30. Doug Emhoff: The Husband of Kamala Harris
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Welcome to The Rest Is Politics US with me, Cathy Kay. And I'm Anthony Scaramucci. This is very exciting because today, for the first time ever, we have a guest on the program. And it is none other than the second gentleman, the husband of Vice President Kamala Harris, Doug Edmonds.

who we're very pleased to say is a listener to the podcast. The role of second gentleman, of course, not normally one that propels you too much into the limelight, but since the vice president Kamala Harris took on the presidential nomination, Doug has been flying all over the United States. He gave a great speech at the Democratic National Convention that I think at the time I tweeted out was probably the most important speech of the whole event because it really introduced Americans to her as a person and as a,

mother figure and as a family person in a way that maybe they hadn't been seen before. And he's been going on a ton of media campaigns, holding rallies of his own, all of course, to support his wife in her bid to be president. So the former lawyer is now the second gentleman

Doug Emhoff, thank you for joining us. Great to be here. I've listened to your podcast and now I get to be on it. This is great. I could have told Anthony to smarten up a little bit if he'd known the jacket was coming, but we'll try that for next time. I feel bad. I'm not British. What can I do? You can see what it's like. Doug, think Yiddish, dress British, right? Doug, think Yiddish, dress British, right? That's like the life hack, earn in America, live in Europe. That's the other one that they say.

how, first of all, how do we address you? I want to make sure we get this right. You guys kind of know me, so you can, you can go Doug, SG, not Dougie though. That's only for combo. Yeah, no, I would never, I would never be so bold. Yeah, I wasn't going there. You're,

You're spending an awful lot of time out on the campaign trail at the moment. I'm glad that we've caught you while you're back here. I guess you're in Washington. Are we speaking to you in Washington? Yeah, this is a one day in Washington. We're catching up. I've already done a couple of events. And even when we're here, still working hard. Are you having fun out on the trail? Are you enjoying it? I am. It's been intense. It's been just about almost every single day since July 21st on the road.

But you're seeing just incredible crowds, enthusiasm just to see me. I just got off a swing through Texas two days there. We had 1,200 people show up to see me in San Antonio. We're raising lots of money. And it's just really the enthusiasm too. So I'm really feeding off of that.

The same thing you're seeing in her big rallies, you know, I'm getting at mine and you're just feeling that happiness, that joy. So you can't help but, you know, have fun when you're out there doing it. And I'm just really trying to stay healthy, you know, sleeping, hydrating and trying not to eat all the crappy food on the plane in the whole rooms. And just so I can stay out there. And, you know, it's 40 days left from today. So we can do anything for 40 days.

You go out, obviously the people that turn up to your rallies and to her rallies, they're excited to see the two of you. I love your self-deprecation, almost British. But why do you think the polls are so close? Well, we're getting the word out there. I mean, I think if you go back to where the polls were before July 21st, I think she has made up a lot of ground. But it's going to be close. These elections each cycle are very, very close. We're talking...

to now a small band of folks who haven't decided. But the good news is we're talking to them in seven, eight plus states right now instead of just three. So that's why I was just in North Carolina. I think it was yesterday.

I was in Florida. We're traveling to all these places just to get the word out, but you heard our economic speech. You're seeing the endorsements. We got this amazing piece written by General McChrystal that came out today that he's choosing on character, on leadership, on adherence to our American values, rule of law. So we're starting to see those folks

Come in. You saw that the Cheney's came in. We're getting more and more Republicans each and every day. And I think we're trying to address what the hesitance has been and whether that was on the economy. Look at the look at the split screen yesterday on Trump trying to talk about the economy and just can't because he's incapable.

And her giving a vision of this opportunity economy with details and some meat on the bones. And that's the difference. You've got somebody who actually is competent, who cares and doing it in a way that a leader should. And then on the other side, you've got somebody who's just talking about in an economic speech, scapegoating immigrants.

And I think she's really trying that contrast. It's really resonating. And I'm seeing it in the crowds coming to my events. You're seeing more and more folks that are curious to hear more. And we're really trying to address those concerns that these swing voters have in these specific locations. And it's starting to resonate. I want you to respond to something, Mr. Second Gentleman, a statement that was made to me yesterday. So I'm going to ask Doug this.

