionist before. Do you set up a meal plan or a grocery list? How does that go? Well, I've done different things throughout my entire career, but what I find now, so I used to write out the whole thing. I would do like the meal plan and the grocery list and like, this is at this, this is at this place, this is at this place. And then I also used to have them, like people would want to go for menus with me and stuff like that.

And what I found is that when I was doing all the heavy lifting in that way, it almost made them less accountable in a way. And so now I find that, you know, we have this initial conversation and I go by...

what the people are doing in that moment to maintain where they are. And I'm never going to like throw a whole wrench into your plan. Like I'm never, if you're someone who's never eaten breakfast, like I don't get like, it's not, even if there's research, whatever, it's like, no one's forcing you to eat breakfast. So we kind of like reverse engineer it based on like what works for the person. And yeah. And so it kind of like,

it goes by what they're doing right now to maintain where they are and then I kind of give them suggestions and then we'll do follow-ups to see like what's working what's not and like my clients can text me and we can kind of troubleshoot from there love it yeah so it's a very personal relationship oh very very very I know you talk a lot about mindful eating yeah what does that mean to you it

That's a really good question. So to me, eating mindfully is having the ability to pause and be like, do I really want this thing? And I think it's interesting because a lot of people think the way we think about indulging, I think is really complicated. And I think it's really loaded. And people think that some people just have willpower and some people don't. And some people are super indulgent and some people aren't.

And it's not true. Everyone has the ability to flex that muscle. And it's not always choosing the broccoli over the donut or whatever, you know, like it's a really like silly example, but you know what I mean? It's, but it is having the ability to be like, do I really want this thing? And if so, like, I'm going to really enjoy it and sit with it. And,

And actually and not do the thing of like, oh, my God, I hate that I ate this. And now it's all ruined because, like, you know, and I think we've talked about this before, too, where it's like that never feels good and it never works. So, like, if you want the thing, have the thing. But, like, having that, like, second thought of, like, do I want this? And if you do, then, like, I'm the biggest advocate for that.

Yeah. And I think also, like you said, it's a muscle and it takes practice. It does. Because I remember being in the place where I felt like I didn't have the choice. Like I felt like I didn't even know if I wanted it or not, or I would go ahead and without thinking about it, like eat a whole pint of ice cream while I was watching the TV or order a whole pizza or whatever I was doing.

And now I've almost been doing it for so long that I know for sure whether or not I really want something. Yes. And I've also changed my perception of indulgence, I would say. Oh, how so? Like, to me, having a whole pint of ice cream...

isn't worth it because I just know how I'm going to feel in terms of the sugar. Yeah. And like my brain fog and my stomach will hurt and all of those things don't make it worth it. But having a small bowl of ice cream is worth it to me because I'm enjoying it, but it's not going to ruin how I feel the next day.

I love that so much. And that's exactly it. Because the reality is we're grownups and we could have as much ice cream as we want, but it actually doesn't feel great to do that. And so I think it is having that ability to be like, of course I could do this, but do I even really want? Mm-hmm.

All of that. And I do think coming from this place of like wanting to feel really good and wanting like your next day self and even like a couple hours from now self to feel really good. And how do you operate from that place?

Do you find that... I find that the years I've been eating whole healthy foods, I crave them now. Like when I think about my dream dinner, it's like salmon and kale salad. Like that would have never have been me back in the day, but now that's what I look forward to. Yeah. No, it's a huge thing because...

I mean, when something feels really good, it's a lot easier to keep doing that. And that's why I really, I feel really strongly about people putting some thought into their food. Like, it's not like you have to cook every meal and meal prep everything, but like, don't have it be flaccid steamed vegetables and like rubbery chicken breast. Like, put some flavor in it, make it a little special. It doesn't have to take a ton of time. But,

But, you know, have it be that. So it actually does feel good because when it feels good, you're so much more motivated to keep going. Totally. Do you have any tangible tips for people listening on how they can eat more mindfully? Like three suggestions. Yes. Okay. This sounds a little kooky, but I feel really strongly about it. So one of the first things that you could do is eat with your non-dominant hand.

