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So, due to the graphic nature of this story, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes depictions of murder, violence, and substance use. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen.
In 2011, Foster the People's song "Pumped Up Kicks" was everywhere. A Grammy nominee, a song of the summer, a feel-good radio hit. Until people gave the lyrics another look and realized it's about a teenager planning a violent shooting. Finding the hidden meaning was surprising.
just as spending July 4th rocking out to Born in the USA, only to realize Bruce Springsteen's lyrics are criticizing facets of American culture, not celebrating it. People commonly misinterpret songs or mishear lyrics, even musicians themselves. Bob Dylan famously thought the lyrics to the Beatles song I Wanna Hold Your Hand were, "'I get high,' when actually they're, "'I can't hide.'"
Which tells you more about Bob Dylan than the Beatles. Because the true meaning of a song is in the mind of the listener. And when that listener is a serial killer, songs receive the darkest possible interpretation. Today, we're looking at song meanings no one else found because they existed solely inside the terrifying psyche of Charles Manson.
Manson is one of the most infamous criminals of all time. Technically, he never killed anyone himself. He just convinced his followers to kill by using sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
Since it's almost the Grammys, we're going to focus on rock and roll. For the next two weeks, we'll follow how Manson's music obsession led to at least seven murders during the summer of 1969. Today, we'll cover Manson's attempt to get a record deal and how his industry connections led him to the Manson family's victims. We'll also cover the Manson family's first murder.
I'm Vanessa Richardson, and this is Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. You can find us here every Monday. Be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. Stay with us.
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Hello there, I'm Mike Flanagan, and welcome to Spectre Vision Radio's production of Director's Commentary. Director's Commentary is a deep dive into a film through the eyes of the filmmaker or filmmakers who made it. It combines an in-depth interview format with a classic Director's Commentary track, the likes of which used to be common on physical media releases, but sadly are becoming more and more rare these days. Filmmakers talking about film with filmmakers. For people who love film.
and filmmakers. Hi there, Carter Roy here. If you're interested in true crime, especially unsolved murders, serial killers, and cold cases, you'll love my brand new show, Murder True Crime Stories. Each episode covers a notorious murder or murders with a special focus on those who were impacted the most. We'll always leave with the knowledge of why these stories need to be heard.
You can listen to Murder, True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get into this story, amongst the many sources we used, we found Jeff Gunn's book Manson, The Life and Times of Charles Manson, extremely helpful to our research. The audiobook edition is available for Spotify Premium subscribers in our audiobook catalog, so you can check it out after listening to this episode.
Well before the infamous murders, Charles Manson had a rap sheet. He was sent to various juvenile reform schools, then in and out of jail. He spent his early 20s involved in sex trafficking, forgery, armed robbery, and theft.
In June 1960, 25-year-old Manson was sentenced to 10 years in prison. With so much time on his hands, he dabbled in new interests like Scientology and music. He'd always loved listening to the radio. As a child, he'd had an ear for plunking out songs on his aunt's piano. But now he saw music in a new light.
It started when the Beatles hit the scene in 1964, four years into his sentence. Manson was 29, and suddenly he felt like his life had meaning. He became obsessed with music. He was fascinated by Beatlemania. More than anything, Manson wanted a legion of admirers to love him as much as the Beatles.
So he convinced his mother to send him a guitar, took music lessons from fellow inmates, and performed in prison variety shows. Around this time, Manson met Phil Kaufman. Kaufman shared Manson's passion for the music industry. He'd actually go on to work for the Rolling Stones and Frank Zappa, but at the time he was just another convict. And like many of the other convicts, he didn't think Manson's music was that great.
But Manson was convinced he was a genius. Prison staff encouraged his devotion to music as it distracted him from causing trouble. So much so, he earned an early release in March 1967. While Manson mulled over his future, he asked his parole officer for permission to move to California's Bay Area. The officer said yes.
At the time, it was the place for the counterculture movement. Hippies swarmed the Haight-Ashbury neighborhood, seeking love, acceptance, and any drug available. Most importantly for Manson, it had a blooming music scene, with festivals, free concerts, and up-and-coming bands like Jefferson Airplane and the Grateful Dead.
Manson arrived at Haight-Ashbury to discover throngs of men and women in their late teens and early twenties largely disillusioned by the Vietnam War and the materialism and traditional religious values of their parents' generation. The counterculture movement had turned away from established religious institutions and began looking for more spiritually-based guidance.
