Fire Department Bandit Shares Unbelievable Tales of Trap House Life and Prison Survival | Aaron Garnes
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I grew up in like a middle class, like I never really wanted for everything. I wasn't rich by any means, but like I always had toys at Christmas time and like I never knew if we were poor or not, you know what I mean? Does that make any sense? Yeah, of course. Yeah, Christmases were always good. I always had like way more than I could ever want as a child. So no complaints in like the first eight years of my life. After that, it's like...

You had both parents? Until I was about probably 10. I think it's when they separated. And then, yeah, mom went one way. Dad went the other way. Mom, good. Dad, not so good. Kind of like a...

plummeted into drugs and addiction. My dad was always kind of like a drug addict on and off throughout my life. And then how would he would have like a year long bits where like you do good. And then, yeah, just, uh, it would go downhill from there. What about siblings? Uh, yeah, I got, I got like a brother and I got a sister and they're kind of like their own weird, uh, things too. My sister was pretty young when my parents were split. So like, uh,

When they got divorced, we all kind of picked a parent, lived with the parent. I chose dad because he's fun. You can do whatever you want. Sister went with the mom who's like about rules and all that good stuff. And yeah, that's what was – that was probably my first downfall in life was that right there, that decision. Do you know if your dad was doing drugs while you were conceived? It would make sense to me. Yeah, I could probably –

Like, my mom would probably say that. My dad always had—his thing was, like, liquid cough syrup. He loved liquid cough syrup. And then got into some, like, legal trouble for writing fake prescriptions for legal cough syrup, which was apparently pretty easy to do back in the day. Yeah. Like, it wasn't a thing. So do you think those addiction traits got passed down to you from him, looking back on it now? Probably, yeah. I could—yeah, like, it wasn't much, like, when my first drug was, like, introduced to my face. It wasn't, like—

It didn't take much. Like, I was like, all right, let's go. So, yeah, there wasn't, like, much debating on it. So it's probably somewhere deeply instilled in me that I don't even see. So when was that first time, when you were 10 around? Yeah, so my dad, he loved drugs. He got into, like, as the divorce happened, drugs.

He got into, like... I would notice my dad being in the bathroom a lot more. Like, he would come home from work, and then he would spend the rest of the evening in the bathroom. I wouldn't see him again until the next morning when he's going to work. And then, um...

Yeah, so we had one bathroom in our house, and I was just like, that's the way it was. So I'd go pee outside or whatever had to be done. But then I remember one day he went to work, and I just got curious. I was probably 12 at the time, so weed started to be a thing. So maybe I started snooping around his room, and then I would find...

random drug paraphernalia that I wasn't yet hip to. Like I remember finding some chore boy in his room one day and, uh, didn't know what that was, but my first automatic like thing was like, I got to try that. So, um, yeah, just dumb 13 year old me like finds like a crack stem and put some just chore in there. And I'm like thinking I'm doing something, just smoking the chore. And like, I was like, yeah, this is the, this is the crappiest drug

people do this? So do you think looking back on it that if you had a father that wasn't an addict himself that your life would have turned out differently? Like if you just had a normal dad, would you have ever been exposed to that? Probably not. Like

Like I probably would have been exposed to like the normal elements like drinking and some marijuana. But like heroin and crack cocaine were pretty like, you know, what 12-year-old in 1990s knew what heroin and crack was. You know what I mean? So maybe I would have like experimented on those roads but probably not the harder drugs. They wouldn't become so normal to me like later on in life. Yeah. Did you end up graduating high school? I did. So I lived with my dad for a while.

And then, so it was like my mom was in a different town, my dad's here. Yeah, I'm like slowly but surely like not caring anymore because my dad doesn't care what I do. I can smoke cigarettes, I can drink at his house, I can smoke weed. So eventually like, yeah, I just start smoking weed and then that becomes like a heavy thing. And then, yeah, then my dad gets involved in loan sharks. He owes some pretty terrible people some money.

Like he's never around anyway when he's at work. So these people like come looking for their money one day. They knock on the door. My dad's not home. I am there. And like they see me sitting inside the house. So they just start like breaking the house and yeah, just destroying my house while I'm inside of it. So that right there was like the breaking point where my mom stepped in and was like,

you know what, I think it's time for you to come live with me. What were you thinking when that was going on? I don't know, because, like, my dad told me, like...

He minimized the loan sharks. I didn't know what that was at the time, but he said like, yeah, I owe some people some money. They're probably going to come looking for it. Just don't answer the door. Worst case scenario, run out the back door. So that's what I did. Like they knocked. I'm like, all right, cool. I'm good. And then like when shit started flying through the windows, I'm hauling ass out the back door, scared to death, man. Holy shit. Scared to death. Yeah, it was terrifying. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. And did you ever end up going off to college? Later on in life. Like after I moved in with my mom, she was a completely different city. And that was like a, I don't know, like I had not a good life, but I had friends already here. And then I just pick up and go over here. And so like high school, starting off high school was pretty terrible for me. I didn't know anybody. It's a small town. Everybody's all clipped up already. So yeah.

My thing throughout my life is I've always been obsessed with, like, WWF wrestling, like, TV wrestling. So I started, like, getting into these, like, weirder offshoots of wrestling. It's called Japanese, like, hardcore wrestling where they would use, like, barbed wire thumbtacks. And it's fucking insane, man. So, like, my thought at school was, like, to try to show off and, like, get some friends. I would, like, start sticking myself with thumbtacks in school and, like, that would be cool.

