22. Did Joe Biden fumble his final speech?
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Hello and welcome to this extra edition, extra special edition of The Rest Is Politics U.S. with me, Katty Kay. And I'm Anthony Scaramucci, admiring Katty Kay's spiral staircase from afar. This is Goldhanger Chicago Bureau, which we've just opened up right in the middle of Fulton Market, the lovely middle of Fulton Market. I love this city. It's great.

And I'm here in Chicago for the week talking to delegates and talking to all of the democratic grandees who are swanning around this city and swanning around the convention center.

And we are coming to you today with an extra episode from the Democratic National Convention where thousands of delegates have descended on Chicago to welcome in Kamala Harris as their party's nominee. Boy, are they giddy with excitement. We'll start by chatting about the convention itself, which kicked off on Monday, what it means, what it does, who all these people are. And then in the second half, we are having a first for the Rest is Politics US. We have an interview with a delegate from Florida,

on the ground at the United Center where the convention is taking place. So, Anthony, should we start by just kind of for our audiences who may not know either, frankly, in the US or around the world, what a convention is and what it does and what

what the point of this huge, big political party is this week. Well, I'll say a few things, and I think you and I have been to several of them. I was obviously 2016 at both the Democratic and the Republican Convention. Back in the day in 2000, I went to the Republican and Democratic Conventions. And people said, well, why were you there? Well, I was hosting things at that time. But I'm in Jackson Hole, Wyoming right now. And so another important thing happening here is the

central banking community is meeting out here in Jackson Hole. And we also have the cryptocurrency events out here. But two quick things that I would just say and then kick it back to you. One, these conventions are media opportunities. And so I want to take you back to the old days where there were newspaper writers and they would go to these conventions, smoke-filled rooms, and they'd write about them. And that's how people would learn about their politicians. And then the radio took over and then television. And so these have always been designed to

to be broad-based media spectacles. Now embedded inside of that, my second point is there's a legal process

or at least inside the rules of each party's process, not legal from a federal level, but there's a process that takes place where the parties pick a nominee to represent them in a campaign. And so a couple of things happen. They have a platform. I think we should talk about the Democratic platform because I read through it last night. And then the delegates come together and they pick their nominee. And this is an interesting time, Katty, because 14 million votes went to Joe Biden. He dropped out.

And these votes were secured. These delegates now were secured by Vice President Harris over the phone. And so this is one of the reasons why she's been so tenuous and reluctant not to do a lot of press, which we talked about last week. So that's the quick summary. Give me your perspective on conventions. Yeah, I've been, this is my, I was figuring it out last night. This is my ninth conference.

party convention. I've been to the Republican and the Democratic conventions in most years. Of course, in 2020, they didn't have a big convention like this. It was all online, which I have to say, I kind of thought was genius and wondered whether we shouldn't just do online conventions forevermore. It's like a very well-produced political party that lasts for four or five days in a city that each party thinks is important.

perhaps to their electoral chances or to their electoral base. And you've got all of these delegates. There are 4,000 delegates who are convening here in Chicago to recognize Kamala Harris as the Democratic nominee and approve the party's platform, as you say. And then a

Around that, you've got some celebrities, John Legend, James Taylor, who was meant to play last night, but then it ran too long. And so they had to pull him at the last minute, which was very embarrassing to the organizers of the convention. And importantly as well is you've got a ton of donors. So I was speaking to a couple of big Democratic donors who are camping out at their Four Seasons and the Ritz, and they have events of their own. And they are brought here by the party as a way of kind of saying thanks, and they put on events for them. So

Everybody who is anybody, along with tons of media from around the world, and everybody who is anybody in kind of democratic circles is in Chicago this week. I think the real aim of this convention, as opposed to any other convention I've been to, and of course, it's a very unusual convention for the reasons you mentioned.

Normally, a convention comes at the end of a whole year of campaigning by that candidate. And the country has seen that candidate in debates, in ads, in interviews, in town halls for a year almost. The campaign starts a year before the convention starts.

