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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Yeah, even when I don't agree with you, I'm glad you're out there because the dearth we have in this country, I feel rhetorically, is from people, forget either side of it, just who's going to say what they really think as opposed to what they are supposed to think or
what they're indoctrinated to think. I think most of them don't even know what they really think. We just live in an age of indoctrination on both sides. Would you agree with that? I would, actually. I think that people are so afraid of being counseled, and I understand why.
where that fear comes from also. Not only do you have to say what you're supposed to say, but you have to say it the way you're supposed to say it today as opposed to how we might have said it if you're older and we said the same thing, but we said it differently. You have to be happy about it. You have to be happy about...
Men on the women's swimming team you can't be neutral anything you can't just be curious You can't just be open and you have to be thrilled. This is going on and it's a great thing. Yeah, it's true It's true. What are you drinking Arnold Palmer without alcohol? That's what I drink when I go out to a restaurant because I don't want to drink but here I can have my soda that doesn't have bad sweeteners in it but
Are you on the campaign trail? I am. I am on the campaign trail. That must be grueling. It is grueling. It is very grueling. It's a mix of awful emotional roller coaster and really exhilarating at the same time.
What's the exhilarating part? Talking to people. You know, the American people are not the problem. The sclerotic political and media systems that suppress and thwart the will of the people is the problem. But when you actually just are out there talking to people, people would ask me, what was your experience last time? And it's even more so this time that the system, the political media industrial complex, is even more complex.
Corrupt than I feared and the people are even more wonderful than I hoped. I don't agree and again I'm glad you're here because we could be honest about this and say we appreciate each other for saying what we think our truth is but And I sort of understand why as a politician even if you didn't really believe that you have to say that you can't I don't I don't say things you have to say I'm not running. Okay, so you think we have different experiences. That's all I'm just saying
I don't think you can ever separate the people from this government that's swarting the will. Not in a country like this. Yes, of course, behind the Iron Curtain, the will of the people was not what the East German government wanted.
That's certainly not the case. We I think our government is a reflection of the people I think you let the people off the hook a little too easily the reason we have the people we have it's it's you know They didn't get there by answering a want ad well they got there because people voted for them and their policies and and Politicians yes tell people bullshit, but you know the main reason they tell them bullshit because if they tell them the truth about
They'll throw them out of the race. Okay, so what you need is somebody who doesn't mind being thrown out of the race. Somebody's got to tell the truth. And when you just said you think I let the people off the hook too much, and the way I see it, you let the government off the hook too much. Because if you look at poll after poll, for instance, the majority of Americans, both Democrats and Republicans, want universal health care. If you look at the polls, the majority of Americans, including Democrats and Republicans, want tuition-free college and tech school.
If you look at the polls, the majority of them... Of course they want free things. I want ice cream, too. No, those things aren't free. They are how your own tax dollars are used. But, Mary Ann, what easier statement could you ever make in politics than people want... Yeah, they want. That's not where the rubber meets the road. The rubber meets the... Yes, they want free health care. What kind... What are they willing to sacrifice for it? Are they willing to... I mean, why don't we have good health care in this country? It's because they never really learned to tame the corporations.
Exactly, my point. Okay, but who lets that happen? The government, the legislators who are doing more to serve the profit-making goals of their corporate sponsors. Who are elected by the people? No, oh, Bill, come on. Somebody sends Ted Cruz to Washington. Well, that's Texas, my home state, so I can say it. So, yeah, but the obfuscation bill and the suppression and the thwarting, and I know that. I'm running for office. I'm in the belly of that.
beast right now. And I know how they manipulate narratives. Absolutely the left as well. You know, it seems to me that if you have any two Americans, you were talking about the indoctrination before. If you talk about any two Americans just having a conversation, we tend to kind of get down and get real and get authentic as much. Like us now.
Yeah, you and I would do that. We're doing it. Right. Okay, but hold on. And that's one of the values of your programming always for years now. But hold on a moment. My point is that when it comes to our collective public political dialogue, we have been trained to go stupid. We've been trained to do exactly what you said. When it comes to our public conversation, we're indoctrinated and we think in terms of slogans. And you see it on the left as well as the right. You see it right now with the Democratic Party. This codependency.
relationship with the Democratic, with the DNC. They say Biden is the one. Can we have some independent thought here? Can we have some, maybe some exposure to other candidates? But I think that what I find in my experience is that people hear that and are kind of yearning for a more meaningful public conversation. But there's a lot of obstruction to it. And the media chops the wood and carries the water for the political elite, the mainstream media. Absolutely. Yeah.
All enabled by the people. All enabled by those corporations which are giving the money to the government. Corporations are people. Oh, did you just say corporations are people? That's Mitt Romney. No, that's not in the legal sense. I mean corporations are made up of people and people benefit from corporations and apparently
Apparently Americans are not that up in arms about corporations. Now, I agree. I think it's starting to happen. Corporations do have a stranglehold on this country. I've always said it. And on our government. Socialism is, I think it should always have been called capitalism plus.
Do I think we should get rid of capitalism? Not at all. But there is some need for socialism because there are some things that should not be left to the private sector. Exactly. Health care being one of them. Thank you. Tuition-free college, child care, paid family leave, guaranteed housing, guaranteed sick pay. Well, no one has this much money, Mary.
