Gemini is taking over Google
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hello working verchest the flexit podcast of our fancy new studio look at this guys its sick， its so fancy i wish i was there to see it in person does it smell nice you know many times the studio smells like weed when i walk into it when Alexa ive sat down to record this the show， many times youve commented that it smells like weed in here yeah， we dont know if thats from our colleagsidbox doc com we dont know if that is from Liam， we dont know if that is from the other people of pockessing are， but today it does not Sony created songs fresh and new its good if youlistingtothe show its gonna be the same show its just are the space that we recorded has been dramatically upgraded David was gone for two weeks and they our amazing studio team took the time to to rebuild the thing where we were kind out about in traveling， recording remotely and just real fancy in here it does the custom and truly even if youjust listening like you wont see it but like the vibes will be better its very Moody you know any mean its like that realize is like a happier more optimistic person now that wasn this studio i mean i got a giant tv behind me thats the largest frame tv they make ladies and gentlemen and theres like a hangout zone like were sidekicks on podcast go oh theylike retired nfl player who just like only says two things in every episode i love that thats the job i want look at the aj hot corner is it right over there for your pet maxi fan what stick think uh uh im gonna do every segment of today show from a different spot in this room but it is beautiful is very nice its funny um you know we share the studio with other voxing of pockets summer shows so on dreala and event turner record in here and we have a new show uh with making repeat no bird that also records in here in the first time i sub pictures of it was all set up for them and as square is our GameCube uh dont it turns out they just changed the student round to refresh i do think though we should find a way to anker our webi to the shelves so that no one can get rid of our webby anytime you do a podcast you will see the verdcast swebby thats theres the pool i think so i think our YouTube play button is permanently match there we get there so if you are xnfl player sidekick you know we have a million subscriber so you know it in your heart you gotta sit under that thats the mark everybody forever welcome David pierces back from vacation welcome good hi i picked the worst two weeks of all time to be gone uh but ive very happy to be back yeah nothing happened while you were on vacation no including not the like combination of a trial that i covered for months and care deeply about it seems very important to the end the internet like yeah superchill hey， does anybody know anything what the search engineva oh！

i guess the guy who wrote the profile of it isnt here at yeah role bummer i only reported of them for click a year and a half and didnt get to talk about that at the end。

but the good news is that case is gonna go on for 67 more decades so yeah wehave more chance it should be right yeah theres so long period and then Alex you are not freaking a bit on vacation and then you immediately went away to cover the pixel event in term Cisco yeah！

im currently on on the west coast and not in the room with you otherwise so weve gonna use a Pixel to just do they add me feature， put me in there with you but but otherwise its its a good time out here its very nice temperature wise yeah！

the theme of this episode is can you believe your life eyes and the answers fully fully know uh， so lets sorry the pixel theres a lot talk about there is there or is the pixel event which you guys a David i think you covered a little bit on the Tuesday show yeah， um i want to talk about TVs so i love talk about TVs so a lot of gadgets open the show uh then we got a bunch adjust stuff in the app store in the eu happening and of course， we have a lightning around the deeply controversial lighting around i canbelieve i left and you still didnget the lighting around sponsored like thats i wanted to come back from vacation you were like congratulations David here is the lightning around yacht that we all bought we did it but we set the money actually on the set ive gotten all the way to in my head weaving the various vox media corporate meeting so i have to go to with like what if i ended every meeting with dont talk to me until the lightning are sponsored im not sure this would go well im not sure that it would achieve any goals really or even my continue employment but rest to sure ive thought about you feel really cool yeah like why are you talking you within unsponsorlighting？

yeah you sata out just look scarf uh yeah um this is what i think about my storage time is how to get myself fired OK lets talk about the pixel the pixel saw David talk about on the Tuesday share with everybody theres a two parts of the pixel event of that i think are kind of important one was the phone and in the second is that the phone was an introduced until like 20 分钟 sintotheevent because what it really was was rickossroll who now runs Android and Pixel talking about Android becoming the platform for googlesai ambitions and even showing a bunch ai features on Sampsung phones and i theres something there that feels very worth talking about to me the the what you mean the fact that we saw a Samsung phone and a Motorola phone before we saw a Pixel phone yeah， thats the simple way of putting it i think！

faas weird right theres something to that that i think is really interesting its weirdonit isnt uh like its its weird that its not weird is actually where i matt with this because they there there are three things going on here right one is that ricostule overseas android and pixel uh and that is a very hard job weve talked about this that for years Google was like we have a very hard firelaw between our own hardware efforts and our partner ecosystem with Android now is just literally the same dude in charge of it and that is a thats a complicated thing to do especially because for Google， the vast majority of everything that matters about Android does not happen on Pixel phones right， so for Google to come out and say look a Samsung phone that does all this stuff is purely just a recognition of what actually matters to Google， which is the Android business， not the Pixel business like that is just the fact of the matter theotherthing is i think Google thinksai as a thing and Gemini as a thing is more important than all of that right like that is the big bat so you have to lead with Gemini you have to lead with Android and then like a while later you show everybody the phone that you made and then if you if you also believe as i， as i do and i think as Google as that the hardware just exists in service of the software， which exists in service of the ai like it it all ladders up so its weird that Google ostensibly launched a bunch of gadgets in what was not at all a gadget launch but like increasingly this was now twodays ago as were recording， this like it wasnt really a gadget launch like they launched some gadgets， but the main most important thing they talked about was not the gadgets， which is very strange yeah！

i felt more like an io i mean not not in the room it felt like a pixel event in the room。

but the content felt like an io keynote more than a pixel event cause which is get were going to talk about all these really great features that you can now use ai to generate adorable animals in keys here to the Kiki pommer thing im still i got nothing on on shes there between the keykeypalmer thing here and the Sydney sweeney thing at the sale can we just stop with the really awkward celebrity cameos nobody has fun its good for them they get paid that i say triple down Sharks every more Random Neo Patrick Harrison apple event just get out there just whoever it is could be CSE at the apple event lets be with our scargo but not like city sweeney look like a hostage key key Palmer like she got to move around hey said the celebrities free yeah dont dont just make him sit in the care and awkwardly wave she was there sort of a itthe very end right like she was just there to be like ai is great and there i cooled manned in basically yeah but the but the thing youdiscussing more broadly which is Google believes it has a huge distribution advantage for its for Gemini that distrition advantages Android and theyre gonna put it everywhere and embedded into all of their platforms in services we oh sure， we did see that coming out yeah， thats basically what they said and rix message was now the stuff is here shipping like you can get it and then you know they showed it on a bunch of tensorrolefounds and then there like in heres the pixel and then heres a tiny bit of stuff the pixel can do that the others can do which is the add me feature in the photos not right yeah， but theres a sense that Google knows it is better at distributing ai than any of its competence it took a lot， a digit apple for example， just secret， not even secret， just a quiet side swipes at apple throughout this whole event yeah were available in all the languages， apples intelligence isnt we dont have to send your data to a third party apples gonna send some your stuff to open it like downthe line it was Google was just reinforcing that it is building the ai like it has it， it controlls it， it runs in the cloud and the best way to get it is through Android i just dont know if thats gonna get anybody to switch from an iphat like thats actually， the thing that i think is the most interesting here that theyre like android is a place where you get your ai and everyones kind of like OK now well。

i think i think Jim and i live is probably a good example of that cause thats coming to iOS later this year and that theyve been a lot a time on German i live it felt like thats thats there like answer to chat gpts voices and yeah， i really just felt like this moment of OK no， you dont actually just need to be on on an android device and i i personally！

i just keep thinking of the fact that just last week they found out that they somethings gonna happen with Google and one of their biggest revenue drivers is the relationship with the iPhone and so now it feels like there there phone ego system is more important than ever and we just didnt hear a single thing about it besides ai so yeah it is a little it is a little weird that everything hinches on this ai now so what all the big ai companies have been saying is that they think ai is a platform shift you can interpreted a lot of ways like i try to get soon darppachi to explain what that means to me interprechai said it is biggest fire i dont know that theres that many ways to interpret that just the one really yeah hes yeah i mean it should but i i what the way i have interpreted platform shift is people are going to use computers in a different way and that will create many more opportunities to build products and services right？

then if you look back at the history of platform， shifs you go from i dont dos and text based computing to micen keyboards and then you go from local applications to the web and then you go to touchscreens on phones right？

yeah， those are the platforms yeah， if you can think of another way to think about the word platforms shift， please let me know because im sort of dying to figure out how to understand the words platform shift as it relates to ai and all ive come up with in that framework is oh， youre gonna talk to the computer instead of typing， which is an apply what like thats a platform shift we already had bra except now we can do it except a accept now jaminite life can just like listen to you and maybe take actions on your rehalf and maybe youre gonna type to it maybe youjust gonna say i dont know like go make me an app the can do x in general i will spit it out and ill be fine yeah or Siri on with appontoligenes will go use the apps for you！