The vice president is a master tent builder. Okay. And the second sentence is Bernie Sanders, Stanley McChrystal, Anthony Scaramucci, and Dick Cheney walk into a bar. And we're all in the bar together to raise a glass to her. I want you to respond to that.

and her personality and what her gravitas is to pull those varying types of Americans into the tent with her. I thought you peeked at my stump speech, Anthony, because that's literally how I'm ending my speech with...

how she promised day one that she was going to earn the nomination check, unite the Democratic Party check, but then unite the country. And that's what's happening here. And I say the tent is so big, Bernie, AOC on one side, the Cheneys, Anthony, and others on the other side. But it's what Liz Cheney said so well. It's what General McChrystal said so well. There may be differences on particular policies, and nobody's going to agree with

everyone on every single policy, but we have to agree on the big things that make us Americans. Our rule of law, our constitution, not be clowning ourselves, but having that gravitas on the world stage and sticking up for our allies and actually just sticking up for America.

And this is this is the greatest country on Earth. Things are going well. The economy is going well. And we want a leader that represents that that confidence in who we are as Americans. And I think that's the common thread you're seeing from when you and I have had this conversation, Anthony, and other Republicans that I've talked to and those who've gone public. And again, as Liz Cheney and others have said and shown, and you have done that as well, it's not enough to just say I'm not supporting Donald Trump.

That's not enough. You've got to support Kamala Harris. If you really care about this country, you really care about the future. And look, you and I, we need a strong Republican Party. We need them to come back. So we are having really good debates on policy and ideas and what is the best way to move us forward, but not on the basics, not on adherence to rule of law, free and fair elections. If you lose, you have to accept defeat and try again some other time, not foment an insurrection.

I mean, these are the base core principles of who we are and what makes this country great. It makes our economy great. As you know, Anthony, authoritarianism is bad for business and chaos is bad for business. So I come from the business world. I make this speech to business leaders all the time. Don't just feel, oh, Trump's good on the economy. Well, I can debate that.

Till we're blue in the face. He was not good on the economy. But the things he's saying, weaponizing the DOJ, terminating the Constitution, going after enemies, dictator on day one, that's terrible for our economy. That will wreck our economy. Then you add in the tariffs and his terrible policies, tax cuts to billionaires. It's not even a question. So this is why we're getting this big tent. You know, this is a political podcast, but I was dying to ask you this question, if you don't mind. You're a...

Like me, you're a recovering lawyer. You had a great career as a lawyer. We have a lot of young people that listen to this podcast. If you don't mind, can you give us a couple of minutes on your career and the changes that you made and where you sit today and how what you did prior has prepared you for what you're doing today? Yeah, I miss it. I was a lawyer in Hollywood for about 30 years. I

I loved it. I was one of those lawyers who was just, I loved every minute of it. I love the practice. I love the action. I love the clients. I love the subject matter and even the business of law. So when she, Kamala got the call from Joe Biden in August of 2020, that I didn't know it at the time, but that was actually the last day I ever practiced law. And I was working as a busy lawyer right up until she got that call. So for me, it was a very abrupt transition.

transition. And when Biden-Harris won that election, I was really, I think, struggling a little bit at the beginning to find some, okay, what do I do here when I was so invested in my practice and in my love of being a lawyer? And it was really Kamala who said, hey, look, you're the first guy and you're the first Jew and you're a lawyer. So you got three great areas that you can lean into. Gender equity, which of course, after Dobbs became something that

I've spent a lot of time on and being the first Jew fighting against hate and anti-Semitism, which I've leaned into, and then access to justice more pro bono. But I have been lucky. I've been able to teach at Georgetown Law School on the side. So I teach a class in entertainment and I teach a class in alternative dispute resolution. And there I can kind of keep my brain active. I can read the cases. I can stay current.

And I'll tell you, when I meet up some of my old colleagues, I just want to talk about cases and clients and what's going on. And they just want to talk to me about politics and being a second gentleman. So it's never going to leave me. Even though I'm recovering, I still think in point two, I'm never late. I know exactly what time it is after filling out a timesheet for 30 years.

