Kathleen Madigan, Charlie McCrackin, James Mannion
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Sometimes you have to let the cows out to eat the hay. Welcome to Comedy Bang Bang.

Ah, thank you to Rabbit Fighter for that catchphrase submission. Sometimes you have to let the cows out to eat the hay. I mean, it's as true as it is pithy and catchy. I don't think it's going to stick, but thank you so much to Rabbit Fighter for that submission. The hunt continues. The hunt continues, much like the cows hunting the hay that they're going to eat.

Welcome to Comedy Bang Bang for another edition. We have an incredible show. I know I say that every week, but I honestly, 75% of the time I'm lying.

This is in the 25 where I am. I just think this is solid. We have a policeman or a law enforcement officer. I don't know whether calling a detective a policeman is an insult. Maybe I've busted him down to just a beat cop or suddenly in my introduction. But he is a detective. We'll be talking to him about all things law enforcement coming up a little later.

We also have a professor, a psychology professor. So this is a very...

informative show, I think, if you're interested in those two jobs, at least. We also have our first guest is a comedian. So really running the gamut of employees here. Although I guess the comedian, she works for herself. She's self-employed, I guess. Yeah, this would be a really weird human resource meeting. These are the three actual jobs. These are the three.

We have to welcome her to the prestigious one-timers club here on Comedy Bang Bang. This is an incredible achievement for someone to be on one time. And we've determined, by the way, that if you're ever on more than once, that means your career is on the down slide. Okay, I will not come back. This is it. Because the greats have been on one time. Ben Stiller, Donald Glover. They've never returned because they're too busy. Paul Rudd, way too busy to come back. Maybe it's the parking.

Could be. Was the parking bad for you? No, it's just I think I took the spot ahead of a couple other people. I got the good spot. Well, we'll work all of that out. We do not validate, by the way. I'm so sorry to tell you. That's all right. But she is, look, a journeyman stand-up has been working for now. God, I want to say, you first started, I was reading, in 1988.

Is that true? Well, true, but I didn't go on the road until 89. Right. So a year of, you know... A year of working out what you were going to do. Yeah, getting 15 minutes together. So 1989 to now cut to 35 years later. Yep.

incredible, incredible career. She's done all of the television shows. She did Carson, right? You did Carson. Not with him. Not with him. Who hosted? Leno. Leno hosted. Yeah, Carson was leaving, and for like the last two years, he just had his friends on. Really? So maybe, like I remember Jim McCauley, the guy that booked Carson, and he would be around the improv and stuff, but it was too late for us. Like he was already...

You know, I mean, it was Bette Midler, all of Johnny Carson's friends who want to sing a song and make him cry. And we weren't going to do it. Did you miss the singing a song to him? No, no, no, no. I don't. What song would you have sung to him? I do Irish goodbyes. I wouldn't even say goodbye to you. More or less make a thing out of it. We're crying. That would be great if you did Carson and just like midway through the show, you were gone. Just left. Yeah. Just act like everybody else is busy. Where'd Kathleen go? Yeah, right. Well, that's...

That's happened at many a party, but no, I didn't. So Leno was the guy. Leno, Letterman, but you've done them all. Yes, all of them. So many stand-up specials, and her current tour is called the Potluck Party Tour. Please welcome to the prestigious one-timers club, Kathleen Madigan. Thank you. Hello, welcome to the show. Yes, I've listened to some episodes. I think I know what's happening. Okay, good. If you ever are unsure... I listen to Fortunes.

Oh, Fortune. She's a friend. Yes, yes, yes. Great. She's always fun to listen to. Yes, she's great. She's wonderful. She's still on that Arnold Schwarzenegger show? I don't know. When you guys were talking about it, honestly, I didn't know what it was. I mean, I love her, but I didn't want to say it. But I don't watch stuff like that. What do you watch? What does a Kathleen Madigan watch? Well, if you're not killing somebody on the ID channel, chances are I'm not familiar with you. If you're not on Dateline and you're not part of some murder thing, good or bad, whatever side you're on, like, I...

or like i just watched oh my god it was on uh apple oh joe what was that called about uh coco chanel but it's got nazis and world war ii and nazis well she was a nazi sympathizer and who knew and christian dior uh it's called the new look the new look on apple tv it's there's like eight episodes it's all factual it is just the greatest because it's

I like historical stuff. And then you tie in fashion, too. Whoa, whoa, triple. Yay, yay, yay. It was really great. And they're all like actors you've never heard of because they're actually French or they're Europeans. So you don't have to think about they're just ghosts.

good at it like there's nothing you have to think about like like keanu reeves doesn't appear as a nazi where you're like oh my god this is so not believable what's he doing oh he's playing someone else right right right right so uh i don't know like do you like fictional crime stuff or non-fictional crime uh non-fiction just non-fiction not i like everything non-fiction historically accurate if possible i was gonna say uh i just completed ripley

Which is fictional crime. Oh, no. I'm not in. You're out. No. Even with musicals. I'll buy into the sound of music. I know what happened. But the rest of it. The rest of it. Oklahoma technically is a place. Nope. Nope. Nope. Not buying in. The South Pacific is a location. It is. World War II happened. Yeah. West Side Story. No gangs broke out in the song. I can't suspend reality like that. But I think there's a lack of meaning is that when we're off, we are not watching comedy.

Yeah. We're overloaded. I hate it. There's got to be something better out there, right? Well, just different. Like, comedy, comedy, comedy. You know what I mean? Like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Well, yeah. I mean, unless it's like, I don't know, create...

I don't know. A lot of it just doesn't hit that. I'll watch stand up specials. Sure. Like friends or new people. Yeah. Yeah. Those are a little more, I don't know, realistic, I guess. But when people are like sitting around there, you know, like take your Abbott elementaries or whatever, it's like, come on. I've never had a funny teacher.

Get the fuck out of here. If I don't buy the premise, I can't go with the show. I've just had teachers who like, you know, discipline me and spank me. That's why the Catholic schools are hard to get into. That's right. You grew up in the Catholic school system. And I think people nowadays want to know that you can hit my kid. Yeah.

And that's really only going to happen at a Catholic school. We still have permission to hit you. That's the one place you can go if you want your kid hit. You want your kid hit, sign up. It's $15,000. $15,000? Well, it depends on what school. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, I can hit my kid for $13,500. For free. Oh, okay.

No, I don't know. It's just the discipline, I guess. But yeah, you're I'm going to say you're on this current tour, but really you've been on tour for 35 years at this point. You work. You're one of the hardest working standups in the business. You work 250 nights a year still.

Yeah, but I don't do side projects. Like, my goal was to do this and I'm doing it. And then people are like, oh, media people are, well, what's your next goal? I'm like, why do I have to have one? That's Oprah putting that shit in your head. I don't,

I don't need a vision board. I don't need, you know, well, I don't ever want to be in a movie. You don't ever want to be in a single movie? I don't care. If a friend asks, I will do it. I've done like two, but I'm just the bartender. Would you consider me to be your friend because I want you to star in my next movie? I'll be in your movie if you want. But I don't like acting. I don't have the patience. I don't want to be in a sitcom. I just wanted to tell jokes and make money and drink with the staff and...

That's going very well. I don't understand why I'm supposed to make myself do more when this was the initial goal. So you don't have side... You're not working on a script while you're out there doing... No, no, no. So technically you're working 250 nights a year, but you're doing...

an hour and a half 20 hour 20 yeah and i get there early for soundcheck and i watch the opener and it's a fun night and then i just want to be done now we're done like i went one lewis black is one of my best friends the comedian was like he was on an episode of the big bang theory he played some crazy nutty professor and we went over there good he was like will you go with me i said lewis i don't have the patient he go play baby i go fine so i bring a bottle of wine because i know i'm going to be bored and his his assistant friend then shannon she'd be bored

We were there from 4 till 11. 4 a.m. No, 4 p.m. Right. And then the show came on. This keeps crazy hours. And he was on like for three minutes. And I go, was that worth it to you, Lou? Seven hours? Ah.