Many young people began following gurus who seemed to have tapped some kind of nirvana or higher calling. With Manson's magnetism and knack for public speaking, he styled himself as one of these gurus and picked up a small following. He'd play his songs and get people to sing along. Among them was 23-year-old Mary Bruner. She worked in a UC Berkeley library and met Charles Manson while he was hanging out around campus playing guitar.
Mary had only recently moved to Berkeley from Wisconsin, and she hadn't yet made any friends. Manson charmed his way into her home and essentially became her freeloading house guest. Their relationship wasn't immediately sexual, but Manson would sometimes bring other women back to her apartment.
Eventually, she grew jealous. In order to compete for Manson's affections, Mary began sleeping with him too. Manson was happy to take Mary to bed, though he didn't stop collecting other women. Like Lynette Fromey.
Seemingly, Lynette had a falling out with her family around the time she graduated high school. By age 18, she was homeless, living on the streets near Venice Beach, California. According to Jeff Gwynn's book, Manson, The Life and Times of Charles Manson, Lynette was sitting on a park bench by the beach when a shaggy-haired man approached her and asked, "'What's the problem?' By the end of the day, Lynette had joined his followers, and soon they were sleeping together, too."
At first, Manson's polygamy made Lynette uncomfortable, especially as he began sleeping with newer members of the family and committing statutory rape with a follower who was only 14. But sharing Manson's attention was better than being outside the family. Lynette got over it.
In truth, this was just the reaction Manson was counting on. He had a knack for spotting women who would let him push their boundaries. He specifically targeted women who felt devalued by other men and would confuse his manipulative behavior as love. This is how Manson lured Patricia Krenwinkel, who he renamed Katie, into the fold.
Her story is similar to many of the women who eventually followed Manson. She felt lonely and unwanted. At 19 years old, she'd bounced between the homes of her divorced parents and older half-sister and couldn't find a place she belonged. One night in September 1967, Patricia came home to find a group of her friends in the basement, including a shaggy-haired guitar player named Charlie Manson.
Manson immediately picked up on Patricia's insecurities and pounced. The two slept together that night, and Manson told her she was beautiful. Patricia told Manson that night that she would follow him anywhere. And she did. Patricia, Lynette Fromey, and Mary Bruner became the Manson girls. Susan Atkins soon joined their ranks.
In 1967, Susan was also fresh out of jail for robbery. She was living in a commune, taking drugs, and performing as a dancer to make ends meet. She met Manson at a friend's apartment. Manson invited her to join his group, and he established a commune in San Francisco.
In late 1967, Manson decided it was finally time to become a real rock star. He packed his followers into a VW minibus and drove to Los Angeles to break into the music industry. One way or another, he'd get people to listen to him.
After arriving in Los Angeles in 1967, Charles Manson and the Manson girls stayed in a home known as the Spiral Staircase. The home's owner enjoyed being surrounded by interesting people, and he allowed many artists and eccentrics to board there, including the ever-expanding Manson Cult.
Around this time, they met 14-year-old Diane Lake, who lived in a nearby commune with her parents. Diane later wrote that becoming part of Manson's cult was like a raindrop joining a puddle. I blended in easily, my loneliness disappearing.
Manson used his existing followers to draw in more. People were more willing to listen to his ideas when they saw that he was already surrounded by an enraptured crowd. The group swelled to around 20 members, mostly women and a few men. And eventually, those followers brought him a contact in the music industry. Out in Hollywood one day, two of his followers met Dennis Wilson, the drummer for the Beach Boys.
Wilson invited the young women to his house for milk and cookies, and they spent an innocuous afternoon together. After their snack, Wilson excused himself to go to a recording session. The women went back to the spiral staircase house and told Manson all about it. Manson demanded the women take him to Wilson's home now.
When Wilson returned from recording, he found the girls he'd left and Charles Manson surrounded by his followers. They were ready to party. Wilson was not one to turn down a good time, so he let them stay. Not just for the evening, but into the next day and the day after.
For Manson's followers, Dennis Wilson welcoming them into his home was just another example of their leader's magic. Manson told them that he could make good things happen just by envisioning them. He wanted a music career, and a famous musician came into his life.
