CoolerHeads - KEEP Your Hair with Chemotherapy, with Kate Dilligan and Linda Kreter
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Welcome to Wise Health for Women Radio with Linda Prater. Women are pressed daily to give more, learn more, and be more, often at the expense of mind, body, or spirit. Each week with intriguing guests and topics, we'll bring you fresh ways to view your limited time, encouraging a shift to new, healthier perspectives. Wise Health for Women Radio, helping women thrive. And now here's your host, Linda Prater.

Good morning. Welcome. I'm Linda Crater and you're listening to Wise Health for Women Radio. We have an amazing guest today who created a tool for use by cancer patients because of her own experience and because there are so many components to health. So your psychological health is just as important when your physical health is in

Jeopardy. And so we're going to be talking today with Kate Dilligan, who's the CEO of CoolerHeads.com. And if you'd like to, you can follow along ahead with their URL at CoolerHeads.com. And Kate founded

a wonderful device that will help with hair loss, which is so psychologically difficult for people. In fact, I have friends who said that the hair loss was almost as worrisome and difficult to deal with because it was a visible side effect of cancer, which nobody wants to hear that they have cancer. So we are so pleased to welcome Kate Dilligan to our show this morning. Good morning, Kate.

Good morning. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here. Well, I think it's very important. Our audience is made up primarily of women. And I think we all know someone who has suffered the ignominious loss of hair on top of

being scared and fearful and uncertain. And let's face it, the last couple of years have been exacerbating those symptoms. And so let's take a look at how we can really make things better for people. I would love it if you would go back and tell us your story and why this device came about because of what you experienced.

Happy to, happy to. So in late September of 2016, I found a lump in my left breast and my best friend from business school had been living with metastatic breast cancer. So it's not something that I put on the back burner. I went in very quickly to get

to get assessed by my OBGYN. And it came back very quickly that yes, it was cancer. It's a total shock because I don't have the BRCA gene. I have none of the genetic pre, I have none of the genetic markers for breast cancer. And there was no history of it in my family. And I was 42 and it was just a real shock. Um, I had cancer, um,

And my one of my closest friends who's an attorney, she and at one point she was an assistant U.S. attorney. And I bring this up because for a reason came with me to my first several oncology appointments. So when they tell you that you've got cancer, they set you up with a medical oncologist or radiation oncologist or surgeon nurse navigators to walk you through everything that you're going to be in for.

And that morning that we sat there in the medical oncologist's office, and I really didn't know how serious my disease was. And I heard that I was going to have chemo, then surgery, then radiation, and then years and years of follow-up care.

My life just changed at the time. I was an executive at a company where I was one of the first employees. I was running a big business unit. I had, you know, I was traveling all over the country all the time. And then all of a sudden I was sick and I was a cancer patient. And I just sat there in tears and just realized that my life for basically the next year was going to be really different. And I,

you know, I got outstanding care from that medical team and all the appointments I went to, and everybody was super empathetic. But nobody talked to me about side effect management. And it was my friend, Sarah, who came with me to those first appointments, who stayed up late at night and researched, you know, side effects and what could I do. And she found out about cold cap therapy. So this

This was, we had a few days of appointment. So, you know, at our wrap up appointment, after Sarah had told me about cold cap therapy, we asked the nurse navigator, I was like, hey, so Sarah did the research and found out about this thing, cold cap therapy, does it work? Is this real?

And she's like, oh yeah, people do it and have had great success. We just don't talk about it because most people have to pay at least $6,000. I wound up spending over $8,000, which is an African safari. And I've never been on safari in Africa because they're very expensive. And I didn't really... And I say that and that can sound very humble braggy, but I...

For me and for everybody else that's facing hair loss from chemotherapy, it's not about beauty. No. It's about privacy. I agree.

The three things that it's about, it's privacy, agency, and identity. You want to control the narrative about who knows that you're sick. If you're getting the kind of chemo that makes your hair fall out, your life feels entirely out of control. So you want some of that control back, some of that agency. You want to see somebody that you recognize when you brush your teeth in the morning, in the bathroom mirror.