That never goes away. But the skills though, people say, wow, you know, how are you able to do this? And I said, look, to be a lawyer in Hollywood, nobody wants a shaky lawyer. You got to be calm. You got to be confident. You got to be able to speak extemporaneously. You need to take in a lot of information. You need to listen because the bar there in Hollywood is actually pretty small and you see these folks regularly. So you've got to

you know, follow up on your word. You've got to, you know, follow through for your client. You got to make their problem, your problem. So a lot of those skills that make you a successful lawyer actually do translate into politics. So not that it's been easy. None of this is, I prepare the same way as I do for everything. Like a lawyer drives my team a little nuts sometimes.

If I'm meeting third or fourth graders at a school and I'm just saying, hi, well, you know what? We're going to be the most prepared person ever to do that. And whether it's big moments or small moments, I treat it all the same. And I'm also, I'm doing it for her. I work, I'm in the office of the vice president. So I have to make sure I'm doing it for her. And I've got her back both as her husband, but also being good at this

helps her and helps the administration now helps the campaign can i ask you a bit more about that kind of role model thing i mean i'm sure you've noticed there are depressingly few men who are in your position when i i was naive enough in university to think that half of the world would be men like yourself and supporting their spouses what would you say to young men who the trump campaign is appealing to with a kind of slightly retro macho view of what masculinity is young men who

might want to be in a position one day of supporting their spouse, but are worried that it would diminish their own masculinity. Do you feel now that you're in a kind of position to try and reach those people, those young men? And how would you do it? It's something I think about all the time. And for me, it just came very naturally. I think it's the era we grew up in. I think we're all around

same age-ish, Katia, you're probably younger, but it's that pre-social media where we really came up together, men and women, you were working together. So when I started, it was actually a few more women than men at the firm.

And so for me, it was always very normal to support women in your life. And it just is something that I did. And I think that's why Kalma and I really bonded is that we supported each other professionally and as husband and wife. And so for me, it's always a bit curious when I get asked this question because it's just very normal for me. But I've also learned that

I can't lecture, I can't be a scold, I can't really tell people what to do, especially in this area. I just have to say, look, here's what I do, here's why I do it, here's why it's important to me, and just try to do it that way. And also, I'll just use facts where economically, women succeeding do not hurt men. It actually helps all of us. So there's this trope out there that if a woman succeeds, it's at the expense

of some guy as if it's a zero-sum game. It's not. I mean, the economics prove it out that when we lift up women, when we have more women in leadership. But a lot of young men seem to feel it is a zero-sum game, seem to feel, you know, more for you is less for me. Well, that's why I'm bringing this up because I want to challenge that belief

believe because it's just not true. It's not true in any organization. I've been trying to talk about it in a way that just, again, it's what I do. And it's the same way I talk about DOPs where this post-DOPs hellscape that we live in where women are dying

I have the same conversations with 25 year old Ella, our daughter, and now 30 year old Cole, our son, who's married now and thinking about starting a family. Like this is an issue about one fairness, women should not be treated less than, and it also affects family. You see these horrific stories where like Amanda and Josh Zyrowski, Josh is out there telling his story about how his wife almost died when they tried to start a family through IVF. It's very powerful. So

Getting more men to just talk about their own lived experience, why they're doing what they're doing, I think it will destigmatize

and demystify some of these issues. And it's also, look, I'm the guy that jumped up on a stage when somebody was attacking my wife. I mean, I'm a dude. That's who I am too. So both things can exist at the same time where I will stick up for my family. I will stick up for my friends. One of the reasons I became a lawyer is because I hate bullies. I was a bigger kid. So I was always the one standing in front of the bullies. Well, you got to get through me first. So that's why being a lawyer was such a great

profession for me. So all these things can be true. You can be a dude and I love sports and I have a fantasy team and I'm really protective of my family. But I also believe that women should succeed. We need more women in leadership and it's okay to take a step back.

from your career if it makes sense for your family so your partner or spouse can go for that promotion, go for that raise, put their hat in the ring to run for elected office. And so just trying to show what I'm doing and hopefully that'll get across. I want you to answer the following question. I thought your speech at the convention was A plus

And I know you're thinking a lot about messaging. And so we're in the elevator together. Tell me the message. Give me the message. So that speech was really a part of the message, which was, one, get to know me a little bit, get to know her. But third is she is ready to be president of the United States and commander in chief.

Day one. So it's that joyful warrior. The joyful part is the member of our family, the woman that we all love, Mamala to the kids, someone who leads with empathy, who leadership, you're not there to beat people down, but you're there to lift people up.