In reality, Manson was just manipulating easy targets like Wilson into giving him the things he wanted. But to his disciples, it really seemed like he was conjuring good fortune out of nothing. They saw a godlike power, and it only made them cling to Manson more.
Amid the partying, Wilson let Manson philosophize to him and found some of his ideas profound. Like the women Manson collected, Dennis Wilson struggled with feelings of emptiness and loneliness. He'd previously sought meaning in transcendental meditation, but he was open to anyone who might have some answers, and Manson was an expert at convincing people he had wisdom to share.
The two hit it off so well that Dennis agreed to allow Manson and his followers to crash at his home for the rest of the summer.
Though it probably helped that Manson offered Dennis and his friends their pick of the Manson girls. None of the women objected, as if they had much of a choice. One of Manson's rules was that each woman had to let go of all her inhibitions and have sex with whomever Manson told her to. If she couldn't do that, he wasn't interested in keeping her around.
If any of the women ever wavered, Manson would guilt them into obeying, questioning whether they really loved him while also instilling fear with the threat of a slap or a beating.
With his rent paid by his followers' bodies, Manson honed in on his music career. He played his songs for Dennis, who gave him high praise. Dennis reportedly admitted he was growing tired of the Beach Boys' sound and preferred the songs Manson composed. In fact, Dennis even had the Beach Boys cover one of Manson's songs in 1968. If you want to listen, it's called "Never Learn Not to Love."
Dennis also recorded a few of Manson's tracks with him and introduced him to record producer Terry Melcher. Melcher was the son of Doris Day, an A-list actress who currently starred in her own sitcom, The Doris Day Show. Doris was also a famous singer, known for hits like Que Sera Sera and Dream a Little Dream of Me.
Meanwhile, Day's third husband and Terry's adopted father, Martin, had been a top music label executive. So Melcher was the ultimate music industry nepo baby. If Manson could get in with him, every door would open. And it didn't hurt that Melcher had succeeded on his own path. He'd produced songs for the Byrds and the Beach Boys.
There was just one hiccup for Charles Manson: Melcher didn't like him. He found Manson off-putting. Melcher wasn't the kind of person who searched for spiritual advice or metaphysical answers, so he kept Manson at arm's length. Manson spent the summer of 1968 trying to score an invite to Melcher's house on Cielo Drive.
Meanwhile, Beach Boy Dennis Wilson introduced Charles Manson to plenty of other, less self-assured people who all found Manson captivating.
This included singer-songwriter Neil Young, who called Manson "great" and "unreal." It also included plenty of less famous people. It turned out the Manson girls weren't unique. Wilson constantly invited near strangers to his home, like 21-year-old Charles Watson. Watson was thrilled to meet Dennis Wilson, but even more impressed by Manson and his legion of obedient women.
Soon, the family accepted him into the cult and nicknamed him Tex. Another frequent visitor, talent agent and songwriter Greg Jacobson, also took an interest in the group. That summer, Jacobson flirted with the idea of making a documentary. While writing up a film proposal, he referred to the group as "The Family." Manson liked the label and adopted it, The Manson Family.
Sometime that summer, Manson reconnected with his old prison buddy, Phil Kaufman. Kaufman had gotten out around the same time as Manson, and while Manson was picking up women, Kaufman got a job as an assistant for the Rolling Stones. This allowed him to build his own music career on the side. Kaufman still didn't think Manson had much talent, but he did like sleeping with the Manson girls, so he partied with them.
And by the end of the summer, he finally agreed to record an album with him. Everything was coming together. Charles Manson was breaking into the music business and proving himself to be the rock god he always knew he would be. Less than a year after leaving prison, he had an impending movie deal, a gaggle of devoted followers, and a swanky Hollywood home where the party never stopped.
But the endless lifestyle of sex, drugs, and more drugs soon wore on Wilson, who estimated that between food, medical costs, drugs, noise complaints, and property damage, the ever-growing Manson family had cost him around $100,000.
The Manson family was never a particularly large cult. In the early months of '68, they only had about 20 members. But they took over every nook and cranny of Wilson's home, until he finally had to kick them out at the end of the summer. But Manson worked his charm to find new, free housing.
A man named George Spahn agreed to allow the family to live on his ranch in exchange for upkeep of the property and one of the Manson girls at his beck and call.
