Lisa Kudrow | Club Random with Bill Maher
01:18:51 Share

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.com slash results.

LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Oh, wait. We're not supposed to hug because of the mics. Can you still hear it? And the Omicron. I said, oh, no, I don't hug because of Omicron. Oh, I have none of that. And then I forgot because I saw it. I'm full of monkey pox. No, that's the old Dean Martin show where he didn't know who the guest was. Do you remember that? No. You don't? You don't remember the Dean Martin show? No. Really? Really. You're too young for that? Well, I might be a little.

Unless my parents watched it. I don't think they did. I bet you your mother did. My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin in that show. He was a very attractive guy. Yeah. And of course, that character he played, sort of a character who was like drunk. He really wasn't drunk. But he did really. Oh, he really wasn't ever. No. Really? But he really did only show up for the taping. So he had these three broads called the gold diggers.

Something you would never... Wait, no, that sounds familiar. Yes. And they would lead him, literally lead him and prop him up in front of the card, which he would read, and fuck up, which made it funnier. Right, right, right. You know? And there was one section of the show where he...

He didn't, he walked, it was at the piano with this piano guy tinkling and it was like, and the door would open. I'd tell if it's Geraldine or if it's Sammy Davis. He had no idea. I really think that was true. I did know, I mean, I had been asking from the beginning. I said, if I could get you here, what hipper person for this little hipper place? What? Really? You didn't, why? Why would you think I wouldn't want you...

I mean, I would never want anyone here, first of all, in my house, who I didn't adore. Oh, my God. I'm so happy to hear that. Well, why did you come? I feel like I'm just a big disappointment. What disappointment? No, because I'm in awe of you. Oh. I adore you. See, that's why. But I don't assume it's a two-way street. Of course. I live in the real world. Oh, oh.

No, this is my home. This is, I mean, I don't know. This is only for fun. Yeah. This whole thing. I mean, I did spend... Yeah, are you liking it? Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not going to lie. I spent quite a bit of money so that we could, you know, set this place. I mean, it's almost like a reality show combined with a podcast. But that's the way I wanted it, so that we could have, you know, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts and I find them...

Some are great, but there's a big penis mic in your face. I haven't done that one.

You know what I mean? There's a giant-- I've done the one with the big flower in your face. What's that? My vagina. Yeah, I've seen those too. I went too far. I went too out of obvious-- I wanted just to be like the way I really am, except there's no music. That always-- of course, we can't while we're talking. But it just feels like there is something missing. And everything else feels right. It's just us. There's nobody else in the room.

There's liquor and these clove cigarettes. I don't know what they're putting in these things, but let me tell you. It's too bad you're not allowed to know. No. That's the surprise. Well, cloves. I know you're a history buff. Do you know anything about the history of cloves? No. Well, make it up. Me? Make it up? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, tobacco was for export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke it. Isn't that interesting? But that sounded possible, right? So...

Incredibly real. Like, if I had not set it up like Make It Up, I would have just gone with it. I could make up anything. Yeah. Many of us could, you know. When the kids feel bad about not knowing shit, I always try to comfort them by saying, you know, we all don't know, like, I mean, when you think of the infinite amount of things that you could possibly know in this world.

Even the smartest person does not even know 0.1%. Right. Yeah. We're almost fully ignorant of everything. What we, you know, obviously some people more than others. No, and then the things you learn you don't remember. So that's too bad. That's true, too. That part's really too bad. I think that has something to do with the clothes.

I don't know. I can't make a direct correlation. Well, you know, now we'll know they're doing studies with clothes and cognition. Can I make you a drink? No, I have water. That's all you want? Yeah. I know it's 5 o'clock, so it's okay. It's 5 o'clock somewhere. Oh, wait, here. Are you abstemious? Yeah, I don't drink a lot.

I mean, you said abstemious, so I thought, okay. Oh, abstemious. Abstaining? Abstaneous, you said? Abstemious. Doesn't that mean you, yeah, you're... Are you? No. With drinking, the only time I drink really is here. Oh, really? Yes. I used to drink, you know, like an Irishman. I was never a drunk, although I certainly have been drunk many times, but...

I drank Irishly, you know, which is not good for your liver, I'm sure. Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to be, look like Ted Kennedy. You know, so I, you know, especially now that he's dead, but even before, you know, that kind of like... No, it takes a toll. Especially if you're Irish. Really? Well, sure, because you're lighter. Yeah. You know, it's like the opposite of black, don't crack. No, but European... Cracks the most. European...

All Europeans are pretty white. But more so the... The Irish. Well, like the beautiful people of the Nordic countries somehow are even further north, but they have that beautiful olive skin, usually. They do? Yes.

Olive? Yes. Wait, why doesn't that sound even a little bit right to me? You mean the, like, blonde Scandinavian people? Yes, Scandinavian, of course. They don't look like the Gaelic people, my people. They're not ruddy. Wait a minute. What's ruddy? What is ruddy? What's ruddy? Ruddy is red. Red is... That's what I thought. Well, that's... Think of somebody like...

You know... - Ted Kennedy. Yeah. - Right. - I'll throw a name out. - But not Jack Kennedy. He looked more... - Well, he had makeup. - Always? He was just a good-looking guy. - Yeah. - It's funny how in families sometimes there's just, you know, siblings and one of them is the good-looking one. - Yeah. - You know, Bobby... - Well, he was good-looking. - Not like Jack.

He was a little... Was he that good looking though? He was just, he was sexier because he was grittier. I guess. Not my type. I think that's not your type. No. A Jack Kennedy? No. But a Bobby Kennedy. Was a little cuter to me. Physically cuter? Yeah. See, most people would say not that. They would say the reverse. Right. And I even think that you're, you know, as a woman who are deeper and feel things on a deeper level. Well, it's true, especially in this subject.

It's like the physical part is not as important to you. I think something about Bobby Kennedy is getting to you in your deep woman way. Maybe. But here, I misled. I was just comparing. But none of the Kennedys are my type. None of the Kennedys? No. No. Because of their look or because of their actions? Their teeth. Their teeth? Yeah.

No. Yeah. What? Yeah. What's wrong with their teeth? I don't know. That's the British who have the bad teeth. No, it's not that they had bad teeth, but I didn't like their teeth.

I just didn't like it. I don't... Uh-uh. No. Mm-mm. They all looked like... And did this inflect... I mean, infect your view of their politics? No. No. Well, I was... Well, I was... You wouldn't not vote for someone who gets their teeth, Lisa Kudrow, would you? Well, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth. No, but I... No, but I was born when...

John Kennedy was killed. 63? Yeah. I was seven, yeah. And I was five when Bobby Kennedy was killed. So, no, no. I mean, I didn't have politics about them. But my parents were huge fans. So were mine. Yeah. But this was my father, again, Irish, Catholic, and, you know, I mean... And my father... My grandfather had a full brogue. Really? Yes. Oh, he was from...

