Liver King Gets Vulnerable: Steroid Use, Mental Health, Psychedelics & Healing From Trauma
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys, it's Mari and you're listening to The Pursuit of Wellness.

What's up, guys? It's Mari. Welcome back to the Pursuit of Wellness. Today, our guest is Liver King, which you know if you've clicked on this episode. Now, this is quite a controversial person. When I posted about Liver King on my story, I gave a sneak peek to our interview. I had a lot of negative feedback, particularly from people who were

potentially due to his recent controversy involving steroids. Now, I wanted to come on here and give a little pre-intro before we hop into the episode and say...

This podcast is not about bringing people on that I agree with 100% of the time. It's about bringing people on to hear new perspectives, learn and grow. I wanted to give Liver King a chance to talk about the controversy and hear his perspective. I wanted to hear from someone who lives life differently than us. And I think it's important that we open our ears to

And I think it's important that we get okay with disagreeing and being open to different perspectives. I happen to be the first female to ever interview liver King, which I thought was pretty special and unique.

This is definitely going to be a new audience for liver King. You guys may have seen him on Tik TOK or Instagram, but I don't think a ton of people listening to me will know his full story. So I think that is a very interesting element to this interview. I also just wanted to say that I did bring on my husband, Greg, to this episode. He is a big fan.

fan of liver king a longtime follower of liver king and generally knows a ton about his lifestyle so i really wanted to have his perspective and i know he had some questions he personally wanted answered as well so with that said let's hop into the episode keep an open mind i think you guys will be very surprised

Hi guys, my name is Sarah Nicole and I am the host of the Papaya Podcast, where each week we dish out some sweetness mixed in with some seeds of wisdom all through candid conversations in a very real and tangible way. I want everyone to know that they're not alone and that we share in these experiences called life. And sometimes when we get to know somebody else's story, it changes ours a little bit as well. So I want you to tune in with us on Mondays.

subscribe, rate and review it and keep these conversations going with us. You can tune in behind the scenes at the papaya podcast and the birds with fire on Instagram as well. Can't wait to see you next week. Hey guys, today we have a very unexpected, very special guest. Someone who has taken the internet by storm liver King.

Also joined in the studio by Liver Queen, here to support. Liver King, you have become a big name in our household ever since you joined social media. My husband happens to be a primal.

And I might be a primal too, I think, after today. Many of our listeners are women who may have heard of you and seen you, but don't know your full story or message. Today, I want to go beyond the jacked guy who eats organs and go deep on who you are, what you stand for, and some of the misconceptions that the listeners may have about you. Liver King, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. You know, when I say thank you so much, I just want to explain like why I'm so grateful because

Because opportunities like this to talk about this, this is why I exist, right? This is my real why in the world is just to acknowledge how desperately people are hurting and hating their lives today. I know what that feels like. I know that you know.

Yes.

Shall we start with a little appetizer? We need to. Okay. Let's break the ice. These are the best things that I know to give. These are my favorite presents. So I try and bring this to anyone and everywhere I go. Okay. And so the first thing is some raw liver. I know you're already getting some liver in your life. Yep. I take the capsules every day. You do it every day? Every day, two a day. And how about you? How often do you take it?

I'll eat liver. I love it. I eat liver. So I'll supplement if we're on the road or whatever it may be. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's the same here. Like a lot of people, and I'm sure we may get in talking about supplement stuff. I'm like, you know, when I'm traveling, I actually take a whole lot more supplements with me, but let's start with some raw liver then. Okay. Let's eat some raw liver with the liver keg.

Okay. Just with the hands. That's primal. You know, I like how you said we got a true primal here and we may potentially have another primal. I mean, I bet you're a lot more primal than what you may give yourself credit for. I think I'm more primal than people expect. There were years where Mari's breakfast was sausage and steak. Meat. I love meat. Mari's pretty carnivore. I'm going for it. Yes, let's do it. Let's get some. This is my breakfast. I really don't mind it. That's a quality sushi. It's actually...

It's good. It's not too bad, right? No. I think a lot of people are expecting something different. And again, we're eating it without anything. Imagine just putting a little salt on there or even a drop or two of maple syrup. I

I've heard you do that. Oh God, I love it. I call it candied liver. I mean, so good. Thank God I have liver king chef Lionel because I mean, he flies it out. It's partially frozen, like a frozen cherry is the consistency, a little bit of salt, a little bit of maple syrup, and he'll even drizzle just a little bit of olive oil on there. And there's like this caramel flavor to it.

And it's incredible for you. And so just eating it like this, you know, for you to say not too bad, right? You could do this every day. What do you think about olive oil? Because we love olive oil in our house. You know, it's really interesting. One of my best friends in the world is Paul Saladino. He's the carnivore MD. I'm over here drizzling olive oil into something, right? And he goes, what are you doing?

So what am I doing? You know what? I'm hedging a little bit. That's what I'm doing. Because I've seen some of the data. And I don't think all the data can be that wrong. And you know what? I like how it tastes. And I believe that polyphenols are actually a thing. And you know what? I'm just going to hedge a little bit. I'm not predominantly eating. My fats are predominantly saturated. My fats are overwhelmingly animal fats. But am I going to have a little bit of olive oil? Absolutely. Absolutely.

I drench my food in olive oil, so I'm glad you agree with that. Yeah. Do you want us to try the rest before we continue? Yes, absolutely. Let's move on to the raw bone marrow. Have you ever had raw bone marrow before? Have I? Not raw. Definitely not raw. Our dog eats a lot of raw bone marrow, but I don't know about us. That looks like crap. It doesn't taste like crap. Okay. Oh. It's a little waxy. Again, for me, it's doable for sure. Yeah.

You need the water, right? That one's scaring me a little bit. A little waxing. Is that because of the flavor or the texture or both? I think it's the texture. Yeah. Yeah. Is that mostly fat?

Overwhelming fat, yeah. But I'm not throwing up. And let me tell you this. The cooler it is, the more waxy and less flavorful it is. So right out of the cow, if you take a cow or take any animal, and it's about 9,800 degrees, it's runny, it's rich, it's succulent, it's incredible. You've had it cooked probably, right? Yeah. Yeah.

It's like that in nature. So this isn't really like how it exists in nature. So I'm not a big fan of really overheating it. I don't want to go over 120 degrees or so, but liver king chef Lionel will fly it in at about, he keeps it at about 95, 97 degrees for me. Wow. And I can just slurp it out. It's kind of like duck fat when it solidifies. Yeah, but you're saying you don't cook with it. No.

We don't cook with it. Yeah, you wouldn't cook with it. Yeah, we don't. But I would say again, like, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If you can bring the nose to tail nourishment into your life, if you want to cook liver with, you know, some onions and some ghee, go do that, right? You got to get this back into your life. And so I don't care how people do it. I try and tell everyone, if you can't go on a hunt, if you have that kind of connection with the land and the animal, it changes everything. To be there for the animal's last breath.

you'll never look at taking an animal or eating or consuming it mindlessly ever again. So if you can do that, do that. If you can't do that, go to the butcher. Get to know this other human being. Look him in the eye, shake his hand. Get to know where your food is coming from. We've lost touch with this. If you can't do that, sure, go to an online ranch or go to a grocery store and procure this stuff. And again, I wish we could all have it raw. We have almost all of our organs and glands raw. We also have some cooked liver pate. Her mom makes it. Liver Queen's mom makes it, which is...

