23. The Obamas vs Trump
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Hello and welcome to The Rest Is Politics US with me, Katty Kay. And I'm Anthony Scaramucci. And we are incredibly honoured to have with us here in Chicago the esteemed, the one and only, the irreplaceable Alistair Campbell. I felt I was dripping with irony. We've been chastised already, Anthony, for not...

giving enough love to the rest is politics UK on our podcast. I thought it was justified. And I think I said we were going to fall on our sword. It was going to write through our sternum, blood on the floor. And so I thought I would make up for it with a great buildup. Thank you very much. Because I am a congenital conflict of order. I'm just so glad you're in his presence and not me. Me too.

Because I would have not, I've not would have been able to have handled it. I hate people being cross with me. It goes back to my school days. I was just making, I was just making this observation. Brilliant, a brilliant observation. There's barely an episode of The Rest is Politics, the original version, that doesn't sing the praises of the mooch and Cathy Kay. That's very sweet of you. And so we have to make that adjustment immediately, Cathy. Yeah.

I'm going to make the judgment. We are. We are. We are starting. You are worse than the Catholic nuns that used to hit me with the pointer. You are right. And I am wrong. How's that? That's good. If only Donald Trump would say the same thing. What do you say? Nostra culpa. Nostra culpa.

Is that what it is? Nostrical for the two of us. He's never apologized to anybody. God forbid. Okay, let's move on, guys. Alistair and I were both at the convention again last night, Anthony, this time listening to the speeches. There was Doug Emhoff, Kamala Harris's husband, and of course, the rock stars of the Democratic Party, Michelle and Barack Obama.

So I want to talk about the big moments of the night, and then we're also going to get into how the Republicans might respond to this big Democratic love fest here in Chicago. After the break, we will also discuss the news that RFK, who is running as an independent, may be considering dropping out of the race to support Donald Trump.

And we have a couple of interviews from the floor of the convention center. So let's start with Doug, who has been Kamala Harris's husband for 10 years this week. It is their wedding anniversary on Thursday. She is also the stepmother to his two children, Cole and Ella. And there was a very touching video that Cole, I thought Alistair did about his dad, kind of making fun of it and his dad jokes. And I thought that was...

I actually thought that Doug Emhoff's speech might be one of the most useful speeches to Kamala Harris of the whole of this convention. - I don't know him at all, but what I've seen of him wasn't how he came over yesterday, both in the film,

which was incredibly warm, very, very personal, and somehow managed to tell this story about the fact that, you know, the divorce of his parents was incredible, which is Cole and Ella's biological mother and... Kristen. Kristen, yeah. That was incredibly painful, but also that because of Kamala Harris's character...

She and then I call her mama. They became this extraordinary family a blended family as they called it But I thought what his speech did brilliantly was match that story of her as a stepmother to the sort of care that she would he would see her bringing to American people but he did it with real wit and you know the other thing a lot of the speakers seen this week I heard you on your excellent podcast Anthony I heard you talking about how every good speaker's got a speaking coach and

But what I thought was amazing about him was just how natural he was. It was autocued. It was. But he was one of the few speakers this week who felt like he was talking to and with the audience. Kept pointing over to his family in the box. I thought he was really great. And I saw you tweeted last night. I agree with you. I thought that that was...

Of all the stuff, they've all said how great Kamala is, but there was something unbelievably human about the way that those two of them, the two of them, the son's film and then his speech, I thought was great. And he also said to me, he'll be a real asset on the road. Yeah. Do you know, I've met him a couple of times, Anthony, and I think he is, he's very warm. He's very direct. He's incredibly personal. People who I know in Washington who know him much better,

like him a lot and say they have a very sweet relationship. Now, they've only been married 10 years, so it's still a relatively newish marriage. But what I also liked was the way he paid tribute to his kid's mom. He thanked her as well. You know, 40% of Americans are now in some sort of a blended family. It's not actually talked about a huge amount, but it is something that is more and more prevalent.

My kids are in a blended family. They have a stepmother and a stepfather as well. And it's now these families coming together in a way that is increasingly normal. And I love the way he said, you know, we might not look like the kind of family that's been in the White House before, but we are a very warm, loving family. And I think that situates her for all of the criticism that she's been getting as a cat lady from J.D. Vance's of the world, that situates her firmly in the role of...

in a maternal role and i think that was very helpful really look donald trump your friend donald trump anthony has been a massive massive presence at this convention my friend your friend and he he also launched a very very good attack on him essentially saying

I know this woman, mate, and you don't know what's coming after you. She is coming for you. That thing about family and protecting people, he combined with being a fighter. That was a big theme last night, wasn't it, Anthony? The fighting, her role as a fighter. You know, the Fed is having their meetings here Friday. We're having a cryptocurrency conference here. I stayed up and watched every one of those speeches. And my reaction, just three quick points on Doug Emhoff. Number one,

He's a lawyer. He's an entertainment lawyer in LA, and he's a very disciplined guy. I have obviously buddies of mine that I went to law school with that are very close friends with him. And so I was not surprised at how well executed that speech was and how thoughtful it was. I think I've mentioned this to you before, Katty. Maybe we shared this on the podcast. I was on a bipartisan trip to Israel with the two of them, and I had a gentleman. He was my PR person.

And he had lost his mom. And we went to the tomb of Rebecca to say Kaddish for him. And when we got back to the hotel, Doug and Senator Harris, at that time, Senator Harris, were in the lobby. And he had known about the death of his mother, Howard's mother. And he went over to him and talked to him about it. They were both from LA. And you could see the warmth between

And their warmth towards my friend, the PR guy who lost his mom. And every element of that resonated last night. So as Alistair points out, my friend or former friend, Donald Trump, who claims he's not watching the convention, he's not watching the convention.