Because this is such to what you said earlier, such a cataclysmic, stressful experience. Anything that you can do to maintain that sense of control, that sense of self, that sense of, you know, for me, like I'm still Kate. I am more than a cancer patient. Right. Cancer survivor.

And I'm very fortunate now that I'm a cancer survivor. You know, as I said, I, I, my best friend at the time had been living with metastatic disease. She died of metastatic disease in 2018. You know, but for the grace of God, go I. You know, that attitude alone shows the resilience that you had and, and having her as a support plus being,

plus your own knowledge and curiosity and knowing how to discover things and go after them there is something about people who have tenacity and grit i have a good friend who had stage three melanoma and is now a survivor and scans are clear just this week and it

It rocked her world, but the way she approached it was much like you did. First, it's a shock. Then it's, all right, how do we tackle this? And I think you tackled it just perfectly.

With grace. And it's really quite amazing to me that you did all of that in that short period of time. Plus, you lost your friend. I'm terribly sorry about that, by the way. Thank you very much. And I will say, you know, I went through, you know, I did.

chemo for four months, then I had a break and then did surgery and then had a break and then did radiation. So like my real treatment for cancer was, you know, October to end of July, end of July of 2017. But, you know, to your point about mental health,

health and overall wellbeing is also, you know, I didn't do therapy. I didn't do support groups during cancer. Everybody should do what works for them, but I definitely did therapy for a few months after I was done with treatment, really getting my sense of self back. And so I just can't say the way I talk about my disease and that experience is

is very much informed by the fact that I spent the time to do the work on it and really to come to terms with it. Because obviously it's now a point, it's a big part of my life. It's what I, you know, I founded this company to evangelize side effect management and to help people, you know, manage that journey. And I had to come to a place where I could compartmentalize it, where I wasn't, you know, always, you know, picking at that scab, if you will.

Well, I think that that's what is very inspirational about this. The people that I know who have beat cancer, and not everyone does, no matter how positive they are or what methods they use to alleviate some stress or to feel purposeful or to achieve more, it is something that gives you the reason to get up in the morning and to express what you're doing. She chose journaling.

and actually wrote a book. And that really helped her. You founded this company, which then helps other people. And I have a huge belief that those who help others help themselves at the same time. Does that resonate with you? Absolutely. And just a little bit more about my backstory. So

Basically, from mid-2013 to early 2016, both my parents were terminally ill and they both passed away. And I was...

the medical power of attorney and all of that. And so, you know, I'd lost my, my father died after my mother did in January of 2016. And so when I got sick and then went through this whole experience, you know, later that year, like it had really just been terrible years. Yes. It's a way, you know, doing this company and having a real mission and

Is a way I mean, I'm very fortunate that I have this choice. Not everybody does. So I don't feel like I deserve, you know, credit or applaud it's for that in particular, but I feel very fortunate that I was able to take a step back and really think about what I want to do with the rest of my life.

What do I want to do that has meaning? Well, exactly. What has significance? You clearly had success before and now you move to something that is successful, but it's also significant in terms of it gives other people choices too about what you said, privacy, agency, and identity. And I think the privacy thing has become even more forward looking at the moment because I think

Privacy is something that is going by the wayside very, very fast. And I'm a very private person. Sounds as though you are a very private person. And giving people choices about how much they share with people, you don't want people's pity. You want their support. And you want to know where you're going. So I really think it's very, very important that you identify those things because privacy

There is a lot more understanding of those who have cancer these days, but the agency and them not telling you just because it was money, they did not give you a choice, did they?

