cover of episode Jon Stewart Looks Back With Sanity and/or Fear

Jon Stewart Looks Back With Sanity and/or Fear

2024/11/4
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Ezra Klein
一位深受欢迎的美国记者、政治分析师和《纽约时报》专栏作家，通过其《The Ezra Klein Show》podcast 探讨各种社会和政治问题。
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Jon Stewart
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Shane Goldmacher
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Jon Stewart: 本期节目主要讨论了媒体在加剧美国政治分裂中的作用。Stewart认为，媒体通过夸大社会矛盾、制造恐惧和愤怒情绪，扭曲了人们对政治现实的认知，阻碍了不同政治观点之间的合作。他以2010年的“恢复理智和/或恐惧集会”为例，指出当时媒体已经开始夸大社会分裂，而这种趋势在之后的几年里愈演愈烈。他还批评了24小时新闻循环模式，认为其为了保持收视率，会人为地制造紧迫感和恐惧，从而加剧社会焦虑。Stewart还分析了Tucker Carlson和Megyn Kelly等媒体人物的政治转变，认为这与他们被主流媒体排斥，以及对自身被不公平对待的愤怒有关。他认为，媒体应该更注重事实和善意辩论，而不是利用煽动性言论来吸引眼球。 Ezra Klein: Klein与Stewart讨论了媒体对政治的影响，以及“理智”与“恐惧”两种政治美学之间的冲突。他认为，左翼媒体在奥巴马时代强调技术官僚主义和专家意见，而右翼媒体则利用恐惧和阴谋论来争取支持。Klein还探讨了媒体的细分化和算法如何加剧了政治极化，以及媒体如何逐渐丧失对整体内容的控制力。他认为，媒体应该更注重提供平衡的视角，而不是迎合受众的偏好。 Shane Goldmacher: Goldmacher简要介绍了纽约时报的新闻报道方式，强调其对数据分析和记者专业知识的依赖。他认为，媒体应该更注重事实，而不是迎合政治观点。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert decide to hold the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear in 2010?

The rally was a reaction to the heightened political emotions during the Tea Party movement and Glenn Beck's demagogic rallies. Stewart and Colbert aimed to counter the divisive rhetoric by hosting a satirical event that promoted sanity and reason.

How did the media landscape influence the political climate during the time of the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear?

The media, particularly cable news and later social media, amplified hostility and distorted relationships between Americans. Stewart criticized the media for stoking divisions and presenting a false image of the nation through a funhouse mirror.

What does Jon Stewart believe is the primary driver of the division in media and society today?

Stewart attributes much of the division to capitalism and the media's business model, which thrives on generating income through engagement. Fear, anger, hate, and outrage are more profitable than positive content, leading to a warped perception of reality.

How has Jon Stewart's perspective on politics evolved since his time hosting The Daily Show?

Stewart has become more of a left populist, advocating for fundamental changes in the structure of power to ensure that all people, especially the vulnerable, have a voice. He emphasizes the need for a more participatory and equitable economy.

What role does Jon Stewart believe the media plays in shaping political discourse?

Stewart believes the media has a significant impact on shaping political discourse by warping perceptions and creating an atmosphere of outrage and anger. He argues that media outlets often reflect their audience's views unless strong editorial control is applied.

How does Jon Stewart view the transformation of Tucker Carlson from a humorous commentator to a more serious political figure?

Stewart sees Carlson's transformation as a shift from treating politics as a joke to taking it seriously and becoming more dangerous. He attributes this change to Carlson's experience of being rejected by the establishment, which led to a more cynical and hardened political stance.

What does Jon Stewart recommend as a solution to the issues caused by segmented and polarized media?

Stewart suggests that media needs to raise the bar in terms of the cadence and quality of content. He advocates for a more forceful editorial approach to combat lies and bad faith actors, similar to how Roger Ailes built Fox News with a clear vision and purpose.

What are Jon Stewart's book recommendations for the audience?

Stewart recommends 'I Shouldn't Be Telling You This' by Chelsea DeVantez and the works of Kurt Vonnegut, particularly 'Breakfast of Champions' and 'Player Piano.' He praises Vonnegut for his hopeful yet heartbroken perspective on humanity.

Chapters
Jon Stewart and Ezra Klein discuss the polarization of media over the past 25 years and its impact on politics, including the transformation of Tucker Carlson and the changing dynamics of political coalitions.
  • The media has become increasingly segmented and polarized, affecting political discourse.
  • Tucker Carlson's transformation from a humorous commentator to a serious political figure is highlighted.
  • The political coalitions have split into aesthetics of sanity and fear, with institutions and systems on one side and conspiracy and rage on the other.

Shownotes Transcript

In 2010, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert held a satirical rally on the National Mall in Washington, D.C., called the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear. This was amid the Tea Party movement. Political emotions were running high. And Stewart ended the rally with a speech slamming the media for stoking the country’s divisions.

“But we live now in hard times, not end times,” he said. “And we can have animus and not be enemies. But unfortunately, one of our main tools in delineating the two broke.” 

That rally has a Rosetta Stone quality to it now. Because what Stewart was describing has only gotten worse. Our divisions feel deeper and more dangerous. 

So as we enter election week, I wanted to have a conversation with Stewart about some of the arcs he has traced in American politics since he first hosted “The Daily Show” in 1999. We discuss how the media has become increasingly segmented and polarized in the past 25 years, how that has affected politics, how he understands Tucker Carlson’s political transformation and whether his own politics have changed.

Note: The Washington Post is one of several news organizations mentioned in this conversation. We taped this interview before the recent controversy at the Washington Post over ending its practice of presidential endorsements -- a decision made by the paper's owner, Jeff Bezos.

This episode contains strong language.

Book Recommendations:

I Shouldn’t Be Telling You This (But I’m Going to Anyway)) by Chelsea Devantez

The works of Kurt Vonnegut (Breakfast of Champions), Player Piano), Cat’s Cradle), Slaughterhouse-Five), God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater), etc.)

Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected].

You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast). Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs).

This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Elias Isquith. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu and Kristin Lin. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

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