And then I just end up being like the weird guy that sticks himself with thumbtacks and like stabs himself in math class. So would they just be sitting out of you or? Like, so I'd be, I remember like at lunchtime very vividly, like there was like a pin board and I was just trying to like show off to some chick probably. And I pulled him out. I was like, hey, check this out. And just started like poking away. And yeah, like.

not the reaction I was looking for, man. Like it was, it served the opposite purpose for me. Did any of your friends or teachers or principals report you to like your mom? Yeah, so I didn't have any friends at this point. And then I remember sitting in my math class and like wrestling to bleed. They always like take a razor blade to their head. So I thought like,

this would be good. I'll do that in math class. So I'm sitting in math class, and I pull out this razor blade, and for some reason, like, yeah, this is going to be my nizzin' scene. Yeah, this is going to be the climax. This is what's going to get me the attention. So I bust out this razor blade, and I cut my head open in math class, and then, like, nobody's reacting to me, and then, like, the teacher leaves, and I get called down to the...

guidance counselor's office and she's like so I hear you're you're cutting yourself in math class and I'm like No, what's I don't know what she's talking about. Meanwhile blood pouring down my face and then she called my mom and then that was a whole yeah, my mom thought I was like suicidal or No, I'm just trying to get friends mom. Did they get you help at all? I don't know because I probably didn't like want it because I wasn't like having a suicidal or hurt myself

I didn't want to do it because I like hurting myself. I was just doing it as like a, look at me, please. Holy cow. Yeah. So what happens next? So at this time too, so I'm like, again, I'm weirdly obsessed with wrestling. I am watching TV one day and I see a commercial that says like, hey, you want to try out to be a pro wrestler? Call this number. So I called the number and I'm like 16 at the time, maybe a little younger. And, uh,

Yeah, they're like, no, bro, you got to be an adult to do this. So I just kept bugging them over and over and over and over until they finally were like, all right, well, you get your parents to sign off on it. We'll let you come in and train and do the whole bit. So that's what I did. And that became like the obsession for the next few years of my life. So you actually became a wrestler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did it like not very like large. Like it's like high school gyms and armories. But like, yeah, at 16, 17, like –

I was obsessed with wrestling and I got to go around doing it and like meet all these guys like I grew up watching on TV that are now kind of like washed up and yeah so that's like I was living my best life.

So did you end up going to college for that? No. I mean, I know you didn't right away, but did you want to go to college for wrestling? Is that even an option? No, because high school wrestling and TV wrestling are completely separate beasts. You know what I mean? Collegiate wrestling, I don't want to say it's real athleticism, but you have to know the science of taking a man down and blah, blah, blah. This is just showmanship. I don't want to say it's not real, but there's no real...

Sport going on. Yeah, like all wrestling and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What is that legitimate or I mean it hurts like but like everything's predetermined like Me and you are supposed to be on the show tonight a promoter will come and be like hey You're gonna go in. I don't care how you do it. And then you just fill in the blank from there So like right cool you're going over what's your finishing move?

So they know what the finishing, do they know all that? Oh, wow. So is that title championship belt shit even anything? It's all like, yeah, it doesn't mean anything. No, it's just like a glorified nothing. Yeah. So I did that for a while and I got pretty decent at it. And like it started, so I'm in high school and I start doing that. And I'm kind of like, I'm not involved in anything in the school. I do that and I'm starting to make like a little bit of money doing it on the weekends, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

And then it kind of cut me short one day. I was wrestling one of those guys I was telling you about I grew up watching. He kind of dropped me on my head, which ended up breaking my neck. And I didn't even know about that. So my dad came back in the picture at some point. And now he's like, he loves, he supports the wrestling thing, but he's like feeding me narcotics.

Anytime I get hurt, anytime. And yeah, he'd throw me a Percocet or whatever. And then that became like, hmm, I kind of like these, you know? How do you not know your neck was broken? Isn't it? Because like, I don't know. I don't know if I have like a pain tolerance or what it is, but like,

I'm just kind of like, when you're doing the wrestling thing, you're just kind of used to being sore all the time. So it just felt like I had a chink in my neck the whole time. So I'm like, it'll go away eventually. And then, yeah, I became hooked on these painkillers my dad's giving me. He runs out, so one day I do go to the hospital, and I'm like, hey, my neck's hurting, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, yeah, it should be, man. It's broken. I was like, oh, cool. So then they prescribe painkillers.

just ridiculous amounts of narcotics. And that's what starts the downfall. That's what's, yeah, that's what's the beginning of the end of my journey. I thought when you break your neck, you die. No, no. Like if you like rip it from your whatever's back there, your spinal cord. No, it's just like you can break a vertebrae or, yeah. So it's like a part of your neck that's after the vertebrae. Yeah, you like chip the bone in your neck that's holding it together, yeah. It was pretty, yeah, it was pretty ugly. But I didn't think it was a big deal.

So like I can't really do anything at this point. My dad has an apartment. He's like, you can come live here. I'm like, great.

So I go, I move in with my dad and it's just, we're just, it becomes like a drug den eventually. Your mom didn't want to prevent you moving in from your dad? My mom always tried her damnedest to like steer me away from that. But you know, when you're a kid, like I don't want to do anything that's not fun. You know what I mean? So like dad's house was fun. You could do whatever you want. I could have parties over there. He'd buy the beer for the party. Anything goes. Mom, like I couldn't even bring girls to the house. Yeah.

in high school, you know what I mean? So yeah, dad was always like, uh, the go-to. Did you end up finding like a normal job or anything? I had like a job as like a front desk guy at a hotel for a while. So I was living with my dad and like, uh, you know, I was paying like my share of the rent. Um, and he's like doing his thing. And then, uh, he ends up getting cancer, gets like, uh,

I don't know, some bad cancer, but they give them a ridiculous amount of pain pills. So eventually, like, now I'm buying off my dad, and then eventually, like, I ran out of money to stop going to work because, like, I can't perform without these pills. And then, yeah, it's just an insane cycle for about six years of just leeching off my dad and getting drugs and doing nothing with my life. You probably saw some insane stuff as a hotel...

Gas person, right? Oh, yeah, because it was like a shady hotel, too. It was like a weird—I remember being propositioned by women, like prostitutes that would come in and say, hey, I'll do this for you if you give me a room for a couple hours. And to a young kid, I'm like, oh, that sounds pretty tempting. Luckily, I never jumped. I was always too consumed with drugs to worry about women. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, my dad, he gets cancer. Yeah.

