Governor JB Pritzker on Immigration Reform and Fighting Climate Change
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Rise and shine, fever dreamers. Look alive, my friends. I'm Fee Spear. And I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream presented by Betches News. Where we explore the absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience with the governor of Illinois. Welcome, Governor Pritzker. Thank you. Great to see both of you. You too. Thanks for making the time for us. How are things in Chicago? Did you get the snow like we did over here in Rochester?

We got some snow. It's actually not that bad. And oddly, over the last, I don't know, five or six years, we get less and less snow during the winter, which I, you know, again, I'm not happy about climate change, but I'm happy about having, you know, fewer snow days. You could have like a whole new winter tourism resurgence down in Chicago. See?

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a balmy 12 degrees out right now. So, yeah, well, you're all welcome to come. Actually, it is beautiful and people are enjoying themselves because, you know, we're tough in Chicago. That's right. Well, speaking of the weather, we know that it's when we're recording this, it's day five of Trump's second administration.

And one of the things he did first was pull out of the Paris Climate Accord. But something that you've done as the governor of Illinois is join the U.S. Climate Alliance, which was actually created the first time he pulled us out of the Paris Agreement. Can you talk a little bit about what you can do as a governor when the federal government isn't taking climate as seriously as you want them to?

Well, I'm so glad you mentioned that because it really was, I think it was my first two days in office. We, you know, and Trump was president back then. This is 2019. I joined the U.S. Climate Alliance, Illinois did. And it took us about two years from that time to the time that we passed one of the most comprehensive, you know, bills to fight climate change in the entire country. It's called the Climate and Equitable Jobs Act.

And basically it phases out the use of fossil fuels for the production of energy in the state of Illinois by 2050. And it restored a whole bunch of solar credits, for example, and wind. You know, we're very focused on renewables. We actually are a state that has a lot of nuclear power reserves.

And I know there's some people that don't like nuclear, some that do. But, you know, I got into office and we have the most nuclear power of any state in the entire country.

And so we want to take advantage of that in this moment because phasing out fossil fuels and replacing it with renewables probably would take longer that, you know, in other states that don't have, you know, nuclear. So we passed a bill called the Climate Equitable Jobs Act, CEJA. And essentially what that's done is we've more than doubled the amount of renewables in

in the state of Illinois just over the last few years. So that bill was passed in September of 2021. And by the middle of 2024, we were on our way from, we had gone from only 7.5% renewables in the state

and about 52 or 53 percent nuclear to having more than 20 percent renewables. So we're phasing out coal, which was a big deal in the state because we have coal mines in southern Illinois. So that's historically a way that energy was produced. We're slowly, slowly phasing out natural gas.

and then replacing it all with, you know, some great solar fields and wind and again, continuing to rely upon our nuclear. So when you talk about, you know, what do we do when the federal government is absent? The answer is that, you know, we've been on this path for some number of years now. And even though Joe Biden has did really terrific things, as you know, with the Inflation Reduction Act,

We already had a path that we were on and it kind of got accelerated by the, you know, the last administration.

We're going to continue on that path. We know that Donald Trump doesn't like electric vehicles. We've been encouraging it. We're actually building electric vehicles. Rivian is here in Illinois. We're actually we just signed a deal that Stellantis is going to build EV and hybrid vehicles in the state. And then we've got a whole bunch of suppliers. So and we were on a goal to hit a million vehicles, EV vehicles on the road this

over the next several years. So, you know, that's, we are committed. This is a state, and people really believe in it, no matter where you are in the state. You know, there's a few folks who are following Donald Trump's idea that EVs don't matter, or that, you know, that it doesn't matter where your fuel or where your energy is coming from. But most people in Illinois do care about it, and they're actually taking it on themselves with

putting solar panels on their roofs or being part of a community solar association. Fantastic. You mentioned wind. What is your take on windmills? I simply must know. They kill the birds, Sammy, obviously. How dare you ask the governor about the dead birds?

