Ep 3: Core Beliefs in Entrepreneurship - Shape Business Success with Jason Van Ruler
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In the spring of 2023, I experienced one of the most life-altering experiences of my life. I was sitting in the lobby of just a cheap hotel in a city that I don't live in with 23 other grown men who are all businessmen. They're all entrepreneurs, founders, executives, and we were coloring.

We had these giant white pieces of paper that took up the entire table of the kind of the breakfast buffet area of this cheap hotel. It's at 10 o'clock at night. We've all got a box of Crayola markers and we're following some very specific instructions to build out a drawing, a piece of art, a series of images. This was part of an extremely intense deep dive that I was able to be part of that basically was

helping understand the way that we think, the way that we're motivated, the things that might motivate us initially and drag us down later. And then the next day, we went into this very intensive session where a clinical health expert, a mental health specialist, went through this piece of art with us and did some crazy analysis to help us understand the way our brains work. That was one of the most pivotal moments of my entire life.

understanding this concept of core beliefs. And in this episode, I've brought in the guy that literally walked me through that entire journey.

We're going to be talking about some great mental health stuff. And no, it's not going to be super cheesy, typical mental health stuff. This is stuff that really matters that I can attest to that you've probably never heard before. But as a business leader, as a founder, as an entrepreneur, you absolutely need to know about. I've been so excited to record this episode and ready for you to jump into it. So here we go.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Growth Gear Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Jordan, and I want to start off this episode by reading a statement that I found online on the internet, just a generic statement. It says, entrepreneurs and business leaders must study core beliefs to be successful in their personal and their professional lives. Core beliefs are things, quote unquote, that we have a strong degree of certainty about.

They're often unshakable convictions that shape our understanding of ourselves, others, and the world. This is a big statement that I can resonate with, you know, in, I guess, the recent couple years of my past life.

And to kind of get an understanding of if this is true or not, and if it is true, how that impacts our lives as entrepreneurs and business leaders, I've brought in a guy that can explain this probably with more experience and more clearly than anybody else in this world that I know. His name is Jason Van Ruler. So Jason, welcome to the podcast. Hey, thanks so much for having me on, Tim. I've been looking forward to this. So as we were chatting before the episode, you made a statement that

I wrote down that I would like for you to kind of explain, right? And the context being, of course, that most of our listeners here are maybe established business owners, business leaders of some sort, and

we've gotten here somehow, right? To whatever point it is that we are, we've gotten here somehow. And there are certain things that have given us the gasoline to do that. There are some things that have been flat tires, you know, along our journey that have slowed us down. And the statement that you used, I thought was interesting. It is what fuels us, fools us. So if you would give a brief explanation of that.

Yeah, well, I wanted to come up with something that'd be really hard to say accurately. So that was my first step is make it challenging for everyone to say it.

But I think there's a lot of truth to it because I think what brings us into the role of being a founder, executive entrepreneur is something inside that's fueling us, right? And a lot of times what is fueling us are these core beliefs that we have about ourselves and about the world and other people. And oftentimes they're beliefs that we have to prove ourselves or they're beliefs that we're not good enough or they're beliefs that we have to do it on our own. And so what happens is

We kind of come out of the gate and we're on fire to disprove these things we believe. Right. So we say, like, I'm going to prove that I have worth and I'm going to prove that I value and I'm going to just work really hard. So that fuels us and it creates this momentum. But what's problematic is that's how we start, but it's not how we sustain our success.

Because what happens eventually is you, okay, you've proven it. Now you've got some success. You've done the thing. You've got something to show for it, but you still don't feel satisfied. And the reason you don't feel satisfied or the reason you don't feel content is because you still have the same core belief. Your outworking the core belief did not change the core belief. It was just a lot of work.

And so that's usually where I come in is to help people and organizations try to figure out like, what are our core beliefs and how do we change them if we need to? And, you know, the, the secret is we almost always need to change them because they're usually the things that are holding us back. So what you're saying is this applies to everybody because you've, you've already mentioned some kind of deep things like some negative core beliefs. And I know as entrepreneurs, you know, we're very optimistic. Sometimes we, uh,

you know, think highly of ourselves. And there are probably people listening that are thinking, hey, I don't have any negative core beliefs, but it sounds like you're saying that that's probably not the case. You also made a statement or you've been using the word we, we, we, we. And I want to back up just for a second and to add some context, explain what you mean by we, because you are a mental health professional and a performance coach, but that wasn't always your background, right?