which is something that apple has you know its not gonna ship but its its what they previewed it wwdc that is thats the platform shift thats the platform shift that last piece is the real platform shift and this is this is what im hearing from people forever uh i think it was Paul Ford recently wrote a really good thing about this or hes he said right now were in the the like commandline era of ai， which is like the tech is kind of under there but nobody has figured out how to use it yet ah and the idea that youre going to base essentially use a command line to a interactive it， which is essentially what writing an ai prompt is is fine as far as it goes but thats not the main stream answer and that actually what needs to happen is everybody needs to invent the interface on top of that that makes it interesting and that we have not seen but i think the the thing that i hear from everybody is like this starts to get really interesting when we get to， the it can use your apps for you phase of all of this because thats where you actually do use your computer differently because right now its like you right you can look up information by talking， instead of by typing and and extra point a that exists b its not better， like its not better its different its a little faster but its not better and axe you views Gemini live a little some im curious to hear what you think but like were still at this point where it it is it is sort of a technology in search of a user interface yeah and i think i didnt like you see a lot of Google like poking at that i think the Pixel screen shots thing， which we should talk about in， which i am on record of being fassive by is an interesting version of that but like how you actually push in pull with this thing is such an unanswer question in so so many ways i feel like they they they definitout like like i i only spent a little time with two and nine live it was me in shanghalist and Allison！

all a Johnson all in our little room trying to talk to this thing and was it the say ipixturing a demo like the ChatGPT one yeah yeah phone on a table yeah yeah you have to hold the phone like like i couldnt stand far away from the phone you have to hold the phone really close to yourself because otherwise， but i really struggled with it because i try to be very polite and conversations and like oh of your talking im gonna usually let you finish not always as verch test re listreders can attest but im usually gonna let you finish and and this one youlike encouraged interrupted and in your encouraged to interact with it anyway， that would be like really rude if you were interacting with a person and so its at one point wants you to feel like its more human and more realistic and at the other point， its doing that and then like i got in a fight with it because wouldnt shut up yeah so i told it was man splading me and it was like oh im sorry do you want me to change my tone of my voice and i was like and was little sassy when it said it i was just like i just get like talk clap back to that by ai yes and then yeah and then and xion was like i got this and John just went and it was like no shut up i have a question and just a media lives no no shush me now and and so like he was basically a dic to it and it worked perfectly and like was he like so who knows more about the steam duck he were me he might have asked that but we we may he mainly asked for top stock tips and that it was like i i wouldnt personally invest in Bitcoin but you can do that if you want its just crash highress are very first Gemini scandle uh no thats i scandle shes good advice uh yeah heres my question so you you use it you talk to it has some personality this is this is the thing like this is how Google is talking about beating open ai right？

right open ai is gonna put out its voice in its gonna sound like scroll your hands are not so that personality it it takes a breath in the middle of counting numbers as fasses again weve all seen that video its like theycompeting on personality not content right theycompeyeah because some stuff it did really really well for me like i。

i asked to fix something it took me a while to fix on my cup car and it did it in thirty seconds said it was just great and another stuff it really struggled with it it struggled to understand the questions and if like uh somebody compared it to being a kind of a friend and i wouldnt have friends like this thing because it it just talks it doesnt listen to you。

it doesnt respond to you in in the way that a friend might and its but its at the same time its a computer so youre just in this weird space for your like am i having to be nice to my computer i dont necessarily want that i want it to just be my computer what you want i think that the thesis of the verge is a whole as a publication is do i have to be nice to my computer yeah no and weve been struggling to figure out that answer for quite sometime but i do think it in a way those companies uh pushing that stuff are kind of telling on themselves about the actual state of the technology right because what has been true for sixty years is that if you give a computer any kind of personality people will fall in love with it and try to have sex with it and tell it their deeper starting secrets like its just true like you you we we did a video about this a while ago that was very fun and its like in the sevenes this guy made a thing that basically all it did was say your commands back to you as a question and you be like you know my father was mean to me and it would be like your father was mean to you and people were like oh my god it understand this is Eliza right yes， that was Eliza yeah and and thats thats actually， a really powerful thing and i think one other thing i miss was on dication was all the friendstrama uh i wrote the story about this guy who launched an ai friend and it everybody went not on the internet because there was drama about who owned it is a whole thing uh im very happy i missed all of that drama but one of the things that Abby the the ceo said to me was he was like good the reason im doing this is because its the only thing ai is anygood at right now and i think thats right that there is there is vast gaps between where we are right now with this technology and like true utility in peoples lives but its pretty easy to make one of these like fun as heltotalk to because its not that hard to make them fun as hell to talk to so what theyre able to compete on right now is making them fun as how to talk to because that wont make people use them more even if they cant do very much and the things that they do they dont do very well and so if youjust using this is like a row straightforward robotic task machine youre gonna notice its bad and youre gonna hate it yeah but if you make it fun and cool and friendly and exciting。

it doesnt have to do that much right and i think thats a fine road to go down but it is so not the same thing as like making it more useful to people so let me put that into the framework of the question i was asking out so you were using Gemini live did any of it feel like the platform shift because that is the big question right if youre your Microsoft in your point billions of dollars into this because you missed mobile right this is your chance to reclaim the primary user？

interface or computer so here Google and youre basically communicating that youre gonna bet the company on this is it there is a is our evidence that that is real because i dont i dont know i honestly dont know i its no no i i think right now no yeah i think i think right now they quit the answer is no for me i think it is a valuable tool i was talking with people afterwards who dont even work at Google work and other companies about the these kind of things and they were like oh yeah， i really like it because its a good brainstorming tool its a good way for me to like just figure some stuff out and i im not gonna brainstorm that way person thats its fun to talk to like that yeah its fun to talk to but but like i didnt feel this urged she just oh i want this in my car i did actually want her my car immediately so never mind i did feel that platform shift yeah！

unslightly manexplaining to her yeah！

it was like so manslanning it was very upsetting， but you like as a as a voice as as if you think of it as part of that the evolution of the voice assistant as the digital voice assistant its a lot better it is a huge improvement of assistant as a huge improvement of a Syrian an l an Alexa， but is it a replacement for computing general like general computing no absolutely not its not a platform ship for my phone its a platform ship for my Alexa yeah！

well， i think even the question of is it better than Google assistant or Siri or Alexa is a really interesting one because one of the things that happening is Gemini is replacing Google assistant kind of all over Android， which is a big deal like it wasnt that long ago that Google was out here being like Google assistant is the future of everything uh and now its very clearly Gemini and there have been a bunch people out there testing early versions of this thing obviously theyre early well see uh and he just cant do some of the very very timer things you would expect thats what right and so its like OK you have this thing that is more fun to talk to understands you better does the sort of basic interface tasks way better like orders of magnitude better than the stuff that we had before but it cant do the things uh i think it was Jerry new in it fast company wrote a thing or hes like it cant tell me what the weather is it cant play the podcasts that i have played because it doesnt access to my apps it doesnt do turn by turn directions very well just all these basic things its like OK what Google assistant had is is access to the systems that you actually want on your phone right like it was able to use your apps for you and Gemini cant use your apps for you but were replacing the one with the other before it can do both things which to me is just its like its so clear that that is what Google thinks is more important it feels like a big rush but im also i feel not concerned about i feel like thats the kind of thing that they can do a software update and be like yeah now it can do timer now it can tell you the weather like those are should be relatively easy things they just pipe in and i think they just havent because theyve been moving that quickly to turn this out and then compete with apple like to the point of they this is a whole event happened a month before what we assume is gonna be the apple the iPhone launch and tradition is how old and October and that was very i think everybody in the industry is just like oh！

thats just to get ahead of apple intelligence and so it definantly feels like theyre there， theyre rushing it but at the same time， theres a level of polished there， but its not perfect right like like theres with with syriet assistant stuff like that you ask a question and itll pop up something contextually on the screen for you， so you can see it theres， theres a visual component and theres zero visual component here and i think that if anything was the most annoying hmm element of it， because you ask it for question。

you just expect to see some sort of result in front of you and said you just see this little gloy screen and is like OK cool like that be that be cool in my media glasses thats just not cool on my phone thats always to my phone even wanna use the chat jvt voice mode which i think of set the source types i have mapped the action button on my iPhone uh halfway through it talking like i just need to read this like yeah yeah tired of this like uh i can just read much faster than you can you can machine talk to me robot weve gonna get another runner this when the phones come out were obviously gonna get a chance to use it more i wanna talk for one second to wrap up the Android Pixel ai conversation and just talk about the the photo stuff for half a second i feel like i could spend five hours talking about what is a photo right now i would say historically speaking that that web proven that several time so you know the the Pixel lines coming out but has got a chance to use the add me feature and some other photo stuff you can go watch that video but were just in a really weird spot where it seems like the phone makers in particular have utterly given up on the idea that the pictures they take should represent reality what was the line that you pulled out nei were like Google was like！

