The government's plan to break up Google
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Hold one in her chest, the flagship podcast of our brothers and who on them? Where to go? What happens if no one knowns any of them? Seems like a likely outcoming here. I'm for new idea.

Appears this here to proser wards are just the end of web brosses.

I love this. This is great. What if we do? Yeah, learn finance. Hey, learn.

hey.

There is a lot of news, a lot of what I would call laun finer news this week.

Unfortunately for the lawn, finer every week .

is that lately the dog has put forth its proposal for what to do about google anti trust in search, which involves potentially selling crime. Uh, who was reacted to this? There are more anti re lawsuits.

Apple is trying to get out of out of its anti trust lawsuit. Uh, there sponsored A I chaos or some gadget we have to lightning around. I want you to hear the excitement in my voice like going around. You know, it's coming. It's it's going to be good.

I also have some personal news. Can I say you my personal news? What's I bought an m four mac mini IT is glorious, liam.

Our producers can to test to the number of times I have slacked him over the last two weeks being like like i'm going to do IT talk me out of IT um and he keeps not talking me out of IT. And so this morning I opened up so many brothers windows by accident that I got very frustrated with my computer. And so I went to the apple.

Sorry, let me just pull apart a few themes, few core verge cast themes here. David, who had an m one mac money on what he mostly does this, uh, which was fine. I was fine, right? IT was like a horrific computer, right? And you bought a new computer that is vastly faster than what you need.

Because after years of insisting, eight gigs of RAM was enough. You remember ing your computer slowdown, so you went in board an entirely new computer to get eight gigs more. Rim.

okay, I have several responses. Ah, thank you for bringing this my attention. And he gives the memory is fine if you are a regular person. new.

no. M one mac money was not slow for this purpose. In no way, shape.

perform should other people make computer purchasing decisions based on how I use. Like no one, the only person in my life I met who is worse about brother tabs that I am, is addy Robert set down next to me last week, and I went, oh my god, that's so many right?

Addie is smart and good about computers. And pride bought a computer. Sixteen giggs RAM whether you are like most Normal D X, I David pierce tab assessing gonna buy a few few gigs of and unnecessarily by you.

And you choose between being good at life and having a powerful computer. I pick powerful .

computer like now fused to good T, V.

yeah. I know that I still feel good about.

So it's a mess i'm proud of you once the coming.

Thank you. It's here. I'm on I right now.

Oh, you look great if you're like, gosh, dated is so much smarter and more attractive than he usually is on the bird cast. This is IT. We did that.

So, I mean, I ve spent a lot of time thinking about I, an informed many, but to do that I have to convert one of my old IMAX into a monitor, which more and more people I will say out there are are talking about, oh ah, I wouldn't say doing right. But now that i've opened the door to, hey, what if we all broke hacks trying to turn monitors more, more, more people like, will you do at first so that I can see if that works?

We've definitely successful. Ly made the business case for our roving R V, in which we will do this process for you. Ah is ready.

I will drive your house in a van and break your all the computer. That is the only process I will make the listeners of the verge gst. Some of you will come out of IT with a monitor.

Most of you will not. About the friends we made along the way where we spend time together in event. Yes, that is a good. I just say when I was a child, my father owned not one but two different conversion vans ah they were great. And I think they should come back as a market. In the specific market i'm proposing is the back of the van is where we hang out and play video games in the front of the then is where I break .

your real dim c or I like that.

Do you see him then instead of captains shares, like a little lab situation. And the back is like couches, a good TV. David, some game councils, i'm not sure this is going to work in most, see the prize, get me arrested because i'll be driving around like I like to break your computer and play first.

Transparency that is that gets everywhere and will make content about IT and be huge on tiktok, and it'll be fine.

That's finally, finally, a business model media that makes me right. We should get into the news. There's a lot to talk about laun.

Let's start with A D, O, J in google. Just hit lay some foundation for folks. I want to talk about the the proposal this week. They're multiple and I trust lost its against google.

And actually I find IT quite difficult to keep them all apart because it's not clear how all of the things that happen will ultimately play out and make a new google. And then on top, there's a new president in a new administration in a new atterley general, although my gates dropped out like minutes before we started recording. So I do you know who the attorney generals to be. Um but there's the one we're talking about today, which was the google pays apple money for search default in safari. Google was found guilty of having a monopoly in search and the remedies at this there is another case which is what advertising right .

learn yeah the ad tech industry and that one is going to closing arguments on monday back in alex, Andrea, Virginia. And that's all about google, how google connects publishers and advertisers through its tech.

That wants much a one, yes, but also maybe the more important one.

because it's the money. Yeah, exactly.

So I just want to like, start there. There's a lot of activity around google business and how IT all works together. And the reason start there is all of that flush to crime, right at the end of the day.

And google's attack is worthless and must do our web browsers that show you a heads. And google has the biggest one. And at the end of the day, the reasons paint for a default in other brothers, uh, is because I can't run crime on the iphone.

So IT just pays apple to do what he does on the desktop in crime so that I just wanted lay all that up like there's a lot of swirling activity on google and we're facing down this proposal inside of one case, but i'm not sure how that will affect the other case and we won't know because it's just a closing arguments. Oh, and then this my way, this trial, there's so much it's so confusing. This trial is not even over this, just a proposal. And then there's only another trial to debate this proposal.

right? right. So I mean, I just to give you a sense of kind of the timeout of both of these cases here, like the attack case is going to closing arguments on monday and then we go um then we might get a decision in that case by like the end of the year um and then that goes to the remedy y's phase if the judge says that google is a man of st in that case and then we'll have to schedule that.

And then in April, we have the remedies ed trial in the search case in dc. So and then after all of that, you know we we know google wants to appeal the search case and I imagine whoever loses in that test case are gonna to appeal there. So this is not happening very soon.

yes, but so it's it's just a mess because i've seen people react to the news today, a chrome is google gonna have to sell crime and that's just not where we are. It's this government is currently composed in the bite. Administration is put forward this proposal.

Many things will happen, including the inauguration, Donald truth and whoever his attorney general is being confirmed in up and then further trials in April. So I just that's the foundation. So where I talk about this because the ideas are really interesting, but I I just want people to know like nothing is happening, like we're a long way from here to there to talk about this proposal. So the justice problem could .

not this proposal, what's in IT? yeah. So the proposal that the dr. j. Put out is their kind of initial proposed final judgment.

So this is you know them saying to the judge, this is what we want you to do um this is what we want you to tell google that they have to do um in order to restore competition to the online search market um and so basically, you know they're filed a kind of high level version of this um not that long ago and IT was out of like here's what we're kinds thinking about and you we're looking at chrome. We're looking at android. We're looking at all these other things.

This is like the more concrete version of that where they're saying this is what we intend to ask for in this trial um and you know they are going to get to go through a whole discovery process around this too. Um so now we can see that they are saying that they feel strongly that google must divest chrome um is not just an option that's on the table. They think that this is a critical access point for google search that needs to be separated from the company.

And then on top of that, they also considered divesting um having google divest android, but they're kind of, I guess, holding their fire on that for now, but they're leaving in on the table. So it's kind of an incentive for google to comply with. The rest of the remedy is that they're proposing and it's also know something that they can turn to if they say, know what these other remedy aren't actually working to restore competition .

are pretty deliberately hanging that over google's head. They're like you can do all of these other hugely consequently things that you've only begun to this, which is insane. Uh but if you don't do them like the big gun is we will take away it's just like this looming threat throughout higher filing.

Yeah and I think what really comes through in this filing is that you know the D O J really wants to have you know as many options that I can have available to to them on the table. You know they don't don't want to end up in a situation where you know some of the remedies they proposed don't work or you know the landscape change such that none of these things really matter anymore, because we know this is gonna take years, and we know that a is be going to become a very important part of search. So they are clearly trying to be very deliberate and making sure that anything they asked the judge to impose isn't something that's gonna be absolute tomorrow.

So chrome is, I think the highlight by far. It's the easiest one for people to understand. The blooming thread of we will take ander away from you, I think also prety easy to understand. And there is a bunch of other stuff in here ah which also seem to dramatic dici impact for but maybe a little bit more of he can you go .

through yeah sure. So I guess just some of the most important ones that comes to mind, you know, going back to how this case began, it's really about contracts. Won't you boil IT down to IT?

Um and um these contracts are contracts that google has with phones maker and browser makers to be the default are trenching on those platforms. And um the D J basically wants to say, I google can't enter into certain exclusionary agreements with um those kinds of companies. They can exchange something of value um for like preferred placement or for boxing arrivals from those those kind of platforms. Um and so you know that's kind of like the most straight forward thing that they're asking for.

and that's kind of what we thought this would boil down to, right? Like like we've been for months that the easiest answer to wear what this go is just the government is going to say you are not allowed to make these deals anymore, period the end, goodbye and IT seems like everyone is prepared for that to be an outcome here.

totally. I mean, that seems pretty baseline. It's pretty much like exactly what was in the complainant and exactly what the judge ruled was um some of their anti competitive behavior or so that seems pretty cotton dry.

Um but at the same time, you know okay, sure like google could stop doing these agreements and then they could figure out another way to be the default or to um you know just maintain their dominance in this area. So I think da j clearly thinks like that's not enough. That just kind of like stops the bleeding.

Yeah and it's the flip side of that that really gets me reading through this filing that uh like this whole thing is so much more punishing of google than I expected IT to be.

And like lab I seen there, there is a real thing they're doing in this finding where they are saying, okay, not only do we have to prevent google from doing these monopolist, we have to take aggressive steps to unwind all of the things that google has been doing and delete IT has built over the last fifteen years like a huge portion of this is just them saying we need to break google in half and give everybody of every advantage the google has had in order for them to catch up. right? I get my and I over reading that part.

