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Due to the graphic nature of this episode, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of sexual assault and the murder of children. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. If you're a fan of true crime, you know how important DNA can be in forensic investigations.
Just in the past few years, advancements in DNA analysis have helped close even the coldest of cases. The Lady of the Dunes, Kristen Smart, even the Golden State Killer.
These days, it's easy to take the science for granted. But as recently as the early 1980s, things like blood and semen samples couldn't necessarily be linked to a singular person. The best way to catch a murderer was with a fingerprint. So if a killer wore gloves or wiped down the crime scene, all bets might be off.
It wasn't until the mid-80s, when a killer struck a tiny English village, that a brand new technology called DNA fingerprinting was first used in a murder investigation. It showed investigators the last thing they were expecting to find and changed forensic science forever.
I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. And we'd love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts.
April 25th marks National DNA Day in the U.S. It's a time to celebrate advancements in DNA research, like the ones that scientists and detectives now use to bring justice to victims. Sometimes after years, or even decades have passed.
Today, we're exploring the first murder case ever solved using DNA analysis. But it's not just the scientific breakthroughs that make this story so fascinating. It's the human drama surrounding them. Without a dogged detective, a renowned researcher, and one brave woman who chose to come forward, this case might never have become the forensic landmark it is today. Stay with us.
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It might take a few tries, but once it's in right, you shouldn't feel it, which is great. For a better way to period, just add Tampax.
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Have you ever experienced something that felt like fate? Maybe it was landing your dream job, meeting the love of your life, or making a life-changing move to a new city. Whatever the case, you look back and realize that a million little things had to fall into place in order for you to be where you are now.
The story you're about to hear is a lot like that. Numerous things had to happen exactly the way they did for the outcome to be possible. And I'm not just talking about a few small coincidences. This story was years in the making. For the people of Leicestershire County, England, the stars aligned just in the nick of time.
The biggest city in the county is Leicester. It's a metropolitan hub with train stations, shopping centres and a university. But drive a few miles out and you'll find three small villages: Enderby, Narborough and Littlethorpe. The villages are connected by a series of semi-wooded footpaths. It only takes 10 or 15 minutes to get from one village to the next. Most of the kids go to the same school.
So while Leicester is a modern city, the villages are a vestige of a simpler time. They each have small markets, a couple of pubs, post offices and churches. Everything feels slightly ancient. In Narborough, the butcher shop proudly displays a sign that says "established 17th century".
But now it's the 80s, so the villages are a unique intersection between the old world and the new era. In the midst of these Renaissance buildings and cobblestone streets, teenage girls walk around with teased hair and blue eyeshadow. One of them is 15-year-old Linda Mann.
Linda lives in Narborough with her mom, stepdad, and two sisters. She's the middle child, but she stands out. She's always trying new hairstyles and fashion trends. Plus, she excels in school, especially with languages. She's learning French, German, and Italian. Her dream is to break out of the villages and travel the world. For now, she's stuck riding the school bus.
On November 21st, 1983, Linda hops off the bus and rushes home. It's a painfully cold day, and she can't wait to be in the warmth. As soon as she's inside, Linda flips open a textbook. She's laser-focused for a while, until it's time for her to go work a couple of babysitting gigs.
The second job falls through, so Linda returns home around 7 p.m. and tells her mom and stepdad she wants to go see a friend in Enderby. She says she'll be home by 10, then bundles up and leaves. Linda gets to her friend's house at about 7.30, but only stays for a few minutes before heading out again. She plans to visit another friend before heading home for the evening, but she never makes it.
Around 12:30 a.m., Linda's parents, Kathleen and Edward Eastwood, get home from a night out. They're greeted by their oldest daughter. She's frantic. Linda hasn't come home, and she should have been back hours ago. Edward sets off into the night to look for his stepdaughter, probably hoping she just lost track of time.
He drives through Narborough's narrow streets and eventually parks his car to walk down a footpath called the Black Pad. He knows Linda would have used this path to get to Enderby. But he doesn't find any trace of her. At 1:30 a.m., he calls the police and reports his daughter missing.
Officers aren't initially concerned. From their point of view, a teenager being out late isn't cause for alarm. Historically, the villages are extremely safe, and Linda's only been gone a few hours. So the Eastwoods are on their own. They keep searching for Linda, holding tight to the thought that she's okay. Less than six hours later, that hope is shattered.
