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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. She reached out. I play an Asian man in a film and I wanted to know if it was all right. I'm not some kind of Asian notary public. The human body, it's like a defense in football. You got to take what the defense will give you. And when my body would give me 30 drinks a week, I took it. Hey. Hi. Oh, hello. That's Lucia. What? That's Lucia.
Yes. I mean, I accept your word on that. She's a good girl. She's really sweet. I mean, you're lucky. See, you know who the animal's friend is. Lifetime Peter Board member. Since the 90s. Amazing.
Yeah. I remember when Peter was just like, you know, we'd have the annual gala to raise money. And it was like, you know, eight people, you know, and like the couple of James Cromwell was always like the stalwart who was there at the beginning, Pam Anderson. Yeah. It was now it's like the Oscars. Right. You know, I mean, it's a real show with lots of star power because...
You know, who doesn't like animals? Well, the big one that I remember was the one where Paul McCartney was there. Paul McCartney, of course, I'm sure the biggest funder. Yeah. I try to do my part, but I can't compete on that level. So what is this dog saying? This is Lucia Caterina.
Now, why did you name it that? Well, it's Lucia is light. She's the light of my life. Really? Katerina. I can see why you like her. She's adorable. She's adorable. Yeah. She really wants to say hi to you. I can see. Well, the dog can, you want to be on my lap? Yeah. Okay. She's like really, really trying to get to you. I see. Now, this looks like an S&M kind of a thing. It's very badass. It's very, it's barbed wire.
She's very cool. All right. No, not on the first date. I don't do any, no tongue, all right? I can see. They always want to get that tongue in there, you know, and they're very sneaky about doing it. They're like Ali with the jab, you know. You don't see it coming, and the next thing you know, the tongue is in your mouth. Oh, no. I know people who, like, kiss their dogs, like,
You know, I was going to say not in a pervert way. No, nothing weird. They just fucking French kissed her. But they do. And that's it. I mean, I love animals, but that's a bridge too far. It's a little bit much. It's much. It doesn't seem to hurt them, though. She's just very affectionate. I can see. This goes on all day like this? She'll calm down in a second. She'll calm down. Right.
Now, she's never going to, like, take a shit on me, right? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, because I'm totally not into that. No. I mean, forget about the kissing. I mean, the coprologia, whatever. It was a cop. Coprophilia. Coprophilia. Coprophagia is when you want to eat it. When you want to eat it. I don't mess with the naughty place. And no anal? Well, that's what I'm saying. Ever? That's the naughty place. Is it naughty? There are reasons. We shouldn't talk about it. But I know you're a sexual, what do you call it, omni? Oh.
An omnivore? Yeah, omnivore. That covers it. You've availed yourself of the entire banquet. Adventurer. Right? Adventurer. I mean, men, women, farm animals. Not animals, but I definitely think anal sex is a new frontier.
I don't think it's new. I think the Romans were doing it quite a bit. I mean, I think they did it... Look, people will eat anything and fuck anything. That is the bottom line on people. And, you know...
Anything with a hole, they'll go for it. It doesn't even have to be human. It doesn't have to be alive. Men will stick their dick. I mean, it's odd because the dick for us is like such a delicate part of the body. You'd think you wouldn't put it in a vacuum cleaner. No matter how good you thought that could feel. And yet every year, there are many stories of men who have accidents and lose their penis sometimes because
through sticking it in appliances. I mean, it's just, it blows my mind. But, you know, hey, different strokes, huh? So what's the weirdest thing you ever did? Like, what would you tell you of all these experiences? Not ever, well, not ever enjoyed but did. There was a guy that liked to light my leg on fire. So he would...
put antibacterial gel on my leg and then he would light it and then it would just burn off of my skin. It was very, it was like very magician kind of like, you know, that kind of thing. It is. It sounds exactly like magician. It's like that kind of...
But it was, I think it was related to BDSM. Like it was related to some kind of bondage and discipline. Bondage, domination, submission. Submission. Masochism, that kind of thing. Right. But I couldn't find a way to be turned on by it.
But you let it happen. I let it happen because it was... A few times? Yeah, because I was like, oh, this is... Because other than that, he was a great guy. Everything deserves a good try.
Can I ask what you liked about this guy? Like, what was the compensating factor that made you go, okay, he wants to light my leg on fire, but boy, you get him on the Donbass region and he is good. I mean... I liked him. He was handsome. He was a nice man. He was shallow, hussy. Yes. Yes.
For sure. He was really interested in BDSM, which I am as well. So we met. Did you meet through that community? Yeah, we met at a dungeon. At a dungeon? And we sparked up a nice conversation and we sparked up a nice relationship. And then he was very into it. But he didn't have actual sex ever. So that was the thing that turned me off. Like he never wanted to put penis in vagina.
He only wanted to light my leg on fire. He wanted to do, like, he was very good with ropes, so he's really good at, like,
Putting me up in different positions in the air, which I think is really great But I just didn't like the performative aspect of it But what how did he get off? I mean so when the when the leg caught on fire did the dick get hard was that it? I don't need you presuming weren't you there? Yeah, but it was I was not able to like touch it or even but you couldn't see I mean I was kind of far I had a blindfold on you had a blindfold on Oh, of course
Sounds like this guy was very ashamed of his cock. He didn't want you to see it. Maybe.
But also, maybe also, like, he just was sexual in a different way outside of what we think of as, like, penis-vagina sex. Yeah, he's a fucking weirdo. Yeah, people are weird sometimes. Well, in your life, a lot, it seems like. It's weird. Take me back to the dungeon, though. You said you met at a dungeon. Is that a specific type of establishment that exists in this world? Yes, yes. And it's, okay, and, like, if I, like...