Obviously, and the whales. That's your position. And the whales. It's important we get you on the record with this. Yes. We love wind. And, you know, wind is actually – Illinois was a little behind. You know, when I came into office, if you looked just across the border in Iowa, you know, they put windmills up and actually produce, I think, all of their energy now, not just from wind but from renewables in the state of Iowa. Yeah.

And we in Illinois had been behind, even though we've got basically the same wind. They call it the Windy City, don't they? I mean, it was right in the name. It was bound to happen. Now, I'm going to tell you a quick story if you don't know this. It's called the Windy City. And yes, you can come to Chicago and feel the wind off the lake. But

That is not why it's called the Windy City. It's called the Windy City because back in the early 1900s, the Chicago Tribune started referring to the politicians as being windy. Oh, OK. And full of hot air. Right. So so that is why we're called the Windy City, even though plenty of people think it's because the weather. That's really that's a great fun fact. That's a good tip.

There you go. Clip it for social. Wait, I got two more facts for you so we can talk about them all, you know, the entire podcast if you want. Did you know what state produces more pumpkins than any other state in the United States? I have to assume it's Illinois. Yeah.

It is Illinois, Morton, Illinois, the pumpkin capital of the United States. And then what state, this is kind of funky, what state produces more horseradish? In fact, 75% of all the horseradish in the world.

Comes from Illinois? Illinois, yeah. College Bowl, Illinois, Southern Illinois. Half over and Halloween must be huge for you guys. Oh, yeah, huge, huge, huge. And, yeah, if you come over to my house, I got pumpkins all day long and all year long. That would make a great campaign, you know, come to the Windy City during Halloween before the weather gets too rough. But speaking of Chicago, we're recording this at the end of the first week of Trump 2.0.

And he had been teasing raids in Chicago, ICE raids. And can you, I guess, enlighten us about how that went down this week? What actually happened in Chicago or within the state at all? Well, as usual, when you hear Donald Trump say something, you don't know whether it's true or not.

And you don't know whether he's going to promise and deliver or not. And as it happens, they said it was going to happen this week that we'd see raids by ICE. We did not.

And thank God. And but I do expect that they will show up. It appears that they're challenged to find enough people to, you know, in ICE to.

to carry out these raids. But, you know, they're trying to deputize folks from all across the federal government at ATF, for example, FBI and so on, to do the things that the immigration forces normally would do. So we're very concerned about this, obviously. And we've been preparing by making sure people know what their rights are, that they know that, you know, they have to be careful when their kids are coming out of school, believe it or not,

They're looking to wait outside of schools. And when they believe that a child's parents are undocumented, they'll pick up the parents watching the child go to some car.

And and then and then you've got a child who is a legal resident or maybe even a citizen of the United States who will lose their parents because they were picked up outside of their school. So we're very concerned about that. And we're making sure people know what their rights are, make sure they've got their documentation, whatever it may be, and that they've got plans for, God forbid, if they get picked up.

that what would you do with your children? And so we've got actually laws we put on the books to make it easier for them to transfer guardianship in the event that they get picked up and are held.

And so that's just one example of what we're doing, making sure that we're, you know, focused on – we have something called the Trust Act in Illinois. And what that does is it says that our local law enforcement, state law enforcement cannot coordinate with federal officials on

when it comes to, you know, someone who might be undocumented solely because they're undocumented. In other words, look, a violent criminal who's undocumented, frankly, I want them arrested. I do not want them in my state. I don't think they should be in the country. If you're a violent criminal and you are undocumented, but that's a very small number of people.

We're, you know, we have many, many hundreds of thousands, frankly, in Illinois who are undocumented, law abiding people holding down jobs, paying taxes. They're good neighbors. They're often anchors in their neighborhoods and friends to people.

you know, across Chicago and we should be protecting them. And that's what we're doing. So it's a it's a real challenge. He's Donald Trump has caused real chaos and confusion. And and and people are very fearful across the city of Chicago. We're doing our best to protect them and keep them safe. But, you know, we don't know what's coming.

Something that I'm wondering if we could follow up on it. Back in 2019, January of 2019, you signed an executive order that expanded access to Illinois Welcome Centers for Immigrants and Refugees and helped them really understand, like, look, this is the path to citizenship. These are the steps you have to take. We're going to give you some health care education. We're going to help you find jobs and legal services. How has that impacted immigration in Chicago? Like, has it been successful in helping people integrate into the community? Yeah.

