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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. You're comfortable? I am very comfortable. See, I didn't even let you get up all the way. Yeah, yeah, well, it's... It's how comfortable I want you to be. I'm kind of ungainly. In all honesty, like, I have noticed I've started grunting when I, like, tie my shoes and get up.
Because I've officially hit my late 50s. You know that, you do that, I do that kind of grandpa thing, that kind of like. Well, I'll get to that in a minute. You really don't have to be that way because I'm older than you and I'm not that way at all. You're not? No, fuck no. But you're married. Yeah, that's what it is. But no one ever says, you say ungainly. No one ever says I'm gamely.
I'm going to say that you're gainly and I'm ungainly. How's that? I don't even know what gainly is. I don't think, yeah. Ungainly, it must be the opposite of ungainly. Of gainly, yeah. But no one's ever gainly. Let's work that in, ladies and gentlemen, viewers. Let's work that in the vocabulary. Someone in spry, if they're fit. But how old are you? 57. What about liquor? No, I'm sober. Oh, then you're completely fucked. I had a bad dope trip.
in my 20s. I don't know if it was laced with something, but I was going through a really bad time and I decided to wake and bake on Christmas morning while living in an abandoned beer brewery in Brooklyn, like a squatter. And I had a super bad trip. I started shaking. I was sweating. My muscles were like contracting in my arms. My heart was racing. What year is this?
Ninety okay 91 timeout and then I we have not done yet, but it happened in the 90s Yeah, so it was a fluke, but I'm not done with my story. Sorry because then I saw the face of God and Then I swore to the face of God that I would never smoke dope again. What do you look like?
What's this face look like? It looked like, in all seriousness, it looked like a Mark Rothko painting. It looked like an abstract sunset over the Tahitian Ocean. That's funny because I always thought God would look like James Woods.
Because he's also a prick, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, God's a prick, and kind of the same way James Wood. The same way? But James Wood was brilliant. He had a time, he had a period of time when he was doing some of the best acting. Absolutely. Yeah. Almost always as a prick. Yes. So how much we can call that acting.
acting is under discussion. But yes, he absolutely will. You have zero fear of James Woods watching this podcast. I have zero fear of what James Woods can do to me. It's a power play. That's what I have. I get it. No, no. You know what? I would love if James Woods did this podcast, by the way. I have all stripes on this show. Did you hear a story about the 9-11 pilot?
practice thing from back in the day from 9-11. Who are we talking about? Jim Woods? Yeah. No, what do you mean his story? James Woods was on a plane to New York with the guys who flew into the Twin Towers before they flew into the Twin Towers and he saw them doing a practice run and he reported it
to like the FDA. - Right. - And he was telling the story around the time and he was like, these guys are like gonna hijack a plane. - Well see the problem is he reported it to the FDA. If he had reported it to the FAA, a lot more people would have lived through 9/11. - They were like, listen buddy, stop calling us. If you've got bad pork, call us. This is the wrong department. It's like, no, you gotta listen to me.
Yes. Now, there's a great plot for a movie. So are you saying that James Woods fabricated this story? No. Oh, so you think it's real? It's legit. It's absolutely legit. Yeah, I probably is too. Well, I mean, we do know that they...
were known to be people who were asking for instruction in how to take off, but no need for landing. Landing, they would sleep, take naps. A slight clue. Ahmed, wake up. We're going on landings now. And the name is Muhammad Khabloui. All right. So let's get back to God. So you saw God. I saw the face of God.
And you made this deal with him? I just swore to the face of God. That you wouldn't do this again. It was like a teen caper movie. It's like, please God, get me through this and I won't ever smoke pot again. Or I won't ever do drugs again. I was doing a lot of drugs at the time. Well, let me amend that. I was doing some drugs at the time, but too many for a 21-year-old. So...
Right. So what if you smoke pot you see so you if you smoke pot It's not that you would fear that you would have an episode like that again, right? What you fear you're saying is that you would anger God because you'd be a welter on the deal No, I think I feel like that's what I'm getting from it. I I know I know I know that's where you're going No, that is it. That's not that's not right. It wasn't Oh, I
Drugs and alcohol were not good for me. They did not make my life better at all. They made them profoundly worse. So as I kind of went along that journey, I was like, you know what? I don't need any, you know, a little caffeine, no other medications for me. Well, I can tell almost, or I would guess by looking at you that you don't drink because you may think you're ungainly, but you've hardly aged.
Your face does not look like you're generically middle-aged. You could definitely play someone in their 40s easily. I have a fat baby face. I don't have a chiseled James Wood face like you.
It's a Chuck face. It's an old James Woods face. Yeah, you have like a gnarly, like etched, like one of the- Now James Woods is in everything. You're like one of the Ents. You're like one of the tree people from Lord of the Rings. He's not a good looking man. So I don't- No, you're not pockmarked. No. You're not pock riddled. Oh, did we have to go there? You're not. I know, but now James Woods is like, you know, I was okay when you just said I was a prick like God, but now we have to go to, you know, that's not right. I gave him his props on Instagram.
Hey, you know what? Let me give you these props, James Woods. Even with that face of yours,
you're attractive to women. You know why? Because women are not like men, news flash. I mean, of course they appreciate good looks and sometimes they do fall for it. It certainly doesn't hurt. But they can fall for a guy like that because he's sexy. He may not be great looking, but to them, sexiness is deeper because they're deeper. And so you can be like Humphrey Bogart was also faced like two miles of bad road. Yeah. Spencer Tracy. Yeah.