Went on Yelp. You could probably find. There's professional spaces that house. They're permanent places or like the Halloween store? No, they're actually permanent places that are, sometimes they're often like used for photo shoots or people will book them or professional. And it looks like a dungeon. It looks like kind of like this room a little bit. Yeah.
Thank you. This is not that dissimilar from... I love that. Yeah. Well, maybe I could have it double as a dungeon some night. You could. You could use it as a... But it looks more medieval, like a torture chamber. Yeah. Like if you had crossed...
the King of England in 1538, this is where you would send. Right, but it's also kind of got a stoner vibe, so it's a little medieval times. Like, did it have the manacles on the walls? Yes. Really? Yeah, sometimes. Because that's, when you ever picture a guy in a dungeon, very often in a cartoon in The New Yorker, they're always manacled against the wall. Yes. You know, and...
Then they have something very, very funny to say that is inappropriate for someone in a dungeon.
But I'm sure there were people who really did rot away in dungeons. I mean, oh my God. The people that wrote, you know, whatever. I mean, torture still exists today. But it's like the Middle Ages vision of the dungeon is kind of the aesthetic that all of these dungeons are sort of like, I think, placed in still. You know, it also looks a little bit like a round table pizza. I once went to a goth.
something, oh my God, this is, I always say this, but my memoir will be called Who Was In My Body? Because the things I did, not just when I was young, that's what's really kind of sad. It's like, I mean, I was probably 42 when this happened, but
I was dating a girl who was like 22, and she was a goth. This was like the 90s. You know, it was like a thing. Yeah. I remember she had a coffin. By the way, I'm still great friends with her. She's a wonderful human being. Love her. I remember she had a coffin purse. Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah.
At the time, it was sexy, I guess. And she took me to, I think this was our first date. And I remember it was goth. And people would look, kind of that look. You've trudged sort of onto it. Of course. Absolutely. OK. So there was a stage of some sort. I remember being in the back of a room. And there was a guy. And he was splayed out like this on a wheel. And he's...
And they would spin around and they would puncture his body and blood would come out. Yes. And they would collect it and then others would come and drink it. I mean, this is like when AIDS was still kind of, you know. Yeah. I mean, it's still not something you want to get, but we've certainly made great progress with it. But what's...
We had not made that kind of progress. This was probably 1998. That's incredible. That's quite hard. That's hardcore for like playing like that, like blood play in a public space. That's a big deal. That's commitment to your kink. Yeah. I mean, it's adrenaline too. Like people get off on the pain aspect of it, but it's also the exhibition aspect of it. It's also like this event, this performative thing. So I can see why that would be a turn on.
But what do you think led you to, I mean, like of all the hobbies, I mean, you know, you could have played with toy trains.
I mean, there's just a myriad of things on this earth that, you know, you could get into. And you, why this? Because bad childhood stuff? No, I grew up in a gay bookstore, and so there was so much of this already happening. In the bookstore? Yeah, my parents owned a gay bookstore.
So I was in the bookstore. Did they live above the bookstore? No, but we were in the bookstore all day and all night, like, you know, pretty much became our house in a way. Like we had a place that was, we didn't live behind it or above it, but we lived almost there. I think you should say my family lived above the bookstore, even though it's not true. We live in an age where nobody cares what the truth is anymore.
And you can totally embellish. It's just better. Okay, so you're above the bookstore. Okay. And you had to work 12 hours a day? Yes. Really? Well, my parents worked 12 hours a day, but I would come in. What the Koreans call a light work week. Yes. And I would come in and that would be our babysitter. So there was a lot of drag queens there. There were a lot of people who were getting full body tattoo suits in the late 70s and the 80s.
And there was a lot of talk of like leather, BDSM, and it was totally normalized. Right. So I just became curious. And then when I was a teenager, I worked at a lesbian S&M collective. How old? About 17, 16, 17.
You worked at a what? A lesbian BDSM collective where they were making sex toys out of leather. Collective. That's a vague term to me. What is that? A club? It's kind of like, well, it's a store. A store? And a club and a...
A warehouse, but also a public space, but also a bookstore, and also a place for information and a piercing salon. Put in the dungeon. You won't have to go anywhere. Everything. So that's a collective. Yeah. Everything in one. Okay. Everything in one. So you lived there? I worked there.
You worked there. Oh, they hire people. They hire people, and then I would work. So it's not like a kibbutz. It's not socialism. No, it's just that you hire people. I worked there, and then I was their rep. What was your job? I was manning their sex toy store.
And I was also the rep to go to sex parties with all of the toys. So then I would go, when I was a little bit older, I would go to the sex parties and then I would sell everything that we had, like whips and all that stuff. Sex parties. So they also had parties. Mm-hmm. And what about, how about the HR department? Um...
How does that work at the collective? I want to know. I'm sure there is one. I don't remember. Well, I mean, if your whole thing is sex and being weird, that's kind of tough. I just wouldn't envy the person who had to handle those complaints. Yeah. Well, you did come here to the dungeon. It was always very...
There was always so much emphasis on consent and so much emphasis on we're only doing things that we want to do. And therefore, when you have that level of consent and understanding and negotiation, you can pretty much do everything. Like there was a wild stuff going on. Lots of big group sex scenes, lots of fisting, lots of anal things in the naughty place. Lots of naughty places. Lots of naughty, naughty places. But this is all lesbians.