So like if you're right-handed, eat with your left hand. And like honestly, okay, if you're out and about, like, you know, maybe suit, like, you know, there's certain things that might not be the thing. But I do think there's this thing where we almost go into autopilot while we're eating and we're not paying attention. And whether it's just like we're just not paying attention and we're just in our own heads about everything else or we're like eating in front of a screen or something like that, it's really hard to pay attention to what you're eating while you're eating it. Yeah.

And there's all this talk about like mindfulness and, you know, like meditation practices and all those, which are amazing. And I think they're amazing. But I almost think that they are, it's hard to connect to that if you're not kind of from that world and that doesn't feel super realistic for you. So I do find that one way is eating with your non-dominant hand. Another, and I talk about this all

all the time is putting your food on a plate or like a little dish. Like if you're having your little chocolate, it's so easy to like eat over the sink and whatever, but to like literally put it on a dish because it helps you visualize it and it helps it like feel real. There was all this research and I talked about this in my book where, um,

we encode meal memories when we're paying attention to what we're eating while we're eating. So it actually like logs and we feel more full after. But if we're eating like in front of the TV and we're not really paying attention, those people in the studies ate way more and felt less full. And it makes sense because you're just like not paying attention. So like putting it on a plate. And then the third, I would honestly say like if you can eat with your hands.

there's something really tactile and like you're able to connect with the food. I think there's just like so much with technology and everything that kind of like separates us from the process. I think cooking can be really helpful for that reason. And I think we talked about this, how meditative it can be to like do one thing at a time if you can. And of course, that's not always realistic, but I think when you can, those things can be helpful.

I think cooking is huge. Such a good tip because you are involved in every step of what you're making and you're kind of in control of how good it tastes. When I went gluten and dairy free recently for my skin, I found that

I just had so much more fun with the recipe because I was like, oh, OK, I need to make this gluten free and dairy free, but still taste amazing. So I was like playing around with like coconut cream and spices and things that had so much flavor. And it just made me so much more appreciative of the actual meal. You can get creative with it. Like only you know what you love and you can put your own little spin on it that you're going to be so into. Sometimes you're at a restaurant, you're like, oh, this would be perfect if it didn't have X, Y or if it had this.

But yeah, I think it can be really helpful for like connecting back to yourself and connecting to the food.

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B-L-O-O-M-N-U dot com. Use code POW, P-O-W. Enjoy. What would you say mindless eating looks like? I would say it is not taking that pause. It can be, you know, like eating in front of a TV or in front of your computer. And I actually want

To say, though, because I'm such a realist and I live in the real world and I'm sometimes really bit like tonight, I'm going to be really busy writing. And so, like, I don't know, there's a chance that, like, I kind of have my stuff and I'm kind of like in front of my laptop. And I do think I'll take a minute to eat without.

without writing in front of it. But I do think that there are those times where you don't really have the ability to like take all the time that you need. But unfortunately, those things make it really hard to connect to what you're eating while you're eating. And then it's really hard to listen to like your hunger cues. And so I find that like

when in doubt, doing things that you can to pay attention to what you're eating while you're eating. And then in a very realistic way, knowing those times that you're not going to be able to be super mindful and like doing yourself a favor ahead of time. So like pre-portioning the thing, knowing that it might, you know, it's just going to be a different experience, but like being honest with yourself about the fact that you might not feel as like

as great and dialed in as you would if you were paying a ton of attention. Yeah. And I think that's a great point. Even this morning, I found myself on my phone editing a video while I was eating breakfast, which I know I shouldn't do. And you look up and the food's gone and you didn't get to enjoy it. Exactly. And I feel like we're

We're all so busy, but there's always time. And I think it's actually an act of self-love. I think so too. To give yourself that moment to have that meal. I think so too. Because it really isn't that big a deal. It's not that much time. And again, sometimes it's crazy. Sometimes it's wild. I know with like my mom clients with like young kids at home, it's really hard sometimes. Yeah. But when you can, taking the even like a 10-minute break

can make a really big difference so that you can actually enjoy it and feel more full by that. You recently became a mother, correct? Yes. Well, Oliver's four now, but yes. Wow. Yes. So how do you incorporate him into your healthy lifestyle?