were not even we they dont they dont do photos anymore yes！

so Julian it wire did the piece on the pixel camera this year set down with much Google focus talk about the camera and new features and why its better inbasilisthesis Google is tracing memory is not photos and so he talk to a Google pm name Isaac renelds， who says quote its about what youre remembering when you define a memory that has a falability to it， you can have a true and perfect representation of a moment that felt completely， fake and wrong whatsomeof these edits do is helpyoucreate a moment that is the way you rememberate that is authentic to your memory and the greater context but maybe isn authentic to a particular millisecond wow， theres a thats a PhD thesis seriously its beautiful that is a PhD thesis in philosophy right there but what is real is it？

what you remember or what actually happened？

i dont e a PhD thesis im just telling you you can spend the rest of your life chasing down that question and Google has just made a decision that what they want to do is help people create the memories they felt they were experiencing as opposed to capturing what actually happened and theyre just headed down that road they have been for sometime i think not just Google thats everybody like thats a pretty good summation of the whole industry right now yeah it its its bananas to me because we live in a time when like synthetic and fake media is everywhere and you can even see that having it exists at all allows bad actors to call into question the significancer reality of real media so Trump saying the Haris rally was quote ai which can we not can we can just pause real fast like can we not with the ai as a verb like ai already means too many things its a its a huge catch all word that has become sort of meaningless can we not make it other parts of speech to i agree it we should not use language way dont Trump use is language but what im getting at is you only get to do that if people believethe technology can do it and it is true the people have believed the technology can do the stuff for years before can but now theyre going to hold in their hands the capability on a Samsung phone to circle nmt field and say add a crowd right they can just do it they are going to hold in their hands the ability to add people the photos who wert there before with add me on a Google Pixel and the company is are marketing this is this makes you more creative lets you take the photos you want and now for Google all the way to we want you to create the memories of the things you thought were happening rather than the things that were happening happy i havent like chinesephone makers been doing that with we want to create what i think i look like versus what i actually look like with the facetuning like sure its been happening a while i i its one of those things i think but shockingtome is the ease of access of the tool itself but im not like shocked at putting these tools in the phone but its weird that they put it in the camera app the add me feature is not like the most ai its its generating you right doing a bunch a cool stuff but on a technical level its its doing something cool right its generating a depth map， and then using a depth map to realign the multiple photos thats all very cool and im confident there is much ai and there that is helping to do that but it uh it the most fundamental level what its doing is compositing two photos together like you look at the photos that the Hollywood magazines put out with like 500 stars in the cover those are often composite photo some you know！

those are admyphotos like every single poster movie poster you see is one of those add me photos but like right。

but im never like i wonderif this movieposter happened what right？

but i will also say the why i get to try it out a little bit at the event and adv is certainly really cool but also， i would say its like a the royal family level of photoshopping abilities do deep cut Alex you see some you see some like hands where hands should not be that sort of thing sometimes so its one of the seeks were like yeah itll do it at a glance it looks awesome it looks really really cool you look closer and and you see the edges on this stuff i have got to try out as a all of these tools but like even the the ai one where you circle things and add like messed up at the event they scroll through it really really pass when they really theyre like heres a hot airballoon and then they like did another one of like a blob in the guy like just speed scrolled passes coral a more face blob it was pretty great all im getting at is does tools arent great but because they exist in they are broadaccessible！

its not just that theres a bunch of synthetic photos we can point at and say those are fake bad actors are able to point it real photos and say they are fake and we are just bearing towards no one believes anything they see ui i think were already there there is a strong argument were already there but do you guys remember a bunch years ago far had mange you when he was a thing art times wrote this really great column about selfie culture uh and his big sort of the thinky thought that ive been thinking but ever since was basically like wev weventered into a place where everything that there is to be photographed is been photographed and so now whatdifferent is that im there and thats its like a its meaningful thing right its like im this picture is different because it has me in it in the grand Canyon youve already seen pictures the grand Canyon， so people are putting themselves in it as like this is a this is a new way of seeing this because im here something like add me just breaks that in the most interesting way， its like we talk about sort of the cultural meaning of photos and i i was seen bunch people during the Google event be like how on earth can of photo first social network exist after this like it if it if suddenly， i can be anywhere at any time doing whatever！

i feel like just gets weird and i get that add me has some like limitations that make that challenging i mean arguably the photo first social media has been weird for a while given that like influencers rent sets that look like planes yeah i need to get a plane， but at least that like cost money and time and effort yeah we have yeah everything i agree like like what pixel is that what Google has done is just remove autona barriers that were already existed right like photoshop rd existed people faking photos has been happening forever yeah but now its just like it didns point really really easy yeah its Samsung faking the moon but its you and its everywhere like that weird two things one i we should have made this set look like a private chat uh what were we thinking oh my god？

we should we fund the mentor airlyam this should look like a pj lying down in the pj， im so mad that this room doesnt look like at the inside of a private yet uh second， but were tying the the cost element the brand of David is the thing yeah its the thing when when made fake dinosaurs in Jurassic park， there was not a widespread outcry about people a small outcry somewhere im sure yeah right theres actually， one line from that movie that should have got even more outcry， which is you were so busy wondering if you could never right， im just pointing out ah， but when you make it so that everyones phone thats raptors in every photo and they look real and you brought the cost nothing some people are gonna believe some dumb stuff in like were just there and i i agree to you like it we might be way passed the point in overturn were people are just not gonna believe anythings true anymore yeah， like the needle might just be in the red im just deeply centical we the way we i think we wrote with the pixel eight last year that we were at the what is a federal apocalibs yeah， im just saying im looking at it now and theres no longer when we write about the pixelate there was some push back like were not doing this weve been careful youre over reacting and then this year theyre like you can just put yourself enough right and its like oh were over it but theres just a lot there to talk about were gonna get the phones i think we should see how well they work as always yeah but theres a piece of all of this especially in election season where i suspect we are going to be talking about whether or not people believe what they see for a long time down because it just its fully off the rails all right we should take a break were gonna come back and were gonna talk about policy i promise you its gonna happen were right back with more purchasted！

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your social security and remember any kind of banking information encounering a crime like this can be a little disorienting strangerthanfiction even almost like your inatv show comment safe scroll we got a ten three thats why safe squad was made the hotus new fictional crime drama all about how to protect yourself from financial crimes copythat dispatch whereon it remember never send money online to people you dont already know and trust learn how you can spot the signs of a scam so you dont have to call the safeid by visiting www dotbox dot com slash safeid hq！

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super here， um meganorpeno womensports are reaching new heights these days and theres so much to talk about so Megan and i are launching a podcast where were gonna deep dive into all things sports and then some were calling it a touchmore because womensports is everything popculture， economics， politics you name it and theres no better folks than us to talk about what happens on the court or on the field and everyrerelseto and will have a whole bunch of friends on the show to help us break things down were talking athletes actors comedians maybe even our moms that would be a fun episode whethersbreaking downthebiggest games or discussing the latest headlines will be bringing a touchmore insight into the world of sportsmbeyond follow a touchmore wherever you get your podcast new episodestrap everywedstay！

all right back im in a different share in the studio im on this im on this side of the share its much more like regal like i want you to give me investment advice from this chair for some reason should be invested that but i will tell you to smoke all the cigars you can smoke thats this feels like to me like i should be giving burbin and cicr advice who should start that show and my answers to get have as much as you want thats theyre fine what yeah fuck this two or three in theyre all the same really， alright thats not we do wedon enough philosophizing about ai and platform shifts and whether not reality is real lets talk but the most important tech story of the week， which is that as promised i published 25 words about judging the 2024TV shootout Ive never been happyoud my entire life doingtheshootoutwriting thewords， avoiding the many other lawsuits that happened this week because if you remember last week， i was gonna do it and then the Google decision came out the whole week got throanyway and i couldntalk about TVs this week i just ignored everything people also really ruining everybodys life is what im hearing yeah， its been a hard time on all of us i think we and what one assumes for Google um we should we we theres some right lets subtalk about Google is in a world of her right now what will come to that later but we did it again were gonna talk about TVs we start talking， tell spot the TVs concepts are so inextricably linked for some bizarre reason why no TVs were no TVs？

theres a really high end vt comtheater store in scarsale New York called value tronics even running the tv shoot out for twentyyears this was the twentyth one you can go Google all the coverage from twenty years or two thousand four the classmen are at amazing the whole thing is amazing uh i bought my Sony a nine five l there because they have stock its actually pretty hard to get that tv but they sell so many of them that Sony gives them socialallocations i wouldnbot one from them i got such an to the owner， Robertson and his wife， Wendy uh and they are like do you want to judge the shoot out this year and i just imagine i was like yes， like more than anything im just gonna my wife and daughter will be fine ijust wait here until shoot up against i call the end to judge it it was an incredible panel like the i you can look at the story， uh the pictures are adorable it was just a bunch of nerds in a room and like they clean they cleared out the store and they set up uh three TVs， three oled and three minilid from Samsung Sony in lg um and they put 40 dollar Sony reference monitors like the ones these are holly coloring in Hollywood in front of them and then the the first day was quote the objective day where the the task was across a number of clips that they were playing to judge how similar the TVs were to the reference displays and the TVs have been professionally calibrated by like famous calibrators on the abs forms can need i was like in heaven thats an amazing phrase you just said by the way yeah calirate by famous calibrators like hell yeah， no youre an ABS forum nerd and you have ever just like gone and looked for the settings for a tv it was probably cessl， need or doing Davis thats awesome who go by classy technd nice， i was in heaven heaven like i just a bunch in nerds talking about TVs so where is where were you on？