He is watching it, actually. So, Caddy texted me and said, do you think he's watching it? And I said, no, no, he's not watching. I don't believe he's watching it. And then I called around. And of course, he's watching it. He can't help himself. It's like a fly to excrement. He can't help himself. So, are you saying that the Democratic Convention is shit? Is that what you're saying? No, no, no. Well, I'm saying in Trump's mind it is.

In the mind of a fly, it may be. So he's being drawn to it. I didn't say that it actually was. We'll go over my opinion of that in a second because I watched all of it last night. But you guys were there and I'm seeing it on TV, so probably different impression. But here's the thing I want to say. But you're seeing it the way most Americans are seeing it. So it's actually very good that you're seeing it on TV. Exactly. And, you know, listen.

Sort of a weird thing to say, but if you caught it at seven o'clock, Stephanie Grisham, a friend of mine who was also a former communications director and press secretary and communications director for the first lady, Melania Trump, gave a

six minute speech at 7 p.m. talking about the coldness of the Trump family and talking about his derisiveness towards his supporters and talking about how cold they were and then I don't know if they showed this there but they put up a text message chain

Amazing. It was very powerful. And it was very, very cold. It was the text message that she had sent to Melania on January the 6th saying, do you want to say, send out a tweet saying it's time for peaceful protests, that that's the law of the land, et cetera. And Melania just sent back one word, no. I just want to point that out to everybody. So you have Stephanie who worked for the family and

He is in still distress about having worked for the family, made a very big, in my opinion, courageous decision to speak out and explain why he is not in the best interest of America or the world. It's a very tough thing for her to do. So I applaud her and admire her. And then you get Doug Amos.

And he's painting this picture of a warmer family. You know the chemistry is very good with him and the vice president. And I saw that six years ago when they were four years into their marriage. And they have put the fun in the word dysfunctional, Katty K. Maybe the Scaramucci's aren't as good at it as the Emhoff's or the Katty K's of the world. But they have done it. Okay. And it's very admirable. Okay.

And so the question is, how is that going to cross over to votes? And I think Trump, okay, because I know him reasonably well, is going to get his cold streak going on them and dump more fire and brimstone. He's not going to go in reverse after watching that. He's going to get more aggressive with them because he's hoping that his aggression with them will break them and cause them to gaffe. And so anyway, those are my thoughts.

By the way, Michelle Obama, and we can get to that in just a second because there's one more thing I want to say about Doug Emhoff. Michelle Obama pointed to that aggression, what's coming down the pike for Kamala Harris. She basically said, listen, this is the high point, but don't kid yourself. This is a woman of color who's running for president, and there is a whole load of stuff that is going to hit her. And much of it will be lies and misinformation, but it's going to come eventually.

And we say that with some experience. Okay, one other question about Dagenpoff. And a lot was made of the fact, it was said in the video, he mentioned it, his son mentioned it, it was mentioned again at the end that he is the first second gentleman and would be the first first gentleman. Do either of you as first gentlemen's in your own right, I think, I don't think either of you are playing the role of second gentleman in your marriages.

think that a man who is playing the role of second gentleman, who has left behind their own career to support their husband, to support their wife, does that turn off any male voters in America today? Poor. Poor. I don't know. I mean, I don't know is the answer, but I read a fascinating piece this week on something called The Conversation, which is an academic writing about politics and other stuff. And it's three American political scientists who've done this

big polling on what they call hostile sexism where they find out how people are going to vote this is in america and they get the breakdown of going to vote republican going to vote democrat and they did it for biden trump and they've now done it for harris trump and what they do is they get the voting breakdown and then they ask them questions like

Do you agree with the statement that women want power in politics to get power over men? And if your answer to that is yes, that's their motivation, you're basically... Unreconstructed. You're a hostile sexist, yeah. And then it would be things like women aren't tough enough. Sort of obvious things that some men say. And what they established was a direct correlation between likelihood to vote Trump and hostile sexism.

That I guess my question to you Anthony's because to us as Brits most Brits I think look at some of the stuff he's saying about her now her laugh and

She's crazy. The DEI candidate also, which just feels like outward misogyny to us and possibly a bit of misogynoir as well. Is he doing that deliberately because he thinks there is a vote share there to be targeted or is it just his usual nastiness? Yeah, no, no. He thinks if you're voting Democrat, you're a beta male.

okay, i.e. second gentleman. And if you're voting for him, you're an alpha male, i.e. you're a primary predator in the ape community. And so yes, he's totally pushing that. And the short answer to Gatti's question is yes. He knows that. It's red meat. There are people in the Republican Party that feel that they have high testosterone if they're with Donald Trump. And if you don't

have high testosterone, then you're not with Donald Trump. I know it sounds crazy, but that's how a lot of these people think. Your poll is a little blunt in the way they ask the questions, but in the CBS poll that came out this week that had Kamala Harris creeping ahead in many of the battleground states, there's a more nuanced way or straightforward way this was asked in which people were asked,

Do you think women's rights have gone far enough or do you think women's rights have not gone far enough? And the answer found, not surprisingly, that women think women's rights have not gone far enough, but it also found that a majority of men think that women's rights have gone far enough.

And I think this subject of her as a woman candidate, for the last four weeks, everybody's assumed, oh, well, it's fine because she made it to the top of the primary and she's now the nominee. But I think we're going to start hearing more about that. And we're going to start hearing more about his role as a second gentleman and whether that, I think, you know, there may be voters who love it. But I think what they were doing last night was,

was trying to tackle that head on and say, yes, he is going to be a second gentleman. It's a new role. It's never been done, but it doesn't mean that men who are alpha men can't vote for her. So about three weeks ago, and I think I mentioned this to Katty, I got a call from his chief of staff and she reached out to me and said, listen, the SG would like to talk to you. Would it be okay to share your

Cell phone number, he'll be coming in on an unknown number. So answer the unknown number. What is the SG? Second gentleman. Okay. So Doug calls himself the SG. He called me, got on the phone, Anthony, it's Doug Amoff. We had a nice conversation. He didn't mention anything about you, Alistair. He didn't mention anything about me, but he said, I love Caddy K on the podcast. Okay.

