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hey bill here i'm here i knew you would be how you doing brother how are you back in the way look i get i get the bro hug huh yeah you know i brought you something from my garden oh that's nice
Nice. It does look nice, yeah. Have you ever seen a zucchini that big? I think it's a little better than nice. It's substantial. It's substantial, yeah. Well, Jesus Christ. I appreciate that, yeah. I know I was talking to quite such a stud that you find this merely substantial. Oh, that's good. I appreciate it. I mean, it looks like it was genetically modified with elephant cock. I mean, are you kidding? Have you just been at the Iowa State Fair or something? I've been hanging out there a lot, yeah. Okay. Well, don't they have, like,
like biggest vegetable prizes? I think you've got to go there and compete. Have you ever been to Iowa? No, I don't want to go there. I just want you to admit that this is like... It's very impressive. Thank you. It's very impressive. Well, it's yours because I heard you haven't eaten. The elephant cock size. I'm going to take it with me. Well, they said you were hungry. Yeah, well, you know, I'll... Because you're like on the...
You're on the go, go, go, go. All the time, man. Yeah. See, this is what's great. We're having fun. This is what's so advantageous about running for president when you're 38. Because I remember 38. And I still run around the country, but I couldn't do it like that now.
But you've been through that phase. You know what it's like. Absolutely. You can just run your body ragged 24-7, especially I'm sure you don't drink. I mean, you're trying to not have too many vices. But do you think it should be legal nationally?
I think that we should align the federal law with the state law. I think it undermines the rule of law that we have. So that means yes? Yeah, it means yes. Yes, right. Absolutely. Yeah, because it's so silly now. It's a joke. It's a farce. It's a joke that I have to look up when I'm going to a state. And by the way, I don't even do it anymore because I figure if they're going to get me in Oklahoma for having this with me,
they'll be the ones who are embarrassed, not me. Well, also, here's the thing, though, is when you have different standards of law, like when you have that
look the other way and sweep it under the rug, that's when you actually get an unfair state that can target people for saying the wrong thing, thinking the wrong thing. I don't like what you did here. I got to throw the statute book at you and then we're going to do something where we otherwise don't charge it. And historically, racism hid behind states' rights. Oh, absolutely. I mean, this was...
This was part of our past. Right. And today I think political discrimination I think is the new equivalent of unfairness in the law that we've seen for racism in maybe decades and centuries past. Well, I will say this where I think we're fairly in agreement on. I keep saying my mantra is let's live in the year we're living in. Yeah. Because so many people seem to – on the left, this is a left thing –
They seem to want to insist on having our deplorable past permanently stand in for our much improved present, which doesn't mean there isn't work to be done. There certainly are still racists in America and racism. But I feel like we are...
very often not treating it like, oh, this is 2023 now and this is where we are. This is the work that has to be done. But let's not be chasing these phantoms of racism that aren't the parts that exist anymore. Yeah, and I think that we can celebrate that. Yeah, we should. I think that we should celebrate that. Progressives should. I think that we all should. We are all, I mean, in some ways, I am pro-progress, right? Does that make me a progressive, a conservative? I don't know what those labels are.
But I'm pro-progress. And so, you know, I think that the fact that we, what I tell some people, you know, often friends on the left is, have we been hypocritical for most of our national history? Yes, we have. But our worst hypocrisies. Hypocritical, you mean like all men are created equal? Yeah, that we don't live up to, we have, and the point I was getting to is those hypocrisies are our best evidence that we have ideals at all.
Right. Nobody calls Iran a hypocrite. That's a great point. Nobody calls China hypocrite. You can't call them hypocrite because to be a hypocrite, you had to have the ideals in the first place. So then they have ideals. Now, are we a nation of gods or are we a nation of men?
We're a nation of human beings, okay? Human beings are by definition flawed. So if you have a nation built on ideals and it's comprised of human beings and not angels, then you will fall short of those ideals. It's just like definitionally what happens. But at least we have ideals. That's sort of my view on it. And also that we do improve. Yeah. This is what's so annoying about it. I've done many editorials about this, just like...
Again, just live in the year we're living in and stop going after Columbus and like, yes, people were atrocious back then. He committed atrocities. I mean, there are elements of Columbus that we ought to admire and still celebrate today. Well, we wouldn't be here. Well, I guess we would. Somebody would have found it eventually. It's so big. But it's the spirit of exploration, the spirit of being the unafraid. That's what we take on. To have the balls.
to get into three little wooden ships that are probably the size of this room. And to just go. When you didn't know what was on the other side. You thought India was on the other side is what you thought. But it was a theory. You had no idea. Everybody else said you will fall off the edge of the world. That's right. But the reason they did it was because before when the trade had to go through the Middle East, if you wanted to trade with China like Marco Polo,
You had to go through the Middle East. And it was called the middle because they were literally middlemen. Like, all the trade went through. And Columbus basically said, I would rather fall off the edge of the world than have to deal with those people. And the deserts and the conditions. Getting myself through one more day. I mean, these guys were the pioneers, the explorers. And even the...
The founding fathers had that spirit. Like, take another guy who has that spirit, Thomas Jefferson. You have this historical view of Columbus. He's bad. He had. He's evil. He had slaves. Well, he was fucking one of them. Yeah, more than one, I think, is actually the accurate truth. But the reality is he's also a guy. So people say I'm young running for president. I'm 38.
You know how old he was when he wrote the Declaration of Independence? 12. 33. Oh. Yeah, I suppose the difference. That was close. Yeah, but give him credit. Well, yes, you're right. He's writing the Declaration of Independence, and he decides that he needs a swivel chair. You know, I feel like I could use a swivel chair right now, but he decides he needs a swivel chair, so he invented it. Who did? Thomas Jefferson.
Invented the swivel chair? Yes. I thought Franklin was the inventor. Well, Franklin was also an inventor. He invented the Franklin stove. He invented the bifocal spectacles. Franklin's case, he actually invented one of the earliest remedies for the common cold. So all of these guys, they weren't like the kinds who said, oh, no, you're not an expert.
You're not trained in that. They just said, we're going to do it. We're going to figure it out. What remedy? What's the cold remedy? It was something that... It was like a homebrew. But it worked. And it still works? You know, I think there have been... I will say this. I will say this. There has not been a good... Like, for all the things the pharmaceutical industry has created, a cure for the common cold is not on the list. Right. And...
