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In February 2020, I received that phone call. It was a hard pivot moment in this investigation. A woman that I've been tracking for months finally made contact. Today, we're hearing from Teresa.
Today marks 20 years since emergency responders found a murdered woman inside of a burning home in Kill Devil Hills. The victim was 33-year-old Denise Johnson. You wouldn't know it looking at this home that something terrible happened here 20 years ago, a horrible crime that is yet to be solved. I remember seeing heavy black smoke up in the air. I just remember a pool of blood and her laying in it. We knew obviously something was way wrong. This wasn't just a routine call.
On July 13th, 1997, someone brutally murdered 33-year-old Denise Johnson inside of her childhood home in North Carolina, then set it on fire. For 22 years, Johnson's killer has eluded police, living among us undetected. This is CounterClock, the investigation into the unsolved murder of Denise Johnson. I'm your host, Delia D'Ambra.
Today's episode was originally supposed to be Counter Clock's season finale, but a few weeks ago we had a break in this investigation. I was able to track Teresa down two ways. One, through good old-fashioned detective work, just following information until either it dried up or produced a paper trail that I could follow.
And two, through tips and information coming into the podcast from you, the listeners. Most of the tips were from locals in Virginia and North Carolina who were on the Outer Banks in 1997.
When this season first started, not many people wrote in to me, but as we've aired more and more of the show, you guys have provided a lot of information. Among these tips, a Teresa came on my radar. I'm not going to say her full name for legal reasons and to protect her privacy, so we'll refer to her as Florida Teresa. Florida Teresa is currently in jail for drug possession and continually violating her probation in the state of Florida.
On the day I found her, she was sitting in a detention facility, maybe an hour from where I live, and she still remains there right now. Like, what are the odds? It's so surreal. I spoke to staff at the jail, and they told me she was stuck there, without bond, sort of indefinitely because her next court dates kept getting delayed.
I pulled an affidavit from a clerk of court's database for the county she was convicted in and found out that between 2016 and 2018, she'd showed up in Currituck, North Carolina while violating her probation for drug possession in Florida. And it was that, right there, I knew connected her to the Outer Banks.
Currituck County is just north of Dare County, where Kill Devil Hills is. Currituck is between the Outer Banks and Virginia. What were the chances a woman sitting in a Florida jail would just randomly violate her probation and flee to Currituck County, North Carolina?
I knew it wasn't coincidence. She knew people there, and there was a reason for her to be there. And I was willing to bet it had something to do with her history. And as it turns out, she does have a criminal history in Dare County. But even I couldn't prepare myself for what I saw when I pulled up her arrest record.
In 1990, a Dare County Sheriff's deputy pulled Florida Teresa over in Kill Devil Hills. The address listed for her on that citation, 2012 Norfolk Street. Yeah, Florida Teresa physically lived next door to Denise Johnson on Norfolk Street in 1990 in the same apartment Eric later occupied.
This was it. Within just a few short months, I'd found a Teresa that was looking like the woman I'd been searching for for literally years at this point. But like everything and everyone in this case, nothing is as it seems on first glance.
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It is literally stranger than fiction that Florida Teresa is directly linked to Norfolk Street in Kill Devil Hills. Like, what are the chances? She lived next door to the Johnson home at least for one year in 1990. And even though that's seven years before Denise's murder, the connection is insane. But right as I started hard down the road to contact Florida Teresa in jail, another lead came my way.
One that was about to blow my mind and case wide open. I hit on this other lead, an entirely different Teresa. This one still in Virginia. I couldn't believe it. I went two years unable to find the right Teresa and now here I was with two Teresas that both look like they could be the right one.
Virginia Teresa was pretty much the result of two credible tips from people living in Kill Devil Hills in July 1997, who realized she was no longer going by her true identity online.
Again, in order to respect this Teresa as well and not have her be harassed or falsely accused of this crime, I'm not going to say her last name. It's important we all remember that police have never named a suspect or person of interest in this unsolved crime. No one spoken about or spoken to in this podcast is accused of anything.
Now, even with screenshots from tipsters, it took me a while to find her online. I pulled several court documents for her in Virginia and found discrepancies between what I knew to be her legal name and what other people know her as and what she is on social media. After compiling my information and research, everything began to all line up and I realized I had actually found the right woman.
Florida Teresa was just a red herring. Virginia Teresa was the woman that I was looking for. I knew I had one shot at getting her to talk, so I took a gamble and reached out to some of her friends on social media and asked if they would pass my number along to her. One of them did that, and within a day or two, I had a message from Teresa in my inbox. She thought I was spam and told me, quote, "'I don't know you.'"
I replied that I knew she didn't know me, and then I wrote something that could either have killed the conversation then, or maybe, just maybe, would pique her interest. I sent a reply explaining I'd been trying to contact her for a story I'm investigating, and as a follow-up to a conversation I had with Eric, her ex-boyfriend from Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina.