No, they didn't. And, you know, something I want to dig into a little bit on what you said about giving people choices and wanting pitied. You know, when people talk about hair loss from chemo, they really focus in on women because everybody sees, you know, ads in October with bald women wearing lipstick and earrings. Yes. You're if you're a professional man, you know, you're.

you're in your forties, let's say you're an engineer, you're in business, you're an attorney or you're a physician or whatever, like you're in whatever professional setting you're in. And then all of a sudden you're bald. Well, are you going to get that promotion? Are you going to get that big client? Are you going to get to work on that high profile project? And it really is about, you're absolutely right. It's about being pitied, but it's also about being othered. Like I've talked to, I talked to a wife of a grad school student.

friend of mine who is a physician at a major research university here on the West coast. And she did, she did scalp cooling when she was going through chemotherapy for cancer and thank goodness she's fine now. But she was like, I'm overseeing this campus wide initiative and they will take it away from me if they find out that I am sick. And it's, you know, men and women are

You want that, you know, and you don't want your kids to be freaked out. You don't want your partners to be freaked out. It really is this privacy thing and being like, I get to decide how I go through this is really key. It really is. And I think, again, choices make us feel like we have some semblance of control. I think in reality, we all know we have very little control over most of life. But where we do have choices, I think we feel...

The independence of being able to be ourselves, to not give up the core values that matter to us. You're obviously a very decisive person who has enormous intelligence and curiosity, as I mentioned earlier. And I believe that creativity and working with a purpose keeps you healthier, healthier.

keeps you young at heart. And I think it really makes a difference in the outcomes because you are invested in the outcome and you are also invested in achieving. And when we achieve, it's satisfaction and fulfillment and all of those things. And so I really, you say don't applaud you, but I'm going to because I think that helping others achieve

get through a very difficult and private, if they wish to, ordeal.

is huge. And so it's hard to be a patient. You have to be your own advocate, as you've already found out. I work with a lot of veterans and breast cancer is very high in female veterans. And so it is something that we face all the time. So I'm delighted to have this to be able to point out. Don't know if you've tried to go that route, but it's another thought. It

It is something that is more prevalent because of the toxic exposures in combat. So I'm sure you're aware of that. But talk a little bit about how cool cap therapy works.

Sure. So what this therapy fundamentally is, is it's medically induced hypothermia. And so the reason why hair falls out from chemotherapy all over your body is chemotherapy attacks fast growing cells because cancer for solid tumors, which is what like breast cancer, colon cancer, lung cancer, or, you know,

you know, testicular cancer, those are solid tumors. And so what chemotherapy does is it tries to destroy fast growing cells because that's what cancer is. But that's also why your hair falls out. You know, that takes shower brushes, their hair, you know, in the winter, you see, you know, a hair here or there on your sweater, you know,

Your hair is always regenerating, but that's also why you get mouth sores. That's why you get nerve pain. That's why you have digestive distress. That's why your fingernails can fall out because it's attacking like chemo fundamentally is a blunt force instrument, right? Yes. Every part of you to shrink the tumor, right?

And so what cold cap therapy or scalp cooling, which is what we call it when it's done with a mechanical device, such as what we have, is you're bringing the scalp down to 65 degrees before, during, and for a minimum of two hours following each chemotherapy infusion. Because what that is, is that's constricting the blood flow to the hair.

follicles. So those hair follicles are not absorbing chemotherapy at the same rate. And that is fundamentally what preserves a patient's hair. So it is cold. I mean, it's called scalp cooling, right? It brings down. It is cold. But fundamentally, you're putting your hair follicles into stasis when the chemotherapy is at its strongest. And excuse me, throughout the

The several months that patients go through chemotherapy, there's ways that we coach you and not just us, but every other provider, days to wash your hair, days to not wash your hair, not using hot water on your hair. I like to run and work out, but when I was going through chemo, I went for long walks instead because I get raised

sweaty. I'm a sweaty worker outer. It just means you're efficient at cooling. Well done. Exactly. And so, you know, you don't want to do things that they're really pull on your hair. So there's a whole, um,

thought process around how to, you know, minimize any stress to your hair as you go through it. But fundamentally that's what it is. And that's also the reason why scalp cooling is only appropriate for solid tumors. So it's not appropriate for people who have like lymphoma or leukemia, a bloodborne disease, a bloodborne cancer, because if it's a bloodborne cancer, you don't want to restrict the absorption,

