Alyson Stoner On Child Stardom, Tools For Stress & Setting Boundaries, And Overall Happiness
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The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi guys, it's Mari and you're listening to The Pursuit of Wellness.

Guys, today's episode blew me away. We have Alison Stoner in the studio, who you may recognize from Cheaper by the Dozen, Camp Rock, Step Up, all of our childhood favorites. She recently has been speaking about her experience in the toddler to train rec

pipeline. She made a video speaking about her experience and all of the trauma she's had since her child's stardom. Now, Alison is an advocate for mental health. She shares tools on how to manage emotions and

stress, and overall wellbeing. She has her own app called Movement Genius. Her overall mission is incredible. And in this episode, she gets really candid with us about her story. We hear details of her experience that I don't believe she shared anywhere else.

And I'd like to say, although not many of us can relate to the child stardom world, she shared so many useful tools that even I could relate to with my own personal experience with mental health issues. And I know so many of you will relate to as well, just in terms of identity confusion, eating disorders, trauma.

trauma, overall happiness, and more. So this is a really insightful episode. Alison is so well-spoken and I can't wait to see what you guys think.

Today on the show, I am honored to be joined by the amazing Alison Stoner, who you may remember from some of your favorite movies, such as Cheaper by the Dozen, Camp Rock, Step Up, and more. Since then, Alison has spoken about her experience in the toddler-to-trainwreck system that exists in the world of child stardom.

Today, she's an actor, founder, advocate for mental health and social impact. She is the perfect guest for this podcast as she's clearly been on her own pursuit of wellness over the past few years. I'm excited to dive deep and hear more about it. Alison, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me. This is incredible. I listened to every episode that's out on the way here. No, you didn't. I did. Oh, you're probably so sick of me by now. Not even. But I feel like we've bonded and this is where it gets strange because you haven't met me, but I know you. Well, I've been researching you for two days, so I'm also very used to you at this point. And I do feel like even though your story is very unique and individual to you,

myself and everyone listening can relate in some way. Of course. And I think that's what's so amazing about this whole thing. Of course. I mean, the human experience, right? Like we have...

different minds and bodies and patterns. But ultimately, we have to learn how to understand what stories we're telling through our mind and body every day and how to find tools to manage life. And yeah, I mean, it's something that drives me. And so when I saw your podcast, I was like, we need to chat. That really made my whole day. And

I was shocked again by how much overlap we have. I can't wait to get into like the mind-body connection, all the trauma work. If it's okay with you, before we talk about all the amazing work you're doing today, can we go all the way back? How did young Alison get into the entertainment industry? Right. So at three years old, I was enrolled in local performing arts schools. And then by seven, I went to a convention, sort of,

with no intention other than to provide an interesting experience for a young kid where I performed and competed against other young performers. And the feedback was very positive. And we didn't really know what that meant other than, you know, I'm glad that I'm hitting my mark and following the choreography well. But they recommended trying a short period in Los Angeles, meeting with Asians, going on auditions, if you were lucky.

potentially pursuing a professional career. Now, no one in my family is from entertainment and we did not have a roadmap. And I think that's some of the reason that we weren't prepared for all of the

stressful situations that were about to unfold. And in the moment, things are so high paced, so fast paced, so high intensity, full of surprises that you don't really have a chance to acclimate. You're just trying to keep up.

And of course, my mom is likely trying to be protective and supportive. And I have sisters who are back in Ohio or at the time were still back in Ohio. So there's family dynamics. Now you're not in school anymore because you booked a job, which is exciting. But now it's kind of alienating because most other kids can't relate.

And then you experience fame and that's bizarre when you walk outside and someone has a photo of you that they kept in their car trunk in case they met you. And then you sign it and they sell it on eBay the next day. I mean, just bizarre experiences, right? So I was fortunate to get to participate in tons of different films and projects for still to this day, over 20 years. But what was happening behind the scenes was

was this accumulation of health challenges, some that were visible, many that were not. And so that sparked my interest in healing, in therapy, in studying the mind-body connection, even getting some certifications, and then examining what other people in the world were experiencing and figuring out what's the best way to help support people

in their lived circumstance. Might be a very different canvas than mine, but fundamentally, we all have a nervous system that got some early programming that might lead to anxiety or depression or other health issues that we're now battling every day. And like, what would it mean for us to know tools on the spot to be able to reduce that stress and then also understand

set ourselves up to be able to tolerate the necessary discomfort of life, to be resilient, to actually, you know, actualize our potential, right? So all of these big ideas really were sparked from my behind the scenes experience in entertainment.

