influencing, botox & toxic relationships ft. Juliana Shiel
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Hi guys, so on this episode of the podcast I have Juliana Sheil on but first I just have to do a bit of housekeeping so number one is I have to do some self-promo. My first night in Dublin, the podcast show Growing Up in Dublin is sold out so due to high demand we're putting on a second night there was literally no demand but if you would like to go on the Saturday and you didn't get a chance to get a

I am now doing two nights. So I'm doing the 5th of October in the Ambassador Theatre. It's going to be a really good night. And if you're going on your own, please do text me on Instagram because I've made a group chat for the girls who are attending on their own so that you can go together or you can organise to get your seats near each other. Another show that I'm doing, I'm doing Cork for the Cork Podcast Festival on the 14th of September in live at St Luke's. Again, if you want to go solo, there's unassigned seating at that. So it'll be much easier to sit beside people that...

you've organized beforehand, if you know what I mean. It's also BYOB, which is pretty fun. You can get locked in the crowd and that one will be really fun as well.

Anyway, so this podcast episode, it was really good chat. Julianna Sheil has been my favorite TikToker for a really long time. So this is kind of like a fangirl moment for me. And I think because I was nervous, I started oversharing a little bit. I had the fear after recording this episode. So hopefully that didn't come across too weird. But I would like to say some trigger warnings. We do discuss...

abusive relationships uh around halfway through the episode so if you think that will be triggering for you just I'd stop the podcast episode there or maybe just don't listen to this at all the first half is fine this is very innocuous but um I think these are important conversations to have yeah it's good it's just a good thing to to talk about especially so we don't let the people who are the perpetrators of these abuse of this abuse away with it

and it's good for girls to talk to each other about it. So I hope you enjoy the episode. I'm recording this at six in the morning, so sorry if this is, if I'm not making any sense. Okay, you should just start with your altogether nice story.

I went by myself in the night to the Arcadia stage to see my little sister because her friends were performing Pussy Wrangler. Everyone there was like 20 because they're obviously all in college. Okay. And I couldn't see my sister so I was like, yeah, I'll just have like a little bop by myself for like 15 minutes. And I felt significantly older than everyone that was there and I was dancing and this boy was in front of me and he was like smiling at me and turning around and I thought he was going to come up and talk to me and be like, hey. And he was like...

"Hi!" And I was like, "Hey." And he's like, "Your whole tit is out."

And I was like, oh, thank you. And tried to like laugh it off. And then I was just so embarrassed that I just left and went to the prodigy also. Yeah. It was pretty bad. Do you have any actually icks when you work with brands? Like what pisses you off? What are your icks? What are your brand icks? Oh, when a brand sends you an email and says, hey babe, automatic note. I fucking hate that. I don't know why I hate it so much. Because it's unprofessional. I just hate it. I don't know why I hate it. I'm just like, shut up. You don't even know.

know me. I don't know why, maybe I'm just being a hater. Do you ever give feedback to brands afterwards? You're all stupid cunt psych. Yeah I've only recently started doing it. No I've never done that. I should do it more though because sometimes people are very unprofessional and like or they'll take like six months to pay you or something.

What kind of feedback do you get? I don't care about the waiting for payment thing because that's just expected. I think I'm just used to it now. But I've started giving feedback. With my old management, it was like a requirement that you gave feedback after you did a brand deal so that they could, you know, about like the creative direction and stuff like that. So they know what to do better in future. But now I've given like proper feedback to like briefs and stuff. In fairness, it's only if it's really, really bad. For example, you know, like if they want to pay for...

if they want to pay for promotion for the real. And I'm like, but it's so bad for the algorithm. Like, don't do that. I would really highly recommend or advise against it. But another one, well, it was more of a complaint. A brand in the brief was they suggested...

content or the suggested reel that they were giving was like a child's bath time routine or like Make sure that you put the lotion to be seen putting the lotion on the child So I obviously sent a complaint and was like this. I hope that you're not advising content creators to do this That's the only times and then I another time I actually cancelled a brand deal Because they were like could you get more shots of your baby running around? She's not a like she's not a toy brands ever ask you to lie

Oh, I... Like, being like, this is my favourite thing ever. No, just like, if I film something, I'm like, the product doesn't work. They're like, yeah, but you could make it look like it does. Oh. And I'm like, alright. Like, I'm obviously not going to do that. It's so bad. It is really bad. Now, it was when, you know when I had real long brown hair? Mm-hmm.

That was the only time I was getting like offers for like shampoo brands. Hair growth. Hair growth stuff. And I just said no to all of them because like it was literally just me eating better. I've had brands like I used to have really bad acne. Well, not really bad, but just like I have photos from before and after, before I went on Accutane. And I've had brands be like, can we use them photos for our product? I've already used them. It's actually wild. How was your journey? I saw your TikTok about your dry eyes. Yeah.

