Is Jill Biden Holding A Grudge? & What Is Populism?
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Rise and shine, Fever Dreamers. Look alive. I'm Bea Spear. And I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream, presented by Betches News. Where we explore the absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. And we are uniquely in the studio today. IRL.

We are so close. We could touch like the son of Adam. Not as close as this plant, though. Me and this plant are besties. Look, it's beautiful. I love to see it. We're here. We're here with our No Milk Please sign in order of RFA Junior. Yeah, we have to add raw onto that. Wait, did you see the clip of the woman who's like, this milk has been in my refrigerator for six weeks and it's perfectly fine and she pours it and it's like all chunky. Then she breaks out a power blender and is like,

See, it's fine. And then drank it. That's disgusting. Ew. That's not supposed to be. Was it raw milk? It was raw milk. I don't really get the appeal of raw milk. I think that it makes them feel edgy. Okay. You know what I mean? I'm like, go buy a motorcycle. You're going to get listeria. Buy a motorcycle. Get your eyebrow pierced. Do something else. Don't drink raw milk. Right, right, right. Yeah. I mean, I saw someone, I don't know if this is like how they're reasoning it, but I saw someone say like, oh, well, like babies drink raw milk.

But they drink raw human milk. Babies also can't drink water for the first six months of their lives. Babies are aliens. Let's not compare ourselves to infants. But also the milk that we're talking about is cow milk. What about you as a person goes, I need that shit straight from the teat? Something's weird about that. I'm telling you, everything about the Republicans is a kink. Everything is a kink. What about you as a person is like,

I know better than the centuries of science. I know better than the people who died. Some of you did not read The Jungle, and it shows. Some of you do not. Some of you don't even know what that is. No. Upton Sinclair. Yeah. Louis Pasteur did not go through what he went through to bring you pasteurization for you to be zipping raw milk. Like, it's so extravagant.

It takes so many extra. Why do you have this time in your day? What do you think Charles Darwin thinks of this? He's excited. He's excited to test out his theory. He's like, I am justified. He's like, he's going to test out his theory. He's like, let me cook. Let me cook. You know, so this, let me cook, unlike the milk. This is the perfect transition because today we are shit talking America's big transition. We are. We have a lot of shit to talk.

We are. So, you know, we've been talking about the show was very serious leading up to the election. And now we're like a little bit in the gallows humor period because we still have two months until the regime kicks in. Yeah. We're going to we're not going to scare you. We're going to prepare you. Yeah. And also, like, look, I think that we've all woken up to who our brethren are and what our brethren want.

And I think that we need to adjust. We need to readjust. Yeah, well, I made room in the closet because I'm going right the fuck back in. You watched me drop those them pronouns. I'm a scared person. You know, I'm like, look, I'm friends with Pat Lawler. You start stuffing your bra again. Yes, I'm bringing him back. We're bringing the cities back. Everything. My friend, Pat Lawler, I was like, Pat, you're going to have to marry me.

You're going to unmarry Natalie? No, we're going to stay married and then we're going to fake marry Pat. You know, we got to find a straight man in our life, lesbians out there, the bros that you've been hanging out with. When the handmaid's tale comes, you need to link up with a lavender marriage. Yeah, absolutely. Look, I'm just a Jew, white in some circles. So it depends who you think I am. I'll make room in the closet for you and Avi too, because we don't know who's

safe these days. Oh, no, no, no. Look, look, look. I've always thought I have plans to hide myself and others. I'm not going to say what they are in this podcast. No. But if anyone needs, contact me in a secure form, a secure manner. I mean, this is what it's crazy. And we're going to laugh about it because if we have to laugh or we'll cry. But like within the laughter inside in the joke is the inside information, right? Which is like

You really do need to think about, you know, what your passport looks like, what your government documents look like, where you're at in your journey. Like other of our friends recently got married and they're rushing to get his green card because even though our friend married a DACA kid, it's been really tricky. And now, you know, they're so panicked.

Yeah.

And we want to hear from you. We thank you so much for all of your emails. Your emails were amazing. We're going to try to read more of them on the show. Email us at AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com if you would like to contact us, if you have any questions, if you have any suggestions for what you'd like us to talk about. And we are, you know, we love hearing from you. Those emails give us great, great joy. We have gotten very comfortable in our digital and online spaces, right? We live whole full lives there.

You are going to have to get in person because a lot of the things that we're going to want to do to organize, to stay safe, to do things like build networks for people to access HRT, right? If that ends up getting banned or being difficult. And that won't affect just trans people. That will affect a lot of people. That kind of stuff is going to have to be organized in person. Things about people who are going to experience religious persecution. Those things are going to have to be organized in person. So sending us emails. Let's start talking. We might even do a little tour. We're working.

Thinking about it. You let us know if you want us to come to your town. This coastal elite wants to go see the real America. Look, I can get the college educated white women to vote Democrat all we want, but that's where it's not enough of us. I know. And I was in Missouri this past weekend. I had an incredible time. The gays of Missouri are elite.

They're the best. If I had to give an award for most interesting state in the country, Missouri would be it because I think it just has everything there. It does, yeah. It has it all. It also has the Kansas City Chiefs. We kicked your ass.

The bills are justified. I watched that game last night. I was losing my mind. Josh Allen was playing like a crazy person. I need to like care about the bills or something. Oh yeah, you gotta be on the bill chain. Join the bills market. It's a good fun time. Although even at the game, I couldn't relax because the guy sitting in front of my friends had on a jersey. It said MAGA 45 on it. I'm like, can you,

get a personality? What are we doing here? People are just trying to have fun at the game. And then you're like still making it like, right. Why do you have to bring that here? And especially for bills, shut up and dribble, shut up and dribble the bills. Just like, we're not like that, that it's Buffalo. It's a city of good neighbors. Everybody's welcome. Like everybody's at the tailgates having a good time. And you know that that's going to be just like a triggering, very political, very like unfriendly thing to do. Right. It's just like, why?