I don't know. I don't know. Was he getting paid scale? He just likes to act. Was he a guest star payment? It wouldn't be what he'd make doing a stand-up show. I don't know. I don't know. I don't have the patience. So have you, I haven't taken a look at your IMDB, which is short, by the way, for the internet movie database. That's because I don't update it. But have you ever been in any movie or any TV show other than doing stand-up on TV?

I was in a movie that Steve Byrne, a comedian, made on The Bartender. Right. In that comedy movie. I don't even feel bad. I don't even remember what it was. I think he was on the show talking about it. I'm sure he was. And I watched it. I don't remember what it's called. Yeah, like the popular Asian kid who's in everything. William... Shakespeare? Exactly. Shakespeare.

Totes Asian. I don't know. He's in it. Okay. Who cares? But you were in that, but it was a favor. It was, yeah. Are you playing yourself? Yeah. Well, yeah. I'm the bartender lady who runs over Mike Knight, and he said it would be at an Irish bar. What he didn't say is that the bar would be closed and there would be no air conditioning. Or I would have said, no, Steve.

No. You tell me an Irish bar I'm picturing, I have a Guinness while all this goes on and you all work out all your bullshit and I'll be right here with my four lines. I got it. And it didn't go like that at all. This is good advice for people who want to be actors out there. Always check the air conditioning. Noise. Anything that can make noise. All has to be turned off.

Oh, brutal. In Anaheim in a strip mall. I'm like, we're not even, we're in a fake Irish bar. It's not even, you know, it's one of those kilt of something world. Like, it's Scottish. It's not even, I was so. So what's the ideal acting role for you? Because I'm trying to get you in something here because. I can play a bartender who just says something every now and then, but I need the air conditioning to be on. You need the air conditioning to be on. Or a door open or something where there's air. So I'm casting a TV show.

where the hours are 1 p.m. to 2 p.m. is when we take. That's good. The air conditioning is blasting, so you can't really hear any of the dialogue. So far, yes. All the doors are open, so the lights are shot. Great. So far, yes. This is all good. Terrible movie, but I'm going to have a lot of fun. I got to get you in this. I need the taps in the bar to work. You're too good. I need you in.

And you need to get drunk. It needs to be real beer the entire time. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, I'm not going to go into, you know, yinglings or something harsh, but, you know, something that's a session beer, Michelob Ultra, something simple. Sure, sure. Yeah, so my career is very limited. It's very much in the stand-up. But what I love about this is you are committed to the art form of stand-up because so many people...

get into stand-up now, and they're angling for the next thing, or they're angling for a show, or what have you. Or just to be a celebrity. Sure. That's the most annoying one. Yeah. And I can spot them like that. I'm like, oh, this one doesn't care about stand-up. They've figured it out, though, that you can use stand-up. It's the quickest way to, if you can get good at it, kinda, you know, you can end up on the Netflix Young Comedians deal, and they're blah, blah, blah. But it's the ones that want to be a celebrity...

Those are the ones that irritate me the most. The ones that want to be actors and stuff, it could all be part of it. It's just not my thing, but it could be your thing. But the ones who want to be a celebrity. Who are we talking about here? I'm not going to mention names. Well, it's the ones that are celebrities. You can go Google it yourself. I see a lot of Instagram celebrities who

Who then you look at their page and you go, oh, you also do stand up. Right, right, right. Not to slam the platform Instagram, which is, of course, owned by Meta. Yeah, it's owned by little fucker Berg himself. I don't know why the government's so mad at TikTok. You're mad at the Chinese. But while meanwhile, Zuckerberg's an actual alien and nobody's mad about that. Like, is he an alien? I think so. 100%.

I do not believe he's from this planet. Do you believe in aliens, by the way? Are you like a UFO person? Or what are they called now? UTIs? Well, I may have joined MUFON in my 20s, but I have moved on. I haven't kept my card updated. What is it? I don't even know what that is. Mutual UFO. Google it. It's a big organization. It's people who believe in aliens. And I was in college. I'm like, yeah, I'm in. It's free. Have you seen any evidence of them at all? I have not. My little brother and my dad did. Really? What'd they see? They were driving through...

back roads of Missouri having a conversation. Nobody had been drinking or anything like that. They had gone on a fishing trip and...

And nobody had been drinking on this fishing trip? Already your story is falling apart. Nobody was hungover. Oh, okay. That counts. I'll give you that. Or my dad might have grabbed a highball to go sometimes in the car. None of that was happening. And they lost three hours of time and ended up in some town. My dad knew every road in Missouri, every back road, every highway. He knew everything. And they didn't know where they were.

And there was a weird girl at a gas station, like a back ass woods gas station. And he said, how do you get to highway 70? And she said, I've never heard of that. It's the main highway that goes through from Kansas city to St. Louis. Like you can't,

Not. No. Right. So this girl is an alien? No. I think they just ended up in a place that wasn't even real. Oh, so like an alternate dimension where this highway had never been born. But they do have the same gas stations in this alternate dimension. And he paid by credit card and it ended up on his credit card bill. There's a lot of holes, if you want to get logical, there's a lot of holes in this story. But then, shockingly, my brother... So after this incident, they both swear by it. And it's not like...

I was more of a... Couldn't this woman just have been like a dumb shit who had never... She could have been completely dumb shit. I've gotten that same answer in Kansas City where Highway 70 goes through Kansas City and their farm people are like, I don't go on the big roads, but they are aware of it. They just don't like it. And it's too crazy. But the three hours in missing time. That's weird. And then shockingly, my brother, who I would call a B minus lazy student,

All of a sudden it was straight A's. It was Latin scholar of Missouri. He like spoke Latin. So whatever they shoved up his ass made him smarter? Yeah. I said, well, tell me where you got. You think your time ended because I want to go back to that spot.

And then maybe I could. Yeah. So that happened to them. But I don't know. I wouldn't. Interesting. But nothing for you. No. And I. And you've been traveling this country and I guess other countries. But of course, we're in the USA right now. Love it or leave it. And but you've been traveling for decades now and you've never run into anything. No. And just not that long ago. Well, January, I guess, driving from Wichita to Tulsa in the middle of the night.

You know, you think you hate traffic until there's no traffic, no other cars, and then you're like,

It's going on. Like, if there was a place to see an alien ship, that was a primo landing spot for them. Lots of parking. I didn't see anything. You'd think that one alien would be like, because they always go to abandoned places, so no one sees them. You'd think one alien would have made a mistake and landed in the middle of L.A. or something. Or Times Square. Yeah, you know what I mean? Just on some roofs. Yeah, because we get lost all the time. Well, if they're good enough to get here, they probably don't get lost.

But also, why would you come here? Why would anyone come here? That's the thing. Unless we're their next meal. I mean. Hunting. Hunting? I mean, you think that your dad and your brother maybe were a prey for this alien? Maybe. And maybe they're like, yeah, we're not into beef tacos. You know, I mean, whatever. Whatever. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how you have three hours of missing time. That's the thing. I mean. That's the weird part.

The gas station girl, I'm with you. Could just be a backwoods idiot. Do you think maybe they pulled over and just fell asleep for a while or were... Oh, no, my dad would never do that. Okay. No, Mr. Type A. He would go all day. No, he doesn't nap. No. Well, I'm sold. There's aliens. I'm just saying. And they exist. I do think there's something off about Zuckerberg and Elon Musk. They're not...

I don't feel that they're normal people. The emotions aren't there. Even in the congressional hearings when shit gets really heated, he just cocks his head. It's almost like there's no emotion of a normal what you would call a normal emotional response to the to the situation that is occurring. It's like spending time just coding all day.

Yeah, like their brains are computers. And then that guy in 1953 wrote a book that there's going to be a man named Elon who promises to take us all to Mars, and he's going to take us to Mars, and he's going to crown himself king of Mars. What did Elon say? He's taking us all to Mars. Which book is this? Google, a book in 1953. Google book? No, I don't remember the name.

It's a big thing. I'm going to need you to be more specific. Well, you have to Google it to get the name. I don't remember the name of the book, but 1953, man writes book about Elon Musk predicting Elon Musk. Google 19... Okay. Because in the 50s was Elon a name? 1953, Elon Musk book, man... Mars. Just say Mars. Just say Mars. What about man? Do I not need that one? You can put man. Can I put man in there? Because I'm worried that it's just...