So we haven't gotten further along than Benjamin Franklin did. And the shit that the pharmaceutical companies sell to treat it, the NyQuil's- Was far worse for you than what Benjamin Franklin came up with. And probably in the long run, worse for the cold. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it might treat immediate symptoms a little bit or something, but I mean, some of that stuff, and look, I've- Designed to knock you out so you forget about it. I hate to do anything like that, but like the one symptom I had when I had-
COVID was I had a stuffy nose for a couple of nights. That was really... Are you stuffy right now? No. Okay. Why? Do I sound it? You sound a little bit, yeah. Well, I've got that 24-hour COVID. No problem. No. No. So I did reach for the nasal spray because it was just easier to sleep if I cleared my passages. But
I didn't know that about Benjamin Franklin, huh? Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. Well, Jefferson, I mean, Franklin I kind of knew, but I didn't know about the cold remedy. Jefferson, I guess they were all- And you know the Franklin stove is named after Benjamin Franklin. Yeah, back then there was something called the Renaissance Man. Yes. And a Renaissance Man meant you did everything. And we have lost that. Of course we will. I'm into that. I'm into that. You're a Renaissance Man. I wouldn't say I'm, I wouldn't.
call myself a renaissance man but i but i respect the ideal and yes i do have diverse you aspire to that yes yeah and aspire to be good at different things right i'm not some box right that you check in some sort of ordered society um me and i will have multiple renaissance man you know could speak many languages he knew archery he knew horse sports could be the same guy plays music music sword fighting you know
Should I try to do this on the campaign trail? It sort of gets my team, gets under my team's, makes them nervous sometimes. But we'll play the piano. We shall play college kids in tennis.
When I travel across the country, we'll get the best college players and the local college tennis team hit with them. I rapped to Eminem at the Iowa State Fair. Oh, I saw that. Don't do that again. Oh, why not? Because it didn't turn out well for Kendall Roy on Succession. Oh, I didn't get to that part of it. Oh, well, he rapped at his father's birthday party. Oh, really? Guys who are not rappers rapping, it's just, I'm telling you...
It's just as a friend. But you know, my view, Bill, is I kind of do what I feel like doing at that moment. Yeah, that's the problem. That's kind of my general. And that's the spirit of our renaissance. Okay, but I don't want president. I'll invent the swivel chair. I'll invent the swivel chair. That's kind of where I'm at. The idea of president, I do what I want at whatever moment is not like an appealing thing. I see why your team is.
is trying to take you away. Just the rapping. Tennis is great. Yeah, well, tennis is more fun anyway. So that's where I'm at on that. Right. But my point is, I think we have lost that spirit, right? Our inner animal spirit as a country, the people who run it, it has been caged. It's been tamed. It's been domesticated by this culture that celebrates vulnerability, victimhood,
And penalizes the pursuit of excellence and being free. And my view is, I think it's a mentality that I, you know, now we're doing well in the polls. When I was at 0.0%, I said the same thing. I'd rather just tell people in this country who I am
And what I stand for. If they want to vote for me, fine. Oh, yeah, you definitely. And if they don't, then don't. I will be very comfortable with that decision. Well, I mean. But I wish more politics. I would wish for more politicians to step up and embrace that. Right. But, you know, like you're whatever you're getting, 7 percent. No one's taking that seriously. Like someone with 7 percent. Now, could you be president? Yes. Things could change. But this is the time when you're at 7 percent.
I've seen this before with politicians when you can say anything because no one's paying that much of attention and it's not like, well, he's not going to, this guy's not going to be president. I know he's a cook who thinks we should get rid of the FBI and the IRS, which is cookie. It's not cookie actually. I'll explain to you why it's not cookie. It's,
the FBI? Yeah, let me explain that to you right now. Who's going to collect taxes and catch kidnappers? You? So let's talk FBI, actually. You want to talk FBI? Oh, jeez. Yes, please. I'm impressed that you've been reading the platform. I do this for a living. This is good. Hello, you've been on my show, right? This is good. Yeah, yeah. You know who I am? Yeah, no, I know. I'm up on political stuff. Yeah, yeah. You're up on political stuff, but this is, you know, getting into the details. So,
Shut down the FBI. Well, that's a pretty big detail. Get rid of the FBI? Yeah, I would shut it down, and I'll tell you why. Oh, Jesus. You're ready to have an open-minded guy. I'm listening. I know you. You'll listen. So that's why I'm bothering with this, right? By the way, I have a book recommendation for you before I get to it. G-Man. Government Man. It's the history of the FBI.
J. Edgar Hoover's history of the FBI. You read that book, that will already open your heart and mind to the argument I'm about to make. I'm already reading a book about crossdressers, so I can't. Okay, well, this can come next. Crossdressers are important too. But the gist is this. The FBI is a failed institution. It is at once politicized, corrupt, and has been in many ways designed to be corrupt. J. Edgar Hoover designed it that way.
The same FBI that threatened Martin Luther King with suicide, blackmailing him over incorrectly collected tapes, is now targeting its domestic terrorists for people who show up at concerned parents of school board meetings. So in some ways, it's built in by design. That's coming from the FBI? Yeah, it's coming from the FBI. Now, here's an answer to this, okay? At the local level, you've got local cops and you've got local prosecutors. You don't have a separate bureaucracy sitting in between. Well, now let's talk about the federal level.
You've got the U.S. Marshals and then you've got the DOJ. The DOJ has its issues, but I think the president can reform that through good appointments. You don't need the separate bureaucracy sitting in between. So I'll walk you through the math because I know you like details for this to be credible. Well, certainly for this issue. Yeah, for this issue, right? Because you brought it up. 35,000 employees at the FBI. 20,000 of them report into work at the J. Edgar Hoover building. Still, they celebrate his legacy.
The J. Edgar Hoover building of the FBI they walk into. That's the bureaucratic rot. That's in D.C. So you're saying 20,000 of the 35,000 FBI men work in Washington in the same. They fit 20,000 people in one building. I mean, it's a giant building. 20,000 people. I don't know. I don't know how many of them show up in the post-COVID era for Zoom or whatever. And they have field offices. That is a big goal. But I'm saying our back office functions.
15,000 of them are frontline agents. These are good people doing investigative work on drug crimes or sex trafficking or whatever it may be. They're not specialized at the FBI. So I've offered, if I may say it myself, unprecedented detail.
on how to get this done. Those 15,000, move some of them to the U.S. Marshals, which have been far more effective at fighting child trafficking rings than the FBI. Move some of them to the DEA, which has been far more effective on the front lines of the fentanyl epidemic than has been the FBI. If you're going to get rid of an agency, why don't you get rid of that one, the DEA? Well, actually, the investigative crime, I mean, just
Then we have laws in this country. So you can debate whether you like the laws or not. But I'm saying as long as you have the laws, we're talking about effectiveness here. And my point is the FBI is broken. Take financial crimes. So you're saying the 20,000 people who work in Washington, they are all superfluous? I can't tell you that every one of them to the last T is, but I've got four years to first term. I got to move quickly. And so I say chop it off, shut down the FBI, move them to the U.S. Marshals, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network at the U.S. Treasury,
to the Secret Service, which handles some financial crime as well, and then to the DEA. Okay, so here's something the FBI was involved with. I'm asking who would handle this. Yes. Say a...