Yeah. And remember, we have lots of documented immigrants, right? People who are, they may not be U.S. citizens, but they're here with a work visa or they're going to school. I mean, lots of people who are, you know, terrific and we want them to stay. We want them, as you just said, to follow a path to citizenship. And if you're undocumented...

We also want you to follow a path to citizenship. You know, my great desire is for us to have comprehensive immigration reform in this country. Look, you need border security. We need border security. You can't have a country without a border, you know.

But at the same time, we have lots of really great people that are here in the United States and in Illinois. They should have the ability to get where they want to be, which is to be a permanent resident or eventually to become a citizen. I can't do that as a governor. And, you know, we need a national government that believes in immigration reform. We haven't had any immigration reform since 2008.

The 1980s and people tried and tried and tried. And of course, the latest attempt was Republicans walking away from the table, not wanting to do it because they believe that this is an issue that was helpful to them in the election.

And so I just think we've got to get away from the politics and just good public policy around what's good for the country. We're, you know, it used to be that we were families would have 2.3 kids. And if you remember any of these statistics. And a picket fence. Oh, OK. Yes, that's true. Yeah. None of those anymore, I suppose. But but but but on average, 2.3 kids right now, we're we're, you know, having 1.6 kids.

per family in the United States. That's fine. People are making choices for themselves. But you know what the great advantage we have? That's happening all across, by the way, you know, the wealthiest countries in the world where birth rates are coming down. But you know what advantage we have in the United States? We're a country of immigrants.

And we you can walk down the street, you know, you know, your neighbors and we know we are used to seeing people that look different than us, that speak differently than us. Right. We're an accepting country in general and other countries are not like that. So we should want immigration and encourage immigration. It's good for our economy.

And it's good for businesses. And frankly, it's good for our society more broadly. Did you know 46% of all the Fortune 500 companies, Fortune 500 companies, 46% of them were founded by immigrants or their children? There we go. Yeah.

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Bye.

What you're saying here is exactly the kind of thing that deeply confuses me that the Democratic Party did not make a line of communication. And this gets to a bigger question. Sure, there has been no policy for decades. And also, we know that the Republicans were the ones who came and, you know, essentially wouldn't accept what was their own kind of border security bill.

And we also know that immigration and its tie to inflation was a huge problem for the Democrats in this election. Can you try to shed some light on what is this failure to communicate within the Democratic Party? And why is there a failure to make a coherent argument for why immigration is a good thing?

especially because voters know they they know their own ancestry. I mean, so where is this argument during the election? Good question. I mean, we really ought to ask that question of, you know, folks who are running national campaigns, because, look, we have to stick with our values. But, you know, we have a set of values that, frankly, when you explain them to people, people agree. Right.

They're values that working families agree with. And, you know, this idea that the Democratic Party has walked away from, you know, workers in this country or from middle class or working class families in this country. Not true. But the messaging, just like you're pointing out, Sammy, the messaging, I think, in this last election is.

was wrong. And we have to articulate our values properly. I think explaining to people and reminding them that, you know, when you go to the grocery store, when you go to the restaurant, when you go buy your food, by the way, which is grown by folks on farms, that often the people who made that possible are immigrants, and many of them are undocumented immigrants.

And they're, again, hardworking, following the rules, doing what we want people to do. Shouldn't we want those folks to become citizens? And yes, are there some people who cross the border illegally who are meaning to do harm, right? Are they become criminals, violent criminals in this country? None of us want. I don't know anybody who thinks it's a good idea for us to protect them.

So why can't we articulate that during the election? I don't know what to tell you, but our values are not wrong. But our messaging about those values hasn't, you know, come through in a general election scenario.

You know, and certainly didn't in this last November. And I don't want to fault anybody in particular. I just want to say 108 days. You know, we had a nominee for 108 days and people didn't really know her to begin with. All due respect, people don't generally know who the vice president is or what she believes.