Okay. Oh, okay. In the 1950s, German-turned-American scientist Wernher von Braun, yes, the Nazis' leading rocket man. Yeah. Like that was something that I knew. Which is also the von Braun Center in Huntsville, Alabama, because they all went to Huntsville because of NASA. Yeah.

He wrote a science fiction novel called The Mars Project. It takes place in then distant 1980 and features human colonists on Mars whose leader uses the title Elon. See?

Just saying. Wow. I mean, this is fishy. I mean, in the 50s, was anybody named Elon? I don't know. Maybe. Is it a South African name? I don't know. I don't know. I never heard it. It's an anagram for Noel, so it might have been a Christmas thing or. Yeah, like a Wordle scramble or something. Yeah, Wordle. By the way, Wordle. I play Wordle every day. When are they going to scramble it? I can't believe they haven't. You know what I mean? We're just solving nonsense, Jibber. Yeah.

Right. And everybody's all in. Yeah, and everyone's like, oh my God. Throw a boomerang in there so my mom's got something different to talk about on Thursdays. Well, the tour right now is Potluck Party. I'm assuming this is based on a joke in your ass. Actually, this one is just based on when they're like, what?

The people, it's the media people. They always ask. They always want a title. They want a title and then they want to know what are you going to do. I'm like, well, I'm going to do an old, new, and so it's a potluck.

It's a bunch, everything. So it is, it's not based on your, it's a title. It's an actual title. Yeah, this time. Because I get tired of trying to explain jokes to press people. Well, here's the thing. When you do an interview like this and you have a stand-up special that's titled something, there really is nothing else to ask about. You know what I mean? So it's like, so I'm always forced with like, what's the title mean? Right. Because other than that, it's just like, it's a bunch of jokes, right?

Right. I mean, they want to elevate what we're doing to a place where it doesn't really exist. Exactly. I mean, I think what I do is actually very important, but...

You can elevate yourself through your own podcast, though. You can just tell people it's way more a thing than it needs to be a thing. Well, you're on tour till the end of the year and then probably all next year and probably all next year after that. And then probably a year after that, you're still on tour. They're just road people. Until I retire, it's like when they say Stevie Nicks has added new dates. I love Stevie Nicks.

Of course she has. Stevie's not quitting. She doesn't ever take time off. What would make you quit? Oh, easy. A shit ton more money than I have. I mean, I have enough now. Like this, my brother's a financial, one of my brothers is a financial advisor. I hate it with financial advisors. And they'll all say this where you go, how much should I have in the bank to retire? And they go, well,

That depends on what kind of lifestyle you want. Oh, stop it. That is a cop-out. That means you don't really know. Yeah. Which person's lifestyle? Right. You know what I do. I don't spend money on clothes or jewelry or art. I golf and fish in a bass boat. Factor that in. What's that cost? How many boats do you own? Two. Two boats. How many golf balls do you own? 85 million. Okay.

Okay, this is where you're spending your money. No, a lot of them are gifts. They're gifts. They each cost a dollar. They're free. They're free. They're free. So I don't spend all that. And then I give them to my nephews. But...

I would like every time I do a scratch off ticket, if there it have to be a lot. It have to be a lot. Or you could star in this show. I want to put you in. I could set you up for life. Like, yeah. Cat Williams wants me to be in a movie. I'll do it if it's Cat Williams. OK. Does Cat Williams is he does he have other parts that he's casting? Not really sure. We were drunk on a plane.

And he told me about this. And he had a full bottle of liquor. I'm like, Kat, how'd you get that? On a plane? Yeah, he goes, baby, you got to get the note of duty free, people. I'm like, oh, sneaky.

sneaky sneaky are you allowed to open just open bottles of liquor on the plane of course not but he already had and then they weren't gonna stop him and uh he was so sweet though he was i was in first class he was in coach and and it was the only time i've got on a on a in a first class flight every single person in there was an older black woman and i thought good let's turn the tables ladies all these white guys fuck them

Just every once in a while, we need to turn the tables. Well, it was all of his mom, her friends, and there were no more seats left because I took the last seat. Oh, no. And he was in coach, yeah. So when anybody says Kat's crazy, he's a sweet man.

You gave up your seat, I'm assuming? Absolutely not. No. I told him, get your ass back to coach. But pour me a drink. With your huge bottle of liquor. Your huge bottle of Hennessy. I'll take a Hennessy before you go. Well, we need to take a break. Are you excited to talk to the person in law enforcement? Very excited. Do you have any family members in law enforcement? No.

Oh, older, like my grandpa, Irish cops in St. Louis. I wondered. I wondered. We also have a professor of psychology. Yeah, I don't have anybody that smart. OK, no, not your brother, because suddenly he's an A student. Well, he became a financial advisor, which is kind of a bullshitter. Well, we need to take a break when we come back. We'll have more with Kathleen Madigan. We'll have a law enforcement officer and a professor of psychology. This is a packed show, everyone.

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51 years or older. Terms and conditions apply. Comedy Bang Bang, we are back. Kathleen Madigan is here. The potluck party tour just continues forever. Do you take holidays off?

Oh, yeah. I take a lot. I take weeks off. You take whole weeks? But I'm not like the Red Hot Chili Peppers where it's like, you know, a year. No, it's like two weeks in a row, maybe in the summer and when things are less crazy. And you do do a few Red Hot Chili Peppers songs when people come to see you. Yeah. It's my dancing moves. Much like Flea, I'm all over the place. Yeah. So I do. Wonderful. Well, go out and see her. People can get the information at

I'm assuming Kathleen Madigan.com. Yes. Please don't go other places. I have all my old relatives. Why are your tickets $850? They're not because you went to some psycho resale say, say they're on the website. Takes you to the link where the tickets are, the prices they should be. Okay. Wonderful. Uh, well we need to get to our next guest. Uh,

Uh, he is in law enforcement, uh, and he's a detective. And honestly, that's all I know about him at this point. But, uh, please welcome to the show for the first time, Detective Jack Cates. Get this convict. We are not partners. We're not brothers. We're not friends. I'm going to put you down and keep you down until Gans is locked up or dead.

I'm sorry, are you talking to me? I am. Oh, I don't believe I am a convict. Well, we've got 48 hours to find Gans. All right? To find who? You and me. Gans. Who's? Gans. Albert Gans. He's escaped from prison. Oh, I haven't heard. And he's got my gun. That seems like a mistake. How'd he get that? He stole it from me in an alley tussle.

I don't know anything about that. I don't know why. This is Kathleen Madigan, by the way. Hello, Kathleen. We're not partners, we're not brothers, and we're not friends. I'm going to put you down and keep you down until Gans is locked up or dead. And if Gans gets away, you're going to be sorry you ever met me. Nice to meet you. Has he killed people? Oh, yes. Oh, okay. Okay, why are you enlisting us in...

This is a quest of some sort? I'm sorry, I'm putting it in Dungeons & Dragons terms because that's my common reference, but this is like a side quest or something to find someone? No, Gans is out here doing a podcast. Oh. And I need a podcaster to get me close to him.

Oh, he has his own podcast now, even though he murdered people? That's right. He's doing a podcast about his time in prison. Oh, okay. I see. So you came to the podfather. That's right. I need you to get me close to him. Do you have a description? Yeah. He's a bug-eyed white guy, receding hairline.

That's about it. Like a Buscemi type? Yeah, but he's thicker, more muscular. So like a thick... He's like a roided out Buscemi. Roided out Buscemi. Okay, so like a thick with two Cs Buscemi. Yeah. But Buscemi with one C. That's right. Okay. Why not go to Conan or someone who's like more successful at podcasting than I am? You're the one that's closest to me and you're who I've got.

All right. Okay, I guess. We don't have time to be debating this. We've got to get on the street and find Dan. We still have a good hour left on the show here. So is that going to be all right? Well, what can we do while we're sitting here? Well, you could tell us a little more information other than it's a bug-eyed white guy.

We need to know if we're supposed to find the guy. What else am I supposed to be looking for? He's somewhere in these hills doing a podcast. We got to record somewhere near here. Okay. So you just want us to go door to door listening for people shouting or listening to white men talking to each other? Don't you know the podcast community?