I'm going to try to speak English, the absorption anywhere in the body, because obviously it's your blood, right? And so the therapy needs to be absorbed throughout your chemotherapy. So unfortunately it is not appropriate for leukemia and lymphoma patients, but other patients, you know, I had breast cancer, ovarian cancer, stomach cancer, et cetera, et cetera. It's appropriate. Yeah.

That makes perfect sense. And I think one of the things that I found on your website that was really fascinating, because I do know people who've had to go through chemotherapy and radiation, et cetera, and sitting for hours thinking,

with others is a reminder of your illness and you don't feel like you can really do much. People read, they knit, they do a variety of things. But what I loved about your cooler heads and Ama, which is the name of the device, is that it's portable and you can actually get up and move around during the time of the chemotherapy. Is that correct? Did I read that right?

You absolutely read that right. And fundamentally, that's how we're going to change the standard of care because, you know, healthcare, as everybody is aware, is a business. And even if you take the business side out of it, every infusion center is built for the number of patients that they expect to treat on a regular basis, right? So with other systems that have been cleared by the FDA for scalp cooling, you

You know, you have to do scalp cooling before, during, and for a few hours following chemotherapy. Well, the other systems require the patients to remain in that chemotherapy chair for extra setup time, but then for extra cooling time after chemo. So it essentially puts the throughput of that chair in half. So imagine very similar to...

A restaurant. When you pay the bill, they want to keep it so somebody else can sit down and order a cocktail and appetizers, right? They want to go. And so what we've done with Ama is we've created a product where we're not asking the infusion center to change their scheduling or to add to their nursing workload. And that's how we will make this broadly available.

Well, but that makes perfect sense because if it makes more efficiency, if it makes the hospitals more money, if it makes the system more money, that is, I'm afraid that's the way it works. And I think that- But also if they're saying, you know, we have an infusion where we need to see 30 patients a day. And if we're going to offer

Everybody's scalp cooling. Well, we can only see between, you know, 18 and 20 patients a day or between 15 and 20 patients a day like that. That doesn't do it because there's all those extra patients that aren't getting treated. And so.

you know, my background is I have a business degree, I was working in tech. And so I really took to heart something called design thinking, which there's been a big push for that over the last 30 years in industrial design. And it really starts with the question is what, what do you want the experience of this to be like, without saying what it looks like, or how much it

costs or what form factor it is. You say, what do I want this thing to do? And you work backwards from that. So we said, we want this to be patient administered. So we're offloading nurses. We want it to be portable so the patient can leave the infusion chair. And those are really the fundamental principles that we started with. And that's how we kicked off the engineering process.

Well, it worked. And it really makes sense because, again, if you look at what the experience is, and I'm afraid that customer experience, especially in the medical field, is often lacking because you have surgeons who cut.

You have nurses who, mind you, afterward, you have administrators who are looking at every single step of the way. And it really makes it challenging to fit into their system while saving them money or at least not costing them further money. But you're actually creating a new revenue stream. And is this covered by Medicare? Yes.

It was. It's starting in January of this year. And so there's a whole process that we're undertaking to make sure that private payers cover it as well. But huge win. That is a huge win. Huge win. Wow. Now, I have to go back to the fact that you were 42 years old. And that's young.

So is there any time period that it is better to administer this? And how will people learn about it? Obviously, that's why we're having you on today, because we want people to know about AMA and how to learn more about when to use it. What is ideal? Being told that, okay, you have cancer, but

Things have changed since your mother or your grandmother may have had cancer. And these are the things that will make your experience better. Is it coming in the form of advocacy and help with that? Because I think support and help and hope and advocacy is critically important, but it's missing in so much of medicine.