Okay, and I had to overlook that, you know, because I know I'm the second gentleman on the podcast. I overlooked that. And then we proceeded to talk about the campaign and so on and so forth. You never know with Anthony whether he's just being nice. No, well, obviously the viewers and listeners know I'm not being nice. They know it's true. I'm a teleclogging fax. A fact check. I've got to jump in here because let me just say, I've already had to chastise you once this morning. I am assuming...

that during this phone call, you said, "Well, we would love to do the first ever interview with the second gentleman ahead of the..." I'm sure you said that, didn't you, Anthony? I actually didn't. I went for the jugular and asked for the vice president.

Okay, yes. Well, that's fine. That's fine. Good. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I just want you to know, I think I only had one shot at the apple and I was shooting very high, okay? But you did it for the UK. You did it for the father version of the podcast. I said, listen, Rory and Alistair want to interview the vice president. The parents. Exactly. We're a little bit in the doghouse, so. Katty and I are under the stairs like Harry Potter, but our parents are in the kitchen. They want to meet the vice president.

That's basically what I said. Can you help us out? Because otherwise we're grounded. But I just want to say this about him, okay? Right away, he brought up Howard and talked about his- This is your friend? Unfortunately, yeah, my friend. And now he, unfortunately, he had leukemia and he passed away.

since the 2018 encounter in Jerusalem. And so we discussed that and we discussed what a great guy he was. And then we talked about some of our mutual friends in the legal community. And then he said, hey, thanks, because you've been supportive of us, blah, blah. And he's coming to New York and we were going to figure out a way to meet up and so forth. But

why am I bringing all this up? It's a great name dropper. And I look up name dropping, you'll see me in the dictionary. So that's one of the reasons. But the second reason I'm bringing it up is that it was so disciplined. It was so on point. He asked me for names of Republicans that he could talk to, okay? Some of which frankly are speaking at the event, okay? And that are friends of mine. And I was like, you know, when I hung up the phone, it takes two to

tango. There is a Barack Obama who is a superstar, but he's made better by the other superstar, Michelle Obama. And I think he is helping her in ways that you probably don't see on the surface. The duck is paddling very quickly under the water on her behalf, and I was very impressed with it. I like that. I like his discipline. I like the fact that he's working to get her elected.

That's great. By the way, that in broadcasting is what they call a perfect segue. So let's move on to the Obamas because we now spent most of the podcast on Doug Emhoff, who I think is a fascinating figure and I think the role he has and I like the blended family and talking about that.

Michelle Obama on fire last night. We said this about Hillary Clinton yesterday, that she's somebody who doesn't care too much what people think about her. She's been through the mill and back again, and she is unshackled. And I think we had Michelle Obama last night

Talking in a way she would have avoided talking in 2008, where she was very careful not to be seen, as she said quite publicly, as an angry black woman. But when she said that bit about he has a problem with two very successful, highly educated, hardworking people who happen to be black, she wouldn't have said that in 2008.

And she said it last night and it was incredibly effective. And then she combined it with that great humorous line. And by the way, who's going to tell Donald Trump that that job he's looking for might just be one of those black jobs. I thought she was fantastic last night. I thought she was, we hear Michelle at part of Michelle Obama's superpower is that you hear her very seldom, basically every four years at a convention.

And when you do, she delivers. I agreed with what you both said on your podcast yesterday that Hillary's speech was, I think it was the best speech I've ever seen her make. I've never seen Michelle Obama make a political speech in the flesh before.

But it was utterly electrifying. Some of the lines were phenomenal. One of the things I want to ask you though, both of you, you rightly say that the audience went wild with that thing. Maybe somebody's going to tell him this is one of those black jobs. And this is when Trump talked about black jobs, which is a reference back reference to when he went to the National Association of Black Journalists and talked about black jobs and in a pretty derogatory kind of way.

It went down amazingly in the hall. Would there have been people watching that who are not necessarily, you know, might be swinging either way, not quite sure. Would there be people who might have taken that badly? In other words, take the message that she's basically saying, this is a black

job. You know, you've had Obama and now you're going to get Kamala and you better like it. Was that a risk? Oh yeah. Well, Republicans responded that way on social media. Did they? Yes, they did. And they took it that way. And a lot of his sort of, uh,

social media influencers were suggesting it that way. But it was a well-delivered line and she was playing to their base. And I got a question for both of you. I'd like to get your reaction because I've watched two nights of the convention and my reaction is it is weirdly similar to the Republican convention in the following respect. They are both playing hard to their bases. Right.

I didn't see anything in the middle. I didn't see any pro-business discussions. I didn't see any pivots. She's going to have to answer these questions at one point. What's your position on fracking? Do you still believe in the new Green Deal? Are you really going to tax unrealized gains and move every millionaire off of the shore of the United States? She's going to have to answer these questions. So to me, I feel like both parties are

have said, we're going with our base for the win. Okay, J.D. Vance, that's the base for the win. Tim Waltz, that's the base for the win. And the speeches, which are obviously cleared by her campaign, everybody gets the transcript of the speech before it's delivered. These are base speeches for the win. And I thought she gave a great base speech. And so the Black jobs comment was delivered well, and it was well received by her base.

But I think it rang a different bell in some of the Republican quadrants of the country. And it rang a different bell from the type of bell that Barack Obama was trying to ring in 2008, where he was very careful not to talk about himself in the context of his race. And she last night went hard on that. He didn't do it as much.