Spencer Tracy wasn't bad looking. He just was mediocre looking. Okay. You know, but yes, they just appreciate a guy with a pair of balls. It's greater. It's better, of course, if they're good looking too. I think it's edge. They like edge. It's edge, right. And James Woods had it. You know, he was sexy to women. I mean, he's always like getting with someone who's way...
well, not in my world, but too young mostly for society. You know, like I think he was like 59 when he got with a friend of his, his daughter, who was like 20 or something. Oh my God. Where are we going? By the way, everyone under 45 is Googling James Woods right now because he's not...
He's like, he's relevant to us. Let's face it. Well, he's definitely not relevant to us, but we are fans of his work. And I hope you would agree with me. I don't know how indoctrinated you are. I hope not too much.
that we don't have to share politics to be friends with people. I agree 100%. Oh, good. 1,000%. Because I cannot stand the attitude of, if you don't agree with me, I unfriend you. Remember the whole thing about someone shook hands with George Bush Jr. at the US Open or something like that? Ellen. You shook hands with a war criminal? It was Ellen. Yeah. You don't want to acknowledge that. It was Ellen. It was Ellen.
Why is that something we want to avoid? It was Ellen. It wasn't her fault. It doesn't even matter who it was. The point is, it's like... You know who else is rather chummy with George Bush? I don't mean chummy like they... Hey, George, Michelle Obama. Obama, yeah. Both of your mamas. And you know who Ruth Bader Ginsburg was very close with? Scalia. Scalia. And... You're not going to stump me, Mayor. What? You're not going to stump me.
Did you call me Mayor? Did you say I'm Bill Mayer? Let me edit it to make it sound like I said Marr. Wow, first you're late and now you mispronounced my name. Wow. No, I still like you, but... You were great on Politically Incorrect. Thanks. And you were great on your show. That ended a while ago, though. Anyway, I have a show now. So... How do I get a show? By the way, I was...
I know you hear this like a zillion times a day, but I was like the biggest fan of The Office. Nice. Oh my God. I remember we have taped on Friday since the beginning with real time. Thursday, your show was on. And so Thursday was my really hard cram night. I would like work my tail off.
the show. This is the old DVR days. And it was like what I was like, it was the carrot at the end of my long work night. It's like, I am exhausted. I'm getting into bed. And I know I checked it 10 times. I know I DVR'd the office. And
And there's almost nothing as good as going to bed with an actual laugh, a laugh out loud. I feel like it's therapeutic. I'm just pulling that out of my ass. But if I can, I like to end my TV watching night with something that'll make me laugh. I think the word you use, therapeutic, is really interesting because I can't tell you how many times a day online and in person I hear from people
thank you for the office the laughter that it gave me that it gave my family oh yeah uh healed us during covid how yes and that's not you know when i signed up for the office it's like i want to buy a house bill mayor i want to buy a house i don't i i i uh you know i wasn't thinking about like
giving laughter as a therapeutic remedy and a balm and a salve to a hurting populace. But what an honor it was to be a part of something like that. No, I mean, I've had a lucky life, so I don't need like a...
Laughter because, you know, I worked 12 hours, you know, cutting the heads off chickens on a conveyor line or something. I've been spared that kind of life. But not everyone has. So I can see why people who love that show the way I did, it would mean even more. Because you really, but even for my wonderful, lucky life, you know,
I remember just all those Thursday nights getting into bed just bone tired from working on what I work on just mentally exhausted and That was like the the fact that it was on Thursday and of course back then we were a little more tied to when things were on Yeah, you know. Yeah, it just and you couldn't like binge it or anything. Yeah had to wait and
All those people, I mean, it was such a large cast, but they were all perfect. I mean, you got to play with such an A-team. I mean, obviously, you right at the top of it. I mean, you fucked that character in half from the first moment. And it was so specific, you know? It was just like...
I had this vague idea of Pennsylvania Dutch and you know, there's just the but and everything you hit on was like I never thought of it like that specifically but that makes sense for my vague idea of what these weirdos in this area. Yeah, not quite like riding the buggy.
Yeah, yeah. But adjacent. Right, exactly. Buggy adjacent. You were always adjacent, because obviously you're working in the office. You're not there, but you're still rooted in there. Yeah, yeah. That was like, it was so different than any, I mean, was that how it was written? You know, it's so, here's what's so great about it. They must have had that idea of a character. Well, everyone sings the praises of Greg Daniels, our showrunner, and I'm going to do it again, because...
The way he worked and the way he synthesized comedy ideas is like no one I worked with before or since. And I brought in, when I first met with him and the writers, I brought in a bunch of family photos and I have...
my relatives are farmers on both sides, Midwestern farmers on both sides of my family. They're also really white trashy. And so, you know, uncles and Camaros and stuff like that. And they were, and he was like, he's like, "Twight should have a, you know, Camaro or some, you know, some kind of hot, he saw the photo and he's like, and the farmer, he's like, "Farmers."
And he's like, and my grandparents used to farm beets in Poland. Beets, I remember that. And he was like, he'll be a beet farmer. And so it was always this synthesizing these ideas. And during my audition for Dwight, I literally said a line, which was, he just had me improvise like a talking head. So I was like, my name is Dwight Schrute. My father's name, Dwight Schrute. His father's name, Dwight Schrute. His father's name, Dwight Schrute.