Let us know if you want us to come to your town. Yes. Let us know if you want us to come to your town in person, I think is going to be huge. And I think something that we people are noticing is that like the quote unquote resistance this time is not going to be marches. It's not going to be yelling online. It's not going to be black squares. That is not how you do this. That worked when we had elected officials at enough guardrails that were in a position where they could do something. They didn't, which is why we're now here. Right.

So I don't think that people should be putting themselves in danger to like put themselves out on a limb to quote unquote speak out. Like that's bullshit. That works when you didn't have the situation. When somebody's listening. Right, when someone's fucking listening. That works when somebody's listening. Sammy and I will not be going to the Women's March. If that is a place that you feel like you need to go to get community in, please be so careful. I wouldn't.

recommend going to the Women's March. I will say that straight up. I don't think you should go to the Women's March. It is a very dangerous... It was dangerous the first time, but we kind of had the numbers. It was not dangerous the first time. Gathering in groups is always kind of dangerous. That one was so peaceful and lovely. I think people are more emboldened to target large groups of people at events like this than they were before. Well, I just don't really understand what you're achieving. Yeah. Like, what are you showing them that you're mad? Nobody's listening. You're showing them that you're mad. They don't care that you're mad. No, we need to

We need to get back into our little groups. Like I love the ladies of Bucks County. Shout out to Kira, who does like crochet because you're mad and you need to put like your hands into something. And they like crochet and they meet and they talk like at the library about the stuff that they're doing, how they're going to handle their local immediate community. That's the kind of stuff that we're going to see a lot more this year. And I'm like honestly kind of excited for it. My Grammy's just a –

Skirts can only get so short before the maxi dress is back in. And we protested a certain way to the absolute mini micro skirt. And now it's time for us to get back into our smaller communities. That and then like also let's think about power here. Yeah. Because I don't and this is, I think, part of and we'll talk about this. We're going to talk about, you know, more about the Democrats and disarray today. Like we told you, this is a shit talking show. Yeah. I don't think that Democrats, maybe it's liberals. I don't know how to.

I don't know what phrase to call them by. Don't have a nose for power. They have a nose for making noise. They have a-

If anybody rises— Okay, well, if you get the power, you don't have to be nervous. That's the problem. That's the point of it. This whole idea of, like, perfect equality and not necessarily equity, where it's like if one person starts to rise above, then they're like, oh, wait, no, I can't. I'm not including enough people or whatever. Well, how'd that go? Not great. Look how we are. You didn't use your power, Nancy Pelosi. Because meanwhile, at the top, the establishment doesn't change. But it's not just the Democrats. It's also Mitch McConnell. Right.

Like they had a chance to prosecute this man. So many people had a chance even before he ran for president. Eric Garland, you bastard. That has been a really strong lesson that the Democrats were afraid of using their power. Like when Nancy Pelosi ripped up the State of the Union, like that was a lovely picture.

But what did you do? Where did we go from there? Right. Yeah. Yeah. He's like sort of a viral moments did not equate to like actual Mitch McConnell doesn't need to do things like that because he'll just fuck you. I'm pushing my person through and I'm not pushing your person through.

So where's the Democrats with that? I know. It's this idea of like, I used to hate this. I still hate it, mom. When she would be like, you have to be the bigger person. I don't want to be. I want to be the small, little, shitty person who gets their way. And this is the thing with the Democrats. It's always like, oh, let's be the bigger person. Let's show them what diplomacy looks like. Let's love them the way they want us to. We want to be loved. And I'm like, we got to quit that. We got to be the petty, shitty little person. Because this being the bigger person thing, it has not worked out for us.

Being the bigger person lost you democracy. Yeah. Bye. As someone who exists in the public eye, and especially as someone who shares their opinions and beliefs pretty openly, it definitely freaks me out to think that it's easier than ever to find personal information about people online. If the thought of having your personal information up for sale gives you the creeps, you need Delete.me. Delete.me is a subscription service that removes your personal info from hundreds of predatory brokers, helping keep your information private.

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Calling all book-loving Betches. We had such a great time at the Betches Book Club in New York City talking about the Midnight Club and sharing our favorite new treat, Nutella Biscuits. So it is only right that we keep the fun going for everyone. Together with Nutella Biscuits, we are bringing Betches Book Club to the podcast through a miniseries starting November 11th. We are so excited for you all to join and can't wait to make every chapter sweeter with the perfect club snack.

On the podcast, Aileen Jordana and I will be diving into the bestselling novel, Such a Bad Influence by Olivia Mentor over four special episodes. Such a Bad Influence is a modern mystery for all the social media sleuths out there. So if you're that friend in the group chat who can find out anything quicker than the FBI, we want you to read and snack along with us. Because what better way to discuss a book about a missing influencer than on a podcast?

So whether you love a good club for the friends, snacks, or actual activity, we've got it all, especially the snacks, because no get-together is complete without the perfect shareable treat. So stock up on those irresistible Nutella biscuits for you and your besties and follow along on the App Etches feed, wherever you get your podcasts, as we break it down chapter by chapter. Okay, so let's talk some weekend updates. This weekend, Donald Trump and his crew took a private plane to the UFC fight at Madison Square Garden. Pfft.