But she did. And I think she's given up that, you know, when they go low, we go high. She's, you know, when they go low, we go and fight with them. It felt pretty good low to me. We get down there and we fight with them. Can I say something very metrosexual before we go to the next topic, though? Would you mind? Because I've been accused by our viewers and listeners as a metrosexual. Yeah, her hair style was a very big statement. And you think I'm crazy. I mean, Alice is going to roll his eyes maybe. You're completely right. Let me tell you why. Okay, it was pulled back. Okay. And she had it off her face completely.

for her reason. She wanted every part of her face, every part of her facial expressions expressed on that television for that speech. And, and,

And she did that. And so I think it was well thought out how she was going to dress and how she was going to present her hair last night. You agree with me, Katty? Yeah, I do. And I think it was not, there was no attempt at straightening the hair. She used to do that when she was first lady. Sometimes she would straighten her hair in a way that looks, you know, less black classically. This had rows, there were extensions, there were the braids. It was much more, this is who I am and I'm 60 now and I'm going to say it like it is.

A really important point I thought she made, which also echoed something that Hillary Clinton said, is they were both hammering this no complacency message. Yes. You know, we've got to keep fighting. This is not over. This is not won. Just before, Cathy and I were at the CNN grill. Yeah. Outside the convention. And we bumped into somebody I'm sure you'll know.

David Urban who's the CNN commentator? I campaigned with David for Trump in 2016 all over Pennsylvania. Right and interesting so we had that conversation with him just before we went in and he we're gonna I'm gonna talk to him later because I found it very interesting he and I know he's a Propagandist and he's for Trump etc. But he made an observation to me which I took into the hall and

And he said, there's an amazing vibe here. It's incredibly exciting. There's lots of love for Biden. There's lots of love for Kamala. It's just, there's a great buzz. I get that. But, and this is what I always used to do at Labour Party conferences. You've got to put yourself in the mind who's somebody who's not part of your tribe, who's watching this, and what are they going to think? And you're making the same point in a different way, Anthony, when you said these are two conventions that have gone to the base. What has to happen out of the end of this week is,

is a campaign that is focused on getting the people over who are currently not voting for you. Amen. Amen. Yeah. Okay, so, well, there's a debate about that, right? Do you, or do you make this a turnout election? Do you think that if you can grow your numbers...

It's about the same thing. Well, it's different if you think you're trying to grow your numbers with low information voters who will be making up their minds at the last minute in the last couple of days and vote on a vibe, as opposed to are you trying to get somebody who's already thinking about voting for Trump? You've got to do both. I don't think they can get Trump voters. I think they're thinking you go for the low information voters who haven't made up their mind, who make up their mind in the last couple of weeks, may or may not turn out. I don't think they need Trump voters, but they...

if they only got a few non-voters, if they were able to bring in non-voters. But the problem is, what are the policies? What are the moderations? What are the policies? You know, Dave Urban, who plays the part of the Republican on CNN alongside of other Republicans, the Republican talking point narrative there is that things are so bad in the last 16 years that

The Democrats have controlled things 12 of the last 16 years. So why is it all Trump's fault? And David Axelrod got blunted by that comment. Okay. I think Scott Reynolds made the comment or

And he got blunt about the government. But the answer was a simple answer. It was, well, no, Obama handed Trump a very decent growing economy. And Trump, whether you like it or not, botched the COVID response and lost 21 million jobs. And it was decisions on his watch that caused the inflation in terms of all the induction of the fiscal and monetary policy that was pushed into the economy. But

my point is, you cannot be flat footed in this election. So David is not flat footed. I know him well. He's a West Point grad, we're contemporaries. He's a great guy. He's a great American. And he's a moderate, by the way. Okay. He's with Trump because you got to pick sides here, guys. Okay. But he's a moderate. But I think that the Democrats are going to make a mistake here if they don't respond to everything. And because let me tell you something,

You know, there's a lot of guys in the middle that are going to say, you know what? Wasn't so bad with Trump. I'm voting for Trump. She's an unknown entity to me. She's not Joe Biden. I

I don't know that the convention is the place for policy details though, Anthony. I don't think you're going to get a whole economic policy rollout at the convention because these people are not giving speeches that are based on tax policy or price gouging. You're going to get that coming out later in either in a series of interviews. If she decides to do them, you're going to get that at the debate. This is her story. This is trying to get Americans to actually wake up, you know, 30% of Americans say they have no idea who she is. So this is

all about selling the commodity, selling the candidate. David Urban made a very interesting point to me. And I don't know whether he'd actually looked up the numbers, but he said something like, on day one, Trump's name was mentioned something like 184 times, whereas the economy was only mentioned five. And I don't know if that figure is right or wrong.

I have been surprised that there hasn't been more Trump people who are actually, I thought one of the most powerful- We've got more coming. I know, but I thought one of the most powerful speeches last night, which was lost because of the Obamas, was actually that mayor. Yeah, he was great. The mayor from Arizona. Arizona, yeah. It was very short. It was three minutes. Yeah, and Ante mentioned Stephanie Grisham, who I agree, I thought was incredibly powerful. I thought both of those speeches were powerful for being so short, actually. But I would have liked to, I'd like to see more people coming out

And not just attacking Trump on character, which they're all doing, but attacking Trump, as you've just said, on policy failure. We have missed, you know, who was the star of the show, or ostensibly the star of the show. I think we spent more time talking about Doug Emhoff and Michelle Obama than we expected because they were so good last night, and perhaps because they were not Barack Obama. Barack Obama, we know he is the best orator in the Democratic Party, and he delivered that. And there were a whole load of people who were sitting in that audience saying, damn, can't we change the Constitution to have a third term? Yeah, he's listened...