No, but he was, I guess, second generation. Raised with everybody, yeah. But this is, I mean, a man I never met. But it's funny, if I had done your show instead of Skip Gates' show, we would have already. You did? Did I not see it? I watch all of the shows. I guess I don't remember them. When did you do it? I would say four years ago. Oh, shoot. Something like that. I'll re-watch it. Look, I said, I'll re-watch it. I mean, but your show was fantastic. I mean, it's a great idea for a show.

And the way you make it into a... I wish it were my idea. As a history major, I appreciate that. Oh, you're a history major. I was in college. Yeah. You know. That's a lot more history than...

Oh, yeah. Anyone learns in high school, right? I love history, and I love when you weave it in. Yeah. No, because that's why I loved this show, because it's history, but it's the personal stories that drive it home. It's the actual effects of history. Like, why can't they teach it? But when I did his show, my genealogy...

For Skip, I mean, the star of it was my grandfather, who, again, I never met. But he was a baller. He was a macho guy. He ran the Boatsman's Union. Oh.

in New Jersey and New York, you know, the circle day line of the stuff that went around Manhattan. And this is in the days when the Irish ran New York. Right. Every cop, every fireman, you know, Officer Mike. And this isn't part of the Teamsters because that's... No, no, that's truck. It's nautical. Yes, it's nautical. Okay. And it was also what happened, I guess, on the ports because he had a headline from 1920 saying,

And it was my grandfather called a strike and was brought up to the White House because it had to be settled because this was the port of New York. Oh, yeah. But he was a union captain who got in the days when, I mean, they, what, what?

what unions had to fight for back then was like you know yeah we would like a 14-hour work day and we're not and you could only whip them if that you know it was just crazy what he had to fight you don't get to choose who we marry yeah right yeah crazy yeah so that was my grandfather wow william marr also my i would have been william marr iii if i had been confirmed uh

In the Catholic Church, because I would have been William Aloysius Marr. That was my grandfather's name and my father's name, and I was supposed to be William Aloysius Marr. But you get your middle name, your confirmation, the Catholics. Oh. And I never made it that far. I didn't know that. Yeah. But you're still...

That's not your given name, like the birth certificate? I have no middle name. Oh, you don't have to wait. You're supposed to get it at 13 when you're confirmed. That's a big thing in the Catholic Church. At 7, you have your first communion. That traumatized me like I can't even tell you. And then 13, you're confirmed. I don't know. It's sort of like the bar mitzvah. Why did it traumatize you?

What? You know, nuns? Fucking sadists? Oh, they were? Well, of course. Well, some of them are nice, I assume. On Trouble with Angels, they were really nice. But, I mean... Well, nuns are married to Christ, and apparently he's not putting out. Okay. Because they have a kind of a...

anger issues that you only get when you've never been late. I don't know what it was, and I was seven years old. All I know is one of them one day, for example, this one sticks in my mind, said, you know, we're in the church and they're doing their shit up there and

I guess I was like, you know. And she said, the boy who's slumping is going to go to hell. Oh, wow. They did shit like that. Wait a minute. Okay, but I thought your mom is Jewish. Right. That I never even knew until I was 13 because I was so traumatized by going to church that

I didn't even think, why doesn't mom come? I don't know. She just never does. It never crossed my mind to ask. I just wanted to get out of it. But I thought it was tricky for a Catholic to marry a Jew. It was. So how did that all happen? Especially in 1951 when they did it. It was like an interracial marriage, not even today, like 20 years ago. Yeah. Well, it was in the 60s, too. And even into the 70s, it was sort of starting to get like, wow. Did you watch Mad Men? Yeah. Remember the first season or second season?

There was a plot line of he goes out with the girl from the Jewish department store. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they had their own, Jews had their own department store? Or owned a very successful department store. Right, but I mean, like, I think Gimbel's...

Yeah. The real Gimbels was that. Yeah. I think in a day when... Oh, so the Jews would have a place to shop? Yes. Well, just the idea that this was the early 60s and Gentiles and Jews shopped separately in departments. Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Wait, I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure, history major? I'm not sure that a Jew couldn't walk into... Macy's. Macy's. I guess so, yes. And Bloomsdale. Yes, but...

It seemed to me like he was, of course, cheating on his wife, as he always was. Right. But also he was sort of like crossing into a different world is the way they sort of presented it. Right. And I think people don't realize how much Jew and Gentile, you know, I mean, when Kennedy ran in 60, it was a big deal that he was Catholic. Right. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. This country is always...

Changing as people are always changing and growing. And getting used to each other's differences. Progressing. These people who cannot help themselves from looking backward and saying, you know what, you people were so benighted back then. You know what, if you had lived back then with us, you would have been the same asshole. Right.

History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, "What a dick I was at eight." Yeah. Ugh! I can't believe I spent all that time thinking about baseball cards. Dumbass. You know, it's childish. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

Yeah, but what's childish? But what part's childish? The childish part is feeling superior. Oh, well, yeah. You are woker now. But it's not you are better. You just are living in a different time. Right. You would have been just like us. Yes. We all wore big hair in the 80s. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know if my hair was that big, but because, you know, I wasn't that in step. But yeah. No, no. It's true. You're not in step. You mean you were. With big hair. No, but in step in general, you were an outsider, you're saying? I was a little, yeah, a little moody, you know. I was, yeah, a little bit. Moody? You know, in the 80s.

Yeah, starting Groundlings and figuring out my comedic voice and all of that was the most important thing ever. So that's all I was thinking about. I really didn't want to look like absolutely everybody else because I didn't think I'd do well if I was trying to. No, but getting back to what you were saying, though,

Because I was talking about this, like, in the context of who do you think you are? Because we're going to be on soon. And I was saying, you know...

I think it's really important to know our history and understand how it informed how our society worked and what was tolerated. You know, people thought it was perfectly okay to own another human being. You know, that's... But, you know, let's have some context to that. They thought that everywhere in the world.

Yeah, but not 30 years after everywhere else in the world stopped doing it in the South. You're talking about America. And in America in the South, they're still doing it. We have brought up the rear on a number of issues. Yeah. That's one of them. 80 countries, I think, have had a woman leader. Oh, mm-hmm. We have not. Universal health care, most of the big boy countries have a much better system. Yes. Nothing is perfect in that realm. Right.

And don't get me started on health. But remember when medicine wasn't big business? Because that, in the 70s, it wasn't. It was still like the healing arts. Well, we... I mean, health care is a mess in this country for...

many reasons, but the top two probably would be, for me, yes, the corporate element of it. The fact that a hospital is run very much like an airline. They don't want any empty seats on an airplane, and they don't want any empty beds. That's why when there's a crisis, they're overrun. They should have excess space, but that would hurt the bottom line. So that's huge. And the other huge thing, I think, is that the people...