Around 7:20 a.m. on November 22nd, a man is walking to work. He's an employee at the Carlton Hayes Hospital, a psychiatric institution that sits on a big swath of farmland between two footpaths. On the east is Ten Pound Lane. On the west is the Black Pad, the trail where Edwards searched for Linda.
The man is crossing through the field when he sees something in the grass. At first, he thinks it's a discarded mannequin, which strikes him as odd. When he gets closer, he realizes it's a girl. She's unconscious, and there's a scarf squeezed around her neck. The man runs to get a coworker, and together they check for a pulse. There isn't one. At least 30 officers arrive on scene.
They're led by Detective Chief Superintendent David Baker. Investigators canvass the area while a forensic pathologist examines the body. Right away, it's clear the girl has been raped and murdered. The scarf around her neck was likely used to strangle her. For the police, it's a real shock.
This is the first murder case ever investigated in Narborough, Enderby or Littlethorpe. Nothing like this has ever happened in the Sleepy Villages, at least in recent history. But Detective Baker doesn't hesitate. He connects the body to the missing person report the Eastwoods filed the previous night and arranges for an officer to notify the family. He needs to know if this is Linda.
When Edward learns that a body's been found, he races to the scene. Nothing can prepare him for the moment he sees his little girl lying in the grass. The shock and grief are indescribable. He realizes that the night before, he'd walked within just a few hundred yards of her body. All he wants to do is take her home, give her a proper burial.
But he can't do that yet. Authorities need to perform an autopsy. A medical examiner determines that Linda died of asphyxiation. They're also able to retrieve a semen sample. And even though DNA analysis isn't available just yet, police can still use bodily fluids to analyze other aspects of a person's biology.
They figure out that whoever attacked Linda has Type A blood, as well as the enzyme marker known as PGM1+, which can be found in blood and semen. These characteristics allow investigators to narrow down the pool of potential suspects.
However, according to a Forensic Files episode on the case, about 10% of the British male population has this specific combination, so the discovery is more useful for ruling suspects out. Investigators at least have a new tool, though. When they find a person of interest, their first step will be to order a blood test to see if that person matches Linda's killer. The first suspect? Linda's stepdad, Edward Eastwood.
It's a formality. Family and friends are often among the first people police investigate. But Edward gives a blood sample and doesn't match the profile. However, the mere insinuation that he could have done this upsets him. He's mourning his child, and the police are wasting valuable time. In law enforcement's defense, they are trying. They just don't have any experience with an investigation like this.
Once they rule Edward out, they go back to the semen sample to see if they can glean any more information. Experts then notice that the sperm count in the sample is relatively high, which makes them think it came from a young man or teen, probably between the ages of 14 and 31. It's not a lot to go off of, but at least it narrows down their possible suspect pool a bit.
They turn their attention toward all known violent sexual offenders in the villages within that age range. This is a lot harder than you might imagine. Remember, it's the early 80s, so most police records aren't digital. They're stored in filing cabinets. Officers flip through thousands of pages to compile a list of leads.
At the same time, members of the community flood them with calls. It seems like everyone has a tip. They saw a teenager with a punk haircut who looked suspicious, or heard a stranger at a pub whisper something about the case.
There's also the matter of the Carlton Hayes Hospital. The hospital houses and treats people experiencing a range of mental health problems, not just violent offenders. But that doesn't stop the public, or the police, from considering the possibility that a patient somehow broke out and committed this murder. Remember, the hospital is right beside the black pad, and Linda's body was found on the farmland nearby.
Officers scan through the records of over 10,000 current and former patients to see if any are worth investigating more closely. None of these leads pan out. By Christmas, Linda's loved ones still have no answers.
In February, three months since Linda's murder, the police ratchet up their efforts. There are now more than 100 officers on the case. In total, investigators have taken 3,000 statements and followed up on 4,000 tips. And still nothing. Nothing.
As 1984 carries on, authorities keep hitting dead ends. So the crew starts to shrink. What was once a team of over 100 investigators drops to 50, then 30, then 8. By the summer of 1984, there are just two detectives working the case part-time.