the on the list of like panalists and experts from most to least qualified where would you say you were fully？

the least OK all the other judges are basically like hollywith types um OK so the director of encoding services at Warner Brothers discovery the senior director of technical Operations at Paramount， a handful of professional cineto cinematograph version directors a handful of professional calibrators so calibrators are thats a real job in this industry， people set up their studios they bring in the professional calibrators to make sure everything is displaying accurately at every point in the chain so from your camera to your display to your master display this is a real thing and so those people have kind of the most knowledge of all of the quirks of all of the various displays， because theyre constantly trying to get them to display accurately and so it what was particularly interesting is they know these TVs really well， because these TVs are shopping up， increasingly in professional operations， because fancy studio executeis like watching things on big TVs， instead of little reference monitors and theyre like yeah， these Sony A95 hours are showing up all over the place as referencedisplays for the executives and so they just obs they do fancy compares another fewing rooms and other sub so is really interesting talk to them because theyre in the weeds of what these things can and cant do yeah sort of divorced from any marketing or whatever like theyre just trying to make them look good professionally and there they are completely weared the limits of the TVs so eventheres me and im like yeah i just been looking at screens for fifteen years time a lot of opinions and i thought that was i was kind of interesting to be that person because it would like we wert supposed to talk to each other so much but in in the conversation， we had it was kind of interesting how much my instance were to compare things to like phones and tablets and you can see how the TVs relate to what these companies do on their phones in talits so i was looking at the same song and i was like oh that looks like a same song like i have looked at a lot of Samsung screens over the years emboid a Samsung like nuclear colors yeah yeah Sampson has a move for sure yeah yeah like oh and there and theyre like what did they do that im like i dont know they just always do that like every sampsung split ever looked at has just been incredibly bright and colorful even a decsense vaccuracy and it that was kind it was kind interesting to just have that other perspective in the room they obviously knew more on the technical elements of the displays like they were theycantbring up the reference curves on the reference display allow and binglike see this and ive like its align like make it brighter and eventually you know you start to pick up on what they are showing you um but it was just like is interesting have that other perspective so that the fastthing thing about all of this is this is the year that Sony made a big bet on many led TVs as opposer oled so Sony still selling much oled the flagship tv is still an oled thats a a 95L thats a year old now that came out last year last tember basically um but you know were basically a year into it in the eight nine five l one again but you just want the shootat and last years tv last yeartv want the showapp thats a quantum dot oled so as a wider color gamit we think its a Sampson panel pretty much as a Sampson panel and then this years Sampson oled we think is the like the next generation quantum dot oled but Samsung a Samsung and i did some weird stuff for colors and like it lost by just like point one okay right was just a little bit behind in some things because and then the lg was at the back and so this is he a really weired thing is the sixfive inch lgg for performed much worse than the eighty three inch lgg for and that calibrators nerroom who have been like setting up these TVs were different people are like this is the story of these TVs， the fifty five and then the seventy seven and up we are great the sixty five seems to be worse oh， no i have to go get a new tv what i mean like at one take away ill give everyone is like the old are so close to each other that it was taking like three times the amount of time to score them as compared to the reference because you had to see where the differences are wheres on the mini led side youlike OK the lg spache， problems right yeah and so that the game on that first day was you get the reference display that was showing ideally what you know the studio or whoever wants you to see in a picture thats the references way we can ask really dumb question yeah is a reference display like the best one like is that should is that how we should think about referencedisplay is like this is the perfects television yes， no yes， yes or no the i alagree the outs partially， but no， its the most accurrepresentation of like the content。

so its the one that like changes the least through the whole pipeline yeah！

its like you have a display and uh， it is ideally the same display is the person who did the color on the movie got it right and if i sometimes display this performance identically to that。

but its also like it does stuff that an oled just cant do right like like a reference display is gonna do a much smoother gradient of color than than an oled capable gonna see those weird stepping that stepping issue and an oled and right？

so these these Sony bvms were a dual layer lcd so they they were able to do it they right they had some people they see oled student um they also have giant as fans in them so they could run really bright for a very long time all the oleds were dimming you could like 40 dollars 40 yeah， cool OK interesting theyre also small the qd oled have the capability of displaying more colors than these reference displays so theres places where they actually art is capable as the telems right because and so there were there were scenes i forget which maybe it specifically was where we were it was i think was like the the saber fight and rug one or Darth Vader like in people up and spoiler i mean row one is actually really good one for that yeah great um spoiler Darth feature kills people on a starling way um what uh oh no but one of the questions there was like is the accurate because the people who made the movie were just sort of mastering to whatever set a colors but they couldnt see them so that is like is a different as a bad it was kind that was pretty interesting right yeah and so the uh the reason that the first day was objective， but the goal was one out of five how much is this？

the same is the referencethis way？

which is a really interesting way of thinking about it a picture because sometimes you like this is better i think this is better than the references play but it was different so he knocked it down and that took a while to get your your head around basically this is where like i just accuracy is kingfor me and TVs because i have done the calibration like im i went to to that to isf and did like the weeklong course with them and everything so i i love the accuracy and so when i hear like oh， the Samsung is probably doing more she displaying more redis well， those reds were never intended to be displayed according to the reference monitor， so is that actually better no because thats yeah they like the the director could never decide at that so therefore stop better no we see that a lot with like classic film to like all the all the stuff they capture dont techter color is so much more vibrant that was before we even had color spaces is like a concept and uh and so its just wholydifferent and its weird its just weird so youre a real like what？

did the what did the founding fathers intend can yeah yeah i im a founders in ten im yeah me in scalia or this is over there yeah youre truly the ancininstallia of tv calibrations wheres nei is just like what looks sick now like twenty twenty four baby giving them reits la and shot famously love the Samsung this one have any frame tvc one not even in the mix i just put i was just put it out there im sitting next like a hundred inch frame tv and its like the t tv quality of frame compared all of these is like man thats why your back to it can you describe it a picture quality is present disassamsung appears thats what a Samsung frame do you look like what fasting on the minius she always already close out like yeah yeah some color stuff side and this like you know the fact that the qd olets have a wider color gamit is like kind of interesting but like outside of that context it would be almost possible token part yeah and that an honestly was like the way you could tell was it was taking so long for people to score them 嗯， because the difference between a four and a five was like oh， my seen anything what is it？

it was only the lg that was like it just was really muddy and dark scenes it just like didnhave the detail dark scenes of the other one said weird on the mini lady side everyone was like alright that ones bad this onegood except for the Sony because Sony is putting so much emphasis on mini lady this year like theyre the bravia nine， which apart from the a nine five is like the flagship its the one theyre pushing all many LEDs they get held right because theyjust lcddvs with an led backlight and youre like oh this tech has a long way to go and could get there， but its no worclass like they look kind of washed out the colors are a little shifted the details in quite there， theystill little blooming so if he think about how a mini led back like works， its just another screen of pixels behind the screen that light up like its a lower red screen behind the screen that lights up to produce light and it has to match whats on the screen in real time so you get true what so theyre off when theyre something black and theyre lit when theysomething on the screen so theres any latency you see blooming hmm right or if the zone is too big because its not one to one you see blooming and so you can see any algorithms are like trina manage all of this as fast as they can with as little latency as possible the Samsung is like all over the place， like sometimes like this is looks like a regular tv the Sony was much better but so had the problems and then all of them because are lcds theyre viewing angles are as good as the olets and theyre huge right theres 65 bench eighty three inches were looking at so if you were too close to them， even just moving an inter to the left or right shifted all the color on brightness anyway， oh were just not close like it Sony is trying the hardest here but were not close i i just i dont understand why we would go backwards on viewing angle because theyre cheaper because you can get a threh tv for much cheaper and so very bright and ceran impressive and outside of that room who of the most incredible display nerds Ive ever met my entire life and i want all them to come on with me tomorrow outside of that room i think youll be there hard to tell these TVs apart but it was like just that experience of paying such close attention to one quality of these products with other people who were doing that same task whos like very refreshing to me we werent judging whether or not tizin is any good compared to webos we werent judging have any hdmy two point one ports the Sony tv has not enough right like none of that stuff game mode all that we were like can this picture be calibrated to match a reference monitor in which one comes closer and that i， i？

i theres just a part of that having reviewed so many products of the years and had to think about so many things its like oh this is actually a really interesting way of thinking about these product specifically was there consistent agreement among the what was it eight panalists thats a lot of people the all point at this same like its both objective and subjective in a certain way like did everybody tend to agree on everything um we wert。