If you've got a voice like that. If you've got a voice like that, he was so good. And if you've got that. And a sense of humor. He was wry. Yeah. Made a little dig on hand sizes. His thing about that. Yeah. His own age. He says, of course, I haven't changed at all. I haven't aged. Yes, he was good. But there's something that I noticed in his speech that I just want to share with you. And it was time.

And I don't know how to say this, but like my old boss used to yell at me when I was a 27-year-old. He says, you need a tincture of time. You're smart enough to do the job, but you don't know what the hell you're doing. You need a tincture of time. And when I looked at Barack Obama last night with his gray hair, very well-dressed, trim guy, he had...

has a level of wisdom now that he frankly did not have in 04 when he gave the speech in Boston, or even the nomination acceptance speech in 08. And if they deploy him and they deploy him with his wisdom, this almost shaman-like wisdom about the country. And Obama has read more of Abraham Lincoln

and Lincoln's writings and through his writings, his teachings, frankly, than any other living politician. And it is really a time, and I would implore you guys, if you're interested in America, to read the speeches and writings of Lincoln. I've gone back and started reading them again. And you can catch an Obama speech on

Lincoln-esque thoughts about the country, about the need to reunite the country, about the need for us to all be part of the self-governing process. And if they push him out into the American public and deploy him in a way that doesn't overshadow Vice President Harris or Vice Presidential nominee Tim Walz, Governor Walz,

I think it'll be a beautiful thing. He'd be like, hey, listen, I've been through the mill. I was an African-American at Harvard Law School in 1990 where cabs in Cambridge, Massachusetts were passing me. In year 2000, and he wrote this in his book, I had credit card debt. I had net negative net worth debt.

Eight years later, I was the first black president of the United States. I've been through the mill and I get this country. Give me a chance to go out there to explain to my fellow Americans why the two of you

need to be the people to lead the country over the next four to possibly eight years. I hope they do that because that is an incredible weapon they have on their side. And the Republicans have nothing like that on their side, nothing like that. One thing I've been really impressed by this week is the, in fact, it's a point that Rory made on our podcast, is just how many really, really, really good speakers there

the Democrats have got. And it's for an American campaign quite short. And if you sort of imagine that you're going to have a day where Obama's the big support act, another day where Hillary is, another day where Bill Clinton is, another day where Shapiro might be, another day where Buttigieg, who's interviewed, by the way, I've watched some of his interviews this week. That guy is a communications genius, let me tell you. He's great.

And so, whereas Trump, is it right that there's only four members who served with him under the cabinet who are actually still saying they're gonna-- - 19 who say they won't endorse him. - They won't endorse him. So that sense of, you know, and you talk about Lincoln a lot, and I agree with you, I think Lincoln's one of the greatest, well, he's one of the greatest politicians ever, but his speeches are still worth reading today. But that thing that Harry Truman said about, you know, it's amazing what teams can achieve provided nobody cares who gets the credit.

I think if they've got for all the tensions that I've been hearing about and I've heard you talk about as well, there have been tensions between Biden and Obama. There have been tensions between Harris and Obama and all that. But if you can get these guys on the same pitch for a campaign where they are very generously playing very much second fiddle to Kamala Harris, it could be unbelievably powerful. They are desperate to win. Yeah. They are desperate to beat Donald Trump.

and getting on the same team is not going to be difficult for them this time around. They'll put all of that aside in order to get her through November. After that, let's see what happens. But they'll get her through November. Barack Obama was very gracious about Joe Biden last night. And he actually took time to thank the former president and said nice things about him. I mean, the implicit criticism of Barack Obama is there he is saying, as you just said, let's all come together, which is exactly what he said in 2004. The country is more divided today than it was when he made that speech back in 2004. So

Although that was his aspiration, he hasn't actually managed to deliver it or he didn't during his presidency. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and then come back with a couple of guests from the convention floor. And then we will talk about the rumors that RFK Jr. is dropping out. Stay with us. - With an hour before boarding, there's only one place to go, the Chase Sapphire Lounge by the club. There, you can recharge before the big adventure.

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Okay, so we're standing inside the convention hall and I've just been onto the floor and I have grabbed out Kaylee from the Pennsylvania delegation because Anthony Scaramucci asked to speak to somebody from Pennsylvania. So Kaylee, tell me who you are and what you're doing here. Yeah, my name is Kaylee Werner. I just turned 21 years old. I'm a student at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana, and I'm here to make history. But you're here with the Pennsylvania delegation. I am, born and raised in Pittsburgh. So

What does a delegate from Pennsylvania do at the Chicago Democratic National Convention? What's your role here? Fair question. We actually got to do our role as delegates a few weeks ago when we nominated Vice President Harris and Tim Walz to be on the ballot come November. And now we all get to come together, celebrate, party, and get everyone energized and excited behind this ticket. So you're 21. You must be one of the youngest delegates here. Yes, I am. The youngest, perhaps?

Definitely the youngest in Pennsylvania from what I know. What are you thinking about the change at the top of the ticket? And I know I'm asking this specifically this question to you. As a young person. Exactly. I mean, did you look at Joe Biden and your heart went pitter patter and you thought, wow, this is great? Or did you look at Joe Biden and think, my God, he's older than my great, great grandfather. I need somebody younger. Yeah.

Listen, I've always been a politics junkie, so for me, I was very excited to stand behind that ticket. But a lot of my friends are not addicted to the news the way that I am. So for them, there has been a little bit less excitement around the Democratic Party in the past few months.