One minute later, she wrote back and asked for my number. It was that last part I wrote that I believe got her attention. Fifteen minutes after asking for my number, my phone rang. I recorded the call, but she would not consent for me to use her voice in our show. So our executive producer, Ashley Flowers, someone most of you will probably recognize, voiced over Teresa's end of our call.
Hello, this is Delia D'Ambra on a recorded line for CounterClock Podcast. Can I help you? You're on a recorded line? I prefer not to be recorded. I don't mind speaking with you at all, but I prefer not to be recorded. Is this Teresa? It is.
I did take a look at your podcast and I am being recorded. And it's my name out there. So for my protection, I don't mind cooperating with you and trying to help you with your little podcast. But I would prefer that you contact the detective there, like I said, to
spoken with them years ago and been exonerated from anything. Look, up until this point, I've researched a lot of different Teresa's and I have not ever named anyone's last name at all and neither has anyone in my actual podcast. I haven't mentioned Eric's last name either because I don't want anyone out there being seen in a suspect light. Honestly, it was so many years ago, Delia.
And, you know, really, it's just weighed on my heart. This whole case has always weighed on my heart. And it's just really been, it was a really, really bad time for me. So with me living in Virginia and him there, so I just don't know how I can help you to further along your podcast and be able to help this with my name being on your podcast. And I have my own family. And that was so long ago. And I just don't want to be a part of it.
I don't like being slandered for something I had nothing to do with. Well, I definitely in no way at all. I have not personally slandered your last name or who you are. All my podcast has brought up are the facts that people's recollection is of certain individuals that lived on the Outer Banks or visited the Outer Banks in 1997. So in no way am I directly portraying you in a bad light. It's the reason I wanted to contact you because as I'd gone through my investigation, a lot of names have come up.
Unfortunately, that is what's going to happen in any type of situation where the unknown, I mean, fingers could be pointed. It's a small, small town. I live in Virginia. I was in Virginia Beach that particular day or that particular day and night, like I said. I just don't podcast. It was very disheartening to me for people to finger point to me when I had nothing to do with it. And I wish you the best for this.
Do you know why Eric might have, why do you think Eric denied dating you at all when I spoke with him? I don't know. I have no idea why he would deny dating me. I have no idea. I mean, I couldn't tell you. That's something you could probably ask him.
He wouldn't even talk about the matter, and I just don't understand why that's such a big deal, because all of the other people that knew Denise in the Kill Devil Hills community, they all say, you know, they knew who was who and who was dating who, and then for him to not even address that, I thought was just kind of weird. I don't know. I just, all I'm going to say is I would speak with Eric. He was there that night, you know, he was having a party with all his friends. I was home, so just don't know. You might want to talk to him about...
dating me or whatever, I don't know. Couldn't tell you. Because if he was having a party that night and you guys were dating at the time, were you just not there because you were at home? No, no. I was living here in Virginia. I don't know. I don't want to get into all of the questions, to be honest with you, because like I said, I just don't want my name to be associated with something I have nothing to do with. And, you know, this is my life and it's important for me.
to make sure my name is not slandered for something that is irrelevant in my life now.
Well, just to kind of interject here, I know you feel it's irrelevant to your life, but the Johnson family, it's super relevant to them. Oh, no, no, no, no. I didn't mean it like that. When I say irrelevant, as far as me being involved, I mean, that's why I picked the phone to call you. Because like I said, anything I can do to help, I most certainly will do. But after reading the comments on there, it's kind of just taken me aback a little bit because now, all of a sudden, my name's being interjected into something that I had nothing to do with.
Irrelevant, maybe it was the wrong word, but so. I do appreciate you reaching out to me, but at this point, I will kind of back off a little bit because I don't want my name being brought up for something I had nothing to do with. And I do respect that. All right, sweetheart. Beep, beep.
I wanted to give Teresa a few days to cool off and maybe reconsider. I talked with Ashley about what our game plan should be to try and get Teresa to cooperate. What we settled on was reaching out again to Teresa online and writing her an actual letter explaining questions we'd like her to answer.
I wanted to know a few things. If she really was out of town the night of the crime, why Eric wouldn't acknowledge she existed, how she even knew Eric had had a party at his house that night if she was home in Virginia like she claimed, if she was at the Amco gas station at all that night. She never answered any of them. She just sent me a reply that said simply she did not want to be brought into this.
After literally finding both Virginia Teresa and Florida Teresa in the same week, I was in awe and honestly still a little baffled. Again, what are the chances I find two women, both with the name Teresa, both with ties to the Outer Banks and Norfolk Street, but only one was the person I was looking for?
One big reason I bring up Florida Teresa at all is to show you what the investigation is like behind the scenes. The coincidence may at first not feel like a coincidence at all, but just like so many other complicated criminal cases out there, sometimes red herrings manifest themselves and you just have to learn to look past them and push on with every single lead until something of value finally shows up.
So just as my phone call with Teresa was quickly cut off, I got another chance to find out more about her, just through a completely different but incredibly reliable source.