Dwight shrewd Amish that was just an improv that I did just kind of like fucking around right and they're like that's great. Let's make him Amish So oh synthesizing there wasn't like formulated in a writers room like this would be funny It's kind of like but not exactly Amish again adjacent because yeah, that's what your thing is saying like I
Four generations back the name was slightly different just like we see all the time in America the way we evolve I mean my name ma h er When you go to Ireland you see that name a lot, but it's also me a g h er There's like a lot of variations of it with more letters so You know we evolve and
when that Dwight guy would do something in the modern office setting, that's what made it, to me, was the great comedy of it, was that you're in this modern urban, not urban, but suburban setting, but it's contemporary. And this guy, even though he's wearing the suit and the tie, there is something 19th century there. You just don't see that particular thing on sitcoms a lot. Yeah.
Yeah, so when he brings in a dead goose or half a dead deer. And when he fell for that, another awesome character, what was the blonde? Angela. Angela, who was, excuse me, but the nightmare girlfriend. And of course, if you ever described a woman like that, you'd be canceled in two seconds. But you could actually show her.
That's true. I hadn't thought of that. You have to pretend that all women everywhere are perfect ethereal creatures. I mean, they are. But of course, there are humans like everyone else, and there's some horrible ones. And that to me, and of course, we've all known when we're, especially when we're young and
were dating, like whoever likes us is the standard. When I was certainly in my 20s, it was like, if someone likes me and I find them pretty, that's good enough. And then some of them, I was tortured. There were girls who absolutely tortured me because they knew they could get away with it. Right. And that girl who tortures you, she's just never nice. Never nice to you. Yeah. But hot sex. It was clear that it was like...
insane chemistry. And they were so wonderfully odd and suited each other in their oddness. That's what I loved about it. She started as this uptight Christian bitch. That was the kind of cliche that she started. And then Angela grew and morphed and lots of different facets came out. And that's another great thing about The Office. There's a lot of sitcoms. Characters start a certain way and they end a certain way. And you don't learn anything more about them. You don't see other facets.
other nuances of the characters but the office characters i won't say they grew and matured but you just learned more about them and it made them more three-dimensional and i think that's added to the to the lasting value of the show but you know towards the end of the show you realize like oh dwight and angela there's no one else they could ever possibly be with and and how did it resolve i don't remember they get married they have kids
Right. And Dwight rules the office at the end. He gets the management gig. Yeah. Almost like Succession. Yeah. The opposite of Succession. Why opposite? Because Kendall didn't. Did you watch the last one? Yeah, it's Tom. Kendall didn't get it. Right. And why should Dwight? Because he's been number two for 10 seasons. Everyone was rooting for Dwight. Oh, yeah. I guess that's right. Do you know what I mean? I was rooting for Kendall, even though he killed the guy.
Yeah, I forgot he was number, right, with Michael Scott he was because he was, yeah. And then Andy came in above him and he was number two to Andy for the last couple years. Oh, that's right, yeah. And then there was, yeah, Robert California. He was always the number two. So the audience was chomping at the bit for Dwight to, and I do think like with Succession, that last episode, spoiler alert. Oh, everybody knows by now. Yeah.
I really felt the Britishness of the creators and directors of succession with that finale because it interesting statement why it got because it was so unrelentingly dark and hopeless and there had it been an American show runner there would have been something for us for those Roy kids for us to believe in instead
you've got roman smirking with a martini just like he started just uh you know pathetic kendall suicidal his light the rug has been ripped out from under him he's he has zero hope even though he's got three million billion dollars in the bank yeah and uh and shiv has sold her soul to her husband that doesn't love her and to the boss that backstabbed her there's
It's all hopelessness, unless you're a huge Tom fan. It's total hopelessness and despair. An American showrunner would have been like, Kendall and Roman get together and like, let's go buy Pierce after all. Yeah, and they walk off. It would have been something for you to go, oh, I want, you know what I mean? Because that was me. I was really big hearted about it. I was devastated. I was depressed for two days after that finale. Really? Yeah. But did you like it? Did you think it was good?
- No, I thought it was, I thought it was unreasonably hopeless. It didn't need to be that hopeless. Yes, it's a tragedy. Yes, they're fucked up. They're traumatized kids. They weren't loved. They have the worst mother and the worst father in the world.
And they have this most corrosive sibling rivalry you've ever seen. But at the same time, there's humanity there. And why not, as a storyteller, just give something to the audience that shows us that, you know, they'll survive. They'll get through this. They'll survive.
They will find a way to thrive because that's what we humans do. We have terrible adversities and setbacks, and then we find like a weed in a crack in the sidewalk, we find a way to keep going on. Wow, that's bleak. I mean, I hate to beat a dead horse, but maybe really try the pot again because it wasn't that bad. First of all, we don't know what's going to happen to them. Yes, we saw them at the end of a bad day.
Again, as you point out, they have billions of dollars and I don't think Kendall's gonna kill himself and he does good fucking riddance. You know, I have, why would I care? Why would I care about that prick? First of all, he is a murderer, so he probably should get the death penalty.
for what he did. And also just from the beginning, like I almost didn't watch the series because to your point about it, the very first episode was, they were almost so bad and so unattractive to me that I was like, why am I going to watch these people? And of course that quickly changed. But in the very first episode, the pilot, Roman,
writes a check for a million dollars on the ball field. Remember they're playing, they have like a, they take helicopters to this ball field. It's like a family tradition so they can play a softball game and they need to impress into the lineup so that there's nine on one side, I guess, this Mexican kid. And Roman offers him, writes a check for a million dollars if he will get a hit. Really? And then when the kid does and he rips up the check in front of him, I'm like,
This is just so fun. And I, to this day, I think, I'm not sure if that wasn't the one flaw they had in that show was that scene in the first episode, because I was so close to like never watching that show. I think there's a lot of people that, that didn't. And I had to convince a lot of people, like, just trust me. It was just so, so over that. So over the top. It broke that rule of that Hollywood rule of like, you've got to have likable characters. And no, what are you?