The people are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with. And that is absolutely something I lay at the doorstep of the medical establishment, who doesn't have the balls to tell them what they should and shouldn't do. And of course, how cozy the pharmaceutical industry is with the medical industry. And I mean, I'm not saying it's all corruption. I mean, obviously, COVID was a real thing. And I have many qualms about how we handled it. But

I mean, that's not anybody's fault, but if the population wasn't so fundamentally unhealthy to begin with,

It would not have devastated this country the way it did. We had a worse outcome than any other country. Oh, we did? Yes. It turns out that we did proportionally? I think so. Yeah. I mean, I seem to remember that headline a couple of months ago. I mean, I'm sure there are variations and per capita and blah, blah, blah. But, I mean, it was over a million people. And, of course, that's a...

a fuzzy stat also because they don't really make any differentiation between dying of covet and dying with coven right and anyone with medical sophistication understands that everything in medicine is a combination of factors we are supported by wine enthusiasts you know the old saying wine women in song i used to say in my stand-up act that out of the three if you had to lose one song

I love music, but yes, song would have to go. You definitely can't lose wine, because there's nothing like a nice glass of wine with friends, especially in the summer. But the one thing that can ruin that good time is the summer heat, because it can spoil your wine if it's not properly stored. So now it's the time to get those bottles out of boxes or off your countertops and protect them with a wine fridge from wine enthusiasts.

Wine Enthusiast designs and offers the largest selection of wine coolers for every drinker, every budget and every size collection, from 6 to 600 bottles. Plus, expert wine storage consultants are available by phone to help you find the right fit for all your needs. Wine Enthusiast is the premier destination for the wine lifestyle, offering an incredible selection of unique wine accessories, glassware, furniture, wine storage, gifts and more.

I love wine enthusiasts, and I'm not just saying that because they sent some amazing custom club random glassware for me and my guests to use.

Visit WineEnthusiast.com or text the code RANDOM to 511511 to check out all of Wine Enthusiast's summer savings. Text RANDOM to 511511. Text RANDOM to 511511 today. Certain exclusions may apply. You may receive up to one additional text. Text fees may apply. Text STOP to opt out.

Hey, remember the old Got Milk ads? Well, times have changed and we are much more open as a society. So Got Milk has morphed into Got Bush. And you definitely do if you haven't tried the best products from our sponsor today, Manscaped.

Taking control of your personal area is important. Whether you're a college kid or single and on the prowl or a suburban dad, it's a fact. Seventies Bush on guys doesn't fly anymore, even if you're in your seventies. And for guys, it's important to have the cleanest nutsack in the cul-de-sac.

Save big and be the most hygienic version of yourself by using our discount code RANDOM for 20% off and free shipping at manscaped.com. Manscaped is dedicated to helping you level up your full-body grooming game.

The grooming package that's the best is the Performance Package 4.0. Inside the package is the Lawn Mower 4.0. This electric trimmer is a bush's worst nightmare. It's like having a personal gardener in your pants. This trimmer is designed to reduce grooming accidents thanks to a ceramic blade and advanced skin-safe technology. No need for night vision goggles. This trimmer has an LED light to allow you to mow the lawn in the dark.

And don't stop there. The second best tool in the Performance Package is the Weed Whacker, the unwanted nose and ear hair trimmer. Is any hair there ever wanted?

With a performance package purchase, you get two free gifts, the Shed Travel Bag and the patented high-performance reduced chafing Manscaped boxers. They have a bunch of other products on their website to help you maximize your confidence and grooming game. Get 20% off plus free shipping with our code RANDOM at manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscaped.com and use our code RANDOM.

I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine, like a doctor who's practicing personalized medicine. So that not just going by...

And looking into what else about your physical makeup and your biology might be contributing to whatever symptoms or what's going on instead of just treating the symptoms. Or calling it this disease, not that syndrome because there's other things informing it.

I mean, that's a lot of holistic medicine. Right. What I would call holistic medicine. Right. Well, now they're calling it personalized. Alternative. Because they don't want to sound like it. Right. They don't want to sound like hippies. Right. That word, right. That's quack stuff. Right. You're not allowed to say that. But it's not. I mean, some of it is. I'll tell you an interesting thing about, and I have had a holistic doctor who I think changed my life as much as anybody, and I'm very grateful. He changed.

absolutely knows that I don't agree with everything. Yeah. And I also definitely want a MD doctor also. I think you need both to balance. Yeah. Well, you might get more information too that you can decide about. But so like, you know, I started to get into it. This is like almost 20 years ago. And, you know, everything is super,

Which I totally get that. I remember the first time we went out socially, there was one restaurant in all of LA he would go to that was pure enough. Wait, who would? This is my holistic doctor. Oh, okay. So, like, and you know, he just wouldn't have anything, you know, no bread, no, like, down the line. Natural, natural, natural. No antibiotics, of course. No pharmaceuticals. No this, no that. No sugar. Nothing. Nothing.

But then, very big on colonics. Oh. Which may or may not. I remember that trend. I don't think it's a trend. But I...

Point being, if you're like natural, natural, natural, when you think about sticking water up your ass, the word that comes to mind is not natural. It's not like if I was just standing around with a garden hose in my hand, I would absentmindedly just stick it up my ass. So for everything to be natural, natural, natural, and also stick water up your ass. Right.

No, it's not something that naturally occurs. Right. But it also might be very good for you. I don't know if it's really good for you. Nobody knows anything for sure in medicine. Thank you. Nobody. I'm always trying to push this point. Yes. Just, you know what?

I accept where we are. I have to. What could I do else? We're in the year 2022. Yes. In 2052, they're not going to look back and go, boy, in 2022, we pretty much had it all figured out medically, didn't we? We were just crossing the T's and dotting the S. They're going to do what they do every seven years, which is, yeah, we were wrong about that. That's what I always say. Just don't give me the attitude of just do what we say because when have we ever been wrong? Right.

All the time. All the time. And it's not mostly your fault? It's just, again, like the year we live in. No, but just be honest. Be honest. We don't really know. Right. But what's recommended, and there are some studies that show this might work, there are associative studies, not cause and effect, so we can't know absolutely.

But here's all I have to offer. Yeah, go for it. But don't say, like they did, no, honey, for your pregnancy, you need to take DES. For, you know, you're pregnant and you're nauseous, so you'll just take DES. What's DES? Estrogen. Right. That caused all kinds of reproductive problems in the kids that were born. Did you take it? No. No, not me. I'm in my mom's generation, your mom's generation. And...

You know, I do know a lot of people who have reproductive problems because of it. But they gave it to all the women back then? No, but they were offering it a lot. Right. Just like in the 20s, they were offering women, offering, insisting, yeah, you need some opium. I mean, we have to give you because you're hysterical. You're going through the change and you're hysterical. Or you just had a baby, so you're hysterical. Right.