An ally country like Australia has a tip, and we trust that they are an ally and the person is credible. And he has been talking to someone who got drunk in a bar and said he had information about how a foreign country, Russia, was trying to infiltrate our election.
And he was placed in this candidate's operation. He was an operative for the person running for president. So the Australian diplomat tells the FBI. Do you think that's right? Well, I think we could have...
separately talk about the circumstances of that particular case. But you're saying somebody gets a tip. Well, that's how the Trump-Russia investigation happened. Which, you know, I mean, you could argue this in multiple ways, Bill. Well, what I'm arguing is this. You could say that that actually is part of the corruption that led to an investigation that shouldn't have existed. Okay, but what I'm arguing is this, because this is what happened. An Australian diplomat, somebody we trusted, said this guy, it was George Papadopoulos, I think was his name,
was a little drunk one night, and he was telling him about how much the Trump administration
campaign team was coordinating with the Russian government. Now, we can argue the rest of the night about what happened after that. Of course, they did. But should that not be investigated by the FBI? And if not the FBI, I don't see how the federal marshals or who the Texas Rangers are going to handle that one. I actually think U.S. marshals would be a fine place if you move people to that division. As a side... I mean, I...
I'm going to resist the temptation to go down the rabbit hole of debating something that's like a dead horse that we needn't beat for what was, I believe, a deeply flawed Russia collusion narrative that went nowhere. But let's just talk about something like it is your question for the purpose of reorganizing the FBI. We have facts that are, well, at least fact, we have the reports of two Republicans, right? We had the John Durham report.
Right? We have a Durham report, yep. And what was the one before that? The Durham report was about the FBI. Horowitz. Yeah, yeah. They were both about the investigation of the investigation. Yes. Right? Yes.
The FBI opened this investigation into whether Trump was too involved with Russia. Let's just put it that way, based on this Australian tip. And of course, it turned out he was. His campaign manager was sharing polling data with a guy in the GRE. But you know who else was involved, too involved with Russia? Was the Hillary Clinton campaign.
Not that's ridiculous. It was via the British guy, Christopher Steele, with the Russian disinformation operative getting the golden shower story on planted down. All we use is opposition party research to get a face. I know both parties. OK, politics apparently is far dirtier than I ever imagined in both political parties.
And I just don't think it was good for the country, Bill, that we had that impeachment inquiry for the first two years. Let's go back to what we can actually talk about for real. Yeah, because this is just like ancient studies. No, no, no. Because the two reports, the Durham report and the Hart, they both said the same thing. And these are Republicans.
At least Durham is. I mean, to me, I could care less about the partisan distinction. Well, everybody else cares about it. So let's not pretend you don't care. Well, the reason I don't care because there's a lot of – I think about it as whether or not you're part of the managerial class or whether you're actually being accountable. Well, that's important too, but also – And that exists in the Republican Party and the Democrat Party a lot.
But we are crazy partisan right now. And people only stick with their team, even when they know better. I tell grassroots conservative audiences across this country, you want to go to a place like Iowa, and this will surprise some people. I think it's unique to now. I tell hard conservative audiences that I could care less for the Republican Party.
I really could. And I go places like the south side of Chicago. That's not brave. That's how Trump got elected. Well, I mean, I think I hear something that's a little bit. The Republican Party. I'm not claiming to be brave. I'm just claiming to be where the country is right now. The country does not care as much for those partisan distinctions as the observers of politics would think. I went to the south side of Chicago.
I went to Kensington in the inner city of Philadelphia. And those are places where Trump didn't go or where the Republicans don't go. Good for you. Well, the thing that I found is that I here's what I will say. I've probably done hundreds of campaign events. I have not been in a room that was more hard line on two things, closing the southern border and ending the war in Ukraine.
than an audience of 200, mostly 99% of them black Democrats in supposedly hardcore left. Doesn't mean they're right. Inner city of Chicago, which is interesting. Doesn't mean they're right or it's not the right thing to do to keep funding their Ukraine war. We can come to that in a second, but my point was- It may not be. Which is that the partisan boundaries on two of the most important issues of our time, probably the most important foreign policy question right now is what we do with the war in Ukraine.
and a fundamental issue relating to our southern border because they're turning South Shore High School into an encampment for migrants. It's a fascinating finding that no Republican has showed up there. Now, they differed from me drastically, and we had at it. One woman walked out and left when I'm against racial reparations. And so we have real disagreements, but...
The most and I'm not exaggerating this, the most vehement agreement for militarizing the southern border and taking two hundred billion dollars to aid Ukraine for a community that says, wait a minute. A, this migrants getting seven thousand dollars per person per month in South Shore High School. B, we're sending two hundred billion dollars to some other country halfway around the world. What about me?
And there are deep echoes of that in the non-establishment wing of the Republican Party as well, which is why I come back to the fact that, agree or not, with the individual policy positions, I just don't think that right now, the moment we live in, our...
R versus D captures it, which is inspiring, actually, as a possibility. I wish you were right. I don't think you are about that. Not that everything you said there was wrong. I mean, it's important stuff. I mean, it's funny. You're such a good talker, and you're such a likable guy. I think you really could go far. I mean, I must say, you're one of the few guys who I find both disarming and alarming. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you, Bill. That is a compliment. No, I mean it. No, I mean, look, you're attractive looking. You're young. The country is, first of all, here's a big advantage you have. Biden and Trump, people hate this matchup. And they hate that there's two geriatrics. So you're like the most not that. They're both over twice my age, literally. Right. And you've got color in your face that's not either orange or ghostly.
There are older people who can be sharp and there are younger people who have lost their wits. But I think I would like to think, and I think so far we're having fun in this, bringing a young spirit to running the country. Even when I think about the cabinet, this is neither here nor there, but when I was running my companies, one of my philosophies was even in the industries that I was in, right? So the first industry was a biotech industry. The median age at our company for the biotech industry was young in terms of people who work there.
And for me, at least, and this is the way I would run the federal government might be different for other people and the way they built their companies. But for me, I tend to find that people whose peak in their career is still yet ahead of them. I'm not going to say young or old because there could be people who are advanced in years whose peak is still ahead of them. But somebody, whoever it is, is their peak is ahead of them.
versus somebody who actually has a great resume. But by definition, if you have a great resume, it means you've accomplished great things. By definition, if you've accomplished great things for many people, that means that chances are your peak might be behind you and you're obsessed with talking about that.