I mean, maybe I know places where some of them are recorded. And why Kathleen? I mean, she's just a guest on the show. This is a happy accident. I'm glad to have you here. But you're not part of my plan. Well, I can't be. I can help. Great. I'd appreciate it. We've got to find Gans. He's got $500,000 he's trying to recover. He's trying to recover? Where's the $500,000? I mean, honestly, Kathleen, this is... Well, if we can find the $500,000, we'll find Gans. Wait, he has it?

He's looking for it. He hid it? That's why he broke out of prison to find it. And he hid it somewhere in the Hollywood Hills? That's right.

Oh, this is kind of the life changing money we were talking about. Yeah. You and I should. Yeah. Well, go look for this five hundred thousand and maybe like a good start. Split it. Seventy five. Twenty five. Yeah, sure. You know, because I know the hills obviously better than you. Yeah. Better. Definitely. That's stolen money. That states evidence. Age. You didn't give 40s, 50s, 60s. Yeah. One of those for sure. All right. Sure. How do you not know this information about it if you're on the hunt for him?

He's a master of disguise. Oh, you didn't mention that. Sometimes he wears a tank top. Sometimes he wears a full shirt. This is not a master of disguise. It's changing his shirt. It's enough to fool me. Okay, so is the bug eyes and all that, the receding hairline, is that a disguise? Is that like spirit gum? I don't know. It could be. Okay. I'm not sure. What did he do originally?

Killed a bunch of drug dealers. Took their $500,000. Well, that's kind of all okay, though, right? Yeah, it's a victimless. Well, he was one of the drug dealers. Oh. Right, so fine. We're still good, right? Well, we can't let him benefit. Well. I mean, how many drug dealers? He killed seven drug dealers. Okay. Four cops. Oh, you didn't mention that cop part. Bad cops. That's why you're mad. Oh, bad dirty cops? Bad cops. Oh, dirty cops. They were drug dealers, too. You can just call them cops. Yeah.

So, I mean, why should we care about this? Honestly, this is like... This seems like an internal matter. Because if I don't find Gans in 48 hours, you're going to jail. Why me? That's right. Why? You, both of you. Ha ha!

Both of us. Both of you. Same jail? Different jails. Different jails. Okay. I would hope there's not a co-ed jail. That would be really weird. There is one co-ed jail. Oh, where's that? It's in Iowa. Oh. I don't know. We're so progressive for Iowa. I wouldn't mind going to a co-ed jail with you. What do you think? Well, I just think it could cause problems, but at least it would be protection. Yeah. It's only technically co-ed. They don't have both men and women there right now. Then how is it technically co-ed?

They're open to it. So this is like a mental thing. That's right. Only women have been arrested and put there. Oh, okay. So far. So far. I could request maybe going to the jail. I don't think you can request. It sounds like a dream to me, like being in jail, you know, thousands of women, one man. You're going to do just fine in jail.

What jail did Gans break out of? San Quentin. Wow. Geez. Oh, the big one. The big one. The big house. Yeah. So how did he break out, if you don't mind me asking? Killed seven guards. Dirty guards? Yeah, dirty guards. Okay, well then. Four dirty guards on a bus. Four dirty guards on a bus and three dirty guards somewhere else? That's right. Okay. They were crossing state lines. Why? They were transporting him. To where? Therapy.

Are you the only one looking for him? I think liberal judges made him be able to have therapy in jail, but they couldn't get one in San Quentin. They were transporting him to a therapist. Oh, okay. Are you the only detective looking for him actively? Yes, that's right. And I'm doing this off the books. Why? Just do it on the books. Because I've got to get my gun back. I don't want to let them know that he stole my gun. Okay, this sounds like a you problem. This doesn't sound like a... Well, I've made it a you problem. And if we don't get him back in 48 hours, you're all going to jail. Got that conflict?

Do you want to help him? Well, he could physically get me, but I don't think he'd physically get you. So he doesn't have a gun. We know that. It's been stolen. Oh, I've got a gun. I've got a spare gun. Oh, you have an extra gun. I've got my extra gun. The one that I keep in my shoulder holster is gone. Say your spare gun is your main gun.

There's numbers on these things. What? I didn't know that. Oh, shit. I'm in trouble. Yeah, numbers, barcodes, all kinds of stuff. Microchips nowadays. Oh, man. This is a sticky situation. Well, if there's a microchip, I'm guessing your bosses know that your first gun... Yeah, why not put like a low jack on your gun or something? Your first gun isn't with you. I don't have a computer. I don't know how to search for it. What? The rest of the police could find my gun if I told them that I lost my gun. But I don't want them to know that I lost my gun. Okay. Okay.

I say we help. I mean, a guy without a gun? This is a poor story. I feel bad for this. I do have a gun. His spare gun. The more you say you have a gun, the more I think you don't have a gun. I move the one from my ankle holster up to my shoulder holster, but my ankle holster's empty. It's just got a buck knife in there. Wait, you have a buck knife? Where was your buck knife? My buck knife was in my hip pocket. Okay, so what's in your hip pocket now? A cookie. Okay.

So you didn't have a cookie before? You moved the cookie into your hip? No, I didn't have a cookie. I needed something to balance the weight out. Yeah, have the cookie right now, because it seems like you're low blood sugar. What is this, a Snickers commercial? No way. Why is it capped at 48 hours? Why can't we... What's the ticking clock aspect of this? It just helps move the action along. Okay, but are people going to find out about your gun in 48 hours? Yeah, let's say that.

Why can't we have all week? There's a lot of houses. Within 48 hours, Hans is going to get that money. He's going to be across the border. Oh, you think he's going to Mexico? Or Canada. North or south. I can't tell. We're closer to Mexico. Yeah. So it makes sense you'd go to Mexico. But he might double cross me by going north to Canada.

Where's he from originally? San Quentin. He's actually from the town of San Quentin? He's a jail baby. Oh, he was born in jail. That's right. Never had a chance. Boo-hoo. Tell it to the therapist. Never got there. Can't do it. Sorry, bub. I mean, I do feel bad for the guy. He was born in jail. Well, can't, won't, or don't. You know, that's that 10%. He's in it. Can't, won't, or don't.

Yeah, that's the excuse. Couldn't do it, wouldn't do it, didn't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Not capable of doing it. Yeah, blaming it on the system. Yeah, I'm with him. I'm against this liberal bullshit. Well, if we do join up with you, do we get guns? I mean... No way. Why not? Don't touch my gun. You want me to go door to door with no weapon and you say there's a murderer out there. You want me to go just knock on doors. That's right.

Can I have a knife? You don't have a choice. I need you to do this and you're going to do it now. Can we have like brass knuckles or like a katana sword or something like that? Do you have those things? Yes. Then you can bring them with you. I can? Yes. Okay, why don't I just chop your head off then? Oh, good luck. I have a chainsaw. It's electric. So I could only go as far as the cord goes. What did you just say? Did you just say boogie woogie? It's electric. Yeah. Is that like from a song?

Yeah, the boogie woogie electric.

I think it's the electric slide. Okay, but why are you a detective saying that? I love wedding dances. It's the only time I can really cut loose. All right, top ten wedding dances. Go. The electric slide. That one from the Casper movie. You know, for a guy who loves wedding dances, you can't even name two. I did two. It's the Casper remix of the cha-cha slide. YMCA. Okay. How many more do I have to do? Seven. Seven? Goodness gracious.

Celebrate good times. The chicken dance. Chicken dance. There you go. The first dance with the bride. Okay. What about the Macarena? Macarena. Thank you very much. I was getting to that. I was saving it for last. Three more. That was going to be my topper.

Let's see. Three more. Dance with the dad. The garter dance. Wait, wait. What was the first dance with the dad? Oh, dance with the bride and groom. First bride and groom dance, dance with the dad. Garter takeoff dance. Garter takeoff dance. They play a song under that while the groom pulls the garter off. Yeah, but people aren't dancing. I wouldn't say qualify. You don't dance during that. It's hard not to. I agree. I do all the time. I get my groove on watching a preview of what they're going to be doing on their wedding night.