This time around, of course, the country's only seen Kamala Harris for, what, four weeks and three days before the convention. And they don't know very much about her. So I think there is a particular urgency about this convention and

and the people I've been speaking to over the last 24 hours since I've been here, to make sure they tell her story and tell it in the way they want it to be told to the American public. They see this as their first big opportunity and perhaps their biggest opportunity apart from the debate

to sell Kamala Harris, to say to the American voters, any who might be skeptical, here you go, we want you to buy Harris. Here's what she stands for. And I think that's what makes this convention a little bit different. There'll be a ceremonial roll call expected to take place at the convention. It's not going to be a formal roll call in the sense of delegates standing up and saying, we cast our ballots.

for Kamala Harris, because as you say, Anthony, that's already happened. She cemented her status as the candidate already earlier in a virtual roll call. That's a little bit of a technicality, but I'm sure there will be a moment in the convention where they will stand up and say, yep, Kamala Harris is our girl, woman, lady, female candidate. Since you're on the ground and I can only watch it from television, how do you think they did last night selling Vice President Harris on the American people?

So I thought the videos were good. I mean, there were nice little vignettes. I didn't hear that much about her bio last night as much as I expected. We heard a little bit about her middle-class upbringing, her parents, and some of those videos were helpful on that. Mostly,

last night was about Joe Biden and the passing of the torch. I think we did hear quite a lot about Joe Biden last night, and we heard quite a lot about abortion rights and various issues. We had a union worker stand up and say that Kamala Harris is very pro-union. I think that last night was the sort of the last of the Joe Biden nights, if you like. And Tuesday through Thursday is going to be very much the Kamala Harris night.

I expect we will hear more about her biography and who she represents and what her kind of core is. And I think for me, the real challenge at the moment is that I don't feel I even really know who Kamala Harris is and what her core is. And it's not just because she's been sequestered as vice president for the last four years and it's not a role that's very public.

It's because right back to 2019 run for the presidency, she was on various sides of various issues. She has never been a candidate who has come up very clearly and consistently with a consistent message. She's not Barack Obama who was, "It's not the blue states, it's not the red states, it's the purple states of America." She's not Joe Biden, the boy from Scranton who represents working class rural voters.

I don't really know what Kamala Harris represents. And I think they will try to fill some of that in this week. It may be that they're not able because it may be that she doesn't fit into a simple box like that. And it may be that it doesn't matter because if they've built enough of a movement, she can defeat Donald Trump anyway. And you know what? All I heard last night is they want to beat Donald Trump. You know, it's interesting. I watched almost all of it. And I'm going to give you a couple of just quick reactions. Number one,

If Hillary Clinton acted the way she acted last night in 2016, she would have been a much more powerful candidate. Oh my God, I agree. She had the best speech of the night last night. She was unplugged. And we talked about this before we clicked on the recording button. She cared less last night.

When she cares more for some reason, she gets buttoned up and she starts to move like a robot and talk like a robot. And she's measuring her sentences. Last night, she just let it rip.

Is this a wise advice to the kids? Kids, care less because you perform better. I think so, actually. I think that when you are unplugged, you come across way more authentic. And when you are trying to size every soundbite and measuring it against, I don't know, whatever you think you're measuring as the mean, you know, she killed herself in a couple of ways as a candidate.

She was a little weather-vainy, okay, just to make up another word because we're known for that in our – part of our brand caddy is to make up words. She was very weather-vainy when she was running for president. Last night, she let the guns fire. She was a little bit like a Yosemite Sam. The gunshots were going everywhere.