Boy, do we accomplish a lot more with people whose peak is still ahead of them. So my campaign, fully staffed by young people, my campaign manager is younger than me. Talk about the way I've built my companies. So for the federal government, when I think about my cabinet- But maybe you should have some older people around. A few, a few, of course. You know, every society- But it will lean young, it will skew young. You're from an ancient culture that seemed to understand like most cultures in the world-
the village elders. Yes. You know, Confucianism in China. Like, most countries revere the elders for their wisdom. It's true. You have a great amount of energy at 38. You're super smart. But I do see a, something that alarms me, truly. Fair enough. Because you don't have the wisdom. A,
about certain issues. I don't think you think Trump lost the election. Well, I think that big tech interfered. You and I have talked about this like a year ago. What the fuck does that matter? I want to say... Who got the... Of course big tech interfered. They interfered for Trump. What did... What's the largest...
all about Fox News being... It's the largest illegal campaign contribution in human history. Okay, but who actually got more votes? Biden got, I mean, literally in terms of the number of votes that were counted. Yes, and Biden won the states that... I have seen no evidence to suggest that there was... There is none. That's why you haven't seen it.
And so Biden won the electoral college. I want to come back. Wait, just answer this. No, no, you can't come back. You can't play politician. I want to come back after we're done with this. Did Biden win the correct, the amount of electoral votes that they said he won and therefore is the legitimate president?
I think the reason he's legitimate. Oh, not the right answer. No, the reason the election was rigged was big tech. That's really the answer. Bill, and I'm data driven. It doesn't matter. Big tech is always, yes, it does matter. Here's what matters. But also, but we can't, we can't,
At the moment, it's happened. I accept that Biden's the duly elected president of the United States. Everybody does bad things during campaigns, including using big tech. What matters is then who got the most votes. We have to start with somewhere that's real. That's what's real. Who won those states that puts him in the White House? And you cannot just say to me, yes, Biden won the election.
Yes. Well, I've already said that at the time. So Biden won the election. Biden has the most votes in the election. Biden had the most votes in the election. You can't say those words. It's like you're a husband who can't say. No, Biden had. But the reason is, Bill, I mean, there's good data on this. We were systematically suppressed.
The Hunter Biden bribery story, which is relevant today. That's what... On the eve of an election where most people who are independent said... Many people who are independent, enough to change the outcome of the election, said they would have changed their vote had they had access to that information. It's the greatest form of election interference in human history. No. That's actually the fact. That would be Russia if you're listening...
please find Hillary's emails and then release them on WikiLeaks. That was the biggest breach. I mean, you can't really believe it. You're talking about James Comey and his statements before the 2016 election. I'm talking about Trump. Trump said that. I don't need James Comey. Trump said, Russia, if you're listening, you don't remember that moment? I mean...
You don't remember that? I don't particularly remember that moment. But I'm talking about large technology companies in this last election. I just think if we don't learn from that bill, we're destined to make the same mistakes again. But here's what I'll say. I don't believe you. That's an example of what you'll call lack of wisdom. And we can agree to disagree on that. You're running as like I'm not the bullshitter guy like the other guys. And then you just told me you don't remember when Trump said – I actually don't, but –
It was a giant moment that's been replayed a zillion times. Back when I was in business and- Oh, really? You were that tuned out from politics? What Trump was saying on a given day in 2016- Not a given day. That was replayed a zillion times because he was impeached over this. The impeachment, though, I can talk about. I mean, the impeachment was on a flawed basis. I mean, that's a hard reason. We now understand-
But here's the problem right now. We are still spending. And this is why I'm in this race. We have spent.
literally seven years now, relitigating and rehashing that series of events that whatever they are is not going to change. Well, yes, because that's what's wrong in this election right now as well. Well, that's the nature of justice. When people commit crimes, if they're not punished for it, then they tend to commit the crimes again. So the fact that I mean, I think they're still talking about it. Yes, he's he's got we have I think these indictments are deeply politicized. I think they're
bad idea for the future of the country. Let's just talk about the one that matters, the one where he tried to overthrow the United States government. You don't think that that... You're talking about the third one from Jackson? I'm talking about... The Jack Smith indictment. Absolutely. So I believe that I would, of course, I would have made very different judgments than Trump made that day.
But Trump expressing his view on the outcome of the election, even knowingly telling a lie, is not unconstitutional. It's not a legal violation. Alvarez's case in 2012 famously said politicians can have a First Amendment right to lie. And Jack Smith's indictment acknowledges that, which is the interesting part about this. Okay, but this is not what we're talking about. We're talking about things like
putting up fake electors. That's not just words. They did that. A slate of fake electors. We're talking about a guy on tape saying, this is the one that came down the other day about Georgia, a guy on tape saying, I need you to find me 11,780 more votes.
Now, that alone, if I just had that, wouldn't that be a case? I need you to find me. He's saying they didn't do it right. But that. Yes. So I tried to rob a bank the other day and I didn't get the money. What law? I mean, here's where I'm at. What? Not every bad judgment or every bad act is a crime. What law did that violate? He's the president. What law did that violate? Probably the oath of office that he took when he would defend the United States. That's not what is more essential.
I mean, George Bush violated the oath of office when he sent troops to Iraq. This is why we vote people out. That's how elections work. I know, but... So I think that's the fundamental difference in how we do things in the United States, where you're taking deeply held judgments that you disagree with. Great, go to the ballot box and vote. That's how we do things in the United States of America. Which is exactly what he's on trial for.
Four. One of the counts is cheating people out of their vote. The question is, what's best for the country at this point in time? Well, and I do not think that in the middle of an election. Well, the first thing we can decide. I agree with you that look at the timing of this. And I agree with you that it may prove that we may look back on this and say, because
The indictments only make Trump stronger. He's like a rapper. You know, the more times he gets arrested, the more street cred he has. And I think, you know, the idea that Republicans don't like him because he's, they love that he's a, the porn stars, they love that he was fucking porn. They'd love to be fucking porn stars, Republicans, gay porn stars, but still. I think, Bill, to really understand what's going on in the country, we have, first of all, right now, on one hand, the son of a U.S. president,
collecting multi-million dollar bribes from foreign countries that that president is now arguably making good on in different ways. Oh, gosh. And on the other hand, we have a former president of the United States that currently, by the way, it would be a lot easier for me if Trump were eliminated, by the way. And some of the recent polls this week, I'm in second. Polling averages, I'm in third. It would be a lot easier for me if Trump were out of the way.
I don't want to win this election by seeing a political opponent eliminated by the federal police state. I think that is a disastrous precedent. Unless he committed crimes that police should be apprehending him for. If you want to get into the details on this, let's get into the details. Let's talk about the Espionage Act, which he's being charged under.
That is the most un-American law in our history. Not in this. It's been used to lock up anti-war activists. I'm not sure that is what he's being tried under. For the second indictment, it is the Espionage Act that he's charged under for the documents case. Taking the documents. The documents. OK, you switch the cards.
there. So many indictments. There's four of them at the exact same time. What's going on? It's not about the crime. If it was up to me, I wish they hadn't brought the Stormy Daniels one. I wish they hadn't even brought the, I mean, he's guilty of all these things. Of course. I wouldn't have brought the documents. He's not guilty of anything in the Stormy Daniels. You want to know why? You're a smart guy. Let me just explain this. I don't care about that one. I never cared about that one, but it relates to the ones that followed because it's evidence that there's something else going on here.