I also think the identity piece is so interesting. You said in your video, which I loved, even a year ago I watched it, where you mentioned that at that young age, you're still differentiating between reality and imagination anyway. How does that manifest in regular off-screen Alison as an identity confusion? Sure, sure.

Yes, I'm glad you bring that up because when we're talking about our childhood experiences, a lot of us forget to contextualize the exploration itself.

in terms of child developmental phases. So cognitively, from zero to two, you're still in sensory motor land. You're literally making sense of the world just through your senses, not language, not complex processing. Then you have two to seven, which is when I got into the industry. And like you said, you don't have an individual sense of self yet. You're still basically...

your personality is subsumed in your main caregiver's identity and or the patterns that are modeled around you, the values that are instilled in you. And then you have like, you know, seven to 11, which is another developmental curve and, you know, 12 and beyond. And if we don't pay attention to the fact that

our brains couldn't even process using logic until a certain age. We forget that like the stuff that comes up for us in later years where it feels like it makes no sense. It's like, yeah, exactly. Because you literally did not have the mental capacity to make rational sense of your experience. So in terms of identity formation,

I really think that I just adapted to this concept of being a chameleon because every day I was making myself available to adults who had really intimate access into my mind, my body, my emotions. And we would, for the job, manipulate our emotional state. We would talk about things through the character's eyes. And my mind didn't know the difference, right? So-

It's fascinating. And it's been a beautiful journey for

of understanding that I have a voice and that I can set boundaries and assert needs. But really quickly, it was so interesting. I had this confidential conversation with a bunch of other kid actors, and I sort of knew some themes that were probably shared, but the one that surprised me and probably shouldn't have now that I think of it is that most of us, if not all of us, never learned that

we had a voice and that we could assert our needs. So when I see young performers now, I'm like, what would it mean for us to talk about self-advocacy? For young people to know like, hey, you can actually say, please don't touch my body that way when you put the mic pack on or I'll do it for you. I can do that. I know how to clip something on my pocket. So there's just so much room to improve the system

And also I have compassion that like the system wasn't designed with kids or well-being in mind. So like we're going to have to rethink how we approach things in every industry because it was designed just to make money and just to get the job done. Right. So, you know, human beings, not human doings kind of thing.

If you guys saw me in 2017, you probably wouldn't recognize me. I was living with deep depression and anxiety. My borderline personality disorder was pretty much running my life. My health was deteriorating. I had gained over 60 pounds and I was really looking for a way to gain control back. And that's where I found fitness and nutrition. I was looking for a way to gain control back.

specifically nutrition really helped me start from a better base point. It helped me have better energy, better mood, a better outlook on life and more clarity. And that's when I realized I really wanted to spread this message. And I came up with Bloom Nutrition, which is my supplement company. My goal from the beginning was to help women bloom into their best selves. Health completely changed my life. And I wanted to give the same gift to women following me in my community. I

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Hi guys, my name is Sarah Nicole and I am the host of the Papaya Podcast, where each week we dish out some sweetness mixed in with some seeds of wisdom all through candid conversations in a very real and tangible way. I want everyone to know that they're not alone and that we share in these experiences called life. And sometimes when we get to know somebody else's story, it changes ours a little bit as well. So I want you to tune in with us on Mondays. Subscribe, rate and review it and keep these conversations going with us. You can tune in behind the scenes at

the papaya podcast and the birds papaya on Instagram as well. Can't wait to see you next week.

It's so interesting what you say about becoming a chameleon because obviously I was not a child actor, but I can relate in so many ways. I have borderline personality disorder and a key symptom of BPD is having a lack of identity and kind of chameleoning to any person, any situation you're in. And I've only recently, as of the last year or two...

started to come into my own body and brain. Wow. And kind of realized I missed out on like eight years because I was chameleoning to other people. And I think a lot of people listening will also relate to that feeling and that feeling of not having a voice or being able to set a boundary. Right. Yeah. And I know I have several loved ones who are living with BPD.