we we were also excited to be there uh when we started judging， we were all chattering， and then we were all told to stop OK， so our score i dont know what everybody else can worry for me is like the consumer reviewer in the group was that i had no idea what i socking about i was like man i hope my scores are close um then they were in the end you know the the average the the averages that were released in the rankings that were released were exactly as i had thought them look at you didnt see something like i was in the main stream you know， um i think the one lg stand in the room whos like i love blooming that lg mini is not good like yeah its like a half hearted and to be fair it was the cheapest tv on display yeah thousands of dollars so they put all their efforts into olets anyway， like they just forted that out yeah that it is like lets header about a little bit like maybe this is the thing um but yeah， they have the microlensarray which increases the brightness on their oleads like i said the o the three oleads are so close to each other you can tell that its a match or technology right its it just hit a point of refinement where you have to care a lot about extremely like rcane picture details hmm in Alex， i think you and i vibe on this like yeah i care a lot about arcane picture details the mini ladys is like all of it my notes on the color for the sunny bravia nine were was just the single sentence colors all over the map like just all over the place like just who knows is going on here so that was like the first day， the second day was much more subjective they took down the sixfives they put up the biggest available sizes for all the TVs so that was 77 for the Sony eighty three for the lg eighty five for the minilities and the Roberts on the owner was like Ive never had more people ask for a headcomparison of two TVs the people ask the lgg for eighty three versus the Sonny mini ldi eighty five because theyre very theyre very price competitive in one is obvic bigger right thats tps people have big sheep screens um theres like this is whatever unwants to see so those two are right next each other and the lg just wiped the floor black so much better just incredibly better and the fact of the lg 5 thats whatever run talk about but we werent doing the intense reference compares not they they took on they they set them up out of the box they turned on film maker mode to turn off all the bullshut um and they turn off energy save or because energy save or brings a brightness down yeah yeah energy save is the number one thing you should turn off on your display i mean destroy destroy the environment but just go turn if you have it on right now go turn it off right but it just significantly reduces right to server panel so they turn off energy save really put them in filmiker mode or any Sony calls professional mode just turns off all the stuff and they let them run out of the box and thats were like Samsung what is the most Samsung like you co colors do you like them？

um uh and i you know the the lg the eighty three inch lg just what was just a great picture？

right？

look it it was right behind the Sony in that evaluation but we wert doing numbers we were just sort of ranking one two three for all the clips that we saw then i at the end uh and we can wrap it up here at the end i was basically put the Samsung QD OLED best 95D and the Sony men led were in a tie for me it was hard it was hard for me to decide because the Sampson colors were so all over the place and the sunnees back like was so over the place the building angels were and i couldndecide and in the end i was like its an oled because i know the Sampson can be calibrated and i know the Sony can thats highpec again like my takeaway from this was one？

i should spend more time in rooms with huge nerds yes， uh because those are my people and doesnt say what like dollars worth of TVs and more i mean like this store is out of control uh wait thats just the TVs we didnt talk with the audio side of the store is a wealthy town this may hit were moving product um i respect any sales you know the country and theyre doing it from long time the room was full of sonys actual Mart like product people not just what so this like matters this is not just like a year small town bunch nerds this is like a tv shoot out is a thing theres a pressurelease of like a whole thing like there are youtubers there making YouTube videos there are youtubers alive streaming with the calibrators just talking TVs in the backroom uh yeah！

i already size you like ten thousand words on the calibrators。

so thats coming thats actually！

a great name for a show the calibrators that is pretty good i would i would watch it and the picture over the course of every episode the picture just gets slightly better！

just give it a ten just say god actually！

so disappointed im iok im OK？

im working through it ive be fine Alex if you want ill take your crappy tv uh anyone who would like to give me theyre very good TVs i will happly take them with no complaints whatsos really？

oh， its so crappy oh！

its terrible yeah can i say can i say one more thing at the uh o at the opening solevent um theytregnment the tvis like what they are and all the stuff uh and they said two things one uh theyre like tc on highstance are in here they asked not to be included on a competition cause they were gonna lose you can just you can just read into that and then later was like one year visio is here and was embarrassing oh boy thats you reading that whatever you want is your rough so real like i will not be running for president in twenty 24 kind of labs yeah， OK that was it？

that was my tv adventure thank you for joining me on the string this is why i sort of the verge so i could sit in room full tv this dont like you that next year did you do a good enough job？

i hope so i hope can can can we come with you just will be quiet wejust stand there its not a live stream that next year i ask Christmas i dont wanna get in that level smocket i respect that yeah it was great all right we should talk about just a handful of i dont regulatory things so what you want to call them but the main one that i really want to spend just a minute on uh is apple and it just cant give it self a break when it comes the appstore in feeds we get some troublestair all over the world right， it has an anetrust lawsuit in this country in the eu， various charming European beer cats wake up every morning thinking out waste true true Tim cook on twitter like this companies under a lot of pressure and then i wont just do things that make it slifeeasier i dont how to describe this， but this is im just im going to tell you this story and you you if people are there can figure out why apple did this let us know so patreon access right you can you can be a fan or someone you can pay them some money to do whatever people on pattern do nit clothes make video games whatever is pattern theyven in a grayzone with the app store for years because you can pay people money in patreon and they havenbeen charging the feed where they havenbeen giving up all the thirty percent and actually had patreon cojec conte on decoder a while ago and i said to you over talk tab about this like are you an exception he is like no， please stop to talk yeah right like they know theyre on the square yeah OK， and there there are other companies that want to do pattern like things like this little company fanhouse right and they did a whole pressure campaign to say why are you charging our creator 30 percent like this is on fair you provide no value to them right and the it because the idea is if you sign up for a creator subscription inside of the app。

apple will treat that as an inapp purchase and take it thirty percent right yeah， OK！

so they they see signing up for whatever my favorite podcast on patrion the at the same as signing up for Spotify through the app sure and if you want to be a very pedentic that is probably the correct except that four years it wasnt like right that feels important to keep saying except particularly for patrion theyve been in the script for years you do are a patrion Creator you sign up for patreon you agree your pattern is gonna take 8 percent and youre gonna take the rest the money thats its fine thats a fine deal uh apples like when we are thirty percent before pagerantics 8 percent so now it i someone did the math instead of needing a thousand tree fans just the number everybodyalways says you need fifteen hundred 54 fans like to make the same money that you were doing before thats weird init is weird because apple doesnt need this fight right now because its under all of this pressure for whether not these feature fair with the appsource fair whether apple has too much power in the market overall anitresourcesetthis country we figured out why they did it yeah so whoever sent the email i was like OK were gonna！

were gonna create， were gonna start charging to thirty percent of Patreon is actually like was placed there by someone else to just make apple give up this to you know like department adjust sleep yeah yeah somebody like like like there theyre just a spy or something and they were said it because it just it doesnt but what why would you do that on the calibrators yeah， yeah the calibrators winning they like they， they like they they paracsuted in and they were like OK， were gonna do this so that we give even more ammunition for when we go after apple for all the things were going after apple for around the thirty percent yeah！

maybe i it just seems like there are ways to make your life easier and there are ways to make your life harder pissing off a bunch of independent creators to whom you are providing no value right you can make the argument that apple provides a lot of value to its developers right they make the apis， the ship， the platform they run some of the services they make xcode sure adds very debatible like truly debatible yeah but you can make the argument and a lot of people have if you are a patrion creator， no values coming your way from apple he right， actually comes from Patreon and you already paying them money right so like why apple sharing up in me like we want thirty percent that its like too much and i suspect a lot these feature and creators are going to tell the audience is about it and now apples right in a fight with creatives do they sort keep walking into like theyre crush add they do apologies for yep like why they just keep making her life harder with these creatives and i i just dont know for what money like how like if you took thirty percent of all patterans revenue and you gave it to Tim cook hed like get out of my face yeah like this is nothing yeah like this is even gas for the jet if probably isnt the only thing i can think is that apple is desperately trying to get to a place right can say with a straight face that it enforces all of its rules equally because one of the things that is happened to apple over and over is that it keeps saying these are the rules and we were very clear about them when we apply them to everybody and then every fifteen minutes we hear about a sweetheart deal that somebody has from apple right and there are the rules exists except for all the exceptions to the rules and i think if if your apple。

one thing to do would be to say OK， were gonna need to be able to stand up the regulators and say look these are the rules they exist for everybody everybody follows the meekly i dont think thats a good strategy i dont think its gonna work but i think if your apple， it is at least one way to be able to say with the straight face look these are the rules were clear about them you you you dont have to play by them anymore because you can go to altstore or whatever， but these are the rules i think doing this this way and particularly in these very like half hazard ways that apple seems to be doing this is deeply bizor but i think if if your apple i cant think of another reason to pick this particular fight with patry on right now other than that whatso just to be clearing some timing they told pitch and singhappening a while ago and that just happening but theres no reason that it should be happening so thats like its not that they woke up yesterday or right patterns not pass they said heres a big notice period and outhappening and now pageranscommunicatingabout it right！

so a more delayed timeline but still even if you want to make the argument， we have perfect enforcement of these rules there are no exceptions youre still walking into and wepissed everyone off along the way ive give you another example， um apple is going to allow Spotify to show pricing in its app in the u， at just the the thing that is happening is it Spotify is gonna put numbers in its app you still get by Spotify in the app there is a theres i i really encourage everyone if youre not driving to！

i will put this link in the show notes but open it up and look at the side by side screen shots because it is this like big dramatic regulatory moment in this long term fight between apple and Spotify its a big deal and then you look at the side my side screen chat and they are identical except that one of them says seventeen 99 per month！

