The Old Guard Needs To Go
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Rise and shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm Bea Spear. And I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream presented by Betches News. Where we explore the absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. I am so happy that that tagline, you know, it permanently applies. Yeah. I was telling Sammy, you know, I was starting to think like,

how am I going to tell Sammy once Kamala gets elected that I'm not sure the show is like what it used to be? We'll have to reiterate it. And then, of course, she didn't get elected. And I was like, oh, no, the show is...

even more valuable than it was before because America is such a weird-ass place. I think this is something that we were going to, you know, we didn't discuss that we were going to talk about this on the show, but we did discuss this off the show. You know, when you said that, you know, I've been thinking too, like, you know, what if she gets elected, the opportunities may just change. You know, maybe there's a, maybe they would invite influencers or creators into the press pool, so to speak. Maybe there's not be an opportunity there, but

once we saw what was happening, I think that we were both feeling like there's so much more to explore here that doesn't necessarily have to be around. Here's the news as it's rolling, because it's always going to roll way too quickly for us to keep up in this capacity. Plus, we each have platforms where we do update people on the news. I have the morning announcements, five minutes every morning, gives you the daily headlines. You're doing it

basically every story on under the desk. So it's like people can get those rolling news updates from us. I don't think we need to do that kind of repetition. But I do think what we want to do is really try to explore, like in our tagline, the absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. And something we've been talking about is maybe getting on the

different people outside of the political realm necessarily that are speaking to what is our American fever dream that we're in right now. Well, and for those of you who maybe came from the V interesting podcast, there's a little bit of V interesting that we might be interjecting here. Like, we're going to have some of the guests that were most loved over there. Like

on that show, we were just finding things that were very interesting about America. Like when we interviewed the woman who runs the only hospice care facility in Utah, it's really the only one in the United States, but she runs the only hospice care facility for unhoused people to die with dignity. Like how interesting. I'd love to talk to her. I think we got to get to know our friends and neighbors a little bit more. And that's why me and Sammy are going to go out into the America and we're going to try to find these pockets of community and interesting stuff. Because if we just bring you the news every day, you're,

It's just going to be too sad. And I think that we'll fall into despair and despair does not lend itself to resilience or resistance.

Well, it's also just like there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be bringing that to you with more direct reporting faster in a more fulsome way. And we don't need to repeat. We're going to get in your living rooms. Look, this coastal liberal elite is going to learn what real Americans look like. And I say that like both serious and kidding. Yeah. I think I do know a little bit more than most people would.

would assume. And we're going to learn about ourselves through this. There's a lot of work to be done. And a lot of people are asking, you know, like, what should I do? What do I do to protect myself? And the answer across the board, we, you know, we came to this conclusion, but as I'm seeing other people answer it too, it is,

going to your people, meeting, really living within your own community. We can't be living on what Donald Trump is doing every day. We need to be for you and yours and be there for each other. It's like a death. This is how I described it. When my brother passed away,

immediately we closed ranks on the family, right? The only people allowed in my house were my mom, my dad, my sister, me, and my aunt Tricia for some reason. I don't know. She's the only one. She's special. Her name is Tricia. Okay. We needed a Tricia in the house. And there were people on my lawn who were like, we want to come in more and we want to come in worse at two. And we were like,

No. And that's kind of how I feel right now. I'm like, no, I got to lock it down like a death, like anything else. I got to lock it down to just the immediate family. We have to take care of ourselves first. And then, you know, in a couple of weeks, we'll have a memorial. And then after that, we'll all kind of go on with how our life exists now.

without what we dreamed of, right? This is not a physical death, but I was telling Sammy, it is the death of a dream. There was a big dream we had here. And that dream has died for the moment. There'll be a new dream someday. But right now, it's not about long-term thinking for me. And I think

if I could give you anything, it's short-term decision-making. What is the next right thing to do? What's the next right thing after that? How do I reflect? How do I not be reactionary? Because we can't live in that kind of energy and we're not going to make the right choice if we don't take the time to be rocked by this and sit back with that pain and sort of go through our feelings and the stages of grief and all that kind of stuff. So that's where we're at now. Yeah. And I think that

We're going to analyze more of this today. But I think this feeling of the campaign that was very top-down, out of touch with this mass of people who, the people who were Googling, did Joe Biden drop out, and really making their decision based on the cost of eggs. I know people want to say, and we're going to get into the misogynoir of all of it,

All of that is real, but there are so many factors that go into how one person votes, let alone how communities vote. I mean, I think this is the part I find most interesting, that it is both a phenomenon of individual and mass psychology. And I think that what the Democrats failed to do is understand that because they have been taking a top-down, not-

We are not them approach. We are not the Republican Party approach for the past decade. And it worked in 2020 because Trump was the insider. He was the president. And even then, he didn't lose by that much.

You know, there were it was an unusual year. Mail, you know, mail in voting was really prevalent. And it was crazy. Right. And people had seen his response to COVID. So it was just a different situation. But this is right now we are in a very reactive country. And I find it really hard to not give in to those reactionary impulses. But I do think that that is what has driven this. Yeah.

To a large extent. Well, it's like that TikTok sound. You know that movie, I think it's from like The Devil Wears Prada, but I think of it as a TikTok sound when they're like, well, what if I don't want to be like you? And she turns around and is like, oh, please, everybody wants this. Everybody wants to be like us. That was the democratic strategy, right? It was this idea of like, well, what if I don't want to be like you? And it was like, oh, please, everybody wants to be like this. Oh.