So you will agree with me on this one, OK? You say he's guilty of it. Well, let me just test you on this for a second. See how you feel. They said that the crime there was that he should have used campaign funds to pay hush money to the porn star.
You know what? If he had used campaign funds to pay hush money, that actually would have been more of a crime. I'm with you on this one. I did a whole thing on this. I'm pre with you. You're pre with me on it, so I don't need to preach to the choir on it. No, exactly. But the point is, if there's four of these separate things coming right at the same time, smack dab in the middle of an election.
Because it happened. It's like they made it up. But Bill, I just told you they made this one up. They literally made this one up. They certainly did not make up, excuse me, they certainly did not make up the idea that he tried every single possible way to steal that election. I was talking about the first one. That was literally made up in that. I'm talking about the one that's important and you know what's important. He tried it through pressuring Mike Pence.
who was doing something in a very ceremonial role to pretend that he could change the vote. The fake electors. He pressured the secretaries of state and the legislatures. They talked about bringing out the military. They talked about seizing voting machines. This country has done one thing that was more amazing than any other. They've done many amazing things, but to me, the jewel in our crown...
the peaceful transference of power. So many countries cannot get this right. Yes. We were one of the few who could get it right. And one guy, your boyfriend, Donald Trump. Oh, come on. Broke this. Come on. Don't give it. Don't give it. That's exactly what I'm coming. I'm running against him in this race. OK, I think you're running to be his vice president. Well, I'm glad you smoked that view out. I've already said and I'll say it again. I'm not going to work for a
any administration. So you would say no to it? Yeah, I would say no. You would say no to the vice presidency if Donald Trump offered it to you? I don't do well in a number two role. I just don't. To start? You're 38. I don't do well in, I haven't been in a number two role in a long time. I think there's a lot of ways to change this country. Wow. And each person has to look in the mirror and ask themselves, how do you have the maximal impact you can? So I do it through the private sector. I've seen three books in the last two years. I've started businesses. That's what I would do. For you to only go right to the top or,
Well, to me, it's not a hierarchy. It's not about a top. Well, it is. Where am I going to have the most impact? You will literally not be the second most powerful person in the world. If power were if power were my currency and the probability adjusting my power calculus. Yeah, of course you would take it. But if the question is actually how am I using my God given talents to have a maximal positive impact on a country that has given me so much?
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Friday, September 1st, I'll be at the ACL Live at the Moody Theater in Austin, Texas. Saturday, September 2nd, at the Texas Trust CU Theater in Grand Prairie. That's between Dallas and Fort Worth. I looked on the map. And Friday, September 15th and Saturday, the 16th at the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
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I mean, that's the part I love about you. You know, it's like I agree and I find it just heartening when I see somebody who like, I mean, your parents weren't even born in this country, right? No. I mean, this is, I mean, Obama, I'll say something you'll probably agree with this. Obama, when he ran, like, and when he was in office, sounded more like your rival president.
from South Carolina, Tim Scott? Yeah, he did a little bit, actually. Well, I mean, it was more aspirational and like not discounting racism, but not making it the number one thing. And like everything is about that. That was Obama. And that seems like Tim Scott today. Yeah, I think that there's a lot of similarities in that sense between the two of them. Absolutely. Aspirational for the country.
My view is the American dream. Here's where I'm a little different than Tim Scott. But his big line was, my story is not possible in any other country. Obama used to say that. Remember that one? I do remember that one. And it stuck with me. All right. So, I mean. And I think there's a deep truth to that. He doesn't say that anymore, interestingly.
Well, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. When people say, Bill, you've gotten more conservative, I'm saying, no, they changed, not me. I love that. You're allowed to change, too, you're a human being. I am, and I do. I always change with new information. And sometimes I have changed. But basically, I've just been working on a book of all our old editorials. So I read every one going back to 2003. And it was a great way to discover, archaeology-wise, myself. I love that.
Yeah, I loved it too. And, you know, the first 10, 15 years of real time, it was much more one-sided making fun of the Republicans because the left gave me nothing. Obama was a disaster for comedians. He was perfect in every possible way. I mean, there was nothing you could... You and I may say that, but I see where you're coming from. Well, it drove the Republicans nuts. From a left-wing perspective, I'm sure. Well, his personal life...
The fact that no corruption and they were looking for it. The fact that Obamacare was like paid for. Things Republicans used to care about, paying for things. They're being broken with. Now it's just anybody writes a check for anything. Both sides. The Republicans are just the hypocrites because they pretend that they're the fiscally responsible. Well, the way I look at it, that's why I don't talk about Republicans and Democrats, like I said.
I think they're far more on the same party than they are not. But if you party systems, you got to use ballot access to get on a ballot. And that's your team. You can't alienate them. You're going to have to. I know you only want to be number one. I want to unite the entire country. I want to unite the entire country. And I think there's. Well, you can't. Well, Bill, I'm hopeful that we can. I think this. But I sure. Give me that one. Yeah. But here's what I would say is like 20 years from now, I don't think we can.
I think we're in a window where we have a shot at getting this done, on actually not celebrating our diversity, but actually finding a common thread that all of us still share as Americans. I think it exists. Can I give you some campaign advice? You're such a personable guy. You're so smart, and the energy is amazing. But unless you...
Soften on Trump that at least half the country that knows that he's an obnoxious criminal They're never going to accept you as the guy who can unite us. I can't accept you with that take take like a Chris somebody who's in this I'm somebody who is like it's in a different place I'm I'm not motivated by vengeance and grievance. You know how much shit I get from the left a lot. I
I know you do. Yes. I know you do. Because I don't. That's why I'm here. I respect you. Thank you. Because you can actually speak to, in some ways, your own tribe. It's like my thing is, if you expect me to get on the crazy train with you, and if I don't, then I lose my liberal card. Fuck you. You're changing what liberalism, not me.
So, you know, I'm a guy who could be your, like, biggest supporter kind of guy, right? Because I understand your critiques of the left, and a lot of them are valid, not all of them. But that is a albatross around your neck, the inability to call Trump. And just the most fundamental thing about America, once again, not to beat a dead horse, but
The peaceful transference of power. One guy said finally, no, I'm just not going to say it. There is no possible scenario. You should read the transcript of what he was saying to the person in Rafsenberger in Georgia, the one he's just on trial for now. Now, we know about the...
I need you to find 11,000 votes line. The one that I found so chilling, at the beginning, he says, right away, he said, you know, if you saw the lines, I just saw the lines of the people waiting to see me, and there's no possible way I could have lost Georgia. This is a guy who thinks he couldn't lose the state because the lines at his...