And yet all these people, it's the same crisis we're having. And we had it in the 20s. It all happened. And then the government made it illegal. And they went to heroin. You have the exact same problem. We just repeated history.

And in 100 years, this will be the 20s that they're talking about. In the same attitude that we're talking about the 1920s. Things will seem incredibly primitive in their thinking and just very wrong. I mean, simple things like they very often misdiagnose fungal infections for bacterial infections. They treat everything with antibiotics. First of all, there's a lot of money in it.

But it's also just where, like, they're not, I'm not saying they're trying to be corrupt. It's just like. Right, right. Well, I don't know. You know, some of it is. Someone's trying to make money. Well, yes. And also. But the doctors are just trying to give you the best information they have. Yes. And also they listen to the patients too much, you know.

Ask your doctor. We're only one of two countries that has direct-to-consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals. So you should never be like, hey, doc, can I get some of that? Sure, the cute rep from the pharmaceutical company was by this afternoon, and she strutted her ass in here and winked at me, and I bought a whole parcel of this, and they're taking me on this cruise in a couple of months. You know, that shit goes on with doctors. I know. And it's very easy just to pass out

And antibiotics and Vicodin, and especially if you're at one of these low-rent... You know, I certainly have heard the stories from people who go to the one on the corner in the, you know, urgent care. And it's like I've heard harrowing stories, just terrible decisions that these people are making because they don't care. They're not really your doctor. Right. You know? I mean, it's like I know my mechanic better than they... Mm-hmm. You know? So...

Look at me. Uh-huh. I don't. I don't know anyone. You just did like a you right there. You did that like you were reading a line. That's why you're so good. Thanks. I was going to say disingenuous. No, your line. I've never seen you in anything where you didn't kill it. Thank you. It's so funny the way you like...

You know, you never seem to want to be out front. You just want to, like, be the one who steals it, and you always do. Oh, I just want to be the one who steals it. That would be funny. That's what I tell my agents. No, just find me something where I can steal it. Oh. Yeah. And I don't know when the last time I saw you, but because, you know, these clothes. But, like, if I never told you...

how big a fan I was of the comeback. Oh, you are? Today would be the time. Really? We never talked about that? I don't think so. I don't know. I have secondary Clove issues. And the reboot.

Oh, thank you. I'm most proud of that than anything. You should be. That was a genius show. Thank you. And I am not an easy complimenter, and I don't bullshit. That's why I don't have people who I don't like, because I'm not a good liar. Yeah. So I can't, like, pretend, you know, that I'm really into, you know, Danny Bonaduce. I'm sorry, Danny, if you're listening. Actually, I'd love to have you on. Of course, I have to say that. I like Danny Bonaduce. I do, of course.

God damn it, why can't we get him on this show? But the comeback was, yeah, that was just... Thanks. I mean, I saw them all multiple times. Really? Yes. Yeah. Thanks. Just everybody was... You know that the actor, I don't know his name, I don't think I ever did, who played the...

heavy set writer, producer who was mean to you. Yeah. Lance. Yeah, he's on Young Sheldon. He plays the father. Oh, okay. Yeah, he finally, you know, people thought, stop thinking he's really mean.

I was just going to say. Barber. He was so good. And there was something about that show that was so real. And, of course, I lived that world of sitcoms, too. Uh-huh. You know, but it wasn't that. I mean, it is universal. But were you on writing staffs, too? No. No. Not on sitcoms. No. No. So I know that tension with the writing, especially when you're a comedian, and they kind of hired you...

For to be funny and they did use a lot of I was on that show Sarah. Do you remember that with Geena Davis? Oh 1985 yeah, not that much before you ran your run years. Yeah 85 94 we started right but wait, so they would they would encourage you to pitch lines and Alternatives and stuff absolutely and they used him and

Yeah, sure. I mean, it made their job easier. But they also could be insulted. I do appreciate that, though, when they do a lot. That means that they really do want the best show. So it doesn't matter where it comes from. Because I think it's a bigger disaster when their ego gets in the way of wherever the great line comes from. What do you care? But I was 28 and stupid. And this is my first job. And I didn't sometimes get it.

Like one time I remember the first run through, we always, you know, the Mondays, I remember that whole schedule. The read through. Right. And then the first time they see it on its feet, what they wrote, their first draft. Yeah. And like I had changed lines. And I remember Gary David Goldberg saying to me, could we hear ours once? Yeah. You know, before you tell me it's shit. I was told that too. Could we hear ours first? Right. But there's...

But they're right. It's fair enough. They work so hard. Exactly. Give them their thing and then pitch your thing. That's amazing. It's easy courtesy. It's easy. That's why it sucks being young. There's good reasons why it's great. Well, young, you're trying to prove yourself. And you're stupid.

And you're stupid. That was just stupid. And impatient. It was just fucking stupid. And it's just, I gotta, no, you gotta know that I've got good ideas. Right. Before you, I don't have the opportunity to tell you. No. You don't know that I do. Yeah, it's stupid. Gary David Goldberg. It's okay. Who got that show canceled because he had a shoving match with Brandon Tartikoff at a taping. Oh. So he could be volatile. And I could have set him off. And he was always nice to me. He never like,

for whatever reason, sometimes you're so young and dumb that they know that they can't really hold it against you because it's like blaming the dog, you know? Yeah, or they don't care. Which is worse. He cared, but yeah, that show got canceled when there was this shoving match. Can you believe that? He was, at the time, one of the most powerful producers in television. But was it a good show?

You know, it was what a sitcom in the 80s was. I think it was a little above average. It did pretty well in the ratings. Oh, wow. So that is what got it. You know, Gina was coming off a couple of movies. She was a very rising. Yeah. Alfre Woodard. Oh, my God. And Brunson Pinchot were the other three. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. Ah.

They felt after like half the episodes we needed a boss. Oh. So then they brought in a boss figure. You know how they thought the networks, those kind of notes. Yeah, they made friends get an adult. Yeah.

We're just children. And they have to like discipline. We need someone. Hire someone to play the part of someone who keeps us in order. Right. So God bless Martin and David. Like, all right, we'll try. But yeah. Yeah. And there was a neighbor with a kid so they could get a kid in the show.

But that was sort of shoehorned in. Because kids always make shows fly. You had to. Well, I guess they did because for the longest time, didn't every show have to have a kid? I remember. Yeah, but you have to have great kids. I mean, Roseanne had great kids. Sarah Gilbert was so great. Yeah. They were great, those kids. They were really, truly funny.

I remember after I did that sitcom, and then I did one on Showtime called Hard Knocks. Oh, that sounds familiar. And then I did one with Sam Kinison in 1990. Really? Yeah, it was very short-lived, and he was on heroin, so it didn't really work. Shoot. Should have been called Shoot.