Right. That's correct. I have dressed like a therapist my whole entire life, just not been one my whole entire life. So I've worn the corduroys and the penny loafers since about eight. So I've always looked the part. But the truth is, I've always been a person that's been really interested in business. And so before becoming a therapist and going to school for it, I actually owned a recruiting firm. I worked a lot in recruiting and H.R. and staffing.

and just became really intrigued by what it takes to grow a business. And so since that time, we've owned several other companies and own several other companies now. And so I really understand what it takes and what it means to actually commit to starting something, because I think sometimes people don't get that. And it's easy to throw out advice if you haven't done it. But when you've done it and when you're in it, it's a totally different thing. And that's the exact context I wanted to put out there, because

You know, there are a lot of people on TikTok, for example, that are coming out with mental health advice that are just right out of psychology school, but they've never been a business owner. They've never been an entrepreneur. They've never actually, you know, firsthand experienced those struggles. So keep talking about core beliefs. You've mentioned everybody has negative core beliefs. Can you dive a little deeper into that?

Yeah, I mean, I think when people hear this, sometimes they say, well, I had I had a wonderful, perfect childhood, Jason. And so for that reason, all my core beliefs are great. And I would just say like, OK, sure, probably not, though. Right. Because the thing is, is that we are always analyzing the world that we live in and we're filtering it through our belief system and our perceptions. And so when we are wounded, which could be from our parents or a relationship or a failure or rejection, what happens is we make up a story about why that happened.

Okay. And eventually we're going to make up a story that it's something about us that made a bad thing happen. And that becomes a negative core belief. Right. And so that might even be something like, I shouldn't try because if I try, I'm going to fail.

Or I can't trust other people because if I trust other people, they will let me down at the final hour and it won't work. Or I'm not deserving of success. That's what I see so often with entrepreneurs where they have a core belief that for whatever reason, success is a bad thing or wealth is a bad thing. And so just as they get to the place where they could really change

change everything, they stop themselves. And they stop themselves because they think that's what they're supposed to do because that's their internal belief about it. So I realized we didn't actually define core belief. Can you define that? Let's just back up for one second and define core belief. Yeah, if you just think about core beliefs as, you know, really similar to like programming language, right? It's the language by which everything else goes from. And so our core beliefs are just kind of that core programming about the world and how we see ourselves in it.

Because what's happening all the time is that our brain is really trying to be efficient. And so our brain is saying, like, let's make up some rules and then we will always follow those rules. And in always following the rules, we can do other things. We don't have to constantly make decisions. And so our core beliefs become these foundational ways that we view ourselves in the world in an effort to make our lives more efficient. The problem with it is just as the same as, you know, if you're a programming person,

If you have faulty programming, you're only as good as the faulty programming, right? And so we can only get so far before we have to take a look at it and update it. Okay. Makes complete sense. So you mentioned earlier, and I've already got like a whole half page of notes here. This is going to get wild. You mentioned that, you know, everybody has at least a core belief that's negative. And oftentimes entrepreneurs are fueled initially by trying to disprove those core beliefs.

But it seems to me like if you continue that story, you've also mentioned that those core beliefs can also slow us down.

So I'd like to talk about that initial push. I'd like to talk about the slowdown and maybe where that inflection point is. But explain more about this idea of entrepreneurs are often motivated or given energy by running from those core beliefs. We always know our potential to some degree. And so we want to run as fast as we can. If we can swim, we want to swim in the deep end of the pool. And so we're compelled to do it. And then being compelled to do it also motivates us to

you know, kind of see if these core beliefs are true. What happens though, is that then we start to rack up all these things that could disprove them, but we don't look at that because we don't understand it's our core belief. So a great example of this would be if your core belief is that you're not good enough,

No matter what you do, no matter how much success you have, you will feel that way. Right. And you will always feel like something's wrong or something is going to change or the rug is going to be pulled out from under you, which is how I end up talking to people who most people could only dream of being right. Who say, I don't know what it is, Jason. I just I'm unhappy.

