Ramaswamy believes the term 'conservative' is ill-defined and primarily stands for opposition to radical left-wing excess. 'America first' represents a more unified response against neoconservative visions and focuses on economic nationalism and a renewed sense of national identity.
Ramaswamy criticizes Bush's interventionist foreign policy and the use of American taxpayer and life resources to advance goals that did not directly benefit American interests.
The two main factions are the national protectionist wing, which focuses on economic nationalism and protectionist policies, and the national libertarian wing, which seeks to dismantle the nanny state and promote self-reliance and individual liberty.
Ramaswamy is more committed to rejecting blithe neoliberalism, which he sees as promoting economic policies that harm national security and identity, such as dependency on adversaries like China and an immigration policy focused on economic efficiency over national character.
Ramaswamy advocates for dismantling the administrative state and shutting down regulatory agencies rather than using them to achieve conservative or pro-American goals. He believes this is necessary to prevent the repetition of past mistakes and to promote true American exceptionalism.
The three visions are: 1) Civic ideals enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution, 2) Blood and soil conception based on generational ties to the land, and 3) Religious identity, which is unrelated to the founding of the country.
Ramaswamy believes that the blood and soil vision makes American exceptionalism impossible because it relies on genetic and ancestral ties, which are stronger in other nations. He argues that America is unique as a creedal nation founded on civic ideals that transcend ethnicity and religion.
Ramaswamy believes the root cause is a deep loss of national identity and purpose, leading to a vacuum that people are trying to fill with other forms of identity, such as wokeness on the left and more innate senses of identity on the right.
Vivek Ramaswamy burst onto the national scene last year as a wild card candidate for the Republican presidential nomination. Here was a relatively unknown biotech executive with no political experience, pitching himself as someone who could carry on Donald Trump’s movement. Trump ultimately won that primary contest handily, but Ramaswamy was a breakout star. There was even chatter that he might be Trump’s V.P. pick.
Trump, of course, ended up choosing JD Vance — Ramaswamy’s friend and former classmate — who has a very different vision for the future of Trumpism. But Ramaswamy believes the future of the Trump movement is still up for grabs and is fighting hard for his camp to win out over the one that Vance represents, including in his new book, “Truths: The Future of America First).”
In this conversation, we discuss the two competing visions that Ramaswamy sees as lurking beneath the surface of Trumpism, what he calls “national protectionist” and “national libertarian,” whether his vision is really so different from Paul Ryan-style conservativism, why he thinks these debates within the Republican Party are really deep down about identity and what it means to be an American.
Book Recommendations:
The Constitution of Liberty) by Friedrich Hayek
The Road to Serfdom) by Friedrich Hayek
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
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