And in the meantime, like I start I go from like snorting these pills to like shooting these pills I don't know what i'm doing at this point. So i'm just muscle popping Um pain pills i'm just getting abscesses everywhere Uh getting sick all the time Um, then my dad dies of like a blood disease. He gets this weird blood infection dies I almost died a week later and then um

Yeah, so now I can't leech off my dad, so I'm basically homeless now. I'm losing my apartment because, like, I didn't pay for anything. It's in his name. So I'm homeless. Uh...

on the streets of Columbus now. How is he supporting himself financially? He's a veteran, so he gets a disability check, and then we're selling. So they're prescribing my dad, it was 400 of the strongest pain pills you could possibly get a month. Like 400 a month is absolutely insane to give somebody. So we would sell 50 of them, make rent, blah, blah, blah, and just party on the rest for months.

you know, the rest of the month until prescription time came around. And he didn't leave you anything when he passed? No. Money-wise or anything? Yeah. No, he left me with a hell of a drug habit. Wow. Yeah. So, yeah, it was pretty, pretty...

Pretty nasty point of life, man. Did you ever reflect on that maybe his addiction came from his time in the service? That's where he started doing drugs. Like, he's in Vietnam. So, like, that's where, like, the OG Vietnam people, you know, like, that's where the heroin came from back in the day. So that's, like, how he got started. It was, like, went to Vietnam, got strung out, and then came back, and then just up and down since then. Man.

Yeah, it was pretty. It's interesting seeing the domino effect and how it affects generations to come after that. Afterwards, I know. Yeah. So now you're homeless. What year is this? This is like 2012. And you're how old? Probably, I don't know. I also had 12, like 28 maybe. 28. Yeah, 28. And this is like the peak of your addiction. Yeah. Well, it's like the lowest, like where I'm doing the most.

I've ever consumed in my life, yes. Had you ever been arrested at this point? No. Wow, you had a pretty far run not being arrested as an addict. I know. Most addicts you hear about coming into simple arrests and whatnot. Yeah.

I guess because your dad kind of sheltered you. He was like my sugar daddy of drugs. You know what I mean? But here's where the down comes immediately after that well's run dry. So now I'm on my own, and I don't know shit about heroin. I don't know anything about the streets.

So I'm just trying to like figure it out like okay, where do I get more of these pills? I can't afford these pills because I'm homeless. So obviously the next best thing heroin right the cheaper alternative and then yeah do that and that's it's just a wrap for me. I'm in homeless shelters and

Yeah. Shelters for most of my adult life, actually, for the next, yeah, 10 years or so. You just went 10 years inside shelters? Off and on the streets. Yeah. Like, uh, yeah, shelters are, I, I spent two years living in an, uh, abandoned warehouse. That

That was, yeah, it was a low. But, yeah, mostly shelters in the streets of Columbus is where— Is it like what we see in TV where it's just a bunch of addicts in these, like, warehouses all just, you know, doing drugs and— Yeah, for the most part, yeah. It's just a bunch of—

Yeah, a bunch of, like, people that they're, like, most animalistic in a room and, like, trying to survive. So you're always constantly on the lookout for, like, you know, it's kind of like jail, but I'd say worse. Yeah, because, like, somebody's going to steal from you or somebody's going to, like, beat you up in the bathroom or just, yeah, take advantage of you somehow, man. What was maybe one of the strangest or craziest things you saw in one of these drug houses? Yeah.

Oh, the trap houses, man. So, eventually, like, I would get there to, like, I found, you know, a place where I frequented and would buy drugs from all the time. You can go in and do them.

Um, but I remember, yeah, there's, this is, I still feel bad to this day. There's this one kid, uh, he's like a Somalian kid. He just came in and bought his drugs. He was doing them, got into some tiff with a girl that was in there. She ended up stabbing him in the head with a knife. Right. And this kid is like freaking out cause blood's coming down everywhere. Um,

And he's like making a scene. So we like pitch him outside and there's a hospital probably a block down the road from this house. So we're like, yeah, just go, go to the hospital and come back when you're done. And he's like freaking out outside being loud and yelling and blah, blah, blah. So like the trap guy that's running the place was like, I'll give 20 bucks whoever goes out there and shuts him up.

And I was like, I ran out of drugs at that point. So I'm like, 20 bucks is 20 bucks. So I got there and I'm like, dude, please be quiet. Please be quiet. And he's like still raising a fuss. So like I had to like punch this poor kid out. He's like just like a hundred pound Somalian kid that's strung out. And yeah, so I had to like beat the shit out of him and like make him go to the hospital. And.

And it was god-awful, man. What happened to him? I don't know. I think he went and got sutured up, and then I don't think I saw him again after that. Does he report to the cops and the cops come to them? No. Somehow now. He never says that. Never said a word, yeah. Wow.

Yeah. So then when's the first time you actually end up getting arrested yourself? Okay, so around 2012, I had, like, fake stints of sobriety, right, where I would just, like, clean up to please the people in my life. My mom, who I've done all this dirt to, like, my entire life stint, like, has been just, like, no, fuck you, okay?

So she gets me – she works at a fire station in downtown Columbus. Doing what? She runs the museum part. There's a fire museum part of it. So she sets me up with a job in an office at this museum, which is inside of a fire station, as a raising donations person kind of deal.

So, um, that job probably lasts maybe 60 days before I screw it up. Um, again, I'm just like doing, I'm fake sobriety at this point. So I'm like my paychecks, I just go buy some pills and I come in and do the work and then the whole bit. Um, I'm not, so yeah, my, my attention is going to buying drugs all the time. I get fired from the job. Um,

So back to the streets I go. And then so here's my drug house. And then here's like the bus that takes me to the homeless shelter. I go buy my drugs and it's like middle of winter. So I'm like, I need to do these drugs immediately. And the only point from here to there was like.

the fire department that I used to work in. And I know like it's open to the public. You can come in and you can just go right into the bathroom. No questions asked, no locked doors, no nothing. So me three nights in a row, I go into this place, I hop into the bathroom, I do my drugs, I get out. Right. So no harm, no foul. Right.