I'm not content. I'm not satisfied and I'm unhappy. And this is like as they're sitting on their private plane. Right. But but they're not happy. They're working on it, but they're not happy. Right. And the reason they're not happy, there's a lot of things. But really, at the heart of it is because there's a belief in there that's limiting their happiness. And that belief says you can have one plane, but you don't have two. And so because you don't have two, you're not good enough.

Instead of saying you have one, that's pretty awesome. Or it says I had my best year ever, but I didn't have the year that somebody else had. And so I'm still not good enough. And so if we don't change that core belief, we end up just working our whole life to try to try to do something different and outwork that instead of changing what's actually broken.

I talk to a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of founders, a lot of executives, and there seems to be, if you dig in a little bit, this common theme of imposter syndrome. How does that correlate to negative core beliefs? Are they related? Is this something that you see all the time? Yeah, that is it, my friend. That is it, right? I have a lot of evidence that I guess I could be successful, but I also have a belief that I can't.

And so what do I do? Well, I begin to have anxiety about being found out because I'm worried that somewhere someone's going to find out that I don't actually deserve to be here because what I believe is true. So don't look at the success because that that'll mislead you. I'm actually not that great. And out of that place, we work really hard, right, because we don't like to feel that way. So we work really hard, but it's a scary and uncertain place to live.

The first time that I was ever, I guess maybe the only official time I was ever diagnosed with clinical anxiety, I had like three business things falling apart at once. And I remember I went like seven nights without sleeping. And I remember talking to my wife, telling her, like, everybody's right.

Right. Like like this is it. I've let everybody down, but everybody was also right. Like with this assumption that people just knew I was going to fail. Right. And it's at that point that I realized, hey, maybe I have this this high degree of imposter syndrome. The whole time I was doing well, quote unquote, thinking, well, it's all going to fall down eventually. Eventually they're all going to see, you know, this is all some sort of sham anyways. Right. And we live in that space and it robs us of all of our joy.

Right. And so what that does is it actually impairs us from making objective decisions because we're being emotionally driven and having emotions is a wonderful thing. Trust me, I'm a therapist. I'll talk to you about emotions all day, but being emotionally driven in business can be a very risky place to live. So it sounds like there's maybe a little bit of, uh, of like, I don't know the words to use, but like initial fuel, that's good.

Like maybe as entrepreneurs, we oftentimes get started on that journey independently in business because we want to disprove these core beliefs. Does everybody start that way? Do most entrepreneurs start that way? And I guess that's a slippery slope to start on. So how would you urge people early on in their journey to find motivation, inspiration, gumption without leaning on that need to disprove those core beliefs? Yeah, I mean, I think the question is really just what is this about for me?

So I know what I'm trying to start. I know what I'm doing. But what is it about for me? Is it about I'm trying to prove to people I can be successful? Is it about I'm trying to run from who I used to be? Is it about I think I have value and I just want to share that with the world? Like, what are my true intentions? And if those are intentions that we're not OK with, we need to spend some time there.

Because I think we all know, I mean, I think when I get to meet with people, I ask them that question, like, you know, what, what's in it for you? What are you doing this for? And strangely, everybody knows, right? And a lot of times they just say, well, I never thought about that part.

And I go, yeah, no, like I know. I mean, because we don't think about that part. But if you don't think about that part, it can sometimes take us a very long time to realize that the reason we're doing all the things we're doing and we're working so hard is actually kind of shallow and kind of shallow in the sense that it's actually not going to bring us joy or happiness or make the impact we want because it's not authentic. So not selfish, but shallow because it's inauthentic.

Yeah, because we're just what we're doing is we're pushing this version of ourselves that we want others to see instead of being who we are and letting people see. As I was doing a little bit of research for the episode, I ran into a list of different types of core beliefs, and they're listed as self-related, others-related and world-related. Do you think that's an accurate list? And can you briefly explain the differences?

Yeah. I mean, I think you can always break it down into sections. I mean, that's totally fine. I think a lot of the ones I talk to people about are more personal ones, but then we do have societal and cultural ones as well.