God rest his soul. But I remember there was also a period there, like, 89, 90, 91, when I was, like, I'd done a few of these sitcoms, so I was, like, pitching. I was at that point where you pitch your own sometimes. And, you know, they would get the notes. And I had a deal with Fox. I remember I went to the...

something they had like where they were showing the advertisers their new shows or some shit yeah the upfronts yeah but it wasn't must have been like some of them weren't picked up yet okay this was one of them would you buy ads for this right was one of those and apparently they were like no we would not we would not sell toothpaste it was called bill gets a life and really i i couldn't make that up and uh

Yeah, they were like, there was that, you need a kid discussion. For you? Yes. For Bill Gets a Life? Bill Maher needs a kid in the show. It was just like, we work for the network. They're paying us. We have to pretend we know something and are doing something. Wait, did you write it too? Yeah. Did you write the pilot?

I worked... Gary Shandling had a production deal. Yeah. And we had the same manager, and so we worked on it together, the pilot. Okay. And then...

I mean, I wrote a bunch of other episodes just hoping they would pick it up, but they didn't. But, of course, it was never my calling, as it was yours to act. Yeah, well, well. Do you know, Gary Shandling, I was so in awe of Gary Shandling, of course. And I was brought in to audition for Larry Sanders.

before it was on the pilot. And I was so excited. Janine Garofalo's role. Yeah, I don't remember the character's name. And, you know, I came in and I was just sort of being me. And I wish I could remember exactly. I think this was it. He said, Gary said, so we're going to read this together. Okay.

And he was being funny, which was funny. Oh. And I just said, oh, okay. So I'm not reading it alone. All right. And he just went, yeah, okay. And we read it. And then...

I wasn't chit-chatting because I knew for auditions, you're not there to make friends. He's going to do that. I'll just respond with a joke, but maybe a little too dry. And I left. And I'm walking down. It's a very long hall. And he

I hear the door open and he's peeking out looking really scared, like to make sure that I'm leaving the building. And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm kind of smiling like, he's so funny. We're still doing our bit. And he's like, we will call. We really will call. And I go, all right. And I keep going and I'm like, it wasn't a bit. He's really scared of me. Oh my God, I was too dry. I didn't wink enough at the bit. It had nothing to do with the scene.

It was like whatever I did, like just joking back, didn't work.

I hated it. Can you imagine? Because I loved him so much. It's like, wouldn't it mean so much that, you know, Gary Shandling thinks I'm funny? I'm sure Gary Shandling thought you were. There's no way in the world. Oh, please. No, he was so real. He's a quirky guy. I mean, you're describing a moment in time. And with a quirky guy like Gary Shandling, I loved him. But, yes, a little unpredictable at any given moment. Mm-hmm.

I mean, we had a moment working on that thing together that was highly unpleasant. It happens in show business. People cross, and again, young. Listen, I just thought of this, speaking of how stupid I could have been in a room. When I first auditioned out here, I didn't understand that

Sometimes you just said producers were the writers. Well, me neither. Okay. Right. So I read for the two producers and then I go, who wrote this shit? I swear to God that happened. Oh, my God. I know. And I live to tell the tale. I mean, like, many times I feel like I could have, like. I'm sorry. That is stupid. Sure.

Because even if they're not the writers, they're still producing it. I know. So it's not like someone's got a gun to their head to produce it. Again, and I bet you a lot of people in America can relate to this. The word producer is very fuzzy.

It kind of still is for us because it's like it could really mean anything. So I kind of had in my head producer, you know, Dori Sherry, you know, sitting in an office with a phone, you know, like, hello, I'm here from Galactic Pictures and I'd like to see that audition from Bill Maher. That was the producer.

Not the writers. The writers were scribes. You know, they were like guys in T-shirts. And so I just thought, oh, these are the producers. And they probably think they must know that this is shit. Right.

It's so funny. I know I was tempted at times so that they would know that I know that it's no good. It's like, where does that get you? It doesn't get you anywhere. But to this day, when someone says they're a producer, I still have 500 questions. Like a concierge or like a...

Writer like what what form does your role as producer take is it creative at all? Or are you a line for right like you actually get the show done like right? No, it's it's so it's almost anything and then of course it gets muddied even more because the inflation of the title is

that anyone who is anything on the show, I've seen 20 producer people. And I know these are the writers. They just want a producer credit because then you're in that union or it's all that kind of bullshit. So we don't know what... Well, it's a promotion. And then you're working your way up to executive producer. Once you get executive producer, they can trust you to create a show, maybe run a show. Right. But people get... And get a piece of the show. But you can read a...

You can read a name on a screen, and all it says is produced by, and it's somebody, and that is a straight-up writer. Right. That person does no producing. They are just on a writing staff doing the writing. Yeah. I wonder how that happened. Because the title is worth something. It's like a cab medallion. No, but how did the producers' union even allow the title to be produced?

You know, like there's the producers guild, right? And there's the writers guild. Like how was it allowed? That's what... How come you can't just say I'm a director too? That's what agents... You know, there's no crossover there.

We are supported by SignalWire. If you're a developer or product builder trying to add video communication to your app or service, there is no good option. You either build from scratch, which can take forever, or try to repurpose an existing app like Zoom, or as I like to call it, hey, you froze.

But what if you could have out-of-the-box video conference ability with unlimited control to customize the experience to fit your application? I really hope the nerds are listening because this is good shit. SignalWire is a technology arsenal that allows anyone with an idea to create more natural real-time interactive experiences and do it fast. With SignalWire, you can build whatever you can imagine with cutting-edge real-time video.

And SignalWire provides developer-friendly APIs and SDKs to help you get up and running with a few clicks and a snippet of code instead of months of complex development work. Visit SignalWire.com slash random to sign up for a free account and receive an additional 5,000 video minutes for testing your app or integration. Go to SignalWire.com slash random. Get communications APIs from the OGs of software. Define telecom at SignalWire.

Go to signalwire.com slash random. Wait, I have to tell you something. Yes, do it. No, no, you said something once and it was a huge, it was a geological shift for me.

With regards to the comeback, because we had gotten canceled and I didn't feel bad about it because I felt like, well, someone made a mistake. And that's their mistake. We did the best show we could. Someone didn't like it or I don't know what. Nothing I can do about that. I'm just proud of what we did. Honestly, I felt fine. And then...

You know, people kept saying, especially business people, I'm getting to you, but business, you know, like executive types or people who ran networks that I happen to know, you know, would say, what happened? Were the ratings bad? No, they were the same, if not better than Entourage that started the, you know, season before. Well, it must have been something.

I said, I don't know. Michael thought maybe because, you know, we don't have a point of reference for a woman in that role, you know? And that's what it is. That's what it is. Wait, wait. I don't understand that. What does that mean, point of reference for a woman? For a woman who...