What had been going on at the time is that there's been a strain of break-ins of the fire department people's cars and throwing rocks through windows. So they're watching footage one day and they just happen to see my dumbass walking in. And I do that three nights in a row. And then next thing you know, I'm on the news. They hit me pretty hard with that, man. Yeah.

They, uh, they originally charged me with like a F5 breaking and entering. And then, um, I'm on like, there's a warrant out for me now. And, uh, I make it about two weeks before I'm arrested and then indictments come back. Right. And I'm like, cool. I'm never been in trouble in my life. I'm like, uh,

all right, this is like, I'll be fine. So indictments come back 11 days later and it's, uh, they charged me with three F2 burglaries. Holy cow. Bro. Wait, so did they, they saw you on camera? Do they go to your house or do they wait for you to come back and catch you in the act? No, I'm homeless at this point and they all know it now. So how'd they find you? Um, so they, they put me on the news as this like big, bad fire department bandit, right? Fire department bandit. And then, um, oddly enough, I'm,

homeless, like it's probably a couple months after the event actually happened. And I'm walking into a gas station and apparently one of my old bosses that I used to work for, who I had stole from, and that's why I got fired, like saw me going into the gas station, called the cops. They came and arrested me right there on the spot. Did they do like a whole big scene or was it just a couple cops?

No, it was like, it was probably way more than I deserved. Like, uh, guns drawn. Nah, they didn't do the, they, uh, they just came like probably four cars deep and then, um, yeah, just popped me. Like there wasn't much of a fight, you know what I mean? And it was sad because I had just like found this job that paid cash by the day, just gotten done with an eight hour work day, had a little bit of cash in my pocket, just called my drug dealer and I'm on the way to go meet him, which was like a block down and then bam, cops, cops.

So do you think that that was actually a good thing that happened to you, though, that you got arrested? I don't know. Maybe in hindsight. Like at the time, no. Looking back on it now. Looking back, I say, yeah, that was –

it probably saved my life quite honestly. Cause like I, I didn't really care at that point. Like I wasn't like, I was surprised I had lived as long as I'd lived and made it to that age. So, um, yeah, I just didn't give a shit at that point. Now, since you were both homeless and in prison before, which would you rather be? Oh, that's a toughie. I don't know because, uh,

prison is like, it's kind of nice because like there are drugs to do in there, but like they're expensive drugs that I can't afford. So like I probably, and my entire life, I've probably never been happier than

other than right now than I was in prison, which is weird, I know. I mean, you had your meals, you had showers, you had clothes. I had good meals. I worked in the kitchen. You had a job. A job, yeah. I had some, like, respect in there. And, like, one of my jobs in prison was, like, I had the kitchen job, which was beautiful, right? And then they found out I spoke Spanish. And then I had my GED, so they, like, talked me into working as a GED tutor for the Spanish people.

And then I find out probably much later on into my bit there that the guys I'm tutoring are pretty hardcore Mexican gang members.

So like it was kind of sweet, man. I had it made in the shade. Did they try to recruit you at all? No, they were just like – they respected me and like just – I don't know. For some reason, people are astonished. Spanish people are astonished when you find like a white gringo that can speak a little bit of Spanish. Like they're super impressed by that for some reason. Yeah, you get a little respect for understanding it.

And then like to be able to like try to teach them like, yeah, it was cool, man. I never needed for anything. So do you think that they gave you a hard time about the arrest because they thought you were the person that was doing the vandalism? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. And I've tried to like –

Uh, so I get arrested, right? And then I sit in jail for six months waiting on the court hearings and all that to go through. And then the whole time, like I've never been in trouble in my life. There's no way I'm going to get like anything. I get a slap on the wrist and I'm good. Um, so they offer me like,

And at this point, I don't know anything about the legal system. So the first deal, I'm ready to get out of jail. It was like the worst experience of my life that first time around. So I'm taking whatever they're throwing at me the first deal. So they offer me like this minimum security facility for four and a half months, three years on the shelf and three years probation. What does on the shelf mean?

Oh, like if you fuck up, you go and you do your whole bit. So isn't that the same thing as probation? Kind of, yeah. Or does the probation start after the three years? Because like you're on, yeah, because probation starts after the, yeah. So that's technically like a six-year sentence. Basically, yeah. Six and a half. So I'm just like, I'm just so happy to get out of jail and do anything. So I'm like, let's do that. That sounds like, that sounds great. So you just wrapped this up a few years ago. 2019 officially. Wow. Yeah. Congratulations. Thanks, man. It was, yeah. Yeah.

To not be in the system is such a beautiful thing. Yeah, the system is unfair. Did you – were you stuck in the county jail because you didn't have money to bail yourself out? Yeah, absolutely. How much was your bail for that? My first bond and I felt like – I still feel like it was pretty steep. It was $10,000. And you would have had to come up with what?

A thousand of that. And your mom didn't want to? Fuck no. Her rule ever since I was born, her rule was like, I'm not going to buy you a car. I'm not going to bond you out of jail, right? Tough mom. Tough mom. But in my head, though, here's the insanity of like in my head, you can't go in with your phone, so you don't know any numbers. I know about three phone numbers off the top of my head, and I called everybody. One of the numbers I knew was my old boss that I had ripped off and had like a bad –

I didn't leave good on his, you know, but like in my mind, I justified calling him like, all right, how can I talk him into bonding me out of here? And I tried so hard and nothing, man. Yeah, that's one of the best things I guess they could teach you in school is to memorize your emergency contacts. Know your phone numbers. Yeah, know your phone numbers. Because when I, I mean, when I got to prison, if you don't know your numbers, you're

You're kind of screwed. There's nothing you can do about it. Absolutely nothing you can do about it. I feel like such a dirtbag because I remember I had almost talked my mom into bonding me out one time, right? And then she's like got sketchy about it because like I don't show up to court. She's got to pay all this, right? So she like pulls out on me. So then I started doing like these terrible –

terrible things. Like you should never put a mother through, um, to like earn her sympathy. So I remember like faking like sexual assaults in jail just to have mom, like I called her one day, I was like, mom, they're like, yeah, they're, they're, they're saying they're going to do this to me and do this to me. And like, yeah, they're starting to like, uh, touch on me. And it was so like cringy, pathetic. Now that I look back at it, man, and I feel so terrible about that. Yeah.