And so, you know, could they have done better? Even taking her out of the equation, it's the whole country that shifted to the right. When you look at the map, every, you know, for the most part, it was just a rightward shift.

I agree. I don't blame her entirely for this. It's a party communication issue. So just from what you've seen, is there any sort of effort happening now or have you seen any coordination or initiative to correct this issue? No.

Well, I want to disagree with you. I do not think that the country shifted to the right. Here's what I think. First, our messaging wasn't, you know, proper, right? We didn't have our messaging down. And I, you know, again, we could talk about how we should fix that. But the second thing is, you know, you had Elon Musk and others who control social media platforms, right?

who were promoting messages that were false. It wasn't just misinformation. It was disinformation. And it continues, by the way. And so it's hard for folks who are working all day, taking care of their families in the evening, or just exhausted after holding down two jobs, maybe.

It's hard for them to know what's true anymore in social media or that they're hearing on TV. And I

So we have a real problem, I think, in this country of we have to get our message through to people. We have to make sure that there are platforms that we all subscribe to and are part of where we can get that message out. And then I think, you know, there have to be people who sit in important positions, governors, senators and so on, who share our values, who are out on the hustings all

all the time pushing that and coming on to programs like yours, right? A podcast like yours and, and just, you know, talking about what's real, right?

I don't think Democrats have done enough of that, just being themselves, talking about what it is that really matters to average folks out there and to the most vulnerable Americans. Can I tell you my hot take that I hope that you use your power to take up to the Democratic messengers? Because I think that I have like I think I have the plan. Are you ready? Yeah.

So many folks on the right that I talk to were like, I have a 30% conservative audience on Under the Desk News, some of the military folks, some folks who are working a job, right? Like regular blue collar people are like, well, when I look at the Republicans, they make it look like I'll be more successful over there. They'll put money in my pocket. Like a lot of the billionaires and Logan Paul and these fancy guys, they're all on that side. And that looks like good to me. And my...

rebuttal has been, there are really wealthy, successful Democrats, you guys. There are some very cool, successful people who were self-made millionaire, billionaires, whatever you want to call it, like Michael Bloomberg, like yourself. There are these traditional American families who have maintained the values of being a Democrat, caring about the First Amendment, caring about voting rights, being able to...

recognize their wealth or the opportunity that this country gave them also gave them a responsibility to care for people as opposed to on the right when they take any opportunity they get. And I feel like they use it to exploit people. So my thing, this, stay with me. Are you ready? For the next election, we do Governor J.B. Pritzker and V's yacht tours. Okay. We go out on

the Great Lakes and we do fun stuff and we show people that successful, cool people want you to come on our boat, okay? We want you to come and have fun. It's not all being like the moral superiority or the academic or the nerd. We are fun people who you also want to have a beer with and we won't exploit you or mess you up. And we have boats. That's my goal.

I love your idea that we should remind people that there are good people in this country who come from all kinds of different backgrounds, including maybe coming from a wealthy background or just very successful people. You know, we interviewed Emily Tish Sussman, who comes from one of the wealthiest American families. And we said, you know, why are you a Democrat? It seems like a lot of folks, you know, in your bracket are on the other side. And she was like,

Because I understand the responsibility of wealth and opportunity, and I own a soccer team, and I want to make sure that a family of four can come and watch the game. They've got money for parking, peanuts, merch if you want, season ticket holders. I want them to be able to enjoy themselves. What good is it for the top 1% to continue to just take

money out of the system. And then nobody can even enjoy the things that we built. Like, what's the point in being a billionaire NFL owner if nobody can buy a ticket to the game? It gets to a point where you lose value in the very thing that you built. And I thought that that was so interesting. And I don't know that that's something that a lot of the more wealthy Democrats have shown. This idea of like the American dream is how you continue to leave the door open and create opportunity for other Americans, too.