Don't go on Accutane girls. I swear to God it's not worth it. I feel so bad about even making videos about it before. It didn't even work first of all. My skin's like the same. And... But your skin doesn't look bad at all. It was never bad. I don't know why. I was just going on for attention. You're like I want to struggle. You're like my sisters went on it. They all got clear skin. No side effects. I have... I went to an eye doctor person and they... Sorry there's a cat over there. Oh. It has a mouse and it's... Oh my God. Oh my God. I...

lost 35% of the oil glands in my eyes and that's permanent I have that for the rest of my life now so I have to put ointment I have to go like this put ointment inside there oh my god it's disgusting I'm scared to ask but does that can happen to your vagina I it didn't happen to me but I swear it's normal but I have heard that can happen to people yeah I heard of a girl who had kidney failure and both her knees uh like the the fluid in her knees

Dried up so now she's arthritis. Oh my god. I don't think that actually is gonna be legal in like 40 years And is there any other purpose to Accutane or is it just for clear skin? It used to be a chemotherapy drug That's where it comes from. I know. Oh, yeah People are like whack that like it obviously just clear people's skin when they were getting chemo So they were like this really works, but like it's just

No. Don't do it. Oh my god. Do not do it. How is your relationship now with your skin after that? Are you like feeling more accepting do you think? Yeah, I feel like my skin was so clear for ages. It's still clear now. Like, it's fine. It's like normal. But when it was really clear and then it got bad again, I was like, oh, it actually doesn't really make that much difference to your life, does it? Like, not really. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I accepted it more, which is nice.

Do you feel then, do you just feel pressure because of your job to have clear skin? Probably, and I think like years of modeling as well, like if you don't have perfect skin, people are always like, um. I've had a few comments over the years, all by men though, always by men. Yeah, like two male hairdressers. He was like, you have to look after your hair and your skin. And I was like, all right.

But like you kind of have to just get over those things I think in those industries so. And how is the, how is your industry? How is the modelling industry? Or the beauty, do they overlap with each other the modelling? In Ireland they do. I don't really model anymore because like the money is so much better in content creation. Oh okay. For sure. Yeah yeah. But yeah it's good. I like it. I dip in and out sometimes. It gets, it just feels silly sometimes. Do you ever feel that?

Like it doesn't feel like a real job? Not a real job, but I'm like, what am I doing here? Who am I helping? Do you know what I mean? And then I'll like backtrack and make a video like slating all these products to like try and make a difference.

I'm convincing people to buy stuff they probably don't need so I'll cancel it out. You get the guilt. Yeah, the guilt. That's what I get. I feel bad about the job. Influencer guilt. Yeah. But like I've also had like a real marketing job in an office and it was the same thing but like I was actually selling things that were way worse and more relevant. So like it's just a job at the end of the day. Sorry, I want to go back to the just to start with the influencer guilt. I think that's a really good point. So what do you feel guilty about when you're posting?

I feel like, I don't know if it's guilt, it's just like you're convincing people to buy stuff all the time. I think what brands want you to do is act like it's your favourite product every time and that's not true.

yeah yeah so then I get the guilt and I'll make like nothing for three months and then I'll make video like slating all these products that I hate but then brands probably don't like me or blacklist me like yeah because you have to find the happy medium of being honest but then also being still being able to make a living yeah but I also think like you don't want to just be a walking ad where you're just like buy this buy this buy this buy this because there is loads of shite out there that doesn't work

Like I could name 10 products right now. I'm not going to do it, but like, I actually can't. But I've been told by a few people that are like influencer managers because I manage myself. Do you? Yeah, I don't have an agent. I don't. I'm not going to lie. Like, no offense if you're an agent, but like, I just don't see the point in the agent.

If you're busy And a mother I totally get it Yeah Or if you have a full time job Loads of the girls Have full time jobs But if you're full time 30% of your wages 20% 20% It's a lot

What benefits do you find from the agent? So I managed myself for like about three years and then the benefits I saw from being it's like the relationship with brands so they already have like a relationship with other brands because of the influencers that are existing within the management already so then they can contact them and be like we have another creator who falls in the same

bracket that you're looking for, like demographic. And then for podcasting, I find it handy because it's like a security thing. I have access to a free studio when I go over to London. They sort out the ads that play at the beginning and the middle and the end of the podcast. Like I don't have to do any of that. And then filtering through emails because once you get to, yeah, it's just like the amount of emails that come through

they do need to be filtered through I can't be looking at them like since I had my daughter as well 100% I would be able I would be able to do it myself if I didn't have my daughter but I just found it was so much easier to be able to get work in they also give you like a professional edge that I don't have like people our accountant our shared accountant I won't say his name but

What a legend. Like, multiple people have told me, like, you shouldn't be saying or doing those things on your social media. But I think those things are the things that make you look more human kind of thing. Like, if you're just a walking ad and you're like, this is my little coffee and this is my makeup and blah, blah, blah. Like, everyone's like that, it seems, in the sphere. Do you get me? Yeah. So if you do things like curse and, I don't know, smoke and drink. Like, just be a normal person and, like, do you know what I mean? I think it's people connect with that more.