Give us a fun prison kitchen story from working in there. Prison kitchen story. I remember, oh, so just like one day I walk in and it's just completely quiet. It's like a normal day. And then next thing you know, it's like these five essays are just pounding on this one black guy, man, just out of nowhere. And it's just the chaos that ensues like everywhere.

put everything on lockdown and trying to clear 100 people out of the cafeteria. And then just, like, seeing this black dude after they, like, just pummeled the shit out of him. Like, I'd never, like, really seen, like, blood and guts like that. But this dude was, like, yeah, he's open. Like, his eyebrows split wide open. Yeah, lips all busted and disgusted. Why'd they do that to him? I don't know. I still don't know why. I'm assuming probably money or something like that. This was at the county jail? No, oh, county jail. This is at the minimum.

Prison, prison. So I go... You went to a minimum, right? I did go to a minimum at first. So I got out of the minimum and then I'm on probation now after that. I'm not good with probation because I still do drugs, right? So I violate and then the judge was like...

So I just did 134 days at the minimum security prison. Yeah, and then I get out, and she sentences me right back to that same facility I just got out of. So I go back again. That's where I meet Lou. And then, again, I fuck it up immediately. So I fuck it up the second time, and then the judge is like, yeah, you're going to prison. Like, I gave you two shots. Like, didn't even try, so you're going to prison for the rest of your time.

And that was another two years almost. That was about, yeah, a little over two years. Wow. Yeah, man. Nothing like that. Like, hmm, two years. Two years doesn't seem long on paper, right? Like you wouldn't think two years is a long time, but like.

Yeah, as like experiencing it, like that's eternity, man. Two years. Now, white guys in Ohio State Prison, do they have to run with anyone? Are there gangs in Ohio? Surprisingly, no. I had more trouble in the county jail with like not being affiliated or, you know, being a solo act or whatever you call it. But like, no, like prison.

Prison, I never had any problems, man. Why do you think that was different in the county jail? Probably because you're in the county jail. Columbus is notoriously famous for having one of the worst jails in America.

I mean, it's like Animal House. Like they barely feed you. You're on 24-hour lockdown. Like there's no rec. There's no nothing. And then, yeah, you got like dope sick people coming in all the time, people that need entertainment. So it's the jungle all the time. I've never been in the county jail where it's not like – I'm like, hmm, this is not bad this time around. It's war every time you go in. You know, we interviewed a corrupt county jail sheriff. Oh, man. From Ohio. Yeah.

What was his name? Lewis, what's his name? Kyle. Yeah. Kyle. And like, I wonder, like, is that the guy that did the, like, stole the drugs out of the thing? Yeah, he was stealing drugs out of the thing. What a, like, what a setup, man. He was on the show, yeah. That was a great one. It's called Dirty Detective, we called it. Dirty Detective, all right. Yeah, it's just like, I don't know. It's like Darwinism at its finest in jail. Like, it's survival of the fittest.

Yeah. I'm grateful I never had to go through a county jail experience. And sometimes they combine fed guys in there too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you mixed with them? I had a bunch of like – and that's like the only good thing about – I mean not the only good thing about speaking Spanish. It's just like if I see some guys, like usually some ice cases that were in there, I'm shacking up with those dudes immediately, man. Because I know like they're –

Spanish people are most loyal. They eat good, and they got your back no matter what. You're one of them, and you don't have to be a specific skin color to be cool with them. If you're just a dude that speaks Spanish, you're good, man. Yeah, the Spanish guys, once you're in with them, they're so loyal, and they won't snitch on you. They stay tight, and they move together. Yeah, if you're hungry and you don't have anything, like—

Jump in, man. Like, we're all about it. What was the difference in food between the county and the regular prison? Oh, prison's like... Prison's still shitty food, but, like, I think it's probably more of it. County is just, like, you get...

I'm a, I was 110 pounds in the county jail and I'm next to a, you know, 250 pound guy and they're feeding us both the same tiny portions. You know, like the math doesn't add up there. So you're always hungry. Oh yeah. My first time in, in jail. Yeah. I remember like,

uh i'd heard stories about it and i was like all right i just gotta be like tough man you hit the first guy you see blah blah blah so i walk in i'm dope sick and i'm like obviously strung out and yeah some like hawking big uh black fella comes up to me he's like yeah i'm gonna need that tray white boy and i was like all right here's my moment right i was like i can't like give it to him because then i'm fucked the rest of my stay so uh tray time comes and i'm like

in my head uh for like whatever two hours it was so I'm like what am I gonna do um so tray time comes he walks up to me and like I like look like I hoed out and like gave him my tray right so I'm ruminating the whole time he's over there with his tray and my tray so I was like

nah, fuck this, man. So I get up and I'm like beeline over to him. I'm like smack the tray out of his hand and I smack his tray out of the other hand. I'm like, no, bro, if I'm not eating, nobody is. And then I just proceeded to get my ass whooped by like three of his homies, man. So did you gain respect after that? I don't know. I didn't get fucked with for a few days after that. If you went back to prison now, would you do that again or would you do it differently? I don't know. Probably not, man, because I'm like...