They hazed RFK Jr. by making him eat McDonald's on the plane. I took a photo of it. The lack of maturity in this trip is truly reflective of where we are as a nation, right? So you've got like some of the cool boys, right, that Trump has decided get to sit at the table, which is like his son. Not J.D. Vance. His son who is really, Don Jr.'s really like, you're lucky you're here. That's nepotism and it's fine. It's sitting at the table. Not J.D. Vance. Don Jr. has had it come up. RFK Jr.,

Eating a fucking McDonald's hamburger after his whole Make America Healthy thing. And a full sugar Coke. Full sugar Coke. That was like a dare. They were like, you're doing it, man. And then Elon, first buddy. And then you've got Mike Johnson over the corner there, fucking nerd. Yeah, he's like, I'm here.

His seat is like, right. He's only there. Are you allowed to be out this late, Mike Johnson? Are you allowed to be watching violence? I don't know. Like, see what the Covenant Eyes app says. But they're there. RFK Jr. was also caught this weekend. He was photographed buying zins. Look, I'm going to, I don't know. Maybe I'm going to start smoking again or something. Like, I just feel like we all have vices and things we need to lean on. I'm going to start rolling my own cigarettes like it's high school for fun. At least that's fun. Oh, it was so cool. But he's like packing a lipper. And I'm like,

Is it real or is that to trigger the list? No. Is it a little Easter egg for all the white boys that voted for him? All the military frat boys that that's in for them to see him. I almost was like, did we watch him put it in his mouth or was this? No, it was just it was like it was in his hand. But that's what I'm saying. I wonder if this is sort of like an Easter egg for the people who voted for him to continue their allegiance like he's one of us.

But I don't get it. Like, don't the women see and they're like, ew? You know, you do because you're straight. I gave this up a long time ago. See, you're straight, but Avi's such a cutie gentleman and so healthy and beautiful. It doesn't- He doesn't zen. But he vapes. He vapes hardcore. Yeah, but we love that for him. No, I don't mind that he vapes. He's so cute.

You have a very clean, nice, beautiful husband. A lot of women out there are making TikToks about how they care for their blue collar husband when there's skid marks, right? There's a lot of disgusting stuff that women in the world are putting up with. So I think when they see something like RFK Jr. buying Zins or whatever, it normalizes their husband's gross behavior. Okay. But RFK Jr. says that he doesn't do that. Well, they are also used to being lied to all the

Okay. They live a lie. They think gay people live a lie. You guys live a lie. So many of you live a lie thinking that the way that you're treated is normal or that the circumstance you're in is some marginalized person's fault that you've never met instead of the circumstances of like the oppressive government you voted for. And so I think that they see it and they're like, oh yeah, that's cool. They're like,

I don't know. I'm also – I've never been like, oh, I need – like, I love my wife. I've never been like, I need to get away from her the way that some straight couples can be like that. So I think we're dealing with different folks. Different strokes for different folks. Seeing them – seeing, like –

You never see Cheryl Hines with RFK Jr., right? Not anymore, though. Like, she's not on the plane with Trump. She's kind of trying to separate herself. No, she's not. She's just at, like, more official events. I guess so. But it's like, I think they're used to this gender divide and things being heavily gendered. That's for the boys. This is what women do. Right. Like, they go into football, golf.

Yeah, no, I think you're right. That is, I think, most people. Because then men are not responsible for the emotional needs of their partners because we'll go have a girl's day. Go get your nails done. Like, go have mommy wine night. Getting your nails done is annoying. Whatever. But it is what I would like to do today at some point. Let's do it. Look, I'm going to have to femme this look up.

You could grow out your hair. I could. No, I like it. First of all, I had really long hair and it used to be like half black and half white. I've had many looks. You could do that.

Do you have hoop earrings? I had multiple. You could add some earrings. Yeah, like my friend Mandy pierced my ears on the front seat of my car in high school. Okay, so do some earrings. All right, should we talk some shit about the Democrats? Yeah, shit talking and speculating. A new turn of events. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what we're doing here. So Democrats have some issues because as we are watching the Trump train pull into Penn Station to watch the UFC fight, we are watching the Democrats fight

I don't even see what... What is the party? I don't see where there's going to be a party anymore. What do these people think? Do they think they're just going to go back to their little crisis consulting firms and get all these contracts when this administration does what it is going to do? What do they think is happening here? Okay. I have had people say things to me that are insane. And they're like...

I know that Trump won and you're really scared, but this is going to be really good for you because you really know how to like talk to people and carry them through difficult times. And I'm like, shut up. So they're saying it's going to be good for your career. Yeah. I'm like, do you look at me? It's like maybe you like blonde white woman. Yeah. But I'm like, that's not.

the goal. Like you were fine during the Biden administration. I can't even find the words right now, but they're like, yeah, but you started under the desk during the Trump administration and like the way you did Afghanistan and COVID and da, da, da. And now there's going to be so many of those crisis moments to bring people through. And I'm like, you all are crazy if you think I'm going to do that one. And two, if you think that people have that kind of hope and optimism and place, we are, we are not in a space where like speaking kindly and softly to people is going to work.

Or like is even appropriate. I am not going to gaslight people into feeling like everything's okay or like somehow this is good for us. This is not good for any of us. Right. It's like, okay, oh, she had her rise during the second Trump term. Yeah. Wonderful. Okay.

Do you know any liberal writers who came up during the Nazi era? Do you know any? No, because they're going to put us in the camp. Dorothy Thompson, people who went to America. I think there is a delusion among parts of the establishment left that are like, this is going to be great for us because, yeah, we're going to be crisis communicators. How many more podcasts are the Poutsife boys are going to come out with? Or like even men saying, you know what? We need more men with microphones. We need to find the left's Joe Rogan. And I'm like,

Joe Rogan was the left. Joe Rogan. I'm like, you guys, we have to stop looking at every single thing as financial opportunity or a way to manipulate or overmanage, overhandle the public. Folks are pissed. They don't trust you. We're not happy with it. And the idea that me or anybody else is going to be able to financially benefit from the

This tragedy is one so weird and two, not true. Well, here's the thing. Let's say, let's say it does turn out to be true, irrelevant, irrelevant because we don't know, but it's not like that's going to come without any fear or danger or risk to yourself.