You're talking about that rule was broken a long time ago. Seinfeld broke that rule. I mean, the Sopranos. Sopranos. Yeah, there's lots of people that you don't... Yeah, but how about despicable characters? How's that? Like all kind of ultimately despicable characters. You know, I bet you I don't know all these series, but if you went through like a lot of the successful scripted shows in this century, Breaking Bad and stuff like that, I think you'd find a lot of despicable characters. Yeah.
what was the one in uh uh the the western that hbo did um westworld no no not west oh oh um uh deadwood deadwood yeah yeah which i thought was awesome i loved that deadwood yeah maybe they were maybe that's a good example of yeah they did have redeeming qualities they weren't evil and what yeah deadwood but um no i think we passed that boundary but
It was just like, well, there's a, and quickly I feel like I never saw anything like that after that in the show. I saw them acting like pricks, but it was sort of like in the flow of where their life was, they didn't go out of their way
to do something like that, to write a million dollar check to a kid. It's like, I get it, they're rich. I get it, they're assholes. This was just hitting me over the head with it. - I did this show that no one saw called Backstrom, and we did 13 episodes for Fox, where I was like this fucked up alcoholic
brilliant uh detective solving a crime every 51 minutes right um and uh uh you would have loved it um and we got canceled and the showrunner Hart Hanson he's like you know I should have written I should have written the puppy moment
And I was like, what, the puppy moment? He goes, yeah, because when you have like a despicable character, you know, mean-spirited. You were? I was kind of surly, crotchety, mean-spirited, kind of semi-racist. That was House. Yeah. I feel like America likes that. But he was like. Yeah, you got to have a little. He was like, he should have had the moment in the pilot where there's like a stray puppy and he pets the puppy or rescues the puppy. So the audience knows like, aww.
Because the thing with House was he was an asshole, but he was saving people's lives every single week. Right. So you can get away with a lot when you're saving people's little kids' lives. Right. Cute little kids. And also that's true to something in real life, which is doctors very often, very talented ones, do have a God complex. Yeah.
But on the other hand, sometimes they are doing God's work, that James Woods looking prick. Do you have a late night talk show, God Complex? What would that be? I don't even know what that means. Do I think I'm the God of, well, we're not really late night, but. No one wakes up and watches your show in the morning. I always watch it at night. I always watch it at night. It's a 10, it's a 1030 PM show.
Well, it's on at 10, but if you just get to the second half hour, what are you missing? But yeah, it is one of the last shows that does have a lot of appointment, great numbers for appointment television. That's awesome. Like seven here, and you can get it at seven here on the West and 10 in New York.
yeah that's almost completely gone I'm telling you we are one of the last the the because even like the late night shows people mostly watch clips of it and they and they you know the idea of even SNL like I watch clips on YouTube I don't the idea yeah I the idea of like watching that in real time yeah would be like having root canal in Berlin first of all
I mean, a lot of it, the show itself, I would want to slip fast forward through. I mean, they get a hold of something good once in a while and, you know, maybe more than once in a while, but it's a little, uh, wokey these days, which is the enemy of comedy. Um, sometimes they break out of it, but the players are always very talented. Well, I'm not trying to kiss your ass, but I will say that I really think your role, your show plays an important role because, um,
You said on a show recently, you were like, I haven't changed. Like my politics have stayed the same. That's true. But-
the left has skewed this way and the right has skewed this way and so it makes it appear that you're you've gone from like liberal to center to even inching towards center right and I love what you're doing in terms of bridging conversations uh yeah I don't really care people on the other side of the spectrum I appreciate that I I honestly don't care um what
People label me as because I never really was a person who fit into a label that when I first came out They called me a libertarian. I guess I had said that word once and anyway, it was like okay So I'm being called libertarian by people who probably don't even know what that is And I haven't really looked into it that much myself I mean as far as you know, I think it's because I was open about smoking pot and
you know, and being single. So he's a libertarian. They don't think of it much past shit like that. So yeah, there are parts of me that are libertarian. Yes, I always wish for smoking pot and leaving our, you know, private lives whatever way we want, as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else. If James Woods wants to go out with his friend's 20-year-old daughter and they're both happy with each other, who the fuck are you, you know? Yeah, yeah.
I remember when that girl came forward and said that she had lost her virginity to David Bowie after he died. Yeah, this woman. I don't remember. And she was like 16 at the time, but she described it in glowing terms. The last thing she was was sorry about it. First of all, she lost her virginity at the exact age when most kids do. I was 16. Yeah.
Okay. To a rock god. To who she said was gentle, loving, knowledgeable, was wearing a kimono. Really? That's better than some pimply-faced, you know, stock boy at the A&P? I'm describing myself at that age, of course. Yeah. No, I mean, just let us... So, you know, am I a libertarian? I'm whatever makes sense. I don't...
I can't even believe why it's so hard in this country to achieve liberal but not stupid woke, fiscally sane but not cruel. Is that really that fucking impossible? We are supported by Lumi. As I said when we started this podcast, there is so much to be worried about in the world.