His event, this is like me saying, you know, I'm going to be at the MGM Grand September 16th and 17th. That's true. And like I could go outside after the show and I saw the lines to see my show. And there's no way I'm not the biggest act in Las Vegas. Can I just make an observation? He's crazy. Can I make an observation? He's stupid and crazy. I got to make an observation here. You got to decouple from Donald Trump. That's the path. I am running as my own man in this race to lead us to something.
And here's the thing, and this is not specific to Trump, but Trump, anyone, everyone in this race running is included in this. When I say this, the Republican party for a long time has been a party that has been running from something. Okay. Here are all the evil things and we're running from them. I think I am the only person in this race who is actually trying to lead us to something.
to an actual vision of what it means to be an American. You are a thoughtful man. Okay. I am here because I, you are not shackled by some party's orthodoxy. Plainly. Plainly. Or anything. And I'm glad that we've done it twice over the last few years and you've read some of my books and I've read a lot of your work. And there's so much that we could be delving into this question of, you know,
Is there a role for the village elder or not? Interesting. Is there a common thread that unites this country or not? I mean, I think that's the most important question of our time. There's room for debate on it. You could just say we're a bunch of two-legged, higher mammals with different shades of melanin walk in this geographic space and do what our iPhones tell us to do on a given day. Is that the country? Or is there some set of still remaining ideals that bind us together?
That is the conversation that I think we need to have in this country. And yet I'm worried the same thing is going to happen next week on the Republican debate stage that's happening right here is we are suffering a form of derangement about the recent past that at some point we are all going to have to say we lay down arms.
and ask ourselves, do we actually wanna move forward or do we actually just want a national divorce? Do you want the divorce and just be done with it and go home and call it a ball game? - That sounds more like Obama. That was Obama. Let's move forward. Yes. - I don't want to sort of take, and I definitely disagree with Obama on any things, but I know you mean that in a good way, but let us move forward as one nation. And that's the challenge. We live in a more challenging time than we did even in 2008.
And so let me just ask you, do you believe, Bill, that there is like that there is? I have friends who give me the answer to this question. The answer they would give is no. And that we need to get a national divorce and move on with it. I have friends both on the right and the left who say this, which is which is saddening. This talk has to stop. It is saddening to me. Right. No, deeply sad. We agree on that. And so and so then what is that common thread that unites us? What is it? We think it exists. Let's talk about it.
Meritocracy, the thing that my parents came here to pursue. - But that doesn't unite us anymore because the, see this is-- - I think it unites most people but if you're viewing this country through the prism of a TV screen or social media algorithm, then it looks like we don't. - But the people who watch MSNBC,
Which aren't very many, which is a good thing. Okay, but they vote and they... But this is an important point. That's my whole point, is it's a small sliver of the population that creates the image of an artificial division that I think is mostly artificial.
I really do. But those, there is a, that is, we have to admit that that is a, this is what you're always railing against. That is a powerful faction in this country. I'm kind of done railing against it. And you can't. I'm at a different phase than when we first met. Okay. Because we had to see the problem when we did. Now, what are we running to? Okay. That's where I'm at. Wait, those folks, they, you're, you're assuming, I'm making a point of this because I think it's important. You're assuming that.
that this is going to unite us. Meritocracy. Yes, there was a time when everyone believed in meritocracy as the most important thing. But now the other side, those people watching that network believe in something called equity. I'm
I'm sure it's in your book. And there are definitions of equity, which, of course, you would understand. Yes, absolutely. We should strive for that. And then there is a form of equity. Yes. That rubs right up against meritocracy.
I mean, this is colleges getting rid of... Affirmative action. Well, no, exams. Oh, exams. Oh, you're taking the other direction. Yes. I'm saying it's not about merit. We don't care what your score is. I think you're smoking out a good point. Group outcome equality, group outcome equity, and meritocracy are fundamentally incompatible. They are at odds. Yes. I would say...
If you take both of them seriously to their natural limit, they're incompatible. Well, that doesn't mean you can't have a mixture of two things, maybe not 50-50. But, I mean, there do needs to be redress. The point I was going to make for you is, from my perspective, is...
Most people share one vision of that in this country. Enough people share. I think it's 50-50. I think it's easily 80-20 in the direction of people who believe in actual free speech, believe in meritocracy, believe in self-governance, right? The idea that at least Congress should make the laws and not three-letter agencies in Washington, D.C. I think most people believe that that's a good thing.
That's what our founding fathers believed. I think, you know, we may disagree on what the laws of Congress should make, but we agree that Congress should be the one making them. When you put it vaguely like that, a poll of people would say, yes, we agree with that. Like an overwhelming majority. But then when you got to the specifics of threatening agencies. Shutting down an FBI. Or something like that. And you know what? I'll give you that one. Not that I think we should necessarily do it. I'm keeping 15,000 of the 35,000. Your FBI idea is not as crazy as I thought.
Okay? That's a good, that's a win. Can I go to the Department of Education for you too? And also, the fact about 20,000 of them work in that one building in D.C., I didn't know that. See, when I get new information, I do. I process it and I might change my mind. I don't think I'm all the way to let's get rid of the FBI. A streamlining certainly seems in order. Let me just, if I said let's reorganize the FBI to put...
generalist agents into specialized functions in other bureaus in the federal government. Right. I think you would respond well to that. That's effectively what my proposal is. So do you talk about something like that in Iowa? I talk about it in New Hampshire. I was at St. Anselm College. First time this has ever happened. You know, a prosecutor will unveil like a giant poster board. You've seen these things. So what we did is we took giant poster boards explaining, like literally boxes moving them around for the FBI, the Department of Education, the
And then the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is one that I did as well. I mean, this is an agency whose culture is fundamentally hostile to the existence of nuclear energy in the United States of America. It used to be three to four years to build a new nuclear power plant in the United States. You know what it is now?
25 to 40 years. - I talk about this all the time. - You do? Okay. - Well, about like the fact that nothing gets done in this country because these just obscene levels of graft, bureaucracy, red tape. - Bureaucracy. - We can't build housing for the homeless. - Totally right though, because bureaucracy stops new housing construction.
It is the chokehold in our country. So the premise of my, I have two premises. If you could get through that. I'm the anti-bureaucracy candidate. 70, but you can't be scared when I say things like, I want to fire 75% of the federal employee headcount. I just do. Most organizations. I mean, I don't know how. Think of your organization. Oh, oh.
90% of the people, 25% of the people do 90% of the work. No, my operation is lean. Okay, fine. It's not the federal government. They're all good. In the federal government, 25% of the people do 90% of the work. Because the federal government, of course, does not have to answer to anybody.
