Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Hi, listeners. If you love watching crime dramas, and if you've ever watched an episode or 50 of NCIS, then I've got a new video podcast from Spotify you won't want to miss. The podcast is called Off Duty, an NCIS rewatch, and it's hosted by Michael Weatherly and Cody DiPablo.
Michael and Cody played two of the show's most memorable characters, and every week they invite guests from across the NCIS universe to share behind-the-scenes moments from the making of this hugely popular franchise. We'll share an episode here, or you can head over to the Off-Duty feed on Spotify to watch now.
Okay, welcome to Off-Duty. I'm Cody DiPablo and this is... I'm Michael Weatherly. Oh. I'm off-duty. Can you tell? Yes, I can. I got a little sort of dressed up for you today. Well, yeah, it's kind of golfy. Not going golf. I was kind of going Jimmy Buffett meets Daniel Craig. Okay, I love the shoes. Thank you. The shoes are my fave. They kind of tie the room together, if you know what I mean. We have the wonderful Sean Murray. Oh, yeah.
And this episode is episode three of season three, Mind Games. The games we play with minds. Let the games begin. Welcome to Off Duty, an NCIS Rewatch podcast. This week on the show, we're talking season three, episode three, Mind Games. Gibbs again questions a condemned serial killer whom he arrested 10 years before.
The killer, three days from execution, has offered to reveal the locations of the bodies if he gets to talk with Gibbs. The gang saw that and much more. At the time of this episode's release, October 4, 2005, Wayne Gretzky made his coaching debut for the Phoenix Coyotes. In A3 too? Yeah.
In a 3-2 loss to the Vancouver Canucks. Canucks, but yeah. But anyway, at Rogers Arena, Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston finalized their divorce. Do you remember that? Oh, gosh, that one hurts me a little. That one still hurts me. Yeah. I mean, I remember going through it 2005 and just being like, oh, no. I felt awful for her. That was the Pitts. The Pitts. The Pitts.
Japan announced its intention to conduct its first commercial whale hunt in 18 years. This decision sparked international controversy and condemnation from environmental groups and countries that opposed whaling. It's funny. Condemnation for a sperm whale? Hello? Gross. Is this on?
And, you know, in this episode, Gibbs interrogates a serial killer who's on death row as McGee and DiNozzo go in search of the killer's latest victims. Makes him eat so much cereal that it kills him. Oh, Michael. Oh, Michael. Dad jokes. When Agent Paula Cassidy is kidnapped, the team suspects that a copycat killer is on the loose. Oh. All right. So without further ado. Summary.
Your girlfriend is always emailing me these internet videos. You're a naughty boy, Timmy. Oh my God, I'm becoming Tony. Oh, spinners? What's the point? It's a hip-hop thing. Abby, I've been in this kid's room, okay? It's all black. It's got skulls everywhere. He listens to death metal. Are you trying to make me feel better? Is it not working? It's not necessary, Mickey. Tony, I'm really not in the mood.
So here we are with our delicious Sean Murray. Oh, happy to be here. Thanks, Coach. Pro-balicious. Pro-balicious. What's the name of this podcast again? Full Frontal? No, Off Duty. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Off Duty. Thanks for being here. Full Frontal. Off Duty. This is the thing about the name Off Duty. Initially, couldn't stand it, hated it, and then went through all those other things and there were all these other, you know, we liked the chicken and the fox. But then... This is deciding the name of what this is going to be. What was the original name of the show, NCIS? What was it? Uh...
Navy NCIS. Could there be a worse name? Navy Naval NCIS. Could there be a worse name for a show? Navy Naval? Navy Naval Criminal.
Criminal Investigative Service. Wow, that would have done really well. Right. Dot com. Like, geez. And so you're an executive at CBS, right? And Don's pitched the JAG off, the JAG spinoff. Excuse me. JAG spinoff. I'm just saying that's what it was referred to. I did not coin that. When I got there, they were calling it that.
So you're an intelligent but rather straightforward executive, and you're looking at the number one show on television, CSI. Yeah. So Belisario comes in. He's like, I want to do this. Jag's been off about the naval criminal events. You're sitting in your office going, N-C-I.
C-I-S, C-S-I and C-I-S-I, Navy and C-S-I. Well, a lot of people called it that. The first year, it was Navy and C-I-S. Okay. Because they wanted it to be, the first year, it was aired as Navy and C-S-I. Yeah, but I knew a lot of people that used to call it Navy C-S-I. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because of the... Okay, we're constantly approached by people saying, we love you on the NCI, C-S-I. What's the first memory you have of hearing about NCI?
NCIS. Like as Don or whoever Viv is talking about or whatever. I had actually seen Don going over audition tapes. You're kidding me. I saw Don going over very early audition tapes. Oh, he did that? Oh, yeah. He was watching them in his bedroom and I was there for whatever reason, came by and he was like, no, sit down, watch some of this stuff. I was like,
You don't mind if I use CBD oil, do you? No, not at all. Just relax. Relax. Whatever keeps you chilled out. Just putting the shades back on. I'm putting the shades back on. Whatever does it. I'm off duty. Wait a minute. So you got the privilege of actually sitting through tapes and that part of the casting process. I saw the tapes of...
The Abby character. Oh. Get out. But was it Pauly Perrette? Yep. Oh, so you were a part of that casting experience where you saw the Pauly Perrette. I got to see the casting tapes of people reading for the Abby character, yeah. Did you have like a feeling of watching? Like, you know how sometimes they say like you meet somebody and you get this feeling like, oh my God, I'm going to be connected with them for the rest of my life. It's kind of like a
Okay, I'm going to get into my fruly, fruly stuff, but like past life stuff almost? Well, I can just tell you that watching those tapes, Pauly completely stood out and Don made a point of saying how much he stood out too. Got it. So I just remember that. So seeing P later was not, seeing Pauly was not a surprise. And this would have been like late 2002, early 2003.