And it was a very nice thing to see. I mean, I'm not her media coach or anything like that, but I would say, you know, Secretary Clinton, you know, let loose, you know, be yourself. I bet you she enjoyed that, by the way. I bet you she liked that. But she walked off the stage and said, you know what? That was a good STEM Winder by me. She came up with this great line about

they don't want to keep going, keep fighting, keep working, keep pushing. And it was very forward looking, right? It wasn't, we're not going back. It was the kids want us to keep working for them. The kids want us to keep going. The women who want to get into politics are saying, keep going. And I liked that. It was very active. It was a passing of the torch, but it was part of the movement. And you really, she mentioned Shirley Chisholm, who we've mentioned before on this program, the first black woman who ran for president 50 years ago. And I thought it was a

It was a really lovely acknowledgement of all the people who have come before her, her excitement. I think she is genuinely excited about Kamala Harris running and passing this on to a woman. And I compare that, I'm sorry to say it, to Joe Biden's speech, which...

started too late, went on too long, sounded like a State of the Union address, got into kind of prescription drug policy. He had the opportunity there to give a 15, 20-minute soaring address to the state of America, the country he loves, the kid from Scranton, and pass it on

elegantly and authentically to Kamala Harris, who I think has really behaved like a trooper through all of this because she didn't knife him in the back after that debate. She was loyal. She worked hard to get her ducks in a row if she was going to take over, but she was very careful not to distance herself from him or to say anything against him. And I just felt he really missed an opportunity. I mean, he got a four-minute standing ovation. He was going to get a four-minute standing ovation whether he had stood up and read the bus timetable.

And I know speaking to a couple of campaign people this morning,

they were kind of rolling their eyes and saying the same thing that, you know, it was an hour too long and it was not the speech they thought he was going to give. But I don't know that Joe Biden is capable of giving any other. He gets into the policy weeds and that's the speech he gives. What are you looking forward to on Tuesday night? On tonight, we've got Michelle Obama and Barack Obama, of course, the star of the show, but let's face it, we all know who the real star of the show is going to be tonight. And that's Michelle Obama. Yeah. Listen, again, and I think there'll be,

Very eloquent. I actually know their media coach well. When I was aspiring to host Wall Street Week, I ran into Bill Clinton at a book party. And you'll enjoy this because he spoke at one of my conferences. And so this is before he knew my political stripes. And he looked at me, Caddy, and he said, so what party are you a member of? And I looked at him, I said, well, Mr. President, I'm a member of the Green Party. And then I

took out the green, Katty Kay. I showed him the green. And because I'm a Wall Streeter. We are not talking the German green party. No, no, no. We're talking about the Benjamin Franklin green. And so anyway- Is that one of your sons sneaking in the background? Yes, yes. I like kids in the background. Yeah, he's scampering in the background. Yeah, trying not to be noticed. But anyway, make a long story short, he says to me, I see you on TV, you do a good job on TV. Who's your media coach? And I said, oh, I don't have a media coach.

And he said, oh, you're making such a big mistake. Does Tiger Woods have a golf coach? And I said, yes, Tiger Woods does have a golf coach. And he says, so you need a media coach. So I said, well, Mr. President, who's your media coach? And he gave me the name of his media coach. Of course, I called the guy up and he came to see me and he said, look, as long as you don't run for anything, I can be your media coach because you're a Republican. And so he is my media coach and I haven't seen him in a while, but he's an incredible person.

And so he's the one that came up with, you know, Osama bin Laden is dead and General Motors is alive. And he came up with all these different things.

strong sayings for the Democrats and he's helping the Obamas. And I bet you these two speeches are going to be incredible tonight. But I just want to talk about Joe Biden for a second, if it's okay, because I watched the whole speech. I'm going to say three quick things. Number one, he's human. Am I being harsh? Do you think? No, I think you're being very accurate, which is why people adore your insight. I would say...