1499 per month any other doesnt thats it and they stick like you know one of them more powerful gothermen entsease in more history to like force the one of the richest companies in more history to let another company show numbers and youlike what is the point of this fight who gives one solid shit thats like you cant possibly care it this can not matter to your bottom line so much or and it can be such a good argument that your rules are so evenly enforced the year willing to dynaso over displaying literally 1799 in the Spotify up。

but they not even nothing people buy stuff just showing the price you can get on the web versus in the app the only part of that i would take issue with is the it that it cant possibly matter so much to your bottom line i mean like apple just reported learnings its super super does matter to apples bottom line and especially if your apple looking at a world in which Google is no longer legally allowed to give you twentybillion dollars every year like this stuff matters an awful lot to app and suddenly the the the rent that you get to extract from everyone on the appstore goes from a like small but meaningful part of your business to like a giant and meaningful part of your business yeah！

do you think thats part of it too is just they there there services they cause theyve been bundling that twenty billion into the services reported right yeah its its the lions share of both the services revenue and apples profits and and theyve been really big on yeah this is this is our services is doing great and now its gonna be like no it actually！

it doesnt what the Google remedy is years away okay， so i reacting to the Google case by the clamping deadline patrion that would be a wheel shortsighted again i i think i dont think its gas for the jet but it is not a huge run of money but i think theyre general attitude towards， all of these regulators and all these courts sing yep these platforms need to open up has basically been to put a middle finger in there instead of figring out how to innovate mm hmm right and like icky i like i just im just saying they could make their lives easier not harder and they are consistently choosing harder yeah， it is bizarre to me theres little more right is hardstockback because this coms right next to the judge in the epic Google an adtrust case saying he will tear the barriers down on the place twere because he ruled the place orism in operate and he is like were opening up the place or United States the obviously the court in the Google search case found that there is monopoly in in Google add tech case kicks off in early September in that probably is not gonna go port like of all of the cases where were gonna see a bunch of emails of Google executive sing shady things about money the ad check case is the one oh yeah right its gonna create the one its so boring and so consequential you right， so you just see like Google is under all of this pressure in the the judges in these cases and the regulators in you are like renterus company part an apple sitting there with the big open and adtrust case to come an obviously empowered justice department because i just won the big Google trial， i got the next one comment and then a bunch， a regulator sort and its like why are you signaling to all these people that your response that is putting your finger in there like itsogonna work because theyre winning right now against Google in a real way and maybe Google is more cuddly than apple？

maybe Google like apple better than Google may however， those optics feel theyre on the hunt in there winning and so like if you add a theres something weired about this？

i like its bad optics to go take a cut of thirty percent from a whole bunch of creators who dont make a lot of uh most of them are making a ton of money right like thats bad optics i just such an unforced error and feels like them just stepping in rakes constantly theys just site showbob if you know what the strategy here is please let us know because im dying to know if you even what？

i can cock the strategy were not being successfully at it but theres a thing happening like broadly in in the world of check right now where the Rachel here winning the platforms are being proud open and distrition is getting a little crazier and its like kind interesting for us right like it means more interesting things are happening like altstore is just a thing thats happening eu emulators are happening all over the iPhone right now because of e regulation dimulators are cool like theyre downstream of some boring lawyer stuff but now you can run dos in your life right well！

its worth pointing out how biga shift all of that is from even lets say twelvemonths ago like i， i think the the bet this time last year would not have been on huge wins for the us government in particular right it was it was perceived that the eu had wildly overstepped its bounds and that was arguing it very weird but like leenacon was having a really bad time picking fight to attack companies and it wasngoing well and it didngo well and over and over this sense was like uh what what is happening here the tech companies are Gonna keep winning apple was kind of winning against Epic Google lost put in kind of a like not necessarily quite as terrifying way it just it the momentum felt very different not that long ago and i think it it has maybe not cut up to everybody how quickly and aggressively， it seems like the winds on all of that stuff have changed yeah， yeah and import because of what yousaying the things like the emulators right like with every little crack like product changes are happening and there is the the one just this week with apple opening up tap to pay stuff like thats Ben in the antitrusttrials that is one of the things that apple has kept really aggressive control over like we talk a lot about digital wallets on the show when this came out because like and thats the kind of stuff that is making big change is just because of the threat of regular short action right like all this stuff is gonna take a decade to play out， but it doesnt matter because as soon as it starts playing out it all changes yeah！

yeah， and i i just think were on the cusp of and weve talked about this submillion times the show it just feels like everything is about change， like the inner is about change or social life change， search about change， and then this stuff is going to break these companies open i am hopeful， we see around of interesting new innovative companies in products ideas must a little worried that like mostly weve gonna get lawsuits and im a try to talk about many led TVs every week in and set after read pdfs even on the sound show we have now sandwiched the television discussion inside a banner trust conversation so i dont know why this keys happening to me but by solemn promised all of you ah is it anytime we talk with an interest i will bring up our teletions you actually believe that yeah all right we got to take a break where to come back point around and ill be in a third chair。

its officially mid August， which in my mind is peak summer but for college students across the country its time to start thinking about returning to campus and for college professors its hightime to figure out where you stand on artificial intelligence in the classroom？

students using ai to write their papers um lack of clarity in some classes both mind and others about what the official university policy is what a department policy is what an individual classroom policy is around the use of chat gbt to do student academic work sounds kind of stressful to be honest does not feel very summary um and so going into this summer teaching my own class i decided to write my own ai policy prohibiting ai and my classroom。

how professors are readingthemselves for the robots this semester on today explains this week？

whatis up people of the internet imark as brownly， aka mkphd and each one is a quickly tell you about my podcast waveform， so after making tech reviews on YouTube for over a decade， ive had the chance to check out some real groundbreaking tech and some real dudproducts and so on wayform along with my cohost and elli and David ml， we capture immediate reactions to new technology thats coming out every week from smartphones to evs and even ai finding its way into everything we got you covered and you also get a bit of a sneek peak into whats like working at a YouTube channel closing in on twentymillion subscribers， so she want to stay up to date with the latest tech and Internet news and culture and all sorts of stuff like that you can find us on Spotify， apple Podcast。

or anywhere you listen see over there the walle Disney company is a sprawling business its got movie studios， theme parkscable networks， a streamingservice， its a lot so can be hard to find just the right person to lead it all when you have a leader with the singulardy。

creative mind and leadership the walldisney had like goes away and disappears maybe you can expect what will happen the problem is Disney ceos have troubletting go after 15 years。

babigger finely handed off the rains in 2020 his retirement did not last long he now has a big black mark on his legacy because after pushing back his return but over and over again when he finally did choose a successor， it didnt go well for anybody involved and of course。

now！

theres a sort of a bake off going on everybody watching who could it be i dont think theres anyone were it like the obvious no brainer thats not the case amjoadalyon vulturin the vox media podcast network present landed the giants the disneed of lemon followwherever you listened to her new episodes everywedstay！

i reback i mean what i think of is the home boy chairs its beautiful look when you got the nba players in here during the podcast this is where the home boy set yeah！

you look like you should be like you you look like a a professor during the pandemic who like went a little hard on redecoring the home office thats right that thats also this look you know side kick home boys professor with an exaggerhand uh huh the the slats are like its very tricky its a good reason good we bought very similar slats for the studio at my house！

string it anyway， this is a well im in a loose hangout you might call this the hypedesk the verchest one could yeah one could one that one could say we are now in the market for someone a sitting high hype test and verchest once again cause we have a height zone over here in the student the ads yet unsponsored unlaunched hypedesk look just once we get this lighting around sponsored were moving on but now that im in the hype test i think David that makes you you gotta run the lighting around and im just gonna say whether not things are hype okay good well now that now that im in charge um i fix sixth things for living right 哈哈哈 classic classic white thing around no at parents lets lets lets start with you you have a fun gagity once you go oh yeah i got a fun gagity one so so real me is a Chinese phone maker and they make phones i i dont wanna i dont want to big a big assessment on the quality of those phones they are a phones we can say they are phones um and they are really into like making the charging better and faster and they introduced 320 what fast charging just thats great its its theydo it？

they said they could do a battery in four minutes and thirty seconds like a pixel nine battery what isnt the plug i havenwalks seven and a half whats and unpressure like thirty is like very fast yeah！

