cover of episode Maggie Haberman on How Trump Has Changed

Maggie Haberman on How Trump Has Changed

2024/10/25
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The Ezra Klein Show

Key Insights

Why has Trump become more uninhibited over time?

He has gotten more of himself as time has gone on, influenced by events like the shooting in Butler, Pennsylvania, and Joe Biden dropping out.

How has age affected Trump's public speaking?

He has become less sharp, more rambling, and harder to follow, dropping proper nouns from his sentences.

What does Trump like about politics?

He likes power and being praised, combining both in politics.

What major policies did Trump achieve during his presidency?

He imposed tariffs on China and passed a tax cut package.

Why couldn't Trump fully repeal Obamacare?

John McCain's last-minute vote against the repeal effort stopped it.

How does Trump view the truth?

He views truth as what he can get away with saying, often using it to get out of situations or to convince others for negotiation purposes.

What will happen to Trump if he loses the election?

He will continue to face prosecutions, potential sentencing in New York, and other legal ramifications.

Chapters

The conversation begins with an exploration of what makes Donald Trump unique as a personality and political figure, focusing on his uninhibited nature and how it has evolved over time.
  • Trump's uninhibited behavior has become more pronounced over time.
  • His ability to read a room has been altered, possibly due to significant events like the assassination attempt and Biden's withdrawal.
  • Age has impacted Trump's sharpness and coherence, making him more rambling and harder to follow.

Shownotes Transcript

This week I published an audio essay) about what I think is unique about Donald Trump as a personality and political figure and the dangers he poses if he gets a second term in the White House. But I wanted to go deeper on this topic with someone who knows him much better than I do.

Maggie Haberman is a senior political correspondent for The New York Times and has traced his evolution over the decades in her 2022 book, “Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America).”

In this conversation, we discuss what Haberman agreed and disagreed with in my essay, the forces that shaped Trump’s ideas of politics and power as a real estate developer in New York City, what she thinks he wants from a second term (including his desire for revenge), how his inner circle has changed since his time in office, what he might do if he loses and more.

Note: This conversation was taped before Trump’s former chief of staff John Kelly went on the record) saying that Trump meets the definition of a fascist and confirming that the former president made admiring statements about Hitler.

Mentioned:

What’s Wrong With Donald Trump?)” by Ezra Klein

Trump’s Speeches, Increasingly Angry and Rambling, Reignite the Question of Age)” by Peter Baker and Dylan Freedman

Trump Leans On Creative Bookkeeping to Keep Up in Cash Race)” by Shane Goldmacher and Maggie Haberman

Book Recommendations:

Kamala’s Way) by Dan Morain

Romney) by McKay Coppins

American Carnage) by Tim Alberta

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Annie Galvin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Jack McCordick.

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