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You know, I think part of the problem is, and it's something I address in my book. Oh. We don't have to talk about it. No, no. We're here. I'm so sorry. We're promoting things. I wasn't going to forget it, although. It's got lots of God stuff in it. You're going to hate this book, Bill. I'm so glad you did. Soul boom. I eat it for breakfast.
Why we need a spiritual revolution. Well, I am going to crack this. I'd actually be very interested to read this. Wow. You really spent some time on this. I did. I spent three years writing it. Like you filled up all these blank pages. Yeah. I wrote all of those words myself. Did you know before you started that it was going to be 272 pages? I had no idea. And yet it happened. It happened. I think that's the work of God. And when I say God, I mean James.
Okay, soul boom. Why do we need a spiritual book? So what kind of a book is this? This is not a novel. No, it's a book on spirituality. It's right up your alley. But spirituality is such a vague term. It is a vague term. So you could define it in a way that I would completely embrace.
Yeah, well, I have a whole section on why I love and respect atheists in here. But you are not one. I'm not an atheist. I'm a full-blown theist, but I love atheists. Is that because of that night with the pot and the God face? No, it really isn't. It was a long, many, many years of search, and it came from a lot of...
personal pain and struggle and turmoil where I really went on a kind of a spiritual quest in my twenties where I was trying to figure out why the fuck I was so unhappy. What's the most painful thing that ever happened to you? You sound like my therapist. You have a therapist? I've had a therapist for 20 years.
- Isn't that proof it's not working? - No, I'm doing great. - It's amazing. - Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Eat your words.
I am happy, content. Really? In a rich, fulfilling marriage. Okay. I'm doing incredible creative projects. I've got my life on track and a rich, deep perspective that he, for 50 minutes a week for 20 years at great expense, sorry, Hollywood.
He has helped me on this path. Okay. So it's absolutely worth the money. Okay, so first of all- I have a New York Times bestselling book. I have a- Right. I heard that book. Successful show on Peacock. Oh yeah. And- We're gonna plug that too. Do you need a cough drop? No. Do you need a Heimlich? Do you need a hand job? Well, keep talking. Okay.
No, I like where this is going. Free, right? So God. Wait, wait. Go back. I want to get to the peacock in a minute, so don't forget that. But the thing you were saying, it's first of all nice to hear you here, nice to hear someone, and especially you, say how much you actually appreciate and am enjoying your life because a lot of people are not happy like that. But my question to you is,
Are you saying to me that you wouldn't be in this happy state if it wasn't for the therapist? I don't know. I can't say that. But I do know that this guy I've been working with is really brilliant and has helped me actually...
A lot of my family members have seen him as well. And it's been a great guide. And also, in addition to therapy, and this is going to blow your mind, you're going to love this. I'm such a Hollywood elitist. He does hypnosis. I do hypnosis. Well, I think a lot of them do. Isn't that part of how they get into your brain? No, not really. Not really, yeah.
So I hear from what I read that therapists are not just for completely crazy people anymore. Is there any truth to that? Because when I hear therapists, I think, oh, you're nuts. So you have to go to this doctor. Well, I am nuts. And I've had a lot of struggles. And I've had a lot of...
You know, I've had a lot of really dark times. You asked me what the darkest time is. I'm not going to get really specific. What's the bad shit, man? Well, I'm not going to go completely there, but I will say that I had many sleepless nights, you know, with addiction issues and suicidal ideation and anxiety attacks that would render me
shaking on the floor and depressive episodes. I'm guessing this is all before The Office.
This was all before The Office. Right. I had some bad times during The Office, too. I bet you not as bad. Not as bad. Right. Because I feel like I went through the same thing, which was, yeah, when I was a failing loser, life sucked and I felt sucky about it. No. And then when I was doing better and success. That's not true. No? That's absolutely not true. Success came your way. I was not a failing loser. I was. I was a struggling actor.
Well, that's a failing loser. And then you became a giant... Wait a second. A struggling actor is not a failing loser. I was getting acting work. I was living in New York. I was a theater actor. Come on. Show business is a hit or miss league, babe. Hit or miss. You know what? If you... Make or miss. I'm sorry. That's the term the NBA uses. It's a make or miss league, show business. If you are... You want to call it working or starting or...
If you're not doing well, if you're not riding high, you're riding low. There's no middle in show business. What about being an artist? Because that's how I viewed myself. I was a theater artist. I went to theater school, and I was a theater artist, and I was making plays about the human condition. Yeah, but you really wanted to be on a hit show. I didn't. I swear I didn't. Eventually, I was like, fuck, I'd love to pay off these student loans.
I better get some TV gigs. Of course, I didn't have aspirations for stardom at all. I've looked this weird ungainly. But that's why you're happy is because your life, you chose a look. It's not, it's not circumstantial, dude. Who would know better? Me or you? Um, I'll let the audience decide. Put it in your YouTube comments. Who would know better about you? Come on, me or you? Uh, okay. But I,
I just think maybe you're not- When I was in the office, I spent several years really mostly unhappy because it wasn't enough. Enough what? And this is what I'm looking at now and I'm realizing now, like I'm on a hit show
Emmy nominated every year, making lots of money with working with like Steve Carell and Jenna Fisher and John Krasinski and these amazing writers and incredible directors like Paul Feig. I'm on one of the great TV shows. People love it. Right.