I have no sense of time, so you let me know. By the way, we haven't been in the same room together in 10 years. Has it been 10 years? 10 years. The three of us together sitting down and actually talking. 10 years. Wow. Which is insane. I didn't like do the math or anything, but I know when I see you guys, it feels really good. I've called that a decade.
Oh, boy, do we feel it. Oh, boy. But you know what the weird thing is? We all met up, you know, in the Spotify studios. And it was really hard not to get going about all the things that we wanted you guys to be a part of, you know, that are listening. So we had to literally tie our tongues together.
And then at one point we were just given free reign. Like, hey, run with it. Talk. Right. And you can do that forever. Michael's awful about filling space. He's like, come on, give it to us, Kales. I've learned that it's actually a reflex inside my mind that I have no control over. It's compulsion. But here's a compulsive question. If you go into your Wayback Machine. Ah.
And you go back to your first episode, let's say February, January 2003, when you first heard about the thing. By the time you come in, it's like September 2003. Yeah. It's nine months later. Yeah, yeah. And now you're on the set of this thing.
I'm kind of curious. How did you get there? What's the connective tissue? Don Bellisario had this character that he wanted to bring on. And it was not bring on. I think he was kind of trying it out. This rookie character. I think if I recall, the episode was Sub Rosa. And you guys were investigating on base. Second season? No, this was first season. I think episode six or seven. It was the first time we saw McGee's character. Okay.
I've heard stories about Special Agent Gibbs. Only half of them are true. The trick is figuring out which half. It was kind of a one-deal thing. The main characters were going to be on this base in Virginia, and he was the local rookie agent that was kind of helping out a little bit. But you had an eye on maybe this is something that you would do in a recurring way or a series regular way? Was it an option? Well, possibly. It was one of those things where I just didn't know, you know? Yeah.
I mean, Don asked me if I wanted to do this character for this episode, and, you know, we talked about it, and I was into it. Had you done a Jag? I had done Jag. I'd done a couple episodes of Jag. Okay, and it's the same studio up in Santa Clarita where you still are today, Sean Murray. Where I still am today. That's right. All these years later. 20-something years later. Oh, there you go. Sean actually died eight years ago, but he's a ghost. He just haunts that studio. So that's...
Kind of interesting because it's a lot of the same crew that's come from JAG onto NCIS. Yeah, you've got Wiggly Wiggly Webb and you've got Johnny O'Grady and Billy Bake and Jim Cratton. You've got all these guys that have worked at those stages for like 25, 30 years. Oh my God. But what people don't know is that you've been acting for forever. Oh, since I was 12. Yeah. And how did you get started in the acting world? I saw the movie Stand By Me and I said, that's what I'm going to do. Oh, that's such a great movie.
Was it a River Phoenix thing? Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you've always had a love affair for River Phoenix. How could you not? I mean, how could you not? Absolutely. I mean, one brilliant actor. Absolutely. His brother ain't shabby either. So I want to just come into this like, you had done Jag, you understood the feeling of what Patrick Laburteau and the gang over there with, you know, with the big, tall David James Elliott and the beautiful Catherine Bell and the group, right? And...
You come in now to NCIS with the, the Marcus Hormis and the, the, the Mark Weatherby and, uh,
capital P, you got the group and David McCallum. Yes. And do you have any flashbulb memories of that first period, or is it back through the fog banks of time? No, I have a couple memories. I remember showing up in the wrong parking lot for work and someone yelling at me. Classic. And I was like, and I had to pull out my call sheet and be like, I'm this guy, and I'm supposed to be here. And then the tone changed, and then they got me to wherever I was going to go. Yeah.
But I remember doing it, and my first memory, my memory of really vibing you guys and the team was when I had to, and I think you remember this, is when I had to come up and deliver some information on a pier, I think it was. You started playing with my lapel and my jacket. Yes, I was actus interruptus. You were actus interruptus. Right. And that, I guess, sort of...
started a little kind of a thing. Right. So talk a little bit about what that is because for those people at home, the acting thing, it's not just standing on your tape and saying your lines. Even though, by the way, a lot of people think that's what it is. Right. You don't just memorize. You don't just memorize the lines. You don't memorize them. But so when, because it was something that I had discovered on the set of NCIS, which was to screw things up a little bit on purpose and
So that you gave yourself these obstacles that, and then you screw with other people's things and they get mad at you. Well, that disruptiveness, though, would keep you very present. It would. And by the way, the delivery of, I mean, the dialogue that we were given sometimes was so incredibly challenging. Expository. Totally, all that exposition, that if you didn't find some level of play in it, it was like delivering cardboard. And I remember early on, Don saying, this show is between all those words.
It's between all that info. That's where all the stuff is. That's where we play. And I think that's the thing that we all learned how to do, find a play in an impossible delivery of exposition at times. And I'm going to step out on a very thin gangplank. See how I kept it navel? Mark Harmon created that space.
Because without, number one, making that happen, if that guy shuts it down. Stop playing around. Don't touch him. Oh, yeah. He shuts it down. Oh, no. I think he understood the beauty in the play. And where do you think he got it from? What do you think? Because you had worked with Mark Harmon before. I worked. And what did he play? Wait. You worked with Mark Harmon? I worked with Mark Harmon when I was. This is the good stuff. This is the stuff you guys want to know. 15 years old. What? On a show I did for CBS called Hearts of the West.
with Beau Bridges and Lloyd Bridges. Where you played a witch? No, that was not. No. You're thinking, first off, you're thinking a hocus pocus. Yes, okay, okay. And secondly, you're so wrong, you have no idea. I was not a witch. We're going to do the game later with her. For some reason, I got this image of you like on a little like, like on a stick. Of course, I was like, oh, I have to say it now. Sherry, you are the greatest of all time. You are like the mule. I think you mean goat. Yes, the greatest of all time, the mule. Like he definitely wasn't a witch. Yeah.