And I think that's a hard lesson to learn, you know? So let's get into it. Yeah. And I think this next phase of discovery, both by necessity because of how Donald Trump will probably govern and because what are we listening to these consultants again? I think this is going to require all of us to look to our neighbors, the people close to us, and being with people we trust and building a bottom-up approach to what

what is this next phase of America? Make sure you tune in to the Working Families webinars because they've been saying this for the last 20 years, built from the bottom up. Here we are. So V, you were supposed to be in Paris this weekend. I was. This weekend now.

you know, you're stuck here. I know I was supposed to be in Paris. And I actually did a speaking gig this weekend that I had booked thinking that Kamala was going to win, which devolved from me doing my let's build resilience through our grief speech that I do into me being press secretary for an hour in a room full of 50 people who were just screaming at me the entire time. So I don't want to get too into the details of that because I think like,

We just are where we are, right? And people had a lot of questions and they thought I would have answers. The answer that I have, they don't like. This is also happening to me on TikTok when I'm trying to debunk misinformation. Like Starlink did not corrupt all of the voter machines. They are not connected to the internet. They don't even have Wi-Fi on them. People don't want to hear that.

So what I've sort of pivoted to here is like maybe being on the speaking tour and trying to like push forward isn't working because, again, we've experienced a death and me trying to debunk stuff or make people feel better is coming off like I'm saying to them, well, he's in a better place. Fine.

Fuck you. None of us are in a better goddamn place. We're not to that point in the grief yet. So I've pulled back. Now, I was supposed to be in Paris to do this thing for UNESCO, talk about digital journalism. And they very vaguely told me that we would be moving this event to after November 26th.

because of national security. November 26th is his sentencing date. I don't know why that's the day they selected. I don't know if it correlates, but it's after this, you know, all the psychics on TikTok think that November 15th something's going to happen. I don't know. Look, like I'm watching this and like,

Look, I'm watching all these psychics on TikTok and all these people who are saying there's definitely a hack. I woke up before I am. Yeah, I woke up before I am. Look, it's all very comforting and I'm watching it from that perspective. Like I'm watching this for comfort. I'm not watching this because I believe it and I'm not getting my hopes up about anything. And I am continuing to live in the world of information. When the government, when the DOJ or state

come out and say, we have found XYZ, I will engage with that. But I'm not a forensic scientist. I have no expertise on voting machines. And I do not want to turn into a person who knowingly or not knowingly might be spreading something that I'm unsure of their credibility. And I think

It's all very comforting, but we do need to be careful not to turn into QAnon and to reject reality. Again, this is all different if they come out and say there's this evidence or that evidence. Well, that's why I don't want to say anything yet.

Because I don't think – here's what I actually am willing to put my name on. I do not believe that there is widespread electronic voter fraud. I do think that there was widespread voter suppression and fuckery that abounded. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean all the bomb threats in Georgia? I believe people in –

Pennsylvania were being shown an iPad and telling them that they could vote on the iPad from the paid canvassers. I believe that. We know in Georgia that the ballots didn't get mailed out. We know that there was all these issues. I'm willing to wait for the results of the criminal investigations into voter suppression, but I am not willing to engage with our elections are not secure. Our elections are secure and there's a... Watch the TikTok on it because we only have 45 minutes left to do this episode. We got to get into it. Yes, there are some things that are...

There was a major Trump supporter whose facility was raided in Florida. Okay. So like he could have, that could have happened for, for the reasons you think, or it could have happened for any other reason. So I think just like we can't fall into this hole of certainty that they have fallen off

fallen into that leads them to believe like, you know, that the right wing has led them to believe wrong things with full certainty. There's one thing to entertain something in your head. And like, maybe this could be related to it, but let's wait and see. And that's the that's the thing we have to wait and see. Unless you're the government, then try very hard. You better tell us right now. And also, if your ballot was not counted, report that. Report that. Absolutely report that. That is real,

That's the phase we're in. We are in evidence collection phase. We are not in a let's make bold fact-based statements on the internet phase. So the thing I'm kind of hoping for right now rests on who he has decided to be his chief of staff. This actually gave me a moment that broke my fever sad, my sad fevers.

Donald Trump has decided that this woman, Susie Wiles, will be his chief of staff. Now, chief of staff is one of the most powerful positions in Washington, D.C., because there's the president who's the figurehead. But the chief of staff controls all the access to the president. Who else is in the administration? They're the boss boss of like all the personnel.

And they call this woman the ice queen, which I think is interesting because she's so stone cold. She didn't accept this position straight off. She's not a super MAGA Trumper, although she is obviously supports President Trump now and is going to work in his administration. But some of the conditions of her employment have been released now, and I think they're very interesting. And the number one thing she said is, I will not take this job.

Unless I have full control over who has access to you and who gets hired in this administration. And he was like, what? And she was like, I believe that quote was the clown car can't show up whenever you feel like it. No, Elon Musk is an advisor. Your children can't just be showing up here and getting in your head about stuff. We are going to run a serious administration or I'm not going to be here. And while I am scared, I am less scared now.

of a person like that who at least is trying to put some structure around, like, will the IRS function and can I get my tax refund? Are you going to allow Elon Musk or RFK Jr. into the cabinet? And it appears like based on her hiring, that is a no.