It was pretty much everybody, but the lesbian ethos was, it was like the lesbians ran it. But there were men there. There were men there. And trans? Trans women. Trans men.
Trans men in in the earliest for people born as a woman who were transitioning into male male body have a Penis that they were not born with well they oftentimes take testosterone Sometimes you don't grow a penis. Well, you grow like a you do if you're around someone attractive No, but you know what I mean, you know, you have to actually
I mean, they actually cut it out of their, you know, they cut the flesh out of the thigh. Yeah, there's different surgical things. There's different hormonal things. And you've seen that. Yeah. But you also... How do they look? Really? They look good. Yeah. And they're full length? They're all different. Everybody's different. Well, I mean, all different if you're going to get one. Yeah, it's different. If you're going to make one, you might as well... It's like... Who purposely makes a small dick? No, but it's like...
And it's all you could also wear a strap, which I think is a preference for a lot of people to to wear a strap strap on. Oh, I see. If you don't have a dick. Yeah. Or you wear one that is just your every day. Every day. So that you have. You wear it even when you're not trying to make.
Yeah, because in order to really achieve that feeling of your gender, you're going to wear something. I mean, I think that's a really important part of understanding who you are or feeling like you're really there. I'm not a trans man, so I don't know. Right. And of course, this issue, this subject is in the news constantly because the younger generation feels it's sort of like the civil rights issue of their time. Mm-hmm.
You know, I feel like I have a centrist view on it. Certainly the liberal part of me fully acknowledges that, you know, the range of what goes on in the human mind with sexuality is broad. That doesn't mean that the vast majority aren't, you know, still...
Male and female. But for whatever percentage that is, that's outside of that, let's say that collectively it's 10. It could be more. Everybody could be on the spectrum. I don't think that's true. I never felt very spectrum-y myself. I know a lot of people who feel the same way. But within that category of people who are not just heterosexual,
It's just, no wonder they need 56 categories on Facebook. You know, it's just so many variations of what, you know, and with the internet now, of course, you know, you can find people who, you could...
type in any weird, I need a lesbian to pee on me while I play with toy trains, and 300 people will be like, oh, great, what kind of train? Yeah, there's like a lot of that. That's actually very common. What? No. Fuck me up. Yeah. Come on. I think it's
it's really common. Playing with toy trains while somebody pees on you? Yeah, I think so. I was just spitballing. I know. I think I could find that. I'm saying you could, but I didn't. There's definitely somebody doing that. That's my point. There's probably $3,000
people doing it. And in the old days, you would never have known that there were other 3,000 people in the world. But with the internet, you can be like, I'm a cat and I shit in a box and there'll be 10,000. What kind of box? You know, I mean. It's nice. Absolutely. I love it.
And then there's a part of this which is a little crazy and with children, sometimes too early. America is an outlier here now. I mean, it's a little embarrassing for the people who are all gung-ho on switching up at early ages because...
The liberal countries in Europe that we always look to for their liberal guidance, they pulled back on this. We're kind of alone out there with like, you know, sure, cut his dick off. What the heck? What can go wrong? I don't think people do that, though. No, of course they don't. I'm being facetious. But America does...
go full steam on gender switching for children who have not reached puberty and at a younger age, puberty blockers and so forth, that again, Sweden, Denmark, the UK, places that were sort of experimenting with this, they have pulled back on this. They've said,
You know, we may be doing more damage than good. That is certainly something that is at least worth debating. One problem with the other side of this is they just don't want to talk about it. It's just like, if you don't agree with me one million percent from the get-go, you're a horrible bigot, and it's coming from hate. And it's not coming from hate. It's science, and we should be able to debate it, especially since it's so new and it involves children. Thank you.
I kind of feel better I got that off my chest. Good, I'm glad. No, and it's true. It has the added virtue of being true. But no, I mean, look, maybe my life would have been more interesting if I was not so regimented in the things that I like to do. But I never stopped liking the thing. I never got married. Well, yeah.
Yeah, that's right. You never got married. No. You never, I mean, but you. Because I like. You like being single. You like being alone. I like being alone and I like other things that go with being single as opposed to being married. It's always a choice that you make. Right, right. I mean, you, and when you're, very often, especially when I was younger, when I was in college,
One of the versions of my life, which was either with a steady girlfriend or single, you'd complain about the parts of the other life you don't have. Yeah. You're with a steady girlfriend. It's great. But you're like, oh, boy, I wish I could get laid on the road and I wish I could go to a strip club. You know, all this stuff. Remember when we went to the strip club in Hawaii? We had a good time. Such a good time. We had a party bus and everything. We had a party bus and we went to a strip club in Honolulu. Yeah.
That is such a great memory. It was really lovely. Yes. Do you still go every New Year's? You know, I stopped this last year. It was the last year. It became too... It's funny, when I first booked that, first wanted to do Hawaii, no one would book it. No one. I had to like...
find a promoter, Rick Bartolini, you remember Rick. Great guy. I love him. I'll miss him every year and a great promoter. And he was the only one who said, I will take a chance on this. But until then, nobody worked Hawaii. It was considered a dead territory. And then, you know, we did it enough years, people saw, oh, it's not so dead. Mm-hmm.