But I have to say that. What did Mark Harmon play? Mark Harmon played on the show, came on and guest starred as Sam Carver, the drunken rodeo clown.
A rodeo clown with a severe alcohol problem. Mark played that? Yes, he did. Oh, my God, I would hate to see it. You know what I remember? I remember him sitting in the diner, which was like our bar, you know, the bar set, whatever, on the show. And he had the red nose on. He would take the red nose off, shot alcohol, put the red nose back on. Yeah, yeah.
Give it a second. Nose come off. Shot. Oh, my God. That's so funny. And now he just went to the basement. Now he's building a boat. Shot of alcohol. Build the boat. Build the boat. You know, I was not born in the States. And so for me, when I was— Oh, stop it. Are you from another country? I am. And so when I heard about Mark Harmon, I had been told, you know, he was a big pro football player and blah, blah, blah. He wasn't black, but he was college. College. Peru? Ecuador. Stop it. Bolivia. Stop it.
I was told when I was younger that it was Czechoslovakia, by the way, by people in New York. Are you from Czechoslovakia? No, I'm not. Anyway, so I guess what I'm trying to say is I didn't know the trajectory of his acting resume. You know what I mean? And then later on, when we started doing NCIS, I figured out I was probably
probably Google what he's done. But he's done a thing or two. Oh, my God. You were brought up with him. I wasn't. Didn't he play a character named Shoop? That was in summer school. Yeah. That was like a huge character, right? Absolutely. Yeah. And a beloved American character. But when you get to ensemble TV land, you're looking at St. Elsewhere, which was a huge television show and also had this quirky perspective
procedural ensemble cast. Was that right before NCIS? That was in the 80s, no. Gwyneth Paltrow's father was... Was that the one with Denzel on it, too? Yes. Oh, wow, what a cast. Yeah. Oh, and Howie Mandel and Ed Begley Jr., and it goes on. And then he did... Chicago Hope? Chicago Hope. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
And then he did West Wing, another ensemble. Not as much comedy, but with Allison Janney and Brad Whitford and all those guys. Like an incredible ensemble show. So that's kind of what I think about when you come on the set. Because...
You know, I'm throwing just noodles at the wall and seeing what sticks. I got no game plan whatsoever. All I know is that I'm not very good and I better work really hard not to get fired. So I'm employing every tactic. But that's where, by the way, that's where I always feel Michael is so terribly self-deprecating. Because I was always in awe of how this whole thing gelled.
and how the energy and the synergy kind of worked together, and how quick you were, how quick we all were at a certain moment. Like, you'd throw the ball, and there were 10 people just, you know, all of us, you know, at the ballgame. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we were all just waiting to catch it or play. We were so eager to just catch whatever it was that people were throwing at us. We were game. We were game. Oh, we were gaming. Yeah.
Yeah. And it wasn't easy, by the way. No, no. Because if it was easy, if it was easy, everyone would do it. That's correct. We might have said that a few times. Okay, and before we get into mind games, I just want to go memory lane for a second with when we're on a crime scene set. And it's Monday and...
And we're out at Disney Ranch or we're at some bank in Sun Valley or where there's somebody with a missile through their head in the middle of Thousand Oaks. And they could potentially be naked, too, just covered with a tarp. They're usually naked. You're downtown in an alleyway. You're over in wherever the hell we are. Yeah. You could be in Malibu. Crime scene Monday was you have no idea where you are.
But it's early, and Ducky's there first, and you know that it's going to be a, boss, I found something down by the blah, blah, blah, and it's always the same stuff. And the poor guy that they hired to be the dead body who's like naked in a field, uncovered, and Billy Webb's throwing like things on top of him. He's been there naked in the dark since like 3.30 a.m. Yeah.
And Billy Webb, like as they're shooting, they just start laying tarps and reflective things for lighting over the dead. They were like, I think if we can't see that, we could get the actor. Get a little bounce of the light. But maybe the actor could go away and you could just put the. No, you know what? Muzz on the dead, y'all. So, but do you. I can't believe we're laughing about it because it's just.
But do you remember? It's awful. I mean, you think about it now, like the level of humanity that was laying on the floor. No, no. I'm going to go one step. That's a human. I'm going to king how awful this is. And if normal checkers, it's awful. I'm going to king it by saying we then would be standing next to these poor dead people.
No, they were actors. I know they were playing dead bugs. And we would be going, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know. How many more years can you do this? And you'd look at me, you're like, Shetty, it's been five years. I don't know how many more crime scenes I can do. And Sean's like,
I wish it had only been five years. And then perspective. There's a guy who's literally been there. We ignore him. Probably cold. But I will say, we got really good going up to those actors and saying like, how are you? Are you okay? Because we learned how much they went to, you know, everyone would, like people come up to us and be like, you were so busy trying to do your job. You were so busy.
busy trying to do your job that you forgot that they weren't dead, you know what I mean? They weren't playing dead. And you had these actors fully committed to playing dead who would be there and just act dead the whole fucking time. Sorry, can I jump in? Well, and not only that, but then when the camera would pan down, they would be asked the impossible. Wait, what?
Oh, come on. Panning down. Panning down. And then they would be asked the impossible, don't breathe. Right. You know, like, oh, just please hold it. And then we'd forget to tell them to breathe. And they'd be like, I think the dead guy's passed out.