But the second this campaign switched up and now Kamala Harris is at the top of our ticket, I have seen incredible amounts of excitement and energized delegates and energized youth behind this ticket. And I think that more than anything, people are just excited to see themselves in a elected

She's not that young. She's my age. She's 60. She's definitely not that young, but she's a woman and she's from minority background. And I think that that resonates with a lot of people, especially a lot of the young women that I know and I'm friends with. And then we also have Tim Walls, whose daughter is my age. By the way, Hope, she's super

cool. I love the video. She's so cool. All the TikTok videos that she does. Oh my gosh, yeah. And I think that it's that kind of thing that's what's pulling my generation back is people like her calling her dad a Midwestern princess. Everybody's jumping onto that trend and loving her, loving the vibe and energy that's being spread right now. So Kaylee, how do you see it

translating into votes and to the Democrats chances in November? Because as you said, a lot of people are not political junkies. Everybody here at the convention is, but there are millions of Americans who have busy lives there. They've got kids, they've got jobs, they're studying in college. They haven't really tuned in yet. How do you think the change at the top of the ticket will actually translate to votes?

Well, when I was growing up, I was raised with a set of values of respecting other people and uplifting people and this sense of community everywhere you go. I didn't learn till much later that that is what politics is all about. And so I've been urging people in my generation to realize that

whatever ticket you're voting for, you're voting on your values and everything that you stand for. So for everyone out there, every average American, it's about us finding ways that we can work towards those values. And whether that's in small ways like getting your neighbor, helping drive your neighbor to the polls so they can cast their ballot for whoever they want, or if

it's in big ways like starting to get out the vote campaign and showing people all about voting rights in the United States and how lucky we are today that we get the opportunity to show up and vote because that's not the way it is in every country and that's not the way it was in America a long time ago when only men could

vote for example white men yeah exactly and so I think that we need to remember our values go back to those and fight all the way through November with that on the top of our brains and then I'm not I have no worries in my brain that Vice President Harris will win this thing when you talk to people about Kamala Harris do you

have a sense that even those who are not politically active will turn out and vote and might not have done for joe biden oh yes oh yes i think it's this excitement and energy that's being brought to youth right now that we just haven't seen in so long people i mean this is gonna be my first time voting in a general election so uh my peers crazy for my peers it's the same way and that's a little bit different for us because uh our first time voting we were looking at i mean

To put it bluntly, two old white men that were our options. And that's not so fun as like a young first time voter to be going out to the ballot box and casting a vote for. And I know that maybe Kamala isn't that young, but it's creating excitement for all of us. So, Kate, is it about her and the kind of atmosphere that there is around her as much as it is about her specific policies? What's what is it that's important to you? I think she has a.

many of the same policies as President Biden did. And that's why I was excited to become a delegate for him and excited to come here and cast my vote for him. I think the difference is that she brings with her an energy, an energy that's contagious and that's going to carry us very far as a Democratic Party. A vibe. A vibe, yes, exactly. I mean, there will be people who will vote just on the basis of a vibe. It's true. Who will not have checked out her economic policies, will not have checked out her positions on fracking, for example, in Pennsylvania. It's true, yes.

She did in the 2020 election say that she opposed fracking. Yes. It's an important issue in the state of Pennsylvania. Very big in Pennsylvania. Would you like to see her reverse herself more forcefully? Do you think Pennsylvanians are happy with the fact that she has said, actually, you know what, I've changed my position on fracking? Does that go far enough to people you speak to? Pennsylvania is a swing state. So we're going to get people who think everything from...

yay fracking to let's get rid of it and everything in between of laws and policies. So I think that there's no answer that she could give that's going to directly affect the way that the Pennsylvanians will vote for her. But what I do think is that she needs to keep up this vibe, this energy, this enthusiasm. And it won't be about voting on one policy in November. It's about voting on every policy combined. And that's basic human rights and decency. Kayleigh, what worries you about this election?

Oh, so much. That's the worst question to ask me. My mom always say that I'm a worry ball. But what I've been getting better at is handing her my worries and getting out there and doing the work that needs to be done and letting her hold them. So I'm trying not to think about that. And I'm trying to continue to motivate and excite my peers and get the work done through November. Do you feel as a young delegate that really your role here is to get other young people out to vote? Is that your biggest asset to the Pennsylvania delegation? Absolutely.

Well, I think that everyone here, their job is to create this excitement while we're at the DNC that we can bring home to our own communities. And within my community, there are 17 of us delegates. And so within those 17 of us, I'm the youngest. My job is to bring this back to all the young people like me who get to vote for the first time. And so that's that's I'm carrying that weight on my shoulders. I have to let you get back into the floor. But here's one more question. Yes. Do you feel you know what Kamala Harris stands for?

Absolutely. And she stands for every human being mattering in this country and abroad. Okay. Kaylee, thank you very much for joining me. Thank you so much. So that was Kaylee from Pennsylvania, Alistair.

I mean, that is what we call... She's got your vote. She's a message machine, that girl. Do you know what I've been really struck by, wandering around the place just talking to people, is that, you know, you talked earlier about, you know, low information people and that sense of there being kind of quite a lot of people who are not well educated, presumably not very articulate and so forth. I am amazed at the articulacy

of the average person that you talk to at this convention. That was exceptional, I thought. She was like, not a single um, not a single ah, not a single pause when you ask some pretty, you know, tricky questions. Just knowing what to say and how to say it, I thought it was really impressive. Anthony? I found you a delegate from Pennsylvania.