But the warrior part, the one who had no problem when Donald Trump is throwing everything at her behind a computer or behind his phone or the safety of his rallies. And she said, you got something to say, man, say it to my face. Well, there he was at the debate five feet away. He didn't look at her one time and she had no problem looking him right in the eye and saying, you are a disgrace. World leaders are laughing at you. So you're seeing that. But she's also a capitalist.

As she mentioned in her speech, pragmatic, capitalist, see problem, solve problem. Not ideological. She's all about how can I solve this problem? That comes from herself being a great lawyer.

And so you add all that up, you know, she's got the qualifications. She was a prosecutor. She was an elected DA, attorney general, senator, vice president. And as vice president, she's in the Oval. She's in the sit room. She doesn't need to learn how to be a world leader. She already is a world leader. So you take this all together. Yeah.

And you add in the economic policies, which are going to help a broad amount of people, she's ready to be president right now. Doug, was your best class trial advocacy? I was a pretty good trial lawyer. I can tell. But it's all got to be authentic. This is who she is. And this is what I have viewed that speech to do is to just show the Kamala Harris that I know in all these little aspects of her life is

And also bust through these caricatures of her, which are so wrong and ridiculous. And what they tried to say about her has so been debunked by herself just being up there, her DNC speech, her debate, her speech yesterday. This is who she is. And they just can't seem to be able to deal with it. Doug, you've spoken a lot about having a regular marriage and a kind of normal being a regular couple. I'm just wondering how that's going these days.

It's so funny you mentioned that today, just today, she happened to have a White House day also, as did I. And since we do not get to spend a lot of time together, all of a sudden I see all this scurrying around in my office and all this murmuring and it's like the door opens and there she is, big smile on her face.

just everyone gets out and she just said, I just wanted to come in and give you a big hug. And I gave her a big hug. And how you doing? I'm great. I'm going to go do a caddy and Anthony's podcast. I'm on my way to the DNC. She's like, I got a few events and it was, it was,

Such a distillation of the fact that even with all this going on, she still took the time to come in because we're not getting enough time together to give me a big smile and a big hug and tell me that she loved me. And I told her that I loved her and, you know, I'll see you on the road.

You take your dates where you can get them these days. Yeah, not a lot of happy couple of times these days. And again, I will, you know, you're surrounded. It's like Kamala everywhere. And I'll say, hey, did you see this? This part? She's just like, uh-uh. Just literally will take my head, put it down and just get back out on the road. And that is exactly what I've been doing. And I will continue to do it.

it for the next 40 days. And this is the one thing I think Waltz and I disagree on, where he's been saying, I'll sleep when I'm dead.

Tim, I'm going to sleep on November 6th because I want to enjoy the fruits of our labor here once they get elected. Doug Emhoff, thank you very much. The second gentleman, thanks very much for joining us, Doug. We really appreciate your time. We know how precious time is out on the campaign trail. And good luck out there. Thank you both and keep doing what you're doing. Best of luck to you, Doug. We wish you the best.

So, Anthony, I felt we covered a lot of ground with him. What did you think of the interview? I found him to be remarkably warm and he was very relaxed. And he strikes me as a guy that really loves his wife. And so he sees his role as

in a way that I admire a great deal. And by the way, if you can hear some sirens and car horns behind me, apologies there. It's UN week here in New York and you're catching live New York City commotion. So I'm going to say five things and then turn it back to you. He's warm. He's authentic. He's very, very bright. He's a passionate advocate for her.

And then the last thing, which I think is the most important thing, he genuinely loves her and he genuinely loves the country. So I think all of that came out in the 19 minutes that we had with him. I did a little bit of digging around and called some people who'd known him from before in his earlier life when he was a lawyer. And they said, you know, look, he really was the real deal. He was a very client facing entertainment lawyer in Los Angeles.

he wasn't somebody who was in the kind of back room that everyone pretended was a great lawyer. He really was. He brought his law firm a lot of money and a lot of clients. The reason they were kind of telling me this was to say, "Look, for him to give that up." I think that what I liked about the interview was how he was honest about how he missed it. It's not easy to give up a career. It's not easy for a woman to give up a career to support their husband, and it really isn't easy.