But wait, in Mind Games, in Mind Games, and this is a weird thing. I forgot about the finger. The finger goes, she just... Oh my God, my husband always looks at the finger and he makes me feel so self-conscious. But wait, go to Mind Games. What were you going to say? Mind Games. Yeah. Okay, there's a scene where the woman has been found at the end of the episode, right? Right. And she's one of the women that has recently been killed by the copycat killer, right? And...
At one point, this is, of course, where my... By the way, I barely remember this, but I remember this. No, no, no, but this is where my eyes go. I was like, oh, look at that, and look at the heart carved in the back, and wow, that's a gruesome scene, and oh, the foliage, and this and that, and all of a sudden, I see her belly slightly...
You see a little breathe? And I just went, oh, damn it. Took you right out of it. I was like, but how many times they probably asked that poor woman to hold it. Oh, no. It's impossible. And they'll do the close-up on the face of the body, and they've got the eyes twitching, and that became a thing, apparently, that when they would audition people for the bodies, that they would do an eye twitch test. You're kidding me. To see if they could close their eyes and not twitch around. How did you know that?
I hear things. And by the way, why not just like do a freeze frame? Can we take a moment though? Can we just take five seconds? Yeah. Where we, do you have a cup? A cup. Oh, a toast. Can we toast? Yes. Well, this is a little toast. It's so good to see you, Sean. It is wonderful to see you. And I just wanted, oh, reach, reach. Go all the way. Go all the way.
You always have very long arms. I know, I was all over the mic. And I just wanted to say five seconds of silence for Mr. David McCallum. Yes. So let's do it together. The great David McCallum. Let's just give him five seconds. Absolutely. I know you're going to say something funny because you just can't help yourself. Oh, okay, sorry.
But thanks for that. Here I am with the honest emotions. And you know what? She's like, you're going to bust this up. I am capable of honest emotions. I know that it's a shocking thing. I know you are. I've seen it. I've been through a lot of therapy. So I've learned that I'm actually deeply shallow. I am way down deep. I'm profoundly shallow. So anyway, let's get into the mind game. Oh, Michael. Wait, do you remember this?
He used to draw a third season, these dinosaurs with the... I don't know if you remember that. I don't. He used to do these little cartoons that were like... I remember the cartoons, but I don't remember. The podcast always gets me. Oh, yeah. You got on the podcast. Gosh, darn it. Dang nabbit, as my favorite senator would say. Let's talk about UFOs later, but not now.
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The guy who played the actor who played killer Kyle Boone on that episode, I was watching the episode last night because, you know, first of all, I wasn't in that episode. You watch NCIS every night, though. No, I don't. That wasn't a small amount of time between the killers. They were casting the role of the girl that...
Was supposed to replace. Oh, I don't recall that. Yeah, that's the first episode. Paula Cassidy. Jessica Steen was in there first. Jessica Steen. Right. By the way, I watched the episode and I was like, she was fantastic. Yeah. She was like really solid. We blew her up. But it wasn't on that episode. Not on that episode. It was later on. She blew up. She did. I had to smoke cigars to find the hole in the wall with it. And then the wall thing, she went into the other thing and it closed. I remember that. And I was like, why do we keep blowing up my girlfriends?
Yeah, that was a thing for a minute. We never killed another one that was... That was kind of uncomfortable. I know. I feel slightly uncomfortable in that statement. That means we're getting closer to the Chernobyl core. Oh, God. She was really terrific. But also, the actor who played that, Kyle Boone, Christopher Shire, I remember thinking like,
Yeah. He's pretty good. He's pretty convincing. Yeah. Talk about casting here on NCIS. Kept playing those nine games. Yeah. It was a really good episode, and I think they were casting the girl who was going to replace Sasha during that entire episode, who, by the way, is me. Right. I think that they were still trying to figure out your widow's peak. Oh, God. That didn't come into play until, I think, episode four. Four.
Or three. They were playing with you. So Mind Games, we're now, you've been there for a couple of years. You're a cagey veteran on the set of the NCIS. Cagey. You went to main titles in season two. Yes. Which is a big deal because, you know, you were like extended guest star remix. You were? No, what happened was in the first season-
McGee's, you know, was originally just a one-time appearance in Sub Rosa. And then after Sub Rosa, you know, there was, McGee wasn't there. There was a regular old NCIS episode or Navy NCIS episode. So much like Mind Games. Yes. And then we did. And then we did the next one. Sorry, let's get back. Go back to Mind Games. Can we talk about Me More? Yeah, right. No, but the episode, two episodes after Sub Rosa, they were like three minutes short.
And they said, let's bring back McGee. See, it's all about the infamous three minutes that made you gauze everything. And stick him with Tony. And then after that, I started appearing in each one a little bit, a little bit more, a little bit more. Right. And that was all recurring. And then second season. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, no, no. But it became second season that you became a series regular period. And you go into the main titles. Remember when you had to run through the car wash? I remember very well running through the car wash. Anticipate McGee. Oh.
And that was main titles. I know running through that car wash, which I did many times and was a real car wash. I remember taking a sharp right. That's what a lot of people don't know, by the way. You need to get into the juicy bits. That we ran through the real car wash. Yeah, you need to get into the juicy bits. I take a sharp right. My dress shoes come out right from under me because I'm sprinting. I come down on my right hand. Oh.
And, you know, like a lot of us actor types, we jump up, we just keep doing our thing. We don't even really notice what we do until afterwards. You're like, you broke it and you're like... To this day, I have very limited mobility in my right thumb. And that wasn't a stunt? What? That wasn't a stunt? No, that was me coming down on my hand. Slipping on the soap. Slipping on... The soap.
A wet-ass car wash? She's like, but it was a stunt. So Diamond Farnsworth was in charge of the stunt. Yes, it was fully planned in every way. Was this in the script? No. I was like, you were so good in that. I was injured, and they said, do you have another one in you? You're like, I was injured? I'm still injured, by the way. Like, I can barely move my ass. To this day, I'm reminded of the car wash every time I shake someone's hand. I know, anytime soap suds get near that thumb, it's like...