It's a weird thing, isn't it? Yeah. To be taking off a garter in the middle of, I don't know. And I always say, good choice. Of garter? When I see what's going on underneath that dress. I don't know. I say, good job. How many weddings have you been disinvited to? Usually write about things when I take off. All right, we'll help you. You bring your electric chainsaw. Don't say boogie woogie woogie, please. You gotta say, it's electric. It's electric.

If you would buy me an extension cord, I could go to more houses. It's not battery powered. You got to do it on a cord. That's what I said. It's a plug in. It's old school. It's not gas powered either. Yeah. Can you get an extension cord? These are our demands. Okay. Extension cord. I got to bring my katana. And the brass knuckles. And the brass knuckles. Yeah. Is there a stipend? Like a day stipend?

Per diem? Two per diems, because we've got 48 hours. Okay, so two per diems apiece, so four total? Four per diems total. How much is the per diem? Do you mind me asking? $150. A day? It's not terrible. It's all right. There's been worse thrown out there in this day and age. I mean, three meals, 50 a meal with the tip. Can't buy breakfast with it.

Like, legally? Right, that's one of the stipulations if you get never to eat. Is this going to be one of those no alcohol included in your dinner thing? You can buy all the alcohol you want. Oh, great. But you can't buy breakfast. Why no breakfast? I don't want to get into it. It's on the envelopes. When you sign for it, you're going to have to sign no breakfast. So are we not allowed to have breakfast or we just can't pay for it? Right, you're all doing intermittent fasting until we're done for the next two days. Okay, 48 hours. I don't know if I can do intermittent fasting. Breakfast is an important meal.

I am not a breakfast person. And I'm not a dietician, I'm not a nutrition, and I'm not a chef. It sounds like you are. You're talking about intermittent fasting. Right. I don't even know the details and you know them. You're saying I can do it. I don't know. I never read about it. Just skip breakfast.

I have no problem with that. Don't eat while you sleep. Don't eat at night. All right. Okay. I don't think I have a problem with not eating while I sleep. All right. Do you have a camera on you while you're sleeping? No. Do I need a camera on me? You want to make sure you're not eating while you're sleeping. Yeah. He's saying you're going to get up like an ambient stupor and go have a whole meatloaf and go back to bed. This feels like it would take up most of my day than watching myself sleep for the rest of the day.

Like I sleep eight hours. So I'm supposed to the next day, spend eight hours watching myself sleep. Fast forward or something. What happens to you if they don't find them? We don't find Gans. Yes. So what, who do you think we're talking about?

If they find out that a criminal's got my gun and he uses that gun to commit a crime, they're going to pin it on me and think I'm a dirty cop, just like the four dirty cops of the seven that were killed. Wait a minute. So all these dirty cops, he used their gun. Are you sure that he they didn't just lose their guns? I was there when it happened. I was posing as a dirty cop. I was a double dirty cop. I wasn't dirty, but I was clean. And then why were you not killed?

Oh, he took my gun. And while he was looking at the numbers on it, I jumped over a bush, rolled down a hill. We were up on the top of a hill. It doesn't look like you could jump that high. No offense. Didn't say it was a tall bush. Okay. How tall is it? The smallest of the plants. Why is he looking at these numbers? Just to make sure that it wasn't a gun he'd used before? That's right.

That's what I do with all money. I look at the serial number. Right. I use this one. If it's good for liar's poker. Yeah. It's the only reason I look at it. All right. So, but you think you will go to jail? They'll think you're a dirty cop? They'll frame me. They'll think I'm part of this killing drug dealers and dirty cops and trying to get this $500,000. All right. All right. And then we would all be in prison together, I guess, because... Yeah, because if I go down, you're all going down. But

Okay. I mean, if we all go to the co-ed prison, I think I'm okay with this. Yeah, I was fine in the summer. Yeah. Can one podcast in prison? Well, Gans didn't have a podcast until he broke out. So I don't think so. It's an interesting career move to just like segue into podcasting from being in San Quentin. We got so many terrible stories.

Just a horrible life he's had in there. And that's what he podcasts about? Yeah. People love to hear about it. How do you eat the food that's in there? What do you get at the commissary? That's the same thing. So you've listened to a lot then. Yeah. Are you a fan? I think you're a secret fan. Yeah, absolutely. Do you work for the police department? No.

Not on this case. I have been retired for some time. Okay, so you're just a podcast fan who's heard this guy. I'm against him. I didn't sign up.

I got some of his merch. You just want to meet this guy. No, he's got my gun and I got to get it back. Oh, sure. The more he talks about this gun. Well, he's sticking with that story. He hasn't, as the daughter of a lawyer, I'm going to say he hasn't wavered from his initial story. So then you kind of have to believe that part is true. I don't know about the rest of it. Yeah. All right. Well, look, if we can find Gans, you know, we can go down to...

You know, I guess that your wolf office is... That sounds promising. What company is this with? I don't know. You don't listen to the stings at the end? I need you to walk me through the city underbelly of the podcast world. Please don't tell your father.

No, I won't. Now that I know your dad's a lawyer, please don't tell him. All secrets safe here. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, can you stick around? We need to take a break and then talk to another guest before we do this. Oh, my God. I'm going to be pulling my hair out this whole time. It's okay. It's okay. Just try to relax. Like, you're on a podcast now, so you're sort of like this guy, this Gans guy. You know what I mean? And you're not really doing anything active to find him. You're counting on us, so it doesn't matter until we're done.

All right. We can put out an APB while we're recording the rest of the show. All right. You can finish the show, but I'm keeping you on a short leash. Okay, great. So if anyone out there, any podcast fans out there have seen like a weird, reedy looking bug eyed guy with a receding hairline, could be 40s, could be 50s, could be 60s, anywhere in there, maybe 70s, could be 30s.

wearing either a tank top or like a shirt with sleeves, then call in, let us know, and we'll be on the hunt for him. I am in agreement with that. Okay, great. Okay, that's all I ask of my guests is to agree with everything I say. Well done. All right. We need to take a break. When we come back, we'll have a psychology professor. Maybe, oh, this would be interesting. Maybe he could help us get into the mind of this killer and he would help us track him down. All right.

That sounds good. I'm into that. You're really relaxed now. You're not on edge at all. I think you're enjoying this as much as Gans does, your podcasting situation. Well, you've made me understand. Here I am. I'm sitting at a table. I got a mic in my face. I got cans out of my head. So you're even calling them cans now. We're right with Gans. Okay. Does this come up on his show? Yeah, yeah. It's Gans in the Gans. Gans in the Gans, yeah. Yeah.

We need to take a break. When we come back, we will have a psychology professor. We'll have more with Detective Jack Cates. We'll have more with Kathleen Madigan. We'll be right back with more Comedy Bang Bang after this. For 25 years, Mike's has been making lemonade the hard way. Mike's Hard Lemonade. Hard days deserve a hard lemonade. Mike's is hard, so is prison. Don't drive drunk. Premium all beverage with flavors. All registered trademarks used under license by Mike's Hard Lemonade Company, Chicago, Illinois.

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I was going to say information, but I just and then I said, let me shorten this. And I said, in for. All right. You can go in for everything on the website. That's not a bad way to shorten information, right? Like, well, we've all agreed on info being so great. How about in for? Or inform. Inform. Thank you. Yes. People can get that at KathleenMadigan.com.

We also have Detective Jack Cates here, who's really relaxing at this point. Like, are you drinking something? Cat Williams style? What is going on? I'm drinking Pepto-Bismol because I got ulcers. I'm so stressed out about this. Okay. Well, we still have another segment on the show. We have C-Block to do, but then we can get out there and we can look for what's his name again? Dams. He was housed in C-Block. Oh, okay. Well, that's quite a coincidence. Wow. Yeah. What's his first name?

I think I said Albert. It's not Danny. Not Danny Gantz. It's not Lowell? No. Okay.

Of screenwriting fame? No, I don't believe so. No. Okay. All right. He's a rogue one. Okay. Yeah. Albert Gans? I think that's right. Albert Gans. It's not the hardest name for, you know what I mean? It's just a real guy's name. Okay. I'm just saying. He wasn't named by a screenwriter who was trying to make him sound tough and ominous. I'm just saying, if he ever wanted to punch up his name, I mean, tougher sounding names out there. He was named by a woman named Gans who was also in prison. What?