No, I think that's fair. I mean, I think a lot of anti trust, this kind of backward looking by nature. And I think you know often you hear companies say like you know we are not even doing this anymore, like this is on the past and like that might be true, but IT doesn't make IT doesn't mean that their conduct wasn't anti competitive or that they can still be held accountable for IT.

So um and I think you know the D O J kind of often talked about and trial how there was this um self reinforcing cycle of google um is a good search engines. So then people come to IT and they put inquiries and then google get data and then IT uses that data to make the surgeon Better and no one else has access to that whole cycle. And so I think they really feel like they need to break that cycle somehow for anyone else to even stand a chance.

And the way the D O J is doing that basically seems like he just wants to open source google. Now it's basically like. All of your query y data, your whole search in next your the inflation people give you in youtube searches all this up across all of your surfaces, which is like the internet IT should be made available that what's the phrase that keep using at marginal cost just to everyone, anyone, anyone who wants to run a thing that looks and works like google should be allowed to, is essentially the the vibe of what's coming here. And that, to me, is the part that surprise me the most, like they're just like everything that has made google special and successful. You have to give IT everybody else for free now, just so they can catch up wild.

The thing that really strikes me about this is if you just take a face value, I don't know how google makes any money after this, right? And then there's the attack case right next to IT, which who knows how that will go, but it's that's also a case about contracts and pressure. And I just keep the sense that IT is more likely than not that google will face some penalty in that case as well.

So who knows? But this part where you're like you have to stop referencing google search on youtube and that other people search youtube the way that google can show youtube. Youtube is a closed platform.

Yeah.

I guess I think that's that's a completely fair point. But I also wouldn't cry too many years for google because I think they will be able to make money off of you know selling access to these apps or you know to their index and to their search results in click query data um and they'll also be able to you know they're still gonna be this like amazing huge company full of great engineers um and be able to create a product that's really attractive to people in search.

So why just they are currently an amazing company for the great engineers and they're really too lunch great products that scales to know there's a grayer for a reason. Yeah.

they had a good run back.

And I like a lot of google. You can trace a bt effet that they have a monopoly in search just as of cash and everything else is like wo whatever we tried messaging apps you like. And this might make a Better and might make a work.

There's just a part of this where half of me says this is an negotiation. So just put forward the most intense first offer that you can make, which is we're going to break your business in half. And also, if you don't like, it'll take android to and then able to see where we come back to you from there.

And then there's a party minute says, you know we we just find a few minutes talking about breaking up and cool search in the first part of this offer is we're going na take chrome away from you, right? It's like, oh, this is a complete restructuring of like at every level. What we're saying is there should be a search engine that is almost like utility for other people to build search product on top of.

And other parts of google, like youtube, need to let other search products come into there. And we are basic going to take a close platform in youtube making a more open one, which is really interesting. And then there's we're going to take this browser away, which is the window to almost entire ecosystem and someone else will have to buy IT, which will accomplish what, right? And there's just those are two pretty different ideas from what I can tell, like you're basically telling google you have to be a search and company now and we're going to prescribe how that searching and company works.

And then you're saying we are gonna a browser company that someone else buy. And the number one way browser companies make money is my betting kid for default search, which we will no longer allow you to do. And I i'm just trying to puzzle that through .

yeah yeah I mean, there is no doubt this is you know a huge swing by the D R. J. And um you know they might not get everything they want.

And like you said, this is a negotiation. This is their starting point. They are asking for a lot here um and it's gonna up to the judge to figure out, you know what is really necessary to restore competition here.

And you know courts really don't like to be um you know playing babysitter or you know we structuring like playing the um just really being the hand of god in the market. You know they are not trying to dictate how the business go is they're just trying to restore competition to this market generally. So I think the more that IT gets into things that um are about picking winners and losers um the more the judge is going to be um skeptical and perhaps restrained on these things. So I think IT really depends on how well the government makes the case in court for why these sorts of things are necessary.

And when I ve talked to a johnnson counter, who is the assistant trading general for any question leading this case, a you going to listen to one code or his point is these consent decrees where we make companies promise to behave, and then we have to, like, watch them and go to court when they misbehave. Don't work because everyone is smart and they can get around IT.

And what we want is big structural, like you break up the company that's clean, like then it's over when you and see what happens next. And I I think courts didn't agree with that because courts the only humility that our visual system shows like I shouldn't run your business. And I think I can tell that humility releasing this or what IT is, but that's usually how they respond to that idea of like ongoing compliance, like the court don't want to be in that business.

I just think like at the at the end of this, you look at the amount of change that would be imposed on google and IT sure google will have its opinions. I can't walk her, the chief legal officer put out. You can tell if he's writing directly to Donald trump. P, he's like, this is a radical, interventionist agenda that .

will harm amErica like .

it's pretty so audience of one god goals in a protracting. This what happens in the trial, right? Because there's the remedies is trial and this is the proposal of the trial and they just, and I was like, gna sit down and be like, this is a bad idea. Do you like, show proof I got this is work yeah.

I mean, my understating is there's another discovery process. They get to call and witnesses. So it's gonna kind like the first trial but this time they kind of to take as a given that the judge found that google google hide and illegal monopoly ly, and they're just talking about what is reasonable to impose google or not. Um so yeah, it's definitely it's going to be a fight here.

What strange to me about this one is IT feels like either of the options that the D O J is presenting here would make sense, right? I think force google to spin off android and chrome into a own company, I think is is I you can see a world in which that makes sense. Both of those are search businesses, I would point out.

But like there are people who have made a lot of money selling Operating systems, right? Like I you can see that there's there's a thing there, somebody would spin up and absorb, be a whole thing, short, great, fine, or force google to essentially White label its search engine and make IT available to everybody, right? So now if I wanted run surge engine, all I have to do is compete with google on user experience, right there.

There is an assumption of like, common infrastructure that whatever I search for is going to be as good no matter where I search for IT, let people compete on top of that. I actually think that could be super interesting. And suddenly you have a bunch of people, a bunch of different ideas about our search could work A I becomes really interesting on all of that.

And then it's like, okay, the the foundation of how we search is common. Let's compete for real. I don't understand how you can do both of these things because each one makes the other one worse, right? Like google's weight level search engine will be Better if google controlled is android chrome, because it'll get that day that IT is then forced to share with everybody else.

I feel like I like required sigh to point out at every time you make this claim, like some google park person leaves out of the bush is like we don't use crime, looked the informer and that is what they .

say every time yeah. And that continues to be provably not true.

Say, sure. Like I said, I feel required because I believe that .

things come up in court and in discovery more than in the P. R details.

In my inx outside the David house, I got a google P. R. Peering through the bush. But .

like, if the goal was to build the best search infrastructure for the whole, you do that right? And like that how you get the user data, it's how you get the query data like on and on on these things can actually reinforce each other in a way that would make the one product Better if they were together and then you're giving that product to everybody else.

I can see a role in which that makes sense, but instead, you're saying we're going to make google search engine and worse and also take a way it's engine to make a Better and then force google to give its worst search engine to everybody. So what are what are we ask? We're just making the whole search market.

And I always thought that the whole point of this at the end of the day was who can build anything to compete with google? And there is only one answer, which is apple and google has been spending billions of dollars a year to make sure that doesn't happen. And really the the outcome you want is apple build to search engine because IT has enough incoming click data inquiry data from safari on the iphone.

IT has the compute capability. IT has the money. But but just for free, you know they should have done instead of chasing a car as they should have built a search engine and they didn't because google just paid the money to waste on a car.

Like it's a weird economic outcome, but this doesn't seem like IT creates that outcome at all, right? You're you're gna prevent google from paying apple and then you're going to spin off crime. Then you're going to say everybody can just use the google utility version of search, which apple will just use at marginal cost.

And it's like what we did, we didn't build. We didn't make anybody build new search. And maybe you're respect on A I like I is this all just that's coming and can change everything?

I think the license thing actually does get you closer to that because. You know if apple, and if you know really any other search engine that wants to is licensing the google search results in click inquiry data. They really have a jump star on creating a very quality surch engine.

And you know if apple combines that with their own data and own engineering of product, you know I think they then you're much closer to a very good product from apple. And they're not they're no longer constrained by know if the judge decides to grant the the contract remedies here. There are no longer constrained by their contract with google yeah I mean.

if this goes a certain way, you basically get to the point where I as a developer, all I have to do is right, a pretty front end and do like three A P I calls and I have a google level quality search like, yeah, that's pretty compelling.

All of a sudden, doctor go can reliably say we're doing the privacy thing correctly and also our results or exactly as good, if not exactly the same as what you get from google and other people can compete on the A, I stuff. You can compete on interface, right? The the moves become really different because what you're saying is not, uh, we can't compete with google in order to have results, quality and because that is a fly whil that we have no access to.

I mean, this is I just keep coming back to stock in L A. The microsoft o sitting in the court room basically explaining why being is worst in google and why it's completely insurmountable. And everything in this finding makes me think that that is sitting in the heads of both judge meta and the D O.

J in particular. And they're like, what we are going to do is just give that fly wheel to anyone who want that exactly. And like, be. And if that works, you get a million interesting search and really fast. I think IT would decimate google, the google consequence.

And outside your house, I can see them in the window. We're hold the emphasize said or microsoft could have made windows good.