Three quick things. So he's human. What a blow. You're losing the presidency. You have a chance to run again, but you're 81. He pointed out when I was 29, I was too young. Now they're saying I'm too old. I felt that for him as a human being and all the frailty of being human. Okay. Number two.

speech was too long, but he didn't care because he wants that boxed up as part of his legacy. Okay. And so you have to let him do that as well. But the third thing I was thinking when he was speaking, he was amped up like the State of the Union, which was a very different approach to the debate. And I'm going to say this to you, Kat, and I want you to react to it because I've been thinking about it all morning. There were 90 minutes in American history that could potentially change American history. And that was that debate. That debate

could potentially finish off two politicians. And let me just explain why. Biden finished by the debate, but if Kamala Harris beats Donald Trump, Donald Trump also finished by that debate. Right. And I couldn't help thinking that while he was speaking. It's like literally that was 90 minutes. If Trump wins, we'll say, okay, it finished off one of the two political leaders. But if they both lose-

Yeah, because Trump would have beaten Biden. And let me tell you something, though, okay? Because Trump's got great political instincts. People get mad at me when I say that, but he does. He is saying it out loud. He's saying the quiet part out loud. Ah, my shit, I never debated. Why did I accept that debate? He'd still be in the race.

You see, he knows that there's trouble creeping. Okay, he's still in this race. You and I both know that. It'll be a very close race. But that 90 minutes could have changed the course of American history and led to the first woman president, the first African-American woman president. It's just interesting how these things work. You've said before in that context,

Anthony, that Trump would hate the idea of losing to Kamala Harris and that if he's behind in the polls, he may even drop out. Is there also though, I was wondering as I was flying up here yesterday, a way in which he hates the idea of not having a chance to run against Joe Biden and win. In a sense, he hates not having a chance to avenge himself. Yes, exactly. Because he knows he lost in 2020. Whatever he says, he knows he lost in 2020. Of course he does.

And the chance of 2024 was a chance to say, I finally beat him. You know, I run against him and I won. And I just wonder whether that's also bothering him. It's just not fair. I had the chance to go after that guy and I had the chance to beat him. They've snatched it away from me. You know, they're slightly kind of putting into the water this idea that it was stolen from them before it's even happened. Well, I agree with everything you just said. I think he definitely is thinking that way.

And I also think they're taking notes. I think they're watching this for what the narrative is going to be for her and how do they parry that narrative. And he released a screed last night on Truth Social that she pulled out of the September 4th debate, which is totally not true, by the way. Which was never agreed, by the way. Never agreed to. She agreed to the September 10th debate. Yeah.

She never agreed to the September 4th debate. I believe she's open to potentially at least one more debate. We'll have to see. But he's hot and bothered. But again, I'm telling people, do not underestimate this man. If you think he's losing this election because we're in the third week in August of 2024, you don't know him. You don't know his operation. You don't know anything.

his approach to things. But I do think he's lost a step. When you and I were talking and saying, it's his election to lose. I think I posted up on Twitter. Yeah, it is his election to lose and he's losing it, but he's lost a step here. There's something missing from his narrative. And I'm wondering if they're being honest with him. Are they telling him, it's a little repetitive. You

You're saying the same thing over and over again. It's a little bit too much of an attack on her personality or attack on who she is. I mean, he put something up on Truth Social. They're going on television and saying it. I mean, some of his former advisors are up on TV saying it quite frankly, whether he's listening or not. By the way, it's interesting. I texted an advisor of his who says that he's not actually watching the DNC. I don't know if that's true or not, but...

the message they want to put out to journalists is that he's not watching the DNC. The staff is all watching and they think that Biden was a little humiliated by being given such a bad time slot. They don't think that the Democrats are going to get a bump out of this. I think that might be wishful thinking. Parties usually get a bump out of their convention, but if he's not watching, that is interesting. I just think that he's going in the wrong places. I'm not even going to

Totally describe what he did on Truth. Some of the stuff he's staying this week is, yeah. It's just despicable. He's attacking her in a way that I think he's going to face blowback from the American electorate. But anyway. And all these AI images they're putting out that are generated that are fake smack a little bit of desperation. I mean, maybe the Harris campaign is going to start doing the same thing. She accepted the entire Biden platform.

to the point where it had Biden's second term throughout the platform. I read the whole thing last night. And I think there's a lot in there for everybody, but I just want to point out to people that listen to our podcast...