Right. People who grow up different places in our country are going to believe different things about themselves and success. And then we talk about immigrants and they're going to believe different things because the American dream. Right. That's been such a thing that's been foundational in some people's core beliefs. So I think it's OK to break that down. I think what I'm always going to go back to what matters most to me is what yours are. Right. So I'm most interested in what are the things that drive you and where do they come from?

All right, so let's make an assumption here. Let's just follow me here. The assumption is that 99.5% of all founders, entrepreneurs, executives have some sort of negative core belief in their stack. Like it's in their brain, it's there. Some people are more significantly impacted than others, but everybody is somehow impacted by these core beliefs. That is negative. There's a negative impact, all right? So if we're on the same page, if you can agree with that statement,

What are the most common core beliefs, negative core beliefs that you see in that avatar of person? Like you work with a lot of people, you coach a lot of people, counsel a lot of people. Like what are the most common that you see that are most significantly impacting their ability to perform on the next level? Yeah, I guess the first one that comes to mind is I can't trust people or a variation of that is I can't ask for help.

And that is a very challenging one that limits us because obviously for a time that can be true. You know, if you're a founder, you can do everything initially, perhaps. But if we truly want to have sustainable success, the chances are pretty good that we're going to have to have other people involved. But if we're believing that we can't do that or that that will lead to failure, what happens is people get in the way.

I think the other thing that I hear a lot is just I don't have worth unless I'm providing value. Right. And so my self-worth is determined by external factors like other people, which just drives us to work harder and harder and harder and try to please more and more people. And in that, we kind of lose ourselves because it's not actually for us. It's to prove our worth. So hear that one. And then sometimes I just hear I'm not worthy of success.

People have this belief about, and that could even be a money belief. It could be a personal belief about their value, but they will stop short or sabotage just before they get to a place of success because they don't truly believe they deserve it. So these three that you listed, if you took that avatar of people that we're talking about, founders, executives, entrepreneurs,

If you had to guess the percentage of all of them that have at least one of these core beliefs, how prevalent is it? I'm just smiling over here. It's pretty high. It's pretty high. We're going to say 90 plus. They're going to have one of those. And here's the thing, by the way, that I would share is like this.

it's kind of necessary sometimes to get started, right? You have to have something fueling you. So when I hear these things, if I meet with somebody, I would tell them that makes you a great starter. But if you're really going to have a long-term company, you need to be a sustainer. And being a sustainer looks different because when you start, it can be messy. It can be one-sided. It can be all these things. But to actually keep it going, we need to do something different.

Okay. So shining light right in the end of this depressing tunnel that we've, that we set the stage of everybody has these negative core beliefs. It's going to ruin us all. But you're saying that maybe that is what oftentimes gets us started. Doesn't always mean that it's going to sustain us. So we have to go from starter to sustainer. How do you do that? And I guess, I guess one of the questions that are one of the answers I assume that you would give is we have to start identifying what those core beliefs are.

So for the 90 plus percent of people that are listening to this, they have just figured out that they most likely have some negative core belief, whether or not. How does one start to identify what these are within themselves? This doesn't have to be super depressing. Like, I think it can be enlightening because there's room for both. Right there. There's room for both the positive and the negative. And.

there's nothing wrong with being humble. And sometimes this comes out of a place of just humility, but we take it a little too far. And so I would just like, this is a tremendous growth opportunity. I think when I'm working with somebody, what I'm wanting them to look at is where are the pain points in your life and what themes do you see occurring in those pain points? And so if you were to think about

The three to five times in your life that you feel like were most negatively impactful could be a breakup. It could be a business failure. It could be getting rejected at a school, whatever that thing is. Tell me a little bit about what happened and what you learned from that experience. And the chances are in doing that, we're going to start to identify some themes about how we view ourselves in the world.

I have heard that entrepreneurs are many times more likely to experience some sort of very impactful mental health issue than the general population.

And, you know, just Googling around and talking to people, it seems that that is more prevalent because we often equate our personal success with our business success or our business failures with our personal failures. Right. Like we kind of blend the two. Do you agree with that?

Yeah, I mean, there's often a lack of differentiation between ourselves and our work, right? We are our work in many ways. And so if our business is failing, we take that to mean that's a reflection on us personally.