And, you know, it's so easy. It's the same amount of money. When you were talking about the private sector does some things and the public sector should be. That's what you have in the hybrid economies of Scandinavia. I'm talking about things like the news media, which would cost nothing if...
If that that used to be a lost leader in other words, they didn't expect to make a profit from it So it wasn't about getting eyeballs So the nightly news didn't have two minutes of real news and then a fucking bear in a hot tub That's the point though. It's all become corporate conglomerates. A lot of that came from the Telecommunications Act in 1996 It's a bunch of media companies making rather than educative. But here are the things I think is
that got eaten by capitalism that shouldn't have. Prisons. Correct. News media. Correct. Healthcare. Correct. And college, higher education. No. The message we send to people about college is wrong. The message should not be everyone should go to college. College is fucking bullshit, most of it. The message should be we need far less college and most people don't need college to do whatever job they're doing
But you're sitting here talking about how people are not thinking deeply enough. It's a scam, college. Well, it has become in many ways. College is a huge scam. Higher education, they sell you this ticket because without this ticket, this diploma that says you went to college, some four-year daycare center...
you can't get the kind of jobs that pay well. I mean, we know the statistics of people who, what are the salaries of people who don't go to college versus go to college? It's night and day. You need that golden ticket so they can sell it. That's why...
Of all the things that have been suffering from inflation in the last, like, 20 years, college the most. It's gone up like 600%. Well, and you have the college loan debt because these people were told they would close the pay gap. That's part of the scam. That is part of the scam. But there's another value to education, which is much more important.
And that is the expansion of our thoughts, the expansion of our critical thought processes. They're doing the exact opposite on campus. The expansion of your thoughts. In many cases, they are. All they do on campus is throw people off of it for having thoughts that don't conform to the one true opinion. I could list 50 professors I've read about who were fired or thrown off just for trying to teach students
Nothing outrageous, just mentioning things. Yeah, I agree with that. And the kids, the way these kids have been raised, the ones who go to those elite colleges...
where we've all seen that video from Yale. Remember when the girl was going batshit on the professor because his wife had written a little memo saying, maybe we shouldn't be such fuss budgets about the Halloween costumes this year. And this kid is just screaming at this professor. And I thought, okay, this is where it all went downhill for this guy. I agree. I was asked to teach, I won't even say what the institution was. I said, well, let me go and...
give a couple of classes or something and I'll see. And I felt so judged by the students. Instead of the teacher grading the papers, I felt that the students were grading me the whole time. You shouldn't talk about that. I don't like the way you talked about that. I was like, well, yeah, there are some problems. And that's you. That's a very liberal, enlightened woman. About a book I had written, so I kind of knew what I was talking about. Yeah.
I mean, let's just pause there for a moment to think what that means. That you...
Yeah, but that doesn't mean we should get rid of all colleges. It just means there needs to be a transformation there. But we also can't glide over the fact that that is the head of the snake. That is where the insanity that winds up downstream in your world, in the political world, and then becomes issues like about transgender issues.
and racial stuff and what's going on in school boards where people do not like what their kids are being taught in schools. That, it begins at the university level. Well, the people who are complaining about what their kids are being taught in school in general are not the ones who went to those colleges.
Correct. It's the people who are teaching their kids who went to those colleges or are fans of that kind of thought. And I think a lot of teachers these days are kind of like semi-activists and they think they can reorder human society and the easiest way to do it. Bill, you're so cool most of the time and then you become this curmudgeon almost like right-wing Samuel. What is that? Excuse me.
Excuse me, that's an ad hominem argument. Should we stick to the facts and the issues or should I talk about you on a personal level? Well, I didn't mean to be like personally insulting. Yeah, but I get that.
Sometimes it's like well, I can't really argue with this on the facts. So I'm gonna say oh you're a mean old man You're saying get off my lawn That's not what I am and let's just stick to what's okay reality Okay, so what let's go to the reality of there's not indoctrination going on in schools Not all schools, but kids are not about little I'm talking about all levels. Oh
All levels, because I've seen the videos. So I know it's not secondhand information I'm being fed by any media source. It's actual videos teachers themselves will make and put up on TikTok, and they'll tell you right away what they're telling their kids. Yeah, but what about the parents who are complaining about things, kids being taught history, kids being taught about the history of race in America, banning books? That's far more concerning to me. Well, they're banning books from both sides.
No, what what you say they're banning books on both sides. Where is there a left-wing banning of books? What about my husband? And I give me an example. Oh, they try to do it here in California. I think they tried to Get rid of to kill a mockingbird. No, no, no, that's not from the left. Yeah, it is Yeah, no, it's happened. You're right. It's more from the right but again Some of the books that they're being taught. I mean I saw a very interesting video of a guy He was at a school board meeting
And he was reading from the book that the little kids, little kids these are, are being taught from. And it got very graphic. And so parents in the room in the school board start to say, please, please, it's too much. We're at a school board meeting. And he said, okay, it's okay for me to, for you to read this to your children, but I can't read it here among the adults? Yeah. Now,
Excuse me if I told that story before, but it bears repeating. I mean, it's not a story. I saw it. Again, one reason I like to watch things like that is because, okay, now I'm getting stuff firsthand. I'm not getting a New York Times report
of what happened at the school board meeting. I'm seeing it. Well, I think you're right that there's this fringe element on both left and right. There's no doubt about that. And Eisenhower famously said that the American mind at its best is both liberal and conservative. I mean, there are high-minded conservative values and high-minded liberal values, and we all need to recognize that and listen to other people rather than judge so quickly. But given your experience that you just relayed to me on...