Yeah, I think, you know, this comes down to values. It's the values that your parents teach you. It's the values that you grow up around. Maybe it's the values of your religion. But, you know, I think about the many—I'm Jewish, but I think about many Christians who, you know, who forget that so much of what Jesus taught—

was about caring for your fellow persons, making sure that you're, you know, you're standing up for justice. And, you know, and I think the

Those values are and I'm not just talking about religious values, but but, you know, those values are, I think, shared by a lot of people, but but not don't get articulated much. I grew up, you know, in my circumstance, you know, I grew up with parents who were very involved in.

you know, in fighting for my mother in particular for LGBTQ rights and for reproductive rights. And she was, you know, at marches and meetings and advocating for candidates. And she would take me with her when I was, you know, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. And I always say that, you know, that I'm not sure if I became a Democrat by nature or by nurture.

But but I do know that that watching my mother and, you know, listening to the surroundings and even if I didn't understand it all, what I knew was that we had to stand up and care about other people's rights and that other people's circumstances, not just our own.

And so I, you know, and I think there's a really good, you know, how do I say it? I think there's a really good middle ground for people to find about, you know, of course, we're all standing up for our own rights and values and, you know, but also about just empathy. And I think, FYI, people should be able to go out and crush it in business and

And, you know, make a lot of money and be hyper successful. And we shouldn't stand in their way of doing that. But at the same time, you know, they should recognize as they're succeeding that there are other people that you don't want to pick up the ladder and take it away from them. You want to help people climb that ladder, whatever it may be, the ladder of success, whatever, however you might define that.

And at least, you know, again, I point out another thing, which is I do think empathy is a huge part of what really matters in kind of public policy and politics. I get that there are people who don't have any empathy. I think Donald Trump is chief among them. But I'll just give you my own one circumstance to share with you, which is my mother, who really is my hero, is.

She passed away when I was 17 years old. My father passed away when I was seven, my mother when I was 17, and she was an alcoholic. And my brother and sister and I, you know, had to kind of manage through her alcoholism during our formative years.

And she was, you know, she sat us down one day. She knew she was an alcoholic and she tried to get help and, you know, but she sat us down one day and she said, you know, I want you to know that I'm an alcoholic and sometimes things I do seem like it's because I don't love you. I love you, but I have a disease and I'm trying hard to overcome it. And I think just hearing that from her, like still carries with me about how

When you meet people and you talk to people and just to understand their circumstances are, you can't even know what they're going through. She was a single mom. She had resources, but when you're going through, when you have a disease like that, you know, and you got three kids and you're a widow, um,

And imagine if you don't have any resources, which a lot of people don't and are still in those circumstances. So I just think that that's – what underlies the answer that you got in that interview is that there's something about their upbringing. There's something about those circumstances that really reminded them everybody's human. Everybody needs a little help.

and that not everybody gets to live a luxurious lifestyle. And so we just have an obligation to one another. That should be like an American value. I want to thank you for sharing that story about your mom and that vulnerability. There's, I'm sure, a bunch of people listening right now who will feel very seen by that. And these are the things that I think sometimes we miss when we're always trying to talk about policy is like the why we became good people, the why we care about folks. So I appreciate you sharing that. Thanks, Vee.

Yeah, that is, I mean, that's what I would say has inspired me to care about other people, like witnessing things in my own childhood, in my own experience, having specifically having a brother who had autism was, I would say probably the number one, you know, teacher and that, but yeah.

How do you suppose that we get back to this sort of pro-social values around money and around public service? Because culturally, it just seems like we are so at odds with that where greed and exploitation are rewarded. And the only counter to that is something like an eat the rich sentiment, which, by the way, I'm personally curious if you got offended when people say that because it's

you know, for obvious reasons. But how do we get people to see money as, have a healthier national relationship with money and with wealth and with what we can do with it?

You know, I think if you asked any set of parents, you know, even most Republicans, most Democrats, if you asked any set of parents, do you want your child to be empathic? Do you want your child to understand, you know, the world better? I think most parents would be like 100 percent. They believe that.

Many maybe don't, but most would. And I think that one way to instill this, and remember, this is really about a long, you know, the arc of the moral universe. How do we teach our children those things? How do we convey those values? I think that doing public service in school, like as part of a curriculum, ought to be something that's universal in public school. And we ought to fund that.