After the move to Spahn Ranch, Manson's followers observed changes in him. It had always been a regular ritual for Manson to preach to them through lectures or songs. But that winter, his daily sermons became less about love and more about the violent downfall of civilization. He called it Helter Skelter. Follower Paul Watkins later wrote, "'Before Helter Skelter came along, all Charlie cared about was orgies.'
Manson famously pulled the phrase from a song on the Beatles' White Album, which released in November 1968. According to Rolling Stone, Manson was obsessing over the album by New Year's Eve. That night, he asked his followers if they understood what the Beatles were saying.
They might have said that the track Blackbird supports the civil rights movement, Helter Skelter is about an amusement park slide, and Piggies mocks the government. All the inspirations stated by members of the Beatles. Manson would have said that was all wrong. His interpretation boils down to two words. Race war.
According to Manson, after centuries of oppression, Black people were going to kill all white people. Remember, this was right at the time of the Civil Rights Movement. Racial tensions were pretty high. Manson believed the White Album was a message sent directly to him, his sign to kick off this race war. Of course, this wasn't the Beatles' intent. And if Manson didn't find it in the White Album, he probably would have found a justification elsewhere.
But he said he did find it in the White Album, so let's dig into that. Manson said the album's lyrics and song titles confirmed everything he predicted about the future. Blackbird was about Black people rising against oppression. So was Rocky Raccoon. Piggies referred to the corrupt people in power who deserve to be punished. And there isn't much interpretation needed for "happiness is a warm gun."
And for Manson, everything came together in the psychedelic Revolution 9. It's a mishmash of sounds, including the repetition of number nine, the word rise, chaotic crowds, and even oinking pigs.
Greg Jacobson, the talent agent working on the documentary, later recalled Manson explaining, "It was the Beatles' way of telling people what was going to happen. It was their way of making a prophecy. It directly paralleled the Bible's Revelation 9." Revelations chapter 9 describes plagues that kill one-third of humanity at the beginning of the end of the world.
It was a lot to accept. But Manson had two things working in his favor. One, his followers saw him as a guru and were primed to accept anything he said, especially when they were under the influence of LSD. And two, the White Album included a song called "Sexy Sadie," and he'd already renamed Susan Atkins Sadie.
According to Rolling Stone, the Manson family tried to contact the Beatles to let them know they'd received the hidden message, but never got in touch. In the meantime, Manson instilled fear in his followers, encouraging them to withdraw further from society and closer to him.
The family had already found isolation at Spahn Ranch, but Manson wanted to retreat even further. One of the family members mentioned a large ranch her grandparents owned in Death Valley. Next to it was a smaller property called Barker Ranch with two houses, a shed, limited electricity, and a pool for supplying water. Manson thought this sounded like the perfect place to hide out during the coming apocalypse.
The whole family trekked out to Death Valley in the fall of 1968 to scope out the property. Manson got permission from the ranch owner to stay there, but he soon realized that the group wasn't prepared for settlement. They needed to stockpile food, drugs, knives, and guns in order to make the ranch a suitable fortress.
Manson left a few members at the Barker Ranch to keep watch, while the rest of the family returned to Spahn Ranch. Over the next few months, they started collecting whatever weapons they could get their hands on. They acquired dune buggies and motorcycles legally and illegally, then made alterations on the vehicles, adding extra armor and welding on scabbards to hold firearms.
Yet throughout all these preparations, Manson's music career still dominated his thoughts. Because he didn't only see the White Album as the prophecy of a race war, he also saw it as a prophecy about himself.
Listening to the song I Will, Manson took the lyrics, your song will fill the air, sing it loud so I can hear you, to mean that he should not give up on his goal of becoming a musician. And he interpreted the song Honey Pie as confirmation that he wasn't just meant to be a great singer, but the second coming of Jesus Christ, a musical messiah, if you will.
So he kept searching for that record deal. Dennis Wilson and Phil Kaufman had both recorded Manson's songs, but nothing had been released yet. So Manson continued to hound producer Terry Melcher.
At this point, Melcher wasn't that interested in Manson's music, but he was interested in the women at Spahn Ranch, and he recognized that even if Manson's talents as a musician were middling, there was something compelling about him that might warrant a closer look. In March of 1969, Melcher finally agreed to come out to Spahn Ranch to hear Charles Manson play.