You don't want to say the college, but I'm sure we can look it up. Oh, yeah. It was Union Theological Seminary. Okay. All right. So a seminary. Even the kids at the seminary are woke. Oh, my God. This is worth it. Yeah, it was actually. That is fucking amazing. Okay. So given that...
situation just anecdotally you don't feel like there is a problem in the educational system in this country that it's too much indoctrination too little actually learning anything I mean how about the fact I know we should teach history
plainly and for real. And by the way, when I was, even back when I was in school, they did teach us about slavery. They did teach us it was wrong. We didn't dwell on it like they do now, but yes. And we should have been teaching more about that period and more about that and how bad it was. Yes. Okay.
But now I think we've gone to a level where that's only what they teach is kind of areas where they want people to have a political view on something. And if you test the kids on actual history, like basic history, they have no clue because they don't teach history. They don't teach anything. There are some people in this country who only want to talk about what America did right and have no listening for history.
places we got it wrong. And wrong. And there are other people who only want to talk about what we did wrong and have no recognition of where we got it right. And I think that's really missing the point. Because if you really look at the facts, we are a glorious trajectory of both and. Of course. And that's what I think every generation needs to understand in order... That's the mature way to look at it. It's kind of like learning about your family history. You know, where did my family get it right? I want to stand on the shoulders of those who got it right and even do it better. And where...
Did I inherit some things that I want to stop right here so that I don't pass it on to my kids? To me, that's the value of learning history and definitely the value of learning American history and history
I know when I ran last time, I don't know what the statistics are now. When I ran last time, 11 states didn't even require half a year of American history, civics, or government. Now, if a child is not taught about the Bill of Rights in those younger years, how do they know to be honest?
horrified when it's under an assault and the only thing people are telling them about is the Second Amendment. So yeah, we have to pass these things on generation to generation or people don't even know what they should be protecting, much less expanding. They don't know to be horrified when you have something like the Supreme Court actually diminishing our rights rather than expanding them.
Yeah, or a more blatant example would be Trump trampling on norms. We heard that so much when he was president, and he did, you know. And then he went right to breaking laws and stuff. But, you know...
Certainly, if you don't know what the norm is, then how are you going to know that he's breaking it? Then it doesn't become alarming to you what he's... That's right. You don't see what's the big deal that he did that. Because if that person never learned in school, once again, the meaning, the purpose of education. I remember there was a story when he first became president and his administration, someone came in and they were...
They were telling him the basics, I guess, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the preamble, the Bill of Rights. And he was like a little boy who went. Right, I know. Oh, I know. Now I'm beginning to think he was not a good president. Yeah. Starting to occur to us there was a problem there.
That doesn't even get into what's going to happen now. The opening of, is it the Declaration of Independence? We hold these truths. To be self-evident. Self-evident. Yes. You don't hear that word a lot, but it's interesting that they chose that. Self-evident, meaning any fucking moron would know this without even being told. And those are the things he went right away with a red pen and went, no, let's not.
Let's not do that. That's exactly right. It's self-evident. You don't appoint your kids to run the White House. Okay, so that's true that he put the red line through all men are created equal. But Democrats as well as Republicans have put the red line through inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Who put the red line through men are created equal? Trump, in just the ways that you just said.
What does that have to do with men are created? He put the red line through like all these ways that government is supposed to function. Like, you know, the FBI is not your personal police force. Don't appoint your kids to run the White House. Those kind of things. That's what he did. I don't know what you mean by all men are created equal. All men are created equal means... I mean, he's got...
If you say that some group is better than another, if you demonize one group of Americans, you were talking about attacking the norms. He's attacking the principle of radical equality, which is the whole purpose of the American ideal, that we are out of many, we are one. You're not supposed to say Muslims aren't as good, Mexicans aren't as good, or some would say Jews aren't as good, some would say blacks aren't as good. The whole point of the American ideal is that we seek to hold that all men are created. And should be treated equally before the law.
yeah i would never call him an enlightened liberal uh donald trump but but they've also made a little more of that than there is i think he's a man of a certain era who uh yes definitely has racist inclinations um and certainly has said some things but like that thing about if you really look at what he said
There are good people on both sides. Again, I'm the least of a fan of Donald Trump as there is in this country. I've said the most ridiculously horrible things about him and I'm proud of it.
but don't gaslight me. You don't have to gild the lily. Well, no, like on that, if you look at that, it's unnecessary to make the case on that. There are good people on both sides. It's like very soon after he did explicitly condemn the Nazis and the Klan and stuff like that. I've seen tapes put together where he has explicitly said, I disavow, I disavow, I disavow. So let
Let's just stick to how awful he is. We don't have to add on to it. A lot of people were more responsible for men are not created equal before Donald Trump came along. Jefferson Davis comes to mind.