All-time classic. And I wasn't enjoying it. I was thinking about why am I not a movie star? Why am I not the next Jack Black or the next Will Ferrell? And how come I can't have a movie career? Why don't I have this development deal? That's so honest. And why don't... That's exact... That's so honest. And that's so what everybody to a degree in show business is. Yeah. Everybody who's not at the absolute tippity-toppity-top...
of that tall ladder called stardom is like, yes. And you're like, wow, you're just, you're a terrific actor and you're doing very well. You're not Brad Pitt? Okay, they was only gonna make one of him, but that's very much, and you know, speaking of succession, I always thought Logan Roy was a great example of the exact person you don't wanna be, the person who has so much,
and yet they are constantly in a terrible mood and angry about, are we going to be circling for another hour? Life is going 99% right and they obsess on the 1% that they can't control and they can't have. There's a lot of ways out of an emotional situation like that.
You can go to some therapeutic tools. You can look to positive psychology. You might say just common sense, enjoy what you have. That might be your take.
For me, there are some spiritual lessons from like, let's say Buddhism around realizing that the Buddha said that life is suffering and the reason that we suffer is we have such attachment to outcomes and to things that we're clutching, that we're grasping. And that if we can release our clutching and our grasping and our attachment, then we can release a lot of the misery of being alive. And when I was on the office, I was clutching and grasping at things
Okay, I was making hundreds of thousands. I wanted millions and I was a TV star, but I wanted to be a movie star. It was never enough. And humans have lived for hundreds of thousands of years
And never enough has helped us as a species. Yes, it has. And we've survived because of it. But in the modern world, when we've got our Instacart and our Grubhubs and our stocked bars, we're fine. And this never enough kind of impulse is ripping us apart. It's one of the things ripping us apart.
So this is part of what Soul Boom is about, is some spiritual tools to help us find greater wholeness and well-being. Yeah, I get that side of it. There's also the other side of it, which is Buddhism, first of all, was...
started at a time when life was very painful. So the philosophy of, if I just shut out how I feel about things, then I won't experience pain if I don't attach to anything, that made sense when life was shitty and you were wiping your ass with bark. But
It's kind of antiquated now because, you know, we did get to this place where we can have really cushy lives. Even middle class people, only the very poor really live in a kind of state. Even what they used to call extreme, I guess they still call it extreme poverty. But just in this century, we greatly reduced extreme poverty. You know, people live on like a dollar a day. Sure. People who are shitting in the street. Yeah. I mean, I'm not talking about L.A. I mean like places. Yeah.
Child deaths during childbirth. They've made great strides. Starvation, poverty. Just a lot of the world lives what to somebody who was alive even 100 years ago would look like an incredibly cushy life with incredible conveniences. And as soon as we take them in, we take them for granted. But Thoreau says the massive men live lives of quiet desperation. And I think that's true because I think that...
Whether it's a middle-class life and you're working a job and you're making 60, 70 grand a year and you've got Domino's pizza on the table. Like how many people living that life are truly like satisfied and content? Maybe some are, I'm sure some are. And how many people in these Hollywood Hills that surround you, I won't give your address,
Oh, I want to give it right now. I want it so that they beep it out. I want to do it so bad, but I'm not going to. Come on. Do the trifecta. Come late, mispronounce my name, and give my address. I was on time. Hit the hat trick, baby. I was on time, 535. I was five minutes late. I'm just kidding. Oh, my God. I'm going to kick your ass.
No. I could kick your ass. Just admit it. I'm beefier. You are? You're willowy. You might be gamely, but you're also willowy. It's funny. Chuck Liddell is the guest after you today. Okay. So, I mean, I was thinking before I came over here, well, if there's one guy I don't want to get in a fight with, and it turned out to be you. And it's me.
So of the people living here in the Hollywood Hills and the people that you know, how many people live lives of
Grace and contentment with their lot. Okay, but where did you read that you're promised grace and contentment and pure happiness in life? That's not what life is. Life is a game, and if you win it, you're probably in a minority. And even if you do win it, you don't win it 12 to 1. You win it 7 to 5. I see why you love the ending of Succession so much. You are like, life is a shit and then you die kind of thing.
No, life is not... I'm saying life is good. And even people who, I'm telling you, 100 years ago...
People did not have lives as easy and good as we have them. We forget that. And yet people are more unhappy than they've ever been. How the fuck do you know? Because you can look at suicide rates for Gen Z people. They've tripled in the last 20 years. That's true. Yeah. The mental health crisis is out of control right now. That's true. But now we're talking about a different subject. We're talking about the advent of...
of social media and smartphones, which is only about 12, 15 years old. I don't know that 100% of this mental health. Oh, that is all where that's at. I think there's a big percentage, but could it be 30, 40%? But it's, I mean, of course it's tied in with the materialism because what are you, you know, what is Kylie Jenner selling when she's- Well, but climate anxiety and political division and disunity and-
They pretend they do. They don't give a shit about the climate. They want to be on Kylie Jenner's private plane. Hold on a second. They want to own that plane. They do not give a shit about- Bill, when you have a podcast, you need to ask your guests some questions and let them talk every once in a fucking while. You've talked quite a bit, and this is not a kind of a podcast where I ask anybody questions.