And I also think, too, just the pressure that's involved in starting something and really walking that out to see it be successful. That's a tremendous burden and leadership is a burden. And so I think when you have all of this pressure stacked against you, you have to deal with it somehow. And I think, unfortunately, sometimes that is what leads to this uptick in mental health issues, because you're just doing something that's really, really hard to do. And there are consequences to that.

So if all this is related, then the concept of core beliefs can't be separated between professional core beliefs and personal core beliefs. Like it's all the same pot, right? Yeah, I mean, because we all look through our two eyes, right? So, I mean, I think that that is how we look at our business, is how we look at our personal life across the board. That that is our filter through which we're looking. Seems dangerous.

Well, I mean, it's dangerous if you don't understand it. You know, the good news is that with some awareness and some insight, you can start to be more intentional. And so I think there's been this really wonderful, you know, awareness that's coming just about mental health and about how we're wired and what makes us tick that is leading a lot of people in organizations to start asking questions that are really necessary. And when we have answers to some of those questions, then we kind of say like, oh, yeah, that's that belief I have.

then I'm not worthy of success. That's coming up again. And so what do I want to do about that? Well, that's an old belief. What I know today is X. So I think it's actually a really hopeful time because we haven't been asking these questions, right? I mean, for a long time, we've just been saying like, hey, get through it, make it happen. We don't care. And now we're actually asking. So I love that about us right now.

Yeah, I remember last time you and I were together, one of the profound things was understanding the impact of the greatest generation.

You know, and like, uh, maybe the way the world, you know, especially coming out of world war two was just, you know, pushing this, Hey, we're going to get through this. We're going to get through the great depression. We're going to get through the war, suck it up, toughen up, you know, grown men don't cry. And it's been that way for generations. And it seems like it's just starting to slowly change, which is exciting because that should create a lot of, I don't know, a lot of momentum for, for entrepreneurs to

Because we can actually not be ashamed about digging in and trying to, you know, work on our mental health and identify potential problems with our core beliefs and things like that. Yeah, absolutely. Because I think the healthier we get as people, the healthier organizations get.

Right. It's very rare to have someone who is very unhealthy personally have a very healthy organization that that often doesn't happen because in essence, our organization or what we're starting is an extension of who we are. And so it's only going to be as successful as we are healthy. And so I think this new idea that, you know, if you want to have a great business, be healthy as a person is a fantastic idea because I think it's going to literally change organizational structure across the world.

All right. So we blend personal and business. We all have some sort of negative core belief or 90% of us have negative core belief, which is, uh, that's our unofficial number. Yes. But, uh, that has maybe got us started, but now might be hindering us. Um, so let's just say myself, all the listeners were bought into that concept. Now, what, what tactically is our next step? Is it starting to identify what our core beliefs are? Is it, uh, what do we do now?

Yeah. So I think, you know, really step one is having awareness about what those are and where those come up. Right. How do we start? How do we dig in? How do we decipher that? Yeah. So if you were to tell me the places you feel most stuck most often, those are the places you're experiencing that where seemingly you just cannot figure out a way to get past it.

Right. So I know for me, a big bottleneck in my company when I started one of my companies was I could never find the right help. I was just like, I don't know what it is. I can never find the right people. I must just, you know, I'm a recruiting company, but like I suck at hiring for some reason. OK, well, it's interesting because like one of my core beliefs is that you can't trust people.

So isn't that like the weirdest thing that I can never find the right people and I also don't trust people. Okay, so maybe I'm not as stuck as I think. Maybe it's more about what I believe. And so the more accurate belief is you can't trust everybody. Not everybody's going to be the most trustworthy person, but some people are. And you can qualify that and you can work towards that. But just shifting that little piece, all of a sudden I started hiring people that really worked out. It was really weird, you know, because I didn't really do anything other than I changed my mind.