The lead is a woman. Not just the lead, but flawed and having that kind of ego and being humiliated. Too flawed? And setting herself up for humiliation. Kept stepping into that. And I couldn't, I was like, yeah, that's fine. How is that though? And how could I forget? Is that possibly it? Then you said something. I was watching your show.

And it wasn't related. It was just that you were talking about someone made a joke at the expense of, you know, someone who's, you know, from a marginalized group. And I don't remember specifically what it was. And you said, come on, you know, I'm all for humor is humor and it should be allowed. Okay. You don't make fun of the victim. You know, that's not going to work. And that's when the penny dropped and I went...

Because women are not the people in power. They're not like the white guy in power. And women are kind of that marginalized group. Wow. It really bothered a lot of people to watch a woman get humiliated all the time.

I feel like that's a casualty of an audience that was, I'm sorry, the people who didn't get it or just not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine. There are things I'm unsophisticated in and I do not appreciate. Hockey, for example. Yeah. Okay. And others. I'm stupid like watching, like,

murky thriller mystery types. That's when I need a girlfriend. Someone who I'm always watching a movie with, honey, what happened there with the guy? Oh, that's the same guy. Oh, I didn't see that where he put the paper down. That's where a girlfriend would be good. Or anyone watching it. Paying closer attention. Not that I'm a lonely guy. I'm just saying the kind of person you're watching movies with and you can always ask. But

So we're all dim in our own ways, but they're missing... Like, that is the... What's such genius about that character is that, you know, she...

That's what's funny. I mean, WC Fields falling. Right, but you're not seeing the difference between a man behaving like that and a woman behaving like that. It's like that's how people who are driven towards something like the spotlight, yeah, they're going to make stupid things. I don't think that's what it was. You don't? No, because I think everybody, I think that's what made it very relatable because the subject matter is very specific. That is where you lost people because it's like, what is this world? To us, it's our world.

And also the level of subtlety in the comedy that you were working with is something that, that's what made me love this show so much and watch it multiple times because the level of the subtlety. But that's my business or my mind or whatever. Many people, that kind of subtlety is just not in the realm of possibility for them to appreciate. I don't mean that as a put-down. I just mean... No, no. I don't take it. Let me give you an example of a scene.

You were talking, the gay makeup guy. Yeah, Mickey. Mickey. Yeah. Okay. And you run into this other guy and you're asking about some other friend. I mean, I think they were both gay and so that was in the mix of the scene. And it was so brilliant because you never enunciated what we were thinking and yet we knew what it was because they tell you, they give you this piece of information, oh no, he died. Right.

And you react, you never say the word AIDS. Right. But you're like, oh. And then he goes, oh, no, he was hit by a car crossing Barham. And you go, oh, good. No, not good. Right. And, like, encapsulated in that 13 seconds of genius comedy. That's how you know she thought it was AIDS. So much. But without ever saying it. Right.

To me, that is the genius of that show. I also see how other people go, what was that conversation? Why is that funny? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And that's... I have the same sort of issue with stuff. I mean, one reason I started this podcast is because...

Lots of people just are not interested in politics or what's really, you know, that kind of stuff at all. They're interested in more human stuff that is relatable to everybody's lives. They don't want to hear about Ukraine and the UN and the fucking ACLU and abortion. And that's fine. And they never will. And I will never get them. But this...

Anybody can listen to this. Yeah. Because you just want to entertain. I just want to get high with you. That's what I really, that's what I want to do. But I do just want to entertain, honestly. I mean, I do think there's not entertain. That makes me sound like Ginger from Gilligan's Island. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Yeah, no, I don't. But I do think it's really necessary. Sweetheart, you don't have to fucking convince me on that one. I am all about the idea that we're all just in entertainment. We use different clay. You know, I don't see my people, Bill, you're a pundit. Well, you know, I think I am selling wisdom out there. Yes, I think the country's fucking dumb and they do need me to straighten it out. I'm not going to lie about that. But I...

My main thing is I'm entertaining. Yeah. And if I'm not, I'm nothing. Right. Because that's how I look at shit. If you don't entertain me, like, you know, we did a funny thing about a year ago, and not this Oscar batch, but the one before was just incredibly lugubrious. Mm-hmm. You know, Minari and, you know, the Nomadland, and it was just Debbie Downer time. Mm-hmm. You know?

And we did a whole, it was funny about like, come on, you know, it's got to be a little entertaining. And yes, we understand there are issues and you can't, but Hollywood did used to know how to take an issue, but also make it not just sad. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So when you say you're out to entertain, you had me in hello with that one. Yeah. Well, I think everyone needs a break. I mean, that's what everyone wants.

Really badly. They really want a break. But by the way, your show, you have no agenda. You're just a very funny person. And you're being really honest and brave about what you think about things and how you feel about how people respond to what you think, too. Like, you know, I actually said like, you know. But, yeah.

Yeah, and... No, and there's a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in that. But we both, I think, have these kind of careers where we got the memo fairly early on. There is somewhat of a ceiling for us. Yeah. And it is a ceiling created by the fact that, you know, there are levels of subtlety that, you know, everybody can go and enjoy...

what's the top gun? Uh-huh. Yeah, right. I mean, it's a billion dollar opening and a billion people will see it. We're not playing in that

No. I don't see. Yeah. I can't imagine. We can't. We really don't even want to, right? I can't imagine anyone asking me to be in Maverick 3 or whatever. You know, it would be great. Actually, you would fucking steal that. It would be so great if they actually did that. I know, but who's going, wait, are you 60 yet? Because it would be great.

But you don't look anywhere near 60. Oh, good. Yeah, you look great. Thank you. You always did. Thank you. I always thought you, I mean, I always had a little crush on you on Friends because I thought you were the smart one on your show. She's got dizzy. And I was, quite frankly, the smart one on my show. Wait, I was the only one on my show.

Which makes you the smartest one on your show. But, I mean, not that everybody on this show wasn't smart. They were all smart. Everybody's smart. Yeah, they are. Just smart. Well, but they are. They are. They really are. They actually are. And they're all good. Learned a lot from them. Yeah. Yeah.

But I would say even they probably would agree. If you had to vote for who was the smartest, it would probably be you. Who's the smartest? Who's the one that drones on and on about things we don't want to talk about? Who's the one that always has a theory about something? Is that what you did? Yeah. Really? Oh, I always was. I'm always like, what's my theory behind that? You know.

But you have a lot of time to kill while they're setting up and shit, right? That's what I remember from sitcoms. Right, chill. But I would bring up, you know, look, well, no, I'm watching CNN. You've got to see what's happening here. It's very important. And they didn't want to get into that? Okay, yeah, no, I'll be back. Will you tell me what happened? Yeah. What were they talking about? Um...