I don't, is that how you conduct your personal relationship? Who said that life was where you go on a podcast and they ask you questions? Yeah, that's why. Life is going on a podcast and you gotta fight to get a word in edgewise. You don't have to fight. You haven't fought all night. You've had plenty of time to talk and you have plenty of time now to talk. But this podcast is not like those other podcasts, which is why it's doing better. It is doing pretty good. Because it's actually interesting and it's actually what I would really be doing with you.
who I don't know. I love it. My son woke up one morning. I'm not kidding. He was 18 years old. I came in to the kitchen and he was really distraught. His head was in his hands. I was like, Walter, what's going on? And this is an absolutely true story. He goes, I just can't fucking believe it. And I was like, what? He goes,
The Biden administration approved this pipeline in Alaska. Like they just signed a green new deal a few months earlier and now they've okayed this gas pipeline and no one cares about it. And it's not even in the news. Like, don't they even care about my generation? He was distraught. He was really seriously upset about it. He's the son of you. He's a kid who lives in LA. He's in the,
this kind of world, what the middle of the country would call the elitist coastal types. So I understand. I don't think he's wrong. I think it's great that there are kids like that, and there are kids like that. It's probably 15%, 20% of the kids. It's not most of the kids in the country. And trust me,
I bet you if he was, give him a few years, he might be the kind of person who actually would fly on a private jet or would love to own one. Well, to calm him down. Have you ever flown on a private jet? Yes, I took him in my Tesla down to get a latte and get his chakras balanced. And he felt so much better afterwards. And yeah, I've flown on a private jet a handful of times. I do it every weekend. Hey.
Got no judgment judgment. I did a piece on it this year on the show I was saying everybody who in Hollywood who pretends to be an environmentalist and I put myself in that category I said I can stand
Being called a bad environmentalist. I can't stand being called a hypocrite and everybody All these environment. I had pictures of all of them. They all Leonardo DiCaprio I mean everybody there we all love the environment But no one can resist a private jet and until they out out while all jets It's it doesn't really matter
Or they just make it prohibitively expensive with taxation that goes toward, I don't know, carbon, decreasing carbon emissions and some other. They could do that. Yeah. They could do that. Well, the problem is, is that has been weaponized by the political right so much where if you, like if I send out a tweet about climate change, it'll be like, you're a Hollywood celebrity and Leonardo DiCaprio takes his private jet everywhere. So shut the fuck up. It's like, okay.
Leonardo DiCaprio takes a private jet everywhere. That may or may not be a good thing. Maybe he shouldn't do that. I don't know if he's doing other things to help the environment, to counterbalance that. What could you possibly do to counterbalance that? You could buy a million acres of rainforest and not let it get cut down in the Amazon. You could do both.
That's what I'm saying. Could you do both? That's what a counterbalance is. But the point is, is that people look at him and that hypocrisy and they're like, so why should I do anything? Why should anyone do anything? Leonardo DiCaprio, it's like, he may be on a jet, but you know what? Heat trapping gases going into the atmosphere are fucking us and they're fucking up our grandkids. And that doesn't change just because Leo's in a jet.
Why can't we buy the Amazon? Why can't all the people who have- I think it's a great idea. I do too. No one's ever said that? Can you? We could start that. I'd love to. Let's hear from you on YouTube. That is something I would actually, I mean, I've given- Hey, Brazil, we will give you a-
$300 billion will pay off your entire debt and give us half the Amazon and you can't cut it down for the good of the planet. Yeah, I always think if you throw money at a problem, it goes away. I know that sounds cynical and succession-y, but it's also true. I mean, I'm telling you. If you want a parking spot and you have $100, you can get a really good one. I mean, anywhere. All right. I'm not saying you should do it. I'm just saying...
It's a bigger version of that. Okay. But I don't know why anybody hasn't thought of that before. I know that there are people in this country like Ted Turner used to own or probably still does, his estate does,
Ted's gone, right? Yes. I think he's 107. I really feel like we really need an app that's like dead or not dead because there's so many people that I have no idea. Ernest Borgnine. I don't know if he's alive or dead. Oh, I think Ernest has passed. I think Ernest is gone. But Mikhail's Navy, right?
I think so. Yeah. I definitely know. Yeah. Marty is what I'm thinking. Marty. Marty. I was before my time, but I know. Classic. There's a lot of environmentalists and rich people that have bought up big acreage, but I feel like that is something. I mean, I twice I gave a million dollars to a cause, you know, to Obama in 2012 to establish that.
Because they had just passed Citizens United in 2010, and so the limits had been lifted on how much you could give, and there was all these million-dollar-and-up donations that the Republicans were gathering, and I thought, oh, God.
We have to have this man re-elected, not just because he was the best candidate at the time, but because it was very important, I thought, that the first black president get a second term. Because if it were just one, people would talk.
Let's just say that. Oh, he didn't really, he was a one-termer. That's like a real albatross hung on. Yeah, it's like being a one-hit wonder as a rock band. That's hysterical, but it kind of is. It is. It really is. It is the same stigma. I mean, Jimmy Carter, who I thought,
was one of our best, most underrated president. Yeah. And boy, talk about a guy who knows how to hang in there. I mean, I don't know when this is airing. He's still going. That's the app, Dead, Not Dead. He's not dead, but he's been in hospice for like a month. I mean, he got brain cancer at 94 and beat it.
This guy, and this is the guy who can't wait to meet Jesus. Yeah. And then, like, he's been in the hospice. Like, we were, I mean, they have his obituary on speed dial at the New York Times. I mean, they just kind of press send. But this guy's like... I think the answer is peanuts.