Just bad memories flood. So do you have a memory of being in the opening titles the first time you saw yourself in it? Because it is kind of a moment. Because I did multiple TV series. Actually, I did a show called Significant Others where I was in a barber chair and it spun around. And they said Michael Weatherly. I was like, oh, I'm in the opening titles of something. I just remember that being a very exciting. Oh, Sherry, you're so cute.
Because I grew up with television and like being, you know, theme songs and all that. You're still very much into that. Yeah, because it's in there. I can't get stuck. So you start doing the show in season two. It comes into focus a lot.
you're starting to get kind of legs under you as a character, but you're still the probie. Absolutely. And so is there, as season three is getting underway, because this would have, mind games, the first thing out of the gate that we're shooting, Jessica Steen is on set. You've just had your first true hiatus. Your life maybe is changing a little bit.
I'm talking 2005. Yeah. Yeah, no, things are, things are, things are changing. You're moving into a new apartment. I'm, I'm with the girl that I'm going to marry. Soon to be married to. You are, and, and this is like. So you're in a smooth sailing good spot. Things are happening. Your life is changing like drastically. Yeah. As it did for all of us on the show, but I wanted to. Well, with the exception of me. Right.
You're about to move out from New York City and change your whole life. Yes, but that happened after I left. The thing about that show is that it was self-absorbing. And that's what a lot of people don't know. You were working very long hours. Oh, we were entrenched in it. You were entrenched in it. And so it was very hard if you were moving cross-country to do a TV show that you had never done before to then have a life outside of it.
Absolutely. And in those first couple of years, that was an extremely difficult thing for all of us, I think. The adjustment. I remember calling my wife Carrie, you know, season three. I think she was my wife at some point during that season. But calling Carrie at like... I went to your wedding. We all did. That's right. It was during season three, right? I got the pictures. But I remember calling Carrie...
From the trailer, from my trailer of a location at like 1.30 a.m. and going, honey, go to bed. I don't know when I'm going to be home. Like we still have this whole thing we got to shoot. And that's what I really remember about those films. I was living in Santa Clarita. Why? So was I. I know, but I moved up there in season two.
And that was like out of necessity. Yeah. Because you were living in Malibu, weren't you? Our whole world was that show. Season one was in Malibu. What made you think that would work? Well, I didn't realize it at the time, but I was really dealing with a major depression. And the only...
I had actually worked with this actress named Justine Waddell, and I met with her in London. I had done The Mystery of Natalie Wood, where I played Robert Wagner. We'll talk more on that later. The irony. But I was in London going through a very big breakup, and I went to sit down with Justine Waddell, who I'd become friends with, and we had tea at Claridge's, and I think I had cocktails. And...
She said you should live by the water because we were talking about... It'll be very healing for a cancer. Yeah.
And she was dead right, so I went out and I got this apartment in Malibu. And so it's interesting, you know, you do have to self-soothe. You have to find—because the show's not going to hold your hand. No, right. Oh, no, no, no. I mean, there's nobody there to make sure Sean Murray's okay. You need to find that piece. Absolutely. Bubba's going to make sure you've got knee pads if you've got to go down for, you know. But, no. Were you ever late to set? I think—
That was a really good segue, by the way. I think one time I was late to set. I'm getting to the pads. I think one time I was late to set, and I learned early on in my career, do not ever be late to set. Did Mark Harmon ever have problems? Did you ever get the freeze out, the 10th Avenue freeze out? The one time I was late, it was, I think it was literally by like maybe six minutes after a call, but I remember running to the trailer, opening the trailer door, and seeing an alarm clock sitting right there. Oh.
Oh, season circa, season two, season one. Yeah, season two. Because the clock was gone by season three. I think it was two. It was definitely two, yeah. Yeah. I heard about the clock because of Sasha. It was the one. And we haven't talked about the clock. Right. We need to talk about the clock. That was the one time I got the clock. And I think I got off pretty easy because it was my one time. I got the clock a lot. Yeah.
I got a lot of clock. Well, you had a three-hour drive-in in the morning. Well, yeah. Season two, not a lot of clocks. Season one, the clock, I was like flavor, flavor, the clock around my neck. You were. What? Well, but you were also driving in from Malibu. I am being close to the water. Cost you, love you. It cost me. But for me, and I want to keep this back in your area because –
I, as I said before, realized that I was having a lot of personal issues that the show... Two things. One, the show allowed me to grow as a person. I had someone in Mark that could be a sort of father figure and somebody who... And Don Bellisario, who was like...
super menschy, but also not sugarcoating anything at all. No, they're tough dudes. Yeah, which is one of the best things about them. It's the greatest thing. And no PAs fetching you things. No, you get in line. You stand in line with everybody, as Mark Harmon said to me the first day of work. You eat with the crew. You eat with the crew. Yeah. And that gave me that. But what it also did was it allowed me to not deal with the rest of my life. So I had these underlying issues that just went...
And I put them under a carpet. But by the way, survival mechanism, how can you deal with life when you're doing something 17 hours a day? But it's a beautiful excuse. We have to hit these next couple of questions. They're actually kind of cool. If you were a serial killer, what would your MO be? This is a dark question, by the way. That's a crazy dark question. But you know what? What would your MO be? From dark to darkness. Hey, killer, what's your MO? What's my MO? What's your MO to stop or end I? Yeah, I was just going to say, do you know what MO stands for? No.
Hi. Wrong. Hi. Go. It's Latin. Go.