And you still have to, I don't think people understand what an emotional burden it is to be tuned into every situation, every headline, every terrible thing, every disgusting video, every personal anecdote of horror is like, that it is not an easy job. And people think, oh, so many followers, you have good partnerships, you get to go to these cool places. It

It is a scary job. And journalists and people who share information are at risk during a regime like the one they're suggesting. The thing that scares me, if you look at me in 2022, even there was a video from 2022 that went back around because it was when I talked about the ERA versus what I look like now.

these last several years have weathered me. And these were the Biden years. I look older than I did even two years ago. And some of that is the way that we dealt with stuff that was going on in the Middle East, this Trump stuff, like the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Like we've been through a lot of stuff and I've carried people through it. And it's not just...

like TV news where they come on, somebody else has written it for them, they're kind of delivering it to you, and then they click off and go to their million-dollar mansion. I'm in my house, okay? I'm done the whole thing. Doing the whole production. And it's scary. And the thing that haunts me right now is there's a graphic going around about who was most influential during the administration, and it's the one with the blue and red bubbles. And guess who has the biggest fucking blue bubble? Me. Me.

prior to the election was very cool. My name is on lists and in rooms and in the mouths of people that scare the shit out of me. And I don't want any part of that. So it's like, I have to work on how I'm going to protect me and my family and my community, right?

We have immigrants that have married into my family. We are gay. We have children in my family. We have a lot of shit that I am my family's V as much as I am the universe's V. Yeah, more. And like, so to be that big blue bubble, when that graphic goes around every single time, it scares me and brings hate my way. In addition to that, it's like...

In my DMs, which I answer all of my own DMs because I think that that's important. I don't know how you do that. I know, but I just, it's how I am. You're good. I wish I could do it. In there, I've got people's parents saying like, how am I going to protect my child from this? I told them it was okay to be their full self and now I have to tell them that it's not. Like I'm dealing with a lot of the emotional labor of people in my DMs, literally Sammy, telling me that they are thinking about ending their life because they can't imagine going through with this.

that's the kind of shit I'm going to be doing and dealing with. Not trying to like be a pundit on TV to like soft talk people through a regime. That's not going to work. And to like parlay this into your own success. There is no success for queer people right now. There is only survival. Survival, right. I think that people are not getting it. Like, I think that people are not getting that this is not just the start of the Romney administration or the W. Bush administration or even Trump 1.0.

Because one person who I think did the right thing is Ann Selzer, who says she is done with politics. I think that that's good. I think that's very responsible of her. I agree. But then you have the people who people who were involved in the Biden campaign and the Biden then Harris campaign.

And they are not expressing any interest in leaving this space. They think that this is going to be good for them. This is what we saw most immediately. And this is what I hate about the idea of the establishment, right? And I've gotten a lot of pushback for the way I feel about Nancy Pelosi. But, you know, it's not about what she did. It's about what she does now. And what she immediately did was try to say, like, she came out after Kamala lost and one said, I'm running again, which is insane.

And two, was like, it's the fault of like all these other people. What I explained it as is like, they never actually passed the baton to us. They never really gave Kamala the baton. The entire first day of the DNC was a goodbye heroes tour for Joe Biden. She continued to be held back with the anchor on her ass of Biden's decisions, where she had to constantly say things like, well, I don't think I would have done anything different.

Or all this gentlemanly like, you know, oh, praise to what had come before. Everything was about what a sacrifice it was for Biden and not what an accomplishment it was of hers. She never was able to separate herself from him. And now they're like, see, we gave you the baton of power and you lost, you loser. So now we're going to have to take it back and we're going to have to whatever. And I'm like, no, you never gave us the baton. You let us touch it.

But holds it with you. And then you snatched it back. And then you were like, see, you're not ready for power yet. And it's like, no. You're not in power anymore. There is no more. So Nancy Pelosi's running again. Where's that calculator now? Where's that calculator now that said we were going to have the House and everything else? I think also as there's more reporting on the Harris campaign...

and how that actually went down. What I'm seeing is that they tried to layer Biden's campaign onto whatever she wanted. And because she, look, they only had 100 days. They ran a baller campaign for 100 days, for sure. Right, right. I will say that what ultimately came out of that campaign was incredibly structured. And because it was so disciplined, ultimately,

the, I would say, like, I don't think the lack of discipline was the problem. I think it was the message they chose to stay disciplined on. But she ran a tight ship for those 100 days. But the whole time, what I think, and from my own experience, and I think we can even talk about this, is like, nothing ever got to the top. No ideas ever got to the top. You know, we saw, I don't know if I said this to you, but

A few nights ago on Nightcap, they were – on 11th Hour, they were talking about how Trump did like 30 million impressions worth of podcasts and she did five million. And it's like the ideas never got to the people at the top who would have been like, OK, she can go sit down for more. Everyone's like, should she have done Joe Rogan? It's like it's not whether she should have done Joe Rogan in that final week.

It's whether she should have done Joe Rogan the second week of the campaign when it would have been a friendly venue where she would have had a chance to define herself because he is a nice interviewer and he wouldn't have like had all those, you know, he wouldn't have had all those points from the campaign about like immigration and, you know. He could have taken what she said. And then when Trump came on and said crazy stuff, be like, well, she was here. She didn't say that. Exactly. He would have been a good advocate because he not that he's anybody's.

But he's his own person. He's so rich in his own person. And he was laughing at Trump during his interview with him. I think he would have given her no less of a fair shake. No. Especially if she went on in the beginning. And it was just like this unwillingness to put her out there and let her speak. And you saw her. You saw her the first week where she was so much more confident and she'd say things and be- I'm speaking all that. And really be out there. And then-

By the end, it was like she wouldn't say anything. For folks listening, I think President Biden was an incredible president who will be remembered by history better than he was while this was going on. I don't think anymore. I think he did great things.