That is not 100% her platform. Listen to her speech and listen to what she's going to do in the ensuing weeks after the speech, because I think part of her agreement was we're taking the entire platform. We don't want to embarrass the Biden administration, which I'm a part of. We don't want to embarrass him as the former candidate. So they took the entire thing.

And that was remarkably big of her. She could have revised that platform and she elected not to. And I think it showed the emotional intelligence that Vice President Harris has. Yes. And her understanding that what the party needed after a month of total turmoil and infighting was unity, not disunity.

And party platforms, they're worth something, but most people do not read them. And it's pretty easy to deviate from them once you're in office. At the moment, the priority for the Democrats who are here in Chicago this week is to win. If they win and then they change the party platform, that's fine. If they win and then we find out what kind of president Kamala Harris is going to be, but only after we win, that's kind of fine too.

all they want to do is win. And they're not asking too many questions about what she stands for, what her policies are going to be and what she would do on day one. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. And when you come back,

You'll hear I've changed locations. Last night at the United Center where the convention is being held here in Chicago, I interviewed a wonderful delegate from the sunny state of Florida called Gavin Brown. And he actually was a Kamala Harris voter back in 2019. He supported her in the 2020 election primaries. So we're going to hear from him when we get back.

And Anthony, stick around because I want to hear what you think of what Gavin Brown has to say and get your thoughts on that interview afterwards. I'm looking forward to it. Freshly made ravioli or hand-pulled ramen noodles. When you dine with Chase Sapphire Reserve, either will be amazing because it's the choice between a front row seat at the chef's table while getting a live demo of how to make ravioli or dining family style as you hear the story behind your ramen broth. This weekend, it's ravioli. Next weekend, ramen.

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So we're outside the convention center with Gavin Brown from Florida, the great state of Florida, the Sunshine State, the Sunshine State. Which bit of Florida are you from, Gavin? Central area in between Orlando and Tampa. And you are? I am a delegate elected at the district level 14. Okay. So in the primary, who did you vote for? In the primary, I voted for Biden. And you expected Joe Biden to be your candidate? Yes, I did. And how are you feeling about the fact that he's not? Uh,

I think it really shows his true character and a lot of politicians aren't like that and I think that he really did what he thought was best for the country for us to protect our freedoms and to make sure that we win back the House, hold the Senate and make sure that the other man that I will not name is

does not ever have the ability to step foot in the White House again. Gavin, four weeks ago when this was all still kind of blowing up and you were planning to come here to Chicago to the United Center for the Convention, did you have any conception that this is what could happen? I actually kind of thought maybe...

After Memorial Day, I kind of gave it up to Memorial Day because you know how the polls change. The end of May. Yeah, the end of May. And then we hit the summer months and it just kind of seemed like it was either stuck or just not moving in a more positive direction. And I worried about whether, you know, I think Joe is a great man. I think he's done a great job as president. And it has nothing to do with that or...

that I think that he has not done a great job or could still continue to do a good job. But sometimes negative narratives just stick with candidates on both sides and it's hard to shake. When you watched the debate back on June the 27th, which now seems like, oh my God, it seems like a lifetime ago.

Did your heart sink? Did you think, we don't have the right candidate? Or do you think he can still do it, I want him to stay in? When I first watched, because I actually was at some event or something, and I DVR'd it, and I went back and watched it, and I didn't pay attention to any text messages I was getting or anything, because I wanted to form my own opinion on it. And I thought, wow, well, he...

kind of bombed. And, but I thought that about Barack Obama against Mitt Romney in the first debate. And it's kind of the curse of the first debate with sitting presidents because they feel like they don't have to put in as much prep or be ready.