And then we ought to encourage people to do public service coming out of school. Like how about allowing people to cancel their student debt?

If they'll do public service, just a little bit of encouragement. Now, you may say, well, you know, gee, we're providing dollars to encourage people to do the right thing. But the truth is that a lot of people can't afford to do public service, you know, if you've got a lot of debt. So I guess what I'm getting at is that...

You know, we need to kind of reinstill these things as part of teaching about who we are as Americans, because the history of the United States is that, you know, bending toward justice. But I think people have forgotten that, like that going back 50 years or 70 years, which is what Donald Trump's trying to do.

is not an American value. Indeed, the most patriotic thing is moving forward, expanding rights, protecting people, making sure that, you know, as we move forward, you know, at one time it was, you know, it was that African Americans in this country, you know, were mistreated, not just, I'm talking about after slavery, of course, but, you know, but like terrible discrimination for many years, right? And then, you know, things have improved dramatically

lots more to go. But LGBTQ rights, I mean, this was something nobody protected for so many years, right? And it became the cutting edge and we could go through lots of other groups in between. But my point is that we've been bending toward justice since the beginning of this republic.

And I really believe reminding people that in of that in school and also encouraging them to do public service together would make a huge difference.

Let's see what Moms for Liberty has to think about teaching public service in school. You know they love emotional social learning. Yeah. Yeah, they don't like it because their kids come home and they're more empathetic. I've seen several times – I'm a millennial and I started working for – my very first Gen Z boss was a couple of years ago. It was a young guy who was running this company called Hungry Harvest. And I did not know exactly how to talk to him because he was so advanced in social emotional learning that I –

I would like make a mistake and I would think I was going to get fired for it. And he'd be like, well, what did we learn from the mistake? I mean, that's just the way that things – he was so chill that it was like unnerving to me as a millennial. And of course the Gen X parents don't like that. That was – Gen X had a rough go of things. They're like, what do you mean we have all this time and patience for other people? Yeah.

So yeah, no, I feel that. So you're saying that parents are progressing too over the generation. Yeah, they have to because their kids come home and are more advanced in understanding than even they are. And I could see why some people are pushing back on it, I guess. It makes you uncomfortable when you have to learn and be vulnerable. But I agree. I think progress always wins because deep in people's hearts, they want to be the good one. I mean, that's part of what I've talked about. And even with the way that

young people are being targeted by maggots because young men's protective instinct is being triggered and they're just telling them to protect the wrong thing. They're making trans people be aggressor, not the bullies. They're making gay people a threat to their marriage or to society sustaining. And like, that's not what it is either. And it's like, if we could just trigger their protective instinct,

towards actually protecting the people that need protection, then maybe we could get back to like when the Hells Angels used to ride kids who were being bullied to kindergarten and stuff. I mean, we could go back, right? We are going back. We're not going back. We're not going back. We've made so much progress. I will not allow that in my state anyway.

But I want to add one other thing, which is because all the progress toward justice that you're describing and protecting people, you know, there's another kind of justice and that's economic justice.

And we don't talk enough about that. And I'm not talking about, you know, people want to say when you say economic justice that, you know, you're I don't know, you're a socialist or whatever it is that they want to say about that. But economic justice is about people just living. You know, we are a wealthy country broadly. Right. And we have the ability. You know, you talked about, you know, wealthy people, you know, you know, thinking about everybody. You know, we can afford that.

in this country to support people who can't support themselves. We can afford to make it just a little bit easier, maybe a lot easier for a working family to, you know, send their kids to college. We've done free college in the state of Illinois for, you know, for so many people.

We now have, you know, we've raised the minimum wage. We have the highest minimum wage in the Midwest at $15 an hour. And I did that in my first year when minimum wage was $8.25 in the state of Illinois.

And, you know, I know there are people who are like, he's a socialist, you know, I mean, which is crazy. I've had people yell from across the street in one town. I remember two older, you know, white guys who saw me across the street. They yelled communist, communist. Oh, wow.

I don't think so, brother. That's why the culture war, right? Because if people could really see that these things are possible, then those who do not want that because they want it for themselves would lose out. So they need to create these other distractions and names and narratives in order to make that happen. But in reality, it's that they're all just trying to enrich themselves ultimately.