Not anymore, maybe, but he'll be able to hang his legacy on things like inflation reduction. I'm not taking away all of that stuff. No, that's all going to be irrelevant at this point. Well, my feeling. What I noticed about this being with him and then being with her was how much Joe Biden was still in the Kamala campaign. The ghost of Joe Biden was everywhere. If it wasn't the aviators they handed out to influencers, then it was the ice cream trucks at her events. There were little reminders that Joe Biden was still here, right?

that I think maybe subconsciously or otherwise showed me that they didn't make a complete flip and it wasn't all her people in charge. The way she had to go to Delaware to ask Jen O'Malley Dillon, would she please continue on the campaign? That was Biden's campaign manager. Well, Biden asked her to take care of his people, Jen O'Malley Dillon. Jen O'Malley Dillon is, I think, one of the

one of the people most at fault for this because... Well, she has to be. That's not even a character judgment. She was the campaign manager. There are going to be certain people who have to take the blame for it. I mean, I have no judgment on her character, but their strategy was wrong. And I don't even know who were Kamala's people.

I don't know that she got them all in there in the same way. I think you could tell certain times when the culture was there and when it felt authentic versus when it felt like our dad walked in the room. You know what I mean? Like there was a lot of times even throughout the DNC, throughout different interactions I had, they were also super rule followers in a way – in a world that was lawless, right?

Trump never worried about if his PACs was talking to his campaign or if this influencer was involved in that. Giving away a million dollars. Giving away a million dollars. Meanwhile, they were so strict about the fact that because during the DNC, Way to Win paid for a sweep that I conducted interviews in.

I could never talk to anyone on the campaign, which is why you never saw Kamala Harris on Under the Desk News, Tim Walz on Under the Desk News. They had a fit that I was in a picture with Tim Walz one time and told me that I wasn't allowed to speak because that would have somehow broke the fact that I had done the suite for the PAC versus the campaign. So they were doing everything by rules that Trump was never playing by, which gave him massive advantage. Well, when we were trying to get an interview with the campaign—

And we were telling them, you know, here are the types of digital packages we could do. There was always a question of like...

is V working with Way2Win? Yeah. And I was like, it's not the same thing. Like there's a whole – V is like one part of Betches, a talent – like someone who was contracted as talent for Betches. Like that doesn't make any sense. There was just this resistance towards doing anything. And even – like I remember we were speaking to people who were part of the digital world. And it just –

They never did anything. Everything was so heavily controlled. You get 10 minutes with Tim Walls. And Tim Walls is like, when Brian and I went to interview him, it's like he was so natural and off the cuff. But it's like when the camera was on, it's like as if none of that was real. They did one interview with Carlos Eduardo Espina, who I think is the most powerful Hispanic influencer in the entire world. He would have been.

Right. He was the only person. They did one thing with him quick and then it was like, no, we can't anymore because Carlos is part of Palette. Palette was running some talent, most of the talent for the DNC. It was like they were so uptight about all these rules that they lost a ton of opportunity that Trump never cared or worried about. It wasn't even just the rules because when – And big.

everything was like, it's Beyonce. It's call her daddy. And then when they did an influencer thing, it was like a little trend, which was fine, but that wasn't going to necessarily move the needle. I don't, I think they don't, they failed to grasp is that sometimes micro influencers or even macro influencers, like I would consider you a macro influencer, but you're, you function more like a micro influencer. Like you're not like Emma Chamberlain.

who is another macro influencer, where it's like way more controlled. Yeah, I'm like a regular guy. Right, like they thought, oh, we can do this like the old school way where it's like super distant, super controlled. So many celebrities. But Alex Cooper has a private plane and there was nothing for it to be like, oh, these are just like sort of normies, quote unquote, that you could speak to. And then even when they would speak to them,

Even Stephanie Ruhle was like, I had 15 minutes with her. I got to 25 and they treated it like it was a crisis. And the Stephanie Ruhle interview was the best one she did. Right. And it's like, how are you supposed to talk through the economy in 15 minutes? Why wouldn't they let her just talk? I

I don't get it. They needed to let her talk. They were used to bubble wrapping her, probably because they were busy bubble wrapping Joe Biden because they were afraid he was going to like trip over a literal sandbag. Well. Which he did. Here is, now we're going to get into the deep shit talking and speculating. Okay, here we go. We've said this before. In all of my reflecting, bitching, delusional reasoning with why things happened or didn't happen.

Do you think that Under the Desk got a little bit punished and maybe Betches got a little bit punished because we were the first to do the case for Kamala?

I came out for Kamala very hard. Joe Biden and the Bidens hold grudges. We know this. We know that this is an issue. We knew that there was a lot of conflict between Kamala and Joe, people within the establishment not really wanting it to be Kamala. We know Nancy Pelosi wanted an open primary. We knew that Joe wasn't supposed to run for the second term. He wasn't. We

We knew in 2023 that maybe that wasn't going to be the best thing. He was deciding that he was. There was a lot of people in Jill Biden's office that were extremely like loyalist, mean, did not particularly care for Kamala. And in my most delusional and I'm admitting and being vulnerable in my most delusional, why did it happen this way? Why was it so hard for me when it was never hard for me to get interviews at the White House or anything when it was Biden?

And was it that I came out so hard for Kamala so quickly and was sort of on that beginning side of like Biden should step down. And the thing we need him to do most right now is be the president. And I don't know if that was a thing. Maybe. I don't want to say no. I made Instagram posts of me in pictures with her being like, I don't care if Joe Biden's the president because I was always voting for Kamala. Yeah.