And now everybody does it, so it's hard to book a comic because they're all working on their own there. Yeah. So it kind of was a victim of its own success. But 12 wonderful years with so many great comics. I mean, I wish it would go on just for the sake of...
to the opportunity to like spend four days with somebody like you who I always liked, but it's like, I'm never going to, look, you're so busy. You know, you're, you have your life, you're my life. When are we going to see each other? Probably when we work. Right. That's how we all are. I've said that to so many comics. I love you, Howie Mandel. I wish I could, but we're not going to. We never get to. You got your life, I got my life and you got your close friends and I got mine. But when we work, we get to do it. That's right. Yeah.
You know. It was really cool. And you do work like every day of the year, don't you? Pretty much. I don't know who I am without working, you know? I'm sure you know that feeling. What a thing to say, though.
I don't think that's true. I think you know who you are without working. Come on. If you couldn't do stand-up, you'd wither? Well, if I didn't do stand-up, I would do other things. Like I'm always doing some putting. I'm like a putterer and like a busybody and doing all sorts of things. Always trying to work and trying to see. Because I think so much of my identity is wrapped in from doing stand-up comedy. But not just that. It's like when you're a stand-up comic, you're also always working in your mind. Right. In your heart. You're always like freaking out about something.
thinking about something. So it's like you don't ever stop being on the job. Well, that's on me. I mean, that's... Maybe you should try to let that go. Yeah. Because that seems imprisoning. I mean, I would not say I'm freaking out. I would not say... And what I would say is my antennae are always up for something that would be good in stand-up. Right. And, you know...
In the old days, I would carry a little pen like this big and a little piece of paper and try to... I mean, I have a collection of cocktail napkins. Yes. I'm sure this deep because we all...
Some people purposely write comics. I never purposely wrote. My method was always like, no, I'll get high. I'll talk to funny people. Funny things will come up. And if I think of something good, I'll remember it. I'll write it down. I mean, many things I wish I had written down and they wound up on the floor and there were probably some good bits there. But I don't find that to be a burden except for the, oh, boy, I don't want to forget that part.
I used to also have a little tape recorder. Oh, yeah, that's good. Remember when we all had little tape recorders when we started out as comics? Yeah. Tape ourselves and listen. You know who did that was Mitch Hedberg. He always had a little, these tiny cassettes. They were like so small, and he would carry it everywhere. I remember in New York, I had...
When I was doing an hour set somewhere like Caroline's, you know, this is like the 80s, but I was, you know, new as a headliner, but you do an hour. And the tape, those little tapes only lasted a half hour. Yeah. So I had to have one tape recorder in each pocket. Oh. And I had to remember at the half hour mark to turn off the one or else it would beep.
Oh, wow. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. That's so funny. I mean, I'm like you in the sense I'm a worker. Yeah. And I like it. You know, I love tinkering with the act. You know, there's no feeling as good as like, oh, you know, I just moved that joke two jokes earlier and the whole thing works ten times better. When it makes sense.
It just falls together, right? You know, you're always like feeding the audience some information and then, you know, you have to have them absorb this piece of information before this next piece of information is going to work. Yeah. And it's those little things that like can make a bit,
or a honk that's good, great. You know, just moving that around and how it works on the human mind. And it's tinkering. It's building a ship inside of a bottle. It is getting peed on while playing with a toy train. Like it's that, all of the pieces have to work. I know. But afterwards, I don't smell like pee, Margaret. You ever get peed on?
You have got to be fucking kidding me. Peed on? No. No. Did you ever pee on anybody? No. What? What am I, R. Kelly? Pee on somebody? Why would that bring pleasure to me? I don't really like it either, but people really like it. People? What people? Weirdos. Lots of people like it, yeah. Yes, they do. Lots of people like it. There must be something to it. There's even, I can tell you this, in stroke books...
um, you know, penthouse, stuff like that, I hear from a friend. They sometimes have had, because I've seen it, I mean, I heard it from a friend, like, you know, just, I mean, it's normally just a good stroke book. Okay, it's me. A good stroke book for a man, you know, hot chicks looking like
If somebody doesn't fuck me in the next two minutes, I'm going to do it to myself with my pointy shoe. I mean, that look in their eye. I mean, we're masturbators. You know, that's what we want to see. And sometimes they had a girl peeing. So there must be enough of a market. So and I was like, why did you have to show that one? That doesn't this is not helping my boner.
that I'm watching this girl pee. I mean, it's pee. Yeah. But is it like you conflate it? I think people conflate it or compare it to squirt. Is squirt pee? Now, that's an interesting subject. We'll be right back. Is squirt pee? You know what? I was much more happy about my squirt ratio before I found out that there might be pee in it.
I think there's pee in it. Yeah. I'm slowly coming to that realization. And that's, yeah. That's not the best news I've ever had. Because I don't just, I just don't think, I don't want pee on me. Yeah. I mean, you know, now pee, of course,
That's a little emotional more than scientific because pee, of course, is supposed to be sterile. I mean, the difference between piss and shit, kids, is, you know, pee is supposed to be completely sterile, no germs. Shit, all germs. Yeah, yeah. Which is another reason why I don't fuck in the naughty place. Mm-hmm.
Because it's the sewer of the body. The colon, which is what empties out into the naughty place. Right. So the sewer, I don't want to play in the sewer. Does that make me a weirdo? No. And it's certainly not anti-gay. It's just my preference. You get to have your preference with the toy trains. I get to have mine. Some gay people don't have anal sex. What happened? Some gay people don't have anal sex. I'm sure that's true. Of course, that itself is a...
Yeah. What do they have? Like scissoring and... Yeah, scissoring sometimes. Vibrators. Strap-ons. Fire. Fire. Fire. Fingers. Burning your date. Fingers are very important. Did you say... I'm sorry. I don't burn on the first date.