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His name is Mark Wiseman, and he remembers a lot about the residence of 2012 and 2014 Norfolk Street that July. Wiseman personally knew Denise Johnson, despite at the time being years younger than her. Denise, when I was, and I'd known her for a while, she was more like a, she was like a big sister to me. Like when I was younger, like,
Wiseman also personally knows Eric, Denise's next-door neighbor. He worked for him alongside Emilio Baldaggi, who you heard from in episode 8.
Mark has never listened to this podcast, so his interview with me was the first time he talked about the case publicly in 23 years. What knowledge do you have of how he was after the crime and, you know, anybody coming to talk to you guys at the store? So leading up to that, two weeks prior to Denise's murder,
I was living with Eric and his girlfriend at the time. I was between apartments or housing, and I was like, I need somewhere to stay for a couple weeks, you know, so I can get into this new apartment. And I was actually living with Eric and his girlfriend at the time. I think, if I remember correctly, it was Teresa.
Mark says Teresa never warmed up to him. She never warmed up to anyone.
Do you have any recollection of Denise and Eric being involved in any way? No, I don't. I wasn't in Eric's, like, tight little circle of friends that he had, but I was in that alternating loop of alternating, of, like,
connecting friends and we were close enough I felt like if something like that would have happened he would have told me the only incident that I know is like I said because he knew Denise like a long time before he even started dating Teresa and it just so happened that this apartment that he got
And of course, I wrote it off as Teresa's just very jealous person.
There it was, again.
a third person confirming that Denise and Teresa had a run-in not long before her murder, and it was at Eric's apartment inside 2012 Norfolk Street. Mark joins Donna Smithson and Karen Bittinger in remembering that incident. I asked Mark if he remembers police detectives coming into Eric's store after the crime to question people. Amelia, his co-worker then, mentioned that in her interview with me. His response blew me away.
At any point, do you remember speaking with law enforcement? No, absolutely. You know, and that's kind of the interesting thing is, no, I didn't. And...
Was there any reason why Eric would have told you, hey, the cops are going to come talk to you? Oh, yeah. I mean, why would he say that? The reason he told me was because
I had moved out into my new apartment probably like two days prior to Denise's murder. And a lot of some of my belongings were still in the spare bedroom. I had a dresser that I had around with me for years. And it was obvious that the dresser didn't belong in that room because it was for his daughter.
I think, I can't remember how old his son was at the time, but he was young. But it was obvious that that dresser didn't belong in there.
they asked Eric well whose stuff is this and they were like well it's my buddy Mark who works for me he was crashing here till he got into his new apartment and they were like well it looks like he left in a hurry so we're definitely going to want to ask him some questions and that's how Eric approached me about it and I was like well did you tell him you know how to find me or you know do I need to go see them they're like no they'll come talk to you and I told him where you worked and
It is interesting they didn't come by because they say, you know, we'd followed every lead. We looked into everything and not that you're of any reason to suspect. But, you know, at the time you could see maybe where as a good police officer, someone would have followed up with you just to clear the...
Well, you know, that's what I thought. But then I was also thinking, well, I can't really tell them anything that anybody else probably isn't telling them because I really didn't know a whole lot. But it kind of showed me kind of funny, too.
Funny isn't the word I'd use. It's downright ridiculous that not one police officer questioned Mark Wiseman in 1997 or the years after. The man just said he lived next door to Denise up until two days before the murder. Any homicide detective who's worth their salt would think to at least visit Mark and see what he knew. But no, that never happened.
Beyond what we'd already talked about, Mark didn't have too much else to offer. He told me it's been years since he really thought hard about Denise, what he saw or heard then that maybe would still be useful now. But the one thing he feels sure of is a gnawing suspicion he's never been able to shake. What have you thought all of these years of what happened to Denise and who's responsible and do people know things that they're not saying?
If you ask my opinion, I know who I think did it. Obviously, there wasn't enough evidence to go after that person. But I feel like the people that I talked to and some of the people that were actually questioned by the police, like probably 19 out of 20 would have pointed their finger at the same person. Do you think that person's Teresa? I mean, if you quack like a duck and walk like a duck, you're a duck kind of thing. Like, yeah.
I just think that was, and what was weird to me is shortly after that happened, like, Teresa just disappeared. Isn't it weird that she just left? I agree. It is weird. But after communicating with Teresa and getting little cooperation, we'll probably never get the answer to that question. But before I dwelled on that depressing thought too long, I learned I wasn't the only investigator asking that question right now.
There are others on the trail I'm on, and they're not far behind. And it's time I find out, straight from the highest law enforcement officer in the Outer Banks, just how fast the quest for the truth is picking up speed. Thank you for calling the office of Andrew Womble, District Attorney for Camden, Chowan, Currituck, Dare, Gates, Pesquitang, and for Clemens Counties.
Next week is our season finale. You do not want to miss this episode. So make sure you're subscribed to CounterClock on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Follow CounterClock on social media. We're on Twitter at at CounterClockPod and on Instagram, look for the handle CounterClockPodcast. CounterClock is an AudioChuck original podcast. Ashley Flowers is the executive producer and all reporting and hosting is done by me, Delia D'Ambra.
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