There's also that there is also that.

uh, these arguments are hard, like they are hard and and mysql has mostly failed, competing with google on search and even microsoft S A I work is not really meaningfully move the needle. So I do see the argument that you you got to break this weight open, otherwise you're going to end up in the same kind of apple, google do up kind of define the last era of computing into whatever this next era is yeah. The other argument is A I comes to nothing, this is all.

And that google is Better at this because it's Better at this, not because it's somehow structurally impossible to compute.

right? I think I mean two things. One is that I think I would result in a world where you're competing more on the product and the wrapping and the extra bells and whistles around search um if everyone has access to the same kind of underlying data.

And the second thing is that you know most of these remedies is the behavioral remedy is the things about licensing. And that kind of thing um would be enforced for ten years. So it's not forever, but it's long enough that the dr. J feels that you know I would be able to create some sort of dynamic shift in the market.

Yeah, see, I look at ten years and i'm like ten years as an eternity. Yeah, think ten years. This is.

And there, what was that? After five years, if google market share was less than fifty percent of search, they could petition to have the stuff called IT like that's what we're asking for her, right? Like google, which has been somewhere between like eighty five and eighty five percent of search for forever. They're like nor no, we would like you to be less than fifty. And we will consider this to be a competitive market again.

So I want to talk about the politics of that timeless specifically. But first, I just want to play a quick game. It's called who can buy crime one, apple. Anyone like to .

blazon and amazon.

But wouldn't the deal today not like IT if amazon or meta or microsoft or apple pot, didn't we just recreate .

the problem?

Yeah yeah I mean I think it's possible that they say what these are, you know different business lines and its not in but .

you don't think I was on so proud er is a competition yeah I mean.

that's the problem they're na run into here. And I think that that that is an issue for that remedy. And I think on top of that, it's like, okay, well, what if this other theoretical big tech company that buys crime then decides that they want to make a search engine and then are we back in the same place, just like under a different company name?

Yeah mean they are being to run around is what twenty billion dollars the number of companies that could spend that on a web browser with, like you said earlier, in like no inherent business model like it's it's so important to to underline the fact that a web brows er on its own is not a business. There is just no evidence that you can build a web brows er that will be a business .

at any score judge from arc and a brother er company and and they just put IT IT away for making a web zer.

You can't do IT. You certainly can't do IT to make a twenty billion dollar acquisition.

S that's the number that google is paying apple just to be falling.

但是 的 yeah I saw somebody say just take over chrome， get the same deals because you'll be allowed to uh and it's the greatest .

private equity arborous opportunity in history. You don't do it's very easy. Yeah but I but google won't be you want to make those deals. So you're already you're just like Operating very much behind, right? I think for me, the more we talk about IT, just even in the past half an hour here, IT feels like cho is a sideshow. We're going to train all of our attention.

Are you what whether not you can you should sell them, or who you can sell out to? And the D, O, J will take, will give you up so that google can make these deals, and that google has to be this like, weird kind of utility. Anybody can do IT like that feels like part of the negotiation here.

Maybe i'm wrong. I I have no inside. Just as we talk about IT IT just seems so IT IT feels I have accomplished so little in the end versus actually opened up the search tension.

I think this is a weird case where, you know, generally structural remedies or break up are thought to be like cleaner and easier. And you know the court can just say, ra, let's like several this and then we're done. We could wipe our hands of IT.

But it's complicated in this case because who's going to buy chrome? And you know how does that look? There's a lot of questions there. Whether the behavioral remedies are often thought of as are at this requires more oversight by the court. This is like a little bit harder to execute. Um but in this case, IT does seem to get at the heart of what the D O J had argued in the case was the problem and was the reason that other search engine couldn't catch up um and so I think we might I could see the logic of you know why they might tend toward more behavior remedy here.

Yeah I mean, it's like negotiation to one right to go in with something like this that you know you're .

willing to give up uh and you will be the C E O of just google duo. You to have what do you want to give me in return, right?

Yeah, you ve got to have the one thing that you're willing to part with, just in the name .

of seeing of ideas. Already.

they already did taps google axis, perfect on tech.

I wonder if they would make IT so that they do something similar like they're proposing with android. Words like I, fine, we don't have to spin out crime, but you know what? Hang IT over your head. You don't complain.

Everything else I feel like you have to. Crime is such a big shiny distraction from all of this other stuff, right? The marginal cost access to the google search index is also a degree to that company's business.

Yeah, those are the things like like you're saying, laugh that actually get to the trial that we had the last year, right? The crown thing, I think, came out of left field for a lot of people because IT IT just doesn't address the stuff. Today's end months in court arguing about IT is you can sort of get there from chrome, but all of these arguments were about like the the structural system that makes the underlying infrastructure of google search unstable and and all all the rest of the stuff in the filing is like poking at how appeal that apart and then there's chrome .

yeah I think I mean, another aspect of the trial was like where are you able to access search? And chrome and web browsers generally are one of the big access point to you either access search through your browser or your phone, basically. So um I think the thing with chrome is that it's the one would like entity and android, there are the one entity that google actually owns. Like the court can impose a remedy on another company, IT can impose a remedy on apple or same sung.

Yes, I went.

But I can impose a remedy on google to say, are IT, at least for this one browser that you own, you can use that in a self referencing way.

yeah. So I do want to politics. Good way. So we've been comparing this case in the apple case to the microsoft case in the nineties for sometimes sce, they started basically and IT strikes me even the timeline here in the politics of the timing are the same. So mr.

Soft case in the nineties are one thousand nine hundred and eight under bill clin, the D L, J. One they pursue to break up. George bush get selected in, the D, O J says, and I want a sell case, and there's some like winding back and force in there.

But there was a moment when micros t was gonna get broken up. And then there was a moment when the oj said we're done with that. We even do these big consent created, you find.

And all that was chaos, right? And the executives of microsoft were there that time, we'll tell you, super distracting. And bill gates is like, this is why invent cell phone, which is you just tell yourself that bill bright, like you did the zoo? No, sorry.

But that is that distraction from the giant created the opportunity for google to exist in many ways. IT created the opportunity for apple to make its big come back because it's not like macos s nine software were selling the imac. Web browsers were selling the imac.

So all of this distraction about microsoft and bumble and exporter, all the stuff in the nineties, whether kinking anything, I just created the opportunity for other players to enter because microsoft was constrained by whatever. Here we have a very similar situation. This case actually started in the trumpet administration.

IT got won in the by administration under this D. O. J. Now we're going to head into a remedy y's phase with a new president, a much more transactional president, who will pay direct attention to the C. O.

Of this company, who is already said his talking in ca. Of this company with elan must going to call I was reported this week. And who knows the eternal general be what to start with the basics is, is JoNathan canter still gonna the assistant internal general antitrust? When case goes to the remedies phase.

that would seem highly unlikely. Um you know even when I think administrations are a wind on certain policies, they often just want to bring in their own people. So I think, you know we're likely to see a different anti trust chief at the DJ under trump.

Um but I think IT is a big open question of what way that person will lean are they are gonna be a more populist, knew brand dicing anti trust person who um actually does want to pursue really strong remedies against google or they're gonna be more of the you know establishment conservative type um that wants to kind of do as light a touch a thing as they can. So I think we've still didn't really know what that's going to be. I mean, we don't even know who the ag nome is gonna after mcKeith dropped out.

So um I think there are a lot of big questions about that. But I do think it's important that IT was brought under the first trump administration. So I don't think we're going to see IT completely with their way. Um but I could see for sure that maybe the next D O J doesn't want to go as far as this D O J has put out there.

Think there's an agent's here, which is actually what we should sell google into as many component parts as we think. That's our proposal. So that the next dog shows up and even the walk or are like prenez title against the next administration perhaps.

I mean, I think any any administration that walks back some of these, they're going to have to deal with what that looks like to the public. I'm sure they would say that's not really a factor for them. But I think for any anyone who works in politics that is to extend um they're enough to say are right well we did polar punches here um and explain uh so I think IT you know it's harder to take something away than to add something back in um and you know I could see that potentially being a consideration here.

The other piece i'm just curious to read on this. We obvious don't know who the eternal general be in. Mark had SONY problems that he just withdrew like he literally went a capital here for twenty minutes he met with senator was like I am mount you guys and so that that is whatever IT is um and that's the kind of politics we ever really talk on show but he was kind of an interest guy where he was into IT maybe in a bad faith way like I just want to punish with companies which is seems to anim ate a lot of trumpet anti trust but he was still like that's prety cool a je that's a we've watched video of him saying google is a problem in linka is doing a good job a we ve josh holly right there is a strain of anti trust thinking in the modern republican party that says that we pressure break up google you on mosque I mean he says everything you can you can find a tweet of anything at this point but he said google is a problem market recent benefaction rer, the trump campaign and our benefactor R Y. Administration they think google is a problem like open openly, said IT what how does that tie up with actually want the government out of messing with big american companies because IT, there's there's a ideological inconsistency there. I have no idea how that results.

Well, I think the staying out of american company is comes more from the establishment ARM of the republican party. And I think trump you know I think he can kind of talk that part of IT when IT is is beneficial to him or you know in areas that makes sense for him. But I think you know when IT comes to big, tacky has often uh wanted to speak out on them and um you know has an elevated anti trust and forces in his previous administration who did go after both google and meet. So I think there's always been that strain within trump and you know trams previous administration um so I think you know IT is definitely note a all that he continues to surround himself with people who do believe in this kind of more progressive view of the anti trust but at the same time I would copy out that like with trump, we never really know um you know what's going to happen you know is he going to change his mind the next day and who's really got his ear? So I think it's hard to pull any policy from any one of those people, but I think that just seeing that there are so many of them that he's surrounding himself by and um you know the animosity that he has had toward certain tech companies and tech executives, I think it's not hard to imagine that there would be some incentive to continue these fights against the tech companies.