The best Polish potty you ever had. We got to bring you guys some of that. Yeah. Please. We love that. So this is sort of the hierarchy that I talk about, right? You got to get it in your life. And if you're only going to do it because it doesn't count if you can't do it consistently. Right. So if you can do it consistently and you got to cook it, fine, cook it. Right. If you want to use bone marrow to cook with, I might be thinking, oh, my gosh, what are you doing? Yeah.

But still, you're getting it in your life. Yeah. So is it okay if we try the last one? Yeah. I would love to. Guys, just for anyone who can't see right now, this is testicle, right? Raw testicle. Raw testicle. Starting my Friday off on a good note. Let's get it. Are you chilling? Mm-hmm. My eyes are closed, so I'm getting the full experience. This one's a first. I'm surprised that's a first for you. I only say that because you're a full-on primal. I don't mean to listen.

A lot of people give me credit for being funny. I don't think I'm that funny. I really meant that literally because you're a primal and you eat this way. But the thing is, if you look at how modern day primitive culture thrives when they take an animal, some of the first things they go for is the bone marrow and the liver first. They would never let testicles go to waste. What they end up feeding to the dogs and the birds is the muscle meat, but they consume all of this stuff. Animals in the wild do the same thing. That was probably my favorite of

the three. Really? Yeah. That's so funny. I guess I'm a testicle kind of person. I guess you like those. I don't know what to say. I want to share one thing about this and then we can move on. Liver King Chef Lionel makes a testicle ceviche. If you add some cilantro, some lime sauce to this, everyone that comes over and tastes it, we had this incredible influence over yesterday. We got to spend the day with this giant. He had the opportunity to have the testicle ceviche and it blew his mind. It's like a conch, right? It reminds me of conch actually. It's really good. I could see that with a little citrus.

Cool. And I'll tell you what, since we've been talking about some of this stuff, sometimes it's hard to go to the ranch and actually get it because so many people are buying it today. But it's such validation to me. I'm like, this is an important message to share. People are getting in the nutrition when they were otherwise malnourished and the lights are coming on and they're telling everybody about it. So that's why I'm so stoked to be able to share this. Thank you for trying it. Thank you for bringing it. Chef Lionel, shout out to you. This was incredible. So-

I ask all of my guests this question, and I don't know if you guys take Ubers, honestly. Have you ever taken an Uber? We have before. Okay, good. If an Uber driver were to ask you what you do...

What do you say? I'm the CEO of the ancestral lifestyle. I always start with that. I make sure that when I say that, OK, what does that mean? Right. And so I very quickly transition to my name is Liver King because liver is king. Mr. Uber driver or whomever else I'm talking to, you're probably never going to remember anything about this guy. Right. But please remember one thing. The name is Liver King because liver is king. If there's one thing you can do to change your life, it's start getting liver into your life.

Now, like there's nine ancestral tenets, sleep, eat, move, shield, connect, cold, sun, fight, and bond. That's a lot. So I'm going to tell the Uber driver, hey, remember these nine things, right? He's not going to execute on anything. But if you just remember the name is liver king because liver is king. This is not about calling myself a king, right? I don't need this thing. You're like, I have a beautiful family. I feel like, you know, everyone talks about the science of achievement, the art of fulfillment. My life is so fulfilled because I have this incredible family. Yeah.

So I just want the Uber driver to know liver is king. So if you can start eating liver and then normally they feel the difference, they feel the drive, the determination, the energy, the currency of life. And then they say that liver guy's not a total idiot. I'm gonna start eating liver. What else does he know? And so I try and tell everybody, please tune into the Instagram stories,

Because you're going to get a good morning primals message, reminder every day that we need to stack the sun and the earth. You need to get early morning sun through the eyes, on the face, on the skin. You need to get your bare feet connected, anchored, grounded. These are free things accessible to everybody. It's going to set up your best sleep. It's going to get you in harmony, your connection with the earth. When's the last time you had your shit? We're close to the beach. Yeah. So you probably have been connected to the earth with your bare feet recently, haven't you? He'll walk around the neighborhood barefoot. It's one of the reasons we moved here.

is we felt like in other states with the weather not permitting it, we couldn't, you know, address some of those, whether it's sunlight, whether it's just outside time. It's one of the reasons we moved to California. Yeah, it's really important to us. I love that. And when I talk to people, you know, when's the last time for many people? It's been years. Yeah.

- I know. - Years. In modern day primitive culture tribes and our early ancestors, they were connected to the earth 24/7, 365. I'm sure you know this, but the earth has a slightly negative charge. All of our cells are electrophysical in nature. Every one of them has a voltage-gated calcium channel, electron transport chain. They're electrophysical in nature. So we've always been connected to this slightly negative charge. We've disconnected ourselves from that, right? With rubber-soled shoes, elevated beds, buildings, and cars.

And so I'm like, hey, when's the last time you were connected? Many people, it's been years. And so I said, let's think back. When was it? Well, I was in Hawaii. Oh, what were you doing? I was walking on the beach. Who were you with? My wife. Were you holding hands? Were you under the sun? How did it make you feel? Oh, it felt like a million bucks. This is why we go swimming in the ocean over here. It's like, we want to get cold. Thank God the ocean is nice and cool right now. Because it's like, oh, that'll wake you up.

But you don't just feel like a million bucks because of the thermal pressure of cold. Because you're connected. You're in harmony with this resonance. So...

I think I just went off the deep end trying to answer that question. But what it all comes down to is Mr. Uber driver, the name is Liver King because liver is king. Please start getting liver into your life. And then please follow my story. You're going to see there's a whole host of other things you can do effortlessly to start living a better life. I love that. I feel like you make the whole message very digestible for people. And I

I've heard you say people won't listen if it's boring. You make it entertaining and fun. And I really appreciate that. Thank you. I want to hop back because a lot of people listening may not know your original story. Who were you before living? Yeah. How far back do you want to go? Brian Johnson. Let's talk like high school, middle school era. Okay. Yeah, this is tough. I'm going to talk about it.

So leading up to about 10 years old, I had the best life ever, completely oblivious to any harm or danger or self-worth or measuring against anybody. I would say I had the best life ever. Going into sixth grade, my best friends from up the street, they moved to Houston. I lived in San Antonio. I didn't really, I mean, I cared, but I didn't care that much. I'm like, oh, I'll probably make some new friends, you know?

I'd never made new friends, not for the next like three or four years. And so middle school was really painful for me. It's the most painful time in my life. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14-ish, those years. 15, I started to find my stride. But those days, I would go to school. I didn't look like anybody. I didn't talk like anybody. I was tiny. I was undersized. I was born with hearing issues, so I didn't speak until several years later. I went through speech therapy.

I remember all the time I had stuff coming out of my ears. I constantly had ear infections from all of these surgeries. And you get used to hear, you know, when you hear a little gnat or a fly around your ear, right? Well, eventually you just get used to it. They get trapped in the mucus and your infection and they just stay there and you get used to it. And you're called every name in the world, you know, like, because you can't say, I try to pronounce my brother's name, which is Mark, Mock, you know, or Milk and everything came out wrong.