for a man to give up their career to support their wife just because it's not done very much because it is still kind of novel. I mean, that's why he's always being asked about his role. And I thought for me, those answers were really interesting where he talked about the role that he has. And I thought when I asked him,

How do you then become a role model? I mean, there are these two, we've spoken about this on the program before, there are these two kind of competing views of masculinity in these campaigns. You've got these two supportive men in Tim Walsh and Doug Emhoff, who are both supporting the woman who is the kind of principal in this whole scenario. And then you have the kind of view of masculinity that J.D. Vance and Donald Trump are talking about, that Donald Trump has always

spoken about this kind of macho and retro. And I thought it was interesting when he said, look, he's realized that if you're trying to influence people, you have to, you know, it's that classic Hollywood thing. I guess he's been in LA long enough. You have to show, not tell. And that telling people this is the way to do it and you must support your spouse. And that means there's a bigger pie for everybody. It's not a zero sum game. Being a scold, as he put it, doesn't really work. And so he just hopes that

by being out there and leading by example and being honest about, you know, it's not always easy. You might miss the career you have, but you do it because it's the right thing to do and because you love your spouse and because actually you can make something very valuable out of it. I thought that was...

Really interesting. I know he's thought about that. I've heard him speak about that, but I thought he spoke about it really movingly and also honestly about the limitations of what he can do. One person is not going to change the world and he's not going to change everybody's view of masculinity, but there is the battle for what it means to be a man going on. I thought the way he talked about that was very thoughtful.

What did you think about the policy stuff? What did you think about what he said about the economy? Because I know that's an area where you've got some concerns about the campaign. What did you think about what he said about that? Well, again, it's not my personal concerns because I've read through her position papers and I've talked to enough of the people on her economic team. And I will tell you that Gene Sperling, who was with Biden, is now with Harris. Who worked for Barack Obama. And with Clinton, Bill Clinton, 30 years ago. Gene is a personal friend of mine.

And you get a guy like Gene Sperling in the White House, that's very good for the economy. And I think Gene Sperling is not only a good luck charm, but he's brilliant on policy and she's listening to him. And you can see that was evident with Doug said, which is, we're going to go for the right solution, not something that's overly politicized. And

And I think she's really benefiting from what I would call a sprint election. And just hear me out for a second. If I've got to go through a primary, I've got to go way to the left to get through the primary. I may not even believe the stuff I'm saying, but I got to do that to get through the primary. And so she didn't have to do that.

And so now you're seeing who she is. She is a middle of the roadster. You talk to people in California, Ron Conway, venture capitalist, Reid Hoffman. She's a middle of the roadster, moderate, and you're getting her centrism. Her husband is channeling her centrism. And I think it is resonating. I think your speech yesterday resonated that.

And I'll just say one other thing quickly. Eight states caddy. He said that when they got the campaign on the 21st of July, they had three states they were looking at.

but they're now looking at eight states. The most important in my mind of those eight states is North Carolina. He has just gotten back from North Carolina. We have a gentleman there by the name of Mark Robinson, may or may not be a gentleman, so I'm using that phrase loosely. He's calling himself a black Nazi. They were behind there. They're tied now. They're in a dead heat. I took

a moment to look at the demography of North Carolina, because I believe in these elections, demography is destiny. In Washington, people is policy, as we both know, but in an election, demography is destiny. And it turns out that North Carolina is more black, it is more college educated, and it is younger than it was in 2016. And that

bodes very well for Vice President Harris. And it turns out that the voter registrations are off the hook in terms of the increases for young people in North Carolina. Remember, if she wins North Carolina, Nevada, Michigan, and Wisconsin, she does not need to win Pennsylvania.

And so they've got the map open now and they're very smart people and they're executing. Yeah. And I think North Carolina probably looks better for them than Georgia does, you know, as we're recording this. So do you think having listened to him and I've watched some videos of him out on the campaign trail, do you think he makes a difference? Do you think Doug Emhoff persuades anybody? I mean, it was interesting when I, he didn't really answer that at the

given all the enthusiasm he says he's seeing. But do you think he makes a difference to the campaign? Do you think he improves her chances? It's interesting. That's why it's a lot of fun to do this podcast, because I saw it a little differently. I think what he was trying to say to you is, Katty, when we got the baton from the Biden team, we were way behind. We closed that gap since July 21st, and we're accelerating. Our momentum is improving. And I actually believe that.