In the grand scheme of things, like, who really cares if these guys think I'm a bitch? And, like, if it came into my life or yours, I'll fight for that. But if it's, like, I don't want to get, like, I'm not getting into it over a 25-cent tray, you know? Now, is it other races getting treated like this or just the white guys? I think it's, like, mainly the white guys. That's all I saw. I don't want to, like, it's not a fact, but, like, just from my experiences, yeah, like, strung out white guys.

uh everybody fucks with them you know yeah but they're also the ones you got to watch out for because you don't know if they're gonna snap but i've seen the crazy yeah the crazy strung out white guys do some crazy things man yeah those guys go off yeah they don't they don't care so you worked in the kitchen in the prison itself that was that your whole bed whole bit yeah and like it's the best paying job you got there you got like your state pay and then like

The company that brought in the food also matched what your state pay was. So you're getting like double paid. Yeah. And then you can hustle too. You can hustle. Yeah. And like I didn't really care about the hustling. I was all about like, all right, if I'm going to be here, I'm going to like get jacked up and yeah, look like a real prison dude by the time I leave. So I let the beard grow out and yeah, I just worked and smuggled bullet eggs and

Yeah, anything protein-related, I'm just smuggling back, man. Just for yourself. Just for me, yeah. It was all for personal use. You always had the guys that were smuggling for personal use and then smuggling to hustle. It's funny to watch the hustlers because, like, they're bossy little fellas, man. Like, you see guys, like, walking out smuggling a tomato juice can under their thing. That's fucking –

Things of onions and peppers. Never would I ever have the balls to try to pull something like that off. You always know when a hit's going down, too, because the food's a little skimpy during the meal. Skimpy, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're doing smaller portions so they could save the rest. Yep. They play it smart. Yeah, they're criminals, man. So what was it like to meet Louis inside there, who's now your co-host of your podcast? Louis, yeah. So Louis and I have— So Louis and I, like, I don't know, Lou. I met Lou when I was, like, in the midst of my addiction. I met him briefly at, like, a meeting—

And then I didn't really know him that well. We knew him through a mutual friend. So he comes into the facility I'm at. I'm already probably like a month or two in, so I'm like the seasoned veteran at this point. And so he comes in. I see him. I'm like, oh, yeah. So we like acknowledge each other, have a little exchange. And then it was just like the –

best friendship ever since then, you know, after, after that, we just wrecked. How much time did you have on your sentence when he got in? Um, I think I still had another, that was before prison. So I still had another, uh, two years left. Yeah. And then he had the same, he had the same, he, I don't know what he had going on. Uh,

But probably about the same. You check his paperwork? Yeah, I should have. I still haven't checked his paper. I don't know what that guy's in for. Do they have paperwork checking out there? I don't know. I've never done that. I've heard of it, but nobody's ever like, hey, can I see your paper? That brings up a great perspective because –

People will comment saying, oh, we don't – there's no such thing as paperwork checking. This is you speaking that you're in prison. Yeah. And you didn't experience that. I don't know what paperwork they're referencing because like I don't remember ever being given paperwork while I was in there. They're not like here's your file. Like so I don't know what that means. I mean everyone has a different prison experience. Yeah, and different prisons are run different ways. Yeah. Yeah. So how much did you leave the prison with financially? Oh.

Not anything, really. I think they gave you your gate pay. So I was making $80 a month from the state, and then my mom would send me $40 or something for commissary, and I'd blow that.

So I think my gate pay when I left from prison to the halfway house was like 25 bucks. Was your mom supportive during your prison time? She was, yeah. My mom, like, bless her soul and all the pain I put her through, always answered jail phone calls, always had money on the books and always had, yeah, the phone money.

I don't—I would have said, yeah, go—yeah, go F yourself. Like, you deserve this. Good luck. Would she visit you? Never had her come visit me. She came in the county. She came once, but then when I went to prison, I was like, I can't do it to her. You know what I mean? It's like—

Imagine seeing your child in prison on the other side of the glass. So I thought I'd like spare her of that. Oh, is that how the visits were there? It was a glass wall? Yeah, terrible. You can't hear a thing. You're packed in there with like everybody else who's loud. You're picking up a phone to talk? No, they don't even have that. They have like a little sliver in the wall. So like my method was like I'd have to stick my ear up to the hole while she's talking and then like –

You try to time it where I can talk, and it was just a nightmare. And that was at the regular prison itself? Yeah, county and prison. Wow, that's kind of wild. Yeah. No, like, touch me. Well, I can't really speak for prison because I didn't, but I've heard. That's what I hear about the prison I was in. Like, that's how visits are. Yeah. Couldn't touch them, yeah.

So when you got out, were you clean or did you do drugs in prison? No, I didn't do any drugs in prison. Like I did the like the normal prison thing of like I'm going to do all this programming. I'm trying to get what's it called? Urban lease. What do you call it?

I'm trying to get out early. And then they tell me, like, when I get sentenced, do all these things when you go to prison and we'll pre-release you or whatever it's called. So I'm like, cool. So I'm back-to-back, program, program, program, workout, program. And that's all I'm doing in prison. And so, yeah, I...

Get denied of that early release and they send me the halfway house anyway. So I get out and I do 11 months in a halfway house. Eleven? Eleven, bud. Yeah. No house arrest, nothing. Nothing. Straight 11 months. Dude, that's brutal. But it was terrible. But like it was kind of cool because the end like you're allowed to have a job and you can have money and like somehow you're paying them to stay there, which blows my mind. They take a percentage of the paycheck, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Now, I mean, in my scenario, it seemed a lot more pettier and stricter at the halfway house and food was worse than prison itself. What was your experience? Kind of the same. The food, terrible. But like it was one of those like kind of like hood rat situations.

halfway house where they really didn't care what was going on. I've seen, there was probably more drugs in the halfway house. Like, I remember getting high my first week in there. Some guy, he's like, you want to do a speedball? I was like,

I've never done that before. Yeah. And then two days later, that guy like dies in the shower at the halfway house and they just cart him out and bring somebody else in. And you stayed away from the drugs in the halfway house? No, I did not. I wish I could say I did. I was doing like, I did that speedball with the guy and then I got hip to Suboxone strips and then like I had a job that nobody else did. So I was like,

the suboxone kingpin i was buying up everybody's suboxones and uh just eating them like crazy yeah no suboxone is huge in prison i know i know when i was in prison that was like a booming thing you had like the red eye you know that like where they stick in their eyeball and like everybody's walking around with like the red eye they did that it's insane yeah suboxone looks like paper or what how does that look like yeah it's like a little uh rectangle strip of

whatever's in it. But it's like paper? Yeah, it's like a little tiny strip of paper, yeah. Because they used to smuggle that in through the mail. Through the mail, yeah, and the books. Yeah, then they started photocopying the mail, like the prison officials. Bastards. So you couldn't get that back. I think someone was telling me a story about how they shut down the whole mail room. Maybe it was Louis, I