Yeah. And so there's, you know, we've, what we talk about at Cooler Heads is like, and this is, you know, this is the Catholic in me that I really want to evangelize. Nothing wrong with that.

Whether it's our product or somebody else's product, but it really is trying to raise awareness because scalp cooling has really been the orphan stepchild of oncology because it's been too hard to use and it's been too complex and nursing throughput and blah, blah, blah. And so we're really trying to build awareness around

With patients, because patient awareness is so low, but, you know, anybody who has had that cancer diagnosis and if you've been told chemotherapy, I can promise you that.

One of the first three questions you ask is, am I going to lose my hair? And by our business model, by having this be something where now infusion centers get a supplemental revenue stream from having this, having the doctors and the nurses say, yes, you're doing a taxane-based course of chemotherapy, which will cause your hair to fall out, but we have options for you.

And options. That's that is so key to thinking, OK, I can do this. And I don't you think it helps with the mental health of the awareness of the shock that you've just been given with the diagnosis? You have a path to follow. But look at this. There is a patient experience that's going to make it a little more palatable to you. And doesn't it give hope?

Well, not only that, and I completely agree with you on that, but, you know, we are setting up a site up in Oregon and the oncologist we're working with there has a patient that is refusing chemo because she doesn't want to lose her hair. 8% of chemotherapy patients refuse treatment because of fear of hair loss because they just don't want to be seen as that person who's sick.

And if you're being recommended, if chemotherapy is being prescribed to you, that means that that is the way for you to get the best possible outcome. So, and we've seen with COVID that people don't always make rational decisions about their health. And so by also being able to tell that patient who's refusing the care that she needs that

To have, you know, hopefully the kind of outcome that I've been fortunate enough to have where I have no evidence of disease. I'm almost five years, you know, after. Well, I'm very fortunate. You know, it's like, as I said, I didn't do anything special. I got lucky. The drugs worked, which is great. And the drugs are getting better. I mean, the drugs are getting better, more focused, more.

The epigenetic stuff is really, really important. My background is clinical trial work. And so there's a lot going on. And thankfully, we seem to be zeroing in on what is the best course of treatment. But I also imagine, and the reason I mentioned your age again, at 42, you're young. So they're going to come after you hard.

Yeah, because, you know, I have a long life to live. But, you know, what we're seeing is that, you know, it's men, it's women, it's people just wanting a sense, you know, as I keep saying, you know, that sense of that sense of privacy, that sense of control, you know, giving people options around feeling because you really feel like you're in the barrel. Once you get that diagnosis, you feel like, yeah.

I felt trapped. Like people said like, Oh, you bravely fought cancer. I'm like, I submitted to it. What choice did you really have? Well, I mean, I could have refused treatment and then my outcome would have been very different. Like that's sort of like, you're not, you know, saying that I submitted to it, like that's really the way that it felt. And so having any kind of option is just so important. Yeah.

I agree with you. And I think that if you can change people's outlooks in terms of I'm going to refuse because I don't want to lose my hair. We've come a long way with cancer surgery. My mother had been diagnosed with what they thought was breast cancer. And in those days, you went into surgery and.

And this is actually pre lumpectomy. They would do the biopsy on the table. And if it was malignant, you would wake up and you would have had a mastectomy. And the fear that I recall, I was quite young when she went in and it turned out to be benign. It was fine. It was cystic breast disease instead, but malignant.

But we've come a long way of understanding the patient experience and providing care that actually is more supportive. And what you're providing is even more because, again, the privacy, the agency, not making you just your illness. You're more than your illness. You always will be. And you were at the time. Yeah. But it's hard not to feel that way.

When you're walking around with a head wrap and then people don't want to wear wigs because they're just so uncomfortable. Well, and you really hit on something very important, which is that depression and cancer patients. Right. It's linked to poorer outcomes because that sense of hopelessness of like, well, I'm always going to look terrible. I'm always going to feel sick. I'm always going to just kind of be dragging. So we're living in fear.