So it's like I gave everybody every reason to make fun of me. You know, I didn't look like anybody. Like I said, I was undersized and I didn't stand up for myself. Not one time. So some people say, oh, so you were bullied. I'm like, oh, that is such an understatement. Like if you actually knew what I went through, I mean, every single day, you know, people would push me. They would punch me. And not once did I stand up for myself. And so I would come home, look in the mirror, and I just had no self-worth whatsoever. You know, I was just embarrassed of like this brain and body that I had and

And I just remember thinking, oh my God, like, I just wish I could be like somebody else at school. And I would say their names. I was like, why can't I just wake up one day and be this person? And I don't know why, but I thought maybe that could happen. With enough time, you know, it's just like, I knew that the world would be a better place without me. And I didn't know how I was going to get out of this, really. I don't know if you want to hear this next part, but I'll try to make it

really brief is, like I said, I never stood up for myself and people would push me down and there would be crowds, 30 people, you know, ready for a fight. I knew that I was never going to fight. And I grew up without a dad. My dad died before I had any memory of him. So I didn't have anyone to put their arm around. And listen, I'm not asking for sympathy. What I also want to make clear is this is the best thing that ever happened to me. I believe this is the best. I mean, how many people get this kind of rite of passage to get forged through the fire? So I am grateful for this. I kind of made a friend

towards eighth grade. It was my brother's friend, really. But his mom found out that some guy challenged me to a fight. And she's like, what are you going to do? I'm like, of course I'm not going to fight. I've never fought. I'm not going to fight. And she says, I'll drive you to the fight. You need to fight. You're strong. You can do this. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe she believed in me like nobody else had ever believed in me. Her son, Justin said, hey, you got to do this. My brother just kind of was in the background, like, yeah, supporting the same thing.

So she drove me to the fight and I remember getting out long. I don't want to make this too long of a story. We get in this fight. I end up on top and I ended up realizing I am strong. I couldn't believe for the first time ever, like I actually was strong. And if I could do that to this guy, by the way, I didn't strike him. Just want everyone to know that at the time I thought, oh my God, I wish I had strike. I wish I had done that to him. Everything happens for a reason. But afterwards I knew like, if I could do that,

What else am I capable of? And this started like a whole different trajectory, like where I started to develop some confidence and then I could see other people starting to see some worth and value in me too. And then in turn, I could see some worth and value in myself.

And then that just grew and I found a way to dig myself out of that hell hole that I called my life from. I'm telling you from like 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, that was hell. 15 was still really tough, but at 15, I was like, oh, I'm pretty strong now. And at 15, I could turn the tables. And after that one fight, I realized I'm going to push back and I pushed back a lot. And so that's the 10 to 15 year old. That was the hardest time in my life that I struggled a lot. Yeah. I struggled a lot at that time. At this point.

At this 15-year-old age, had you found physical fitness yet? Like working out? You know, the guys up the street from me had already had a bench. My mom's boyfriend at the time gave me a bench because he knew we were doing stuff. So around seven or eight, I started bench pressing and doing some curls, you know, like the leg extension machine that they have out there. I wish somebody told me to do squats and power cleans early on.

Nobody told me to do that, but as I'm getting into it now, I'm getting the magazines and now I'm doing all the routines. So yes, I had found that I probably was a whole lot stronger than what anybody had given me credit for. But I was at least a foot shorter than everybody. I mean, going into high school, I was still under five foot tall. I was just a little guy. So I think that I was already on this trajectory

But again, like I had already put my, and the fights at school, if you could see the fights, how bloody they were, how violent they were. I want to know part of that. Absolutely. No part of it. So again, it was like, Hey, you don't want to fight me. Take your shot, do whatever you want. You know, you're not going to get any retaliation. So the physical fitness journey had started even earlier.

I found fitness later in life, like kind of similar to you. I was in a really painful spot. I call it like my rock bottom. And it sounds like you kind of hit that too. Fitness was the first thing that showed me that I was able to show up for myself and keep my own promises. And it really was the first thing that boosted my confidence. Have you found that fitness like taught you

everything you know about discipline how much has it helped you in in your life yeah 100 you know i try and share this with people like okay there's a a few pieces of advice i like to give with to people like number one start start with liver because liver is king but number two start lifting heavy things and when you start lifting heavy things you know like what what is life worth if you're not healthy enough right if you can't move through life and this is not just

at the very least it's physical strength, right? It's like when you figure out how to get strong, it's discipline, it's relentless focus, it's active suffering, active struggling. On the other side of that, if you don't do that, you're going to passively suffer with depression, anxiety, self-worth. I mean, all these other things that you're still going to suffer with. So why not actively suffer and create this sort of higher form? So what I think you realize in the process, when you lift heavy weights, you learn how to get strong physically and

But that process, you can point at a relationship. You can point in business. I'm sure that you've already done all this, right? It's like you've unlocked the process to achieve success in any respective form or discipline. And so the ability to learn that early on and then to start to point that at relationships and in business as an entrepreneur, yeah, I would say...

Learning this at an early age, I have no idea where I would be right now if I had not learned this early. You always say the same thing, right? We both say the same thing. I mean, it's so funny just looking at the two of you because you look like polar opposites, obviously, from the outside. But the amount of similarities that I'm hearing from your stories, you brought up entrepreneurial business, just seeing the trauma turned into...

fitness journey turned into what looks like you almost intentionally reverse engineered a social media sensation or social media success reverse engineered into a nine figure business model. You've both done that exact thing, but all based off of just authenticity and being like your raw self through this camera lens. And that's why it's obviously sustainable because you're, you know, you've been on this campaign for what, 18, 24 months now. And, um,

the only reason you're able to maintain that is because this is actually who you are. The only reason you've been able to maintain this, Mari, for years is because this is actually who you are. And those are the people that can maintain this. It's just so funny. You know what's interesting? This part of me that you asked me about, I don't know if anyone had ever asked that before, but I did not want to be forthcoming about it. There was about two years ago, I said, I'll never tell my kids this story. There was a time in seventh grade, I thought that I had made a friend. This other white kid came to school. Chuck, oh my God, I'm going to have a friend.

Because nobody liked Chuck. They're doing the same thing to Chuck. I'm like, oh, I'm going to have a friend. But Chuck fought back. And they were bloody as hell battles. And he would be suspended. And when he got back, exact same thing would happen. I would have about five minutes to make a friendship with him. I thought this was happening. But he fought back enough times they took him in. And what ends up happening is Chuck retaliates on me. And he's pushing me in the courtyard and pushing me and pushing me. And now, again, there's 30 people around. I trip over a planter. I'm on my back. And I say, hey, man, you don't want to fight me.

I'm a pussy. I mean, these are verbatim. This is what I said. And I felt like that. I knew that. I knew that. But I was so ashamed of that and felt so weak just thinking about this. I thought I will never tell my kids this.

And I'm surely never going to tell the world this, you know? And so this is one of the silver linings about these emails coming out and people actually giving in crap, wanting to know this story. And there's no way that you could be consistent, you know, to want to share this story if this wasn't actually who I am. So I'm grateful that these emails came out. I'm grateful to have this opportunity to talk about this stuff because this has allowed me to go deep, you know, and start dealing with some things that I buried, you

I absolutely buried. And I know that there's other 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 year olds going through this. And I'm like, I know how that feels. I did that. You know, I did that. And so this is interesting that you draw this connection, but like, yeah, I got a chip on my shoulder. You know, and somebody told me the other day, he like tried to put his hand on my shoulder and he's like, hey man, you're enough. You're enough. And I said, no, I'm not.