So, you know, it's really interesting. There's been so much with motherhood where you're like, oh, I'm going to do it this way in this specific way. And then you have kids who are like, oh, right. That's harder in actuality. But, you know, when Oliver was little, he ate everything I ate and it was just like healthy, healthy, healthy, healthy.

And I was really committed to him. I think there is something that can happen with like a sweetness threshold where if kids are introduced to sugar really early, then that's like what they crave because, I mean, biologically, that is what we crave. So I was so specific about it. But then it was so funny. And, you know, I like keep all the like clean stuff in my house. And then it was hilarious.

because we'd go to the park and I would see him like eat like Pringle crumbs off the ground at the park, you know? So like you realize that you can only control so much. Yeah. And that's probably for the best. So I do my best to have like really good options at home and like keep kind of junk out. Like there's tons of treat, like there's stuff, like fun stuff, but it's not like junky with like ingredients that I would feel bad about. But I'm also, and people are,

kind of surprised by this, but I'm a lot less uptight about that. Like for Halloween, for example, I mean, there are ingredients in some of the candy that's just like gross and like not good for you, whatever. And I also like for me, it was so important to be like, OK, this is like the one, you know, it's like this and Valentine's Day, whatever you get kind of like gross stuff, you enjoy it. How bad could it be? But it's so funny because I think and I think a lot of things

You really have to listen to your gut. I feel like as a mom or a parent, like figuring out what's right, like only you know what's right for you and your family. Yeah. So figuring that out. And then the other thing is I try really hard and it's not always possible, but to not reward with treats. So to not be like, you've been so good, you get X or you've been so bad, you don't get X. Right.

Right. And it's really hard because kids are really motivated by sugar and like it doesn't always happen. But I do find that later on people and I call it like moral licensing and loopholes. People will be like, oh, I've had like the worst day. I deserve X or I've been so good. I answered all my emails and got all my work done. I deserve X. And it's not that it's not a matter of vice and virtue.

It's just that it doesn't have to do with that. Like if you really want the thing, have the thing, put it on a plate, enjoy it so much. But it doesn't have anything to do with like ethics. I love that. I think using food as a reward is kind of confusing, actually. Yeah. Do you have any specific brand snacks that you recommend for mothers listening? Yeah. You know what is the brand that comes to mind, which is

Like, I don't know why, but if you roll up to the park with this, the kids are good. Like the toddlers get crazy about it. And I also like it too is the lesser evil. Oh, popcorn. The popcorn. They also have these like they're like these paleo coconut puffs that like I love the kids love. That was a biggie. The kids love Asha pop.

Oh, I've seen those. These are like adult snacks. These are adult snacks that kids are also down with. And like when you go to the park, you got to bring, you know. Do you think it's because they're LA kids? Probably, yes. No, those are very like, you know, I'm probably going to get some eye rolls for those. But I think that there's a lot of great options now. Things that are like really clean, but don't taste that way. And that's kind of always been my goal. Like I don't want to be that mom that's like,

here's a rice cake and an apple. And that's it. You know, like I want it to be fun and I want there to be an exploration with food and flavor and all of that. Does he help you with cooking? He loves to cook. That's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I do find that when they get in there, there is more, like I feel like he eats more and is a little more adventurous and all that because he has like so many questions about it and the process and stuff like that. Do you feel like

Social media has increased the amount of bad relationships that people have with food, or do you feel like people actually have more access to food education now? That's so interesting. I think it's probably a mix. I mean, I do find it is hard to...

out there with people doing their like, this is what I eat in a day when you kind of like, no, that's not. I think that can be confusing for people. And I think now with like all the ozempic stuff, that can be really confusing for people. Wait, OK, what is ozempic? Oh, OK. So ozempic is a drug that's out now that was approved for weight loss in people with diabetes. And it actually was also approved for people who have like comorbidities

complications, I should say, with being obese or overweight. But a lot of celebrities in LA and New York and people have been using it to lose a lot of weight. And you've probably seen a lot of people that are notable people that all of a sudden have dropped a ton of weight really quickly. And I think the thing that's really... I did a whole episode about it, and it was really about this idea that I have concerns because it's a very new drug, and it basically...