Well, kind of that's the whole point because he was a confederate and because he was a slave owner. Right, and Trump isn't. Yes, but Trump did when he said there are good people on both sides. You talk about Nazis who were there. You're talking about people who are marching in the streets saying Jews shall not replace us. But I think he explained he didn't mean those people. No, no, no. See, this is where you and I disagree. Gary Cohen sat there, stood there like he was apoplectic. Didn't say anything. Who? But clearly Gary Cohen who was his Jewish secretary of treasury or whatever. Right. So when he said... No, it's a horrible thing to say. When you say
he backed it up. He backed it up when he got back to the office and somebody said, you better back that one up, sir. Okay. Certainly, look, as I always say, he's stupid and crazy. So it's crazy just to say that and it's stupid the way he did it. But, uh,
I think it wasn't by the way they go back. I think it was in the same news conference. I think he did say something about that was much more explicit and which made me go, okay, you know, I hate it when that side cherry picks the one thing and especially with him because it's like you can do it. It's like working with a five-year-old. You can find something that's so easy. You kind of have to like understand, okay, again, he's bad enough as he really is.
Don't do that to me because it makes me just go, oh, everything has to be a team game. Can you just show me what is...
without putting your spin on it. The Times used to be a newspaper where, yes, I understand that I'm going to get your opinion on the opinion page, but the front page was like, oh, okay, you're just giving me the news. And that doesn't exist anymore. I guess it doesn't exist anywhere. Well, it's because of what you were saying before, the conglomeratization of these media companies. And there's no Walter Cronkite out there right now. Although you find some good stuff on independent media. You find some good stuff out of your mouth sometimes.
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I love that we can, we're living in an age now where this is where the presidential candidates can come. They go to Joe Rogan. Well, Joe Rogan, ask Joe Rogan to have me on because he hasn't. Really? Yeah, he has Bobby, but he won't have me. You know, I'm not in that close communication with Joe. Joe Rogan, if you're watching, have me on too. I'm a supporter and a fan and a friend, I hope.
I would hope something gets this probably easier. Let me just say it and then somebody will tell Joe. But you definitely should do Joe Rogan. I don't understand it. He won't have me on. And also Elon Musk. Who gave the Twitter spaces to Bobby.
and others. He said, any presidential candidate, I will give the Twitter spaces. And I twice raised my hand on Twitter and said, I'd love to do it, and he won't have me. I feel very invisibilized, Bill, very erased. And you should, and that's not right. Not you. Thank you. I mean, there are some people who I wouldn't object to, but you ran once before. You're a really serious person. Look,
I don't mean to say this in a mean way, but you're not going to be president. You don't know. But you know what? Somebody's got to be in... It's that indoctrination, see? Well, yes, I guess. Right, long shot, the long shot candidate. I'm no more of a long shot than Barack Obama was at the beginning. Yes, you are. Donald Trump. He was a senator. Well, Donald Trump wasn't, and nobody thought Donald Trump was going to win. Donald Trump was...
Yeah, okay. Well, I'm not arguing those facts. I'm just saying that... No, look, I think you'd be a better president than a lot of the people in there. But you're right. Let a thousand flowers bloom. Thank you. Can we hear from the people? Thank you. And that's very surprising about Elon because... And Joe, who I like both. Ask them. But yeah, no. It'd be different if they...
didn't have the platforms it's not like you're they're on once a month and you'd be crowding out no there's plenty of time and space and i'm a presidential candidate yes and a serious person thank you yes we know this i mean look you'll always be characterized because that's what media does and let's be honest comics we all have to find things about everybody you know usually it's one thing you know bush was stupid and clinton was horny trump was like everything you
You know, he was stupid and he was fat and he was horny. The orange face. Right, orange face and a mushroom dick. You know, it was just like never ending with that guy. But with you, they had to...
be the crystal lady or the, you know, because you have this background in spirituality. And look, you know me, we're kind of not on the same page with that either, but it in no way stops me from liking you or thinking that you're not serious and also realizing I could be wrong.
Maybe you are right. We'll find out. It'll all come to an end and we'll be like, oh, fuck, Mary Ann's here. At a certain point, it will all be very clear. Really? You think so? Well, that's my thought about what happens at a certain moment of death. Oh, I'm very interested. But that's where you and I would be very... Well, tell me what happens. I'm interested. Well, I do believe that consciousness survives death. How? Well, there's... Like consciousness, like a ghost, like a...
I think the brain is the transmitter of consciousness. I don't think consciousness emanates from the brain. In what form does it live on after we... Formlessness. Formlessness. So it's like we can't even imagine it. We can't even imagine it because it's beyond what the mortal mind can grasp. Because it's beyond the concepts of time and space.
Well, I mean, I'm not going to say there's a lot of evidence for it. Pure ultimate truth, pure ultimate reality. Okay. I mean, again, I'm not going to say there's a lot of evidence for a thing like that. I mean, we are just imagining this and saying it could be the truth because I'm thinking of it. Right.
But I think in terms of the kinds of things that you and I are very concerned about politically, it's not going to be until after we die that some things are made clear. Some things are being made very clear right now, such as climate change and its catastrophic results. There are things happening on the planet right now that should be causing us beyond grave concern. Yeah.
And the fact that we are right now in the midst of this heat, you know, according to all indicators, this is going to be the coolest summer of our lifetimes. The storms, the tornadoes, the floods, everything.
And at a time when we should be ramping down fossil fuel extraction, we are ramping up fossil fuel extraction. And if we elect either one, whether Trump or Biden, any of the status quo candidates, we will continue to ramp up fossil fuel extraction because of the undue influence of big oil. Do you ever take a private plane? I have, but I wouldn't do it anymore. You would never again take a private plane?