So he spent his entire formative years in prison? That's right. Wow. And he never did anything wrong? Well, I mean, he was born to a conflict. Okay. That's bad enough for Freddy Krueger. Yeah.

Freddy Krueger, one of the bad guys out there of sentiment. He's the son of a thousand criminals. Yeah, but Kathleen wouldn't know what we're talking about because you don't like fictional crime. I've never seen those movies. Yeah. I mean, I'm aware of them. Do you know who he is? He's Catholic. Freddy Krueger? Yeah. Is he the one with the mask? No. I'm going to say no. He has a burned face. Oh, maybe that's what I'm thinking of. He's the guy with knives for... Oh, yeah, yeah. Culturally, I know. Culturally, you know. But I don't watch horror films. His mom was a nun.

How do you know so much about Freddie? I'm a big fan. So the two things you like, the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise and this guy, Albert Gans, who has a podcast. I don't like Gans and I watch Nightmare on Elm Street to get into the mind of criminals. OK, well, speaking of getting into the mind of criminals, hopefully our next guest will help us with that. He's returning to the show. He's we need to welcome him to the prestigious Two Timers Club.

Please welcome back to the show, Professor Robert Canasta. Greetings, Scott, Kathleen, Detective Cates. Wonderful to be here. Thrilled to meet you all. Wonderful that, well, I mean, you're meeting these two, but we have met before. That's right, Scott. We have met. If I recall, last time I was here, we shared a few beers and some Aperol together.

I don't recall that. I think you were on the show, and then I had you leave immediately. Not to no-but you, but... Well, memory is an interesting thing. Something that...

I study in psychology sometimes. Memories are, yes. Remind everyone, what did we talk about? Well, I gave you a little bit of backstory about me, how I got into psychology, if you'll recall. That's what I'm asking you for, is like, give us that backstory again, because it's been months and months and months. So when I say remind us of what we talked about, I'm not saying like...

remind you about in a metatextual sort of way the fact that we were discussing my backstory. You'd prefer for me to just repeat what we did last time. Not repeat the entire thing. I just want to know because I don't remember anything about you. Of course. Well, I explained that when I was a college student

in order to get extra beer money i would participate in psychology studies at the psychology department for instance the first one i ever participated in i was taken into a room and given a cheerio on a plate and the researcher told me that i could either eat the cheerio or if i waited five minutes for the researcher to come back without eating the cheerio i would get the second cheerio

And I immediately ate the first Cheerio and went home furious. But I got $20 out of it to get some beer money. Why didn't you buy Cheerios with it? Because it seems like you really loved the Cheerios and you wanted that second Cheerio.

Well, because I guess really it was the context of being in a situation where they were giving me a task to get the Cheerios. Really what made me want it. And was there a stipulation much like Detective Kate's here where you were not allowed to buy Cheerios with the twenty dollars that they give you or. They did have me sign a form when they gave me the twenty dollars that said I wasn't allowed to eat breakfast and.

Yeah, this seems like a common thing these days. The non-breakfast clauses in contracts. I don't know. It's pretty standard. Okay. How much time did they give you to choose? Uh, to choose? Oh, well. It wasn't a 48 hours kind of situation or? They said that they would be back in five minutes. So all I had to do is wait for five minutes, but I couldn't even wait that long. Was it just a regular or a honey nut?

Uh, it, now I'm thinking back to that delicious bite of Cheerio that I had as soon as they walked out of the room. I believe it was just regular Cheerio, which was good for me at that time, but

Once they came back and said that I couldn't have a second Cheerio, I went red. You flew into a rage. I flew into a rage. Yeah. But then the next morning I realized, oh, how fascinating that I lost control of myself. And that's what led you into getting into psychology. Exactly. Yes. Up to that point, what had you been studying in school? Oh, I believe it was gynecology. Yeah.

Okay. That's not a choice I'm making in the moment. That was something that was established last time. So it seems like there are so many other things to lead you into being interested in that more than just a Cheerio.

leading you to being interested in psychology, but that's how funny life is. It just takes you to places we don't expect. Well, when you think about it, we spend so much time in our own heads trying to figure ourselves out that I thought, okay, well, maybe I'll devote the rest of my life to learning more about human consciousness, why it is that we do the things that we do. This Gans character sounds like an interesting example of...

The type of behavior that we in psychology might want to understand. Sure. It actually reminds me of another study I was involved in as a psychology student where we were trying... This is one, by the way, the first study you were not a psychology student at the time. No, that... You were a gynecological student. I was a...

I was... Well, I guess I was pre-med with the intention of eventually becoming a gynecologist. So then suddenly now, cut to, or smash cut to... Yes, I did a few studies as a student and then realized I want to change my major to psychology. So now you're a psychology student. You do another study. And what is this one? Well, this was a study that was...

Yeah.

This particular study that we'd been devising was actually originally intended to be performed on rhesus monkeys. And they performed it on humans instead? Well, what happened was the shipment of rhesus monkeys that the department was supposed to get was delayed. So they turned to me and they said, Robert, why don't we, with the time we have, because

this grant money is burning. Why don't we just throw burning a hole in their pocket? It's burning a hole in their pocket. We're dying to spend this grant money. We can't wait. So we've already got the experiment set up. Why don't we put you inside of it? Since the whole purpose of this is to learn about human beings and

Sure. Through testing. Why do these animal tests? Just go straight to the human. Let's cut to the chase. Yeah, exactly. So what they did was they placed me inside of a cage.

In the cage, there was a large bottle of milk. The bottle of milk had a face of a mature female rhesus monkey placed onto it. It wasn't a bottle that came with that. They placed it onto it? No, they printed out a face of a mature female rhesus monkey and taped it on the bottle. The rest of the bottle was surrounded in a soft terrycloth fabric

fabric okay so they placed me in this cage i look at the bottle that's soft and it has this female rhesus monkey's face and i said okay this must be my mommy it's she's soft she nourishes me with her milk she loves me

Wow. I felt comfortable. I felt cared for. I felt wonderful. Then they, what would have happened in the experiment is they would have released the rhesus monkey into an environment with other rhesus monkeys and observed how it reacted. But since there were no other rhesus monkeys there, they said, okay, Robert, just go out into your life and report back what happens. Well,

Well, I left that cage. I left my warm mommy's embrace and I went out into the world. I was confident. I was happy.

I found it easy to make friends. I had a girlfriend all of a sudden. Just like that, I made a girlfriend that day. I went to a party. Everybody was calling me Rob the Slob. Is that a good thing? In college, that's a great thing to be called. I was partying. I was dancing on top of a table. I was twirling around carefree the best night of my life.

I went back the next day. I reported what happened and they said, great. Thank you very much. The next day. So this is, so then they said, thank you very much. Then you went back to, to your house. No,

No. Or your dorm, I guess? I was back the next day to report how my night had gone. So they didn't just say thank you very much and you left? No, they said thank you for your report. They took their notes and then it was time for the second part. The second part. And did you get extra money for that? Uh...

They promised me that at the end of the two days, they would pay me two per diems at the end of that. I see. So you didn't after the first day get half the money? No, I didn't get any of the money yet because they didn't want me to...

They needed me to be in the same state both days as a control. Okay, interesting. So this took 48 hours. This took 48 hours, yes. Standard two day per day of no breakfast. Exactly. The second day they said, okay, we're putting you back in the cage.

Now, all of a sudden, the bottle with the mature female rhesus monkey's face on it was covered in wire and sandpaper. My mommy was cold. She was not comforting. She seemed to not care that I was even there. Yes, she would give me milk, but it felt like a functional thing just to keep me alive.

Because if she didn't, she'd be considered a bad mother. But I didn't get the sense that she really cared whether I lived or died. Then they took me out of the cage and they released me back out into the world. I was scared. Everyone seemed alien to me. My girlfriend asked me if I wanted to go get dinner and I got annoyed.

Why? It's a common question in a relationship. I don't know. It's something about it felt transactional. It was like all of a sudden I was like, what does she want from me? Or maybe I was thinking, what can I give her? I can't give anybody anything. Well, you could have given her some of your upfront money. I could have. That's beer money, though.