So I'm not even close to enough, you know? And I think the day that you accept that you're enough, you're done. Like we're growing or we're dying. This is an interesting thing. I think people want to put their arm around me and say, hey, look, I know you're suffering. I know you're hurting, but don't worry, man, you're enough. I got some stuff I got to deal with. I know that, you know, because I took this maniacal kind of drive to fitness and working out and crushing myself and destroying myself. I do it too much. I mean, I do at least two of these a day, sometimes three. If there's food and it's time to eat, like I'm not eating right now. I got to go earn it.

And I call it the simulated successful hunt. I've justified it like you wouldn't believe. It's what's required of me to go to bed feeling like I am worth it. I'm worth it today, but not tomorrow. I got to do this thing all over again. But I really appreciate you. You know, I said, I knew this was going to be tough. It's tough to talk about, you know. Like I said, I had convinced myself I'll never tell my kids this story.

You think I'm going to tell a stranger the story? And I'm going to tell other people in the world the story? Thank God I've had the chance to do it because now there's so many kids that are DMing me, hey, I'm going through this too. And if there's hope for you, listen, I don't think my situation is as dire as yours was, but you've given me hope and I'm going to try and do these things that you're talking about.

I think a lot of times our pain actually becomes our purpose, right? And the thing that hurt us the most is the thing we can help other people with the best. You mentioned the emails. Let's address it now for anyone listening. There may be people listening right now who just know of you through the emails, for example, because people love drama.

Do you want to speak on that real quick and just clear the air? Sure. Yeah. I just want to make it really clear to everybody that I've been lying to people about not being on steroids. And it was about a year and a half ago. Logan Paul asked me, hey, man, you guys taking are you taking anything? And I told him no. And then I doubled down. No, you know, that subprimal and all this other kind of stuff.

So I lied to his face. I lied to a lot of people's faces. I lied to the young people, all people that were engaging with my content, DMs and contents and comments. You know, I was dishonest about it. And there's all these reasons I can tell you why I justified it. This is why the mind is such a dangerous weapon because I justified it. You know, I told myself this had nothing to do with the message. I told myself, who am I cheating? What sport do I play? Like, who am I cheating? Right. I'm not a professional athlete. And I knew that I didn't want 15 year olds to hear this message.

And that still really tugs at me because there's a lot of young people now that are reaching out saying, okay, what exactly were you taking? And I'm like, oh, no, like...

This is one of the reasons why, but I also just want to make it clear. That's what I did wrong. I know that that was wrong. Nothing will ever justify it. I own this, right? And there's so much hate. There's so much criticism, but there's also so much love and support. But the hate and the criticism, just this morning, I made a story. I'm like, I deserve all of it. I own everything that I did. I deserve all of it. And I'm going to keep fighting this fight because this fight's way bigger than me. And even if you don't follow me, you got to follow somebody else who's sharing this ancestral way of living.

Right, because the world, that's not gonna change. The world's gonna continue to hurt like this. We're not heading in the right direction. So what ends up happening is emails were leaked, private conversations about me asking coaches to help me out because my blood chemistries were off. I couldn't get any growth hormone to register. It was like under 90. I think I was the IGF-1 actually. And so some emails were leaked about me taking steroids and then someone made a really long video about like a documentary, really well done actually,

And I remember watching it and I immediately was like, wife, come over here. And we start watching it together and my heart's kind of like come out of my chest. But I would say within about two, three, four, five minutes, I was like, sort of feeling relieved. This is out here. This is my reality. You know, I own all of this and I'm going to lead myself to a better life. I immediately start thinking about how can I be grateful for this? What silver linings will come out of this? And so a lot of people do feel misled and rightfully so.

I'll always want to share back with them. You don't have to be loyal to me, but you need to be loyal and understand the facts are, and if you don't mind, I want to just take the next 30 seconds to say this. 4,000 people a day actually kill themselves. 80,000 people a day try to do this.

85% of the population struggles with self-esteem issues. I'm part of that. 80% of the population struggles paycheck to paycheck. And why does that matter? Because we're living beyond our means. We're trying to show our worth, our potential, our status to the world with watches, with cars, with bags and stuff like that. The real intrinsic value comes from in here. And then 70% of the population are overweight, half are obese, 50% on prescription medicine, 40% have or will get cancer.

And 20% have this biological imperative to propagate our species, right? We want to be healthy enough to be fertile enough to have kids. 20% of the population can't do that. We're hurting at record rates. So this is the message I try and say back. Like the North Star has always been the North Star. You have to acknowledge that people are hurting at record rates.

If you're mad at me, you have every right in the world to be mad at me. But please follow somebody else like Weston A. Price's work, who's a giant in the field, who talks all about ancestral living and how to eat nose-to-tail stuff. CarnivoreMD, Ben Greenfield, Andrew Huberman, they're all talking about these nine ancestral tales. All I've done is I've packaged it in a really organized way. And so I say, I know what I did was wrong. I can't even begin to explain how sorry I feel for this.

But now the obligation is if you don't want to engage with, I hope you'll stay. I hope you'll stay. But if you don't stay, please continue to engage with someone else's content and execute because the path forward is right in front of you. And so that that's what happened. Emails were leaked. It allowed me to face my reality. I lied. It was wrong. I'm going to live a better life now. Well, it's funny because like the perspective of a consumer of your content, which was me, a genuine fan, still am a genuine fan.

I didn't go to your page for cosmetic physique tips, right? So when that information came out, I followed you for your tenacity at life, for being a man of your household, for how you attack your day-to-day responsibilities. And none of that is changed based off of a physical PED, right? Yeah, and I actually think the way that you handled it heads-on

has been really admirable because I think a lot of times nowadays there's drama that comes out and people just disappear from the internet and they stop talking about it. A lot of people told me to do that. You had a hell of a crisis team. I don't think that would have been the right move. A lot of people said, go hide, go do that. You know, Winston Churchill said something like this, you know, run towards the danger, cut the consequence in half.

And every time that anyone has done this, that's what happens. If you run towards a danger, any tough conversation you know has been lurking, go do it right now. And that's part of the reason why I train Barbarian every week because it's such a hard workout to do. It takes you to such depth. That is the hardest thing you'll ever do. So now if all I have to do is face the world and say what I did was wrong, I lied, I let a lot of people down, it's not as hard as that.

You know, and again, like the silver linings, like the resistance that's coming to my life because of this, we all know that physical resistance forges stronger physical strength, right? But then socially and emotionally, mentally and spiritually, how do we create resistance in our lives to grow in those areas, to grow holistically? You couldn't have asked for more resistance. And I'm still going through it, right?

And I'm still going through it. I'm in the middle of it. And thank you for sharing what you shared because I get a lot of support and love back. Hey, man, I never came to you for this stuff. Your tenants are real. Let me tell you how many people I know that are doing this stuff and used to go from psychiatric ward to psychiatric ward, D1 athletes that are now kicking ass just because they had a nutrient deficiency. Maybe they never got sun. Maybe they never figured out how to put the phone down. Maybe they never had thermal pressures. The things that have allowed us to heal and be healthy since the beginning of time for millions of years, they still work.

On the other side of that, I did let a whole lot of other people down who came to me for other reasons. And so I also want to acknowledge and own that too, that they did think, and they've said this, I was reading DMs yesterday. Now what am I going to do? I believed these nine ancestral tenets were true. I followed them because of you. And now I find out that you're a liar. Now what should I do? And

And so then my statement back is the nine ancestral tenants work. I lied about one thing and it was this thing. You got to just remain loyal to the fact people are hurting. You came here for a reason. You were hurting, you were suffering, you were struggling. And if you no longer, I hope you follow me and I hope you follow these things and I hope that you'll figure your way out of here with some guidance. But if it's not going to be me, you got to connect with one of these other individuals.