It's Latin. You're asking me what my MO would be if I was a serial killer? Hey, I don't write these questions. Listen, AI generates these. Yeah. So we just have to respect AI. It's the world today. It's the future, Sean. Okay, so let me rephrase this. If there was a serial killer, I don't know if you've ever been into that kind of thing. I mean, some people are. My wife loves staying up and watching those things. I know, but which ones do you gravitate towards? Oh, that's a good one.
Yeah, who's your favorite serial killer? No, I mean, there is no such a thing. You like Ted Bundy? Mark Harmon played a serial killer. He did. Very famously. He did, yes. And that guy's M.O. What a moe. That guy.
Yeah. So who's your favorite serial killer? I grew up in the era of Jeffrey Dahmer. Oh, you're a Dahmer. So I'll just go with Dahmer. You're going to go Dahmer. I'll just go Dahmer. Dark. Because that was about, I think, as dark as it can get. Right. If anyone on NCIS were a serial killer – oh, no, no, no, sorry. I just butchered that question. What are we talking about? So who on NCIS?
You got a hard out here. He's most likely to be a serial killer. Like if you were to say like everyone in this cast, who do you think would have been it? Right.
Brian Dietzen. Brian Dietzen. Pauly Pratt. Really? Okay. Yeah, not Pauly Pratt. Abby Shuto. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah, no, for sure. I'm going with Brian Dietzen, the human. No. I'm like the nicest guy in the world. That's why it's perfect. He's the nicest guy in the world. I'm like, that's a great cover. Yeah. Right? No one would suspect. What about you? Cherry. Cherry. I think. It's like something thinking of the Lord of the Rings.
I think Junkles, I mean, I think it's Gibbs. Oh. He spends a lot of time in that basement. And, you know, digging holes and basements and building boats and Viking funerals. You sail that boat out with a fire. What's he doing in that basement? What's inside that mind? What's inside that mind? He's mysterious. Mysterious man. What are you thinking?
Sorry, that's not right. Okay, so what's your favorite Gibbs quote or rule? And does Mark Harmon have any of those that you know of? Any rules that you know of? Well, show up on time or you're going to get the clock. Show up on time is a big one. There's a Mark rule.
Yeah, show up on time. That's a big one. Don't take a sick day. I learned that one. Family first? No, that's not it. I was sick, season three, really, really, really sick. And I had Dr. Pat. Dr. Pat, you know, famous Dr. Pat. He was sent over and he came over to the house. I had like a really awful fever. And Dr. Pat said, you can't go to work.
So I thought, well, if the doctor's telling me that I can't go to work, I must follow orders. So I made the grave mistake of staying home. Right. And I was sent a car and I went to set and Mark came up to me and he was kind enough, but he was very stern and he said,
You come to set, we decide when you're sick. Something along the lines of that. That changed with COVID. But it was you come to set and then we will determine how we address this. And by the way, I don't think I ever got sick again. I mean, I was probably very, very, very, very, very sick. You just had to leave the show. But I think mentally it just did a trick on you. You weren't really... And when you think about it...
You know, anyone in production can do a job, better, worse, whatever. But no one can play McGee. No one can play DiNozzo. No one can play any of the characters. So you really had to be there. And that's a lot of pressure. I remember getting food poisoning one night and just spending the whole night, you know,
and like the worst, and it was like, no, we're in the director's office the next day. Did you get sick? Somebody, there was an ambulance that came once. Where?
Or something else. Oh, no. Didn't you almost fall? That's when I had a tremendously bad flu. Like the worst flu you can possibly get. And didn't you kind of like fall, like plop over kind of? Oh, no. I was having, I like wasn't getting oxygen. Like I was having problems. You had to go to the local. They brought me to the local thing. Emergency room. Yeah. While we were shooting. But that was. I think, look, I think it was a different time. I mean, this was in season two. I think it was before you were there. Yeah, I think it's 2004 because I wasn't there. Right.
No, I think it was just a different time. I think we just worked through it. I was saying on set once when we were shooting the pilots, the Jags, that I hadn't seen my son in months. And I was talking to Mark Harmon off camera. We were on our one waiting to come down the stairs or whatever. And yelling from downstairs was like, nobody cares. It was Belisario, like could hear me on the microphone on his ears saying,
And he goes, nobody cares. You know, toughen up. And, you know, it was like, your life is your life. You made a choice to be on this set. If you've chosen to be part of the space program and you're going to live up there on the International Space Station, boo-hoo. Go cry in a bag of? Money. You told me that. Space money. Ooh, what is that? I like a taste of it. I think that this goes to the heart of mind games because I think that what we're really talking about is that
Making television plays a little game with your mind. I think we all got a taste of that. Undoubtedly. Undoubtedly, and I think we all processed it. To John Lennon's mind games a lot. Yeah, but I think we all processed it quietly. Yes. In our own ways. And they were the devils we dealt with.
when we got home. But we supported each other. We did, but it was very unspoken. It was this unspoken camaraderie, you know? Like, you'd show up to set and you knew that somebody was hurting and you'd want to make it better, but you also knew that you weren't going into that, you weren't violating that private thing that that person was going through. And you brought it to the work. You always brought it to the work. So, you know, if you were not feeling good,
your character is suddenly not feeling good. Right. Oh, yeah. Oh, no, you learned that. I can remember having... Or if you were sad, you fucking cried. Yeah, you... That's just the way it was. Why is Ziva so sad in this episode? It's like, Cody was very sad. He was very sad.
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So we're going to play a game here. It's actually, it's just a little. It's a margarita? No, it's a dandelion tea. Oh, of course. It's good for hormonal imbalances. Not that I have them. And weatherly rum. Weatherly rum. That's good. So this is a game that we're going to play with a lot of our guests. And it's just, you know, we're going to throw out a question and you're going to have to answer. Okay. So how many times has Gibbs been married when the show starts? Poor.