What is, if kissing is first base and the tits are second base and pussy is third base, what word is burning on this kid? What is burning the leg? We're not sure. We're not sure what game that is. Yeah. That's 43-man squamish, I think. Yeah.
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Like where it was just a real relationship, just straight up trains and fucking in the ass. Probably 12 years. 12? Yeah. Years? I was married for 12 years. Oh. Yeah.
Well, that's serious. Yeah. Marriage is serious. It's serious. I mean, that's when it's really getting serious. But I don't think I would be married again. I just don't like living with other people. Don't you like living alone? I love living alone. Yes, I do. Look who you're talking to. It feels so good. Oh, yeah. It feels so good. And it doesn't mean you're lonely. No. And it doesn't mean, you know, you don't have a company sometimes. Right. But, you know, but to be always on top of each other. I know there's no way to understand.
undo this, especially if you have kids and you want kids. You can't tell the kids, oh, mommy and daddy don't want to get sick of each other. So no, the kids-- I mean, I was lucky. I had a stable home. I know you had a rough childhood.
That's so much in life. I have the deepest admiration for people who overcame that because I did not have to. I was lucky with parents and stability. I had to completely leave it to be for upbringing. There was no...
or drugs or, you know, racism because it was an all-white town in the 1960s, you know? Yeah. It was just like there was no issues. Right. You know, not even any divorce. You know, there weren't broken homes. Everybody had mommy and daddy. I mean, I'm telling you. Yeah. It was like I feel like I came from the land that time forgot. It just seems like
Were we ever that idyllic? And, you know, you're younger than me, so you didn't have that. No. And I don't know. I mean, was it like this? There was dysfunction, but it was just invisible, maybe. Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, there was all those horrible things. I mean, racism. I mean, it was an all-white town. So you just didn't see it. Everybody just said, well.
You know, I mean, my parents were a liberal. To their great credit, at a time when parents either didn't bring this up to the kids at all, because it wasn't an issue,
because, you know, civil rights was a political thing and they weren't political and there's no black people in this town. So they either didn't talk about it with their kids or they told them the wrong thing. Right. America was so racist in the 60s. Yeah. My parents took the opposite approach and they made sure at a very young age we understood when Kennedy sent troops to
into the South in 63. I was seven. You know, my father explained that to me. That's a pretty young age to have your father tell you why that was a good thing and why Kennedy was his hero. Yeah. You know, so, you know, boy, things have changed. Do you remember what you felt like when Kennedy was shot? I remember the day. I can still see my mother's look as she walked across the lawn. We were let out of school early. Yeah.
So we thought it was a good thing, you know, out of school. But I didn't quite understand it until I remember I often, I think, walked home. And I remember that day did not because...
A car dropped me off because I remember being in a car. But I do remember it was a car I was not that familiar. And as it pulled up to the house, my mother came out of the front door and walked across the lawn to greet me at the car. And she just had a look on her face that I'd never seen. You know, a serious, downcast, this is the end of the world kind of look. So that's when I knew something was up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
And then we had to write a little essay about it at seven. Oh, what did you write? Oh, my father kept it. He adored it. I mean, it was something, you know, it was seven. Like, I remember the last line was something like,
And John John rode a donkey or not a donkey, but he had was there a horse? There was like a horse that I don't know. I mean, it was it was not the kind of punditry that you would expect for me later in life. But it was heartfelt. And I'm sure it reflected his view.
That, you know, this was a horrible thing and we had lost a great man. But that's largely the reason he liked him was civil rights. My parents were classic old school liberal Democrats. That's beautiful. Irish and Jewish. Yeah. You know. That's really beautiful. I had an aunt, Aunt Grace, who was...
you know, on the Irish side and voted Republican and it drove my father fucking nuts. Yeah. And she was living on money from Democratic coffers because, you know, back in that day, the 30s or 40s, the Irish ran everything in the Democratic Party and her husband was some Paul or somebody and she was living on Democratic pension money and voting for Nixon. It was
So, but yeah, I was lucky. Where's your, what's your family situation now? They've never voted. They've never, they don't ever feel like America is their country. They still don't. They've been here since 1963. Wow. And they've never participated in the politics. So it's a very...
I mean, they're very political in Korea, but they've never, ever wanted to vote and they've never wanted to participate, which is, I guess it's understandable. You know, that's kind of their position on it, but they've never felt like welcomed by America in that way. So I think it's sad, actually. It is. They never wanted to be a part of it.
Yeah, we're all sensitive. I mean, I'm sure they faced things that they should not have had to face. Well, yeah. And, you know, people, even slights, you know, and we call them slights because they're slight, can, could,
Go deep right as far as the hurt goes, but I'm sure they face much more than just slights. Yeah Well the real yeah, yes when they were right. I mean so unbelievable that they want they just don't talk about it Like they just very they're really stoic about it because to make it I mean conversation Topic is to make it more real my 1960s northern, New Jersey was the rule back then Willie Mays maybe the greatest baseball player ever and
had a lot of trouble staying in his home in San Francisco, your stomping ground, right? Yes, yes. Liberalist place in the world. Right. And in the 1960s, they didn't want Willie Mays living in their neighborhood. Okay, if you don't think things have just gone way better, you're just not being realistic. Yes. Doesn't mean we're done. Yes. But things are just so different. Yes, it's true.
It's true. And you still have an attachment to San Francisco? No. I mean, my parents moved. They don't live there anymore. Yeah, I hardly go. I go for shows sometimes, and then I'll go for like Sketch Fest, and I'll play music up there sometimes. But very rarely, not. And after, like. You got no sentimentality for your hometown? It's so different.