forgot. Yeah, and now, like, you can't even order, like, before your people could send you whites in. Now you can't do that. Now you have to go through their people to buy the whites. So they're, like, the price is marked up. So you're paying double what you would have paid just to, like, yeah, no outside books. Got to be directly from Amazon. Yeah, I mean, I think that they're phasing that all out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like, that saying outside books. They're hip now. Yeah, I mean, I know there are some, like, hustles where you can, like, you return something from Amazon and have it

rerouted to the prison. So it comes from, there's like different things, you know? But it's kind of crazy that the olden days you could send like clothes into people, sneakers, food, anything like that, care packages. That's like where the definition of a care package comes for inmates. Yeah, like the cigarettes and like, yeah, remember your people could send you a carton of cigarettes. But yeah, that's long days are over with. Now, were they helping you with like programs, reintegrating into society and whatnot at the halfway house?

No, I mean you have like their little BS like mandatory things that you go through but that's I mean it's after that it's like whatever you can get a job, pay us our money and yeah get on through. But the good thing is like I successfully completed all my time in the halfway house so between prison and the halfway house I was like my time was done and I'm off paper, I'm off everything so I'm a free man ready to do whatever I want to do again. Looking back on it would you have rather have just done the probation?

I probably wouldn't have made it. Like, I could – yeah, probation is not my thing. It's not people's things for a lot of people. Yeah, it's a hard – once you get in that system, it's hard to get out of that system, man. Yeah. So, like, I graduate the halfway house. I end up, like –

Befriending somebody in prison who lives in a like a fancy part of town. It's like a condominium top floor penthouse and uh Yeah, he's a prison buddy. He like I move in with him for a while and then that's where like the i'm off to the races again because this guy's like

rich financially and he's like rich in drugs too so I get out and he's like yeah cocaine whatever I wanted is like there as a like welcome home present for me so like I yeah it's again like just right down the shitter immediately wow yeah so how did you finally get clean so I uh again that was 2019 um

I eventually got kicked out of the condo for stealing his drugs. Yeah, just like he would hand me buku amounts of drugs, but that was never enough for me. So like I'm back homeless flying a sign on the streets. Like I tried my hand in that. Does that actually work?

Give us a financial breakdown. If I could do that today, like if I had like no shame in going out there and holding a sign, man, it's probably the best paying job I've ever had. Really? Yeah. People are actually – A good day I made 500 bucks. That was like the best day I ever had. What did your sign say? It just like said like anything helps or anything is a blessing. Thank you. So how many people do you think are actually legit that do that?

I've met none. Like in my time as a homeless man, like living that particular lifestyle, like I've met nobody that was genuinely out of gas or, you know, just going through a struggle in life. Like we were all pretty hardcore addicts just feeding the machine, you know? But you all were generally broke. Oh, we're all poor, yeah. All our money's...

So you didn't see people with like a house or anything going out there to hold up the stand? I never saw anybody getting a Jaguar after they got done, like a shift at the off ramp and drive off. So it is worth it to do that then? It's pretty lucrative, yeah. So like I'm justifying it in my mind like, okay, so on average I'm probably making $150 to $200 a day. I've got a heroin and a crack habit, so –

Um, I'm staying in a shelter. So I don't have any, so people will either give you cigarettes money or, uh, food when you're flying the sign. Like I love all three of those things. So, um, I'm flying all day. I go buy my drugs, go back, go to the homeless shelter and then repeat. And like, I've accepted this is my plight in life. Right. So I'm completely good with it. Um, so one day I'm out flying my sign and, uh,

This lady pulls up in a minivan, and she's got like three kids in there, and she starts like preaching to me about Jesus and the goodness of Jesus and blah, blah, blah. So I'm like, all right, whatever. You got money or not? So she leaves. I don't think anything about it. Probably a month or so later, the lady comes back, gives me a sandwich. We start talking more. So she's like a married housewife, lives in a nice part of Columbus, and

got a husband with a great job with great money, blah, blah, blah. So this woman like keeps coming back every, uh, every week or so gives me a sandwich. Um, one day, uh, she, and her thing too was always like, yeah, if you ever want to like get out of this life, here's my number. You can come live with myself and my family. Uh, we got a basement. That's pretty sweet.

And then like me i'm like that just interferes with doing drugs. So like I can't do that I get kicked out of the shelter one day And it's the middle of winter time and i'm like what to do now man I'm i've got literally nowhere to go My mom won't even think about like toying the idea of letting me stay with her So I call this like rich white lady from the suburbs and I move in with her uh

And like the week later, I just feel something different about this woman. And yeah, we begin to like have this relationship and which is like bad because she's married and I'm on drugs. She doesn't know that. And yeah, but like whatever the connection is so strong, like we can't stay away from each other. And then like the husband finds out we're kind of in love and

Like, so we tell him about it. And then this, this guy bless his heart too. Uh, just finds out like this homeless guy let move into his house is like digging on his wife and she's like digging on him. And then he offers to like, let me stay there even after that. Right. He's like, all right, well I get it. Like she's an attractive woman. Um, I just need you guys. You can't be together like alone anymore. Like you still, still live here, but you can't be alone together. Yeah.

And like for me, like she was becoming like my new drugs. I just couldn't do that. So I took like the honorable way out and was like, yeah, I can't promise you that, man. So I left. Then this guy puts me up in a – he buys me an apartment for two months. He gives me $600 cash like to leave his house. Like we go to an ATM and he's like, here, I'll give you a few bucks to get you started, blah, blah, blah. Gives me $600. Yeah.

And then wait, so she picked up a random homeless guy on the side of the road. Yeah. Yeah. She give you a shower first at least or something. No, like she gave me a whole different like I walk into this lady's basement. It's like it's legit like a nice apartment. I've stayed in way shittier places in my life. And yeah, we're just like hanging out all the time.

And it's kind of working out perfect because she'll take me to the off ramp in the morning. She'll drop me off. I go do my thing. And at the end of the day, you know, I come back and then we hang out the rest of the night. And the husband had no idea up until. Nothing, man. And like, that's the crazy part. How did he not know? He's like, he's a bit of a workaholic.