It's not just heartbreaking, it's scary. There's still a killer out there, and Linda's parents fear that if he isn't caught, he'll strike again. It's July 31st, 1986. Fifteen-year-old Dawn Ashworth is working at a newsstand in Enderby. Over the past two and a half years, she's seen all the coverage about Linda Mann's murder.
It might be the biggest news ever in the villages. And Dawn is close to it. She and Linda went to the same school just a few years apart. They had mutual friends. Ever since Linda's body was found, Dawn, along with practically every other teenage girl in Narborough, Enderby, and Littlethorpe, has been getting the same lecture from her parents. Don't go anywhere alone at night. And never take the footpaths.
Dawn finishes her shift at 3:30 p.m. It's still daylight, so walking home alone is no big deal. When she gets there, her mom reminds her they've got a family friend's birthday party that night at 7. Dawn wants to visit a different friend in Narborough beforehand. Her mom says, "Okay, as long as she's home in time for the party." Dawn heads out around 4.
From the Ashworth's house, there are two routes to Narborough: the main road and the shortcut along Ten Pound Lane, which is one of the footpaths I mentioned earlier. Maybe because it's the middle of the afternoon, Dawn doesn't take her parents' advice. She heads down Ten Pound Lane and gets to her friend's house soon after. But her friend isn't home. Her mom says she might have gone to the center of town, which is sort of like a town square.
Dawn leaves, once again walking down 10-pound lane. She never makes it into town. Dawn's parents, Barbara and Robin, wait over two hours for her to come home, but she misses the birthday party and her regular curfew. They're immediately concerned. They can't help but think about Linda Mann.
At 9:40 p.m., Barbara and Robin call the police. Officers don't jump to conclusions. They consider this a missing person case, so they follow the usual protocol: question family and friends, alert the public, conduct searches. Nobody's forgotten what happened to Linda. It's just that police have chosen to believe that was an isolated incident. They don't see any reason why Dawn won't come home safely.
Until two days later. On the morning of August 2nd, a police officer searches a field near the same area where Linda Mann's body was found. It's a routine precaution. But then, the horror starts all over again. There's some foliage and hay piled up in a way that looks unnatural. He gets closer and sees Don Ashworth lying dead in the grass.
The officer calls for backup. Detectives swarm the area and a forensic pathologist examines Dawn's remains. Right away, the pathologist determines that Dawn was raped and strangled, just like Linda. They're able to test a semen sample and figure out that it belongs to someone with Type A blood who is a PGM1+ secretor, just like the sample taken from Linda's body.
Remember, that profile applies to around 10% of the male population, so this doesn't prove the cases are related. But between these matching samples and the fact that both girls' bodies were found less than a mile from each other, the police see a connection. The tiny villages where a murder investigation had never even happened before now live in fear of a possible serial killer.
Street corners where kids used to hang out are now empty. Girls walk home from school in packs. Everyone looks at their neighbors with suspicion, probably because at this point, lead detective David Baker has publicly stated his belief that the killer is, quote, "within this community."
There are a couple reasons he thinks this. First, the footpaths near where the girls were found are only really known to locals. Second, the fact that two murders have occurred in the same place makes it seem unlikely the killer was just passing through. Police feel like he's probably been waiting to strike again.
The investigation ramps back up. Over 200 detectives are on it. Tips pile in. This time, the calls point somewhere. Several witnesses report seeing a motorcycle parked beside 10-pound lane around 4:00 p.m. on July 31st, the time Dawn was likely murdered. Police look into it and find that the motorcycle belongs to a 17-year-old named Richard Buckland.
Two things about Richard stick out. One, he works in the kitchen at the Carlton Hayes Hospital. Police have considered the possibility that a hospital patient could be responsible for these crimes. Now they wonder if it could be an employee. And two, Richard apparently has a reputation for verbally abusing women and girls.
In 1980s England, this amounts to enough for an arrest warrant. On August 8th, six days after Don's body was found, Richard Buckland is taken into custody.
He's questioned by several different officers. He admits he knew Dawn Ashworth. He even says he saw her on the day she died. But the circumstances aren't totally clear. At first, he claims he saw her approaching Ten Pound Lane and stopped to talk to her about a mutual friend. He says he went straight home after that.