It makes you produce more insulin and makes all those receptors more sensitive to that. So I think that if you're overdoing that day after day after day after day, you could kind of like mess with some of the processes. That's like a big concern of mine. There are also very new drugs that we don't know like the long term effects of.

And then at the same time, like I understand I have celebrity clients who get like dragged by the media, by like, you know, pictures and all the things. And I know that there's so much pressure. And so everyone has to choose for themselves. But I do appreciate and I understand why people don't. But like when people are really open and honest about that, because if you're taking Ozempic and you've dropped like 60 pounds in a really short amount of time and my client has been doing it the slow and steady way, like,

the results are going to look a lot different, but it makes you feel like crap if you don't know that someone is, you know, doing the other thing. It's the same thing with plastic surgery, which like, no,

No problem with it. Do what works for you. But it is always like super refreshing when people are really open about it. I think transparency is so important. I mean, we were just talking about the episode I did with Liver King. Yeah. His transparency with steroids. My husband, Greg, was mentioning how there are celebrities like Wolverine and all these men that we know are on steroids, but they don't talk about it. Yeah. But for some reason, they're celebrated. But Liver King is put down because he...

open about it. I think it's interesting. Yeah. Well, I mean, we hold people to these really high standards and then we get mad at them for being human. And I think a lot of people and I know just like from personal experience with clients, like people feel like they're backed into a place where they have no, you know, it's like you tear down my body, then you tear me down for doing X, Y and Z. Like I don't get like, let me live. Yeah. So I guess to answer your question, I do feel like

I don't know. It's hard out there with the filters and the editing and all of that. There's no way that that... I mean, I can't imagine being a young girl right now. I always say that. I cannot imagine growing up on social media. I would have a really hard time. Yeah.

And at the same time, there are really positive voices and people who are, you know, just like this is what works for me. And I think there is our trends going now where it's like, listen to your body. And this is how I've found intuitive eating. And this is how people like you who are like, listen, I've run the whole gamut. And like what works actually feels really good. And it's really like kind and compassionate to yourself. Yeah. So I think it's probably both. What do you think?

I think it's both too. I think there's just more noise in general. Like, as you said, the unrealistic what I eat in a day is... And then the Ozempic. And then there's people like us who talk about things like this. And in reality, I always say there's no shortcut to being healthy. I...

whatever that drug is doesn't sound safe to me in any way, shape or form. And I feel like in terms of longevity and being healthy into your 80s and 90s, that just requires hard work and eating whole foods and educating yourself. Like,

That's scary to me. And honestly, I've been hearing about it even on photo shoot sets and things like that. So I think it's really starting to get out there. But as you just said, I could not be a teenage girl in this environment. I know. I feel really protective of them. Yeah, I know. I know. It's scary because it's got to be so hard. I mean, I remember how hard it was just like regular. And we didn't even have I mean, I didn't have Instagram till I was a senior in college.

Right, right, right. No, there was definitely no Instagram. There was, not to like totally age myself, but there was, I mean, I think that when I was a freshman in college, it was the first year of Facebook.

Yeah. Or like the first year that Facebook went outside Stanford or wherever. I was in high school and I remember the albums. Yes, of course. And like everyone's like, I mean, yeah, it was such a thing. And I mean, it was so different then because there wasn't like the whole posing and editing and whatever. Like if you look at those pictures, we're all just like no one has angle. No one like knows that. I still don't. But you know what I mean? Like there was just so like you're not thinking about, oh, it's going to live on the Internet and like a

people are going to see it. You're just like, hey, I'm with my friends like cheese. But I also feel like I didn't know anything about food back then. Right. And now when I'm maybe it's just my for you page. But on TikTok, I get served new healthy recipes every other video. Yeah. And the thing with that, which is really cool, I think that that's really cool. And I would have loved like when I was in college, if there was an air fryer like I remember I