I think even from my personal situation, I had a really bad mental health diagnosis. I was having suicidal thoughts. And the only thing that worked for me was working my ass off and getting outside every day and lifting weights. And I still do it because I know if I stop, I'll slip backwards to what I was.

when I feel like you're on a similar path. Yeah. I know you visited a ton of primitive tribes, which has been really interesting. What would you say is your biggest takeaway from those people? Oh my gosh, the biggest liver is king. I'll tell you the biggest takeaways. These are the happiest, most fulfilled people you've ever met in your life.

anywhere. The culture and chemistry, the electricity that they produce with zero material possessions. You come walk into the Hudson. These guys are the wildest savages guys. I mean, their skin, they have scars everywhere because they run through the bushes and the trees and the thorns and

And they're just bleeding and they don't care. I mean, these guys are incredible. They live for the moment. They live for the day. They hunt for the day and anything left over, they give to the dogs and the birds. And then tomorrow's a new day. Everything is new. What I've learned from them is you don't need a single material possession to be fulfilled, to really be happy. But what we do need to know is our true roles and goals.

And that's so blurred today. A man's traditional role, a woman's traditional role, how we're complementary opposites, how we absolutely unequivocally need each other to express a higher form. People know their roles and goals in primitive culture tribes because their lives depend on it. They know who the hunter is. They know who the weapon maker is. They know who the shelter maker is and has to be maintained in perpetuity. We know who the caretaker, compassion maker, nurturer, and your role depends on it.

So I'll tell you that the electricity that they produce, I'm like, how do we bring that here? How do we make that so crystal clear with our company vision and mission so that we could drive to create these sort of outcomes? Because I'm telling you, if any team here had that kind of culture, any professional sports team, they win the Super Bowl every year. So I'll tell you, that's the number one thing. I think Lever Queen would probably say the same thing. It's like the culture, the chemistry, the love that they have. You've never seen anything like this.

Why do you think so many people in today's society struggle with mental health? You know, it's so multifactorial. Somebody tried to point the finger at me the other day. Again, I deserve it because guys like me are showing what's impossible and they're trying to measure it up to you. I deserve that. Bring it on, right? But I'm also going to forcefully push back and say, you think that's it? You think that's all that is? You know how many of us have nutrient deficiencies?

You know, like we need liver, we need bone marrow, we need egg yolks, we need midday sun. Like so many of us are nutrient deficient and magnesium and other things, you know, that that in and of itself can create a mood disorder. If you don't sleep right, you know, the way that that wrecks havoc on your neurochemistry and your hormones, it's, it really is sleep, eat, move, shield, connect, cold, sun, fight and bond. And when somebody has, so I know you asked a really big obtuse question about

My answer back is it's so multifactorial. Some people that have a clear nutrient deficiency, so many people feel so much better by just taking liver. And then I know a lot of people are like, I'm not going to, listen, you're asking me to eat liver. I can't even get out of bed. Can you get into the shower?

Yeah, maybe I'll try it. Okay, cool. Do it. I'm going to email you in 10 minutes. See how it fits. Email in 10 minutes. Oh, I couldn't do it. It was too hard to take a cold shower. And then you take a cold shower. I'm going to email you again every 10 minutes till you've taken a cold shower. Start with hot. Start with hot now. Okay, I could do it. How do you feel?

I feel a lot better. Okay, now go talk to somebody. Put down this phone and go bond. This is a ninth ancestral tenant bond, right? Which is so far removed from us today. Like we're doing this right now. I don't know how you guys feel, but this is one of the reasons why I love podcasts because, you know, to put things down and to connect like this, to feel one another's spirit energy, you know, there's so many intangible things that happen. Like it's hard to have a mood disorder when you're connecting like this, when you can share like this. So I would just say it's so incredibly multifactorial. All nine ancestral tenants connect.

play a major role on our neurochemistry and our hormones and a lot of people want to know okay so what's the first thing i do well listen you got to have some energy to even talk to somebody go take a cold shower go start eating liver and a lot listen when i was between 10 and 15 and someone said hey go talk to somebody i didn't have anybody i didn't even have my listen my mom was around but my mom made it so clear my first day of middle school i came back crying because some adult beat the out of me you know and i'm like

I'm never going back. I told her there's no way I'm going back. I knew in my mind there was no way. But before I could finish telling her what happened, she made it so crystal clear. Listen, I'm not hearing it. You're going back. That's a foregone conclusion. That's it. And so I would never go back to her to talk to her about any of these things. And my mom is great. My mom, nothing against my mom, but so many people have nobody. And so start getting cold, get enough energy. If

Put down that phone, connect with somebody, talk to them about your issues. You're already going to start feeling better. But then you have these nine ancestral tenets where you don't have to talk to somebody if you have nobody. You can start getting better sleep. You can eat better. You go get a hard workout in. Your neurochemistry and your hormones are so favorable that

you're going to probably forget about your issues for a little while. You start getting midday sun, you put your bare feet on the ground and feel that sun at your back. Again, all of these things start to ratchet up, more favorable neurochemistry, more favorable hormones, and so we start to feel better.

That's a long-winded response to your question, but I just think it's so multifactorial. And again, like even our roles and goals in life are so blurred. You know, women by default, I believe, no, they're biological imperative. Like biological imperative, you know, is like women are, I believe this, right? So just feel free to push back.

But I believe that women are purpose-built for social and emotional strength, to nurture, to nourish, to caretake, and to compassion make for the complimentary opposite and for your respective tribe. And a man can't have a child, right? And so again, this is a biological imperative. Hormones and neurochemistry validate this.

And so, so many roles are so kind of intertwined today, you know, and I would say that the man's primary role is purpose built for physical strength, to fight, to provide and to protect for his complimentary opposite and for his respective tribe. And so when we're really clear about that, okay, what's required to do that as a man to fulfill your biological imperative without values right now, we're just talking about like, what's required for that?

And that takes strength, courage, mastery, and honor. So like, guess what? Now we got to get into the gym. We got to figure out what we're fighting for. This isn't just getting into the gym, fighting or picking a fist fight. It's like, what's your purpose in life? Where are you going to point your energy at? You got to provide and protect for your family. And I just want to make this clear. I believe that we're intellectual, spiritual equals.

Right. Because I start talking about what I think a man's built for what a woman is. And then I get a lot of DMs back. Oh, so you think we're not equal. And I want to make it clear. I don't think we're equals. Right. I think that's why a man is called a man and a woman is called something different. I think men are purpose built for physical strength. I think women are purpose built for social, emotional strength. I think that we're intellectual, spiritual equals and that we need each other. So I just want to get that out there before I guarantee you the first part will be clipped.

Not on your show, but somebody's going to clip it and say, see, I told you. That might happen. But we'll, you know, we'll see what happens. And I'm curious, actually, I was going to ask you when it comes to men and women ancestrally, do you think there's any difference in the diet? Because I know, for example, Greg does

does long fasts, like he'll fast for a few days. I can't do that. Like I feel really not good when I do that. Is there any science behind that? You think? I don't know about the science behind it, but I think that is evolutionary consistent that when you haven't eaten for a while, that the men save food for the women and the kids. So you do see this.