Yeah, well, I'm impressed and I'm also impressed at the age of the delegate. And I would also say to you that if you put her at those universities, Pitt, Carnegie Mellon, and you put her around the state, even if you go to Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, University of Pennsylvania, if you get her to speak and you get her to canvass,

she will do phenomenally well in that state. And that is a very weird state. And I think you guys know this, but it's important to just repeat it to viewers and listeners. The left side of the state feels a lot like Ohio. It's industrialized, post-industrial era, steelmaking, the Pittsburgh Steelers. The eastern side of the state is more like the Northeast Corridor, the Amtrak side of the

the state Philadelphia being more liberal, Pittsburgh actually more conservative. The middle of the state, they call it pencil Kentucky because it's really a lot more like Kentucky than it is either of the two ends of the state. So what we did in 2016, David Urban, Alistair's new friend and I, we canvassed that state for 45 days in an ellipse up and down and around the state. And if Vice President Harris does that,

with the help of Governor Shapiro and his offices conjoined with her field offices, she's got a really, really good chance to win the state, but she better have an answer on the fracking. Got to have an answer on the fracking. All of that nice stuff that was just said by that 21-year-old, yeah, that's great, but what is your position now on fracking? And will the Pennsylvanians that need fracking for their lifestyles

Will they support her if she's moderating her position? And then what happens to her with all the environmentalists on her left flank? Okay. I had one more interview as well last night because I bumped into somebody who you like, Anthony, and we did this interview as a little surprise for you. My gift to Anthony Scaramucci, Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. ♪

Senator, the first time I ever interviewed you was back in 2008 at the Democratic Convention for Barack Obama. This convention here in Chicago is now being compared to that one in terms of energy and excitement. Is that how it feels to you? I feel like there's even more energy here. And that's because remember in 2008,

who Barack Obama was running against? John McCain, right? John McCain was a hero of mine. And I obviously supported Barack Obama, Barack Obama, one of our greatest presidents. But John McCain, conservative, stand-up Republican who was a patriot, who served our country in a way I would not...

I mean, in a way that most people can't even understand. As a prisoner of war, as a Navy combat pilot, and then as a U.S. senator, U.S. House member, and then as a U.S. senator, candidate for president. I mean, and that's what 2008 was. And now we're here in 2024. And you have an experienced prosecutor, as an attorney general, U.S. senator, vice president, running against a convicted felon. You can't make this stuff up.

And by the way, this is a guy, what did he do when he was president? He gave a giant tax cut to himself, a billionaire and his billionaire friends. He shredded a bunch of our alliances and sucked up to a bunch of dictators. And then he took away women's reproductive rights. So that's why you have

a lot of this energy. I mean, it's Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, great candidates, great leaders, experience, have a record of accomplishments, both of them. But on the other hand, you almost couldn't come up with somebody that, in my opinion, is the worst candidate. A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed you and I asked you whether you would make a good vice presidential candidate because of your stance on the border.

Do you think that Kamala Harris still has vulnerabilities when it comes to the issue of immigration? You doubt the question, by the way, very elegantly. She gets it. She has already said that if we bring back that bipartisan border security bill, she would sign it. She's worked on this issue. The White House has worked on this issue with me. We've made incredible progress. The numbers, the border crossing numbers are down significantly. Now, here's what's unfortunate.

This stuff really should be done through legislation. And we were so close. But Donald Trump told Republican senators who were about to vote for the legislation that they had to walk away from this. And then what they did is they ran away from it. I have never seen such a hypocritical move in Washington as I did when Donald Trump told them that they couldn't vote for this. I mean, this is Washington, D.C. we're talking about.

This is like the craziest, most hypocritical thing I've ever... There is some hypocrisy in Washington, D.C. But this is like, this is off the... This will go down in the history books as the most hypocritical thing anybody has ever done in serving in public office. To talk about this issue over and over again, and then finally get to the point where we actually have a very reasonable solution that was going to provide more pay for Border Patrol agents. Border Patrol Union supported this. More pay, more Border Patrol agents, more CBP officers, more machines to detect fentanyl.

Think about that for a second. We do not have the funding for those machines because Donald Trump killed it. What that means is more fentanyl now comes across the border. It would have been detected. More people now die of overdoses because Donald Trump told Senate Republicans. Do you think he cares about that? No, I don't think he cares about it. He only cares about himself. He's made this very clear. I've been watching this guy since the 19 early 1980s. He cares about one person.

And that's Donald Trump. He doesn't care about the American people. Kamala Harris cares about families and members of the military who serve, who have, you know, who have paid the ultimate price in service to our country. Donald Trump calls them suckers and losers. Is she going to win Arizona, your state? Yeah. She's going to win Arizona and she's going to win the White House.

Anthony, I know that you wanted Senator Mark Kelly to be the VP pick for Vice President Harris. What did you think of what he said there? I didn't think he actually said anything massively substantive apart from the fact that she felt she wasn't going to be vulnerable on the border. He's on message. He's a good messenger. It's interesting that Alistair agreed with me. He thought he should also be the vice president. I think he would have covered more ground for her

I guess what we don't know is in the vetting process. We never know, you know, did somebody have a tax indiscretion, God forbid, or did somebody pay a...

a non-documented worker to do domestic housekeeping in their house. We don't know. And I'm not saying he did any of those things, but I think he is the right guy because she would have gotten Arizona. He would have helped her so much on that border issue. And he would have helped her in Virginia, guys, because we're loaded up with Navy in Virginia. We're loaded up with veterans, retired veterans in Virginia. He's a naval...

aviator. He's an astronaut. She would have gotten a two-for-one special with him. And I'm not saying that Governor Walz isn't a good guy and isn't a good messenger for her. And I think he plays well. He has better approval ratings than J.D. Vance, although I think this bottle of half-finished water would have better approval ratings than J.D. Vance. But I just think Mark Kelly was a guy that... It was a missed opportunity there, my opinion. I appreciate you bringing him in as a surprise. Plus he's got a twin, an identical twin. You could have had two-for-one. Yeah.