I had a rice cooker in college that I like cooked. I was like, you guys, you can cook things other than rice. Like I used it kind of like a slow cooker. What? Yeah. But like an air, to me, an air fryer is like, by the way. Next level. Next level. You can cook something out. You can cook up a veggie that like, I mean, I've been doing Brussels sprouts recently, but like I'll shave

the leaves off the thing and they get crisped up like chips. I mean, it's delicious. Like as a little snack, you could like do like a chicken sauce. I mean, it's so easy. But the reality is like, I mean, for a college kid, that's amazing. And I do like I just saw there was this cute girl who was doing this like

She was doing almost like a banana split. So she air fried a banana and then she put like peanut butter in it and some like imagine putting like who gems in there and having like a coconut cream. Yes. So I mean, like I feel like you can get really innovative and it's not that hard and it's not expensive. And so that is really exciting. But I do think that there's a flip side to that, which is that like people get so overwhelmed with how many recipes that there are that they just don't even try. Right. Right.

I was microwaving hot dogs in college and eating them without buns. Yeah, of course. That was my regular diet. So I would have loved an air fryer. Yeah, would have loved an air fryer. Probably would have put hot dogs in there still. Yeah, of course. Anyways. I do a chicken sausage. It's like a... I mean, it's basically the same thing. What brand chicken sausage do you like? I think... So, okay. So there's Applegate Farms, Sweet Italian, which isn't sweet and doesn't have sugar, which I love. I hate... Can I just say that? I hate...

hate when people put sweetener in sausage. Me too. Gross. It doesn't belong in there. It's not right. Exactly. I don't want I also don't want any sweeteners ever in my vegetable like when people will put like a maple on a carrot or something. I'm like Or even salmon. Disgust Oh no I know with like the Honey? Yes. Okay.

I'm glad you agree with me because is this an American thing? Yeah, totally. They put sugar on everything. No, I know. It's like if you have to ask and it's one of those things where it's like it doesn't belong in there. It's like save it for the dark chocolate. Save it for the thing that actually is meant to be sweet. Thank you. Yeah. Sweetener does not belong in sausage. No. We're done with that. We're done with that. Also, Belinsky's. I was going to say Belinsky's. And then there's another one called Bubby's, I think. Oh, Bubby's. Or is it Bubby's? Maybe that's the sauerkraut. That's sauerkraut. I have that. There's one. Oh, Seymour.

Ooh. Seymour. Okay, I've got to check that out. Yeah, Seymour. I'm like big into sausages. Me too. Because it literally like you could, for me, it's like you air fry a sausage. You could have that with like breakfast. You can also like cut that up, put it in like cauliflower rice with like pesto and you have like a bowl. Oh.

You could, I also will take like romaine spears and I'll like do it and I'll kind of like do it extra high and I'll put like kraut and mustard and like make it kind of like a. I'm coming to your house. Yeah, I'm like, I need shit. That sounds amazing. Okay, you're very into the same food as me, I can tell. Yes, yes. And it's like, it's so easy. Now. Yes. To end the episode, I want to do a fan Q&A. Okay, great. The fans had a lot of questions for you. And honestly, I want to know the answers to this. Okay, wonderful.

Everyone's going to laugh when I say this because I have a strong opinion about this one. Okay. Thoughts on seed oils. Okay. Yeah. So, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So they can be inflammatory. Like it is true. They can be inflammatory for sure. Fact.

Like there's research, all the things. And then at the same time, I do think you have to kind of pick your battles with some of the things. Like I'm not, it's the same thing. I just did an episode where I was like talking about like hormone disruptors and all these chemicals and stuff. And like, if you want to go into a bubble, like you might get like afraid of receipts, which have like gross chemicals on them and whatever. I'm terrified of receipts. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's,

But like that's the thing. So it's like, yes, I avoid seed oils. I don't I like wouldn't choose to have them in my stuff. And then at the same time, like if you're out and about at a restaurant, you're probably most likely encountering them. And as long as it's not like your main thing and you're like picking and choosing wisely, then I think.