I would also just point out that the the unifying theme of a lot of these anti trust fights is against companies that have they they have decided have wrongly them in some way on the internet like I think it's less about like a broad moral belief about anti trust and more about, uh, big companies that say bad things .

about me and search results. No, i'm just pointing out it's a bunch of people who are mad and they act in ways the accomplish attribution and trump in particular, he said, they ve got to treat Better.

I will break and very wrong like however you want to feel about that, they have been mad at google in particular long enough that I think it's says some reason that they are going .

to continue to be medical. In addition, how can find a icrc?

You fund a bunch shift to government that are going to have a really easy time building add fund of art engine. Now like suddenly, suddenly you take the best market in the history of the internet and you break IT into a thousand pieces and make IT available for anyone to come in to like that you've just made every VC year, right?

Like we've heard this for years, IT came about the trial that VS won't fund search companies because IT is it's it's a dead area. It's not even worth trying to compete with google. And instead, what you're doing, you're saying here's a hundred billion dollar a year industry that is suddenly completely up for grabs. You don't even have to try that hard to be competitive. Like yeah yeah i'd be into that of five .

I will point out of the first trumpet administrations and I rest efforts ended uh with one uh t mol like's rint in a negotiated deal that created project of this america's forth while as Carrier which to this day I think strikes terror of heart of favor americans, I know who you know. It's gone over there. That's one.

And then the other one, uh, they fought against eight and t buying time or because trump hated CNN so much, that's IT. That was the entire intellectual investigation for opposing emerge. They lost.

She's fine. And that resulted in a four three grey scale. Justice lee, judge by ax inter. Those are the two outcomes of the previous trump administrations.

and I trust efforts. That's good. We've now hit the bingo card for the first time.

Talks just playing, you know, like, how will trump to the crow you like? Well, the evidence suggest they will force them to hire zx niter to make great scale square youtube videos and start boost to mobile. Like, I don't know what to make of all that, but you could actually out of the pieces of google each friday that google fire is now boost mobile and that's my that's my prediction that anyone ask you about laun very quickly.

Uh, this case, the google case is done right? They were found guilty of having them up. We now were in the remedy face. The other case it's wrapping up, right? It's going to come to a conclusion.

The judge is going to decide the judge is not a political actor in the way that some other folks are political actors, at least not supposed to be. That will come to a conclusion. Apple's case is still pending.

IT hasn't gone to trial. No one's been ruled anything where apple asked for a dismissal. Today, they make us go away.

Apple has a lot to want, from an incoming trumpet administration to straight forwardly. Apple makes a lot of stuff in china, and trump wants to impose tariff s on goods made in china. So you can see tim cook castle horse trade his way out.

He did an excEllent job that last time, but maybe ten cook singular achieve in a CEO is navigating Donald trump to excuse apple products from test. You can make the argue and not say it's good, bad. I'm not outside of the morality of IT.

He did a good job of IT. He he excused apple from a lot of noise by managing one man very directly. Do you think that he's going to be able to manage his way out of the a last suit because the incoming attorney general could .

just drop IT? That's true. Yeah I I think you know when it's something like the when it's coming from the D O J IT really is up to the D O J where they if they want to continue the case in what direction they wanted to go, um you know they certainly could withdraw IT.

Um but I think that's hard. It's already you know in this kind of pro trial phase. Um they were just arguing a motion to and you know that that's going to be up to the judge to decide whether any part of the case can move forward.

Um and I guess it's therefore ally possible that the judge dismisses the case. I think often in these really big cases um we might see them narrowed but not fully dismissed. Um so yeah then it's on the dear j to decide what they do.

And I think a apple is in much more of a friendly position with trump, in a sense, just based on the past administration when tim cook managed to really kind of walk this really precarious line in you just being on trump's goodnight. So I think if any company could do IT perhaps as apple um but you know that would obviously be a big deal. If D O J just dropped the case entirely, I think that would be so. 于是 我 in the DJ is .

posty independent of the presidency。 I don't think the trump want to DJ independent of the like. I don't want to be. This is what we're talking about, this corruption, like sort of straights ly corruption cut called donal trump.

And I dropped by an interest case, like in a Normal administration that would end there, like lawyers would come streaming into the White house. IT would burst in the old off as me, mister president, you can do. And that does not going to happen this time.

But yes.

very clearly does not want that to happy. He does not want to constrain on his behavior. The question is, what happens next, right? And I answer, IT, what's a simple hope? Trade away. Like, do you care more about territory? Care more about your ana suit?

There's still in north CarOlina factory that either does or doesn't exist, and either whether won't exist that tim can always throw .

into this I M A fake factory in. And text was very good. Look at this mac pro even making this time. Uh, it's a lot. That one I think is just stop up programs and way of the google ones are there are up programs in different way. Like I said, the microsoft sort of the lustration here, right like, uh, there was a change of administrations and then the postal, the government changed, ended up with consent decrees instead of breaks to you as it's going to happen. But I just seem like tim cook, at the very least, cannot retire in the next four years.

Yeah, I think apple shareholders will definitely want him to hang on there.

We're going to open so many fake factories. I'll take you a Better. We want to send me email and tell me what the next fox on is going to be curious because we had to going to end up with one.

It's something going to happen. We got to take a break. Were already over we and one ever. And thank you so much.

Thanks for having me.

We will get back.

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Back get ready for forty five minutes of talking about the trumpet administration. I honestly just want to see if in our stats we can see people stop listing .

the podcast when where says then um we sure can in our emails .

that no where you edit. We had all the politics out of our system. Where do you get that with me? A little politics later. But for now we're going .

to do get everything .

is politics just like a lexi calling in uber, only the uber has a giant american flag mount of the back to the now by, well, so there's like a bunch great. You know, I came up from gfk yesterday. There has a bunch of choices at the airport like ua, comfort you on business, comfort to you on uber, electricity or whatever. If I could pick .

giant american flag truck.

uber patch, uber rapper I got would take IT. I'm just saying, you know me, I would take IT, right? Uh, lots of A A I stuff, what a gadget stuff. Just a big mix of companies trying to figure out what on earth is going on. I would say.

yeah, what are we doing here is like a real question facing the tech industry at this.

So let's start with amazon just bumble this up. So there's a lot of rumors about what's going to happen with the next version of alexa. There are some reporting earlier this week the amazon really wants to roll IT out.

but it's still too slow. Yeah, it's tough. The vibes coming out of amazon about what alexa is and might be when IT comes out next just keep getting worse. And I was supposed to launch on october. It's now the end of november, uh, and I would say there is no sign of IT yet.

And it's it's one of the things like you can get to the point where once these things have been leaked in the way that they have several different times in several different ways, IT starts to become clear. This is like, this is people who think this is a problem and want want to talk about IT, right? It's like and IT was like, if there is so much smoke now that it's like this, there's something really problematic happening here. But in in their .

smoke on the other side, which is they've all been leaked in the other way and like big happy way is to like juice stock Prices and make everyone think that you know they're not going lapped by opening eye like jesus digital. Jesus will turn on the lights soon, we promise. Ah is a problem is is like a thing that all these companies are saying.

And then the reality of William products is still very chAllenging. So here you have amazon, which I think suffered the most from the first wave of my chat pots. Like why was an elexa doing this already? Totally right.

You you didn't even have an iphone services business to you the way that apple got distracted from security like you didn't have some cash card. You d just had to look, this was your bet. You wanted to like to be windows. The interface is voice.

This is the platform shift as we can talk computers and I talk to us, what what are you you doing? And the answer is, don't work if we got IT and IT seems like yet they they wanted to do agents stuff they wanted to call uber for you. They want to to go buy concert tickets, probably in the same way that everybody talking about, right, which is like quicker and on some websites in the back end and A W S, but it's still too slater.

yeah, it's it's been really interesting to me thinking about the difference between the way that google reacted to ChatGPT and the way that amazon reacted to ChatGPT. Because the google started ting almost immediately was basically, we built all this technology like these things you think you did, we invented. And we've been doing this for a long time, and what google had was a lot of very good technology that IT hadn't built into anything.

And so google all the sudden raised to basically produce zed, this stuff that had been working on internally for a very long time. And I think the speed with which german I has become, like ubiquity inside of google, and also pretty good, suggest that most of a google is english. true.

But like I had to tech and IT changed the company lot to produced IT. But like IT had 来了， amazon was the opposite, right? Like amazon had the thing you would think would be the product, right? Like ChatGPT is coming up being like we made voice mode and alex a is just a voice mode. And we've had IT for ten years.

And what amazon had to do was basically say, no, we can build these underlying capabilities to the point where IT IT soft launched this thing over a year ago in the middle of a bunch of like weird personnel changes, where dave limp was leaving to go run blue origin, panos leaving microsoft to come in and run all this. But like they launched this thing already a year ago, they told us what I was gonna be and made these grand promises about how I was coming soon. And IT is IT. IT has become a boundary clear over the last twelve months that building the technology is the hard part and and amazon just doesn't seem to be able to do IT.

What do you think it's the technology to think it's the product and you could cheat, right? You just go pay opening ideas, whatever these last turn White.

And there's some there's some reporting evidence that, that is a thing amazon easy they're doing or has pretty aggressively considered doing a is just paying for that and you're rate that then attaching all that stuff to the things that alex I can already do is a chAllenge, right? Like no matter what you can, just like writer checked OpenAI and sudden alexa is way Better. It's a lot of work.