Peanuts. Longevity. The kids are going to have to Google it. Yeah, but remember there was that whole October surprise with the Reagan administration and Iran-Contra and not an Iran-Contra, but
Paying the Iranians to not relieve the hop Release the hostage before the election right thing that was one of the first big like behind-the-scenes election scandals Most people don't still don't know that that happened and that really cost Carter of the election I mean he might have lost anyway, but it sealed his fate for the kids who believe that everything that didn't happen before they were born didn't happen and
um what happened was january 20th my birthday my birthday you're january 20th get out of town dad
January 20th. January 20th. How fucking funny is that? That we would come to this moment. Look at this. Like not, you know. It's so tender. I thought it went better in rehearsal. January 20th. January 20th. Yeah. It's a little club. Along with Federico Fellini. Howard Hughes. Okay, David Lynch, I think. George Burns. Okay, nice.
it's a good day kelly ann conway no yes she's got to be in our club okay so anyway our birthday yeah january 20th 1980 reagan is being elected as being inaugurated and the iranians who had had the hostages for over a year
them like right at the moment of the, you know, like three days later. Yeah. No, no. Like this, that day or inauguration day. Yeah. Like as soon as they, that's like how much they hated Carter. And we were so naive at the time that people just, most people thought it was just coincidence or they thought it was Reagan's great brave leadership that kind of forced them out. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That was certainly the right wing, um,
apology for that moment was, oh yes, well, they were so afraid of just his shadow. Yeah. They saw his shadow and they just said, we give up. Yeah. Yeah. And he looked a lot like James Woods at that time. Well, anyway. Less pockmarked. Anyway, I found this to be very fascinating, I must say. I appreciate you rolling with all the
ornery-isms that I have as a host. Are you winding this up? I have to because there's another guest here. You double booked me? I didn't. We always knew this. We tape these, we tape, you know, like all TV shows do like this because not that this is a TV show. Did you get like a flashing light that said second guest is here or something like that? No, no, no. There's a clock right there.
oh look at that right so wow i didn't even see it an hour which is what um um but bill listen we may not see eye to eye at all and on anything no we do i think politically we do i think we see eye to eye a lot yeah yeah but i so i'm really not kissing your ass but i just honor what you do and you've been an inspiration uh
You've made me cachortal. And I think you're just engaged in some of the most valuable conversations going on in our current Western civilization. Well, I truly appreciate you saying that. And I truly mean it. I could tell. And coming from you, it means a lot. And one reason I wanted to do this podcast or a podcast is because as much as I do love doing that, there just is a whole other way
That you can talk to somebody. And it's not politically driven, although it drifts there sometimes. But the whole point of it is that it drifts. And I'm only saying this because you were joking before. And I am sorry if I cut you off. No, please. Give me a break. I'm just giving you shit. You can take it. I know, absolutely. And you were joking about, like, ask a question. And it's like, that's what I do on my real show.
And real time is my real job and my real show and my real love. But I also like sitting around bullshitting with people, which is what I do like any Wednesday night anyway. Sure. The fact that I can do it with the likes of you is just fantastic because like, you know, this, it's just different. And just like it, I mean, my whole life,
career has been trying to get the realest type of conversation that I have in my real life on film so that other people can see it. And I feel like I approximated it as well as you can under the conditions of a HBO talk show with senators and governors. But it's not like this. This is like
To me, there's really no difference if there had been no cameras rolling. I would have said the exact same thing, and I think you would have too. I was a little more self-conscious because there's cameras rolling, and I'm like, I'm on Bill Maher's show, and when is he going to jump me ideologically? But...
I agree. I agree 100%. And I love that you didn't even ask. And you don't need to ask about my new show on Peacock streaming service called Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss. I have plugs too. See, I told you. Streaming now on Peacock where I travel the world looking for happiness because I, unlike Bill, believe that happiness, well-being, satisfaction, and wholeness is possible and...
and achievable and is something we can strive for. Peacock, you're not subscribing.
Turn that around, America. Subscribe to the old Peacock. Watch Office reruns, which old Bill here loves. And check out the new Rainn Wilson streaming show. Bill, what do you got? You're playing, oh, Chuckles Comedy Casino in Bismarck, North Carolina on April 22nd. With Fluffy is opening.
What do you got? What do you got? Okay. But I did warn you I was going to forget. I know. I know. You did a great job of it. The producers warned me. It's like, Bill is going to forget to plug. Yeah. Whatever you got, you've got to do it yourself. But the Peacock show is on already? Yes, now. It's just out for a week and a half. Yeah. Okay. The Geography of Bliss. So you're going around the world. Yeah. Like, where's a place that's blissful?
Iceland kinda. Oh, yeah, that is the reputation. Yeah, for sure. Of course. It has a really high suicide rate and like one of the largest percentages of people on antidepressants So you gotta weigh it but there's a lot of happiness and bliss to be found there. It's fucking cold It is well, I will not be in Iceland all of August 19 to be at the ovens auditorium in Charlotte, North Carolina
Oh, I love Charlotte. August 20th at the Township Auditorium in Columbia, South Carolina. I love the way they put the Carolinas together on these swings. Why isn't there one Carolina? Do we really need more than a South? Actually, you could make the case for the Carolinas. Why are there two Dakotas? There should not be two Dakotas. Totally. I'm not sure there should be one. Also, why Delaware? Give me a break. Yes. Who the hell? Right. Maryland and Delaware. Just make it Melaware. All right. Thank you. I got to go.
Bye, Bill. Thanks. Are we going? Are we hugging? What's happening? I don't know what's happening. I'm going to get the fuck out of you. Thanks for having me. This was fun, man. Thanks for being had. You're awesome. You can't say it's not real. It is real time. No, that's the other one.