Yeah, I appreciate you bringing him as a surprise guest. You know, I have a lot of respect for him and I know a lot of people in the, what I would call the independent moderate community would identify with his life story. I thought it was interesting what you said about the interview itself is that he had that

You know, sometimes like if you're doing a book tour or an event where you're having to do the same interview again and again and again, I felt he had three or four talking points in his head. And he was going to get them out. But he was effective. But I'd have to say, and if I was one of these kind of floating voters just listening in, I

I'd have been more persuaded by the first interview. By Kayleigh. Me too. In this country, I would nearly always rather interview a voter than an elected official. Which in most countries, you wouldn't say that. They are on message. Elected officials are on message and voters actually talk from their heart. Okay, guys, before we go, what about these rumors that RF Kennedy Jr. is thinking of dropping out of the race and

and endorsing Trump, I don't know. I mean, in a very tight race, of course, every vote makes a difference. He's currently polling in the battleground states at about 3%. He's dropped down from 10%. So he's less of a force in the race today than he would have been a month ago. I spoke to a friend of mine who runs a group called Voto Latino yesterday, who was very excited.

We bumped into Alistair and she had new polls showing that Kennedy was actually pulling more votes from Trump at the moment than he is from Harris. I don't know that it makes a huge amount of difference at this stage, him dropping out. What's your take? Well, I mean, listen, he was funded by Steve Bannon.

And he was funded by the alt-right because they thought that he would take – remember, the alt-right, Bannon is – look, I can't stand him, but he's a smart dude. Trump's got a high floor, low ceiling at 47.5%. Let's fund Jill Stein. Let's fund RFK Jr. Chip away from whoever the Democratic nominee is.

And so if it's not working, and Nicole Shanahan, his vice presidential pick, said on a podcast yesterday that they are thinking about dropping out. And then if they did drop out, they would endorse Trump. So that's all the tells that you need to know. And you don't say that in public unless you're going to do it, because by the time you say that, you're a lame duck.

Republican plant, a little bit of worm eating of the brain, a little bit of dropping off. I mean, he's a bear undertaker, dropping off a bear in Central Park. I mean, it probably killed his chances. What can I...

What can I tell you? Between the worm and the brain, this was a campaign that was on his last legs. If you need worm bait, you have R.F. Gay Jr.'s brain. And if you ever find a dead bear somewhere, call him. He's got his own bear funeral home. I mean, it's what I, you know, if I see a dead bear, it's my instinct is to shove it in the boot of my trunk, in the boot of my car too. Take a few pictures of it first. Yeah, with my finger in his mouth.

Can I just ask you a question? One of the things that's kind of running quite big in the media today is this Middle East plan and

And there's a story running, I don't know where it came from, but it seems to be quite big, that Donald Trump phoned Netanyahu yesterday and said, don't support this because it would be bad for my campaign. Actually, it's a call that was made on August the 14th. Axios has the story. So it was made about a week ago. Okay. Reportedly. Now, in your assessment, I mean, that sounds to me like, well, one, it's a repeat of the border thing of him telling people not to go with the bipartisan plan, but...

That feels like a really, really terrible thing to do. Well, that's a violation of the Logan Act. Am I overstating that? It's potentially illegal. Oh. No, no. It's in contradiction of…

Act that there were back channel deals between the Reagan campaign and the Iranians. All of that has now been documented. And so it was a direct violation of the Logan Act. They've released the hostages on the day of his inauguration. And it was all done on the QT because it was a direct violation of the Logan Act. So I think what's weird about our society now, all of this stuff is happening out in the open.

And so what Trump is doing is he's, I think the rules have always been flouted, Alistair. I just think that they've been quietly flouted as opposed to where we are now today, where they just do it brazenly right out in the open. And remember, this was like a weird thing about the Trump administration. My attorney said to me, are you going to go work for the Trump administration? I said, yes. It was a really stupid idea, but I did it. He said, you got to sell everything. So I

So I began the process of selling everything. Then I got my ass fired and then I stopped selling things. Okay. But all these other guys, they never sold anything. Including Trump. And it was, it was included. Well, Trump didn't have to, he's the only exclusion in the law. Okay. Because they, they had to get Washington in the position and they, and Washington said, I'm not selling Mount Vernon. And so I said, okay, we're going to make an exclusion for the president. So Trump didn't have to sell anything, but the ethics required that everybody else in the room had to sell things. None of them sold anything. And,

nobody went after them. Nobody went after them, not the Department of Justice, not the Ethics Board. And so it's a weird time. Alistair, that is absolute wrong thing to do. But let me tell you something. It's an economic and political interest for Netanyahu not to cut that deal. Why not wait now? Because if he gets Trump, he's going to get more out of Trump. Biden is gone. He has little to no relationship with

Vice President Harris, although coincidentally, on the July 2018 trip, she did have a meeting with him. I don't know how many more meetings she's had subsequent to that, but I just think it's a terrible thing, and I'm glad it was exposed. Netanyahu's office put out a statement in the Times of Israel and denied that this phone call has taken place. Journalists are now trying to ascertain whether that August the 14th

call did take place. The Logan Act, by the way, is a 1799 law which prohibits any unauthorized citizen from negotiating with a foreign power on behalf of the US government, which is why he could, if he did this, it would be in violation. So another crime. Terrible.

actually, potentially, that he could add to his long list of things that he has to do. But you know, you're not hiring Donald Trump to stay within the law, guys. You know, you know at this point he's going to break the law and you're hiring him for other reasons, but one of them is not to be a law abider. We will talk tomorrow.

after Kamala Harris speaks here in Chicago at the DNC, I will force myself to say wait that late, as we all will. And so that's going to be a live stream that we're going to record on YouTube tomorrow night as soon as we can.

After Kamala Harris has finished speaking, look for it around midnight US time. It'll also go on the Trip US feed. So look for The Rest Is Politics US wherever you get your podcasts. Alistair, on that podcast, which you won't be a part of, I will be praising you. I just want to make sure you know that. And we-

Only if it's justified, Anthony. Don't force it. I promise you I will find some justification for otherwise. Alistair, it is always justified. Thank you, guys. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow. See you later. Bye-bye.