So I was like, OK, let's see that. Let's see that flesh out. Let's see that actually come to fruition because I know he lies all the time and I don't trust anything he says, but he needs her. And I think there is potentially some harm reduction that she will do when it comes to things like RFK Jr. maybe not being the head of the health department or Elon Musk not being the head of defense or whatever they were going to give him.

Look, I think having gone through the first Trump term and it always feeling like we were at level 100 with everything was just so bad. I am definitely much more in wait and see mode, similar to the like to how we're talking about, you know, going to your being with your people. I am definitely in wait and see mode this time because there is no point psychologically or emotionally.

politically in gaming out every little thing that's going to happen. And I think everyone who swirls around, is he going to hire RK? Blah, blah, blah. There's no influence on it. You're going to find out. We're all going to find out because if there's one thing that I feel confident

having watched this man, observed him for so long. He follows certain patterns, but because of the way people move around him, what ultimately happens is not always 100% predictable. Because in his first term, there was reporting that things just wouldn't happen because people would take a piece of paper off his desk that he didn't sign, like an executive order for some crazy idea, and he would forget about it. So I think that like,

Yeah, he very well might hire RFK or he very well might just change his mind because of the people around him. I think he's got this lady who's in there because her she worked. OK, so Susie Wiles, just go back to her. She's incredibly effective at getting a traditional conservative Republican into office. She worked on the Reagan campaign. She worked for Jack Kemp. Her father is Pat Summerall, the like iconic sports broadcaster.

This is not like some weirdo from nowhere. It's not Laura Loomer. It's not Laura Loomer. She's a 66-year-old woman. She runs this lobbying firm called Mercury, which has like 66 clients, brings in like $8 million a year from top firms that lobby policy and lawmakers on their behalf. From what I can tell so far, she is not a heritage bitch. She is not like from that side of the world. She is from like, I guess more like the Meghan McCain...

John McCain kind of like conservative world. She worked for DeSantis, but they did not particularly get along. She didn't vibe with him. So I think as much as I don't trust anybody, right? And I'm not saying you should. It gave me just a breath that somebody...

Here's why I had this thought of like, would a J.D. Vance presidency be easier for us? In many ways, I think yes, because J.D. Vance so desperately wants to be liked and he's deeply conservative and a Christian nationalist, but he is not a sadist and a weirdo and impulsive person.

And I think that's maybe what we'll get is just a little bit of a governor on the engine of Trump with Susie Wiles. Maybe she can hold back some of the most insane shit. What she will not be holding back is his immigration policy. This is the place where they are giving him the most free reign. And they have brought back Tom Holman, who was the previous director of ICE, who was responsible for the separating families at the border policies. He's off the rails, but that seems to be the thing that she's willing to sacrifice.

is immigrants in lieu of like her having control of everything else. It's like, yeah, sure. Do your mass deportations. That's what the signs were about, which is cruel and fucked up and weird. But,

But she's trying to like, I don't know, let that be the thing that makes the news every night while she does whatever else. Well, I think that unfortunately, Americans have shown that that's what they want. And I think that most Americans don't think about this like, oh, he's going to also start deporting legal immigrants. Or I don't think they realize that like...

just because you've been here for 30 years and you have a family here. Specifically, they said that that will not help you. They're getting rid of work visas, naturalization. They're doing a policy that would allow state and local officials to go into schools, hospitals, workhouses. I worked in restaurants the last time that Trump was president. We used to get raided where they would just come through and be looking for anybody. We called it the undercover brother program where we would just send people out the back door and

to be like, we don't know what they're going to do. Even if you're here illegally, there's not enough time to think about it. Yeah. When my wife was working for- Do you bring your passport to work? You don't. And they don't care, right? They'd rather take you in and then make you get a lawyer to sort of get out. When my wife was working at a school in Maryland, ICE knocked on the door of her music department and pulled a 14-year-old kid out of her classroom. He was in jail for three months while they raised the money to get a lawyer to get him out because-

They just like had his name on a list. He was 14. This is the kind of cruelty that we can expect from a Trump presidency. And I think eyes need to be on how do we protect and sort of fight this? ACLU is committed to fighting this because we if we're spending all our time on the conspiracy theories and all the bullshit and all the what ifs, we are not going to catch the fact that our friends and neighbors are going to be deported. And they're not just talking about Latinos. One hundred and seventy Ukrainian refugees whose names he has

the list of, are going back, according to him. This will be to anyone Putin wants, and this will be to anyone that he thinks makes him look strong on the border because his ignorant followers think that that's going to somehow improve their life. Yeah, my sense is that of all the...

things they have promised, this will be the thing that they push the most. And also when you think about it, that's kind of core dictator. It's about the other. It's about the other ring of people. And it doesn't just stop because someone is undocumented or crossed the border illegally. What I think that we're talking about is a shift in the dynamic. The day after the election,

Hundreds of Black Americans from all 15 different states all over the country started receiving texts that said, greetings, and then their name in many cases. You have been selected to report to a certain plantation group to pick cotton. Please report here. And I know someone who received one of these. He posted it on his Instagram story.

