cover of episode Vivek Ramaswamy Has a Different Vision for Trumpism From JD Vance

Vivek Ramaswamy Has a Different Vision for Trumpism From JD Vance

2024/10/29
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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家,通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Vivek Ramaswamy
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Vivek Ramaswamy认为,美国优先运动内部存在两种对立的未来愿景:民族保护主义和民族自由主义。民族保护主义者倾向于利用政府的力量来实现其目标,例如保护美国工人和制造商;而民族自由主义者则主张废除福利国家,减少政府干预,强调个人自由。Ramaswamy本人更倾向于民族自由主义,他认为这种观点能够更好地服务于美国工人和制造商的长期利益。他还批评了新保守主义,认为其接受了福利国家的既成事实,未能从根本上解决问题。在移民政策方面,Ramaswamy主张优先考虑对美国国家认同的贡献,而非单纯的经济效益。他认为,美国是一个建立在公民理想之上的国家,移民政策应该选择那些对这些理想有更深理解和认同的人。 Ezra Klein则对Ramaswamy的观点提出了质疑。他认为,Ramaswamy的某些观点与拜登政府的某些政策存在相似之处,例如通过与友好国家加强贸易来减少对中国的依赖。他还指出,对特朗普第一任期内政策的解读存在争议,一部分人认为其受到了官僚体系的阻碍。Klein还质疑了Ramaswamy对美国国家认同的看法,认为其忽视了吸引高技能人才的潜力,并且对特朗普移民政策中排斥移民的倾向有所担忧。在讨论行政机构改革时,Klein指出,一部分人认为政府应该被用来实现具体的社会目标,例如加强家庭和社区,这与Ramaswamy主张废除官僚机构的观点形成对立。

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Key Insights

What is the main difference between being a conservative and being America first according to Vivek Ramaswamy?

Ramaswamy believes the term 'conservative' is ill-defined and primarily stands for opposition to radical left-wing excess. 'America first' represents a more unified response against neoconservative visions and focuses on economic nationalism and a renewed sense of national identity.

Why does Ramaswamy criticize George W. Bush's nationalism?

Ramaswamy criticizes Bush's interventionist foreign policy and the use of American taxpayer and life resources to advance goals that did not directly benefit American interests.

What are the two main factions within the America First movement, according to Ramaswamy?

The two main factions are the national protectionist wing, which focuses on economic nationalism and protectionist policies, and the national libertarian wing, which seeks to dismantle the nanny state and promote self-reliance and individual liberty.

How does Ramaswamy differentiate his views from Paul Ryan's neoliberalism?

Ramaswamy is more committed to rejecting blithe neoliberalism, which he sees as promoting economic policies that harm national security and identity, such as dependency on adversaries like China and an immigration policy focused on economic efficiency over national character.

What is Ramaswamy's stance on the administrative state and regulatory reform?

Ramaswamy advocates for dismantling the administrative state and shutting down regulatory agencies rather than using them to achieve conservative or pro-American goals. He believes this is necessary to prevent the repetition of past mistakes and to promote true American exceptionalism.

What are the three competing visions of American identity that Ramaswamy identifies?

The three visions are: 1) Civic ideals enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, 2) Blood and soil conception based on generational ties to the land, and 3) Religious identity, which is unrelated to the founding of the country.

Why does Ramaswamy reject the blood and soil vision of American identity?

Ramaswamy believes that the blood and soil vision makes American exceptionalism impossible because it relies on genetic and ancestral ties, which are stronger in other nations. He argues that America is unique as a creedal nation founded on civic ideals that transcend ethnicity and religion.

What does Ramaswamy see as the root cause of the current political and cultural issues in America?

Ramaswamy believes the root cause is a deep loss of national identity and purpose, leading to a vacuum that people are trying to fill with other forms of identity, such as wokeness on the left and more innate senses of identity on the right.

Shownotes Transcript

Vivek Ramaswamy burst onto the national scene last year as a wild card candidate for the Republican presidential nomination. Here was a relatively unknown biotech executive with no political experience, pitching himself as someone who could carry on Donald Trump’s movement. Trump ultimately won that primary contest handily, but Ramaswamy was a breakout star. There was even chatter that he might be Trump’s V.P. pick.

Trump, of course, ended up choosing JD Vance — Ramaswamy’s friend and former classmate — who has a very different vision for the future of Trumpism. But Ramaswamy believes the future of the Trump movement is still up for grabs and is fighting hard for his camp to win out over the one that Vance represents, including in his new book, “Truths: The Future of America First).”

In this conversation, we discuss the two competing visions that Ramaswamy sees as lurking beneath the surface of Trumpism, what he calls “national protectionist” and “national libertarian,” whether his vision is really so different from Paul Ryan-style conservativism, why he thinks these debates within the Republican Party are really deep down about identity and what it means to be an American.

Book Recommendations:

The Constitution of Liberty) by Friedrich Hayek

The Bhagavad Gita)

The Road to Serfdom) by Friedrich Hayek

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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