So you have these feast and famine cycles that have always occurred naturally for millions of years. Modern day primitive culture tribes, same thing happens. If you're not successful in the hunt, the same thing happens. But you'll see the primitive culture tribes save food for women and children. So I think that might be evolutionarily consistent. And also, I think there's a whole lot of intuitive aspects to this, right? Like if you can feel okay doing it, you know, well, we should do it. And I always say comfort's not good for the organism, but there's only so much discomfort we can take.

My wife and I do a five-day water-only fast once a quarter. And so we're, and, you know, sometimes I take it for granted, like, oh, and this is very tough for me to do, you know, to do a five-day water fast. But thank God she does it with me.

Yeah. I was trying to do this by myself, you know. I don't know. If you did it with me, I think we'd kill each other. I think we'd kill each other. Honestly, I don't know about that. I think I'd have to live in a different house for a little bit. Sometimes I'll do it when she's away. Yeah. Because it's good that, you know what I mean? That's interesting. Yeah. And, you know, like, there's a lot of evidence, like, Weston A. Price talks a lot about this, when women of childbearing age, that wild fish eggs will be brought, you know, just for them. Mm.

Just for them. So there's certain care that is taken just for women and children. So I do think that there's some evolutionary consistent. I don't know about any of the science behind it though. Interesting. Because I was thinking maybe when the men go on a hunt, they're not eating for hours on end potentially. Oh, that for sure is true. But what I've seen is like,

So if everyone has eaten, what ends up happening is successful in the hunt, they start eating right away. Successful in the hunt, like, okay, it's time to eat, you know, and usually the liver comes out first. Some of the tribes will drink the blood immediately. Then there may be a small fire that started. Some of the organs are seared.

And then the rest of the food is going back to the tribe. But if the women and kids haven't eaten in a while, well, they're not plopping down and feeding themselves. It's going back to the women and the children. If someone's listening and they want to introduce liver into their diet, but they're scared, what do you recommend?

If they're scared about doing it, you know, the journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, right? So what I would recommend is get it any way you possibly can. I really believe a little bit of maple syrup and salt and partially frozen, you can do that. Have you heard some people that make even smaller cubes and freeze it and they'll swallow it like a capsule? Hmm.

So a lot of people will do that. Any way you can get it, you got to figure out what works for you, but you got to get it somehow. If you need to cook it, cook it. Again, if you can't do any of that, they make capsule versions of it too. So I always say, if you can get the real deal, get the real deal. If you can get it with some maple syrup and do it raw, I think that's highly beneficial. If you're thinking, oh, listen, no way I'm going to do that. Again, see if you can freeze some small pieces, swallow that like a capsule. But a lot of people don't even want to touch anything.

raw meat or raw liver. So again, if you're not going to do that, you have to find a way to get into your life. So if you get, I'm not the only show in town, you can get capsules from anybody, right? Go get some liver capsules, read the reviews online, you know, go, go with a party that you highly trust. And, and, and, and this is what I'll say, like a lot of people will start that and then they'll realize the benefit of it. And then they'll say, they'll, then they'll make a decision. Do I want to continue on with capsules or now can I get the real deal in my life?

Have you heard of liver smoothies? Oh, yeah. That's a thing now. People are putting liver in their smoothies. Keep it on like an ice cube tray. Yeah. Throw a couple cubes in. How do they make it? I don't know. Is it with fruit? Just like you said, little frozen pieces of liver. Throw that into your smoothie, whatever smoothie you were having anyway, and just you won't even taste it. I think Ben Greenfield's doing that. So this was 15 years ago. This is how we started liver with liver smoothies. But let me tell you how we would do it. Yours were pure liver. Always.

- Almost, that's what she would do. And I remember the first time we did it, we just blended it up, liver and some water and it was tough. - Jeez. - It was tough. But then we mixed it with fermented kimchi juice. - Nice. - Just kimchi juice with some raw liver and it's like, oh wow.

that's a treat that's pretty delicious so yeah we used to do it like again it doesn't matter how you get it if you want to put in a smoothie a lot of people will get like a ground option they got primal ground options some of these online ranches and you have like let's just say it's 10 20 liver in with the other ground beef and you're eating a burger or however you eat the ground beef yeah you hardly taste it there's a lot of ways to sneak it in you got to get this nourishment you know can we evolve with this for millions of years

Most people out here in the world, I don't know about the whole world, but I would say most people, especially Westerners, have never had this nourishment in their biology. And so once they start it, they feel similar. They feel this confidence. They feel the lights come on. This is nourishment that we've always needed. And so I'm going to keep fighting this fight. Whatever happens, I'm going to keep fighting this fight. I'm going to make sure people know the value of liver. And as long as you can try it, I think you'll feel the benefits. Yeah, there's a brand I love. I think it's called Force of Nature. It's a ranch. They ship an ancestral blend of vegetables.

I think it's buffalo with organs or beef with organs. You'll make a bolognese sauce with that. It's delicious. So talking about ultra high performers like yourself, like name the athlete, name the ultra entrepreneur who are on a pedestal on social media.

I look back at the 14 year olds that we were just talking about. I wish when I was 14, I had social media to see these people. I don't even, you know, it took me until I was 18 and like social media really started to be able to like have those influences on my life that I didn't have because of the lack of social media. I understand the, you know,

falsehoods or the insecurities that can come with that. But how do you feel about, I mean, I know you have young teenagers or young kids or just amongst the youth community using social media and seeing these ultra high performers on social media, or how do you just feel about their social media use overall? I think social media can be an incredible weapon. It's also...

used to our detriment. Social media needs to be used to curate and to create value. So to curate value, to say, okay, what needs to be done to be an ultra high performer? But as we start to compare ourselves to them, I wish other people would say, listen, you need to measure yourself to you. If you compare yourself to Lever King, you've already lost. My message has never been

Eat liver, look like liver king, right? And I wish more people would say, my message isn't that, and this may be implied, right? But we should maybe be more forcefully verbal about this. Don't ever compare yourself to me. Don't measure yourself against other people. Measure you against you. Nobody knows how to be you the way you know how to be you. You know, nobody knows how to be liver king the way liver king can be liver king. Like to express your highest and most dominant form is how you reach that next level in life, right? And you'll continue to progress and progress. And guess what? You're going to be better than me.

But you compared yourself to me and all you want to do is measure up to me? You could be so much better than me. And that's what I mean. Every single day I always say, these are our ancestral ways to express your highest and most dominant form. And I'd say that so much that maybe it falls on deaf ears. Maybe I need to be more clear about what I mean by that. So what I mean by that is don't measure yourself against another man or another woman.

What you need to do is measure yourself against you to express your highest form. So I think it's really important. I think the message needs to be, we can get on social media. We can use it as utility. But utilities are great until they're used against us at our detriment because there's so much mindless observing, so much mindless entertainment. And a lot of times, this is great to go out and people recognize me. Like, how cool is this? They know my name is Liver King. Why? But why? And half of them know because liver is king.

Oh, I'm like, thank God I'm doing my job. Right. And then, and then I say, are you eating liver? Half more than half of them or not. I would say about 20% are. And so first of all, that that's pretty cool. I'm like for that 20%. Oh, hell yeah. Let's take a picture. What's your name? Let's talk all day. But if you're not eating liver immediately, I think, how have I failed? What have I done just to make entertaining content that,

for a young person or for anybody to observe. And now I'm part of the problem. Oh, so you're mindlessly consuming my content? Are you doing any of the other ancestral tenets? So listen, we just got together. You knew the name was Liver King. Now you know it's because liver is king. You just met Liver King over here on the pier.