It's frightening the misinformation or disinformation and what that causes. I'll just give you one quick example. I introduced in 2019, we have a flat tax, income tax in Illinois, flat rate income tax, and it's in our Constitution. So I wanted to change that and introduce a constitutional amendment to change that to a graduated income tax system, which is

Much better. And so wealthy people would pay a higher rate, right? People who are working class would pay a lower rate. In fact, what I proposed would cause people to get a tax cut. Ninety seven percent of people in Illinois would get a tax cut and three percent would pay more. And so I introduced this. I pushed it. The wealthiest guy in Illinois.

put $55 million up on the other side of this and raised maybe $5 million more. And then they ran a campaign to convince people that actually this is bad for you.

Even though you're going to get a tax cut, it's bad for you. And we've been taxed more than $55 million is what I'm wondering. I should have just paid the taxes. He overpaid. Oddly, this guy probably pays $50 million a year. So for him, it's an investment. But here's the interesting thing. So in southern Illinois, where we have, frankly, more poverty than almost anywhere else in the state,

Right. Chicago is in the northeast corner of Illinois. But in southern Illinois, we have a lot of people who at 99 percent, 99 percent of people who live in southern Illinois would have gotten a tax break from what I proposed. They voted against it. And, you know, like, how can we make progress if disinformation can win the day on something like that where, you know, dollars in your pocket?

So we have a long way to go, you know, to win these battles. But I wasn't trying to do anything more than, you know, I mean, this is like the difference of a percent or two of tax on wealthy people and giving a cut for everybody else. And it would have been good for Illinois' budget where we would have had about $3 billion more, you know, to make sure that we can pay for pensions and all the other things, health care and everything else.

We didn't win. We didn't win. But we got to keep fighting this fight and reminding people how this is good for them. Like just their economic justice means people, you know, being able to just live in

a life without having to, you know, skip hills or starve or not get health care, which is, you know, should be a universal right. And it doesn't cost that much, but it's disinformation that costs the wrong people. I guess so. Yeah. To that question of solving this problem of disinformation and messaging, do you have someone in mind who you're supporting for DNC chair?

You know, I know, well, three of the candidates I've met or know. I'm not supporting anybody publicly yet or if ever I haven't decided. It's Marianne Williamson. I know it. She's going to be on the show next week. We'll see. If there's an award for like most interesting. I mean, I've never interviewed her or anything, but I bet she's pretty interesting.

Yeah.

But that's not what a DNC chair really should be. It's not they're not the ones who are carrying the big message of the Democratic Party. They're the ones who are effectuating how we win. And and we win when we have infrastructure on the ground in the 50 states and in particular in the battleground states. And so I you know, so there are two candidates that are running that that have done that.

And I happen to know one of them better. This is not an endorsement, but I'm just telling you I've seen him in action. He's the chairman of the Wisconsin Democratic Party, Ben Wickler. And again, I just...

All I'm going to say is that I've seen him build the Wisconsin party. The Illinois party had been destroyed by the chairman of the party who was there when I got elected governor. I had to run a campaign without the Democratic Party of Illinois because there was no Democratic Party of Illinois to help candidates.

And so I asked Ben Wickler to come like, you know, teach us how to build a party in Illinois. And we've been doing it, you know, candidate recruitment, building out, you know, precinct operations, making sure we know how to raise money online and so on.

on. And so, again, I know Ken Martin also. I think he's a good guy and I know he's done great work. So no endorsement. I was just articulating somebody I know and the type of person that I think, you know, is somebody who knows how to build infrastructure. I think you're right. Not an endorsement, just information.

Well, again, I know you're smiling like I'm, you know, secretly endorsing. I do know Ken Martin. And by the way, he helped pick Chicago as the location for the DNC. So I'm very grateful to Ken Martin. And I do think he's a good guy.