And even just the sense of, for them at least, it seems like semi-frequently you're cycling through a loss of a self. And it's this constant like, okay, now I'm this. And no, I'm not that. Now I'm this. And for some of my loved ones,

learning to have some sort of foundational ground grounding point has been critical but even then you still have to understand hey my mind is going to continue to work differently so i can't grasp for certain things if it doesn't actually match how i'm designed like it's constant adaptation

I'm curious what you think of this. It's a little bit controversial, but current day child stardom looks a little different. Like now we have famous YouTube families, influences with kids, kids who are a big piece of their content. I even see them used in brand deals, monetization. Right. Yeah.

Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I have many thoughts. And when I share my podcast in the coming months, I want to focus an entire episode on the digital landscape. So I want to start by saying that

Most people don't know that child entertainers do not fall under the same category in the law as child laborers. So there's federal laws that are supposed to, you know, protect children laborers. However, entertainers are exempt from that. So kids,

Kids have to rely on each state to make their own regulations specifically for child entertainers. Currently, 17 states don't even have a single law. So that means kids on set are actually less protected than anyone else on that set. So to know that that's the state of the traditional media landscape and we need to catch up

to that degree still, imagine the digital landscape, there are even fewer rules. So no one is approaching this with the forethought of the lasting impact on these children. We easily see with research the impact of using social media just on our own mental health, even if we're just consumers of the app.

And so just imagine all of the additional layers that a young kid influencer is experiencing when professional kid performers already statistically have much higher rates of suicidality, of mental health challenges, substance abuse and addiction, relational abuse, like

The facts are there, but technology is moving so quickly and most parents are not

pausing first to consider what the implications are. So yes, I have a lot of thoughts about that. And I'm hoping that as mental health becomes a more common conversation, that we'll start to update how we approach everyday behaviors. And so it won't feel so segmented. Like now I go to therapy and talk about mental and emotional health, but then I go outside and I

scroll for three hours, we'll start to see the interconnectedness of everything and go, okay, how can we maintain some semblance of wellness in all dimensions and domains of life? And not just physical and emotional wellness, but also social wellness, environmental wellness, financial wellness, like really the wholeness of being human.

Speaking of financial wellness, how does that work when you are under the age of 10 making money? Like, where does it go? Do you know that you're making money? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's different for every family, right? So I'm sure some families kept that conversation completely under the rug. Others, sometimes like the mother is an accountant, so they're super proactive about teaching the kid as they start making money. There's a lot of different things at play. There are supposed to be and are some legal protections where certain portions of money get set aside. However, there are so many loopholes, including your parent

or your team could enroll themselves onto your payroll as a salaried employee. And that happened to me. So I was not only commissioning my team and only seeing, you know, half of the check anyway, but then I started noticing on the ledgers additional sums of money leaving my bank account every month for years, even if the people weren't even working on the team anymore.

And apparently when I was 10 years old, I agreed to an adult saying, yeah, I think I'm going to help you out in this way. And in return, I'll just take this amount, right? So there's like, it's so dicey. It makes my heart hurt hearing that. Just the lack of control. Yeah. That must feel like I can't even imagine. Yeah, there's I think it's also sad how like I was so financially illiterate.

And I also didn't have a typical education, but even in traditional schooling, it sounds like financial literacy is not necessarily a part of the curriculum. And so, you know, you can feel quite disempowered, but then also simultaneously for young performers, on the one hand, you know, people might be taking advantage of us, but on the other hand, we have this

unusual amount of access to opportunity, potential wealth, material luxuries, and a different lifestyle that a young person is not, I guess, unless you're born into a wealthy family, is not really experiencing. So there's this dichotomy to navigate. And

I guess, thankfully, overall, I didn't know I was making that money. So never got into material goods. And when I learned that I actually didn't have as much money as I thought I would for working that much, like, that's cool because I like hand-me-downs. But now as a founder, I am for sure getting to evolve my relationship to money, to worth, to value. Where were your mind and body at this point health-wise?

at the end of your industry journey? Yeah. So around 18, my health really collapsed.

and it was through the vehicle of my eating disorder. It intensified to a degree where, you know, I was losing my hair and my skin was very sallow. My eyes were sunken in and I had no energy, couldn't focus. And all I ever wanted to do was just be healthy. You know, I just had such a skewed view of what that was because of the industry and health and diet culture. And so around 18, I sought treatment

And coming out of that, I knew it was a line in the sand for me because it was very uncomfortable and hard to recognize that I had been pretty much dissociated for however many years and that if I wanted to feel again, it was going to be intense and uncomfortable and it'd have to happen super slowly. So I had to ask myself, do I want to just get

into the industry right away again? Or do I want to leave it? Who am I without it? My brain is literally wired to only know this map of reality. So...