Things that people talk about. I mean, other things. Yes, that. Of course, you were in your 20s. But not for as long as I'm, not me. I was 30 when we started it. 30, ha ha. I was in my 30s. Same thing. Yeah. But, yeah, but people in their 20s generally tend to be more, you know, first of all, sort of like navel-gazing. I mean, it's like your first, I would say you're born twice in life. Once when you're actually born. What? Someone's calling me. Oh, on your phone? I mean, on your watch? Yeah.

Oh, for fuck's sake. I can't even. I dismissed it. No, no, no. I just don't. I've never seen anybody get a call on their watch. Because my phone's just right there. So it rings on here. But why do you need that extra layer of... That's not why I have it. Why do you have it?

I like to know what time it is. But you didn't have to get a watch that hooked up to your phone. And it also tells me, you know, if I've taken any steps today or was I just sitting in my chair all day. But your brain knows that. Not anymore, Bill. What are you saying? You're an android? You're like, do you know Ray Kurzweil? No. Oh, he's an author.

It's really important, I guess. It is? All right. I'll let you get out of here if you need to. He's an amazing thinker and scientist and professor. And he's been right, predicted a lot of amazing things like down to the year, like the fall of the Soviet Union. Oh, wow. But he has a book called The Singularity, which says in 2028...

Man and machine will basically become... I mean, that's only six years away. Now, of course, we are already partway there. People do have parts in them that are machine parts. Yes, with computers in it, some of them even. Yes. With things that communicate with computers. I mean, as you and I are, you know, punching old age in the mouth, is this something that, like...

You would consider? Like, because I sure would. Really? Well, I mean, if I could just keep my brain and my dick. Your two favorite things. The rest of it.

The rest of it you can fucking replace. Your two favorite things. But they have a sibling rivalry. Oh, why argue? He's always going to win. Still, that's pretty good. Yeah, that is pretty good. We'll be right back. Do you have to take your call? No, absolutely not. Okay, all right. I know.

I'm just so grateful you're here. Wait, can I ask you one question? Yes, you can ask me anything. We're sitting around drinking. What field of history, what were you studying? What was it? Well, I was at Cornell and I was trying to establish that. I knew I loved history. Taught myself American history. Could name all the American presidents in a row if you forced me to. Not because I have it memorized, just because I know the history. I think I could.

Anyway, so I did love Medieval. That really called to me. And I remember, I mean, this is before computers, so we were in the stacks, you know, the library. I loved the stacks. Yeah, the stacks. See, you're the smart one. You're in the stacks. The girl in the stacks. That'd be a good romantic song or movie that I'll never write. The girl in the stacks, everybody. I'll see you tomorrow night. It's kind of sexy, that title.

Girl in the Stacks? Yeah. Yeah. But it would have to be a period piece because there's no more stacks. No. But I remember being in there, these dusty old books, and I was writing some paper on something in the medieval period. And the professor, he's talking about the paper or something, and I asked him a question. And he said, well, it doesn't matter. At this point, there's really nothing new you could add to this.

And I'm like, then what the fuck am I doing with this as a major? Now, mind you, I knew I was going to be a comedian when I was 10. Oh, okay. So when I was at college, I really wasn't trying to get a degree that would get me a job. I knew what I was going to do. Okay. You know, go and hang. So the grades weren't, you weren't out for, I got to get an A. No, but I did anyway. I was always. Wow. I was a straight A student in high school. I missed one day of high school. Wow. COVID. COVID.

And no, but I love the subject. If I had like a 28-hour day, I would spend two of them just reading history. Wow. I don't agree with that professor, though. There's no such thing.

But it was discouraging. Right. How were you to know then? No, because I got to say. I was younger than when I was the idiot who wrote this show. Can you imagine how stupid I was then? Well. No. It's almost beyond. No, but because I've got to say, doing, who do you think you are?

And the historians, you know, that give us context for whatever the person's looking at. There's so many different interpretations of history. So my question is, so would you read different historians who had differing opinions about certain events? Yeah, I mean, there's always someone who wants to be a revisionist.

Based on new letters they found, new information? Just based on they have to publish something. Okay. Yeah, that's a problem too. That's a lot of what academia is such a scuzzy area. I know it's people, I'm sure there's plenty of professors now like dropping their pipes. How dare you?

Yes, I'm sure there's exceptions. And yes, we need colleges and universities. But a lot of it is they know this better than anybody, political and what you publish. And yes, sometimes you just have to find. I don't think that professor was wrong when he said that.

If I was researching the Venerable Bede or somebody who lived in 690 in Lindisfarne in the monastery, no, we're not going to find anything new about this motherfucker. Anything that came out about this guy, we know, I think. There's no more Venerable Bede stuff. TMZ is not going to come out tomorrow. There's a story about the Venerable Bede. Well, no, TMZ won't.

But who knows? Sometimes there's a letter. There's a something somewhere. But even without that, it's just...

I don't know. And then you have archaeology where they find new things about how people were killed or what they were eating, if someone was poisoned or... Well, that doesn't happen that often. That can, but where that does happen a lot, of course, is in early man history. That is always changing because they don't have the complete fossil record at all. They have pieces here and pieces there. Don't get me started on the fossil record.

No, evolutionary biology was what I was interested in. Before comedy? Yeah, before comedy. Yeah, that's what I was studying in school. Well, that's why I always thought for your genealogy show, you should have on Lucy. Okay. Lucy. Yeah, the very first. Who better? But not the very first anymore, I don't think. Well...

Early. Early. I'm related to her, I think. We're all related to her. Who was Lucy? Tell the audience who Lucy is. Lucy was, well, I don't know when. I don't have the details. 2.5 million years ago. That's it? Yes. Lucy was about four feet tall and lived about two and a half million years ago and is one of our direct ancestors. Yeah. Humans. Humans.

came along, you know, like 200,000 years ago. And, of course, we are not the only human species. We wipe the other ones out. You know, wherever...

have you read the uh great book sapiens no oh that's you love it no i didn't that is a book for you you'd love that book okay because it talks about well many things about sapiens but one wherever humans went the fossil record is very clear we killed everything including the other human species yeah and the other big animal species like

There's a whole bunch of species, for example, in Australia. And then humans arrive. And a thousand years later, we don't have any fossils from those big animals. They just fucking killed them all. Like the way the people killed the buffalo in our American West. Just for fun and just like... Well, for fun. They're food, too. Food, but they killed a lot of buffalo just because... I mean, they were just...

They would have a herd and there were just too many to use. The Indians, of course, used all the buffalo. Right. We were the opposite. Yeah. And we're still those assholes. Yeah, that's right. When are we going to stop being surprised? Well, I mean... Get used to it. No, that's not the right attitude. And it's not funny enough to even say. But... Well, I mean, not that... Look, all humans...

are shitty people. You know, it's not like Indians didn't do shitty things too to each other. If, yeah, if feeling insecure enough and scared enough, I think humans become really shitty. But I think when there's a crisis...