I think you're right when we talk about needing to build trust from the ground up. There's all kinds of studies out right now saying that trust in institutions is at an all-time low, whether that's media or politics or anything, unions even, everything. And so it's just getting back to being in those rooms and building trust and recognizing that we are all just humans sharing a weird little experience for a period of time. And how can we find common ground and find people who share our values and build on that? So before we let you go...

We do try to give people hope on this show, the American fever dream, not the American fever nightmare. So what's something like good? What are you holding on to for hope through the rest of, you know, Trump 2.0 and some of the challenges that face us? Like, what gives you hope? Well, the first thing that gives me hope is that I can already see that the the

you know, there are folks out in the states and I'll start with some of the governors, Democratic governors who are willing to stand up and do the right thing and say the right things and, and, and make sure that, you know, we're not allowing the forces that, that are standing up for Donald Trump, that they're not running roughshod over states where, you know, we, we just want to protect the people of our state from, you know, bad things happening to them. And,

You know, I'll give you one very hopeful thing. When I was—earlier this week, I went to the—Little Village is an area of Chicago that is mostly Mexican-American. There are lots of small businesses. It's actually the second largest area for small businesses in the state of Illinois. And I just walked around and went to some of the stores and restaurants to talk to people and

You know, and people care deeply about each other. Like they're hopeful. And it wasn't just that I was running into Mexican-American people who were standing up for undocumented Mexicans. It was people of all backgrounds who were just, you know, nodding their heads when I would say, you know, we got to make sure that people, you know, are safe, right?

and protected. People agree with that. And then, you know, we're making lots of progress in a state like mine on things like early childhood education. We just signed, I just signed a couple of days ago, the Dignity and Pay Act, which

Now, we'll get rid of the sub-minimum wage for disabled people in our state. So now you can earn $15 an hour when you work an hour. Yeah, that's a good one. In our state when you're disabled. So, I mean, but we're making progress, you know, and even with all of what's going on in Washington, D.C., and the danger that it all feels like and the fear that people are experiencing,

We're protecting people in our state. So I think there is hope. And I think that we're going to see we all have to work very hard to win elections in 2026.

And then again after that. But I mean, 2026 is key. We've got to take at least one branch of either the House or the Senate. I think it would be more likely to be the House. But we all have to do the work now to make sure that that happens. And again, as Sammy said, messaging is going to matter.

And we need to articulate our values and not get painted into a corner saying things that don't sound like what most people are thinking. But in reality, we're the ones standing up for their rights and for their economic justice. And so I think we can do that. I do. I just think we got a little off track. Getting back to the message is right, but we're not moving to the right direction.

in order to do that. We're just going to articulate our message better because we know what we stand for is what most Americans believe. Well, I got to tell you, I tell a lot of people to move to Rochester if they don't like where they live, because I think Rochester, New York is the greatest place on God's green earth. But I'm getting convinced that perhaps Illinois could be a close second. If people don't want to deal with the lake effect snow, you heard it here first. Governor Pritzker's got your back. Head over to Illinois. You could deal with the other lake effect snow there.

V, you know, and Sammy, too, you know, we're happy to provide you a key to the state. Come to Illinois. I'll take that. At least come visit.

And you should do – maybe you should do a podcast from Chicago and do it live. For sure. If you come on, we'll do it. I'm there. Perfect. We're going to need them. I'm going to tell you, I used to work for the James Beard Foundation. Iconically holds their award ceremony every year for like ever in Chicago. Maybe we'll come back for that. There's lots of good restaurants, lots of fun stuff in Chicago. And of course, the state of Illinois is more than just Chicago. Well, we could –

live broadcast from rural Chicago if you want. I think that could be fun too. Come in the winter. I always say, you know, it's cold outside, but warm in our hearts. Oh, perfect. Thank you, Governor. Well, I appreciate you. Thanks for coming on and thanks for giving us a little something to be hopeful for. Thanks, V. Thanks, Sammy. Thank you. Until next time, I'm V. Smear. And I'm Sammy Sage. And this is American Fever Dream. Good night. Good night.

American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzik. Social media by Candice Monega and Bridget Schwartz. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Betches News and follow me, Sammy Sage at Sammy and V at Under the Desk News. And of course, send us your emails to AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com.