I chose to face the fear of leaving the industry. Even though I continued working, I slowly started saying no to auditions and changing the kind of opportunities. And that period is when I slowly started reentering my body. And what I'll say is I was diagnosed with alexithymia, so literally could not

feel or identify emotions and sensations in my body, like very much offline. And

What was one of the hardest emotions to reconnect with was happiness. I felt for some reason that being happy or joyful would cause me to be vulnerable, that someone could sneak in and do something if I was smiling and not paying attention. I had spent so many years being hypervigilant and fearful and not trusting anyone that tapping into happiness was

It's like, I feel foolish. I feel childish. And I've been an adult since I was a young kid on set. So I can't be goofy. I can't be happy. Someone will take advantage of me. And so that was so eye-opening in therapy when my therapist would simply ask me to notice like,

Call to mind a lovely, safe place. And for years, I was like, I don't know what that is. I can't do it. I'm not ready. So it's been a slow process, but it's so worth it. It's so worth it. It is such a slow process and it takes a lot of trust in your therapist. I think finding the right therapist is also so key. Yeah. Someone who can understand you and make you feel safe and comfortable. Mm-hmm.

I know the healing journey is so long and there's so many tools on your journey from then to now. What are some standouts for you that you could recommend to people listening? Yeah. So the standouts are actually the basis of my company, Movement Genius. It was because when I looked at my...

mental health apps and techniques, they only focused neck up. It was talk therapy. It was meditation. It was medication. And I tried all of those and they can be really helpful. However, because I wasn't including my body in the process, I still had these deep patterns and habits and I was left feeling stuck in between therapy sessions, overwhelmed, like numb.

disconnected from what's called the somatic experience. So I started looking into somatics and I knew that it wasn't going to be one or the other. It wasn't just like either listen to your head or listen

or listen to your body. It was going to be this relationship of both and noticing how they affect each other in real time. And so I started learning specific skills that went bottom up and top down. And some of them were, you know, at first just grounding so that I could establish a sense of safety before I tried to explore something that was really, you know, intense. And then

Other techniques were like top down using, you know, affirmations and cognitive behavioral therapy, reframing and repeating things until my nervous system could say, okay, you're right. We actually aren't in danger. But all of these stress relief techniques, the mental health tools are now a part of the base library on Movement Genius. And it's been incredible because the people who are using them are seeing like,

This is the kind of empowerment we've been wanting to feel. Like we actually know what to do when we feel ourselves about to panic. And we know what tools work for us. Not just you, not just the other person, but my nervous system, my mindset. And that's like gives me chills. Like, oh, I want everyone to experience that empowerment. It's like...

especially in how stressful modern day life is and how complex the crises are that we're facing. These tools are no longer optional.

their baseline routine tools and techniques to manage what it means to be human in 2023. And I think not a lot of people realize how much trauma sits in the physical body. I didn't know that personally, and I have a really hard time connecting with my body. And

you listened to a couple of my episodes, fitness has been life-changing for me when it comes to dealing with trauma. But I also think movement in another form, it doesn't have to be exercise. It doesn't have to be about working out or the way you look. It can simply be a movement that can relieve stress in the moment, which is incredible. Yeah. So on that topic, a couple of things.