You know. What's the worst one? Oh. Canola. Tell me it's canola. Yeah, it's canola. We don't use canola oil. Like it's just a cheap oil. I'm triggered by canola oil. Yeah, it's gross. Like it is gross. And like I can't imagine how, like if you just like,

took a little like lick. It would probably just taste like something that almost. Have you seen it get made? No. It looks like tar. Does it? Yeah. Look up canola oil process. It's vile. No, canola oil is really gross. And a lot of these things are just like cheap things to make. So they become this thing. It's a business. It's a business. What oils do you recommend people use? I love olive oil. I like cook all my stuff in olive oil. A lot of people will be like, oh my

Oh, my God. The smoke point. All of that. Totally. Avocado oil is amazing. I don't really cook a bunch with coconut oil, but like I would bake with coconut oil. Yeah, totally. A great one. Great one. So it's like, you know, love ghee. He's a big fan of ghee. Is it dairy? No. So it's been processed. The dairy has been processed out of it. So it starts off as ghee.

dairy product, but that ends up being totally like well received by people with

dairy allergies. It tastes just like butter. Oh, it's I honestly think it's nicer. I do, too. It's really good. Yeah, I love like to me in the morning when I make like Oliver's like French toast or pancakes or whatever, I'm doing that in ghee. Ah, such a good tip for kids. Actually, I feel like ghee would be great. Yeah. Not that I have kids, but one day I'm collecting all the tips. Yeah. Best foods for fertility. Oh, you know, it's so interesting. There's so much

There's so much out there. My tip for fertility would be to do your best to control blood sugar, which means like not having huge surges in blood sugar and then huge surges in insulin, because then that affects all your other hormones. So I think that, you know, focusing on like protein and fat and fiber with meals, and it doesn't mean you can't have like the carbs and stuff like that. But I do think that

doing your best to like have a steady blood sugar balance is really helpful. Do you ever recommend people wear those glucose monitors? You know, it's a really good question. What I have found with the glucose monitors is that they can be really helpful in a very acute short term way to show people like what a huge carb meal can do. And it kind of like really visualize that. But I do feel and I almost feel like you and I talked about this a little bit where I think people can

get a little obsessive with the numbers. 100%. And then it becomes this thing where they're like hyper focusing on it and it can be too much. But I do think that if you're someone who's like, I don't, I wouldn't know how to control blood sugar and I don't know what my blood sugar would look like. It definitely could be a really interesting experiment, but I don't think long-term it's the way to go. Thoughts on eating dessert every night?

I guess it kind of depends like how much. Like to me, like a couple of squares of dark chocolate every day or like building that into your day, something like that that's like sensible. It feels totally doable. And in fact, I actually like really recommend it because then you don't feel the need to like go super overboard. And it's funny because like when we talk about I'm so like if you really want the thing, put it on a plate, enjoy it. And then at the same time, if your goals are really important to you, you of course can't like do

do that. It can't be worth it to you every day. Yeah. So I think it kind of depends what the dessert is, but there's plenty of like really low sugar, like sensible things like that, like a like chocolate and peanut butter and stuff like that, that like is dessert to me and I think is not just healthy, but like actually helps the process.

100%. Yeah. I have four squares of hue hazelnut butter chocolate every night. I love that. In my bed. Oh, I know. But that's okay. So you know how you said after? Oh, yeah. But I get out of the bed. Yeah. But you know how you said like put things on a plate? Yes.

For me, bringing it to my bed. That's your decadent thing. Yeah. You know what? That's my moment. But see, I think that like we have to do what works for us. So like, I think it is good. I think especially if you were having like something super snackable, like a thing that could be in a big package or something like that. But if you have your four squares or like,

pre-portioned out and you're like bringing it into bed and you're enjoying it and it's a little quirky of you and I like that about you my husband is disgusted I woke up the other day with chocolate melted into my chest oh my god by the way I love you for saying that I

I love you for saying that. I feel like the people are going to be like, I knew I loved her. Greg was disgusted. He's like, honey? Yeah, he was like, what's going on? Even Fia is like a little grossed out by me at this point. I think I love you for saying that. I think that's wonderful. Thanks. Yeah. I'm a huge chocolate stan. You're not just one thing. You're many things. Yeah, I'm a Gemini. Yeah, yes. Okay, food tips for ADHD. Okay.