But the police continue to press him. They keep pushing and pushing, and gradually, Richard's story starts to change. He seems to know details about the crime scene, details they think only the killer should know.
Finally, after 15 hours of interrogation, Richard breaks. He says he and Dawn walked together along the footpath. At some point, he pushed her into the field beside the hospital, where he raped and murdered her. Then, officers hit him with another line of questioning: "What about Linda Mann?" Richard balks. He's adamant that he had nothing to do with Linda's murder.
Detective David Baker doesn't believe this at all. In a press conference, he says he's "300 percent certain that Richard is guilty of both murders. He just has to prove it." And he thinks he knows how. He remembers an article he read in a local paper, the Leicester Mercury, a few months back. It was about a new discovery made by a genetic scientist at Leicester University.
which, as coincidence would have it, is less than 10 miles from where Linda and Dawn's bodies were found. Dr. Alec Jeffries is studying the human genome. He has been since the late 70s. He wants to learn more about how hereditary diseases are passed from one generation to the next.
For a bit of background, by this point, scientists are aware DNA exists. It was discovered in 1869, and the double helix structure was identified almost a century later in 1953.
Knowledge surrounding DNA continued to skyrocket through the 60s, 70s and 80s. Experts realized DNA is found in all known living organisms and is passed through generations. Children inherit half their genome from one parent and half from the other. They also know that all human beings are 99.9% genetically identical.
Every variation in our DNA comes from that remaining 0.1%. And this is where Alec Jeffries comes in. He realizes that within that small variation, each human being is totally unique. Aside from identical twins, who sometimes share the exact same genetic makeup, every person on Earth has a distinctive DNA pattern.
Right away, Jeffries knows how pivotal this discovery is. Because everyone's DNA is both inherited and unique, it could be instrumental in identifying deceased individuals or determining whether two people, living or dead, are related. It could end paternity disputes. It could solve crimes.
But there's a major roadblock. Before any of those things can actually happen, Dr. Jeffries needs to find an accurate, repeatable way to isolate that 0.1% of a person's DNA, then illustrate the unique variations. As you might imagine, it's easier said than done.
But after a lot of trial and error, he figures it out with the help of an already established technique known as Southern Blot Analysis.
In the most basic terms, Jeffries takes a sample of bodily fluid and uses a special process to extract the DNA, and then isolates the specific sequence he needs to analyze. He takes the purified DNA sample and injects that into a small block of gel, where an electric current is used to separate the genetic material even further.
Then, he places a filter on top of the gel and transfers the image of the DNA onto it. The resulting image, which has been exposed to a radioactive film, looks like a barcode, with each black line symbolizing part of a person's DNA makeup.
This allows Dr. Jeffries to create images that reflect the genetic profiles of specific people and compare those with samples of unidentified blood, saliva, or semen. He calls these DNA fingerprints.
I can't overstate how huge this breakthrough is, but at the time it's pretty niche. Only people in the scientific community realize how important it will eventually become. That's probably why Detective David Baker didn't find out about it from the BBC, but from a local paper.
Regardless, Baker recognizes that this research could be useful for his particular case. In the fall of 1986, he contacts Dr. Jeffries and asks if he'd be willing to assist with the investigation. Jeffries is ecstatic. This is exactly the opportunity he's been waiting for.
There are two questions to answer: Were Lydia and Don murdered by the same person? And if so, is that person Richard Buckland?
At his lab at Leicester University, Dr. Jeffries analyzes the semen samples found at both crime scenes. When the DNA fingerprints come back, they look exactly the same. This is a huge deal. The DNA confirms that police are looking for one man, a repeat offender. It's no longer just a hunch.
Next, police collect a sample of Richard Buckland's blood and bring it to Jeffrey's lab. Jeffrey's isolates the DNA, captures the image, and creates that genetic barcode. He hands the results to Detective Baker, who can't believe what he sees. Richard Buckland's DNA is not a match.
Police now know for certain Don Ashworth and Linda Mann were murdered by the same person, but that person was not Richard Buckland. Detective David Baker doesn't believe it. He asks another scientist to run the test again. The results come back the same. Authorities are baffled. How did Richard get information about the crime scene? Why did he confess?