Okay. So I believe, I believe he's accelerating because more people are getting to know her registrations are up younger. Every time a young person registers, it's seven tenths of a Democrat. Don't forget that. Okay. So when I look at young voter registration, I'm like, okay, that's good for the Democrats, but he,

He matters for lots of reasons, but let me talk about the big three. Number one, he loves his wife and I guarantee she leans on him because he's a very smart, thoughtful, analytical, and he's legally trained and lawyers have a really good way of taking two complex

opposing ideas, understanding both of them and synthesizing them and providing good advocacy for their site. And he's very good at that. Number two, he's incredibly disciplined, incredibly organized, and he's helping her on the fundraising trail. And number three, the more he's out there

the cooler she looks. This is a terrible thing for me to say. Deirdre's going to smack me for saying, my wife makes me more normal. You actually make me more normal in the sense that we're having a normal conversation. People think I'm out there because I have a tendency to be out there. If you meet my wife, I look a little bit more normal. That's what he does for her. He makes her cooler, the combination of the two of them. There were a couple of things also that he said that

about her that I thought was really interesting, which shows how conscious she has always been of needing him to have a real role in this, of needing him to be a partner in this. Because he's made a point of saying she was the one that said, listen, make something of this role, do something about gender and being a first, second gentleman, and do something about

antisemitism. You're the first Jewish principal in the White House, which is still kind of astonishing to me. And we have a rise in antisemitism. So get out there and use your legal talents to campaign on those issues. And she clearly thought he needs a role in this too, right? He needs to be a partner in this, not just a supportive spouse in this. And then I thought the other thing, and this is just at the end of the interview that was so sweet, was how

she comes back from the campaign trail. I know what political campaigns are like, and you know, you are not seeing your spouse very much. You are not getting a lot of that fun, happy time together. And I thought it was sweet the way, and I liked the way he laughed and smiled about it. You know, she comes in, she's off the campaign trail. She realizes he's in the same building and comes in and gives him a hug. You know, he's, he's doing a lot for her.

And it's grueling work. And it's pretty thankless because he's not the one that's going to be president. And just that little thing of her going in and giving him a big hug to pep him up. And she knows he needs it. And he needs that recognition too. And I thought that was a nice indication of her and her role in this. She's smart. She's emotionally smart in the way she is managing this whole situation. I agree. And I think there's something about loneliness as a candidate that

If you've got the right spouse and you don't feel lonely on that job, I think it's a big boost. And by the way, again, I don't want to talk about the domestic relationship of Trump and Melania Trump, Donald Trump and Melania Trump, but it's probably very different, Katty. I'll just leave it at that. I think we were just going to leave it on the nice sweet note of the hug on the campaign trail.

We'll be right back after the break with some New York City news where for the first time ever, the mayor of the Big Apple has been indicted on federal charges. Eric Adams has been indicted by federal prosecutors on charges of fraud and campaign finance violations. We'll talk about that and we'll talk about what it means for the broader political scene at the moment ahead of these November elections.

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custom window coverings in the world. Blinds.com is the GOAT. Shop Blinds.com right now and get up to 45% off select styles. Rules and restrictions may apply. Welcome back to The Rest Is Politics US with me, Katty Kay. And I'm Anthony Scaramucci. Welcome back. So, Anthony, there's been a lot of news in your city in the last couple of days that is about the New York mayor's race and Eric Adams, who's been indicted on five federal charges of

bribery, fraud, and soliciting illegal foreign campaign donations that prosecutors say began back in about 2014, but was all building up to his 2021 bid to become mayor of New York, his successful bid to become mayor of New York.

It's kind of taken the city by storm. Obviously, it's huge news. I mean, there'd been some suggestion of this because he'd had his phone seized by the feds. It didn't come totally out of the blue. But when I listened to the indictment being read out by the prosecutor's office, it did sound to me that they were pretty sure that they had the facts to back up their case. I know that you know Eric Adams. I know that you have donated his campaign in the past.

And I was just wondering what your kind of take was on this, how surprised you were by it. I mean, I'm surprised kind of by the stupidity, I guess, of a campaign that puts on text messages, you better charge us more for a business class upgrade. Otherwise, it's going to look like we're taking favors or we can't afford to stay in the Four Seasons campaign.