In the days leading up to the visit, Manson was fanatical. He and the women he chose as backup singers rehearsed endlessly. Manson usually taught his disciples not to care about appearances, but before Melcher's arrival, he instructed his followers to buy material and hand-sew him a fringed buckskin suit. He also had them clean and bake.
Usually, the family got their food and clothes from dumpster diving, so this was a big deal. Which is why it stung even worse when Melcher didn't show. Manson was furious.
For the next few weeks, Manson was in a funk. He had taught his followers to believe he was infallible. He hated for them to see him stumble. If they started to doubt his ability to become a great musician, they might begin to doubt everything. And then they might leave him. Manson couldn't bear the thought. So somehow he convinced Terry Melcher to reschedule.
On May 18th, 1969, Melcher finally came to Spahn Ranch, and Manson put on the best show he could. Melcher listened politely. After it was over, he gave Manson the name of a friend who recorded tribal music. He thought the friend might find Manson's music more interesting. Then he handed Manson $50 and left. The audition was over.
It wasn't exactly a brush off, but it wasn't a recording contract either. Still, Manson would not give his followers any reason to doubt his success. To save face, he told them that the $50 was a signing bonus, rather than the act of charity it likely was.
But the rejection clearly stung. Manson kept pestering Dennis Wilson and Terry Melcher. After a series of outbursts and threats, Dennis Wilson and Terry Melcher severed ties with Manson completely, leaving his dreams of music stardom dashed.
stewing, Manson projected all the hate and neglect that he'd been carrying onto the industry that had most recently rejected him. And for the first time, everything he hated had a physical address: 10050 Cielo Drive. He committed it to memory and promised to be back.
By the summer of 1969, Charles Manson's family had morphed from a sex cult surrounding an aspiring rock star to a collection of increasingly unhinged doomsday preppers. Manson remained obsessed with the Beatles' White Album, which he believed was written as a direct message to him. He said the song was heralding the end times when a great race war would lay society to ruin.
In his estimation, the race war would lead to the toppling of white supremacy, and the black community would rise to power as the new world leaders. Manson and his friends would stay out of the war completely. They would hide out in the desert, as described in the Book of Revelation in the Bible, and what Manson believed was referenced in the Beatles' song "Revolution 9."
In the desert, Manson tested his control. He pushed his followers to commit strange, petty crimes for him, specifically missions he called "creepy crawlings." At Manson's direction, followers would drive to Los Angeles, sneak into people's homes, then rearrange the furniture in the house while the homeowners were sleeping.
He wanted them to overcome their fears of getting caught trespassing, and to learn to move around silently and without detection. This would be important, he told them, once Helter Skelter began. For the victims, it was unnerving. People would wake up to find all the furniture in their home rearranged, with almost nothing stolen.
Manson did not direct the group to commit acts of violence during these creepy crawling missions, but he did ask them to carry knives at all times because these missions were all part of the group's training. They had to be ready. But as 1969 went on, Manson worried they wouldn't be ready soon enough. They didn't have enough food and weapons for the end times. So he sent his follower Tex Watson to raise some fast cash.
Tex would pretend to be a drug dealer and arrange to sell 25 kilos of weed to a prospective buyer. Tex didn't actually have the drugs, but he had a buyer willing to give him the money up front. Tex figured he could get the money and then disappear before the buyer realized he'd been cheated. But the buyer, who went by the nickname Lotsa Papa, easily traced Tex back to the Spahn ranch and the family.
When Lotsa Papa called demanding his drugs, Manson told him that he didn't know where Tex was. Lotsa Papa replied that he was a member of the Black Panthers, and if he didn't get his drugs or his money back, he and his comrades would come to the Spahn Ranch and murder the family.
Lotsa Papa wasn't actually a Black Panther, but Manson believed the threat. He asked one of the male members of the family, T.J. Walliman, to accompany him to Lotsa Papa's place. Manson grabbed a gun to take with him and gave T.J. specific instructions. Manson would stuff the gun in the back of his pants, and T.J. would enter the apartment behind him. When Manson gave the signal, he expected T.J. to grab the gun and shoot Lotsa Papa.
Once they were in the apartment, TJ locked eyes with Manson. He knew that he was supposed to grab the gun, but he couldn't help hesitating. He thought Lotsapapa would be alone. Instead, he had two guys with him. TJ liked things to be simple, and here, things were becoming complicated. But Manson wasn't fazed by the extra men. He ignored them and nodded at TJ, the signal for him to shoot.