so this is this is insane unclearfile will burst into flame as as soon as you plug it n unclear file set your phone you need like a like a thunderbolt for style cable like a big thick i wouldnt feel comfortable youre not sending us to like a like a flimsy like lightning case yeah yeah this is not what you want to use like that random cable you found at the bottom of your desk dont dont use that look at your point you like a ccs charger and your face yeah， yeah is so its usbc right now what can usbc do except tell you what its doing but that they havent really like theres no phones thats really fully supported out in the wild its just technology they just said we did it this was kind of there they were doing their road show and showing off there theyre new technology and theys like yeah were gonna do this soon so at some point were gonna have phones charging in four minutes and thatll rule unless they catch on fire can i just say my find my favorite part of the story is the mean the story is great we should try funds faster the pressimage they supplied is incredible its just like a happy guy he so have a screen this is three hundred plus supersonic charge and he just please this punch look what those you need this thats all you need look thats how i feel when i read three hundred and twenty Watts yeah ilike OK？

yeah same feeling like i wish i was giving this presentation right now like i i truly what can we get the words to hundred twenty 瓦 supersonic charging this tv please they also smile at it they call the charger the pocket cannon which is unbelievable yeah just great trimes everything about its wonderful and but well have to see if it actually does it not just in a demo that i will say at the tap i i have for years thought that the thing that all these companies say that its like you know the battery is trash but it charges pretty fast you can get from zero to fifty percent in 35 minutes ill always kind of thought that was nothing like it who cares but the idea of fully charging my phone in four and a half minutes its like OK， i can plug it my phone i can brush my teeth and my phone is going to be it like 70 percent is you can also heat a small village yeah！

you can fry one egg uh！

its gonna be great you can i do like the idea of of both turning my oftenon and charging my phone at the same time no i think it youblow a circuit breakthat yeah， its like a， its like a hot plate and a phone charger always oh！

yeah yeah smell on my table this is great the the st the st lights for miles around when David plugs in this found， im gonna say i look im just looking this photo this guy smiling at the words three hundred what superson charge and i think more of the tech industry should be like this yeah yeah thats why i have for you i will take a pocket can in。

yeah here we are all right i have two the first one i actually should have brought this up up at the top where we were talking about all the ai image processing stuff uh but halide a very good camera app for iPhones and ipads uh launch the thing this week called process zero that is basically just a setting inside of their app that instead of running every photo you take through either apples i think they offer apples standard image processing， the pro raw processing， and then a thing they call reduced， which is just kind of a late version of apples processing runs it through no processing so you get you get what is supposed to be as closeto like a film camera experience as possible you just get the late it collects the end a supercool feature got a lot of people very excited this idea that like we we can actually choose to go another way its gonna make some your photos meaningfully worse uh its gonna change them in certain ways but i think that idea of like not only do i get to pick like where i am in the photo， which is weird but like i have actual real control over what is happening to my photo every time i capture it is very cool uh also just the idea that i camera on your phone can have that kind of access is very cool and not a thing i really understand until i started writing about this thing that like its a again its just collecting sensor data and if you give apps like how like access to that sensor data theres all kinds of interesting stuff theyve gonna be able to do with it and i just think thats very cool and of sort of rich ven that at least to my knowledge nobody is really export and i think thats really cool if you dont know a lot about photography。

dont use that feature all you know your photos are gonna look like disagree i did it doesnt you learn a lot about photography that that is feature i im assuming of like the the seven year old who listens to the verge cast and is like you know what i want it this sounds cool i wanna i want to put this on my no that person what are you doing with your time its there it can take oh i say got it understood uh suggestion dont kermen ads i found out with your mom before i saw iteach about about， but disual target you say that now dont be a great for our verge cast so i would think people listen that we talk about a Patrick yeah just me in your mute they get uh but whatre really interesting here is pocket pointshoed digital cameras are making a tiny blip of a callback at particularly with younger folks because they see how bad the processing on the phones is gotten and they dont wanna be always connected like mynies is an nefuse or all caring around power shot elfs and im like i made a lot of mistakes for those cameras dont do what i did uh but its fasting to see that will come back is it meaningful is it the threat to smart from no none of that but it is a push back on how process the photo 是 getting yeah and i think you know an app putting some of those photos into the phone might push the default cameras back toward sanity and um kind of hoping apple takes the hit right that theres you theyve overdone it Samsung is overdone it for years Google has been inching towards over doing it i think its apple has taken kind of the most aggressive step from i no the twelve or the thirteenth now were just like oh this this photo just bananas yeah！

i like the photos less on my iPhone 15 then i have in a lot yeah from the iPhone like they i think in a certain way they are like technically better photos i i like them less like my photos dont look like i feel like they should anymore on the uh most smart phones but the iPhone i think held out a long time but that is kind of gone away what is it that that i guess x i i maybe dont see it as much what is it that that that you guys are seen when you do that is it like is it the color is it the the dynamic range all of it its all of it the the things for me im curious David since you are the same opinion if you think something different。

um for me its the the iPhone is not just completely allergigue to shadows hmm just Texas way uh it loves the sky like nothing loves the sky like the iPhone camera loves the sky so just like more sky but not the sky as it is like what if the sky was the best， it has ever been in history all the time everytime you take a oh my god sky oh turn up that sky not yeah uh like oh no its great out today i mean iPhones like the fuck it is lets go and then those things combined if your outside in a bright scene， it can actually make your photos gray yeah right， so um i was thinking what dynamics look it if your music person you know， dynamics are quite loud like theres dynamics in photographs two and serve everything is bright that perceived brightness of the whole image drops and so the iPhone by getting rid of shadows and pumping up the sky and an overlike bringing everything up actually makes the photo look Tim and Ive seen influencers like complain about their iPhone cameras and theyre like why does this camera so great like i think Alex url has made a video about why her camera appears to be great right and like thats bad like you dont want to be there right when you are the the the hardware of the entire creator economy having the creators mean why is my found right and its not because theyre less bright its because if you destroy all the shadows and you make everything bright actually。

everything looks Tim and thats just kind of a weird spot apples gone to i dont David as i were years at some else no thats thats basically right and the other thing i keep noticing and in the the highlight story i wrote theres really interesting uh comparison shot where what apple does by getting rid of shadows whatever it can and hyping up the brightness everywhere you can is it just it just flattens it all to so theres a theres a version of the shot that is like its a its the front of a flowershop uh and so you see all the sort of the flowers in the pots in the front and the photo was like crisper and brighter than the one that you got with the processes zero thing that how it is doing but its also much less like dynamic the photo itself theres no， theres no sense of sort of upsindowns you get the sense the whole curve is just like bright and it makes the whole thing look really flat kind like youtalking at me like， and it just it makes all the photos less interesting in a way like there， brighter and cooler and less interesting to me in in so many ways yeah and theres other situations in theres like weird sharpening when you get in a low light。

iPhones just start freaking out oh yeah and like not in a bad way theyre not like making bad technically bad photo something is what youget anti tabid theyre just trying so hard to make a great photo that you lose the character of it and theres tons in tons and tons and processing like right and i think we are seeing a lot of coming back with the the point shoots and the process zero sufflike this whole idea is like i people should be allowed to take bad photos you know i mean and its like theres something to if im standing in a dark room and i take a picture。

maybe its actually OK that the picture is dark like， maybe， maybe thats OK and and sometimes thats what i want and increasingly with these devices uh you are not allowed to take a dark photo and i think thats just weird im gonna say a sentence the a small number of people will understand the significance of Charlie X1X invited the cover snake to a birthday party！

that thats a real thing and if you were in your twentyisin early two thousand are like oh its back its just fully back were just doing it again that whole static is back and like were just gonna do flash produce a trunk people and like lets do it the iPhone can do that shit yeah no！

he wants that no a bunch of squinting people with a flash on thats thats what were looking oh， theyre not squingting those eyes are dilated my friend fair enough to check um alright my other one and then i like we should get to you and then we should get out of here is a flipboard， which is weve been sort of chronicling flip words like relentless quest to figure out the fetiverse， which i continue to find very interesting uh turned on a thing that i think is actually very instructive and understanding how all of this is supposed to work， which is just that now you can follow federverse accounts so like people from masted on or pixel feed or even on threads uh from inside of flipboard readin its like if you if you want to understand the way， the federverse is supposed to work its that where you make posts and where you read posts can be different and that anybody can decide how those postolooking how theyre supposed to work in in word or they show up and so like the idea that you can do masted on inside of flipboard is both like mind bending and exactly the point and so if you like wanted understanding how the federverse works go to flip board and like mess around at the bunch of method on stuff theyput together some lists i think one that includes unilie， because youre just a tremendously huge day on the federverse uh but like that i think this is the closest thing ive seen to like telling the whole story of like hereis hereis what you get when all you have is just this massive content that you can either build something that adds to or build something that reads from whoever you want so i think that was very cool yeah！