I mean, he actually wrote a really funny response. He was like, sorry, I only work from home. You know, because it's gallows humor. What are you going to do? Yeah. But like that still happened. That is still traumatic. Right. Sure. And the kids in school who got it. And then you're wondering, how did they know whose phone to send it to? Right. They were high school and college kids. How do they know the names next to the number? Yeah.

Look, you know, you have now you have state attorneys general, you have the FBI and the DOJ investigating this. They haven't said whether it was a foreign or domestic sender. They found that it was sent through this app called TextNow. And the company itself had said, confirmed that it was through their app and that they had suspended those accounts.

One, the Louisiana attorney general said that some of these text messages had traced to a VPN in Poland. So this could also be foreign interference. This is, you know, something I wonder about the whole thing.

Was the election stolen stuff? Is that also disinformation? Was that also started? Are there bots in those comments being like, I also didn't have my ballot counted because they want to force people down this rabbit hole? Oh, yeah. They want to incite violence. I don't know if they're going to get it from the left, but they want to incite maybe protests.

And they want the left to not trust the government either because they're not addressing this. Maybe they are addressing it and they found that it isn't real. But we are being convinced that it's real, which is literally what happened to them. We're not going to insurrect them. We're not going to insurrect. And honestly, like...

You know, a lot of it is to push this idea of rugged individualism, not trusting your friends and neighbors and turning on each other division. That all, you know, is that's Russia propaganda 101, Iranian propaganda 101. The West is not best. Fuck America. All that. Yeah. That's why we have to do the opposite.

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Visit betterhelp.com slash fever dream today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash fever dream. Can I tell you something that might give you a little bit of hope?

Yeah. Okay. So as I was just, we were talking about Susie Wiles and I was like, ooh, Mercury, the company that she works, she owns or whatever, her lobbying firm. One of her clients is Stand Up for Parkland, which like the children, the victims of census gun violence in Parkland, she lobbied for gun regulations. It's going to be very interesting to see what this lady does with the Trump administration, given some of her clients like-

Anyway, Susie, that gives me a little bit of hope. Wait, can I tell you what you're, can I tell you what I think that this speaks to? And I think that the Democrats should take advantage of. We need to stop with this right wing, left wing Democrat Republican language. We need to stop looking at people as right, left, blah, blah, blah, or, or liberal conservative. We don't need to look at people as anything. We need to speak about issues and

and this especially goes for elected officials, you know, representatives, people want their problem solved. They want pragmatism. They don't want bullshit. They want to feel like things are fair.

And they don't want to feel like they're getting the short end of the stick, which a lot of people feel like. Even I think like Americans, you know, the sending of money to Ukraine and Israel and Taiwan, I think people don't understand why that's important. Why that allows there to have not been a battle on U.S. soil since Pearl Harbor, I mean, I guess you could say. But that's

That I think people don't necessarily like appreciate. Like this rent, this foreign money is not just because we feel like being generous. That's what made the United States the most quote unquote powerful country. And also people were like, why did you have to call our fighting force lethal? It's because they don't listen to this podcast to know why that is a rhetorical, that is a rhetorical diplomatic term that is.

When you say it, that means that reduces your need to do it. Right. Right. This is the stuff that General Ryder tells me at the Pentagon. Right. Which is that like the good old days weren't always so good and the future doesn't look so bad. Saying that we have the most lethal fighting force in the world is a term of deterrence, not a term of ambition. And I'm like, well, it makes people sad, General. And he's like, OK, thank you so much. Please go talk to Jennifer Griffin about your feelings. I am just here to give the press report. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the way they talk because nobody's ever happy and nobody's especially ever happy online. Some other thing that I was interested in that I was like interference, I had to shut off my comments for the last several days because they were so riddled with bots that I couldn't handle it. And it was in sensing other people. And I couldn't tell the difference at some point between what was like MAGA people, what was bots, what was just like idiocracy stuff. But the thing I took away from that even was like MAGA wins.

where's your community? You treated this like a sports game. When you win the Super Bowl, you don't go to the bar of the losing team and spit in their face and be like, ha ha, loser. You thought you would win? You're a loser. And that's what people were doing. You do if you're an Eagles fan. I'm like, where's your community? You do if you're an Eagles fan. But I was like, where is your community? Why is this the way you spend your time? And then a lot of them were mad that the left wasn't thankful to them for voting to, quote, save this country because they think that they are so much smarter than

And they think that somehow, why can't we still be friends in all this? I was like, why can't we still be friends? Yes, there's definitely this attitude of like, why are you mad at me? Just because I voted with a majority. It's like, you're allowed to be mad at me. I don't care. Okay. You know what I think?

You never conceded the election last time. That's how fucking pissed you were last time. This time you win and you're mad that we cried for like an hour. You killed police officers over this. Yes. Sir, back the blue. Like, I don't understand. Okay. This is why I think the next phase could ultimately end up being in terms of like language because they're like, Oh, you guys can't say anything so politically correct. And I want to admit that I do think that that chilled the conversation and reduced the

It became an exclusionary wing of American culture. And they were, and you know, people keep talking about how, you know, Joe Rogan of the left was Joe Rogan, actually. And, you know, we kind of talked about this last week with Bernie Sanders, how he got destroyed when Joe Rogan endorsed him. It's like, okay, we need to stop thinking about that. And what I think they're going to overshoot with is like, you can't make me celebrate you.