Do you know? If you're fully yourself Rather than trying Like does your agent ever be like Don't Don't vape on your Instagram Cailin No my You probably don't do that anyway

No because I remember when I got with my first management that were like really full on management like this is not the management I'm with now as one of my old ones they got me to change my profile picture on Instagram because it said I like comb on it in a circle they got me to delete they advised me to delete a video where I mentioned that I'd taken acid before Really? Yeah but I didn't delete it because I was like I don't care about that and

And they gave you like a content projection plan where they were like, these are the pillars of your content. So say it's like mental health or, you know,

Makeup Fashion Whatever it is And they were like This is what you're supposed to These are some content ideas And this is how often You should post I never went They were sort of like A loose guideline I never followed that Because I don't like to be Rigid in my posting Yeah It would just like Come naturally to me Because you know In some weeks You're like Oh I have so much to say And then other weeks You're like Don't look at me But they were really good In the sense that It made you feel More like a business then Because It's more official And it keeps you on your toes I'd imagine

Yeah. Like you have to get this done. Like sometimes I just don't film things for like weeks on end. It just takes three minutes. Like it's so easy. But because there's no one to pull me up, I'm like, I'll get around to it, you know? Yeah. And then in terms of longevity, do you think like the future of influencing for you?

where do you want it to go if you know what i mean in my head i'm definitely not going to do this forever like i've only been doing it for i want to say three years and i only started it because i tried to get the basic income for the arts grant remember that grant um and i really thought i was gonna get it didn't get it and then i was like i have no i'd never had a job before this is like yeah three years ago i'd never had a job before i was just out of college i was

literally thousands of euro in debt to my parents because I went travelling and I was like I'm going to get this grant and then I didn't get it and then moved country because I was like I can't get a job here because I had like a science degree so I was like what am I going to do with that? I didn't want to work in a lab went to London lied on my CV said I had a marketing degree

Got a job in a marketing agency, was made redundant within three weeks. No, six weeks, six weeks. What? Because I literally, they were saying words and I was like, what the fuck is that? I'm going into the bathroom and Googling, Googling stuff. And they were like, yeah, where'd you go to college? They didn't even check that I had a degree. It's on them, I think. But yeah, then I was redundant, living in London, like had London rent. And I was like, oh my God, I'm...

gonna have to move home I'm gonna have to like sublet my room but I then I just put my whole pussy into the influencing and then it was actually fine in the end so you intentionally set out to be like I'm gonna make this my job I saw a video on TikTok probably I'd say six months before that happened and it was this girl it was like a funny video and she was like me and

transferring an influencer my entire month's wages for one video and I was like what because I never met an influencer in real life before that I was like they were kind of like this like sphere of elusive people and I was like they can't make that much money and then I looked into it and I was like huh I was like what you're like give me give me yeah what the fuck I was like even if I could make like a tiny bit extra

alongside painting I'd be like that's class so then yeah and then it just became my full time thing after a while Do you think your art though gets set aside sometimes if you're or does it give you more time to focus on your art? I think like my ADHD doesn't help and I think I will when I was relying on selling my paintings for my income I would paint like

literally like nine hours a day because I was like if I don't sell these like what am I going to do? But now because this is my like I'm financially stable now I'm like I'm going to paint this stupid little painting that I know no one's going to buy it's like a personal piece which is nice in its own way but I definitely do it less. I've been saying I need to get back onto it for like a year now. Is that what you want to do? Yeah like that would have been my full time thing before this and the entire reason I started influencing was so that I could just paint and

Yeah, I think in the long run. Like, do you see yourself doing it forever? No, well, I...

So this is kind of, again, one of the benefits of getting management, especially the one that I'm with now, they focus on the longevity of your career. So I know that I don't want to be an influencer forever. I would actually love to have a private life in the future. But for the moment, I'm like, this is great because I don't have to pay for childcare, I can look after my daughter, minimal. I do find it really fun. It's one of the funnest jobs ever. But a platform is really beneficial for different things. So I want to...

be a writer basically is what the job that I want and then if you have like a platform to sell books or whatever that's brilliant but I also have like very many business ideas some are shit some are not but

Our accountant, he's always telling me what's a bad idea and what's a good idea. Wait, who are you with? Same guy as you. No, no, no. Agent. Oh, the Miller Agency. Shout out to them. They're fucking brilliant. I literally call my manager crying sometimes to help. She helps me with personal issues. That's nice. I know, they're like parents. I'm like, Mom! Again, if you want to start a business, they help you with all... If you want to publish a book, they help you with all of that. That's pretty good. Would you ever start a... sell a product?

I don't want to sell a product. So my first, one of the business ideas that has been approved by my accountant is this.

So would never I wouldn't want to sell a product if you know I mean because that's just like you said with the guilt I don't want to add to the waste and just selling stuff and you feel the pressure though of the way you look I probably noticed more things about my face from looking at my face all day But then after all I was like, I actually I don't really care though Like I can see them but I'm generally then I was like, that's fine anytime I'm on social media loads, you know if you just have those days where you're like scrolling so much and

Every time I come away from my phone, I'm like, I think I need to get Botox and under eye filler and filler. I went through, I'd say, a six month stint where all I could see was my smile lines. And I was like, disgusting. But then after a while, then you just stop seeing them again. You're like, I actually don't care. Also because there was nothing that could be done surgically, so I had to get over it. And what do you think about influencers and transparency? Do you think that influencers should disclaim if they've had work done?