But I I think someone really wants everyone to believe that you can just .

want to check yeah I think I think same love for you to believe that and dara anthropic is like, no, we'll do IT for a smaller check but like you can do that uh, but he is also, if you want to be amazon and you want to do this at the scale that they are going to, you at some point have to build yourself. And there are a lot of little tent ticket to doing that well. But the first thing is just like, what if alex o was just a little Better, like you don't have to fix IT all the once, just just do the thing that like apple has been doing with theory for forever, where IT just like quietly get a time a bit Better all the time.

I, I, I reject this comparison. And what are you talking about that yesterday I serry to call my wife. No, like, no, the new animation and everything, you know, like the the glow, the stream.

It's like, beautiful and I like, call back he and I was just like, I don't, i'm, you know, off the clock, man. Like, like, it's not Better. I do.

This morning I put coffee mug on the roof of my car fort and so I am driving and I go on car play and i'm like, hey, um remind me an hour to buy a new yet? Dy, that was what I said because I had mug. I love the things what IT said was in an hour by any popular was the name of.

So you right.

I take back to zero comparing. But if amazon wants to do this, IT has some of the hardest things already out there, right? IT has hundreds of millions of devices that support this thing.

IT has a big ecosystem of devices that work on its devices like you just have to build the underlying park. And that is an easy thing to think is the easy part. And IT is very clearly not easy per.

Yeah, I and I I think with apple, you can see it's also not the easy part totally.

An apple just decided to punt to ChatGPT in a very real way.

And even that is not IT like the part where you to talk to the phone and that goes and that stuff for you, that's not ChatGPT. I actually think that can you make the existing voice a system incremental Better of ai is not possible. Like I think the way that alexa in syria and google assistant are currently architected is their dead ends like its heels.

Very clear that these are depends and that everyone struggling to rebuild the general purpose, L M, into a thing that can do that, the same stuff that theory can do and then make IT more capable and you're there's a stuck like I don't I don't think you can be like it's elects the same molex y you know in love but sometimes it's a thousand times smarter like I I don't think that that is like working and so I will see I mean, I you know my sense is that they brought in panel to make this go because they needed strong leadership to make calls. And he is a strong of a product litter you can get. So we'll see how cos but the basic problem of on the one hand, you have sam Allen and dario out there being like we can build A G I. And current hardware, which is a real thing, these people, he said, uh, and the other hand, you ve got and as I me like it's turning its turning out to be very difficult to switch on light which what the these tools is like where just like all of place yeah well.

this is why there was the one that of amazon news that I thought was superchain this week was A I believe this business insider that had a story that a amazon is instead of trying to do all of this stuff itself and do the like agencia I that can go use website or half. It's just making deals with partners to do this stuff, which is like a thing you and i've been talking about for forever, right?

Like A A P S over A S is like a thing I keeps saying to people that like why can you just make the uber APP do IT for you because you don't have to go fake the uber APP just just let uber do IT. Uh, and that appears to be the way that amazon is going, which I think a you can read as a total referendum on how good amazon zone A I stuff is. But also like they're making deals with uber so that when you say get me ride, just call you on uber ah and door dash for food deliveries and ticket master for my tickets, see things.

And these are ideas that raise other complicated questions. Like should I tell me that its door ash doing IT so that I understand the like transparency, this process and the fees, and who also going to and who has my information? All that is really complicated.

U but like dt, ash is gonna a do IT Better than amazon hacking door dash. you. So like, I think that.

Is actually a good sign to me that there is A A version of elexa that is going to be Better at. There's stuff in a more integrated way that amazon has stopped saying. We're going to solve all of this problem with fake rabbit style A I, where we're just gonna use website for you. We're just going to be partners with the people who know how to do this. And I think that is going to be the right approach for a pretty long time.

Yeah, let me know amazon is the money to do IT. Jessie from rabbit is like one of money to do IT. So i've got to do some clicking around. We'll see. I just we can achieve A G I in current hardware, but apple on amazon can't quite deploy this stuff at scale in a way that makes sense, doesn't break light switches just to consider touches.

There are one other bit mmi uis facing the ants new echo shows this week and has the right up, uh echo show fifteen and twenty one, which is basically just A T V. I, just a twenty one in echo show in your kitchen. They show IT in their own press photos running the fire TV face like that the TV was stand .

with a remote like just a television TV .

pretty good people like giving TV uh in their kitchen in in particular great uh, they're doing some adaptive light stuff. I don't think he is on photo stuff is very good, but they're obviously making around put photos and here making .

a good do you the kitchen T V like do a dedicated screen for .

watching stuff in kitchen no we we have a next hub, the choice photos um that often just miss response to go use IT for setting timers um and because IT is a google device, you can run youtube T V on IT bright but it's it's small and has the first one has in gigantic s so you can just see the big T V in the kitchen and look across house to that t to whatever exam we are watching T V that is the solution um but I we're just not like T V people in that way.

That's fair.

Um and also backeds was and speakers on like that's the real team our house understood, what's faster but these two echo shows， aside from the fact that they are enormous and cheap although twenty one in screen with N P resolution for that's like some David .

piers states right literally that is more expensive than my 4KTCLPP series that is fifty inches right behind me。

Yeah no thing looks great. Sure no pending in the colors. Ah it's great. Two ninety nine for the fifteen all that all that a side the screens aside uh, they are building cameras for video calling. They are proud of the cameras.

And then they have built in wifi, thread and zig by radios for smart home stuff. And so you just see, okay, the idea is we're to put a little computer, little servers and connect everything for you. I can have bunch a little hubs like your hub b, your things hub, whatever.

Um it's all going to build into this device and then you'll have this device. And this way the locust farm m control. Also the thing you talk to in all TV pretty interesting whether any that actually works or whether matter plays out the way it's supposed to play, as you can buy a bunch of stuff in still control from your iphone and also have this home hub.

T who knows? But at least we're making my confident steps towards you just buy this thing, everything connects to this thing, and then IT is expressed out to your phones and your voice assistants or whatever. Mess is so messy, but you can see the idea.

I do think it's the right infrastructure. I mean, you pick this against what we've heard about apples stuff, which is very much like buy a little controller for every room kind of thing. And I think I think you're right that having sort of the one big screen you can yell at from almost anywhere and then your phone is actually a much closer answer to right one. And I also think, like jen talks to the other time, having a screen with bigger buttons on IT because a really long way towards making your smart house usable by actual humans.

It's sort of does. I just wanted, I will offer. I will offer this one piece of evidence which just got a huge Victory and a dragani failure. There are so many ways to turn lights on off in the infinite waves. You can just speak to the heavens if you you just wish for lights .

to yellow darkness .

and things uh and so in our kitchen in which is pretty dark, um i've hue IT lights in adaptive mode so they just turn out on the morning and there in daylight. And as the day goes on, the warming, warmer, warmer. And the other day they were and yesterday were out of sink and I was in california so I get a text from back in, which is a huge Victory, a huge Victory.

SHE said, I hate you. The lights are the wrong colour. Because when I put them in and she's like.

who gives you should of up right? Right now.

you know, this is a of a of a piece with I hate you, I can see the motions through thing on my parent. T, V, I hate you. That lies the wrong color.

You did IT huge Victory as I am done. Welcome to my particular circle .

of hell marriage. Ova, mission accomplish.

I got another on to the .

next and then she's like, how do I fix IT? I like just there's like fifty different ways to fix this problems. So you open your phone, the scenes and home on your phone.

But IT occurred to me that one there is a button on one of our ultron light, light switches you can just push to fix IT. And SHE didn't. SHE was like, I don't care, but like I don't want to do that. I don't want to do because if I just an on label little around butter and don't SHE was like, I don't care and then I was like, what you can go to the next tub and you can you can just like you at IT she's like she's lura de by commander self efficient um and I said one day, sometimes the next fifty years that we are married and living the house together I would you were going to say movie time out now just once and and I got all the way to there is an old iphone mounted on one of those new stand by mode stands that just shows the buttons IT is next to the home the next time they're physically next to each other. But because the next tub doesn't see the home kit scenes I needed in all iphone understand kitchen day time lighting and SHE went pushed up on and like, this is just a jay antic there are so many ways to accomplish this. And SHE just .

do IT yeah a matter of fictive.

B, B, you just .

described the exact problem with everyone, smart home, which is that what you end up doing is you, like, i've built a million ways to do everything. It's totally redone in IT, totally works and it's like, you know, the actual thing he wanted from you is tell me to walk up to the big screen slide the thing that's the colors and i'm done that's a Better answer.

which is more or less effect of what up right he walked up to the phone understand it's a kitchen and daytime and SHE just pushed IT but but it's the next IT was to the next tub which cannot do that because IT doesn't support the home kit scenes, right. Which is not good there in less the the actual could also have just said movie times, not movie. You could say kitchen SHE will SHE will never say movie. We sit down to watch movie like I going to say he is like I never .

saying it's and you are just imaging you doing IT like hammer time, just like stop .

movie and there's even do much .

you want to move .

lights in one room, but it's such a funny thing to save like other people have to like the shades come down, the projector turns on.

the popcorn starts.

Like all this stuff happens just like like off wondering but it's still the funniest thing you it's pretty good.

It's pretty good. All right.

i'll see. We'll see if that convicts IT, I think is the end of that. Yeah matter one point five.

I hear that the one uh a it's funny .

how A I in matter and blue th are all the same on the same cats. Like we're going to get there. We're gona build digital godden and is going to turn off to let you .

i'd take you on if that's the one thing digital guy can do. I'm i'm ready for IT what's be .

on to because it's a piece of all this. So there been rumors that something is going to make A T V streamer for a long time. This is the next logical thing for to make which part of their business is uh sandbars in home theater systems and lately improving their APP that decide um so be very logical going to do this many, many questions about how sonus could build A T V stream like you need an Operating system, you need APP support yourself.