And I think a similar tone is going to come when it is going to come around, especially because as like the younger generation gets older and you've got like the trans issues, people are just what I think people will adopt, which has kind of always been my personal attitude towards this. Who gives a shit what other people are doing? Stop monitoring people's genitals. Why do you care? And I really believe that the children, like I have a friend who was telling me that someone in her family, like at camp, they had babies.

trans kid of like they were in their new gender bunk. And the kids don't give a shit. They literally don't care. No one thinks about this. And I think that the fact that the tone on the left has been so exclusionary when the attitude itself is one that really does want inclusion.

Like you just kind of win back those people who are like, I don't care. And like, you drove me away because you made me feel like I was a bigot.

When I didn't understand. Well, the time that Kamala and Tim Walz were doing the best is when bullies were standing up to bullies, is when he was calling him weird, when she was giving him side eye. All those things made people, whether they like it or not, see strength in whatnot and see the idea of like, this is a person who's going to stand up against bullies. This is a person who's not going to allow them to talk to us stupid or say we're doing things we're not. And when they softened that up or when they tried to be diplomatic or when she got...

fucking helped me started campaigning with Liz Cheney and talking about how she would put a Republican in her cabinet. I do think that that was a flaw in the ways of like

We do not, as marginalized people, often see Republicans, even Liz Cheney, as safe people. And now you're inviting them to the cookout. And we're not totally sure. We liked it when you were calling them weird. We liked it when you were sticking up for us. You liked it when we had a place where we felt like our team was on defense and could win. And then you sort of started to invite these old folks in that we were like, well, we were harmed by them in the past. Why are they here now? Why are you prioritizing them now? Right. I mean, I see. I think that that's the kind of thing that

was a consultant-driven decision. Like, that's what you get by running her under the advisement of people who ran a very lovely press junket in the 90s. You know, it's very much like... Well, Joe Biden's whole thing was being the bipartisan guy and working across the aisle. That did not need to be her. I think there was a lot of leftover of what Biden would have said that maybe would have slapped. Well, I think what she was going... She was going for an anti-fascist coalition.

If we didn't get George Bush, if George Bush had come out and endorsed her, I still don't think it would have made a difference, but it would have been nice. No, and I don't think it was one or the other. I think if anything, the only thing

And this could have gone way wrong. So it's like you can't say go back. The only things that I think could have helped her was if they decided. And again, this is like what I the advice she got is that they made a decision. We are going to go full off the cuff extemporaneous. We're going to take on all of these new media outlets.

new media spaces. And we're not going to worry about getting clipped saying something dumb about going to Europe and the border. Like, we're just going to move past all that shit and

charge like a bull in the china shop that Donald Trump is or the horse in the hospital that we've now let loose again. I think that she was afraid to say anything too off the cuff. The speeches were very scripted and unchanging. She didn't do enough long conversations. Her interviews were too short. Like, I'm sorry, but you can't really do a whole...

a whole interview on the economy in 20 minutes. And I think that the fact that Donald Trump and JD Vance could go on all these podcasts and just let their shit air out.

people felt like they knew them and they understood them. And this is an environment that is not favorable to this elitist ruling class that seems like fringe, cosmopolitan, out-of-touch people who don't understand that actually people are voting on the economy and not because she's a Black woman. And while there are people who are and that can't be taken out of the judgment, there really are people who

Who are not doing it because of that. And to deny that is just unfair. Here's what I actually think it is. The right and these bro podcasts and the sort of capture of young men in this country is because these bro podcasts and the right has created a permission structure for you to be the most mediocre person

version of yourself, the worst version of yourself and be accepted and be told that you will have power in that. And that's a hell of a drug. That's a hell of a drug. Who wouldn't be attracted to an ideology that tells them that they are special and amazing and everyone is wrong about them and you can come here and be safe to be your shittiest self, embrace it. Of course you're going to be attracted to that. And on the other side, what are they met with? For the last 15 years, all I've heard is men are trash.

trash and white men need to shut up and this isn't your time to talk. And as much as part of that was true, perhaps that did make some people feel unincluded. And there needs to be a change in this. We cannot just, you know what I mean? Kara Swisher gets shit for this all the time for always trying to say we cannot just say all men are trash and that white men have no place in this world. And who would think it more than her? I know. Well, that's what I'm saying to lesbians. I'm like, look, I walk

both sides of the aisle. I'm with men when they're behind the scenes. And a lot of them are extremely insecure about their existence because they do love women and they do want to be included, but then they're constantly told like, oh, you're just here to pay the bills and to do whatever, and shut up and men are trash. They're like, that actually kind of burns. It's hard. So you're not going to get them to stick in. You're asking them to understand that

With being like, by saying like, understand, you must understand, but not actually taking the time to explain these things and talk through them. And I think that's actually why people like Joe Rogan became quote unquote, right coded, because they actually would hear those things out rather than just shutting them down. It never got better for them though. It never got better for them. There was no man who listened or who was good, who was rewarded. Right.

in whatever way. And so at some point, especially getting them young, especially getting them young, they never even tried. Right. And so that'll be the reckoning that we do on the other side. Well, what I think we have to say is that it's not just that on this side, the left, quote unquote, left, let's call it left coded media. It wasn't just that you had there were people who would say men are trash and then they could like say that and you could follow them if you believed men are trash.