And he's like emotionally not there. So like, yeah, he just he's oblivious to what's going on around him. It's so crazy. Yeah. So then. Yeah. So he puts me up in this like apartment. Right. Gives me two months rent. And now this woman is just like coming over to my apartment. So he's like he kind of like paid for a place for us to go, you know, outside of his house.

And then she finds out I'm on drugs. And then like at this point, like I didn't see anything worth living for. I was cool with like doing drugs, going to the shelter and just repeating like I'll die eventually. But I meet this woman. She kind of changes it up for me. And so now she's like, we're planting the idea of like getting off drugs is like now maybe I'll try that.

So do you still talk to this woman at all? I'm currently married to this woman. Wait, holy fuck. Yeah, I'm currently married to this woman. You married this woman? So were they like divorced or something? No, they were— Was it just like an open relationship? Not at all. So they're a pretty strict—like not strict Christian family, but they both have their like beliefs, right? And they're pretty hardcore believers. And like she fell into this like pit of temptation, which was me for some reason—

Dude, this is... We just had like this weird vibe that you couldn't... I've never had with anybody in my entire life. I guess when you meet that person... When you know you know, right? And how the universe connected you. Like if you look at it, like imagine if you weren't at that... If you stopped going to that ramp or anything happened and you went somewhere else, you never would have... Never would have been... And you have a child on the way with her. I do indeed. And she has kids from her... She's got... So yeah, okay. So...

Now I'm tickling the idea of getting clean. I'm like, okay, maybe I can do that. Maybe I can be a normal guy. So I do a couple in and out stints out of treatment and it never works out. Day two, I'm like, it sounds good going in. Then day two comes and I'm like...

Yeah, this sucks, man. I'm not doing this anymore. So I get through a week successfully completing detox, right? And I get out and as soon as I get out, man, I go to the trap. I buy my drugs and then – but that's the first time ever in my life where I've called somebody and was like, listen, I fucked up. I did some drugs. So she's like, all right, well, let's get out of Ohio for a while.

So she took me out on vacation to like Tennessee had a lovely time and then when I came home I Went to a like long-term treatment facility and then that's like where this whole thing began Yeah, it was like it was a year-long program. I'm like dude. How am I gonna do a year anything and For whatever reason man, it's stuck like I've not felt the need to do drugs since then I did like the things they tell you to do to get off drugs. I did all those but then like I

Yeah, since then I went to college and bought a house and have a decent credit score. Wow. It's weird, bud. Do you think that if you never met her, you wouldn't be clean today? Oh, absolutely not. I'm not putting her on a podium, but yeah, had I not found anything that felt better than drugs, then no, I'd still be... Because I was cool with...

I had it made, man. I was a lone wolf. I did what I wanted. I had enough money and enough cigarettes, enough food to like just exist. It's so crazy how the universe works. Yeah.

And, like, this girl, like, so her husband makes probably close to, like, $200,000 a year, which is a lot in Columbus. And, like, gave it up, all that up for a junkie like me that had nothing to his name. Couldn't even, like, couldn't even commit to a week of treatment. You know what I mean? And, like, gave...

gave all that up like that's what a powerful drug love is like gave all that and just like completely started fresh with me from like the bottom up

Wow. So what do you do for work now? So now I work in – I've got two jobs. Like I'm a server on my off days from my main job. But my main job is like I work at a treatment center that I once went through that I couldn't like get – you know, I couldn't last a week through. They have a long-term men's program and I'm kind of like a resident advisor there.

And it's absolutely – I feel like such an imposter sometimes because, like, I look at them and, like, I am them, man. Like, I was them not that long ago. And I'm sure you can help tremendously because you have the lived experience. And that's, like, the – like, that's one thing I've learned is, like, you don't suggest anything really or you don't, like – you just speak from experience. Like, I know what worked for me, like –

I think like if a loser – like I was pretty bottom of the barrel, gave up on life. Like if a loser like that doesn't want to be anything better can do this, I feel like anybody can do this, man. Do you ever have temptations to use and if so, how do you stay grounded? So like, all right, temptation. No, because like –

I made sure I did all the things that I could possibly do to stay off drugs. Like, there's a shot you can get now that, like, will block any sort of opiate in your system. So, like, I get on that. Like, I do all the things. But the one time, the only one time I've been tempted in almost three years is, like, I was in, I re-enrolled in school. And, like, I was in, I was in, I was in, I was in, I was in, I was in, I was in, I was in,

And then I was coming in one day and I looked to the side of the road and there's like a giant bottle, right? So I'm an addict. I get out and look at it and it's like a giant bottle full of Adderall, man. Like the biggest, fattest bottle you've ever seen in your life and it's just completely filled to the top with Adderall, right?

So I'm like, hmm, that's never really my drug of choice. So maybe I can just like pop them every now and again, see what it feels like. So I held on to these freaking pills for like three days. Like, you know, it was my dirty little secret. And then finally I was like, I can't do this anymore, man. Like I'm tired of thinking about taking them. Yeah.

And then I just, like, told my wife, and I was like, we got to dump these things because I'm going to eat them eventually. I wonder if the universe, like, planted those. I think it probably had to have, right? Yeah, just, like, just to test you, to, you know, to give you that, to show you that you could do it. Never in my lifetime have, like...

Yeah, drugs just been like there, you know, like such a substantial amount of drugs right there. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to believe that, you know, that's a coincidence. Yeah. And my thinking was always like if I tell somebody I want to get high, that's just as bad as getting high. You know what I mean? Like I think that's like a weakness. And I think once I got over that and just realized like –

Getting out there and asking somebody for help or just telling them what's on your mind. Like it's saved my life. I don't know how many times in the last three years. Absolutely. It's absurd. Well, Aaron, thank you so much. Yeah, man. Great talking to you. Great to meet you and Lewis. And thanks again. And I'll see you around as you guys, you know, continue your podcasting world and using the studio over here. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it, man.