The reality is that blood sugar affects hormones, which affects everything else, like all these cascading processes in the body. So there's not like one thing that you're going to like be able to have specifically for focus. But I do think getting out of a place where you're like driving up

blood sugar driving up insulin than having these crashes with cortisol can be kind of like chaotic and make you feel like, oh, I'm going to like stop what I'm doing and go snack and stuff like that. So I think the more balanced you can be with protein and fat and fiber at meals, especially like high carbohydrate meals is going to be helpful. I would say even if you're listening and you have a mood disorder, I mean, I have BPD and when it was really bad, I kind of went keto for a little bit and it was really helpful. I could totally see that because

sugar triggers the same pleasure center in the brain as drugs and alcohol. So it can kind of be this addictive thing that then it's like you're not getting the same dopamine hit, like you're searching, searching, searching. So I do think getting out of that place where like you can decrease your sweetness threshold and it just you're not so like looking for that next hit. Lastly, do you think it's possible to have a good relationship with food while tracking macros?

Yeah, I think that tracking macros...

is something that is helpful in the, like, I think it is more helpful in the short term to visualize what a serving of rice looks like. What a serving of sweet potato looks like. What a serving of X looks like. So that you can then just visualize it and you're not having to think about it all the time. I do think when you're counting macros all the time and you're thinking about food all the time, it can be obsessive. But I do think it's helpful to like know what servings are. And so that you're like out and about and you can kind of,

visualize that's pretty much how I used it as well I used it to learn what a fat was what a carb was I didn't even know like how many calories were in anything right I had no understanding of it so I do think it's a good tool yes but if you notice the obsession coming in maybe

Maybe it's time to let go of the fitness pal. Exactly. And that's the thing about being really honest with yourself. And like for some people, and you know, I think sometimes with dudes who like it's not that complicated and they're like, whatever, I'm just, you know, like it's not that complicated. And they're just like, you know, calories and calories. I mean, I don't love that mentality.

And I have guy clients too. And I have plenty of guy clients who have not felt that way. But I do feel like sometimes, you know, if it's not going to get obsessive and that's just like what you do and it feels good, sure. But I feel like especially for most women, that's not going to work out long term because it's just so hard not to get obsessive. And it doesn't feel good. And you wind up thinking about food all the time. Okay.

Agreed. I've been there and it's not fun. So there's a time and a place for everything. I agree. Now it's time for the question we ask every guest. I started this podcast because I believe everyone's pursuit of wellness looks different. What does wellness mean to you? I think wellness to me means like feeling good in all aspects, not just, I think there's a trend now for like

saying no to things that don't work for you and to like stop people pleasing and to like be really thoughtful about the way you want to move through your day and the way you want to interact with people. And it's so beyond just like the food you're eating. And I think with the food, it's being really honest with yourself about like where, what season you're in. Because I think the reality is sometimes you're like super dialed in and you're really like feeling it. And then there are other seasons where you're just kind of like

listen, I'm happy being like a little above what would normally feel good to me. And I'm just going to honor this, whether it's you just had a baby or a breakup or it's the holidays or something like that. Having the confidence, like we were saying earlier, to like know that you can get back to where you want to be, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.

And I think with fitness, especially for me, it's like coming at it from a place of joy and like moving my body in a way that it's not like because I do come from that like athlete world where it's just like grinding into the ground of just like the things that feel like a celebration of like movement. I think that's what.

It means to me. Amazing answer. I loved all of that. Thank you. Where can people find you online and listen to your show? So the show is Good Instincts. It's wherever you get your podcasts. It's a Dear Media production. And I am Shira underscore RD. Thank you, Shira. This was amazing. Thank you so much. This was really fun.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next. I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our bloom greens to. Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week.

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