Well, I will say this. I recognize that there's something wrong with it now in a way which when I lived here, someone might have said there were a few times that there were private jets. Somebody, probably someone you and I both would know they're going to go to New York. So you don't take a private plane to campaign?
No, I mean, I'm not at that point in my campaign. Right. But you've got a good point. What if your campaign did catch fire and you had to do the kind of schedule that candidates do where they do take their own plane? You wouldn't take it? I don't know. I have to really think about that because there would be an argument.
of the legitimacy of that. That's kind of not private at that point. - See, I did an editorial about this, which-- - Yeah, what would be the answer for you if you were running for president? - The point of this is that like every single person in this town who's a giant environmentalist, they all take private planes. You can get-- - But they're not running for president. They're just heading to New York for the weekend. That I would not do. - No, no, no, I get that. But no, I did a mea culpa about, I don't know,
sometime this year about the fact that I do take private planes to do my stand-up gigs. Otherwise, I couldn't get to them. Right.
But it's still something I don't have to do but I'm tired of being a phony about it or I was and so I just said look I I can be called a bad environmentalist I can live with that but I cannot be called a hypocrite and all these other people are fucking hypocrites They all everybody who's a big environmentalist in politics and government Except when I need to get somewhere and then I fly private and you know what? I
God bless them, because the bigger point I was trying to make is, look, I believe as much as I ever did that this planet is dying and burning. It is dying and burning. And we have to do something. But I also recognize that after 50 years of trying this plan of, let's fix it by being better people, that's not working. I think we have to really work very hard to think of another answer to, other than,
People are gonna be good and use less absolutely People are selfish and are gonna do and it's very hard to tell the people in China and India who haven't had air conditioners and cars For all these years and now they're becoming a giant middle-class society that can afford them Oh, no, you can't use that air because we are used it up Well, we don't have the power to tell China or India what they can do. You see what the power? Yes
Yes, I do. But I also know, for instance, if I were president, the first thing I'd do is cancel the Willow Project. What's that? What is the Willow Project? Is that the-- The Willow Project is the $8 billion ConocoPhillips oil extraction project in Alaska, which completely nullifies all of the green energy investments in the Inflation Reduction Act. But here's the thing. You're attacking it from the wrong end. And they've done this before. Germany
Said okay, you know what we're gonna do. We are gonna get rid of all our nuclear because we don't want any nuclear and that's no good and then what happened is they had a shortfall and They got ahead of themselves and and they needed more energy. So what did they have to go back to coal? So by getting rid of nuclear which is the cleanest they went back to something worse and I feel like we're doing that also
How are we doing that? Well, because we're good. Biden. He's given more oil drilling permits even than Trump did. Yes, because people need oil and they're going to use it. And it doesn't. And this idea that we were not going to talk to Saudi Arabia. Remember when they killed the journalist and they cut his head off with the bone saw. We don't talk to you anymore. Of course not.
this year Biden was over there sitting in a gold chair holding hands with a man and drinking coffee out of a thimble. So why would we be supporting him? Honestly, Bill. Because if we're going to use the oil...
Why not American oil? Does Saudi oil not ruin the atmosphere? Of course it does. It doesn't. If you're going to use the oil, use the oil that is not going to hurt the country while you're trying to figure out how to get off oil. And also, again.
We need to really work on the idea that maybe there is another way. Because, again, I'm losing faith in the people can be tamed. And again, this is your thing about the people are good people. Well, they're not good on the environment because you cannot get that. If you ask in a poll, do you think we should be doing more of the environment? Yes. Next question. How much would you be willing to spend a year to do it? It's always like less than $100. But those polls.
For $100 a year, yes, I'll fix the environment. Those polls so obfuscate. We need to mass mobilize, World War II level mass mobilization, for a just transition from a dirty economy to a clean economy. Wow, that sounds like a lot of big government. And I agree. Oh, my God. No, and I agree government does have to get involved. Yeah, I mean, Bobby Kennedy says the discipline of the free market will fix it. No, no. No, I don't believe that necessarily either. No.
The idea of World War II mobilization sounds to me like a lot of dictating to people how they're going to live in a way that is going to backfire. It has to do, it has to do with massive investments in green energy. But we're doing that. I mean, Biden- Once again, he says that. He says that with the investments, green energy, very healthy green energy investments in the Inflation Reduction Act. That is true. But
The Willow Project completely nullifies the value of those. And also the $858 billion defense budget. The U.S. defense establishment is the single largest institutional emitter of greenhouse gases. Of course. Of course. Well, let's change that. I mean, the U.S. military, I think if it was its own country...
Would be like something like the 20th biggest polluter in the world. Yes, correct. I mean it's single largest institutional one So we can we we've been taught to limit our political imaginations and we must break free of that This is our this is our grandchildren's lives. We're talking about here. We must make this change and you know Franklin Roosevelt when when Hitler's when World War two when Hitler started marching in Europe and
The United States had basically nothing when it comes to a military. England had nothing. And Hitler had been preparing his military for the last five years, plus every country he went into he was able to absorb their industrial capacity. So what did Franklin Roosevelt do? He talked to the people.