That infected everyone who was like, you know, some men are trash, like who have a more nuanced take on that, that belief. And if you didn't feel, if you didn't like go so hard against all men,

You were not. You were a pick me. You were a pick me. Let's just call it what it was. Yes. You were a pick me and you should be canceled. And she's retro, retrograde and like all this shit. And it's like, why don't you just, why can't we just have a conversation? And someone said something, I don't remember where I heard it, but I thought it was such an amazing quote. It's like the side that is getting converts rather than excluding people, right?

rather than creating a purity test for whether you can be on that side, is the side that attracts people. And yes, of course, there's misogyny and people look at a black woman, especially one who they painted as a DEI candidate, and therefore the cause of all your problems and everything you're not getting. They capitalize on a dynamic on the quote unquote left.

that did hold true where it's like if you're a white woman you constantly have to be like well I'm a white woman so I don't know and it's like yeah I do have blind spots as a white woman yeah it's like you do have blind spots we all have blind spots

But this shutting down of conversation, the idea that anyone could see the world differently than you, that caused the other side to reject the facts when they were right in front of them because the left, quote unquote, had rejected them so many times.

And they were able to capitalize on this fear of white replacement, right, which is a right wing talking point that, again, is a hell of a drug and it's a sickness. But they were able to directly point to they pushed Joe Biden out.

She wasn't even on the ballot. Yes, she was. You're being replaced, but you're being replaced. And that, which that gave that power, you know what I mean? Like they just were very good at capitalizing on sort of like rallying people. Lizard brain thoughts. Lizard brain thoughts. And so that's part of it.

Look, it all tied very neatly ideologically in a way that if you take your brain and you're like, get rid of all my preconceived notions and try to be a different person. Oh, that is a very, very tidy story. And if you're only exposed to things that point in that direction, you're not going to be able to do that.

You're not. And then you see that your milk is $10. I don't want to call it economic anxiety. Call it the fact that we are having two separate conversations in this country about what the economy is. When people on the left, quote unquote, mainstream media and the campaign, we're talking about the economy. They're talking about macroeconomics, academic economics, the GDP, the rate of inflation, the rate of unemployment, and what direction those things are going.

The economy, according to you, to most people, is what is in their bank account. And how much can it buy them? And do they have job stability now? And are they able to put away something for savings? Do they feel flush? Do they feel like this is going to be a rough holiday season? And when the economists and the campaign are telling you, actually, this is going to be a rough holiday season.

This is the economy, but your economy is doing terribly. You don't believe them. You're like, they're actually just liars because I see my bank account and I see my employment situation. And telling people, no, actually you're doing fine was just crazy. Didn't listen. Yeah. And it made them seem more like the cosmopolitan elites who are doing fine because the stock market is up. The Democrats.

need to learn how to talk about that there are two different economies because there are. I think that the Democrats know that. I think part of the problem is that there are several different types of Democrats over here, right? And the old guard, the Nancy Pelosi of it all, and I have

Hated her my whole life. And I know a lot of people don't like that. If I have a feeling, a big feelings about Nancy Pelosi, but her even coming out and she threw fuck all everybody under the bus. She was like, well, I'm going to keep the house. And I told you, and we should have had an open primary and we should have done this and that. The other Nance, you're fucking like 90. You ran for reelection. Please go count deer off your back deck and leave us alone. You made enough money in the stock market past that goddamn baton because so much of what she thinks exists based on the way that it was.

And it's just not that way anymore. I think a lot of Democrats live in our world and live in the world of the new economy and the sort of like millennials politely waiting their turn for power and Gen Z feeling like they're never going to get a chance. So why even try? And yet we still have people at the top that are directing things like the way that Nancy Pelosi is. And she's still in opposition to Mitch McConnell. They've been in office together since 1984, and we have suffered on account of it.

That's still the issue. Yes, yes. When you look at the Republican Party, you see younger people. They are sick, bad people, a lot of them. But Josh Hawley's young. Ted Cruz is younger. The average age of Republicans is much younger. People look at Lauren Boebert and they go, I could be friends with her. I know that girl. They don't listen to the C-SPAN like we do and all that. They look at her. They're like, she's pretty. She's young. She's a mom. She's gone through some shit. I know that girl.

She gives hand jobs in theaters. She gives hand jobs in theaters. Okay, who on our side, they look at Jasmine Crockett and they say, I'm Jasmine Crockett. But when it came to the vote that we lost and it was white women who, I will say white women voted less for Trump this time than they did last time, right? We didn't create a space for,

It's like AOC, Jasmine Crockett, whatever. These women who are in traditional marriages, who have kids, who are doing whatever, looking at the Republican Party and going like, that looks like my friends and family. I'm going to go that way. They don't listen to their policies. They're not watching the mainstream media. These are people who decide to vote in the last month of the campaign, and they just vote for what looks like them.

or what they've been told or what their parents told them. And that's the way that it is. And on our side, it is very difficult. And I don't know how people still get excited about Bernie Sanders. People were losing their fucking minds. An 83 year old man won his Senate seat for the 30th year in a row. I'm like, it is the same thing that we complain about, but different because you like him because you think he's so progressive. If he was so progressive, he would have passed the baton.