So at first I kind of thought, okay, well maybe we can make up for this. But then I thought, but this isn't a normal type of election. And if the other guy doesn't want to debate President Biden after that, and that's the last time we'll see that debate, that concerned me. And so that kind of played into the idea of it for me. And when he dropped out,

Did you want to come to Chicago and have like an open convention with a real competition and all the candidates up there? Or did you very quickly decide, no, you wanted to have a candidate fast? Oh, I thought a fast candidate, I think a drawn out convention, you would not have seen the enthusiasm. You would have seen chaos, just like...

it has never worked before. So who's to say it's going to work now. Um, but also too, in 2020, I initially supported Kamala in the primary. You were,

Kamala's supportive. And then when she dropped out, I immediately jumped to Joe. So it was kind of a twofer because then I got Kamala as the VP. So I got two for one. So what was it about Kamala Harris back in 2020 when she had that, let's face it, pretty bad run for the presidency that made you think you like her? I think her announcement speech and...

What was it about the announcement speech? I think that it was a very large crowd, but it was also coming off of women doing very well in the midterms in 2018 after 2016. I went to DC for the Women's March, and I felt the enthusiasm with women. And I thought, you know what?

We came close to breaking that glass ceiling for women and I saw that she could do it and I thought, you know, I think that we need energy, enthusiasm. I love Joe, but you know what he also brought to the table was his experience and that was

partially why Obama picked him. I was actually okay with either of them. And I thought we had a really great field of candidates at that time. How would you describe Kamala Harris on the political spectrum within the Democratic Party? Where do you place her? I would place her moderate leaning left. I wouldn't say...

far left, you know, on that side. But I would say that she certainly has a moderate with a slight left tint to it. Is that what you are? Yes. Well, actually, I'm more moderate, pretty middle centrist. You're a Floridian. I have to be if I'm a Floridian right now. But, you know, I think that, you know, I like middle ground. And I think in this country especially, you know,

People are sick in both parties of the far left and the far right shouting at each other and getting nothing done and I would rather get 70% of something than zero. Yeah, and that's just kind of how I feel. So Gavin we're recording this beginning of the convention It's clear that you know, you could just walk through the hall. You feel a lot of energy What do you want this convention to achieve?

for those voters who have not yet made their minds up about which way to vote in November? I would say, to sum it up, dictatorship or democracy. That's what's at stake in this election. Pay attention. Don't listen to your parents or grandparents, you know, who are shouting at TVs day in, day out. Do your own homework and look at the issues that you care about and fact-check.

don't just listen to pundits on both sides that just have their own opinions to put on you. But this is, and I know every four years it's exhausting to hear, this is the most important presidential election we'll be voting in. But it really is. Because there is a lot at stake in this country. And I...

Like you said, with the enthusiasm in the hall, I have not, and I've been to conventions before, I have not seen the type of enthusiasm. And this is night one. And you got to realize, you know, we were stuck on buses for a couple hours because of traffic and everything. But everybody seems fired up. And, you know, even in Florida, it's,

About a month ago, it looked pretty dreary for the Democrats to be able to carry the state. Do you think Democrats have a chance of carrying Florida? I think that we have moved up significantly. Have you been drinking, Gavin? No, I actually haven't. But no, I think that before in Florida...

And I didn't think we were going to win Florida in 2020. Right. But we only lost by three. Right. And at that time, the state party, there was a lot of dysfunction in the state party in terms of resources going to places. I'm not saying we're going to win Florida, but I do think it will get closer than when it was showing 10 points a month ago. Okay. I'm going to let you go. Okay. Back onto the convention floor. Yes.

One last message to Joe Biden tonight. We love you, Joe, just as Kamala would say. Thank you so much for your service to our country. And thank you for showing what integrity and what really caring about the people means, not just yourself and making progress.

a self-sacrifice that I'm sure is hard to make after all this has been everything he's known his whole life, but he did it for the American people. And that's why we love Joe. Thank you. Thank you, Gavin. Thank you for having me, Katty. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.

So that was Gavin Brown from, of course, the Republican voting state of Florida. And I kind of wish that all voters and perhaps all politicians were as sensible as he is. Well, I have to ask this first obvious question. Am I rubbing off on you a little bit? Because that was such an American question. Are you drinking? Is that what you asked again?