He educated people. He convinced people. This is something we have to do. And we did it. When the American people are aroused by genuine leadership and they can really understand this is something we have to do. We have proven in our past we can and will do. Yeah, but the people huddled around the radio in 1939 were very different from the assholes sitting, staring at their phone and reading Reddit today.
Well, a lot of those people that you feel are assholes sitting around their phone reading Reddit today feel personally insulted by that and would listen to a leader that showed them more respect. They're not listening because they don't listen to a show like this. I mean, and the ones who do would not be insulted by that. Because let me tell you, when I talk to younger people and you critique their generation's
They never like fight back. They go, I know. We're terrible. That's not what I learned. That's not what I see out there. But you're attracting a very small politically involved audience. That's not... Marianne2024.com. Exactly. Attract more. That's not the typical person out there. You know what, Bill? Who doesn't even know who you are. The 20-year-old doesn't know who you are. They're watching TikTok. Hold on a second. Hold on.
The majority, you're putting a lot of stock in the majority. The majority is not what changes things. The majority didn't wake up one day and say, let's free the slaves. The majority didn't wake up one day and say, let's give women the right to vote. The majority didn't wake up one day and say, let's desegregate the South. As a matter of fact, interesting fact to me,
The majority didn't even say, let's break and get independence from England. It always starts by a few people. Correct. Considered outrageous radicals by the status quo of their time. Yes, true. Who have a better idea. True. Who are so convicted, and conviction itself becomes a force multiplier, and invite and attract people.
more and more people who get that this is the more evolutionary sustainable idea and then you reach that critical mass and things tip and i believe what's happening right now the status quo is unsustainable
things are going to break one way or the other. They're either going to break in the direction of greater democracy and justice, or they are going to break in the direction of dystopia and authoritarianism. That's why we cannot put against Donald Trump or any of those guys in 2024 someone who does not deliver more for the people. Franklin Roosevelt said that we wouldn't have to worry about a fascist takeover as long as democracy delivered on its promises.
Democracy is not delivering on its promises, Bill, and you can't expect people to be okay with that. It's not delivering on its promises to all the people. All the people. 20% of Americans live, you know, if you're in the top 20% of the American economy, you're doing pretty well. 20% are like on an island surrounded by a vast sea of economic despair. 70% of Americans experience.
experience economic, chronic economic anxiety. One in four Americans live... That's 70%. That's ridiculous. That's the latest report. Report from who? I don't know what that means. CNBC. Okay, I believe...
Look, I believe... One in four Americans live with medical debt. Half of our seniors live on $25,000 and less a year. People are rationing insulin in this country. Yes, there is definitely an underclass. It's true. It's amazing that they are somehow able to take as much taxes as they do take and still can't fucking solve that problem. They can't get it from either end. I don't understand that because it's not like they don't take a great deal of taxes.
What they do with it is a lot of wasted, raft. That is correct. I mean, look what the COVID money. I did a long piece. We talked about that, actually, on your show once. Yeah. Well, I did a long piece on it. Like, at least half of that COVID money, and we're talking in the trillions, was just flat out stolen. They could have just given $60 to every person. It would have done more for people and to stimulate the economy. So, yes, there is this underclass in this country. I agree that, like, 40% of the country, I think...
Could not absorb a $400 unexpected expense. So think of the anxiety that you would feel all the time to live with that. So we need to attack it on the level of cost. That's why we should have universal health care. That's why we should have tuition-free college and tech school.
We should have those things which are given to the citizens of every other advanced democracy, including those, like you said, the hybrid economy with capitalism, with socialist elements so that you are taking care of those. Let's not pretend that we don't already have a lot of socialism. Well, we have the police department is basically a socialist. Social security? Yeah, social security.
which came from the Socialist Party. Okay, Medicare. But it's not Medicare for all. Unemployment? It's Medicare, it's not Medicare for all. Well, Obamacare is getting very close to Medicare for all. We still have 85 million Americans who are underinsured or uninsured. And you have to be really kind of buffered emotionally if you think 85 million people does not matter. No, I'm not the straw man who thinks 85 million people... No, I'm not saying that you are, but I'm just saying when people say, oh, well, that doesn't matter.
No, but I'm also saying that when you just ride around you just see a country that does not look like it's falling apart No, my eyes also matter it matters what I read and what people tell me it also matters that I just live in this world and I travel a lot and I'm out in the city a lot and a lot of people are just living their best lives and they're not they're not all fucking rich it's not all the top 20% and
For all its horrible problems, this country still somehow, how we got through the pandemic and didn't go broke, I don't know. I mean, we probably will in the future. Maybe it's the inflation is part of that issue. But I just don't see a country where the people are just seething and unhappy when I'm out. And that has to count for something. You know where I was last night? I was speaking to teenagers on Skid Row.