Please let this beast sink into your head. You have to get liver into your life. Once you start getting liver into your life, you see that benefit. Go get the sun, get the earth and learn about the nine ancestral tenets. Like you start doing this and then you're going to model, teach and preach this to your respective tribe. So I think it's a double-edged sword, right? There can be inspiration there. And one of the things I try and really teach is I don't really believe in inspiration or motivation per se, right? I believe figuring out what your why is in the world.

what are your roles and goals? And then figure out your why and point your energy to that why. Because guess what? You're going to wake up one day and not have liver king or have this other guy, right? To motivate you. You're not going to have your personal trainer. So what's your why in the world? Like, do you want to be healthy enough to walk, you know, to be there for your kid's wedding, for the grandkids, for these milestones? If I want to be healthy enough to engage with life and do these sorts of things, well, then I got to do, I'll wake up every day and I'll do what needs to be done. And so I think that's an important thing. I wish other

let's say influencers could really teach that. So again, it's a double-edged sword. I do feel like there's a big utility. It's been a massive weapon for me to spread the message, but I'm constantly checking in with people. Why, why is my name liver King? Are you eating liver? You even getting sun, you know, Oh, we got some work to do and we're going to keep doing that work. Love that. Would you ever start a podcast? I'm in the process of trying to get that started. I think that would be amazing. Cause I think you have a lot to say. Thank you. I feel like I do. Um,

before the liver king started on social media i never wanted to do that you know i was like i had lived a pretty good life i liked my life you know and i'm like oh so now i'm gonna open up 99.9 percent now it's a hundred percent you know of my life to the world

And along the way, I've always said, and someone else said this, like, when you take on more responsibility, you always get better, right? Because progress and happiness are almost anonymous, right? And so, okay, I'll take on this extra responsibility. We'll see how this goes. Yeah. And I know for sure I've grown in so many different special ways. And then somewhere along this way, someone said, hey, man, you need to start a podcast. I'm like, I do feel like I have a lot to share. And so when other people believe in me like that, but you know what? I don't want to do it, but I do feel like I have to do it. Hmm.

And so doing that to get the message out, you know, like whatever is required to most effectively get the message out. So I do plan on doing it. And then when I come see places like state of the art places like this world-class places, it is a little intimidating. Yeah.

You're not intimidated. Well, let me just tell you, there's a lot of podcast studios that are nothing like what you have set up. So I'm like, okay, I could do this. But then I come here and I'm like, okay, we got work to do. Well, you could add one to the liver ranch, no? Right, yes. I'm sure you have plenty of room. We are building. We're currently building it out. So like the rooms are, the building is done. The room is done. And now we're trying to, and I think it was, we did it too big. I mean, it's...

Maybe you can have like multiple setups, you know, for different types of conversations. Yeah. I'm excited. I'm going to tune in. I think it'll be great. Cool. And as you said, one of the ancestral tenets is bond, right? Right. What a great way to bond and get to know someone. Absolutely. You know, again, the physical strength thing is easy, right? We know what to do. Get into the gym, go lift heavy things, do pushups before dinner. But like,

that's only a small fraction of our being. We've got this other social, emotional, spiritual, and mental side. Like, how do we do that? And so to be able to do this, to connect at this level, you know, to talk with people that are better than you, especially masters in their respective discipline who's achieved this kind of success, it's like, what a gift I get to be able to sit across you, to be able to learn from you, to see how you communicate. I always tell my kids, people hardly ever remember what you say, but they'll remember how you made them feel. Mm-hmm.

And it's usually because of how you say it and how you share your energy with each other. And to be able to sit... Yesterday, we were with the giant in the creative space. It's like every day we have this opportunity to do this. And I love... My kids aren't here. They just went back home to Texas. This is my job as a parent to bring them into these spaces to learn. And so this bond aspect, this is a real deal. And you feel it when it happens. So I appreciate you saying that. I'm looking forward to doing it. I'm very... You know, like...

Probably when you don't want to do something. It's the right thing. You probably should do it. 100%. The things that scare you the most are worth doing. Yeah. And I asked this gentleman yesterday, I said, hey, give me some advice. How do you think you became the best at what you do? And he goes, oh, it's easy.

Oh, it's easy. Tell me. He goes, nobody gives a shit. That's what he said. Nobody gives a shit. So just do it because nobody actually cares that much. He's like, just do it. And so I'm in line with take massive action. Right. So just do it. Just do it. And I'm like, oh, that's pretty cool because that's what I do really well is fire, fire, fire, aim, fire, fire, fire. Right. Like I'm just course correcting along the way. So I am not really wanting to do it, but I'm going to.

Last question I have is about you two, Liver Queen, Liver King. You seem to have a very healthy relationship. You've been married for 10 years or something? 18. Oh, wow. Okay. What tips do you have for Greg and I? Because we just got married. Congratulations. Thank you. We just hit our one year. One year, yeah. We've been together for almost a decade, but married one year. Yeah. So how long were you in a relationship for prior to engagement? Seven or eight. Yeah. Seven years. Yeah. And then how long were you engaged for? A year? One year. Okay. Just about. Yeah.

Yeah. What took you so long? You know, thank you, liver king. Jeez, I'm sweating now. That is the question of the day, right? Well, I try and tell everyone this. Hey, listen, if you don't take massive action, like, you know, you're why in the world, you know, your soulmate does, right? And it's like, take massive action because what someone else is going to grab for her hand. How long were you two together before you proposed?

Well, a couple of weeks. Oh, my God. But listen, I'm not suggesting anyone go out and do that. All I know is I had never been in a serious relationship in my life. Yeah. We met on a mountain snowboarding wearing helmets. And I knew she was my soulmate from the day that I met her. Like, to me, this was clear as day. I've never met anybody like her in my life. And I thought she's so much better than me. There's no way I'm going to let her go. I'm going to go to this as fast as I can. So we got engaged probably six to eight weeks.

And then we got married another six to eight weeks after that. And I had to seal the deal as fast as possible. And then here's what happened. Even after we got married, you know,

We would have fights. And she's like, I'm going back to New York. And so I said, oh man, like getting married wasn't enough. We got to have a kid as soon as possible. And I'll tell you what, after she got pregnant, there was never one more. I'm going to New York. Never one more. Good trick. So I would just say that I believe we're truly complimentary opposites. We believe in ultra traditional gender roles. I'm not saying this is right for everybody. There's clearly exceptions. And that's why it's called the exception.

But it took us a while to figure that out because we were both sort of having male gender roles. Like she worked for most of our marriage. She went to the office from six in the morning to seven or eight at night. I mean, it was dark when she came home. So we were outsourcing our most important job as mom and dad, you know? And so one day she just said, I'm done with that. And I don't know how you actually came to that conclusion, but she said, I'm

I'm done doing this. I'm going to be a mom. This is my calling. This is my true nature. This is my biological imperative. I'm going to be a mom. I'm going to care, take compassion, make, nurture, nourish. You go figure the rest out. And I did. And thank God I did. You know, because I know I had my back against the wall.

But you're going to fight your way out of that, right? I always say that your woman needs to know that you can protect her in a dark alley. And I do mean it literally. We have to have the physical strength to provide and to protect. But figuratively, because guess what? The financial crisis comes. The health crisis comes.