Isn't it a law in France that you have to do that? No, it's a law in France that you have to disclaim if you've gotten work done as a gifted or ad, I think. Oh yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I think it's wrong. Personally, I think it's wrong to do ads with plastic surgery.

I think so I got offered as well by a yeah I've been offered a few times so I'm like first of all what are you saying second of all that's fucked up like I was so offended yeah they were like you fucking need it I was like alright I just think or like the people are trying to be transparent by saying come get my Botox with me but what you're actually doing is normalising it and making it look like it's going to get a facial like it's not like you can get like muscle atrophy you can get like

like your face just stops moving like nerve damage numbness all that shit and like that's fucking terrifying and if you're 13 14 seeing all these influencers from Dublin going somewhere in Dublin to get their Botox done you're gonna think it's normal like it's really not normal yeah you know it's not normal at all I used to get filler when before I had my daughter and I think I had a little bit of lip blindness for a while and

But I had a great woman in London. I was like, oh, this is lovely, you know, real natural lip. But no, I would never get it again. But I go through phases of being like, if I just got a bit of lip filler. But even still, like a question's being like, where did you get your lip filler done that time where you got lip filler? Like five years ago. Yeah. Like there was a time when the lip filler was like really popping off. There was a time where I was like, I'm going to get lip filler. Yeah. But so many people have lip filler that don't say that they have lip filler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you asking me right now? No, no.

No I mean like People I'm friends with And stuff Yeah They would never say I feel like you shouldn't Be able to know Like you shouldn't be Able to look at someone And be like

she has lip filler do you know what I mean like that's kind of not the point I know do you know what I mean I know but the Botox thing with filler I don't feel as much strong feelings against maybe that's just because I've gotten it before so like I don't have a fear towards it because you know it actually does dissolve my lips are completely back to normal and it didn't migrate or anything I don't think but it doesn't go anywhere does it did you watch the RTE documentary being like did you not watch the documentary it's fucking terrifying it's like a hidden camera and they just go into all these like the like sheds and people's gardens and they're like yeah

Like they're just random cunts in their sheds. And they go to a, what's that thing called? Industrial estate. And he's selling like Ozempic. What? Sorry, we're going on a tangent now. It's just, it's how easy it is to get it. Like it's all not tested. Like it's like knock off Ozempic, knock off lip filler. And he's giving it to literally anyone that comes in. She's like, oh, I'm a hairdresser. He's like, grand, take that.

It's so scary. Oh my god, that's horrific. Now, my lip filler woman was a doctor. Yeah, that's good. So, and it was in a proper office in West London, bruv. That's the way it should be. That was all the celebrities. I actually asked at an influencer party. Where do you get your lip filler? Who did you ask? I asked like a group of girls when I was drunk at an influencer party. And did they all, were they nice about it? Yeah, they were all like, oh, this is where we go. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, and they were like, I've got an under eye filler. You know, they were giving me the tea. Once I was in London and I saw FKA Twigs in the dentist shop.

I was looking at her and I was like, surely not. And then your man came out and said Tallulah and that's her name. That's such a nice name. I was like, I love you. But I was too shy to say anything but I was, I also wasn't looking at her because I was like, I don't want to, like, you know what I mean? I want to be chill. How did you find living in London? I fucking hated London. Yeah. Well, you're a nature girl. I, I,

it's too big for me it's too big and I'm not saying it's the shit place because I feel like I actually hate on it so much and I'm always like fucking shit hole it's obviously great city so fun so much going on so many young people I just it's too big everyone is so no one says hello to me in the street yeah

And I love that. Like, I didn't feel an intense community. Now, if you were there long enough and you were in an industry and you had a community, it would be very different. But I was only there for a year. I just didn't love it. And then I moved back here and I went to the park beside my parents' house on Clarny Hill. And I, like, went into the forest and just burst out crying. LAUGHTER

I was like oh Jesus like I'm never leaving Ireland ever again like I love Ireland though and I never didn't like it I wouldn't do Australia or anything Australia is too far I'm also scared of the hole in the ozone layer I think it's healing but I would just be terrified of that burning me alive I never think of that it's too far but also I feel like since I went to London and came back I think there's so much to be said for like nourishing

the friendships and relationships you already have rather than always just trying to make new ones because you're like always grass greener grass greener grass is greener but i the last year especially i put in a lot of effort to like my current friendships and it's been like really really great why do you think that is that we're all like the grass is greener or like insatiable with just one and it's kind of greedy or something isn't it i found that in london there's more of like

People are less likely to settle, like not settle down, but less likely to commit to someone. Yeah. Always looking for something more like the better offer of someone else or wanting someone who's like beneficial to you. But maybe that was the parties and stuff that I was going to because the only parties I was invited to was like influencer parties. Literally no one would say hello to you at those. They'd be literally rat arse drunk and not even say hi. Perfect. I said hi to someone before and she looked the other way. Perfect.