So when you're going through some of those common or beliefs earlier that, uh, that business professionals have, I wrote down one that resonated. It was, I don't have worth unless I'm providing for other people essentially. And for, for those of you that listen and know me in the industry, um, especially that know me well, you know, that I kill myself trying to make everybody happy, right? There's this book called the go giver. And a lot of people have said, Tim, you're like that book, you know, you're the guy that's

Well, maybe that's a problem. Like maybe I'm, I'm not actually that giving of a person. Maybe it's selfish, right? Like tell me if I'm thinking along the right lines here, but maybe that drive is not necessarily, I want to help everybody, but that

I feel like my value comes from helping other people. It's a slippery slope because I think it's probably not selfish, but I think sometimes it's self-serving, right? So sometimes we get into that and we give and we give and we give, but there's strings attached and the string attached is because I gave, I want to have value, right? And so the healthier way to do that is to give out of excess, right? To say like, I'm healthy and I know my needs are being met and I have worth. And so I'm giving out of that extra, right?

and there aren't strengths, right? I'm just able to give that freely. But I think if we're in a place where maybe we don't understand ourselves or we're externally driven, yeah, we can get into that place where we have to give all the time in order to prove to people we have value. And that's just exhausting. I mean, that's how we truly get burnt out is because we have nothing left in the tank because we've given everything away and we're not getting it back. First, I'd like to say to everybody that's listening,

hire an expert, hire a professional if you want to do a deep dive into your core beliefs, because I know you can get it wrong pretty fast if you're trying to self-identify. But let's just say for argument's sake, Jason, that we have people listening that can accurately identify what their negative core beliefs are, or they're trying to identify what they are and understand they are. Where do most core beliefs come from? Is it

childhood stuff? Is it a certain point in their lives? Can it happen as adults? Like where do most of our core beliefs develop?

Yeah, a lot of them come from childhood. And I know people are going to say, oh, man, he's a therapist. And here comes the childhood stuff. Yep. Yep. It's true. We learn how to be people through childhood. I'm sorry, but that's like how that works. Right. And so for better or for worse, like we are we are trained about how to be adults when we're children. And so it comes from that, but also just comes from really impactful life experiences.

And you might even like notice this about people where if somebody goes through a divorce, they might change wildly after that. Right. You may say, like, I wonder what happened to them because now they just see the world differently. So it comes from our childhood, but it also comes from really impactful experiences where we take a lesson away from that experience. And we've talked about negative core beliefs. Are there positive core beliefs? Yeah, absolutely. You have the flip side, right, which is that some people believe everything's going to work out no matter what.

Those people are super annoying, right? Wouldn't that be nice? Wouldn't it be nice to believe that? To just believe it's all going to be okay.

Do you think that negative core beliefs or positive core beliefs are more impactful in our day-to-day psyche and habits and in our mode of operation? Yeah, I think both impact us and both can be positive and negative just in and of themselves. But I think the negative ones are most destructive in business and entrepreneurship because it limits us before we even get started, right? I think you can...

You can have grandiosity and you can be too positive. Sure, that's such a thing. But I think that's rarely the issue. It's much more often the negative side. And it's just it's a limitation. And so if we're going to start, we want to do well. We want to remove the obstacles and limitations. And so that involves really having a better sense of self and our identity and what we think about what we think about.

All right. So let's assume that we've started to identify core beliefs, starting to understand a little bit more about what those are, what drives us or what makes us feel a certain way or make decisions the way we do. Is it possible to change those core beliefs or is it impossible to change them? But maybe we can act against them. Like what do we do going forward?

Yeah, so you can change them. It's not, you know, probably something you're going to do overnight because, again, you believed it for X amount of time. So it's going to take a bit. But one of the best places to start is just to look for evidence to the contrary. Right. So if I go back to that example of I'm sitting on my private jet and I'm feeling like I'm not successful, I might say, is there any evidence to the contrary? And the person might say, well, what do you even mean, Jason? Like, well, where are we sitting right now?

Oh, yeah. Well, we're OK. Like, are there other people who might want to be sitting where you're sitting? Are there other people who might call you successful? Are there other people who might say you have worth just as you are? Right. So we begin to just look for because our brain is filtering just what it thinks we want to know. We start to say, is there evidence or data outside of that that disproves this belief? And almost every time it's absolutely disproved. Right.

So we as business folks, I mean, we want to succeed. We want to be high performing for various reasons, right? Whatever motivation is. It's a lot of work to take a step back, try to identify these core beliefs, then start to readjust those core beliefs, right? Like this is not simple. It's grueling sometimes, but does it matter? Like, is it worth it? Can you explain to us like the impact that

Maybe readjusting or figuring out how to reconfigure these potentially negative core beliefs. Like, what does that do for us in a business sense? Yeah, I'd say it only matters if you want to be successful and happy. That's the only time it matters is in that space. But yes, it matters because otherwise we're working against ourselves.