TJ's hand twitched. He knew that when Manson gave an order, he had to obey. That was the deal he'd signed up for when he joined the family. He'd surrendered his individual to the greater whole. He truly believed that he was no longer his own person, and that his body was under Manson's control. When Manson willed him to shoot, TJ expected his body to comply.
But to TJ's horror, he didn't shoot. He froze. When TJ failed to shoot Lotsa Papa, Manson grabbed the gun himself and shot the drug dealer in the chest. Lotsa Papa collapsed as TJ and Manson fled.
They returned to Spahn Ranch, where Manson bragged to everyone that he'd just taken down a Black Panther. He explained that he'd done it for their sakes, to protect them. Meanwhile, TJ was so terrified by his failure to obey Manson that he fled the ranch, fearing for his life. It was a signal to all of them. Manson had shown them what it meant to be a member of the family.
If they wanted to remain part of the group, they had to be ready to kill. Within weeks, that rule was put to the test. In late July 1969, Manson heard about a disagreement between two of his hangers-on, Bobby Beausoleil and Gary Hinman. Neither was officially a member of the Manson family, but Bobby was a lot like Charles, an aspiring musician who liked spending time with the Manson girls.
Gary supplied the family with occasional couches to sleep on, and more importantly, drugs. Drugs were at the center of this disagreement. Bobby Beausoleil had purchased a thousand tabs of mescaline from Gary Hinman, but claimed that the drugs were tainted. Bobby wanted his money back.
Manson figured that as long as Bobby was asking for a refund, he should demand some extra cash for the family. To make it happen, Manson decided to send a few family members to Hinman's house to pressure him. He sent family members Bruce Davis, Susan Atkins, and Mary Bruner. They held Gary Hinman up at gunpoint, while Bobby Beausoleil beat him senseless.
Eventually, Hinman agreed to sign over the pink slips to his two vehicles as payment. But when Bobby called Manson to let him know, he wasn't satisfied. He was sure Hinman had hidden cash. For the next two days, Bobby, Mary Bruner, and Susan Atkins held Gary Hinman hostage in his own home.
At one point, Manson showed up with a sword and tried to intimidate Gary. But Gary wasn't scared of Manson and refused to pay. By now, Charles Manson had been living as a deified cult leader for nearly two years. He didn't take kindly to being rebuked. He used the sword to slice part of Gary's ear off, sending Gary reeling in pain. Then Manson left his followers to continue.
But they hit another snag when Gary Hinman brought up the police. When the Manson family finished torturing him, he planned to report them. Concerned, Bobby Beausoleil called Manson, who said, "You know what to do." Bobby took that as a command to silence Hinman by killing him.
He stabbed Hinman in the chest a few times. Then he dipped his hand in the dying man's blood to draw on the wall. He wrote "political piggy" and then painted a paw print. The plan was to incriminate the Black Panthers. If they were charged for the murder, Hinman's death would heighten racial tensions and help kick off Helter Skelter.
Once Hinman was dead and the evidence was set, the group left, taking Hinman's two cars with them.
It may seem surprising that Manson's followers were willing to kill for him, but through isolating members and limiting outside information, Charles Manson instilled an "us versus them" mentality in his followers. Family members looked to Manson as their only source of wisdom and guidance, even as the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.
Manson exploited their trust to make them believe they had to take a stand against the rich and powerful pigs of the outside world. The family weren't just willing to kill for Charles Manson, they were proud to do it. So when Manson gave the word, Bobby readily obeyed. And when the group returned to Spahn Ranch, Susan Atkins boasted to the other women about the murder.
Meanwhile, Manson told his followers to get ready. A war was coming. Hellfire would be on their doorstep. And when it arrived, all of Los Angeles would burn to the ground. ♪♪
Thanks for listening to Serial Killers, a Spotify podcast. We release new episodes every Monday, and be sure to check us out on Instagram at Serial Killers Podcast. Stay safe out there.
Serial Killers is a Spotify podcast. This episode was written and researched by Christina Pammies, Aaron Lan, Nicholas Zwart, Brian Petras, Mickey Taylor, and Maggie Admire. Story edited by Maggie Admire, fact-checking by Lori Siegel, and sound design by Sam Baer. Our show is brought to you by
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