Getting asked to move For a picture and stuff Yeah No So I would just get so drunk With Jason We'd just be like I love London But My friends Who I made in London I'm still friends with them now And like have met my baby And everything But they were like Two Irish girls Okay Do you know I never like branched out really I made like one One or two English friends And I loved them And

But yeah, definitely my relationships in Ireland are so much better and stronger from being here and I just like being here. But I also do feel like Ireland is going down a dark path. But I think with London there's just too much anonymity. It's like... Did I say that right? Yeah. I fucking hate saying that word. Um...

People can act however they want to strangers because there's hundreds of thousands of people just like me, just like you. You can just do whatever you want. And I think that's not good. But in somewhere like Dublin... And I know we always say, oh, I hate the way everyone knows everything about everyone in Ireland, like blah, blah, blah. It actually is kind of nice in a way because people act better. That's kind of the way they should act. There will be repercussions if you do that. Oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting perspective. I never thought of it that way. But the anonymity I liked in London because...

I was like, you could cry in public and no one would say anything. And I also could, you know what I mean, dress however I wanted as well without feeling judgment. There was like a little bit less judgment, but I didn't like the fact it was like a lack of intimacy or interpersonal connections or something like that. I think it's great to experience it and I'm glad I did experience it. And now I can like appreciate living in Ireland even more now.

because we have that like bigger sense of community. Like people going on dates in London with people they have no idea who they are. That fucking terrifies me. Because in Ireland you can background check. Because what if someone had done something absolutely horrendous? You'd have no idea. You'd have no idea and they could just like they're not going to bring it up. Do you know what I mean? That really scares me. That scares me as well to be honest. Did you date in London when you were there? I wouldn't say date. I...

you know I wouldn't say date I went on a few and they were all freaks like they're mostly Irish shout out if you're listening I haven't been on a date in 11 months instead of a queen yeah but like not my choice it survives I just I just I feel like my standards are really high now which is great I think since moving home

I don't know, I'm just like not arsed unless it's like really, you know, unless you're really feeling it. Do you think there's less of a pool though of people because of emigration?

Yeah that's why Christmas is fucking class Everyone was so hot at Christmas I was thinking me and my sister went to Galway for Christmas We went out drinking on the 22nd of December And there were so many hot people at Galway We were going where are all these people hiding Galway's class I was like wait Galway's fucking hopping But they were all just like home for Christmas Yeah it was great Yeah they're definitely in some smaller pool But again the background checks are great

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but I'd be scared of being related to someone as well and just be like, oh, we're actually second cousins. I don't worry about that. I've actually never really thought about it until right now. It's kind of fucked up. My mom came from a family of 10 kids and then there's like 30 cousins and they're all Dublin? No, they're from well, all over Ireland they're mostly from Galway.

And that's where you were with all the hot people? Yeah, I know. So that's why I'm scared. I'm like, wait, are we related? And then every time I meet someone from Galway, I'm like, do you know this person? And they're like, yeah. I'm like, they're my cousin. Get away. Get away. And I know you've done a lot of work with the 2 Into You campaign. So how has that been for you? Well, I...

So that started off with that one video. Me and my friends were doing a fundraiser. Put up that video basically explaining my story. That was probably like five years ago now. But that was before I ever did any influencing. I actually think if I hadn't done that video, I never would have had the balls to put up and make a video. Because I was crying in that video. If you remember. Like, there's like tears in my eyes. It's actually very emotional. But I would have never been able to post and make a video. Because I was like, if I can post that, I can post and make a video. Do you know? But yeah, I...

After, I'd say about a year after that, I did a podcast where I was interviewing people who had been through abusive relationships. And I hadn't done any therapy. And I was probably just aggressively triggering myself. I'd be doing the interview and I'd be like... It was so upsetting. And then I'd be editing it, also just sobbing. It was so triggering. But all that came from... You know Nora Casey? She's on Dragon's Den. She's an absolute tank. So she actually...

She did a TED talk talking about her relationship. She was probably the first person I'd seen, the first woman who'd been through an abusive relationship that I saw who was like a fucking tank. And I was like, oh, slay. I was like, what a legend. And I watched her video, I'd say like 10 times. Like, she's such an inspiration. I actually DM'd her, but she left me unseen. I was like, all right. She left you unseen? No, no, no, sorry. She didn't open it. She didn't open it. But...

Yeah, she's amazing. And I actually find that loads of the people that I talk to that have been through abusive relationships, like women, especially on that podcast, they're all like super, super high achieving now. Like I feel like because when you're in a relationship like that, you feel so small and you feel like your time has been taken away from you that you like, what's the word? Purposely? Intentionally. Yeah, you intentionally like skyrocket and work so hard and like make a point of being successful for yourself. Yeah.

Which is really nice. Revenge maybe? Not revenge. I feel like it's a self-worth thing. You're kind of like, no one's ever going to make me... Or I'm never going to be in a position where I have to rely on someone financially. Maybe it comes from that. Yeah, it's interesting. How was the reaction when you uploaded that video the first time? It was really good. I think a lot of people didn't... Not believe me, but they probably didn't realise how serious it was until I posted that video. I'm so glad I did it. I feel like if I hadn't done that, that ex-boyfriend would be rocking around Dublin. Like, he left the country.