Oh, come on. You know this. Three times. Three? I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to go two. You suck. Three? No, four. Oh. Four. I was closer. You were closer. You were closer. If this was Price is Right, I'd be the one. Okay. All right. I'm down one. Okay. So one of Gibbs' character traits is slapping Denoso on the head. Ouch. When did the first head slap air? Choices?
No choices. You just have an answer. Okay. What season? Just give a season. No. Okay, season one. Okay, season one. Okay, narrow it down. The show premiered September 28th, 2003. Yeah, if you had to choose an episode. I feel like somewhere probably about two-thirds into that season is maybe when the head slapped. So like around 10, 8. 15, 18, 19.
Give us a number, Sean. As far as an episode. No pressure. Okay, okay, hold on, hold on. How many bloody episodes did we do that for? 24. I feel like maybe like 17. All right. What about you? Episode 6. Of season? Season 1. God, you were really close. Episode 4. It was already happening. It was already happening before I got there. Wow. Yes, I remember it well.
Don't strain your eyes, boss. Why doesn't Gibbs lock the front door of his house? I know. Why? Because he's looking for trouble. Oh, God. He's like, come on in. Hey, DoorDash, it's open. Come down to the basement.
I'm making a boat, said serial killer Gibbs. See, I'm not wrong. Only a serial killer leaves his front door unlocked. Why do you think he leaves his front door unlocked? I'm going to go with whatever you said. I thought that was fantastic. I think it's because his wife and his daughter died, and he leaves it open just in case they ever come back. Oh, no, but you were really close, and it goes actually really sad, I think. The answer is because he has already lost what was most important to him. So he actually...
Doesn't care. Yep. He don't care. My God, what a hoss for making a joke. I feel awful now. Honey badger. Well, no, I mean, look, honey badger out when in doubt. This is what it would be like if you had a game show. Really? You'd look like some kind of owl.
You'd look like a very attractive owl. No, I mean like shockingly beautiful, well-spoken. Clearly intelligent. That's why I love you. I have a really funny story about owls. I was somewhere in the south of the United States of America and I had recently manifested a child.
And it was on a full Scorpio moon. Oh, stop it, Michael. What am I doing? Don't give me the smirk. I'm not. I'm a Scorpio. Yeah, I know you are. Okay. So a massive, powerful, full Scorpio moon. And I had done this meditation under this moon by the ocean. And I had asked for a child. And in two days...
An owl flew in front of the window, and it stood in front of the window, and it was looking out the same direction I was looking out the window. And then it pivoted its head, and it looked at me, and I knew I was pregnant. And it was ducky? What? He looks like an owl. Michael, come on. What? Remember how David Tennant used to go, oh, the turn on this. I always say, like, it's funny that you said the word owl, because for me, like, I've always associated owls with the... Yeah. Yeah.
With that moment. It's sort of like that bird delivered the news that I was pregnant. Isn't that cool? And now every single time I hear owls, I'm thinking, am I pregnant? I put the owl in owl.
Can I just share one thing about Mind Games? And this is what someone told me. It may not be completely true, but it's worth looking into. I like things like that. The first time in Mind Games, Mind Games was the first time the term very special agent was used. And it was not used by the Tony character. It was Abby saying very special agent. Oh, wow. Take it away, McGee.
I mean, I'm very special agent McGee. And then the very special agent became adopted by the Tony characters. Because he stole it. That guy. You know. Hey, what are you going to do? That guy couldn't leave a good thing alone, could he? He was like, that's a good thing. I'll steal it. The lobbyist boo-chunks. How many chunks could a boo-chunk chunk of a boo-chunk boo-chunk boo?
I can't tell you what a pleasure it's been to have you here. Can we just do the song as we say goodbye? Oh, God. Ready? One, two, three, and. How many chunks could a poo chunk chunk if a poo chunk could chunk poo? Oh, yeah. How many chunks could a poo chunk chunk if a poo chunk could chunk poo? How many poos could a chunk poo chunk if a chunk poo could chunk poo chunks? Yeah.
By the way, no one's going to get this, but I started calling you Chunky Cheese. No. Chunky Cheese. We had many variations. And then it went from that to how many chunks? Like literally right before we would get into a take. Yeah. That was the mantra. And we would die laughing. And then it was like, action! We'd have to put it away, but it was almost impossible at times. It's been so awesome, first of all, to see you.
Ten years, man. Ten years. All of us together. In one of the sweetest...
which may exist. That hoodie needs like its own. May you time travel back to Lancelot and say hi. Pull the sword. Pull Excalibur from the stone. And I know we're having you again. We're having you again for a Probie episode, so that's going to be fun. Yes, I'm looking forward to that. I just want to thank you guys so much for having me. I really, it's like seeing you guys is like no time. A virtual hug. I give you the COVID hug. I love you guys. I love you guys.
All right. Well, that was a little nostalgic. Emotional. A little emotional. In fact, as we were walking to the stage, well, to the Spotify studio, I remember saying, like, I'm a little emotional about this. It had been 10 years. He was here. It was nostalgic. It was beautiful. We got to nod to the duck man. We did. We got to nod. And which leads me to some fan...
Focus questions. Fan focus. So, hey, Michael, my question is, Tony was a big movie buff. What's your all-time favorite movie? And do you think Tony would enjoy it too? What's your all-time favorite movie? No, don't turn it around. Oh, I have to answer? Yes, you do. This is for you. Lawrence of Arabia. And do you think Tony would like it too? Yes, but I think Tony's favorite movie might be a comedy. Ha, ha, ha, ha.
Okay. Why Lawrence of Arabia? For me, why Lawrence of Arabia? I think because it's about a journey and it's about a kind of quest and a messianic journey of discovery and pushing back against expectations and authority.