Well, the beer money, I hadn't received my per diem yet. Wait, this is the end of your 48 hours, though. Well, this is, yes. This is what happened. Well, the... Clock's ticking. This is the second day of the 48 hours where... The second day, I'm in the second stage. So this is a 48-hour, three-day process? Yes.

This is a... That's a whole nother 48 hours. Sounds like a 72 hour. The first 48, the first 24 hours, what I'm saying is the entire thing... You get to the cage, clock starts. Yes. The next day... The first cage with warm, embracing, loving mom. Next day, you're in the second cage, that's 24 hours have elapsed. You have another 24 until the third day. So this is like what they do in hotels where you're like, oh yeah, you're staying for...

You know, seven nights, six days or the opposite. The second cage was the next day. I basically came back and reported what happened on the first day. I immediately was placed. That's 24 hours are now elapsed. Yes. You have another 24 to go. You have to return on the third day. Oh, yes. I see what you're saying. Oh, thank God. I guess if I. Yeah. 48 hours, give or take a few hours because I have to come back and give my report. Might be talking 50. Who knows?

Were you arriving at the same time every day? Oh, gosh, this was like 1973. Well, it seems like you remember every other detail. Well, I could go through my calendar. I really don't want you to do that. Anyway, what happened on the third day? On the third day, I came back. I reported what happened to them, and I explained that everything had changed, that I felt better.

distant that I felt completely dead inside. I said, could you please put me back in the cage with the warm mommy? They said, no, the experiment's over. Here's your two day per diem. Get the hell out of here. Except come back for class later because you're a student in the psychology department. Mm-hmm.

And so all of that is to say that an environment such as the one that Gans grew up in could have a serious effect on someone's behavior. So if Gans was given to his warm, loving mother after he was born and not thrown into an empty jail cell, that would have changed his makeup going forward psychologically? I believe so, based off my experience. Of this one test back in 1970, what'd you say, three? 1973. 1973.

Hmm, I don't know. Or just a warm monkey. Wouldn't even have to be his real mom. Yeah, with a photo of a face on it. Yeah, or a photo of a person on a monkey. That probably would have been better than nothing, a cold cell. What happened to all these recessed monkeys?

Oh, the recess monkeys did eventually arrive. They did? They did, yes. What ended up happening to them? A couple weeks later, they decided to actually run the experiment with the recess monkeys. Yeah, you're calling him recess just like he is.

Interesting how the mind plays tricks on you. Well, I mean, you would know. I would know. Yeah. Recess monkeys. So they re-ran the experiment with the monkeys. Did it have a different result or? It basically showed the same thing that I experienced. And weirdly, they didn't really include my whole part of it in the final paper they published. That is strange. Do you have a mother? A real mother? Do I have a real mother? Yeah. Well, yeah.

Because it seemed like five minutes in that cage, you were like, this photo's my mom, and I'm a monkey. You forgot that you were an adult. We didn't talk about him thinking he's a monkey. No. At one point he said there were no other monkeys there but me. That's like, hey, Mr. Freud. Oh, yeah. Now all of a sudden the cop here's got your... It's sort of fuzzy. It's hard to remember...

if I have a real mother or not, when I think mother in my head, I really just have the last impression of sandpaper, wire, cold, monkey. You don't remember having parents, mother? Well, I suppose I remember both.

being raised by two human beings who gave me a pretty good childhood i don't really remember anything out of the ordinary you're sure it was a good childhood because it seemed to me like the very first instance of a substitute mother just being a warm glass of milk comes along you're ready to throw her overboard huh well i suppose you're like casually interested in gynecology

Yeah, I don't think you're very attached to these. I had a pretty bad drinking habit. The whole reason I was doing this was to get extra beer money in the first place. So you already had beer money, so this is extra beer money? Oh, well, yeah, to get extra beer. Well, I had some money. You had money for beer. Yeah, but it wasn't allocated toward beer specifically. I'm just saying, if you've upped your intake of alcohol...

You know, maybe that plays into it as well. I don't know. You're not making the best life decisions. No, I suppose I wasn't. The best life decisions I was making were those 24 hours after being with the terrycloth mommy. Well, a lot of people your age would have donated their blood for money. Seems like a lot less traumatic. Or semen. Yeah. Right? Did you ever think about that? Yeah, donate your blood for semen. No, you're semen for money, I think is what I was saying.

What a weird trade that would be. Not safe. I think that you can... Well, I guess... Well, blood, you can only donate it that so frequently, right? I mean... Probably. You can't go donate blood every day. I guess you could donate semen. I guess you could donate semen every day. Psychology studies were easy to sign up for and seem like...

I don't know why I'm being grilled about the decisions I made to make $20. To be honest. It seems very traumatic. Yeah. You're the one who brought it up immediately. And it was only $20, really? So 10 and 10? This is a three-day process. And 1973 money. Yeah, that's right. That's a good point.

uh yeah well i just was bringing up uh uh uh i brought it up because gans made me think of this experiment that i don't think hands is the one that made you think i feel like you've been thinking about this for the last 50 years you think so i don't i'm i'm not a psychologist you're the psychologist

I am. Well, this was just like one in a series of experiments I've been involved in. I mean, not all of them ended horribly. Another experiment I was involved in after that one, my advisor said, OK, we'd like you to help us with we'd like to help. This is after the experiment. This was after this experiment. So we don't need to talk about the actual experiment.

Or this is the experiment you just talked about? This is a different experiment. So we don't need to talk about that experiment. We're cutting to right to after the experiment. Okay. I just want to be clear. Oh, after the previous experiment we were talking about. Got it. Okay. I guess I didn't realize until now how much that was. So this is sequentially the next experiment? Well, it was after. Okay. Look, I don't know why I care.

Just keep talking. I guess I didn't realize that this particular experiment may have had such an impact on me because there were so many. So many experiments. And there were none others that you remember like this? They were that traumatic. This next one sticks out in my mind. I don't remember it being particularly traumatic, but it was certainly...

Just one of many experiments I've been involved in. I was my advisor said would you like to be part of running an experiment and I said, okay, that's Fascinating I will get to be on the other side of things And the way that it was set up was that My advisor would be reading a quiz asking questions of a participant and

in one room. I would be in a room next door in front of a machine that was hooked up to the participant. Each time the participant gave an incorrect answer, my advisor would instruct me to administer an electric shock to them. Why isn't the advisor administering the electric shocks? It seems like there's a middleman suddenly, like you're involved, like...

He has to tell you to do the shock. Well, I think he wanted me to be in a different room so that there would be some separation between me and the participant. It's like we could get rid of one of the rooms and one of the people involved. Well, these have to be designed in a very specific way to be able to test... I'll take your word for it. I really don't know. Anyway, continue. And so each time the participant answered a question incorrectly, I...

I would be instructed to administer a shock and each time the shock would get more and more powerful. And so, the participant would answer some questions correctly, then they would get one wrong, I would administer a shock, I would hear them scream, then I would have to raise the dial, they would answer some more questions, and so on. Each time getting them wrong, I would administer a more and more powerful shock until finally

I was administering such a high voltage that the screams were unbearable, and then eventually they stopped. I kept pressing the button. Without incorrect answers? Well, I wasn't sure what was happening in there, because all I could hear was... Oh yeah, when in doubt, just keep pressing this button. Well, because I would just hear the command, and I would do it. And then they came into my room. They said, Robert...

Wow. Wow.

So what? Does that make me some kind of asshole? They said, yes. Some kind of asshole. You're the asshole. So this is like, am I the asshole? But in 1973. That's what they titled the paper that they published. It's called, am I the asshole? Am I the asshole? Really? And so, you know, I've been involved in a number of experiments like that. Who knows what sorts of psychological. You started this by saying they haven't all been bad. That sounds horrible. Well, like.

You should have been arrested for that one. I suppose I learned something quite fascinating about my nature that day, which is that if someone gives me an order, I'll obey the command. If the monkey one had been reversed and you met the wiry one first, and then the second day you met the soft one, do you think you would have tried to kill that guy?

So if the last imprint of motherhood I had was that soft terrycloth mommy, perhaps I would have had the self-esteem to question my boss, is what you're saying. Yeah.