Oh did he? Well like I heard him getting kicked out of like multiple house parties and stuff after that video people were like no which is like the way it should be That's great That's brilliant That's like what I wanted I think he's in England now Sorry I'm not getting emotional I'm just swallowing Okay

I don't know, am I gonna start trauma dumping now? - Trauma dump! - Trauma dump time! 'Cause I made a video, I think it was probably five or six years ago. My first boyfriend when I was 17 was abusive, but because it was my first boyfriend, I didn't know that it was. I was just like, this is normal. I was just like, this is normal and good. What I actually was conflating it with was passion. I was like, he's so obsessed with me that I'm making him behave like this. And it was all my, you know, back to my fault, back to me.

But he's like continued his life as normal as like a really good job, a group of friends. Nothing ever happened. Even after I made that video, all his friends were like, you're purposely trying to ruin his life. Even though it was like years after. Do you know what I mean? It's great that you're doing it. And it's really tough because you have to relive everything. I think now I'm definitely... Because that's fucking 10 years ago for me. So I'm grand. I was more upset because it felt like...

it was my fault that he continued to behave like that because I was the first, I was his first girlfriend and then I was being like, is he like that because I traumatised him in a way. But I just think it's great, yeah, girls coming forward with their stories. For sure. Like, I went to the guards with, I'd like hand, I'd like typed it out on a piece of paper and I had a photo of bruises around my neck from being strangled and I brought it to the guard station and it was a woman guard. I went,

Yeah, Vanguard? No. Do you say Vanguard anymore? I don't know. A guard who was a lady and she was like, look, I'm not going to lie, but you're going to be wasting your time here. Like, do you know what I mean? I wouldn't be arsed. Narced. I was like, all right. So I went home.

And then I just never went back again because it was hard enough to go in the first place but like to be discouraged like up front she didn't even read the piece of paper. She was just like yeah honestly like it's probably going to go nowhere. Oh my God. I think now the law is definitely changing and they're trying. That was a good while ago. Yeah.

But just to encourage people to come forward because now, I think if I went forward 10 years ago, the same thing would have happened to me. They would have told me to fuck off, especially as an ex-girlfriend. You're not taken less seriously. I remember when he was behaving like that, it was like continuing the year after even we broke up, we were in the same school and my parents went to his house

to tell his parents and his mom has literally said that he's coming home from school being like oh we're really good friends and like talking about how good our relationship is even though he yeah even though he was like being horrible to me in school but even now and his mom is still like

Backing his corner Even though this has been Going on for 10 years I presume other women Have like come forward About him And complained about him But he's like Has a really High paying good job In one of the Big four Group of friends Like no repercussions Has a girlfriend And he's like Continuing to behave like this For 10 years Like I feel like most people's Mums though Would be in their corner Though at the end of the day Wouldn't they

I think there's a limit. Not me. I wouldn't. Especially with my... If it was a son... It's just like perpetuating the problem of male violence. If they're just being...

mollycoddled by their parents and their mommies like I don't know what and I kept for years I was trying to figure out what made him behave like that and I was like there has to be a reason because he has another brother who doesn't behave like that same as my ex he has an identical twin oh god who obviously looks the same as him so everyone thinks it's him and he didn't do anything wrong oh no yeah I feel bad for him if you're out there I'm sorry whatever

I just don't know but it's not our job you're one from women's age she was like it's not our job to figure out or intellectualise why they behave the way they do true but I actually I think for me I know from my ex what he'd been through childhood, teenhood, whatever and I understood why he was like that and I think for me it did actually then I felt sorry for him and I feel sorry for him now I kind of like forgave him in my own mind like a long time ago

But I think it's just important to stop the cycle of abuse and sort it out in yourself. Because I feel like this could happen to me. And that I could knock out a therapy, whatever, compartmentalize it. Have kids. And not that I would be acting the same as him. But it would be some form of someone made me feel so small. So I'm going to make myself huge. So that never happens again. And during that process, you're going to make other people feel like shit. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I feel like for a long time...

I was so afraid of men and hated men for like two years. Like I was terrified of men. And now I've really healed that relationship, which is great. But some people never, they never heal that. And you like, you hear girls talk like that all the time. Like, I hate men, men are trash, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. I feel like it's really like important wound to heal.

for your life obviously half the world is men no I think I'm going to continue hating them I'm only messing I'm only messing but I feel like I do make a lot of digs at men but it's obviously deep rooted in the fact that like I'm fearful of most of them and I just feel betrayed but like all the men that have been really really close to me have

But maybe it's because I'm seeking out that portrayal Where it's like Deep down I feel like you are evil Or you're going to hurt me So I'm I hear people say a lot Like if you Are constantly saying That you hate men Think men are shit Like they can't be functional Because of the patriarchy That we live in Like that can't be true They are the men That you attract Always Yeah They are the men And then it's true