And the only reason I'm saying this is because we are now realizing that the Bidens do have a sort of long history of uncomfortability with Kamala that goes back to the first time that they were running for office, the 2019 election, that debate when she questioned him about his refusal to bus students to schools to help integrate students.

And she said how she was a victim of the fact that Joe Biden pushed for not busing students into grading schools. Jill thought that Kamala was calling him racist on the stage, was absolutely furious, and never really got over it. Even to the point, and you're like, well, but he picked her to be the vice president. The tea there is Joe Biden had promised on the campaign trail that he would make his vice president a black woman. And who

Who else was it going to be? I mean, it could have been Stacey Abrams, but not over Kamala Harris, right? She was the more dynamic pick. Well, Jill should get over it because he needed to make that promise so that Jim Clyburn would support him. He wouldn't have been the president if he didn't make that promise. And Kamala, you know, they ended up, they did work really well together. But I think that that, you know, that history played a problem in it. Okay, I think you're not wrong. Here's what I'll say. I do think that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden like each other and respect each other. I think they grew to love each other.

Absolutely. I do. I agree with that. And I think they share a certain old schoolness that made it impossible for her to throw him under the bus and that made it impossible for him to separate. But I don't think that affects Jill Biden. I,

Honestly, if we even go back to when people were pushing Joe to drop out, that Sally Quinn piece in The Washington Post saying about how you need to protect your husband the way she had to protect Ben Bradley when he started to fall into decline, I think made a bigger impact on Jill Biden standing down than almost anything else because it was a peer situation and it was a direct call out.

Well, let's talk about why we're bringing this up. Because last week at the Veterans Day ceremony at Arlington Ceremony, you saw this very awkward video. We can't play a clip of it because it's silent. Yeah. Where you just see Jill dead ahead. Like, you've never seen people...

Sitting next to each other, snubbing each other so hard. What do you think? Do you think Jill thinks like, well, this is all your fault? She definitely does. Well, that's crazy. She definitely thinks that Biden would have won. He was pushed out. The Bidens are always counted out. And now she lost. Always counted out except when you were the president. Look what you did, you little jerk. But for her to be boom, even when Vice President Harris is coming to sit down, what's going

One is crazy. Her wearing red to the on election day to vote. She wore a full red suit. You know what you're doing. You've been in politics long enough. I think that was very unusual. There's a little bit of like Jill Biden, you know, maybe being a little. Yeah, look, maybe she's a little bit. What's her name? House of Cards. Well, and for folks who are getting mad now, because I can feel some of you feel people getting people.

How do you feel that this doesn't even come out? I know our people. I know our people and they're like, I'm sick of people shitting on the Democrats and speculating about who's what. We're not. No, no. This is the thing. If you are the party of character, if you are the party of – Then we need to – Then you actually have to do it. You can't hoard the presidency for yourself when you literally look at – when you look the way you look at a debate. It's not like people just pushed him out to push him out. Look, I believe that maybe – Look at him now. I mean, he's very –

Frail. He would not have made it. But I want to just make this one point. I'm not fully just projecting on Jill Biden that she doesn't like Kamala Harris. I have a proof point for you. Just to remind you, at the debate in 2019, after Kamala Harris had questioned Joe Biden on his stance for not –

desegregating schools in an interview on the record. She said what he cares about, what he fights for, he's committed to. And then you get up there and you call him racist without bias. Go fuck yourself. Her press secretary, Michael LaRosa, did not dispute that the first lady had said this and then also said the first lady and her team do not plan to comment any further on the retellings of the 2020 campaign. So she has said in the past Kamala Harris can go fuck herself.

Well, okay. I've said a lot of people can go fuck themselves. But I'm just saying this is not unprecedented. There's a little bit of like a moment here. I don't know if we want to put this in, but what about the thing that we've heard, the snub at the inauguration? The other tea was, yeah, when Joe Biden finally got to be president, Jill thought that she and Kamala maybe were more equals. And Kamala was a little bit like, I'm the vice president. Like-

You and Doug are maybe going to work together on stuff, but it's not girl kiki fun time. I'm the vice president. Meaning like I'm here for work. You're here for marriage. And she she apparently thought that that was very condescending and didn't appreciate. Maybe they just don't really vibe. But here's the thing.

You are the president and the first lady. It is your job to put aside the petty shit for the good of the nation. Isn't that what your whole thing is, that you guys are like, you guys sacrifice for America? Well, I'm sick of them being so good on some things and not on others. Like, pardon Hunter. Okay, let's just like- Right.

Like, get rid of all of our heirs here. Pardon Hunter. You don't like Kamala. You don't like her. But don't be rude to her when she sits down. This woman has sacrificed greatly for her country and has put on a brave ass face. Right. And like, you're supposed to be on the same team. I don't really care if you don't like each other. Well, and Jill tried to get Kamala to not join the Biden ticket in 2020. This is also like open information. Yeah. She said that she really couldn't get over the bus thing. But Biden had boxed himself into a corner by saying he would pick a black woman for his running mate. Joe wanted Gretchen Whitmer.

which was interesting to me. Gretchen Whitmer actually made several trips to have private conversations with Biden before he announced Kamala. And it was Gretchen Whitmer that for the first time said, I'm not, I think you should go with Kamala. And who also, when Nancy Pelosi was pushing for Gretchen Whitmer in the open primary, remember Gretchen came out and she made a TikTok because it's sort of like, once I do it publicly, you can't bully me behind the scenes. And she was like,

I am not running. Stop asking me. I'm supporting Kamala Harris. Gretchen Whitmer, she's for the girls. The more someone doesn't want to do it, I'm like, that means you should do it. She's for the girls. Because you're not seeking the power, unless they're full of shit. And then people are like, well, Jill's racist, and I don't think that we should just, like, blatantly be saying shit like that. We're not doing this. We're not doing that. We're not doing labeling people as racist. What does it fucking help? No, it didn't work out. It didn't work out. That strategy didn't work. The thing they point to is that when...