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So whether you love a good club for the friends, snacks, or actual activity, we've got it all, especially the snacks. Because no get-together is complete without the perfect shareable treat. So stock up on those irresistible Nutella biscuits for you and your besties and follow along on the App Etches feed, wherever you get your podcasts, as we break it down chapter by chapter. That is exactly it. Like, people just look...

casually and they're like, yeah, that person's fighting for me. And I agree there was movement on white women, especially white college educated women. I think the campaign did not adequately double down on that. Yes, I think the campaign did not. And gay women. These are all the women. They're more than just to say white women, right? Because you can't say white women and not say 98% of Jews went for fucking Kamala. Those are white women. 88, 88.

But predominantly white women. I personally think they didn't adequately double down because it's if you want to give this message that will resonate with college educated people, then you have to pursue them as your coalition. And you have to get those women to convince their friends because I feel like someone like me probably had more people who could have been converted.

But that wasn't, you know, they only went on call her daddy. So it's like, what else are you going to point to? How many times can you like point to the same message that she sent a hundred times when you have him who's capitalizing on literally everything and every appearance and their husbands are going to look at this and they're like, oh, this guy has a point.

You know what I mean? They relied on the old standards. They really thought that having her on Oprah for that sit down was going to do what it would have done in the 90s. The craziest thing. They thought having Liz Cheney, right? Having celebrities, having all these different things. The celebrities just reinforced the elitism.

The celebrities just made it seem like, okay, well, you don't understand me. And also, it was too much. The celebrities should have been promoting on their own, not them paying for the celebrities to come and perform. That is so much more organic. Whatever. We can't pick apart every little thing.

And it turns out we're not over it and ready to move on team. No, I'm just frustrated by the Democratic Party and their refusal to move forward. Well, you know what? They're not going to until they pass the baton of power. And a lot of them, we're going to have to wait for them to literally die or leave office. You know what I think, V? I think that

The answer, something that I really care about, that I think will start to move the needle in a way that people understand is congressional stock is a congressional stock trading ban because there are way too many incentives for these people to stay on either side of the aisle. But this goes for Democrats, too.

Why are these people still in office? Why won't they retire? Because they are literally making so much money on their stock portfolios on the side. And they don't want to face their own mortality. And they don't believe in the younger generation. Yeah, I agree.

They'll be bored. Nancy Pelosi will be bored. How did we have Dianne Feinstein in the situation she was in all the way through? And one thing I'll say is like, lay off my girl, Sotomayor. Lay off her. Right. Leave her the fuck alone. She's 70. It's not her fault. Not too hard on my girl. The rest of them think they, if they're hard, they think they have 25 years left. Not too hard on my girl. Let's not pick another woman who has done incredible things for this country, who knows the ropes and

and try to replace her with somebody younger that doesn't know how to fight fascism and hasn't been on the bench with the experience she has. She's only 70 years old. She's a fucking rock star. Not too hard on my girl. Like she said, no, let's move on. Okay.

And I know they think, well, he's going to get two picks because Clarence Thomas and Alito are going to step down. Probably, probably. But you know what I'm not willing to do? Have her step down now and try to push something through with Biden that they're going to obstruct and he gets three picks. Also, there is no reason for her to retire. She is in good health. She's a smart and intelligent person. She's one of the few people that represent a marginalized community and point of view that we still have in there. Lay off Sotomayor. Just a classic example of them picking all the wrong fights. Yes. People...

Rachel Rachel Biddecoffer wrote something. I thought she tweeted something or blue sky. By the way, I'm on blue sky. Everyone go on blue sky. That's yeah. She said something like the Democrats will continue to lose unless they run a campaign for people who don't know there is a Supreme Court. And stop picking Sonia Sotomayor as your as your little thing. Pick something that will affect Americans and you pick Nancy Pelosi, you cowards.

Say, Nance, it's time to set down and stock training's got to quit. We're done with the corruption in the Democratic Party because those people are responsible for where we are now because they wouldn't get the fuck out because it was too much money. They play a different game than us, right? They're a

Like you just said, everybody's got a different economy. Their economy of these people who have been in office for 40 some years is very different than ours. Their point of view is different. They are not in touch with the average American. There is no cycling out. And they are so – they will hold on to power to a point –

To the detriment of all to be able to say that they're still needed. This is my problem with nonprofits. I'm on a rant with everybody. I'm fucking mad at everybody this week. My rant with nonprofits was like, step down, you cowards. Why are we giving you so much money? And then I see you on the red carpet of wicked when we just lost the fucking election and gay people and immigrants and chefs and everybody are in trouble. And I'm seeing people from all these different huge nonprofits on the red carpets like nothing happened. And I'm like, do the work. Where's the money for the work?

What are you doing? Are you willing to end? Like, I love the March of Dimes because they actually accomplished their mission. And then they picked a new mission because they had accomplished their mission, which was to eradicate polio, which they might have to get back on if RFK Jr. is the guy.

But they did it. They actually worked to eradicate polio, which was their mission. And then they said, you know what? We've got a great structure. Let's work on children born with birth defects and raise money for them and research for them. And then they started doing that stuff. I look at somebody like, and I'm going to call out the James Beard Foundation because I worked there, right? The restaurant world is about to have a fucking war.

We've done this before with the amount of people who work in our communities, not just in the restaurants, in the slaughterhouses, in the fields, in the farms that are going to be picked up, put in camps and sent back to countries that they may never have even been to before. Those are our people. And what are you doing? Traveling internationally to talk about what we should do about awards.