And there's no meritocracy. Right. Because they have these civil service protections. Well, I mean, there is at certain levels. Minimal. And look, there is a lot. I don't know. This number. It's if you're anti-bureaucracy with me, though. Join me in not being scared when I say the things that we need you to fix. What I'll say is this. The figure you come up with, 75%, is what I would call rectum-derived. In other words, you pulled it out of your ass. So I don't know where we're getting that number. But I will say this.
The federal government, the deep state that you're also paranoid about. Oh, the deep state exists. It's the bureaucracy. Of course it does. It is the bureaucracy. Right, and most of it is people processing forms and issuing passports and doing things that make the lives of citizens feel like they're living not in a third world country. And this is how a nation ends, not with a bang, but with a whimper. Really? This is how a nation ends with having my passport processed? So here's my litmus test. Yeah, that's how a nation...
So George Washington, Alexander Hamilton walk in the streets of this country today. Would they be proud or appalled of that bureaucracy?
I think they would be appalled because they never imagined that existed. The Department of Homeland Security is a monstrosity. It's a disaster. Total disaster. But there is also a need for an act. The CDC is a disaster. The FDA is a disaster. Absolutely. The what one? The FDA. The FDA. Totally. It's a colossal disaster. Of course. I've dealt with the FDA. I've gotten five medicines approved that I've worked on that are now approved.
Right. You know that one from the inside, right? We could have developed those at a tiny fraction of the cost. And you know what? Who likes the FDA? And you didn't because of government? Because of the FDA. 100%. Because of the frickin' drug administration. And the answer is that big pharma wants to keep it that way because that stops new upstarts from bringing competition to market. And so this is the
You know, this is the private public sector. It's not a Republican problem or a Democrat problem. It's crony capitalism in the guise of bureaucracy. But how the heck do you- Using it to stifle competition in the market. I couldn't agree more. But I mean, all the people with their snouts at the trough, the reason why nothing gets done, we tried to build high speed rail here in California. I mean- Lobbying.
It was seven times the cost of what it would cost to build it in France, which is not exactly unknown. Too high cost. To labor. Yes. Right? Issues. And so finally they just- What is France making us look bad? Even nuclear power plants? They just gave up. Same thing. They just gave up. Nuclear power plants in France, five to eight years, 20 years in this country. Because the money went to consultants.
Consult. Everybody needs so many consultants. Like, nobody could even fucking know how to do their own job. They have to have somebody consult. This is it. You're not on the same side of this, brother. We're definitely on that. But this is the heart of my camp. So when you say deep state, don't say it so, like, condescendingly. Well...
understand that this is actually the essence of the real threat to liberty as it plays itself out. But let's say you're 75%. Okay, so let's say you're 75%, which is a pie in the sky wish that'll never come true anyway. It's going to come true, I'll tell you. Not to that number. Let's say it's maybe you're off, maybe your numbers in your head are just off by a little bit. So let's say we get to 50%. Like we don't need half the government. That could be true.
That absolutely could be true. And I've said half by the first year. And so if we discover that's good enough, then great. But here's where I'm at, is that the U.S. president is elected to run the executive branch of the government. And what we have today is a system where the person who we elect to run the executive branch of the government
doesn't actually run the executive branch of the government. That's ridiculous. I mean, it's just the truth. How do you know? I mean, look at what they try to do. I mean, Trump says, I want to fire people. What do they tell him? You can't fire them because there's civil service protections. The law says you can't fire someone. Oh, I thought we were talking about Biden. Well, I'm saying in the last 50 years in this country, the people who we elect to run the government don't actually run the government.
That's just a fact. George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, if they walk around Washington, D.C. today, they say these are puppets. Well, who was running the government? A bureaucratic machine. The laws aren't made even in the halls of Congress. The person executing the law is not the person sitting in the White House. It is a managerial machine. And these are good, I'm not conspiratorial about the evil intentions. These are good people at this level of individuals. But the machine is really what's crushing the will of the people.
people. This is where I think we need a few more years on you. You have a good point, but then you're just so overstated. I'm not overstating it, Bill. Say it again. So the people who we elect to run the government, they're not the ones who actually run the government. That's such an overstatement. The laws are not made in Congress. They are made in Congress. They're made by the
affected by the bureaucratic state. - That's what it's supposed to be. That's what it's supposed to be. - Oh, come on. - So I'll tell you, so just get the details. You gotta get the details. - It's a ridiculous thing to say. - The things that the FDA does have nothing to do with the law that Congress has passed. The things that EPA does to the coal industry have nothing to do, or the fossil fuel industry, have nothing to do with laws that Congress has passed. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the reason we don't have a new nuclear power plant in this country in 30 years
has nothing to do with Congress stopping it. So if you tell the people of this country, we don't have new nuclear energy for 30 years, you'd say, oh, well, the people we elect, elect them out.
It doesn't matter who you elect in or out. The fact has been the same for 30 years regardless. Because the real laws are made by the administrative staff. Okay, but you must know, and I'm with you, that we need more nuclear energy. Yeah, and the reason we don't, it's not going to change because Congress passes a law. The reason we don't is because people are...
I think, look, I'm not going to say they're ignorant about this issue because, look, I've been on the fence about this one before. It's a complex issue. But I don't think they're paying too much attention to the idea that
Yes, until we get to real green energy being the major part of our You know where we get our energy from you're going to need nuclear. It's better than the other alternatives Yes, when I better than any other alternative I mean the problem is when it goes bad it goes very bad It goes like and the world bad not so far that bad, but it could so, you know the irony So don't fuck it up. Well, you know what? The irony is
So the NRC, the Nuclear Regulatory Commission that's stopping us from building nuclear power plants is in the name of safety. So in the United States right now, we have Gen 1 and Gen 2 reactors. We don't really have many Gen 3 and we have no Gen 4. The only country with a Gen 4 reactor is China. Gen 4 and Gen 3 are way safer than Gen 1 and Gen 2.
And so the irony is in the name of looking after the people and protecting them. We actually have neither helped on innovation nor have helped on safety. And the FDA, by the way, is the same story. And so, Bill, all I would say is if you agree with me on this, you've got to be willing to actually gut the monster. Yes, and I'm telling you, I am a great focus group for you because I am a guy. I'm on board with this.
who is sympathetic to a lot of the things. I appreciate that. Right. But then. So then let's roll this one forward. Even when you're on the two yard line, you fuck it up. Let's roll this one forward, Bill. Maybe right now, because we have no points on the board, maybe we just kick a field goal.
And what do I mean by that? What do I mean by that? It means you don't have to agree with 100 percent or close to 100 percent. Totally. In order to just say, that's the job of a U.S. president. No, that's true. But it's got to be more than four.
Okay. No, I'm kidding. No, I, again, this is serious. But I think it is more than four between you and I. That's my point. I am a good focus group for you because I am a gettable guy. 80% of this country is, by the way. You represent closer to the majority of the Democrat base than the people who are elected in office. And a lot of it. It comes down to the actual people.