And so if we truly want to run as fast as we can run and we truly want to do the big things and actually enjoy it, because I mean, a lot of times I work with highly successful people who just don't enjoy it. And so you actually want to enjoy it. You have to understand what you believe and why and then what to do about that, because otherwise it becomes just this black hole that we're just throwing effort into. And there's never going to be a place where it's enough.

Because that's not how it's designed, right? And so when I work with people, we kind of identify this stuff, which, and I don't want to make it seem too big. I mean, I work with people in these intensives for four or eight hours. So it's not like you have to do this for years and years, but you can get a start. But when you start to have this ability to identify it, your life does change because you're more content and you can go bigger and faster because you know what's motivating you.

And you know it accurately. So you've talked about successful and you've talked about happiness. How important are the two of those together? Because I know wildly successful business people that aren't happy. I know a lot of people that are happy, but they're not successful. Does happiness improve your ability to become more successful or does being successful make it easier to be happy? Like, talk to me about those two words.

Yeah, I mean, I think we define those so differently. One of my favorite things to do when I sit down with somebody is just to do some, you know, they finish the sentence. So I'll say success is, you know, dot, dot, dot, happiness is, and everybody does it differently, right? It's all different things. But I think when we know that we have value and worth, and we're not operating from a place of needing to prove that, we can be a lot more objective in our decision making, and we can do things a lot more efficiently.

And so I think it is possible to be both happy and successful. But I think you have to know what that means to you. And you have to know what you bring to the table and how that helps you and how it gets in the way. Makes sense. So what is the risk of...

not taking action on this knowledge that there's something that needs to be identified and understood, right? Like do people live their whole lives successfully and happy without ever identifying that they have this negative core belief that may be stuck in the back of their head?

I mean, maybe. I'm not sure what the research is because I don't think there's much. But sure, that could happen. But I think in this space, far more often than not, the cost of not knowing is consistently being stuck with the same problem over and over again and not having a solution. And what I think is the risk is that you can get to a place where you seemingly have everything but feel like you have nothing.

And I think that's a terrible kind of loneliness that not many people understand. I think it's easy to vilify successful people who don't feel content or happy because you can just say, well, hey, look at all you have. But anybody that's ever had that been in a position where other people really idealized you or wanted to be there, but you're miserable. Like that is its own kind of loneliness. Not many people understand. So you've been a business guy. You've worked with a lot of people.

you know, professionals, a lot of entrepreneurs. And you recently wrote a book that's called Get Past Your Past, How Facing Your Broken Places Lead to True Connection.

And you and I have talked previously about connection and the importance of connection. And maybe when we have wounds or we have these negative core beliefs that impact us, it makes us harder to connect with people. Talk to me about the importance of personal connection as a business leader, as a salesman, as a founder.

Yeah, I think you're only as good as your community. I mean, I think that's the challenge is that you have to let yourself be known by some people. And that's not to say everybody, right? Because you're not going to be for everybody and it's safe people. And so we have to work on identifying what that community should look like. But when we can be in community and be authentic and have these conversations and really go to deep places, we become known. And in our being known, we have healing.

And we also get to help other people heal. And I think we're all better as a result of that. I think the challenges for leaders and entrepreneurs is that that is a very small circle of people in most of their lives, if it's existence at all. And so it does take intention to pick some people out to have those conversations with. I can't trust people and I can't ask for help is one of those core beliefs you mentioned that's so common. If many of us feel that that's true,

How do we get past that negative core belief to open up to people in a way that can generate and foster true connection? Yeah, we start small, right? So we just say like, if I'm thinking of my life and I'm thinking of all the people in it where maybe that isn't true, maybe I actually could trust them or maybe I actually could ask them for help. How do I start there in a small way, right? I think where we get it wrong is sometimes people

hear me speak or they hear the stuff and they're like, okay, I'm going to call up somebody and I'm just going to like completely word vomit all over them and then ask for help and see what happens. Right. And then, and then they call me like, oh man, that didn't go well. And I'm like, I know it didn't go well. I could have told you it was not going to go well. Like you don't, you don't start like that. I've got a good friend who likes to race cars and he always says, if you can't drive slow, you can't drive fast. And I think the same is true about vulnerability. Like you have to do that in small ways before you do it in big ways.