But then having people say, don't worry, you don't have to pay for it. I mean, it really never ceases to surprise me that people think they can put this stuff on text and get away with it. But from your point of view as somebody who knows the mayor much better than I do, what's your sense of what this means for him and what this means for New York City? And then we can get into the politics of what it means for the race. I mean, I'm going to say a lot. So I'm sorry because I'm too close to the situation. Forgive me. And I am a supporter of his. And I recently gave to his...

current campaign. But here are the things I would say. Number one, it looks like he did something wrong. And I would say to the mayor, if you've done something wrong, you got to resign because you and I both know it's going to have a deep effect on these congressional races if that's overhanging him and the Democrats. So if you're a Democrat, you want him to resign.

you will have a kangaroo situation because if he resigns, there's a 90-day special election. So meaning in 90 days, they have a special election. My friend Andrew Cuomo, the former governor, would like to come out of his political exile and he would like to run for that seat. He's let a lot of people know that. There's Jumini Williams, who you may or may not know, but he is a very hard left guy and would like to turn the police department into a group of social workers.

which I don't think would work in a city like this. It would make the city very unmanageable. So you have left, hard left, and then you have left, like take a left and head to Cuba. And then you have somebody that's centrist, like somebody like Cuomo. And so I would want Cuomo to win that race if that were to be the case. But here's the thing I would say about the corruption, the level of corruption in

It's so small. It's so petty, Caddy. It adds up to $100,000. I just want you to think about that for a second, how blinded we could be in these positions. I had an official here from the Singaporean government this morning, came to see me in my office. We did a home and away. I was in Singapore last week. He came to see me. They pay the politicians in Singapore a

10X what the politicians are being paid here in America. And that would also go for the same in the UK. And there's a reason for that. They don't want them to take a free hotel room somewhere. They don't want them to get a free airline ticket somewhere. So we put these people in these terrible positions. We're going to pay you no money. You're going to live in the most expensive city in the country and good luck to you.

And again, I'm not equivocating or alibying for the mayor, but I'm just saying- Yeah, I mean, his staff knew that what they were doing was illegal. Yes. If all the allegations are true. It just speaks to how bad the system is. Pay the guy enough money so he can live in the city and do a good job. Or you got to hire a guy like Mike Bloomberg, doesn't need the money, one or the other. Yeah, and that's what's happening increasingly in America is that you just get, it's only going to be very rich people that can run for political office at some point.

We should say he has said that he's innocent. He said that he's the target of kind of political witch hunt. I mean, it sounds almost kind of Trumpian what he is saying. He gave this kind of weird press conference in the rain under a little tent with hecklers on both sides.

The broader political implications of this are interesting. I think the indictment sounds so detailed that they have the text messages, the hotels he stayed in, the business class flights he took back, a lot of it to Turkey. It's all about Turkey and that the pressure was on him, what the Turks wanted in Russia.

response was that he would waive some of the safety inspections on or get the officials to waive the safety inspections on Turkey's new consulate in New York City so that they could open it more quickly than perhaps they would have been able to otherwise.

But the broader political implications of this, I think are interesting because of course, in the New York area, as you know, you've got three of the most competitive house seats in the country. And these are seats that were lost by Democrats in 2022 in the midterm elections and won by Republicans in kind of a shocker to the Democratic Party. And a lot of it, my understanding is, was dissatisfaction with the governor, Kathy Hochul, who's a Democrat and how she is running the state.

And they kind of took it out on their local Congress people. And so you've got these Republicans who came in and helped the Republicans win back the House in 2022. And I texted one of the Mike Lawler earlier today when this news was breaking, because he's one of those congressmen in one of those districts, and you probably know him, Anthony.

and said, what does this mean for you? And he said, look, he's completely underwater, the mayor, along with Governor Hochul. And then in the swing districts, it really doesn't help the Democrats. And that's why lots of people are calling on Eric Adams to resign. So for those Republicans, and I think if you are Mike Johnson, the Speaker of the House right now, hoping to hold on to your majority in the House,

you're looking at what is happening to Eric Adams and thinking, hey, this is pretty good news for us, aren't you? Well, 100%, which is why, you know, if he wants to help out the party...