So bloomberg reported a Price. It'll hit somewhere between hundred and fifty and two hundred dollars. And then Chris welch put together some evidence based on previous reporting by yanko records is excEllent.

Porter, um the this Operating system will be called venturer and be made by company called the trade desk. This is very confusing. Do you know what's going on here?

IT is back. So okay. So the trade desk is an advertising company like it's more complicated than that, but it's also not more complicated than that like they are an advertising company and they just launched this thing.

Uh, the thing that yanko reported a willig was that the trade desk was building a smart T V Operating system. Uh, and he got a bunch of push back, including from people who just straight forwardly like nowhere not, uh, yes, they were. And they launched IT officially and it's called ventura.

Uh, the trade that couldn't tell us anything about IT, they wouldn't share images, they wouldn't share videos, but IT is apparently a thing and IT is so abundantly clear that what they are doing is offering a place on which you can show ads and run netflix that seems to be the whole above of the thing. Uh, and they had a bunch of information you from from partners and I was like the heads of advertising at various streaming services being like sick ads, we as as a rate uh and then soon as being like we are excited to be part of this. Uh and and like you said, Chris watch has been reporting on this for forever h and he he put two and two together in his basically this is pretty clearly what sonus is doing.

Uh which is weird but also pretty sensible if if you're sonos and you're like, oh, we desperately need not only for people to buy this thing but for this to be a real source of revenue for us outside of hardware, which sonus has been desperately trying to figure how to do for a long time. And so throwing in with a thing that is fundamentally about building an advertising business seems like a bomber of a user experience. Probably a good .

business for us. So I just can read this paragraph from trade desk about ventura. Bench a represents a major advance in streaming T, V Operating systems as IT solves key issues with prevAiling market systems today, including frustrated user experiences, inefficient advertising supply chains and content conflicts of interest.

I mean, those are my three biggest isp. When I think about what I hate about watching T, V, inefficient advertizing supply change is number two on the list for sure.

Uh it's very good. Uh it's very good in that um the Young people are just washing youtube like .

matter and advertising yeah .

pretty good. Like I watched the nfl and youtube and then the jay pal fight and netflix. I I know what they mean by inefficient advertising supply chain. It's my curse to know what that means yeah I I don't want to tell you couldn't so stupid.

All they mean is that when you open A T, V box, you have multiple apps on the T, V box, and those apps don't know what ads you have seen. So different add providers are selling the same ad topic, who you and netflix and whoever else youtube TV and the supply. He is an efficient because I can just just target you.

The user is targeting in apps, which then how to user like this is all a mess. And rocus entire business model, as you can even put that stuff on a roku unless you give rou, is a cut, just like the APP store. And that means rocket makes money. But all these other companies, like wire, real ping, the fees are on the same ads and same box, same person. And who is like our rich?

Give me five out.

Is this a thing you can sell to a consumer? We've solved the problem. If you might see the same, add a bunch .

time to be fair. yes. Like honestly, if I could just stop getting the one ad that I get one hundred thousand times a day for a stupid eight VC cleaning company, like I would, I would pay more money for that.

I would, you would pay more money .

for an efficient advertising. Was if p. Cock was like, five, nine, nine a month, nine, nine a month, only show the same at once. I would pay.

They pay more money. We won't you any ads really?

You a dd .

have to look at my phone .

sometimes, really like, i'm good with. I just want, I want, I want more ads. I want adver.

We will see. I just think like it's it's great to chase A T V rocks. Uh, it's it's very hard and nothing about this makes me confident that they will solve the core problems, which is like, where do I find the thing I want to watch? And sometimes it's netflix and netflix has no incentive to play.

That's just real and like and then you've got to integrated. You'd be able to say movie time have the current come down. I want to get some current my house. Uh.

there's also the question of, like why would you buy this from sonus? Ever like what TV streaming box could sonus possibly offer you? That would be super compile. I don't know that .

they will ever do an actual box. I think they will do a sandbar with a unch mi inputs. And so I just buy the saying that will sound amazing.

And also it's got the streaming stuff falling into IT. But the reality is more and more people are not buying boxes all there, just buying the T, S. And using the big garden TV suffer. But in my to make A T V A speaking of what anyone is doing in hardware, uh, that's why google is proportional dly cancelling the pixel tablet to my leave tables entirely uh, but then also might be about to remote all of the tops and tablets. And then also there's a rumor that they are going to cut down criminals .

and rebel little I could do. By the way, you just explain the thing that doesn't make .

any sense in about the most sensible part also .

government for the uh I mean, there is an interesting thing here that is a line between those two things. Like to remember the thing that metta did where they were like, oh, you're going to you're going to make us break up our messaging apps. We are going to stitch them all together and s such a way that that's impossible like is that what's happening here? As google says, we shouldn't do these .

things that matters. Thing was ice cold calculated. They saw come in.

They made a move. They still, they haven't actually, actually to move like the sofa. yeah. But this is not, that is thing I is called.

The work calculated about google's hardware. We made .

another run at tablets and nothing has happened. We might cancel this whole deal also. Maybe chromo ks shot on on android. They said for the fifty of time in the five years.

Yeah I mean, I the thing I think is interesting about this is, uh the the pixel tablet thing is weird. There's been some conflicting reporting on a bunch of, uh a bunch of primarily report on apple and android about, uh, what was coming for the pixel tablet three and then there was a report on android headlines that the pixel tablets three was cancelled.

And then there is another report that actually the thing that was cancelled was not the pixel at three of the pick tablet two, which would imply that there are no more pixel tablets coming. Um I would say what seems to be clear as that google is getting out of the tablet business in some fairly short water, which like I don't see a lot of pixel tablets in the world, are not super shocked by this. But also boy was IT not a long time ago that rick astro and the whole google crew were like, no, we're serious about this for doing this for real.

We're in IT to win IT. All we can do is keep making stuff that people like and for the long hot like bs. Ah I think I think the chrome book chromos android thing is probably more interesting because the thing that happened not that long ago is that android and hardware all became recoverable problem.

And and what you need in order to do this thing that google has tried and failed to do a thousand times, which is combine chromo s and android, is you need somebody to just make that call, who can direct every single person involved what to do. And now that person is red astro a and we reported a while ago that google was canceling the next pixel book, uh, and that that was just not going to be a thing. And what seems to be the case now if google is going to get back in the laptop and it's going to be something like the kicks all laptop and it's going to run android and basically android plus desktop class chrome browser could work like it's just it's just sitting there, right?

But IT requires a big leap from google to say we're out of the chrome book business or to at least to say we're doing this other thing. Instead, chromos are going to be low in education things. And where we're going to do android for the higher boy is that you probably not going to work, but it's like you to a you can organizationally do inside of google. Now I think kind of for the first time ever.

sure. I just think the the promise of the chrome book is that IT is simple and being like now it's android really gets you away from the promise, right you? And by simple, what I mean is there's only one I mean, you can run around and up to my book theyve got that more complicated or for the past years.

Um what I mean is generally the application model on a current book is crime. Yes, you're gonna run a bunch of brothers tabs and you can run most applications and browsers and that is a powerful application environment and is taking over. Most things with most stop apps are religious web apps and duras rappers like that's a big idea and they have just abandoned IT, kind of which is weird in other a scheme. So who knows a but to say actually we should run this on our other Operating system with a vastly different application model, just like write back in the next. Now just the .

laptop is is just a .

windows laptop, a mac, because you've got the native application model and you've got whatever we is actually the top, just rs great.

And you have been a weird I pi zone where like we're starting to see bits and pieces of this with the android discus into foldable les, right where there they're testing the the free form that top window, which makes no sense on some android devices, slight sense on some android devices.

And t like maybe that's why they're getting on a tab because like photo are IT .

just put our effort into photons, les and laptops. I think it's not crazy this.

Yeah, I was I was out with somebody who had a pixel folio, wasn't liam who bought one and returned one. I will call out producer, well, as I was somebody, you had one and I loved IT just grinning from here .

every time I am, tell IT, yeah it's good phone that's like I A I think that would not be an insane stance for google to take uh if and only if you can then make the best of thing actually work. And like we've been saying, google has uh, promised to figure out how to mary chrome and android for a very long time. And IT has never ever, once come even close to being remotely good.

And now they might have be forced ly divorced. But the union, let's end here, which is, this is like the funny st place standout, a conversation IT was microbic night this week. Sagan all got on stage shot a lot about scaling laws and A I and all the stuff. And then is like also, here's a three hundred four and R P C, which is basically chrome box .

or windows yes, like IT is press exactly that.

It's a cute little guy yeah I mean, it's a square, but you know it's like a little. It's all guy and it's just it's a crime boxer.

Windows yeah you you stream windows on IT. I think this is going to be very successful like maybe not this one, but this idea of basically like here's just a super essentially like thin client that you plug into a screen and run windows on in an internet kind of way gloster. I'm all for IT.

This thing is it's like I wanted buy one of these just to like have around. I think the idea that people are going to completely stream their computer is still a long way away. But this is like a you know I need IT for a developer environment at work or were running our dentist office on streaming windows like sure, i'm into IT. I mean.

this thing this looks like a is this is when you get your first job and you sit down on your first computer in your first cubicle in this thing is looking at you. It's like the X. That's that's my reaction to this, David, like, I want to stream windows .

at my house you the beauty that is unlike the crappy this top computer that you get your first day at work at the at the, you know, accounting firm uh, this one just runs the internet. And the internet is fast now. So that's good. You don't have to do much on this thing IT just run the internet.