No.

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I wanted to just say that part about Jill Biden so that we said it and we could be like, that's not enough for me to like call somebody racist. No, I don't think she, look, he has. He's had gaffes. Look, here's the thing. He was in the Senate. He was in the Senate in the, in the eighties. Like, you know, not that it was like, okay. But he does remember his, his civil rights rights.

work a little bit more fondly than perhaps it was. Like he praised Strom Thurmond. That was a whole thing. He did. He did the eulogy for Robert Byrd, who was a KKK. Grand wizard? Yeah. Robert Byrd was the West Virginia senator who actually revived the KKK by recruiting 152 of his friends to start a chapter in the late 40s. So still, but these people are old. And

And then later, before his death, would denounce the KKK. But was pretty...

pretty racist and was pretty friends with Joe Biden. And when Joe Biden was president or vice president, Robert Byrd, the Senator died. Uh, well, Obama did not do the eulogy, but Joe Biden came and gave this incredibly warm eulogy for him. And yes, he did denounce the KKK, you know, later in his life, but like my brother in Christ, that, that was a lot. So a lot of people, a lot of people were like, I don't like, I don't think that that's going to fly. Um,

Why did this come up more during 2020? I don't know. I think because like, what are we going to compare Joe Biden's like racism light to Donald Trump's absolute racism? Oh no, I mean in the primary. Yeah. So I think it did come up a couple times, but there, so there's been things that Biden said, Latinos don't get vaccinated because they're afraid of being deported. He said, blacks get vaccinated because they're used to being experimented on because of the Tuskegee experiment. And,

Biden says crazy shit. He called the supporters garbage and then they argued about an apostrophe. I know. So like, but the thing is like, again, we know everything about our own and we're willing to hold them accountable to it. And the other side just makes excuse after excuse after excuse. No, this isn't cool. It's not cool. But the problem is like.

The way I see it is like, yeah, I do see why maybe Biden, maybe what Biden wouldn't have said is that I don't think the country will vote for a black woman. Maybe that's why he wouldn't get out. And he's not going to say that because he picked her. He didn't really campaign for her, which was important. But that's okay. No, I think when he did, it was a big mistake. I don't think the Clintons should have been out there. I don't think there was a lot of things. I don't think the Liz Cheney stuff worked. And we've already done the autopsy on what worked or didn't work. Liz Cheney could have gone to jail.

This is what I don't understand. Why did Kamala have to appear with all of these elite individuals? Why didn't they invite us to the thing that we thought was going to be like George W. Bush endorsing Kamala and then it was Liz Cheney? We didn't go because it was like a two days notice, but I would have freaked out. There were so many things like that where they're like, oh, do you want to come to this event? There's going to be a huge endorsement. We don't need to be a home for failed Republicans anymore.

Like, I don't need, yeah. Also, why do you need, why do you want us to come in person and film something that you're not even going to give us any sort of exclusive? We thought, me and Sammy thought we were getting invited to George W. Bush and Dorsen Kamala, and then it was the day that Liz Cheney did. We didn't go. Also, like, I can watch this on TV and get better clips of it if you're not going to let me speak to anyone specific who is there and ask them questions and do an interview with them. And that was the thing. Why don't I just watch it on TV? They weren't going to give it because, again, and we're back to...

What was the deal? I don't know that we'll ever know why they chose the influencers that they did. They had all these influencer hype houses, which I think were really great. I think we actually need to do more of that. I don't think it's a sign of the campaign failing that the influencers failed them. The influencers did not fail them. I started doing a series called like Kamala Policies for Niche Communities. And those would do million views, two million views. And it would be like, how Kamala's policies will affect military spouses, but they wouldn't let me have access to her.

Why wouldn't you let me have access to her for her to go, yeah, because I think about that shit. Because no one. She needed to do more niche community stuff. Because no one got access to her, right? I think it was like, okay, everyone's like, well, there's no more local journalism. So she's not going to do local journalism. What they didn't get was that that is now what you're talking about. That is now TikTok niches where it's like you don't need someone who's going to – you don't need a Joe Rogan-sized person to have a Joe Rogan-level impact because

They lied.

So much. They lied so much. And she's pro-Israel to the Muslims. And it's like they purposely, successfully micro-targeted those messages accurately. You can read about this in The Washington Post. And for what she did was like say the same thing on like Oprah, which – yeah. And they spent so much money. They spent so much money. I could have come there. We could have gone there for free. All we needed was money.

10 to 15 minutes, even we would have wanted more. But 30 minutes could have set the whole thing up, done it for free, done it with these microphones. Like there would have cost them nothing. And instead they set up- And she didn't have time, put us on the plane. I have the highest security clearance of any influencer around, baby. I've got that DOD clearance, put us on the plane. Literally like-

and what they failed to comprehend is that like all of this doesn't have to cost what it did. You didn't need to bring Beyonce or, you know, I think Beyonce was the right choice. It was fun, but she should have sang. We didn't need her thoughts. They didn't need to bring Katy Perry and all these people. Oh, the Katy Perry curse. Those people should just talk about

her on their own platforms instead of being like, here are all the elites and rich people we can bring to show you how out of touch we are. The Katy Perry curse of it all. It just is really such a sad situation. A couple good things that came out of it, though. I do think that we recognize that new media is important and will be more important even in the next election. I think we're watching traditional media try to be new media. I mean,

Go count deer off your back deck. Like I tell Nancy Pelosi, please retire, count deer off your back deck. And when we need you, we want to come over. This is what I want from the establishment, older folks. I want them to be like myself.

my grandma, right? She's wise. She's beautiful. She cares about me. She watches me fail, and then she makes me a cookie. I want to be able to be like, grandma, I know I don't visit enough, but can I come over today? I really have a lot of questions. Have a little tea. Get the information for her. Let her relax, and then let me go out in the world and try to do my thing, okay? I need Nancy Pelosi to be the guru on the hill that when we need her, we're

We go and we visit her and we say, hey, can you help us out with that? We need a mentor. We don't need somebody to look over our shoulder. It's different. They need to transition. We need help getting to be what they were. But you have to be a safety net, not an anchor. Okay? Like, that's what I need. And also...