Well, if you remember, Richard's confession came after 15 hours of interrogation. As for the details police believed he had from the crime scene, it's possible he got that information from their own leading questions, and they just didn't realize it. In a later interview, Richard says he only confessed because of the pressure.
Investigators are back to square one. But they're not ready to give up. They've made it this far, and they're not going to let all their efforts, or this groundbreaking science, go to waste. Over the next couple of months, Baker's team works with Jeffries to figure out their next move. They come up with an idea. It'll take planning and a lot of effort, but they think it just might work.
On January 2nd, 1987, authorities announced their most desperate play yet. The police send a letter to every man in the villages between the ages of 17 and 34, because that's who was within the 14 to 31 range at the time of Linda's murder. In these letters, authorities ask the men to come to a designated police station on various assigned dates and time slots to give blood and saliva samples.
Over 4,000 men fall into the designated age group, and authorities plan to test every single one. First, to see if they match the type A PGM1+ blood profile. If so, the sample will move on for full DNA fingerprinting.
As I said, it's a massive undertaking. And it's also kind of confusing, because these are voluntary blood and saliva donations. A person who's trying to get away with murder could just… not show up. Police realize this. They're not expecting the killer to waltz in and hand over his blood. Rather, this is a way to narrow down potential suspects. Any innocent man should be willing to submit a sample.
Anyone who doesn't immediately looks suspicious. By August 1987, a year since Don Ashworth's murder, 98% of men have responded. Officers have tested more than 4,000 samples. None of them are a match.
Police look into the remaining 2% and still don't find any compelling suspects. Then, on September 18th, they get a very interesting call. It's from a woman who works at a bakery in Leicester. She says about six weeks ago, she went to a pub with some coworkers. They got to talking about the DNA testing going on in the villages.
That's when one of her colleagues, a man named Ian Kelly, said something she couldn't forget. Ian explained that another coworker, a man named Colin Pitchfork, came to him a few weeks prior in a bind. Apparently, one of Colin's friends had a criminal record, so he was afraid of giving a DNA sample because he thought it might put him back on law enforcement's radar.
As Colin told it, he agreed to submit a sample for his friend. He thought it would be okay because Colin himself didn't move to the village until after Linda Mann's murder, and because the police hadn't sent him a letter. Only now they had, and Colin didn't know what to do. He couldn't submit two samples or authorities would know one of them was false. So he asked for Ian's help.
Ian didn't live in the villages, so he wasn't going to be tested. He could give blood on Colin's behalf, and police would never be the wiser. According to Colin, two wrongs would make everything right. Ian agreed. Ian drove to the testing station. When asked for ID, he handed over a fake passport Colin had made for him. He gave blood and saliva, then signed Colin's name.
A few days later, a letter arrived at Colin's door. His results came back. He wasn't a match. At the pub that night, Ian bragged that he and Colin pulled it off. The woman sat on this information for a while. She didn't want to rat out her coworkers, but she couldn't shake the feeling that Colin was lying about why he couldn't take the test himself. After mulling it over, she decided to call the police.
Officers verify the story by comparing a signature Colin Pitchfork already has on file with the one submitted alongside his DNA sample. The handwriting doesn't match. Ian Kelly forged the signature.
Baker sends officers to question Ian, and it soon becomes clear that Colin was the mastermind behind the whole operation. He manipulated Ian, who detectives describe as, quote, "extremely gullible." Police confirm that Colin's DNA hasn't been tested at all, and even more suspicious, Colin also has a long history of indecent exposure.
Now, in 1980s England, indecent exposure was considered a quote "nuisance crime." That means Colin didn't have to register as a sex offender. Therefore, his name didn't come up when police first searched for suspects. He flew under the radar. But not anymore. Authorities now feel certain that Colin is guilty. Officers are dispatched to his home to make the arrest.
They surround his house, covering all the exits in case Colin tries to run. They knock on the door, and a tall, round-faced man answers. He's only 27, but he looks older. His face is lined and his hair is thinning. It's Colin Pitchfork. An officer tells him he's under arrest for the murder of Dawn Ashworth, and he just stands there. His face is blank.
He asks if he can have a moment to speak to his wife. Police say okay, but that two of them will have to be with him as a precaution. One of the officers calls Colin's wife, Carol, into the kitchen. Colin tells her he's being arrested for the recent murders. Carol's eyes widen. She knows about Linda and Dawn. Their stories have been all over the news for years. But she read the letter with his DNA results, the one that said Colin was innocent.