Get with it. We're supposed to be talking about American exceptionalism when it comes to the world food stage. Well, Americans are in trouble. Our people, our workers are in trouble. Get in there, James Beard Foundation. I don't need to see you on the red carpet of Wicked. I don't need to see you at a huge dinner in Chicago to talk about what the newest trends in gastronomy are. I need you to protect our workers.

What is your mission? They got an endowment of like fucking millions and millions of dollars. Where is that money going? And that's some of my problem right now. Those are the people that we need to go after. I think what you're talking about is...

an across-the-board attitude with different applications. Like, I'm fucking sick of it. I'm sick of it. Yeah. I'm sick of the election industry. Yes, the election industry. This cottage industry of consultants, of bullshit messaging, of bullshit social organizing. The media pundits. That doesn't do anything. The guy with the keys. What are we going to do with the keys guy? He's going to jump off a bridge. Genuinely, somebody have eyes on him. He was losing his mind that night. Look,

Again, he built a model for a different time where incumbency was a huge advantage and now it's not. So look, times they are changing. Get with it. You look at what happens and you have to pay attention. Okay. I just want to say two. I just want to say a few wins. Can we just run through some wins? Because we do have to jump onto a different podcast. Okay. All right. We're going to call these not Americants. Americans. These are Americans. Americans.

71 million people so far, we'll see how there's going to be more, did vote for a Black woman. They should have. And she raised a record-breaking amount of money. She raised a billion dollars. In small donations. In small donations. Yes, misogynoir is real. But to assume that all of our fellow Americans are these racist bigots is to ignore all of the people who did come out for her. And there were a lot of them. And I think that rather than saying,

Fuck everyone who didn't. We try to bring more people in and we try to look to each other and those who, those of us who did and try to convert people rather than exclude them. Yep. And we don't ever say that. And this isn't for black women that I'm giving. No, no, no. Of course. You know, it's for white ladies talking to other white ladies and stuff. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

But this is also to say we should never let the words pass our lips. A black woman will never be president now because that is just not fucking true. Agreed. They voted for Barack Hussein Obama on the heels of like the worst Islamophobia that this country has ever experienced. And 71 million Americans voted for her proudly wore Harris Walls merch everywhere. Like we can't do this again. Yes, I agree. We can do this again. I just think it's just such a short sighted thing to say.

Because the time and the person, you never know who's going to meet a moment. Seven states passed amendments to their constitution to protect abortion rights, including Missouri. Yeah.

North Carolina elected almost an entirely Democratic slate of state officials, and they got rid of the conservative supermajority in the legislature, meaning that their new governor, Josh Stein, can actually achieve something because they don't, you know, the Republicans no longer have an unbeatable supermajority. And

Angela also Brooks, a black woman, beat Larry Hogan in Maryland. He was kind of a quote unquote less extreme governor. Larry Hogan is beloved in Maryland. Okay. He had cancer when he was the governor there and everyone got really endeared to him because of that. Even if you weren't a Republican,

They were going to put him up for president at one time. Larry Hogan was on the presidential track because he could get both sides of the aisle to kind of agree with him. He was very anti-Trump. He did great with COVID. Like he was all these things. She smoked him. She smoked him. And so I think, you know, those are things to look at and say, like somebody who was really established, super supported, has bipartisan support, and they still went for Angela also Brooks. She had a better message.

And there will be two Black women in the Senate for the first time. Which we love. We love to see it. Lisa Blunt Rochester of Delaware and Angela Alsoprooks. We got the first trans woman elected. Yes. To represent. Delaware has one congressperson and it's a trans woman. That's who they voted in. Look, this is not to engage in identity politics. It is to say people. It's not about. We're still here.

We're still here. It's not about this first or that first. It's that Americans aren't uniformly hateful or uniformly prejudiced.

The situation, just because Donald Trump was elected, we don't know by how much more, does not mean that this country is hopeless. We're going to stick together. We're going to keep trying. But not to give like empty hope. No, Amara, I can. Amara, I can. We're going to try. Next week. Not yet. I'm still angry. I really thought this episode was going to be the one where we came back and I wasn't still pissed. But no, give us one more week. Next week, we'll switch to how to best prepare some of the more interesting stuff.

We're always going to be honest with you. And this is just where it went. I think it's where we still are. Well, we'll see you soon. Email us, AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com. Let us know how you're feeling. Just dump all your thoughts into that email. Trump a dump on us. We read them. We love to see it.

Also, let us know what kind of stuff you're curious about when it comes to America. What can we debunk for you? Like maybe there's something really interesting or you want to invite us or bunk or you want to invite us to come to your town to learn something cool that you have going on. It doesn't have to be political. It could just be something really cool and interesting. I mean –

Something I'm looking forward to now is all the different ways that small towns do their ball drop. Like there's so many different types of New Year's Eve ball drops. And I am just like, I'm looking for these little happy, like Americana moments. Like some people drop, like in Frederick, Maryland, where I used to live, they drop a key, which I think is so fun. There's like all these like really quirky American things that happen and we want to be a part of it. That would be a fun TikTok. It would. Looking for the helpers and the hopers. Yes. All right.

Until next time, I'm V Spear. I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream. Good night. American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzik. Social media by Candice Monega and Bridget Schwartz. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Betches News and follow me, Sammy Sage at Sammy and V at Under the Desk News. And of course, send us your emails to AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com.