It's so different. Oh, the city. The city is so different. Why? The shit on the sidewalk? I think it's... Perfect for the dungeon. I've solved two problems in one. All my friends have left or died. What? From fentanyl. Left or died? They've left or died from fentanyl.
Fentanyl? Yeah. Why were all your friends on fentanyl? You know, like all of us like arty, queer, weirdo types, you know, all your friends like from childhood, they've all died. So or they've moved away because it's too expensive. No, my friends were Beaver and Wally. Yeah. They're not on fentanyl. Yeah.
Oh, that's horrible. So to me, to go back is actually very sad. But I go to play shows. I go to play music sometimes. But yeah, I haven't really spent meaningful time up there because it's either really, really rich people or unhoused people. It's very classified. It's so enormous. What is it with the fentanyl?
I mean, everybody must know, and I've heard it's in everything. I think so, yeah. Like, the first time I ever heard of it was Prince. Okay, that was 2016? Yeah. Never heard of it, I don't think. And then, oh, Prince, he got the good drugs, of course. Rock stars always get the good drugs, and that's why they very often OD. Yeah. You know, everybody wants to carry favor with the rock stars, so...
The latest, greatest, best. Now, that's okay if it's pot. You know, I mean, Jay-Z's pot is probably the best pot you could ever get. Oh, you know who had good pot? Killer Mike. Yes. We got high on your show. Yes. And then we were so high, but it was live. I got so paranoid. Yeah. Well, Mike and I have...
I've shared pot secrets for a long time, and I don't want to say it's a competition, but I think I could match up with whatever pot he can come up with. He's got wonderful weed, but yeah, I'm sure yours is great as well. I'm trying. Yeah, not bad. Well, actually, I'm trying to cut down, but...
I was never an everyday smoker. Yeah, you are quite moderate in all of your habits, though. You never really drank. You never really smoked. Oh, no, I did drink. But as Sean Penn once said, there's a big difference between a drunk and a heavy drinker. I was a heavy drinker. I say I drank Irishly. It's funny. The human body, it's like a defense in football. You've got to take what the defense will give you. And when my body would give me
30 drinks a week that I could handle, I took it. Yeah. And now it gives me, you know, I don't want to push it. I know it gives me three. That's good. Yeah. That's good. Well, good for who? I mean, I do miss drinking like a dead friend because it was just fun. And you could like, I mean, again, this is who was in my body era, but like you could keep the party going
Because I guess, well, first of all, there's a lot of sugar in the alcohol. Yeah. So you're like a five-year-old bouncing off the walls because you've had eight drinks. Yeah. That's a lot of sugar. And then, you know, whatever alcohol does to you. But, you know, if you're young and it gives you plenty of energy, it never made me unenergetic. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say that. Yeah. And pot's an up drug for me, too. Oh, good. Yeah. So, like, yeah, together they were like, oh, Jesus Christ, this is so much fun.
I mean, it would be nice to be able to do that, to like just for one night go back to that era where you would go to three or four different places in one night. Yeah, that to me is so... I couldn't. That's too much. It's just way too much. I'm telling you. That doesn't sound fun even. No, but it apparently was then. We do it. You did it? We do it, yeah. Remember when there was... That sounds like when there was an improv in Santa Monica. Yeah.
Right, it was. Yeah. That era. Well, young. We were young.
So do you have dates to plug? I do. I want to plug them for you. You please do. It would be my fucking honor. I'm on tour with my Live and Live-It tour. You are never not on tour. I'm always on tour. So I'm in Hawaii, Honolulu, November 30th, and the Royal Oak Music Theater in Royal Oak, Michigan, December 15th, and the Vic Theater in Chicago, December 16th.
I love it that we play some of the same places. Yeah! But I take oodles of time off between. You do not. 'Cause I forget how to do it. No you don't. I kinda do. That's ridiculous. But I like to just do it. I mean you can be rusty. Yeah, I hate being rusty. I do too. I do too but-- Do you do a lot of sets in town? No. No no no no. To me that would be like going back to my high school.
And also, I survive best, not survive, thrive best in a setting where the people have specifically come to see me. You know, I'm a kind of specific kind of comedian. I think I fucking entertain anybody. And you don't even have to be super political. Yeah. A lot of my act isn't political. And what is is very graspable. But, you know, it's amazing. People, you know, everybody has their taste. But...
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. These days, I'm playing to a more mixed audience politically. Like, there are conservatives in the audience that never used to be there.
I probably lost the woke people, which bothers me not at all. They never had a sense of humor. They're not about that. They're humorless buzzkills and all about purity. It's all the enemy of what comedy is, telling the truth. By the way, I often think of that bit you did in Hawaii about who was Tilda Swinton? Oh, yes. Your yellow phone.
Yes. What was that? I can't even remember. Tilda Swinton was doing something on Broadway. No, she... Tilda Swinton...
She emailed me because she played an Asian man in a movie. So she wanted to see if it was all right. And I didn't want to open the email because I was like, this is going to open a Wes Anderson virus on my computer. No way. No cookies, only macaron. But she reached out and she wanted to know, like, I play an Asian man in a film and I wanted to know if it was all right.
And I'm like, I'm not some kind of Asian notary public. Like, I can't fucking stamp your shit like, oh, till this week, the number one. Like, I can't make it okay. Like, she wanted to get a pass. These are the kind of people I just can't stand. I mean, really, I just...