She's confused. She asks Colin something to the effect of, "Well, did you do it?" Colin stares at her. Then he nods. And Carol lunges at him. She claws at his face and punches him in the nose. The police have to hold her back. They finally get Colin out of the house in handcuffs. Then they drive him to the police station and bring him into an interrogation room.
Colin knows there's no way out of this. He's already confessed to his wife in front of the police. He's also given a sample of his blood, for real this time. It's sample number 4853. And it's a match. So Colin doesn't pull any punches. He's a horrifically open book.
He tells police that on the evening of November 21st, 1983, he'd just dropped his wife off for an evening class at a nearby community college. He was driving home with his infant son in the back seat. That's when he decided to make a pit stop. He was looking for a girl to flash.
He saw Linda Mann walking toward the black pad. He parked his car, got out, and stood further down the road from her. When she got close to him, he exposed himself. According to Colin, Linda screamed and ran into the field beside the Carlton Hayes Hospital. Colin chased her down and raped her.
He claims that at this point, he got worried that Linda would be able to identify him to the police. He didn't want her to report the assault, so he strangled her. He left her body in the field, walked back to his car, and drove home with his child. A few hours later, he picked his wife up from class and acted as though everything was perfectly normal.
Don's murder was similar. On the afternoon of July 31st, 1986, he was driving around looking for someone to flash. He saw Don near 10-pound lane and did the exact same thing he did to Linda. Flashed her, chased her into the field, then raped and strangled her. Afterward, he went home and baked a cake.
Interrogators describe Colin Pitchfork as cold, emotionless, without an ounce of remorse. At his hearing in January 1988, Colin pleads guilty. The death penalty is outlawed in England by this point, but the judge gives Colin Pitchfork a life sentence.
This doesn't seem to faze him. When asked what it'll be like to live out the rest of his years behind bars, Colin says, "I will simply be changing a larger world for a smaller one." It's not the kind of justice Linda and Dawn's families hoped for, but it's enough for the next 33 years at least.
Fast forward to 2021. Colin is 62 years old. He's spent more than half his life in prison, more years than Linda and Don were alive combined. That September, he's released on parole.
The families and the public are outraged, and soon after, reports start coming in about Colin. According to the BBC, he, quote, "approached young women on multiple occasions while out on walks from his bail hostel." He also refuses to comply with the condition of his release, mandatory polygraphs. By December 2021, he's re-arrested.
Two years later, a parole board rules he will stay in prison. For now. Since the 80s, DNA technology has gotten so advanced that experts can now create a profile using nothing more than the skin cells left behind when someone touches a surface. Even a discarded pizza crust can bring down a serial killer. Just ask Lonnie Franklin Jr., aka the Grim Sleeper.
These breakthroughs are invaluable to law enforcement. According to the BBC documentary series, The Crimes That Changed Us, genetic analysis is now used in 90% of murder investigations.
And since scientists can use DNA samples from decades-old evidence, it's also been a driving force in solving cold cases. Like I said before, it's hard to overstate just how pivotal forensic DNA analysis is. And it's forever tied to two teenage girls in those tiny English villages and a scientific breakthrough right in their own backyard.
In the words of Dawn Ashworth's mother, Barbara, "Now, when I hear of a case where DNA has solved a crime, I look up to the heavens and say, 'There you are, Dawn. We've caught another one.'"
Thanks for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We're here with a new episode every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast, and we'd love to hear from you. So if you're listening on the Spotify app, swipe up and give us your thoughts. For more information on the murders of Linda Mann and Don Ashworth, amongst the many sources we used, we
We found The Blooding by Joseph Wamba and the BBC documentary The Crimes That Changed Us, DNA, extremely helpful to our research.
Stay safe out there. Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast. This episode was written by Karis Allen, edited by Sarah Batchelor and Andrew Kelleher, researched and edited by Miki Taylor, fact-checked by Bennett Logan, and sound designed by Kelly Geary. Our head of programming is Julien Boirot. Our head of production is Nick Johnson. Spencer Howard is our post-production supervisor. I'm your host, Vanessa Richardson.