Do you know how many people are homeless in Los Angeles County on any given night? 78,000. If you go to Skid Row, you're going to... Okay. That's my point. You say you drive around, but where do you drive around? Okay. You don't drive too many miles. Of course. Why would I go to Skid Row? That's kind of my point. So you don't really... You say, I don't see anybody going through that. That's right. You're not driving there. And most people don't. They're more than an underclass. Yes. There's this invisibilized... Yes.
field of suffering out there. It's not more than an underclass. It's an underclass. It's a large, a too large underclass that
that this country, that it's a scandal, that we certainly can't seem to address it. No, no, no, no, no. It's not that we can't address it. It's that in order to address it, you have to challenge the corporate bottom line. You either can allow short-term profits for huge corporate entities, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, big agricultural companies, chemical companies, big food companies, gun manufacturers, big oil and defense contractors, to be this corporate problem.
aristocracy that get theirs first
You can either have that or you can have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. It's not that we can't, Bill. It's that we, at this point, in this aberrational chapter of our history, do not care to. And our government is bought and sold by that corporate aristocracy. Right. But government, I mean, from both sides, we were just saying, a lot of that money was Biden money that got stolen. They passed out COVID money. Okay, so...
Whether it's Republicans or Democrats, it seems like they both waste a lot of money, take a lot of money they shouldn't have. And corporations obviously live like fat cats too. Right. And corporations very often don't pay the taxes that they should. Yes, very often, Bill. Yes. And they should not be able to park all that money overseas. It's a traitorous thing to do. I agree. But what's the answer? Is to take that...
I'm sympathetic to the idea that we take that money that you're parking in the Bahamas and not paying taxes on, and we give it to the government to fix these problems. But then I don't really trust the government to fix my problems, because they don't. But if you look at something like universal health care, it's not government-run, it's government-funded.
Medicare is simply Medicare for all. Yes, and Obamacare is a success. I mean, with all the times that the Republicans tried to kill this, they wrote like 70 bills in Congress trying to kill this. And then they tried to kill it through the Supreme Court. And they did manage to take out one of the legs of it, and it still works. But that's the point. That's how bad our... That's why if the Democratic Party would just do right by people, if the American...
It's a Democratic party. They didn't do right by passing Obamacare? Obamacare was the best he could do given that the insurance companies said you cannot go any further. You take the greed of the insurance companies out and we could go all the way. It's not the insurance companies. It's the pharmaceutical companies. Well, the pharmaceutical companies.
companies, why people are rationing insulin. It's why people are putting GoFundMe pages on the internet in order to pay for life savings. The profit of the insurance companies is not, I read this recently, it was surprisingly lower than I thought. I mean, I'm sure that they're
I think they've been back before Obamacare they were getting away with murder they have been somewhat tame that that industry but I mean the system itself is just so fucked up you can get a knee operation at one hospital and in the same city across town it cost five times as much there's no there's no like sort of limit on gouging that's all the more reason why we should have medicare for all actually well you know that the top five the total
The total medical... Would that solve the gouging problem? Yes, absolutely. Even right now, the government has given away its right to negotiate these prices. But the government does have marching rights, which means that they could go in there if
If a drug is developed with even $1 of taxpayer money, which is basically all drugs, the government actually has the right to go in there and lower prices. But too often, including now, they do not exercise that right because they don't want to piss off the insurance companies and the pharmaceuticals. The top five pharmaceutical companies last year alone, their profit was $80 billion. And our medical debt is somewhere between $88 and $200 million. So do you think it will make a difference?
in this election that not just you, but you and Bobby Kennedy
Both are serious critics of the pharmaceutical industry. Yes. Skeptical. I mean, you know, I'm in the same camp of I don't agree with everything Bobby says. I don't know exactly where you are on this kind of stuff. I'm a medical skeptic of everything that includes vaccines. That doesn't make me or, I don't know, Bobby says he's not an anti-vaxxer. I think he's a little more anti than I am.
But I want the decisions to be able to be my decisions, what I do with any medical intervention, including vaccines. I, of course, understand that they work. I'm not sure we are on the same page on that. I think he thinks that the vaccines may have done more harm than good. My view is that because Americans are in such bad shape, they needed a vaccine. So it did save millions of lives. That's my view on that. I was not one of those Americans who wanted it.
or thought I needed it and resent having to have taken it. Where are you on that? Well, I certainly don't go as far as Bobby does. I think that the government was afraid to just be honest with the American people. Right. That too. I was very concerned that there was so little conversation about treatment.
And I agree with what you were saying. I think a lot of the danger and the risk involved had to do with the fact that we're not a healthy society. You know, look how much higher the chronic diseases are here than they are in Europe. And it's all because of obesity, or almost all of it. A lot of it. Well, we have a sickness care system, as I said last year in the last debate, rather than a health care system. And that, of course, has to do with the quality of our food, quality of our water. Look at a ketchup bottle, an American ketchup bottle,
and the difference between that and a ketchup bottle in Canada. What is it? Oh, there are elements in the ketchup in the United States, unhealthy factors, that would not be allowed in Canada. That's why you have all these companies. There's a company called Saint-Gobain.
that has a factory in Merrimack, New Hampshire, and it is just spewing PFAS into the water. And there's this huge-- - Spewing what? - PFAS, these forever chemicals that don't break down. - Oh yes. - And that are known carcinogens. - And what are they called again? - PFAS, P-F-A-S. - P-F-A-S. - This is what's so interesting to me. Saint-Gobain would not be allowed to do that in France.
So like other companies around the world who are told by their governments, you can't put those kind of carcinogens in the food. You can't spew those kinds of carcinogens in the environment or the water. They say, that's okay. We'll go to America. They'll let us do it. Right. No, I know.