I mean, it's like unbelievable. Is that a British thing to do, to ask somebody that? I could have asked him, are you smoking something? Because the idea that they're going to win Florida. I mean, unless this is a blowout election. No, I mean, he's obviously drinking or smoking something. They're not winning Florida. They are not winning Florida, no. They are not winning Florida. But what did you think of him? I was very impressed with the question. I thought what was interesting was how...

He projected onto Kamala Harris in a way what he wanted to project onto her. He is a centrist Democrat who's clearly in the sort of more fiscally conservative, socially liberal mold of Democrat. And who did he go for in 2020? Went for Kamala Harris. So this idea that Kamala Harris is kind of to the left of Karl Marx or Lenin or Stalin, that clearly is not what Gavin Brown thought. But listen, but she's also definitely not that because of her

life in Silicon Valley and you can look at her record. She's definitely not that no matter how they try to paint her that way. But there were three things that I heard and I want to share them with you quickly. One is we used to be in a rules-based system for these candidates. And what I mean by that is, did President Clinton smoke pot? Well, obviously he did at Oxford, but he said, no, I didn't inhale, right? That was the world that we came from, right? Or- Yeah, I never understood that. What's the point of smoking pot and not inhaling pot?

But anyway, well, he was just he was trying to have a distinction that, you know, he wasn't guilty. He didn't cross the Rubicon with pot smoking. Sort of a weird thing. The other the other thing, you know, Zoe Baird, I don't know if you remember her, but she got tagged with the undocumented worker. She was supposed to be his attorney general. So so 30 years ago, very rules based, very rigid. And here's this young man, very fluid.

And if the rules have to change, I'm good with it. And the thing that he said that impressed me the most was don't listen to your parents. Okay. Don't listen to your grandparents who are throwing things at the TV and

Just go do the homework and go vote. And by the way, more than that, Anthony, did you hear him? He said, listen to people from both sides. He said, don't just stick with pundits from one side of the argument. He was arguing for people to get a range of political diet here. No question. And I enjoy it. First of all, you're a phenomenal interviewer.

You are becoming a little bit American. We can talk about that. Okay, are you drunk or smoking something? I mean, it's quite brilliant. You need to stay posh. Stay posh. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But then again, when you're not posh, I don't know, maybe that's better. That's like Hillary Clinton giving the stem winding speech last night. Maybe a little less posh maybe works. I'm going to call you up after this and we'll do a little media consulting. Yes, if you do the exact opposite of my say, your stock will continue to rise. But

But here's something that I thought of while he was speaking. And it's sort of a weird thing to think of while he's speaking because he was such a common sense guy. But these two people, Biden and Harris, are the Dr. Frankenstein for them is Barack Obama. Because Obama picked him, as Gavin pointed out, he picked Biden for his experience. He needed somebody to help him with those types of voters demographically.

And if Biden is not picked by Barack Obama, he does not become president in 2020. And Biden picks Harris. I do know how improbable this is. She doesn't do super well in the 2020 primary, but she is his vice president and he picks her and she effectively becomes a presumptive nominee. And so what Gavin was talking to you, that's what I thought of. I said, wow.

kid's very bright. And Barack Obama is going to be speaking tonight. Without him, there's no President Biden. And there's going to be potentially a President Harris. But again, without Barack Obama, that doesn't happen. There's also potentially no President Trump either.

which we could get into on another podcast. Okay. We'll be back tomorrow with more of the rest is politics us. And I think I'm going to go back to the convention floor this evening, Anthony, and try and speak to some more delegates. Cause I love hearing from people around the country. Is there a state you'd like to hear from? Is there a state I'd like to hear from? Pennsylvania. Okay. Okay.

We'll try and find a delegate from Pennsylvania. My dad is originally from that state, and I think that state is the linchpin of this election, me personally, when I look at that map. Great. I'll try and find a delegate from Pennsylvania. And of course, we'll be joined tomorrow for a special edition by Alistair Campbell, who's here as well. So the rest is Politics UK and the rest is Politics US are going to team up in Chicago and bring you some extra content on Wednesday. So listen to that too. Until then, thanks for listening. And thank you. See you soon.