And you need to be able to look at each other and know you can unequivocally always, loyalty above all, count on each other because you will always claw your way out of every situation. You've done it three or four times. It's a foregone conclusion. Guess what? The next storm is coming. The next hellhole is coming. This is life. We're going to figure this out. So for us, it just became really clear what are our roles and what are our goals.

And again, I think it's pretty, I think it's simple. You know, it's probably much more simple to say than it is to do. But we look at each other and really respect and appreciate each other for these complementary opposite roles. And she does that at the highest level. I do my job at the highest level. And then what we end up doing is like we spend about an hour a day just holding hands, walking after dinner. And so that's when she'll normally let me have it on some things.

We have a lot of similarities. But I'll tell you one of the other greatest gifts that we've had to make our marriage, I think, as successful as it is, is that we spent the entire day on Saturday together. And...

And a lot of times it's doing mushrooms. And I'm sharing that because you probably know how hard it is to turn off like the entrepreneurial. Oh, my God. It's like it follows us everywhere. And so she's like, OK, she's constantly working on how do I make things safer and better and caretake like she is. So if we don't have something, you know, to go and point our energy at something different, which is.

one another. What we end up doing is a lot of Saturdays we'll do mushrooms and we'll spend 10, 12 hours together at the top of our mountain just connecting about stuff. And it's like, so every day it's about an hour. And then every Saturday it's like 10 hours. And it's like,

That does it for us. The mushrooms will really help you connect on a deeper level as well, I feel like. Absolutely. Have psychedelics played a big role in your whole journey? In my whole journey, I would say yes. In my whole journey, I would say yes. Still dealing with my 10 to 15-year-old self. I'd never dealt with that prior to the emails coming out. I was driving in my car to go make the apology video. Oh, my truck, by the way, is a truck.

And I started like asking myself, why do I need to crush myself in the gym two or three times a day? Okay. Why do I have to feel like I earned it? Why do I have to feel like I'm worth it? Why do, why do I have to do that? And then it brought me back to like my 10 to 15 year old days. And I'm like, oh, and I actually started crying. I was in the truck by myself and I, and I started crying. And most of the time I start talking about this, I start crying. So that's why I'm like, I kind of said it really quickly earlier when we talked about it. So I know I gotta, I gotta deal with that. I gotta address that. I don't,

And I haven't actually done psychedelics since talking about this. So there might be an opportunity there. But what I do know is like whenever we do mushrooms, wherever we point our intention, you go so many layers deeper. And when it's with one another, we always do it in nature together. It's like you feel the souls of the trees. You feel how absolutely interconnected you are with everything in the universe. And we've talked a lot about this. It's not even like that we have souls, but we are souls.

And we're on this journey and everything is so connected. And so I'll say like we, what we were able to do after that is like, okay, let's talk about the things we talked about

the day before when we're doing mushrooms. Let's talk about that during the week. Let's see if we can go from that, integrate some of that stuff. And then I feel like you've earned the right to do it again. Instead of just mindless, because people say, oh, how do you imbibe? What do you do? I'm like, well, earn it. Go earn it. Because most people, you were just relaxing before. You're still relaxing after. Go do something to earn it. And if it's something like mushrooms, figure out what did you learn from it? How do you incorporate that into your life? How do you become better? And then how can you stack and compound value the next time you do it?

Amazing. Thank you for that. To finish us off, I want to play a little game that I created. Okay. It's called Primal or Subprimal. Okay. I'm good at this. I'm really, I'm undefeated. Okay. Because I put some wild cards on here. Okay. Cold Plunge. Oh, absolutely. Primal! Sauna.

hot girl walks what is that hot girl hot girl walks oh no comment let me make a comment about that there's nothing more attractive than my liver queen you know a hot girl walk is basically any anyone like liver queen going on a long walk

It's not about the girl herself. Yeah. Oh, that's primal as hell. Okay. Hot girl walks are primal, guys. Yeah. Fruit. So did you earn it? If you earn the fruit, that's primal. Climbing a tree to get it. Well, or a simulated version of that. Okay. Guacamole. Primal. Yeah, I would say. Fitness trackers. Oh, God. That's going to make so many people mad. That's the point. Okay.

It's okay. I don't do it. Yeah. You know, I think that there's so many other simple things you could do to get it right. Yeah. And I think we've become so obsessed with let me walk this way or eat this way. When you do the nine ancestral tenants and you optimize your hormones and your neurochemistry, it's wild how much more effortless it is. Like, okay, the tracker can't track. Like you got this logical engineered device.

to help manage your biology, which it changes every single day. So again, for some people, I know it's really valuable and they need it. In that instance, I would say it's primal. For a large part of the community, I'm going to say it's sub-primal. Okay. Horseback riding. Primal. Yes. I love that. Bread. Sub-primal. Yeah. Thought so. Coffee. Primal. Alcohol.

It depends. What is primal alcohol? Like whiskey? Yeah, I would say so. Okay. So what we normally drink is Everclear. We mix Everclear. But listen, it's not like we just drink it straight, right? Like we mix Everclear with some water, with some limes. It's sparkling water. It's cold. It tastes pretty good.

But you know a lot of people drink alcohol with all these artificial colors and congeners and additives Which add to the hangover the next day when you get pure ethanol with some water and you're hydrating at the same time To make it primal. I would say you gotta earn it. Okay, if you earn it, it's primal psychedelics primal uber eats subprimal super subprime. Yeah, yeah, absolutely deodorant subprimal. Yeah

That's it. That's the subprimal versus primal. If you don't mind, I just want to say, and still the undisputed champion of primal versus subprimal, Liver King. 100%. Thank you for inviting me to play that. Of course. Now it's time for the question I ask every guest. The name of the show is The Pursuit of Wellness because I think wellness looks different for everyone. What does wellness mean to you?

Wellness to me is still chasing excellence, expressing our highest and most dominant form. You know, it's never standing still. Everybody starts stuck somewhere, right? And you have the sickest of the sick, people that cannot get out of bed, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, you name it, right? And so what I would say is wellness to them is just like,

Getting through that day a little bit better, doing some work on the physical, social, emotional, mental, and spiritual. Like if you know what you're made of, these four things, doing some work, making some progress. For me, what it looks like, I would just say is incremental progress every day. And I'm very intentional. What is it that makes me better?

And it's the physical, social, mental, and spiritual. I don't get to work on the spiritual a whole lot, I would say. On Saturdays, we do. But I would say when we share our spirit energy with one another like this, and you can feel that, to me, that's making progress. To me, this conversation will absolutely make me better for the rest of my life. I'm really good at stacking and compounding this kind of stuff. So that's wellness to me.

I love it. Progress. Where can people find you online? Thank you for asking. I think you're the first person to ever ask. Really? Yeah. Oh my God. You know what? I really want people to go to Liver King. My Instagram handle is just at Liver King because the reels can be entertaining, but if you tune into the stories, you're going to see what I model, teach and preach every day. And again, it's simple stuff. It's stack the sun and the earth. I talk about a philosophy every day. I show what I eat.

You know, I'm talking about how to get good sleep, how to do thermal pressures, how we bond. So I would really love for people to join me on the journey and tune into the stories on my Instagram. Thank you so much, Liver King. Thank you, Greg, for joining us. This was a great conversation and I can't wait for your podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you. Liver King, out. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next.

I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our Bloom Greens to. Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week.