Oh, wow. Yeah, but Lawrence of Arabia, an incredible experience. And really, that's what it is. It's not just a movie. It's really the true life of T.E. Lawrence, as told by David Lean and Peter O'Toole and all those other incredibly talented people that put it together. Tony's favorite movie, Joe vs. the Volcano, written and directed by John Patrick Shepard. I think you actually said that at some point during a... It's a Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan movie. That's why it's important. Yeah. Shall I answer that for you? Yes. English Patient.
Which is very Lawrence of Arabia in a way. It's almost in the same world. Well, you would know that. But I remember watching that and just being like, it just killed me into a zillion tiny little pieces. I remember thinking the soundtrack could not have been more beautiful. The costumes, they were just delicious. The acting was impeccable. Did you get to work with somebody from the English patient? I did. I got to work with Juliette Binoche and that was like...
you know, it was such a delight. She is so not what you think she is in the best of ways. She is open and, you know, because she's such a huge movie star and she's so beautiful and she's so, so many things. But when you meet her, you realize that she is so open and so she allows herself to be touched by life all the time. And it's something that I just remember thinking like that is what makes her so beautiful.
beautiful, you know? I just loved her. But I remember that movie just tore me. And I think it's because there's always been a part of me that impossible love. That impossible love where two people really love each other. They go through the...
And then finally when they get together, it's too late. It's timing. It's the impossibility of it all. Even, you know, and I remember being a freshman in college or somewhere around that era when that movie came out. And even then, it just touched me. It was just this thing. I couldn't put it away. Like there was something that resonated deep within my soul. Ralph Fiennes played T.E. Lawrence, I think, in something. But he also did...
He also did Wuthering Heights before he played in the Schindler's List. Yes. And that incredible Julia Pinoche movie, Blue. Oh, God. Blue, red, white. Yes. Okay. Fantastic.
Fantastic. So, hey guys, long time fan, did you guys ever take any props or mementos from the NCIS set as souvenirs? If so, what were they? I'll go first. Okay. I took a hat. You took a hat? I took an NCIS hat, like crime scene hat. Yeah, but I think, didn't we all get, no, no, we didn't. We had to turn them in, but I stole it. Because they were, they were. I took, I took a badge.
You took a badge. I took a badge. Shh, don't tell the authorities. I also took, remember those little notebooks we had that said Naval Criminal Investigative Service and it had a little slot for a little tiny white pen that you put it in. They were crappy little plastic blue books with white plain paper. And I would write my lines in them. Oh. And then Gibbs used to write his lines in them. He'd be like, looks like we have to talk to McDougal about what happened with the crime scene. Yeah.
And I took some boots, some John Varvatos boots. Oh, okay. Well, that's really cool that you talked about boots and stuff like that because, yes, I took some boots too, which, by the way, I still wear. They're like 19 years old and they're awesome. CBS is going to hear this and you will be getting an invoice shortly. Oh, God. Crap. Maybe we can edit this part out. Shoot myself in the foot. And then...
Okay, so if you could swap roles with any other character on NCIS, we've talked about this before, for a day, who would it be and why? I feel the same way about wife swapping as I do about role swapping. It just doesn't happen. Not interested. Yeah, by the way, I feel the same way. But let's say you had to. Let's say you just, you know, you got to do it. So to look at it now as an exercise, you know, when we're doing an acting thing and it's like, you play me, I'll play you. Yeah. Just as an exercise. Gibbs. Gibbs.
Okay. That's interesting. I am going to go ducky.
Really? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah, I'm just kind of curious about that wandering around with all the dead bodies and where your brain goes. It's kind of curious to me. Okay. Well, what can I say about this episode? This was a fun, fun thing to talk about. It was awesome having Sean. Played a lot of mind games. Actually, it was a trip down memory lane. Yeah. It was a lot about that because, by the way, we had not seen him in a very, very long time. I know we said this. So there was a lot of catching up too because we didn't want to have these conversations on the hallway.
No. So we save all of it for here. You can only do it off-duty. Oh, God. What a way to plug it. You. You. You're quick, kitty. All right. Let's go to Gibbs Rules. What's rule number seven? Oh, come on now. Never wear pink with blue. Oh. Wrong. Broke the rule. Always be specific when you lie.
Who came up with those? I wish I'd known that when I was younger. I mean, my God. My God. That is intense. Always be specific when you lie. We're teaching lying lessons. We've got little lying lessons. Let's dismiss that one. We don't like that one. Go to your basement. Drink bourbon and build a boat. Okay.
Did you know that you can watch all episodes of NCIS on Paramount Plus? And you can watch the new episodes of NCIS on the network, CBS. So what's going on next week? You know, I have a little piece of paper that tells me what next week is about. Just magic. Next week on Off-Duty. Off-Duty. I just love the name of the thing, Off-Duty.
A deceased Marine is found encased in a Civil War-era tomb at the Smithsonian Museum, and evidence later comes to light suggestion that he was probably buried alive. That is right. Treasure, death, mystery, and our favorite Mossad agent is back in business. It's season three, episode four, Silver War. Oh, that's after the episode three that I was not in, that I come back, and I think in that one I joined the cast. Yeah, remember that Civil War thing? I believe that was the one with the bear thing.
With Jimmy, I don't, I'm trying to remember. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And we were like goofing around with the bear and Ducky. There was like this, yeah, it's good. That's a good one. Yeah, can't wait. All right, see you next week. Off duty. See you next week. Off duty. Off duty.
Off-Duty with Cody DiPablo, that's me. And Michael Weatherly, that's me, is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Rabbit Grin Productions. Music by Casey Hooper. New episodes released every Tuesday. Thanks so much for watching and listening. Thanks again for listening. Head over to the Off-Duty feed on Spotify to watch video episodes every week.