You know, well, and so what does it matter if I take my drugs on time? What does it matter if I keep my treatment schedule? Like, again, people do not make rational decisions about their health. And obviously, when you're depressed, you're not thinking clearly anyway. And so how do we, you know, by being...

There's been a healthy amount of research that demonstrates that supportive care early on for cancer patients prepares them to cope better with the side effects of treatment and keeps them on their planned regimen. And that's what you want. You want people to be, you know, on their schedule, showing up to appointments, taking their drugs. Like there's a reason, you know, you have a clinical trial.

Well, background, right? Like it is based on medicine. It's science. There's a little bit of art to it as well. But like this is what we know will give you the best possible outcome. So how do we emotionally prepare you so you can cope with that? Well, what you just brought up is exactly what a problem.

a problem we have today in not just the medical systems, but in life in general. If you prepare people emotionally for things as well as, okay, physically this is what's going to happen, it makes a huge difference. Again, I mentioned I worked with veterans, work with veterans. And when you go to Walter Reed and you see people who've lost limbs or who have severe PTSD or who think they have no hope or they need an emergency

immediate response. When you're able to say, okay, you have this you can look forward to, we can then do this when you have achieved that. Those that follow the treatment plan are

are actually able to manage because they've had their emotional health looked after as well as their physical health. And I just use that as an example because I think it's the same in the civilian world. But we also have caregivers these days who need to be educated too, because as caregivers, you can support them.

and keep independent the person who's undergoing the treatment. Whereas in the olden days, it used to be, and I use the olden days on purpose, like Little House on the Prairie. In the olden days, you just would have curled up in a ball and that would have been it. So by helping emotional health, mental health, call it what you wish, it really does give you fortitude and more grit to

And sets the expectations that, you know, I really am going to do everything I can to beat this. Absolutely. Absolutely. So did it change the way that you looked as, I'm sorry, keep going.

No, I was just going to say when I was diagnosed, you know, I had my friend who I mentioned who died in 2018, but another woman who I went to grad school with, I reached out to her because she had just been through a very similar experience the year before I was diagnosed. And in terms of having somebody because...

My friend who passed, she was like, hey, I went through chemo so long ago, like I blocked it all out. And it had been like, you know, 15 years. And so being able to talk to this other woman and ask her about it and get her and feel like, OK, I can do this. Somebody I know just went through this. I can do this. And that's really what we're trying to.

to, again, you know, scream from the mountaintops, if you will, fairness, like, hey, you've got this, you've gotten this really crummy diagnosis.

and you've got this really crummy course of treatment, but here are some very specific things you can do. This is what it will do. This is what it won't do. Like your eyebrows are still going to fall out. Your hair is going to thin, but we want to make it so you can go to the grocery store or, you know, go grab a quick bite to eat and not feel like everybody is staring at you.

Well, and that is a vision that you have been able to achieve. And I think that you've also addressed the facts that people don't, which is the cost, getting coverage for it, having the education piece. Because I personally, in every business I've ever run, and I'm a serial entrepreneur like you, it all comes down to outreach, right?

It comes out to people being aware and knowing what their options are and realizing they do have choices. Some will choose not to. There are always going to be the naysayers. But there will be more people, especially as word gets out and success is shown, that will see, huh,

I can do this. I don't have to give up my entire identity. As you put it so eloquently, I want to like myself when I look in the mirror every morning when I brush my teeth. I mean, you don't want to be looking at a stranger. And again, I think that we have become...

more aware as patients in this world, I would hope, as far as researching our own illnesses. Of course, I do caution people to stay away from Dr. Google, which has 5,347,210 responses to whatever you need. But there is a good bit of research that shows that

Taking control of your care and following your care. I imagine this also makes the physicians and the surgeons, the entire medical team who is helping the patient feel, again, like they've got another tool in their toolkit.