The way they, like, every time they want to fight racism so badly, they always find their dumb asses right back where racism actually is. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, but it's also, like, really, like, this thing where I realize people are just understanding that whitewashing is not okay. Now we're figuring it out. Right.
for so long, like, allowed Asians to not exist in Hollywood. You know, like, we just were okay with this idea of, like, not seeing us, you know? But just looking, I mean, if a Martian came down and just watched television, he would not guess that the white people were the majority race, numbers-wise, which I'm not complaining about. I celebrate it. It was too...
too far the other way for too long. Yeah. But it is amazing how far that's come. Yeah, yeah. And good, turnabout is fair play. Yeah. But like, just let's say this is the year we're living in. Mm-hmm. It's, they, I mean, some, I think some shows are,
Like you can tell that they checked all the boxes before they even wrote the script. It can go too far. I mean, you know, you do work the smaller clubs like when you're not. Okay, so I don't, but the stories I've heard from comics is a lot of paranoia about if I say something and then somebody in the audience tweets it because, again, this is an audience of like potluck comedy clubs now.
For folks who don't remember or know, that's where we started. And you're saying you're a big star. You play these places. The places you just read off are big theaters, and you make good, great money. But you go back to the clubs to try stuff out. Yeah. OK. So the clubs are potluck. It's like people go, and they're not your fan necessarily. They'll be your fans. They'll be there, but it won't be a
room full of Margaret Cho fans. It'll be a room full of comedy fans. And, oh, Margaret Cho's here tonight. Okay, I love her. Or, eh, she's okay. Whatever. But mixed. So you can't really depend on them to be, like, behind you. And some of them, of course, in this day and age, it's just about, oh, I'm
I can tweet that and get a lot of comments and likes because I'm fighting some bad person who said something bad on stage that's unacceptable and doesn't go along with the one true opinion. Yeah.
Yeah. That's some fucking bullshit that I am, thank Jesus, I did not have to live through. Yeah. That is, well, it's something that I guess it makes you really think hard about like everything that you say so much more, you know? Which is the enemy of comedy. Right.
Right, it's tough. And we have to always be thinking about, oh, is this over the line and going to get tattled on? Well, your job is to be on that line and sometimes to be a little over. Yeah. Sometimes it's good to go over. Yes. I mean, then you'll know where it is. Right. It's hard, though. It's very hard. Right, because, see, you'll survive it because, you know, you've been around. You're a woman. You're not white, you know. Right.
That's a saying. But like some 25-year-old kid who's starting out and he doesn't, you know, really understand what he's trying to navigate this between. What can I say that's funny and edgy? I want to be edgy. I don't want to be a boring comic, but I don't want to get canceled. You know, no one's on his side yet. Yeah. So he just goes. Remember that guy who was
Supposed to be on Saturday Night Live. Now, I don't even know who this person is. I never knew before this story. I don't know after because they canceled him completely. I don't remember his name. Shane Gillis. He's funny. He's really funny. Right. Shane Gillis. Yeah, he's great. And he did some, oh, about Asians. Yeah. He did some joke and he was just like, okay, we don't know who you are and sorry, but it's just easier to just kill you off. I'm sure they got other people waiting to do that show.
Do you remember what the joke was or what the controversy? I don't know. I met him in a Zoom with Doug Stanhope, who's a good friend of mine. And you say he is funny. Yeah, he's really funny. Shane is funny. So what do you think about that? I think that it's just you find your place, though. You find your way. No, but them just like...
defenstrating him because he was about to go on SNL. Yeah. They went back. I don't think he said it at the time. I think they went back. Yeah. As they often do. Let's go. Let's root through. Yeah. What did you say in high school? Yeah. It's too bad because, you know, that sort of
thing happens all the time now for everyone. You know, you're like, if you're very famous too, like people will sort of look back through everything that you've done. It's like this sort of scrutiny culture as well. So it's tough. We don't have to like it, do we? We don't have to think it's a good thing, do we? I don't think we can do anything about it. Like it's kind of like a, it's just the way that exists and also that the internet is kind of forever. So everything that you sort of did in the past is judged by the law of today. That's very tough.
Do you worry about it? Well, I think if you are thoughtful as a comic, you should be able to get through it. Like, you should be able to wind your way around it. It's more about your skill and a testament to your skill to get through it, I think. That is one valid way to look at it. I'm not sure I can sign on to that 100%. I get what you're saying.
We need to tread the ridge between truth and insult with the skill of a mountain goat. It's got to be the, you know, it's got to be really, you have to be really precise in what you're doing. But it's, yes, it's really tough. So, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I'm just glad that I am not starting out. Because, like, you know, the longer you're around, the more people, you know,
You gather fans and they think, okay, this guy has done some good work. This lady has really been state-of-the-art in stand-up and pushing envelopes and stuff. I mean you. And so we might give them the benefit of a doubt. But when you're starting out, you're just cannon fodder. And I mean, it's funny. I have fond memories of my...
Club days when I was just starting out, but I know they were really rough. Mm-hmm I mean, it's it's it's it was hard in a different way. I think the first year is like the hardest It's so hard the first year right? It's so hard cuz you're like, what am I even doing? What are you doing? And it's not going well, of course and then you try to be somebody else you're trying to act like you're you're fumping around for a persona identity So I was gonna try to be Paula Poundstone who is the best? I
Paula Poundstone is a great comic. The best. Yes. Oh, so funny. So, you know, I thought, oh, I'm going to be her. I'll be like, you know, I'm trying to figure out who I'm going to. I'll be like Judy Tanuta. I'm going to be like, you know. I'm a good comic. Also great, you know. But the new people now are so, I don't know, like they give me a lot of excitement around what's happening. See, I'm so divorced from that whole scene.