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, because you're like trying to prove yourself right. Especially, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry I brought that up. I didn't intentionally. I wasn't like, it's time for you to talk about your trauma now. Here we are. No, I don't. I'll talk about anything. Literally anything. Okay, so have you been in a relationship since? Yeah, I've been in two. Two? Yeah, two. And have you noticed, has it helped you in any way like seek out

Or maybe it's more of like a red flag. What do you call that? Like a radar? Oh, Jesus. Like I can see a red flag in a man, like from a fucking mile. Like before, like I can see my friends, boyfriends who I've met a couple of times. Like I can see red flags in them before, do you know what I mean? Before them. Do you know what I mean? It becomes really, really obvious. I think after all that. I actually went to therapy for the first time, like properly in like May. And, uh,

I was like because I was going for this and I was like going to say to my therapist I was like blah blah blah and she was like you really kind of sound like you're over it like I think because I've done so many interviews for women's aid I've made so many videos I've done so much work that like that was healing for me yeah do you know what I mean which is obviously great yeah so do you think talking about it definitely helped yeah I think like that's kind of the only I asked my therapist like what is the way that you get over these things and she was like like identify how it's affecting your life now

Try sort those out like stream by stream. So like if you're afraid of men, if you can't have sex, all those things. And then just talk about it like over and over and over and over. I think I naturally would have been really bad at reaching out to people if I was upset. Like I just handle it on my own and I do that by just compartmentalizing it and just not thinking about it. But now I'm better at like reaching out to my friends because they are there. I get really drunk sometimes.

And then I'd be like, remember that time. Do you know what I mean? Or I'd make jokes about it a lot.

I remember having these two best friends in secondary school and both their dads unfortunately died to cancer and they used to always be like dead dad crew and they used to always make jokes about it and when I was a kid I'd be like wow they're so strong like they joke about it and they think it's funny like but now I understand like they didn't know how to bring it up with their friends who were also kids and we didn't know how to recognise that they were trying to bring it up I feel like you see a lot of people

joking about their trauma online in person when they're drunk when they're sober like they are literally screaming to talk about it like if you have a friend like that like they are like it's literally coming out of their mouth by force that's interesting and how do you have any advice for friends who want to approach the situation maybe with

to help like if their friend has been through that I think the hardest question and it's unanswered I've actually like talked to people at Women's Aid about this if you have a friend that you know is in like an unhealthy relationship abusive relationship what are you supposed to do and there isn't really an answer because if you say it to them approach them about it they're gonna isolate themselves from you they're gonna try to protect their relationship and their boyfriend or girlfriend whatever and

So the only thing you can do is just don't let them ice you out because I feel like a lot of the time the boyfriend or girlfriend will try to drive a wedge in between the person and their like support network. So just don't let that happen. And that's the only thing you can do, which like is so it sucks because you're watching from the outside. You're like you're literally you can see it happening, but you can't do anything. It's so shit. Yeah. And how to help someone who's like gone through it in the past and they want to talk to their friends about it.

How do you approach the subject being like you can talk to me anytime you want? I'd say like one-on-one, intentional one-on-one time was definitely something that I underrated. I kind of only recently started like really meeting up with my friends and like instigating deep conversations. They're not happening naturally. I'm like forcing them but then they happen because sometimes I'm like, oh, I like, you know,

like you do miss like the intimacy of like having a DMC that you have like in school like you know like you go on retreats and shit and we'd all be sitting in the bunk beds and like people would just say the most fucking like darkest shit ever but like I like not that I miss it but you know what I mean like that doesn't happen naturally because if you just meet for drinks all the time meet for coffee people are busy like when you get older and they all have like fellas and stuff so like you just don't get that interaction as much so like meeting up one-on-one and just like being like remember that time like even though sometimes it's hard it's uncomfortable but like I think that's

A good way to kind of. Force it. I suppose. And also. Don't be afraid to ask about it. Especially if they're doing that joke thing. Because they really want to talk about it. But yeah. Like sober setting. One on one. And you bring it up. I know it's awkward. Because you don't want to upset them. But.

The more they talk about it, the better they're going to feel. I was supposed to be in a musical once. Do you want to hear the story? Oh, well, have and tell. I got kicked out of secondary school. Like, I was... What? Sorry, I didn't even ask you about growing up. That's the point of the podcast. Oh, yeah. Jesus Christ. We don't have enough time for that. I was in... I won't say the name of the school, but I was in a very, very small, private, Catholic, all-girls school. Oh. Was it the same as Rachel Gavlew? No, no, no. It's way... Almost Wickler-like. Okay. It...