A lot of us have to know that you're an actual patriot who believes in what America has always stood for, which is votes count. I do. We transfer power peacefully. We don't let a sore loser pretending to be some macho man cry. So much so. He cannot believe he lost the election. I'm going to give you one that you and I will agree with potentially here. I know you can't say it because you want to be his vice president. I do not want to be his vice president.
Bill, I already told you. Well, okay, but maybe you'll change. Honestly, the idea of working for somebody right now feels like a sharp poke in the eye. Like right now, that's the sensation I'm experiencing. I have not reported to somebody in over a decade. I know. And I just don't do well in that role. Can I just say something on a personal level? I got to tell you one thing. To help, again, I like you. I want to help you. I like you back, brother. I know, I know. And I appreciate you making time to come. I know, I appreciate it. And you are going to go a lot further.
You're not at your floor. We're just getting warmed up, I think. No, because first of all, you're going to appeal to young men. And young men tend right, right? I think that's the hardest people to get in the voting booth. They see a guy who looks like you. Again, not rapping. But look, you dress sharp. You look like you could be in a club.
What do they call this? Club Random we're at. Right, we're at Club Random. Exactly, we're at a club.
And they're going to see this guy who's young and he's fresh. And of course, they don't know anything, the kids. So like if you say get rid of the IRS, they're like, sure, I'm going to pay taxes one day. That's going to suck. Let's get rid of them. You know, and just stuff that like it just it's you're like a good version of Andrew Tate. You know, they're just going to like you and that's
And that, I think you could excite a group of people that we haven't seen. We want to bring young people along. Right. To care about this country. Well, yeah. I want to make patriotism cool again. For young people. Yes. I want to make patriotism in the concept. I think you can. Cool in this country. You won't be ashamed of the American flag. I hope this isn't. It's cool. I hope this isn't too personal, but I mean it in the best possible way. I think the fact that you are who you are, again, if we could just get rid of a little of the Trump stuff. Yeah.
And that you are a person of color is an advantage. I think it is the right moment. I think it's happening in the right party, a party that is very sort of, you know, they know that in the past, in the recent past, including sometimes the present, they are racist and they have been. I mean, Reagan started his campaign in Philadelphia, Mississippi, which was a undeniable signal
that he was okay with race. Here's my situation. But they're better than they were. And the fact that they like you, that they like you, and I think they're going to like you a lot more. I mean, they're just getting to know you. The people didn't know me like six months ago. Right. So here's the thing. I think they're better than they used to be, but there's still a lot of racism in that party. I think there's a lot of, I mean, what do you call racism when you say you want, you know, I mean, I'll give you a quote.
The remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination. That's racism too. That's Kendi. It's Kendi. You know it. You're all over it. Yes. Not down with that. Look, if you're like a psychologist and you've got a patient that comes in with anxiety, you don't shot them down by saying, don't be anxious, don't be anxious, don't be anxious. Right. They're going to have a bout of anxiety. I think where we are in this country with respect to racism...
I'll use an analogy based on you, you know, lighting that and watching that, you know, taper out is it's like the last burning embers of racism. That's where we are, actually. I'm serious. I'm just a visual person. All right. I'll vote for you. It's the last. You got me with that one. It really is. And so what I don't want to do is right as that's burning out, I don't want to come in and throw kerosene on it by saying, don't be racist. That's what we'd be doing. So we're almost at the promised land.
We may not be that close, but we are way... We're a hair's trigger away from a national revival. We can be. It's not going to happen automatically. You like my slogan, let's live in the year we're living in. Isn't that great? I'm with you on that. Let's live in the year. That's all I ask. You know what else I'm going to do in this election? I promised some people I'm going to meet them, so I've got to roll pretty soon. But this is too fun for me. But here's the thing I will say in this election.
If I'm the nominee and whoever the Democrat nominee is, Joe Biden or anybody else, I'll make a deal. The deal is shun super PAC money and I will do the same thing. And I'll make the same deal in the Republican primary. Right now, the Republican primary, a big part of the problem is it's a super PAC primary. I mean, super PAC puppets, one after the other. I'm not playing that game. I'm putting my own money directly into the campaign. I can't wait to see the debate with you and Christy.
And Trump. And we're going to, oh, well, that's not going to be next week. No, no. It could be in a couple months, though. I know, but you're in for sure. Oh, I'm in for sure. Because you're like number two or three. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And DeSantis. Oh, this is like must-see TV. It's going to be kind of fun, right? No, because these guys are going to know they're in with a guy who can talk and think on his feet. I mean, you're in. We're going to have fun. You know.
It's, yeah, look. But what I would say is across the board, you know, laws are complicated on this and Citizens United, this and that. But if we do a handshake deal and say none of us are going to show up at fundraisers with super PACs or anything else, we're just done playing that game. That's another thing that will unite this country. This used to be a left-wing slogan. I think the right is actually has a mood for this right now.
So there's there's there's these. But, you know, we tried this a million times. You know, let's get money via the law. Let's get what I'm saying is let's actually do it through actually our norms. Oh, in our practice, because the laws are complicated because the First Amendment and the court, et cetera. But this election, that's something I will hold my promise to the other candidates do in the GOP primary. Everybody just agrees as a handshake agreement. We're just going to shun super PACs.
And then I do the same thing in the general. So this is the stuff of uniting a country. So where are you off to? What is your next event? Now, you came from Iowa. I mean, you flew. I'm like all over. I've been in like six states in the last two hours. No, no, no, no. Seventy two hours. But but we're we got the debate next week. And it's my first debate. The Republican debate. That's next week. First one's next Wednesday. A week from today. Is Trump in? Trump is in, but he won't show up.
Or he's supposedly not going to show up. But everybody else is. DeSantis, myself, Pence, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, all that. Christie. Christie. Yeah, he's in too. So that'll be fun. You and he, that's going to be the debate. Because he's the one who talks like I do about Trump now. You know him? I've never met him in person. But Christie is a Trump attacker. And you're a Trump defender. That's going to be the debate.
We'll have a healthy dialogue. No, no. I mean, you know you're up against the champ there. As far as like a politician who can talk, he also can talk and think on his feet. I'm a first-timer. He's experienced. Let's get ready to roll, man. All right. It was good seeing you, as always. I'm glad that we can do this and agree on everything and we're still where we were. We love each other and we love this country. Exactly. And like that's what America's about. Okay.
I appreciate that, bro. Good luck out there. Are you going to a fundraiser now? We're going to a dinner. It's not formally a fundraiser. Yeah, but you'll take their money if they offer it, huh? Yeah, I'm just not going to be a circus monkey jumping for it. Boy, if I had your money, I'd throw mine away.