You just have to be surveyed by your boss. The thing going to a mouse, giguere, detective, the cops come of a detect fake .

working this perfect no IT is very funny. Google is like desperately trying to get become more like windows and microsoft, like never one we're done being windows, let's do to do the internet.

If you remember, the first ipad, uh, was explicit position by Steve jobs, is not a netbook. Yeah, right? This idea that you would have a thin client PC that, like maybe not a stream, entire Operating system that just ran web apps. I mean, I was the epc. I caught my, I cut my teeth right about epcs joan's n SHE became a name in the gadget world by getting network scripts.

That's very good. We're net boxes a thing. Can we can net boxes a thing? OK. Yeah.

there there are a little whatever idea you're going to buy this cheap linux computer in a run web apps. And that's going to cost five hundred years and then see Charles like, here's and I bet, what would you like? A good computer they want away.

I was that we got to take a break one day. We're going to have join IT back and make her tell the story about when SHE came to me totally stressed out. She's like I can't just get epc scoops center of the hand.

Was making I was like, you're good tour. We have to take a breakaway right back. What the winning it's coming. Get out, everybody.

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We did promise this would be the greatest add in the history of the forecast.

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Lighting around is presented by A W.

U. S. It's very good. We have grand plans for ships to take a long time to put off. And in our teen, they just went for the biggest whale they could find.

And again, you know, now you've heard of him, they were just a little, a little fly in an Operation before. But now the real validation is finally come to eight of U S. Uh, this is great.

We have grand plans for uh other companies. I don't know how that works at all. What some other people need more announce named in the drop of hat if you pay as money.

Um and then we have grandparents for how people can participate because we've got ten so many emails from listeners being like I was sponsible in around and we have some ideas. Me, good, right? So we're changed you going around. We got some feedback last time on our new site and shown til, which is this is just the late round.

which is not it's not wrong, not wrong. It's not right.

but it's not wrong, right? Like so much. So here's the new idea will still do show me help you show up with talk what stories to go through lighting around. We just have the long list were just going to go through him as fast lightning speed yp, sponsored by cloud computing.

I will say, historically speaking, for everyone who is listening to this, when we have tried this, IT becomes the longest thing we do a and so so are our good friend. Me, I tell, has committed to actually lightning, his way through the lightning.

We have grand plans for this too. Can be great as soon as someone sponsors us for enough money for us to buy a clock. One clock, yeah, the most expensive clock of all time.

First we buy the yachts and then we buy the clock.

One stop, watch, and we're going this service. R let's start. Conchas is spinning off its cable TV business. This is actually huge news.

So congress, as you know, nbc universal and investor in box media, the big news here is that we are pretty want to change this discuss and it's true. I don't know how it's going to happen and I have no insight into that will change. You know.

what's going to be amazing is pretty soon our discloses going to be spinky yeah is an investor.

So the signal this in the last earnings report, we're going to spin off some our cable assets and do quote a well capitalized company, which means are going to given bunch money, not load them up with a debt, which is usually have that cause. And the new company right now, because that does not a named, is called spinky. And IT is M S N B C, C N B C.

A bunch of cable networks. So congress wants to be out of the cable network business. That's not where the money is for the anymore.

The money is in broadband. They're onna. Hold on to nbc universal and the hilariously bravo because problem makes one mp cock. Is that true? yes.

Where there's if I just assume brian Roberts, the CEO just like really loved below deck or something, he's like, I can't get rid. brave.

So this is what yet to see, how this is gonna a mark laser as a CEO spinky. These three questions about C M B, C M S. MBC.

Because they are built on the infrastructure of N B C news, right? Which contest and keep so like what had is that work? Um but people know I I have appeared on C B C many times this culture.

I I I hope everyone there is doing great. But I think you can just point this directly and say, oh, the era of cable television is over yet that is just over. We're full industry ing and maybe not even in the streaming. We might just be into video platforms like youtube in tiktok. And what you actually need to do to figure out how C N B C or M S N B C or any of these other networks that you're taking is a participant .

in those yeah it's really think you go back even a few years and the the overwhelming theory was basically the the pay T, V landscape is slowly declining, right? It's going to make us a lot of money, but IT is going to very slowly win o away. And what actually happened is that is that is just exploding into a thousand pieces all at once, right? Like IT is.

IT is collapsing more quick and more aggressively than anyone expected. So when you are seeing now is all these companies scrambling to get out of that business as fast as they possible? yeah.

And we've gone from like this is how do we manage the slow growth of streaming with the slow death of cable. And now it's how do we manage the slow growth of streaming with the extremely rapid death of cable. And it's it's putting a lot of people in .

weird positions I think are kept abc. I think this glove is still MBC.

Nothing would make me happier than you having to say spin co on every so that is what i'm looking for.

It's gonna confusing. That's a big deal. We're going to see our place out. But the idea that you have this other company that has to find its own distribution, that is the problem solve.

Every company is transplant from uh right next that uh down the truth is officially named Brandon car is his nominee for a chairman of the fcc uh which we predicted on the show uh the last three weeks or o yes uh I will actually like around this one a this is done in bad in britain, has bad ideas. You can to read his project twenty twenty five chapter. Uh is is nonsensical.

But he wants to seized power, the L. C, C, and use IT to control speech on platforms and do IT using like threats of section to thirty reform. Now that's work. We're just going to make one of them for next for years. That is a promise for me to you.

perfect. done. Move on.

I don't quite get this one. X rava is closing. T P. I. basically.

yes. A travis is one of those companies that is kind of like the data layer of a lot of other fitness apps. Uh, it's like what you use to track your runs and bike rides and all the other uh, and kind of out of nowhere informed lots of developers that is changing the way police is A P I and stands bly. It's about privacy and A I training and making sure that people's data is preserved in the way that travel understand travel has committed said, we think this is barely gone to touch anybody. It's not going to be a problem.

But a lot of users, np developers are saying actually things that we like, like these automatically generated leaderboards that let us compute our friends inside of these apps, or like, you know, some reason, things over time that let you track information, like things you can do that travel doing, let you do but you can do with travel data, is all just gna disappear. And I think is happening really fast, just like everybody like thirty days. Notice that this is happening, which is really fast in in any kind of like developer environment, uh, and so people are just kind of freaking out.

And I think what IT will actually be remains to be seen. But it's it's just one of those things that is like one company is in the middle of a lot of this stuff. And this data means a lot to people.

And you can read the this straw, a trying to be good to its people. And you can read the drove, a trying to close the windows so that you have to use travel more. And IT all bit remains be seen, which one IT actually going to be.

So let me think everyone to, of all things, read IT OK good quarter public company people for the first time ever.

crazy like a long time, twenty years later. Yeah.

redit got there by going to war against its developers and users and taking what had been a pretty open ecosystem and closing IT down and saying, you're gna use our APP if you want to make another APP, we're going to pay so much money that is not even remotely worth IT. If you want to be a moderator of a Better you're going to play by, our rules are going take you away from you.

And this was generally bad, right? This is a large platform that pissed off its most important constituency. I think we've set IT by the power uses of ready IT to moderate the subject.

Its the activity is making me up. People like they're basically get out, but we are way the highway and IT has had effectively no negative repercussion that we can see, right? It's still growing. IT just made money is signed a big deal with google people using redit.

It's the only non a family source of data for google search like there's a lot going on a redit that is positive but they had to go through a ranching change which you know can make all about breaking some egg s some very important, very meaningful legs yeah still broken. Is that straw a right? They're just closing a downings through the ecosystem .

going to make money off what we have here. That's certainly the cynical read. Uh and one of the things that happening is stravinsky arts to build its own A I features like they have A A V song who's been covering on the first mentioned that I think it's got athlete intelligence.

This thing which is essentially like a summary of all of your training data that tells you how you're doing. That's the kind of thing that you've been able to use travel data for in other apps. And now straw a is saying, no, you can't do that, but we're doing that.

And that is precisely the thing that read IT said, delete the party of developers right? Like that. That's the speech.

The differences. I think it's I I don't use drama, so I could be wrong about this. And I would be curious to hear from people who've been using travel for a really long time.

But to me, the switching costs out of redit are much higher than they are out of travel. Like if you if you want something like read IT but not read IT, IT doesn't excess. There's no that you just there are no other places rava has lots of competition.

Uh and and you seen this even in like the the forms and on ironically, the secretary of people talking about the people are encouraging people to go like investing the garden ecosystem more or like there are other ways to track this kind of stuff. I think for people who've been in this ecosystem a long time, getting out will be very hard. But it'll be interesting. The sea of travis can actually pulled this thing off because I just don't know that its walls are quite as like high and inpenetrable as redit work. And that was ready to to bet all along, right, was like, we can do this because fundamental, most of you like IT here, and also where .

you gna go with facebook groups.

exactly. I just, I don't know that travel has quite that same tie to people, but again, I am not a streva user. And if you are, I would I would love to hear like what the perils of leaving strapper feel like.

Yeah, i'm very curious. I also choose not to .

track how I try run everyday. I track IT .

just by sitting at my test, that's gingling in the clock on imagine this， you can see the future lighting right coming now that we're swiming in cash.

we on a arma in clock and A H H. There are some .

documents that by on musk has pending tremeau shakey loss against open a eye at least is generating discovery and emails between u an sam altman n between the other founders of open eye. Sam altman n it's sort of document how this company went from a nonprofit to sam altman's house of profits. Describe IT like the beginning you ones like deep mind to google is going to hire everybody.