I got kicked out I didn't get kicked out I got asked to leave By my vice principal It's a classic Like a classic You'd do better in another school I was like period And then I went to the institute Which was mixed So I was like yup I was so excited But no I It kind of started with my When I came out in I was probably like 15 I think I was in third year Fourth year And I had Such a fucked up idea Of what a gay person was Like it was So fucked up Or like bisexual And

So I remember I came out to my friends in a group chat on like WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger or whatever and the next day I went in and like no one cared. Like no one gave a fuck. Like the next day I went into school and I sat with a completely different group of friends and just did not talk to my friends for like months. I was like well

I guess this is it. Like, I'm gay now. And then just like evacuated myself from the friend group as if they were all going to fucking hate me. Like, it was so weird. It was off because you were scared of being rejected by them for being bisexual. I rejected myself. I had so much shame when I came out. And I still do today. Like, when I was in that therapy session, like, I was talking about other stuff and then I started talking about being bi and burst out crying. Oh my god. Yeah, and I was like, I didn't even know I still felt like that. I feel like

You just get questioned about being bi all the time. Like, I think every single boyfriend I've ever had is like, are you actually bi? Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like, have you kissed a woman or what? Yeah, have you had a bird? Like, it doesn't really count if you haven't had a bird. Like, all that shit. But yeah, where was I? Oh, sorry. Then the gay marriage referendum. I was in transition year when that happened. Okay. Or fifth year, maybe. We weren't allowed to wear our pride badges. Yeah.

because my school was like obviously super homophobic and they were like we can't now they have a gender neutral bathroom so they've obviously come a long way which is great but back then weren't allowed to wear the pride badges so I took down one of the vote no signs off the dart station like you know the big plaques and wrote like really bad stuff about the Catholic church on it like in a sharpie and then I put it

I put it behind my principal where I knew the assembly for the first years would be so like it was on a chair and when the curtain came back she was like at the podium and then the vote no sign was there with like Catholic church like rapist blah blah blah it was really bad wait this is the most iconic story I've ever heard in my life what

Why didn't we open with this? For fuck's sake. Oh my God. Do you have a picture of it? I don't. No, no, no. This is before smartphones were invented. No, no, no. This is a long time ago. I don't remember having a phone in school. But whatever. I felt my vice principal's hand just on my shoulder. And I was like, oh, I'm so done. Because there was no one else bold in my ear. And I wasn't bold. That was the worst thing I did. But I wasn't bold in a way that was evil. But that was activism. Yeah, man. But like I...

I would have been like into activism just anything that was against like the normal flow of things happening any way I could disrupt a class I would be doing it like I was just obsessed now I like I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD back then so I was literally like what is wrong with me I hate school I hate everything about school I hate learning I obviously didn't I just wasn't my brain just did not fit with school the structure yeah or college like and that's fine but yeah that was it then I went to the institute

Were you like a smoking cigarettes behind the prefabs sort of girl or were you like I'd say you're good at sports for some reason. Yeah. You look like you play hockey. That's rude. So is you. No bisexual scores. I played a lot of sport but I was also smoking behind the prefabs. I think my my biggest downfall in school was that I always always always gravitated towards the

the messers and people that were just delinquents because I was one too but like when I walked into a new class I would just automatically sit with the people who were going to get in trouble because that was me do you know what I mean you felt accepted by them yeah I was like fuck this school and like I look back on some of the things that I said to teachers and I'm like oh

God if that was me And a child said that to me Like No I feel sorry for them now Like I actually do Because I used to be like They're all out to get me They fucking hate me They literally were Doing their job And I was like Fucking throwing chairs Around the classroom No I wasn't But like Just being a melt Like I was more Just like a mess Or like class clown But it is It's kind of funny like I got through school Thank God You did Yeah and college And how did you find The transition then To the institute?

This is the best thing. No one, like, none of the teachers knew who I was. I was permanently removed from my Spanish class, but that was the only one. Just for messing. Like, I just couldn't shut the fuck up in class. Like, I just didn't want to sit there. I just wanted to mess. And I'm kind of still like that. Like, if anyone's like, this is really serious. Like, me at a funeral, good luck. Like, I can't. It's when I have to be serious. I wouldn't be able to be in a corporate job. Like, me in that corporate job that I did in London for six weeks when I got my redundant, I

I was just saying the most inappropriate things to people. I was like... Like, I just... You're like... Like, in a full tracksuit. And they were all like, what are you doing? But I think...

If you have a 9-5 and you were good in school, that is so great. And you probably are, like, corporately trained. Like, you act a certain way and you're, like, work mode. Like, you have a work mode brain. Like, part of your brain. I never had that. And I don't think I ever will have it. And when I meet other people that also... It's just not having a filter, isn't it, really? Yeah. When I meet people like that, I'm like, yes. Like, I just... It's automatic connection with people like that. Like, I just really fuck with that. Because you can see who they actually are. Mm-hmm.

Do you know what I mean? People are like, oh, it's so bad, like inappropriate, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I love it. I see. I'm really bad at like small talk, polite talk. Yeah. That's what, well, that's why I like podcasts because it's like, now we can actually get deep. But that's what I find really uncomfortable, like going to events and stuff where you have to make small, I usually just go mute because I'm like, can we just start, you know, cut to the chase. I always talk about the weather. Like, I'm like, oh, weather done. What else are we talking about? I'm sweating, girl. So I go, that's what I say. And people are like, okay.

alright no I'm bad at the small talk but I also get so bored when other people do it I'm so bored like I don't care but yeah it's just like what's that word niceries that's not a word pleasantries that's what you're thinking I'm Victoria Cash and I want to invite you to a place called Luckyland where you can play over a hundred social casino style games for free for your chance to redeem some serious prizes

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