Oh, I've been on that forever. So this deregulatory orgy that really began with Ronald Reagan, of course. And then they would call it job-killing regulations. But again, I've got to go back to the people. The people have it in their power. We had a prop. You probably were very aware of this living out here in California. A proposition some years ago.
label just label whether GMOs and the people voted no, I don't want to know what's in this shit I mean it wasn't like a Proposition to get rid of the GMOs just to tell me that the GMOs are in there and they went TMI Okay, so let's okay. So what a lot of people well
Well, first of all, that has to do with the incredible obfuscation and the billions of dollars that the other side spends. Remember when the Clintons tried to do a universal health care thing? So you're saying that people were too stupid to suss it out? No, it's both, Annville. I mean, I'm not excusing intellectual laziness or anything, but with what you just said before, I was thinking... I don't blame them. I can't suss it out either. When I see those ads on TV, vote yes to say no to say... I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. But that had to do a lot with the lift and the... Hold on. When you were saying before, the people...
Look at the millions of people who worked so hard to support Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020 and saw the way the DNC suppressed his candidacy. The DNC even admitted in court that they suppressed his candidacy. So you're talking to a lot of people who feel, God damn, I tried. And they are cynical and they are depressed about it and they are frustrated and they are angry. And then when they hear someone say, you just need to work harder,
No, the system needs to stop thwarting democracy and start facilitating democracy instead. And that includes our political parties. So the Bernie Sanders thing, that's interesting.
Their answer would be. Who, the DNC's answer? No, no, yes, the DNC. The people like, the establishment. The same people who have no imagination about everything. Correct. Okay. Their answer about all of this, about you, I mean, the way they attack you and Bobby Kennedy in the New York Times, like it,
You'd think Hitler was rolling over Europe again. Right, thank you. Jesus Christ. And we're in Pomona. And their Trump card is Trump because what they say is, and it's not an argument without heft, I'm not going to lie. Their argument is,
With Donald Trump as the candidate of the other party, we cannot fool around with dividing at all. We just have to get behind the most likely, as unappealing as the candidate might be, that we have. There's one that did beat him before. He's the president. There's a lot of advantages to incumbency. And, you know, when you look at what Biden has done...
If they do make the case that as always Democrats are terrible at making the case getting out of Afghanistan Turning a lot of the big money we spent towards stuff. That was green energy stuff it's not a horrible record and the end of somehow the economy is not crashing and
Okay, so that's that answer. It's not a horrible answer. I do think that we need more voices. I'm glad you're doing it. But I get that, that with Donald Trump circling like a shark,
we cannot afford to be throwing chum in the water. Okay, may I respond? Yeah. Okay, 2020- We're out of time. It was great to see you. 2024 is not 2020. In 2016, the Republicans had many candidates-
the Republicans still won. In 2020, the Democrats had many candidates and the Democrats still won. So this idea that many candidates somehow weakens the party. I think debating, for instance, President Biden debating Bobby and myself would only strengthen him. I mean, if he's ready to take on Trump, prove it to us by taking on Bobby and me in debates. Secondly, when you talk about what he has done, the president's argument that the economy is doing well
is contradictory to the visceral experience of the majority of American people. This is like the slow motion car crash of 2016. When Hillary said, let's continue with the success of the last eight years, millions of people said, what success? I'm drowning here. Those people are still drowning, Bill. Those people are still drowning. I agree.
A third of America's workforce lives on less than $15 an hour and cannot find a place to live. I rode a bike on Venice Boulevard about two weeks ago. And you saw the homeless people. No, I didn't see any of them. I saw like a billion people who were not rich but living their best life and having a great fucking day in the California sun. Both are true, Bill. I mean, I'm just... Both are true. What? Both are true. Both are true. Yeah, I'm not...
I'm not trying to take away from the wonderfulness of this country, but I am saying that there is a rumbling underneath an earthquake. There is. And we need to deal with that earthquake. And that's the point. When you say before, they say we have a fascist at the door. You know what I say to that when people say to me, Marianne, how can you do this? Don't you realize that you have a fascist at the door? My response is, that's why I am doing this.
These arguments you're making about Biden, I don't believe would beat the fascists. There was such a fear of him in 2020. This time, people are rethinking what is going on, Bill. And if we really, I agree with Roosevelt, you want to avoid a fascist takeover? Deliver for the people. Our agenda should be universal health care, should be tuition-free college, should be free child care, should be paid family leave, guaranteed housing, an economic bill of rights, and a guaranteed living wage. That's how you beat Trump.
That's how you beat Trump in 2024. And even more importantly, that's how you repair the country. You know these kids don't know who Roosevelt is, right? It doesn't make... I'm just saying. I'm telling you. Let's get you a more... That's what my brother said. My brother said, stop it, man.
Who can you be quoting? I can't plagiarize. Vin Diesel. Somebody like that. All right. August 19th, I'll be at Ovens Auditorium in Charlotte, North Carolina. See America. It's happening. August 20th, the Township in Columbia, South Carolina. September 1st, the Moody Theater in Austin, Texas. September 2nd, outside of Dallas at the Texas Trust CU Theater. That's Grand Prairie. Look at that.
America's still happening. They're still going to comedy shows. They're having a great time. Yes, we have problems. Yes, you're going to get elected and fix them. Thank you. Thank you. God bless you, darling. I hope you had fun. I had a ball. Thank you, Bill. Okay. Let's go. Let's go.