Our bodies have built-in biological responses to stress, including, yes, the fight or flight response, but also stress.

the ability to shake out the stress so it doesn't store in your body as trauma. And so what I like to remind people is that if your body can wind itself up, it also has tools to wind down. You just maybe haven't practiced them or learned them because it's pretty common in our society to just say like, yeah, it's normal to be stressed, like tense shoulders, chronic pain, like, you know, digestive issues that are probably...

not just random allergies, but also connected to all of this and potentially some trauma. Yeah. But movement, really quickly, when I mentioned the sensory motor stage from zero to two, remember, we didn't have language, but we were experiencing for the first time the basic sense of what we were going to think about the world, how we were going to

people. Are people safe or dangerous? Is the world safe or is it dangerous? And we didn't have language to process that. So when you take a somatic movement-oriented approach to processing, sometimes that helps fill in the gaps because you get to access the stuff that was stored in your body from zero to two or at earlier ages in ways that like

logic wasn't yet online for. So having grace and patience with yourself and going at the pace that

you know, is honorable to you and your journey is super important. But I invite people to like, if they want something more practical at first, start with like just the stress relief techniques because, you know, you don't have to like dig too deep. You're just like learning the mechanics. But then also if you're ready to understand the story that you embody daily, start looking at those mind-body tools, many of which are on our site.

I love the quote, we're most powerfully positioned to serve the person you once were. Do you feel like you are living out your purpose now with Movement Genius? I do. And I hope it continues to evolve. But I feel confident that...

Movement and Genius represents the best attempt at pulling everything I've learned using the access and position that I have and collaborating with the people who are the best experts to serve as many people as possible in a real way. Yeah. Not like superficial, but we're talking like

really change your life and your life, not this template. Get rid of this standard of what change your life transformation looks like. No. Well-being looks different for everyone. It feels different every day. What's your life story happening in your mind and body? And what are the tools you need? That specialized, personalized experience, yes, I think is the

humanizing essence that I felt I was missing as a kid when I was just another person in line. And so now it's like, yeah, how can this be really about you, the essence of you, so that you can go on to start your company or fulfill your purpose-driven mission? This might be a difficult question, but if you could go back knowing what you know now, would you do it all over again?

I used to say that, you know, everything happens for a reason. And because of these experiences, I've learned X, Y, Z, and therefore I wouldn't change it. But I want to change my stance on that because I don't wish any of my early negative or adverse childhood experiences on anyone. And I know that you've experienced things from younger age that sometimes

Still stick with you influence who you are today. So no, I it's not that I want the absence of pain and suffering I'm all for learning how to embrace the full spectrum of human experience But I would not put myself voluntarily or any child through that level of toxic stress and repeated

forms of trauma, I would try to find a more balanced way to introduce someone to the world. What's next for you? What are you looking forward to? Yeah. So our main focus, my sister is my co-founder, and our main focus is really deepening our community. So if anyone listening is like, I need those tools, it's only $10 to sign up. That's the whole thing we're all about. I'm going to sign up. Yes, please. Today. Today.

Yeah. And like, let me know specifically what you're looking for. Make a little playlist for you. But we're really focused on our weekly live classes. So we bring in therapists, experts. We cover wonderful topics. We do these big quarterly workshops on a theme. So we're just like really wanting to make

a robust community experience. And then I have my podcast that I'll be releasing, which unpacks the toddler to train wreck pipeline in detail. And I spill, you know, everything that I've, you know, to this point avoided saying out loud. So yeah, it's a, I think it's a year of like definitely hard work. You know what it means to run a company, but also, um,

I'm like, yeah, I'm in, I'm where I need to be right now. I can tell. And I can just see in your face how much this all means to you. And it's incredible to watch you do something that clearly brings you so much purpose and see you living so authentically. Thank you. Now it's time for the question we ask every guest. I started this podcast because I believe everyone's pursuit of wellness looks different. What does wellness mean to you? Hmm.

Wellness means a lot of things, but in this very moment, the dimension of wellness I'm learning about is community wellness. I can isolate myself like no one's business. I moved out to the desert to be alone in silence and realizing that

how interdependent we truly are and how important it is to understand the needs of people around me. And when we seek solutions for well-being, to be mindful that we're elevating well-being in our community as well. So I think the social

component to wellness is what's most dominant in my mind. I love it. Where can people find you and Movement Genius online? Yes, you can follow me at Alison Stoner. And more excitingly, you can follow my company at Movement Genius. And then if you want to sign up, we can give you a link to put in the show notes and

And then if anyone forgets between now and going to the show notes, you can just go to movementgenius.com. Thank you, Alison. This was awesome. Thank you.

Thank you for listening to today's episode. Go comment on my last Instagram at Mari Llewellyn with the guest you want to see next. I'll be picking one person from the comments to send our bloom greens to. Make sure you hit follow so you never miss my weekly episodes. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share and leave a review. See you next week.

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.