He resigns, but I understand he's under the gun. He's also taking the position that he was very critical of the administration related to the migrant crisis, and he thinks there's been some DOJ retribution. I don't know if that allegation is fair or not, but that's some of the reasons why he's dug in. Since you mentioned Mike Johnson, and I like to go into overtime caddy, so I'm sorry. I just want to ask you a question. Mike Johnson sends a nasty letter to

to President Zelensky yesterday, and he basically rebukes him for going to a armor factory in Pennsylvania with the governor, Josh Shapiro. He says this is a campaign stop for Vice President Harris, and he rebukes him. But he did offer to meet with President Trump and J.D. Vance, et cetera. Of course, they rebuked him. He did offer to meet with Republicans in Washington. They rebuked him. Do you think that letter was fair? Look, I think...

President Zelensky has tried really hard since the beginning of the war to stay out of American politics. And he's done a pretty good job of it. I would say until this week, where the visit to the factory, I think was one thing. He gave a very nice heartfelt tribute to the people who worked in the factory and thanked them on behalf of the Ukrainian people and on behalf of the soldiers who were on the front line. But he also, in an interview with the New Yorker magazine, described J.D. Vance as too extreme. I

don't know that that is helpful to Zelensky's cause, just because we know that Donald Trump is looking for any excuse he can get if he wins to row back financing to the Ukrainians for their war effort. And I think a smarter move on Zelensky's part would have been to continue his policy of staying out of American politics. I think it was fine to visit the factory. I think that's a nice tribute to Penn. Yes, Josh Shapiro was there, but he's the governor of the state.

Senator Bob Casey was also there, the Democratic senator. So I suppose you could make a case that this was a campaign stop. But I listened to the remarks. I thought they sounded genuine and heartfelt. I think it was a little silly of him to give that interview and wade into American politics like that.

It just, it doesn't help his cause. And President Trump, former President Trump, canceled a meeting with him as a result of that interview. So, well, listen, it's a dicey situation. But on, just quickly on Eric Adams, Mayor Adams, I hope he quickly draws a conclusion. Either he proves irrefutably that he's innocent of the charges, even though the evidence looks remarkably damning.

or he gets religion and says, I got to get out of this situation and resigns. Do you think there's a possibility that he didn't, that it was his campaign staff and he genuinely didn't know that they were getting these business class upgrades and staying in hotels? Do you think that's possible? And even if it's possible, is it irrelevant? Because it suggests a culture in the office that allowed a permission structure for that to happen.

Well, I think legally it's probably irrelevant. I think it may be beneficial to him from the spirit of things, but I think it broke the law. So I think it's not that relevant. But listen, you know, and I would just say this, when the windows open, you hear a clippity-clop, it's usually a horse caddy. It's not a zebra out there. So get it in line, get it under control, and let's get going. Yeah. And I think even though it's complicated and it's messy and it hasn't been done before,

I think that either he is going to have to step down or Kathy Hochul because the spotlight, if he refuses to step down, the spotlight is going to be on her to say, you've got to get rid of him. You've got to make sure that he goes. She could be the Nancy Pelosi of New York State. There you go. A lot of tough women driving out a lot of older guys. Yeah. That's why I'm being nice to you. I'm an older guy here. I don't want to get blown out of the podcast seat. I've got to be nice to you every week.

Always impeccably nice to me. On that note, it's time to wrap it up. Don't forget episode three of our series, How Trump Won the White House is out on Monday. And in this episode, we're on the campaign trail discussing Hillary Clinton's basket of deplorables comments. Remember that? The Access Hollywood tape, and

and the FBI announcement of Hillary's emails being reopened. And if that's not enough for you, we've got an extra dose of political drama. We are launching a weekly question and answers episode for our founding members starting this Saturday. And listen, we've had so many fantastic questions. Um,

I love answering the questions and I'm probably too long winded, but I'll just let you know that this week we're going to be talking about who will succeed Donald Trump as the next leader of the Republican Party.

Our favorite historic elections. I got too many of those to name, actually. And lastly, whether George Bush will come out against Trump. So if you want to sign up to hear our wonderful question and answers every week, just head over to therestispoliticsus.com and become a founding member today. Now, I can't say that with the caddy K accent, but I'm imploring you to sign up at therestispoliticsus.com and become one of our members, please. Founding member.

Thank you.