its awesome footboard is way ahead of this curve right there they like rearchitected their app or the way they are thinking about their app around activity pub in these open producles and you kind of have you know in the broader sense like the future of a browser yeah， but its by direction like you take content and you get to read it and you can like reply to it and it goes right back to the person who made it and its pretty powerful it no the nothing works with it yeah repc like what which is a problem but you can just see i theres like glimors here of a new kind of web im the one who keeps babbling on about i were gonna federate our site you can see how our site would play with something like that right very quickly but then you start to build it more trying to build it and its like oh theres a million problems to solve here yeah like big Harry technical problems that no one has ever really try to solve before um， which is why with you know threads federating and they are doing it in like drip by drip like theys solving one little problem in a time they they let you know that someone in the federverse have liked one of your post sure that was just a problem to solve they now now you see those post we cant reply to them now they let you like those post we can reply them obviously reply them mysqlynext and all of that is just like where does the data go if you want a delete something how do you deleted across all of these servers that have now enjosted it maybe you cant yeah weird right if uh someone applies to me on another servers， another kind of moderation policy input something bad in my applies on my site or master like how do i moderate that big questions like huge earth shathering questions like that obviously have made the process slow for everyone but you like oh these are new problems like im in the market for new problems over like weve never thought about these problems you were the fun like this is great so im very excited just like see everyone making so progress here i just have a question which is the bigger platform shift giban i live or footboard you know i you you know i believe its the federverse i yeah i i my heart of part i believe its the federverse i i just really wanted to hear us all say flip Ford is the platform shift this week i just look i like flipboard i think they too really interesting i dont flip board is a platform should i think this part of the platform shift about how information moves around the internet um that you know if you are gonna break something like Google through regulatory action or just Google killing stuff yeah， goo Google end of life Google search seems like a likely outcut its more likely than not you know giving Google history um if all that stuff is breaking down in all you know， the photobase networks are flutter with synthetic image is another contrast you need to make something else yep and it teams like everyone has bat on open in our opera networks this time and i do think that is fundamentally a bigger shift that more people will feel than Gemini maybe on long term obviously again i will like do all the things and none of us off to working there are not so spring as peanic colors but right now i think its the social web yeah agree alright Neil i whats yours for we get out here what is mine？

this is what happens when you in a side picture you should not prepared you should see it hype yo good point， uh OK so mine is actually related to ai so Eric trement used to be the sea of Google um he gave a talk recently he got ding for a lot of stuff he gave in this talk uh any asked for the talk to be taken off of YouTube not a great cycle right you give a tockedstandford youlike oh no youquoting my talk please remove it from you two it was the first moment in it where he hes like this is off the record and the person hes talking to like points of the camera yeah， what are you doing thats up look thats real um so that the thing he got in trouble for the ast for the talk we take down um was he said Google was behind an ai because the workers prioritized working from home snacks as first， we competitive um this is from the former sea of Google this is not goal like just what are you talk also， just a bad take yeah yeah， theres a million reasons and i dont think its the people who work at Google who made the strategic errors right yeah um but whatever and also， Google is you know this is coming on the heels of like the pixel event were Google is like doing huge muscular ai stuff yeah whatever， so he can troublefor that Alex he through a quick host about it hes like hes thinking happened the video right taking down and then Alex got a transcript of the thing and he are actually watching the other video and smits it something else so i think is very fastling， very telling， and i think very important to understanding， not just so can value but Google and googles place in the world so he said to this room full like Stanford students a lot of your Gonna be tech people i hope a lot of your tech startups what i would do right now TikTok was band i propose each and aquote i propose each and everyone of you say to lm the following make me a copy of TikTok steel， all the user steal， all the music put my preferences in it produce this program the next thirty seconds release it and one hour if it hasngone do something different along the same ones what what element element is so first of all yeah i dont work on a magic lm like at best youre gonna be like i do you wanna bang the side what sport he hes using the the rabbit we all expected to see yeah series so for but i get you understand what hes saying hes like if TikTok is band just clone it just take it yeah， take the music， take the user， take the content just make a clone of TikTok and stand it up in people starusing it if they dont do again and his point was the quote the example， i gave the TikTok competitor is what thats what you do if you are still can value entrepreneur， which hopefully all of you will be if it took off， you would hire a whole bunch of lawyers to go clean up the mess but if nobody uses a product， it doesnt matter that install of a content？

wait whats whats the next line and do not quote me yeah yeah what see his oops so anyway。

my point of this is Eric smart ran Google in the earlyperiod right he was famously the adult they hired to run Google， this is what Google did a in not in a small way in a big open way， they just built a company on copier in frenchment they hired a bunch a lawyer sync clean up the mess and they were a friendly company with two lovable goofballs as theyre founders， they were providing an enormously valuable service at the time Google search was enormously valuable googlebooksearch copyright loss you enormously valuable YouTube enormously valuable built on copier infratement particularly in sviacom， so valuable that viicom lost copier infringace because viicoms own people kept upload in the content Rick riculous but this is this is how Google works in the beginning that is the attitude were going to make the thing its going to be so useful people are going to love it and then， when a copier infrasion cases or whatever other lawsuits come， we will have enough money to pay lawyers to make a good way Google didit that actually worked it was a successful strategy at the time it was successful for other company is like Uber or whatever it is right we are at a point now where the ai companies kind of want to run the same playbook Google wants to run the same playbook with ai and training and theyre not lovable goofballs anymore yeah， so when Eric Smith is that Sanford complaining that you know the kids arenworking hard not anymore and then on top of it being like just still the stuff in figure out later， the attitude that he said that the like the worlds attitude in response to that is nowhere near as friendly as it was when they were building Google and i i think its actually kind of fasting to see that shift but i dont know like Alexa so hanian like route the book that was like as for permission not forgiveness right， and that was like the whole industries， attitude and that work but i think i think thats a great message for a lot of things still to this day but youre in this place where if you want a build Google again or something like Google anyway， im just gonna tell robot to copy TikTok and then ill figure out if it works。

i dont think i i actually do not think that is gonna succeed in the cultures of this to that no and i think that is one of the most misplaced things in some corners of siliche value now and its not true everyarebut it is true a surprising number replaces this sense that the focus in the tech industry， still are the light counter culture revolutionaries trying to build a better future uh and its just like a you know a bunch a hippies in San Francisco。

who are just like trying to make cool stuff together like that is not how those people are perceived and enough of them see themselves that way that thats why theyre like oh were were just the contrarians and its why you see this like crazy push away from vocus and all this stuff and like i dont wanna get into the political side of it but it comes from the same impulse that it is like we are the renegades and like no youre not do like you are the most establishment of the establishment and yeah you you dont get the Lee way that you want and maybe never should have a the thing is also they were never there renegades like like silicon value was built on like military funds and stuff right like the they they were never that it was a very conscious pr move and they decided at some point we are too big to need to do that pr move but actually you cant keep running your playbook can do that because then you just look like our herst or something you just look like all of the kind of like people who are always the villains in period films thats not a great look no and wesing this who apple you like apple doing the thirty percent years just seeing over and over again is like no you guys forgot like you forgot the pr part of this that that actually is really important you do have to market this， you market yourself and if you stop doing that we are going to all eventually be like hey！

youb being kind assels you i can actually draw straight line from your singoux to request a in an interview to randostern this week at the loss return all， she said hey， yeah to pull this add that you render Olympics of someone asking Gemini to write a letter or athlete for a starter and i got post everyons like what just have your kid do it like sit down with your kid and do this yeah dons real to it and he was like the market isnt ready for this this is like when we want from handwriting to email its like no its not did just isa and i at that little latitude like youjust not ready for the thing it worked at a different time it really did yeah it work for the web it worked for computer mice ah， it did not work i would say for the digital kind of appwatch but oh， i works the iPod it all the stuff it works for it this is the moment where were just going to take the stuff in gonna think us later a little little warning sign i would just say thats my lightning right item yep， watch， watch that one because it its the source or more conflict than you think exactly thats it thats the show weve gone way over web talk about an interrust too many times too many more chairs to sit in how are the chairs uh theres theres several more chairs occasion if youve had ideas for sponsoring the Hive type？

so please let me know my god are gonna get the sharesponsored i think we actually have ads right now dont even know how it works thats on my side of asshole alright thats the show thank you for listening uh we get like like hydrogen car special episode on two saydavid yeah so uh we we have deeply fun stuff coming up the next few weeks of the verge cast but uh the short version of a long story that Ive very excited for everybody here is uh willpowere took a ride in a hydrogen car that no one was sure was going to go anywhere or keep everyone alive during the whole process and he learned a lot about kind of the history in future of cars and everything is alive was not some story any made it out so is happy ending！

alright， well， thats keep having Tuesday the skate from hydrogen cars pretty much today on the calibrators thats it， thats the verchest！

docker row and thats it for the verge cast this week hi， wedlove to hear from you giveasacall at 8660 berge one the Verge casses the production of the verge and box media podcast network our show is produced by handler， Marino and lean James thats it well see in next week。