Here's some money starting on profits we can make ah and now where IT we're going to make this a four profit company control only by samella man, the watch in his emails so collie wrote them up but IT IT really does seem like I think took un gave a bunch of money to send out them without a contract. Step one, from your friend who is not your lawyer, but is a lawyer, you like you to have a contract, it's really hard to file a claim, a british contract with our contract basic stuff cast, so you don't have a contracts. Inventing all these other real fears, which are all very tenuous. But the emails make IT very clear that sam omen is like, here's an on profit and and slowly made IT a four profit. And IT was about to actually fill the .

switch for profit yeah and also the ways in which sam in particular has like consolidate his power over time. And all of this happened almost to the day a year after the insane events of last thanksgiving, once I got briefly fired and then came back with more power and more autonomy and ability to do ever he wants, uh, my read of this whole lost you and there's A A linked to the blog person so I don't member to read up, but somebody just put all the emails in a blog post in a row and IT is so funny to read because you can tell elon mosques angle here is basically just to like big brother sam bolt men, he's like, listen bucko, you can have done this without me. I'm the reason OpenAI exists. I did IT, but then all the bats stuff that happened and the fact that it's not what we wanted to is your thought and IT is very it's funny because a lot of the emails are basically sam going to elon with every question, every problem and in on being like the the grand fixer who's like mostly just throw money at the problem that will design a theory and IT .

seems to be working in a lot of says.

which is see you on other move and say, I don't think he said yes to that.

But and I members did in fact ultimately have three reviews may be correct.

three of the twelve that we know that uh but yeah, it's just there's a lot more to come. Um we've heard we ve seen reporting that there are a lot of messages from inside of OpenAI, including in like signal and messaging apps that we're gona see as part of discovery. We're gna learn a lot about how this company Operates because of this one, also because of .

this S I promise you, I look well that .

that that kind of I think this is as much a push to make this stuff public as to win the losses like this. Is elan musk trying to insert himself as the brains behind OpenAI as much as IT is an attempt to actually win. The last, which I just find .

totally fascinating to read the emails relies is good OK we should end, actually. Can I insert one extra area, please? Both acquired the company that makes macintosh the super high and speakers, I don't know why. I just want to point out.

There is incredible amount of consultation in high and audio, which is very funny because there is both of shells back in the street like that makes like ten thousand dollar amplifiers and I ve always wanted one so cool, but cool like legitimately cool m happy. This company continues uh to to succeed in whatever way it's going to succeed. See the sound united which is on my master w that's powers and mok's done in poke morans definitive technology, just like all of them over there. Um and then there's another company that owns like pianer and oko uh and they're all the same, like it's just bananas look all over the uh like that's all consulted over and just like wild consult o um and you're basically in a picking like the same products but at different levels of expense because of the opposition .

if like the kind of person who wants ten thousand speakers, which as you know, I obviously uh as you can tell by the incredibly powerful audio set up behind me in the room here, um is this good news or bad news like I can't on the one hand, poses like going to allow this company to keep existing. But on the other hand, are these just gonna be the like brand names? They slap on their existing products so that they can charge five times as much money for yeah.

there's a little bit of that. There is a little bit like every car company needs a name seeking my license, the names to car companies like my jeep has macintosh that doesn't really harman carton .

was everywhere in cars for a minute .

yeah was actually unna because IT runs android and there's little android on the screen that puts up the blue macintosh meters. And IT is all that's great. And I love you like god, I was a gip and buy in that car and then it's a slow android APP that is not a very slow and it's like the meters are like a full second behind.

I paid extra for this. I know this is why, but I am just fascinated with this market in particular because IT is consolidate in such a high rate because consumer audio is going away just like this just is right? Yeah, there's not a head fans market and there's an airports market and everything else, right?

Things are becoming wearable ables, like they putting a lot of computer into those. You can see that you buy samsung phones, best headphone spire, samsung g headphones. You buy a pixel.

Best had phones by a pixel board by iphone. Best had phones by our airports, because are extensions of the phones now, weird. That's a weird, bad outcome that I promise you happen because they took the head of from jack out of phones. And so all these other companies are racing to consolidate the very, very high of the mark with the money.

Interesting, I have phones are now there are phone accessory more than they are their own. That which is why everybody is trying to do like three hundred and fifty hens s that the thing that's what's .

left you and even that kind of shake yeah uh, although I did I on my flight home from caller service, so many not got a max. I believe that everyone, I last one. This is a good one.

You take this one. So we talked a lot about the the state of social last week, uh, blue sky being ascended, threads being threads. Uh, and the fascinating thing that has happened in the seven days sense, I would say, is that, uh, blue sky has continued to grow.

Over twenty million people now continues to grow IT like somewhere on th Epace o f l ike a m illion p eople a d ay, which is huge uh and threads is terrified, I would say, is the simple way I would put IT. Uh, threats has already started copying some of the feds. They're letting you do the the custom feed thing. Um just today you point IT this out just for resort recording.

I had missed IT IT IT happens so recently uh adam actually who runs threatens instagram, said that they're tweets kingly algorithm to focus more on people you follow which people have been asking threads for since the first dame day of thread and IT IT is just not a coincidence that they're doing this because of and after the crazy flight to blue sky, uh, so threads is like moving pretty fast to start to do some of the stuff that blue sky is doing really well. I made a joke the other day that blue sky legacy is going to be unfortunately the same as Snapchat, which is that it's gonna all the good ideas that get eaten by meter. And instead of evan speak being the defective product chief of facebook, it's going to be jay river. And that is coming through much faster than I expected.

I disagree, disagree a couple of reasons. One, you know, we should just have like a sound board d where I just, you can just play clips of me talking the festivals. Like, ultimately things should interOperate right.

Oh, sure. So blue sky get some benefit if it's a mass on and the particles are different. But I think a lot of bridges going.

like they will cross talk pretty quickly here.

I think that I will see that the ticks are very different. Yes, very, very, very different and wildly different levels of maturity and honesty threats isn't fully federated and neither is blue sky. Like there isn't.

But I think now there are personal data, so you can you can just you can host you can self host blue sky. But there are no other apps with the actual APP of blue sky, only blue y max. There are pieces of are so kind of IT.

There's early. They just started. They promise to do IT. They haven't alway IT same threats. They promise to do IT haven't only IT. But the network effect here will benefit both companies in a way that did not happen.

First chat, that's true. I.

that should be the promise. Second, threads has not boosted the best idea, which is starter packs, so you can still feed. You can show people more people they follow. But starter packs and blue sky, all of the thing.

There's such a great product.

right? I made a list of people you should follow if you care about, cap up and you publish the list and you can just hit follow and you're done like that is driving so much growth over there yeah in addition to have being rewrote d by defauts, in addition to having multiple feeds and blocked list and all that stuff. But they have made IT really easy to just start yeah .

even in a way that like twitter never figured out like the there were the twitter suggested follows when you would start and that was like really great for whoever made IT on this list. But IT wasn't specific in a way. But now you're right, you can go to blue sky.

You can type in. I did this the other day as like, I like arsenal, the soccer team. I just typed arsenal to the list of shorter packs.

Click follow on one of them. That was like all the arsenal people and all the that my feet is all of arsenal people like. It's wild that no one invented this before. And blue guy just nailed IT. I think threads is going to be somewhere between one day and several days from putting out something very much like that.

But who is a blue guy I really think in again, i'm very nervous about the first element in the trump to administration. Brandon car you're .

am so sorry .

we're going to find some way to algorithm cut up the branding car, a sign to the version next three years um uh but then those of you who like IT, we're going to find a way to turn the volume up on those got we ve got got idea is for pocket. Um I novia about IT. And federation is the thing, is the escape hatch for social media, right? Where I think jay labor can say, look, we moderate blue sky this way.

But if you don't like IT, there are other servers or other apps, you can compose your moderation and you can just have IT that way. And that is the no other company has built yet. I think threads wants that previous e reasons, right? This isn't a close network.

We're building IT anyway, you want. But if you want to follow account on another network, you can there's these are big ideas and again, they're not fully baked. But there are the thing that is going to escape a bunch of weird regulatory pressure on speech on the internet. I'm excited for them.

Ah yeah and we are still in kind of the rising tide lifts all boats moment, right? We're like. What these things are trying to do fundamentally is less compete with each other and more lure people away from x and the the more the more the baLance shifts away from accent into all of these other things, they all stand benefit as they inner connect.

And I think they all have incentives like you're saying, two inner connect. It's going to take a minute, but it'll do IT. But I think whether you're blue sky or threats, you can look at the success of the other one as a Victory as long as threads keeps being the winner.

If you, if you're at a maseru, right, you've you've got to. There is still some Victory in being the one that people are excited about. And I think threats has lost that in a pretty big way.

IT had IT for a while. People were liked about threats. People wanted threads to win. And I think really quickly in the last three weeks, all of that, like good energy, has shifted the blue sky. And I think if you are automatically, that's the thing.

You worry that while still feeling just the weird engagement people will see, I mean, have different ideas. And I A little bit of competition goes a long way home. And it's amazing how a little bit of competition here is made.

Meta react more than governments around the world. You like IT just oh, other people like the other product. Better we Better change a good that's that's the feedback everybody wants um poli said where it's early, very early maybe Linda and is a stage like an enormous come back here.

starter packs .

on x could change everything my favorite sorry, I mean IT uh that we're way where one hundred miles over I can't I shouldn't say not is whatever I mean I meant I leave IT in there. That's IT. We're way over liam just because it's you not go one just say A W S, so good.

It's beautiful, beautiful. Play the music again. And I did everybody for me on the show that's IT.

That's very fast.

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