Show the people who trust you that there are new people they can trust. It's not like you're the last person on earth with trustworthy information. I mean, every MLM will teach you where is your down funnel. Guys, the Democrats have not built their downline because, you know, it's. And then you look at like all this great talent that is part of trad media. Jen Psaki, for example. And it's like she is so iconic.

So iconic. And it's like, why are we, why don't those people, why are those people being exposed to 60 year olds? Why isn't Jen Psaki making content for 40 year olds and 30 year olds and 20 year olds? I think she's doing so good with her TikTok. We got to tell her this. She is. But she's doing that on her own. You can tell that that is not something that she's getting like her big support for because she's doing just straight to camera. Hey, please like, you know. Right. But also like she's just talking. No one's watching her show. Right. Except me.

And it's like that all needs to be put in a different place with younger people promoting it in a format that is easier for people to consume. People count on me to be smart, but I am dumb about certain things. I don't think so. Well, I think we should do a segment that's like dumb questions because sometimes I have questions about stuff that are things that I should know and I'm like too embarrassed to ask, but like I need to know them and I can't figure it out. And my first question to you is,

What is populism? Because I feel like they describe both the Democrats and the Republicans as populist. And I'm like, is it good or bad? Is it what is it? Everyone's actually everyone's using the word populism. And I don't think a lot of people who I don't think they know what it means.

Okay. So I think what you're saying about how is it Democrats, is it Republicans? Yeah. That is actually part and parcel of the definition. And that is why it is confusing because it's not necessarily aligned with Democrats, Republicans, liberal or conservative the way you would normally think. What it really is, is more of a posture towards it.

and towards politics. And what it really is and why it could kind of be on any right or left part of the spectrum is that what it really is is about

a people-centric ideology that is focused on vilifying elites. So you could vilify democratic, liberal, academic elites and like, where are the people? Where are the working class? That's kind of the vibe you have right now. That's the Trump vibe. Like all these like liberal elites and their science and their, you know, that know nothing kind of vibe. That was like kind of one of the original populist movements in America. Yeah.

It basically kind of weaponizes immorality against the elites, no matter what they're doing, no matter who they are. So it's more of like a way of campaigning and a way of expressing an ideology than it is an actual ideology. Okay. You know, it's like— I'm looking up famous populists. Williams Jennings Bryant is the— Ross Perot?

Andrew Jackson? Like, I would say William Jennings Bryan is like the epitome of a populist. He lost all three of his elections, though. Right. Bernie Sanders is a populist. Kind of? I would say he...

Because it's a tone and not necessarily an ideology. It's the people versus the elite. And Bernie Sanders says like, he's the people versus corporations. You know, like Bernie Sanders is like anti-big corporation populism. Then you have the right wing, which is like anti-elites and academics. Like these coastal academics don't understand you. They are morally bankrupt. They're corrupt. Right.

It's like turning the people against the corrupt elites. So it's more of a tone than it is an actual – like there's no policies that are attached to it because it can actually take on a lot of tones. It could be advocating for socialism or it could be advocating for capitalism. They keep saying populist and I'm like, okay, everybody can't be a populist, but I see what you mean. Like because in America we don't currently have like an idea of who the people are versus the elites.

Even when they say the Democrats lost workers, I'm like, I'm not totally sure that that's completely true either. Well, the idea of like workers, like why are we fucking talking about these people like they're aliens? We lost the Martians. Like, you know what I mean? We all work. Everybody working two jobs in America right now. We're all the workers. Right, right. It's like this idea, like this is an important piece that the term as it's used has sort of been mistranslated and stretched out.

to mean more than necessarily what the original textbook definition was. One way of thinking about it is that it is an antonym for aristocratic, which I think is a good way of thinking about it. But it's...

I'm hesitant to say that it's because there's so many. Literally, there's like a whole thing about how it's like been ruined. Like, well, it seems like it's been ruined because if you look and Andrew Jackson, they're like, Andrew Jackson was the people's president. He was the populist. He was the whatever. And then it kind of got ruined in the 60s.

And Donald Trump is also a populist. Now, I think Donald Trump and Andrew Jackson are sort of birds of a feather. He loves Andrew Jackson. He's his favorite president. Well, he's going to love the musical Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson. There's a musical for everything. It's a tone. And it's a tone where the leader, who's usually not actually like an unreal man of the people, is set.

That I'm for you. I'm going to I'm going to protect you against these elites or these immigrants or and it usually mixes with like nationalism or xenophobia or something that creates an enemy. Yeah. And again, it's like they alone can fix.

They alone can fix it. And I think that there's a – if people are confused about what it is, it makes sense because the definition is not fixed and people use it to refer to different – to like even just a small degree of a populist message, they will call it populism.

It's the us versus them situation. And we are the people and everyone else is the elites. But it's not like we the people is in a nice thing. It's like we the people and fuck you. Yeah, like Hugo Chavez. That's the definition of populism. We the people, fuck you. Until next time, I'm Vita Spear. And I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream. Good night.

American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzik. Social media by Candice Monega and Bridget Schwartz. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Betches News and follow me, Sammy Sage at Sammy and V at Under the Desk News. And of course, send us your emails to AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com.