And if the person proves to be a safe person in small ways, then we build up to big ways. So when I think to a lot of the interactions, a lot of the conversations I have with those in business around me, there's just so much pressure to perform. There's so much pressure to support our employees, support our shareholders, to support our clients, to continue doing the things that drive the business forward that we need to do.

What you're talking about sounds important, but it's going to take some time. It's going to take some focus. You know, it's going to take some prioritization. How important is it to actually start looking at this, to maybe take a step back and dive deep? And how important is it to rely on others to maybe help you with that journey? Sometimes the struggle that I have is it feels like a hard sell to talk.

business leaders and entrepreneurs into caring for themselves, right? They've mastered the art of doing it for other people, but it's like you have to convince them that they're worth it too. And so what I would say is like, you are definitely worth it. And in fact, if you want to make the greatest impact ever in your business, be healthy first. If you want to make the greatest impact in your family, be healthy first. And so when we do that, what we often find is we're surrounded by people who like legitimately want to help us and care about us that we've just been shutting out.

And so they don't know what to do. I mean, it's kind of like if you have ever been with somebody and they give you a gift or they pay for a meal and you try to reciprocate and then they won't let you. How bad that feels, right? To just feel like, OK, well, I guess I have to let them always do the thing and I can't give anything back. Chances are, if you're struggling with this, you are surrounded by people feeling that way. Right. They go, I sure appreciate what you're giving, but like I give something back every once in a while because I would sure like to do that for you.

And so the gift of all of this is that you often find you're surrounded by a lot of people who just love you. And for them, it's not that complicated, right? They're just like, I just love you. And you don't have to do the thing where you provide your value or prove it or like you just be you. And that's okay. Like the business will be what it is. And we just love you anyway. And that is a tremendous opportunity.

So looking back to all of the, uh, all the conversations, all the intensives, all the coaching, all the therapy, all the, um, you know, help that you've given to business leaders.

If you had three minutes on stage to speak to all of them, you know, just one thing that you've learned maybe recently that's taken you wild alert. Like what's that piece of advice? What's kind of that profound summary of all of this that everybody should understand? Yeah, I mean, I think if I could talk to people who feel like they are driven or called to do big things, I think what I would just tell them is you first, right? Like,

That in and of itself is a beautiful thing, but it'll be as successful as you are at taking care of yourself. And so the people who are called to be big people and impactful people, I think they need to be really healthy people.

And I think we've overlooked that for a really long time. We've been way more interested in what you can do for people instead of how well you take care of yourself. But then consistently we see like people falling off and people struggling and failing and having these issues because we really haven't encouraged people to take care of themselves. And so if you're a person who wants to make a big impact and you want other people to live their best life and be healthy, I would just say you first. And if you can't do that, that's where you need to start.

All right, Jason, this is a lot to kind of absorb and to think about. And I know that there are a lot of people that are going to learn more about this. I'm sure that you have some resources that people can track down, whether they want to do some coaching with you or whether, like we've mentioned your book, like how do people find out more about you and the experience and the wisdom that you bring?

Yeah, absolutely. So my website, jasonvr.com has everything. You can find access to my book, which is also on all major retailers. And then socials is jason.vanruler. And I'm on all the platforms offering daily advice, not only about this, but about how we navigate relationships. And then I've also got a schedule on my site as to where you can catch me on stages, talking with people and organizations about how to do this in real time and walk it out. Amazing.

Jason, I know you're a busy guy. I appreciate you taking the time to come on and share all this wisdom with everybody. And for those of you listening, if you found value in this, please leave a review on whatever platform you're listening to this on, whether it's YouTube or one of the major social media platforms or major podcast platforms.

Let us know what you like, what you didn't like. If you have a glaring question, let us know, and maybe we can get Jason to answer that for you. And appreciate you being on this episode, listening to the end, and we'll see you on the next episode of the Growth Gear Podcast.