It's fun. So fun. Especially the Asian people like Sabrina Wu and Jenny Yang and Atsuko Okatsuka. And it's like they're just geniuses. Sherry Cola and there's so many wonderful. Ali Wong, amazing. Bowen Yang, who is also in us. Yeah.
So many amazing. He's great. Joel Kim Booster. Beautiful. They're not starting out because they've been around for a few years, but they're so young and they're so ready. So that's what makes me really excited about comedy. So you'd be happy just doing this until you drop dead? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And other things will come along and you'll do other projects, but...
I want to do stand-up for... Right, till you drop. Yeah, for life. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that to me is the goal. I mean, I would love to do more TV and movies and things like that, but I love stand-up. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I... Don't you think you'll always do it? I mean, it's been 40 years, so... You know, I feel like if I was going to drop it, I would have done it by now. Yeah. I mean, you never know. I mean, look...
Age hasn't really caught up to me yet, but, you know, I'm not immortal. Although, AI. I tell you, we have a guy on Real Time Friday who's, we were talking about AI, so I've been reading about AI all week. Do you know how fucking scary this shit is? Mm-hmm. I don't even think you do. I don't. I mean, I know a little bit about it. It's like we're already probably, the cat is so out of the bag. And it, like, the way it's,
moving it moves exponentially I mean it's like every science fiction movie where the alien gets on the plane I mean the spaceship and they're like you know captain it's learning at an alarming rate yeah the next thing you know get those uh things that shoot fire that'll kill this brilliant but this is like I mean I just I don't know we could not make it to Christmas I mean this is
I mean, Musk, he's cuckoo about a lot of shit, but boy, he was right about this before anybody. He was the one saying AI, existential threat, this could wipe out humanity. I mean, it's scary. Yeah. And they don't understand it. It's already passed where we understand why and what it's doing. Mm-hmm.
You know, like sometimes it hallucinates, just makes up shit. Yeah. I mean, I think we're really close to, I can't do that, Dave. Mm-hmm.
And then what? What do we do? It's too late. I don't know. But I don't want to live in that world. I mean, there's a lot of this world with everything on screens I don't want to live with. Yeah, it's true. Are you a, what's your, you know, you're not like a phone addicted, are you? I am pretty much. You are? I have an intense relationship with it that is, I'm trying to get away from.
screens, you know, with, with like, so you're on it all day. Like you look at, what are you, what are you looking on? I think Tik Tok. Tik Tok is really all encompassing. Yeah. Tik Tok is really, it's, um, I only get dogs. I love, I love everything. I do a lot of fashion, a lot of gay stuff, a lot of sex stuff, a lot of food.
And then news. So you're talking about your own TikTok presence? My feed, yeah. My feed. I mean, just watching it. And I'll put a little bit of content out there, but it's mostly like I'm just watching it. So it's quite, I mean, I try to lengthen my attention span by watching movies in between looking at TikTok.
So I'll like put it down and watch a David Lean film. You know, like I'll put it down and I'll watch Great Expectations. All the way through? All the way through.
Like, I have to, I'm going to watch Paths of Glory today because I spent a lot of time on TikTok. People think I'm crazy, but I almost never watch a movie. If I went to the theater, I would. But at home, all the way through. And people say, how can you do it? I said, do you read a book all at once? You read two chapters and you put it down. Right. And you read two more the next night. Yeah. You know, I'm making my way through Mission Impossible now. Yeah. I'm enjoying it, but I don't have to swallow it all at once. No, you can't.
You can watch one at your pace. Yeah. So, well, I hope you're happy. I am happy. You are? You feel like this is a good time of your life? Yes, the best time. You know what? I see it in your face. Yeah. You look very at ease. I am. And in a happy place, more than you were in Hawaii. Yes, very much so. I'm feeling very good. I feel like when you were in Hawaii...
Were you coming out of an un-sober period or something? Yes. Well, I was not sober for a long time, and then when I was in Hawaii, I was sober, and now I've been sober since then. Right. So I'm doing good. Like, I remember you were like, oh, everyone's partying, and you didn't want to, like... No. You know, be tempted and stuff. Yeah. But I feel very good. So you're completely sober? Yep. Boy, that must suck. No. No, I'm kidding. Not really. Oh, I did so much drugs that it feels like I'm high now when I'm sober.
Because when you do that much drugs, then, because I'm like a really, I overdo things. See, that's the thing you said before. I do things in moderation, or I try, you know. I did drink like an Irishman for too long, but it never tipped over into, like, you know, affecting my, I mean, obviously, it's
Could my career have gone better? Yes, because I probably was like a drunken idiot at parties in 1997. Like pissed off half the press or something. But, you know, you got to live your life in the stages you live in. It's silly to look back and be like, oh, boy, I'm brooding about what a dumb. Yeah, you were dumber. You weren't the person you would become, you know.
I mean, for men, that happens much later. I feel like we mature much, much, much slower. Yeah, yeah. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Good. All right. Well, I love seeing you. I love to see you. And I am so flattered you'd come here and stop. I know you're busy and doing a million things, and so I hope I don't always have to work when I see you, but...
So be it. We should work together on that. We should. I would love that. Thank you, honey. Thank you. Okay. Oh, the dog. I forgot about the dog. Remember her? You are so well-behaved. She's incredible. Love.