Is that what you're seeing? Absolutely. Doctors, the medical oncologists, the surgeons, the nurse navigators, the center nurses, you know, we have patients using the device already. And so we're, you know, we did our limited market release here in San Diego. And, you know, going to these first infusions, you know, we were there with patients.

With our customers, making sure that everything goes according to plan. And the reaction from the infusion center nurses is that's it. That's like, it's so beautiful. All you have to do really sit.

Well, I also think when you've got them moving up and around and going out, you're also helping to share what's going on with those who are having chemo, who may have thought, I don't want to wear a cap. I don't even want to come to these appointments. You're actually showing the vibrancy that can still remain while you're going through something difficult. It almost becomes a small club and a community, right?

So I imagine you're also using community aspects to spread this. Absolutely. But, you know, what you just said, like when I went through chemo, so I did chemo every other Thursday at the same infusion facility here in San Diego. And, you know, you see the same people because you look.

Sometimes you're on the same schedule and people would walk up to me, you know, after a month or so of treatment, they're like, why do you still have your hair? Or they'd walk up to me and they'd be like, what are you doing? What's this thing that you're wearing on your head? Like, what is it?

And I would explain it to them. And I kid you not, Linda, there were four different conversations I had because I remember each of them where a patient either asked me, how did I keep my hair, what I was doing? And they teared up and they said, you know what? I really wish somebody had told me. I really wish that was for me. Because once you start, it's too late.

Is that true? Okay. So you have to start when the chemo comes. Correct. You want to start at your first chemotherapy infusion. There is some anecdotal evidence of patients having okay outcomes with scalp cooling if they have their first chemotherapy appointment. Because really, when your hair starts to fall out, it's normally between day 14 and day 21 after the first chemotherapy appointment. But you really want to do it

You want to do it, you know, contiguous. And proactively. But you have to do it with each chemotherapy infusion. And so, you know, you're two chemos in, you're way too late.

You know, it makes perfect sense. And I'm really glad. I want to make sure our listeners know where to go to find out about AMMA, which is spelled A-M-M-A. But Kate's URL for finding out more information about the whole process, the journey and how it can go for you can be found at coolerheads.com.

And, you know, I think that this offers amazing options. I will make sure that that is in our show notes, obviously. Thank you. Oh, absolutely. On our Facebook page. And feel free to post this anywhere and everywhere. Because I think that I know too many people with cancer who have lost their hair, who don't go out anymore, who are feeling like they'll go back after their hair grows back, which it never grows back the same way, it seems.

So it's really something that I want our listeners to know about. That's coolerheads.com. So you'll be expanding the platform, I imagine, because you're not one to sit still, I sense. Yeah, so Ama 1.0, the product that we've released to the market, it's not a smart device yet, but our goal is,

But our plan is by the end of next year to have Amma fully digital integrated with the cloud with an app that'll be able to provide you with real-time notifications and coaching throughout the process. So the entrepreneurial journey is you start with something that you call your minimum viable product. You build it.

You do prove that, yes, this works and this is, you know, offloading nurses, offloading infusion center scheduling, allowing patients to do it on their own. But we have a whole plan for the whole digital aspect of it. Right.

Where because that that is really where the power in all of this is, is really creating this very seamless experience. So just easy for patients to do. You know, I am so grateful that you have come on today. When I first heard about this, I was immediately interested and because I have friends and

who knows there but for the grace of God go I so I am grateful to learn about Cooler Heads I love your story I love your attitude your vision your creativity and the drive that you bring to this

And feel free to evangelize any time on our program because that's what makes people know what's going on in the world. Otherwise, it just, it doesn't go anywhere. So I applaud you and your efforts and your entire team. And so go to coolerheads.com. Kate Dilligan has done some amazing work here and we are so glad to have her on our show. Thank you.

Thank you, Kate, for your wisdom. And for the rest of you, make it a great week ahead. And please pass on the word because we all have friends who need support. Thank you for tuning in today. You can find more shows at wisehealthforwomenradio.com.