Jesus. I have to say... More confidence. Robert, as... You're a guy who's supposed to know psychology and all this. I mean, Detective Jack Cates is here. He's just bringing up just, you know, the bare minimum of what anyone would know about this stuff, and it's surprising you? Well, I mean, this was back when I was a student. And I'm a cop. I'm an expert on human behavior. That's true.

What do you see, Detective Jack Cates, when you see Robert, Professor Robert Kinnett? I'm surprised you're a professor, honestly. Did you graduate? It seems like these guys were just performing experiments on you every single day. I did graduate some. That's a good question. I think I did. I was a participant in enough. I was related to enough studies that were published by other people. You got course credit for this and then you just graduated? It was enough to get my PhD. PhD. But...

To be honest, mostly I've been the subject of every experiment that I've been involved in. I can tell you this by looking at him. He's got a piece in his back pocket tucked into his jeans. You have a gun or weapon in the back pocket of you? That's a dangerous place to keep it. I've got a gun in my back pocket? I can tell by the way you hold your weight. Well, uh... I don't think he does. I would pay that no mind.

Don't go for it. Because I definitely have a gun. If I didn't have a gun, I don't think I would say I would pay that no mind. That wouldn't be like... I mean, I would pay no mind the way I'm shifting my weight around in my chair. Oh, there might be another reason for it? Or it's none of my business? That's what I'm saying. Which one? I gave you two options. I'd say you should stop this line of questioning, partner. I can't stop until I get to the bottom of it.

If you think that I've got some sort of gun that I took off of someone else because I'm crazy. Wait, hold on a minute. Well, that's because you got the wrong monkey. Wait, wait, wait. Did you steal that gun? No, I'm... Do you have a podcast?

That's what I came on here to... You're here to promote your podcast? Oh, God. You've got to help me find Gans. I think this guy is Gans. Yes, I would love to help you find Gans. You and me, a detective and a psychology professor teaming up to find Gans...

Could be really wonderful. You just keep your hands where I can see them, convict. Okay, will do. Do we have to be involved now? Because I think we're out. Yeah, it seems like the more people get involved in this, like the more crowded the car is and I need a lot of leg room, you know. Yeah. All right, but don't leave town. Don't leave town? No, we'll be right here at this table if you need us. I'm going to Paraguay tomorrow. You might want to come back on. Paraguay! I'll do it if you want to come back on. Okay. I'll be here. All right, you'll be here. Kathleen can host. I'm going to Paraguay.

For only a month. Is that okay? For a month? No. 48 hours max. You've got to get back from Paraguay in 48 hours. I can't. Just getting there takes at least... Put a ticking clock on it. It makes it more fun. Oh, my God. Well, I don't know, Kathleen. What do you think about this?

It's a long road for this man. Yeah. I hope he does all his neurons and finishes up. You're awfully old. I mean, college in the 70s. I made you 20 in the 70s. Yeah. I mean, you're in your 70s. Yes. If you went to college in the 70s, you're in your 70s. That's always been true. Yep.

If you went to college in your 70s, you are in the 70s. You are in your 70s. If you went to college in your 70s. In the 70s. Get this right, professor. There's smoke coming out of that. There's a lot riding on this. If you went to college in your 70s. Come on. Just don't start saying Barston again. Well, it wouldn't make sense for me to say Barston because that's one of the three stooges and we're not talking about that right now.

All right, Professor, I don't know. You don't know? I don't know. I don't know either. I don't know how to help you. I don't know how to harm you. I don't know what to do with you. Well, I just wish that, you know, like my wish for my mommy, that you would just support me. All right, we only have time for one final feature on the show, and that is, of course, a little something called plugs. What it is, what it is, what it is.

What is it?

All right. Well, let's get into plugs. Kathleen, what do we want to plug here? Well, I have a special on Amazon, Hunting Bigfoot. You can go watch that. And then go online and get tickets. Come see a real show. Yeah. Yeah. Live show. It'll all be different. Comedy's better in person. Yeah. So is music. Every show is different.

For the most part. You do a new hour every night. Every night. Every night. Yeah. Faster than Seinfeld. You know, there'll be something new. Yeah. One of the greatest. And Detective Jack Cates, what do you want to plug? You're going to catch the old sitcom classic AP Bio on Peacock. That's still banging around out there. They have air conditioning on that show.

From what I heard, they had those big tubes that they would bring in in between scenes to pump cold air in and then it had to be turned off. No good. No, not at all. Not on my show. No. Constant blasting of air conditioning on my show. So nice. I'd like to work security for you for that job if that's possible. Oh, great. Yeah, I'd love that. Yeah. So AP Bio is on Peacock right now. Yes. Great. And then you can check out Charlie the McCracken on Instagram. He does not post, but there's some old photos of bread.

Okay, great. All right, wonderful. Professor Robert Canasto, what do you want to plug? Well, I'd like to plug on behalf of one of my students, James Mannion. You're teaching? Yes. I don't think this has ever come up. Oh, yeah, it does.

I am a teacher. I do research mostly, but I do teach psychology 101 to college students. And one of my former students, James Mannion, he is in an improv group, Leroy, that performs fourth Wednesdays of the month at the UCB Theater. In Los Angeles. In Los Angeles. And look out for the show, the live show Comedian Feud at the Elysian Theater. There will be one in May and June. Okay.

None in July? What's going on? None in July or August, but then it will be back in September. What's going on in July and August? Not enough comedians feuding? Yes, there's the detente.

They've decided to stand put aside their differences for the summer so that they can go on vacation. Wonderful. Well, I want to plug. Hey, look, the comedy bang bang tour is out there. We're going from June, June till the end of August.

uh, or going to a 30 some odd cities, going to a city near you, uh, hopefully. And if you don't live near one of these cities, honestly, just pack your shit up and move and just get near one of these cities. I mean, honestly, uh,

go head over to cbbworld.com slash tour, and you can see all the dates there. And while you're at CBB World, subscribe. Look, we have so many great shows. We have ad-free episodes of this as well as all the previous episodes. We have ad-free Freedom. We have College Town. We have Neighborhood Listen. We have Scott Hasn't Seen.

We have CBB Presents, where people from this show have their own shows. Probably not Professor Robert Canasta here. I don't know that you're going to get a spinoff. Do you want a spinoff? Oh, why, sure. Anything that would bring in more grant money. More beer money? Well, yes. And what was the Aperol thing?

Oh, yeah. There was a thing where the only alcohol I had in my dorm room was beer and also Aperol, but we only drank them separately. Anyway, head over to CBBWorld.com and you can get all the details for all that stuff. All right, let's close up the old plug bag. Hello!

Oh, yeah. Oh, who was that? That was...

Is it by Barry Overton? Thank you so much to Barry Overton for that wonderful closing up the plugs theme. And guys, I want to thank you so much, Kathleen. So wonderful to meet you. Thanks so much. It was really a nice time. Yeah. And, you know, hopefully our paths will cross again. But I don't know if you want to get out of the one timer club. Look at the two timer club over here.

Yeah, it's looking rough. Yeah, rough stuff. And speaking of which, Professor Robert Canasta, thank you so much for returning. Good luck with all the beer and your students and everything you have going on, your bottle of milk. And, you know, honestly, if you could just clear off a little bit of that counter space, I know your mother would feel better about things. So it's my fault.

It's always my fault, isn't it? I'm not. Look, don't confuse me for a parental figure, OK? I'm not daddy. It's always my fault. There's a few drug dealers that get in my way or a few corrupt cops that get in my way. And that's my fault. Huh? Real Gansey over here. Oh, I'm not Gans.

You're not Gans? I'm Professor Canasta. I think you might remember the name of the therapist that Gans was supposed to go see on his way out of San Quentin. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Detective Jack Cates, first of all, thank you for coming. But, uh... So, did you take Gans's place? Did you murder Gans and take his... Why would you do that? He's a convict. And then escape? And if I've been tracking down some sort of a psychologist...

It was the greatest experiment yet.

Growing up inside of a prison. Wait, you grew up inside this prison? Switching places. Don't move those hands. Keep your hands where I can see them. Seeing if someone who grew up, if I could take over the life of someone who grew up inside of a prison. He's reaching behind his pants. You just wrapped your cookie! Oh, nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nom. Alright, we'll see you next time. Thanks, bye! Nom nom nom.

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