Or a need for people to come together and help each other? They do. To be cooperative. I think they do. Oh. When it feels imminent. Well, some do, and some take advantage of the situation. Many take advantage. Some do. But then Sheriff Taylor runs them out of town. So it's okay. Is that where you're getting this? That was a great lesson teaching show.

There used to be great lessons. I was just going to say, remember when you'd watch a show and there was always, you knew that the right thing would happen in the end? And I miss that. There was a great classic episode of, what was it called? Mayberry. Oh, well, now I can't remember. I mean, the town was Mayberry. Was it called Mayberry RFD or...

Welcome to Mayberry or... The Andy Griffith Show. The Andy Griffith Show. Exactly. You know why? Because... We can't... I'm like... Right. The Andy Griffith Show. Sheriff without a gun? No, that one... I watched it in reruns when I was a kid when I was homesick. And I loved it. Me too. So there was an episode where Opie, Ron Howard, of course, later to be the great director Ron Howard, he kills a bird with a slingshot. And...

And then Andy's trying to teach him a lesson why he shouldn't have done that. And he's complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, yeah, well, I'm not going to shoo that bird away. That's that bird calling for his mama, and I'm going to let you hear how sad she is. Wow. So I don't know why that one stuck in my memory, that episode. But it may have been why I...

I joined PETA in the 90s, and I've been a PETA board member all these years. You know? Yeah. No, but it's also, it's right, and it's kind of sophisticated. Because it's very easy to say, all right, you killed a bird, you didn't have to do that, but all right. I mean, because that's how a lot of people felt like, well, it's a bird. It's not a conscious being like we are. Right.

Did you know HBO Max had podcasts? I'm on my podcast talking about the podcast on my network. This must be what the metaverse feels like.

Now go even deeper inside your favorite shows with audio companions to some of the most groundbreaking and award-winning shows on television. The HBO Max series Hacks is back. Oh, good, with a new season and a new companion podcast. In each episode, Hacks creators Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs, and Jen Statsky will be joined by a special guest host like Hannah Einbinder, Darcy Carden, Susie Essman, and more. Unpack each episode of Deborah and Ava's hijinks.

Listeners will hear stories from the show's writers, room, on set, and the world of stand-up and entertainment that inspired the show. You can listen to the official Hacks podcast on HBO Max and wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, we have to treat each other with respect. If we're all working on something...

You have to show some appreciation for what other people are contributing. You know, I don't mean demonstrate it every day. Show appreciation and not saying, what the fuck, you did it wrong. You know, you don't talk to someone like that. Is that what your experience has been on sets? Yeah.

Yeah. Not to me personally, but I've seen it. Yes, but sets are tense places. But they don't have to be. No. They're less tense now. I feel like the ones I've been on have been much less tense. Really? But it's a high wire industry. I mean, we're paid more than...

Most people. A lot more. Mm-hmm. Okay. You're up on a higher wire. Like, if you fuck up, it can be in front of millions instead of just three people, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. What's at stake if you're on a film set? You know, a film is very often...

you know, $150 million startup industry. That's really, it's a quick startup industry that's investing $150 million. If you were making widgets, it's like, boy, we better sell some of these widgets and it could fail. Yeah, it could. Yeah. So people are tense. And I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn't some sort of blow up.

Or people going nuts. I mean, we see some of them on film. We've seen actors and directors go nuts. From a while ago. I've had it happen to me personally on a set. Like just screamed at by someone for no good reason. Right. And then how did it go after that?

That's a sitcom that was not the one I talked about before, but the other one that was quickly canceled. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, but it's just... Yeah, it's rough. It doesn't have, but it's not necessary. It's not, you know...

You handed me the wrong instrument for this brain surgery. That's not what it is. It's not in the moment life and death. It's digital. It's not even film. We can do the take again. But show people. We have editors. I mean, there's...

Everyone has, and your best work comes when you're just a little more relaxed. You know, you have like a nervous energy, but it doesn't have to be an angry energy. You know what I mean? It's just... Yeah, I mean, but again, it's hard to get the very talented people without their fucking quirks. Show people are just their...

Everything about them is exaggerated. You know, they're very often exaggeratedly good looking, temperamental. You know, my friend always says insanity photographs. Oh. You know, they're crazy people. But something about that is also charismatic and you can't take your eyes off it. Or honest because they can't help themselves. Sometimes. Yes. Trump's that way. You know, he can't help revealing himself. Yeah.

Yeah. So I don't know if you're ever going to have this utopia where you have the really talented people and there's not craziness going on. It's a crazy business. You know, okay. I mean, I know plenty of talented people that are not crazy. I agree. And if you have the choice to work with them, you should. Yeah. But there might be a... But there's less tolerance for...

the ones that act out and misbehave and make it a miserable experience. Yeah. And to me, that's a good thing. Yeah, unless they make a fortune. If the thing makes a fortune because of that person, they're going to put up with an amazing amount of shit. They are. But you're saying, I mean, I don't know that I agree that a person's difficult, you know, punishing situation

side of them is what makes them talented. I think maybe they think it is, but I don't think it is. I really don't. I'm just saying... I don't think they trust that they've just got it and you don't have to panic or worry over it. I'm just saying, I don't think they're separable, you know?

watching the Johnny Depp trial. I mean, some of the things he was doing, passing out and throwing plates and, you know. Throwing places. That's right. You know, calling her a cunt and this and that are not model behavior. No. But the jury forgave him because he's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate those two things. He's a nut. He always was a nut. Insanity photographs,

It works on camera. And if you took away the insanity, I think, you know, you'd have Richard Grieco. I almost said, wait, who? He was this...

Richard Grieco. No, I do know the name. Now I got it. Sorry. Oh, I got so many people mad at me. He was a very good-looking actor on one of those shows like 21 Jump Street. Oh, yeah. He had a minute there where he was the it boy. Yeah, I wasn't watching TV at that time. But it didn't quite...

I'm sure there are people who bet money on Richard Grieco and not Johnny Depp.

And after that trial, I bet you Richard Greco was like, boy, I dodged a bullet there. Yeah. All right. I'll let you go back to your life in the wild. And you need to find another clove cigarette. Oh, I got them right here. Oh, it's a pretty case. I know. I find it so sophisticated to have a little. It is. It's really elegant. Yes.

Very nice. Madame? No. No, thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. This was more fun than I could tell you. And I'm so flattered that you just did it. Yeah, why wouldn't I? Because you need me like a hole in the head. What? That's how I feel about you. You're you. No, you know there's a big difference. I do.

Don't make me go through other parts of the comeback that... Yeah. But meanwhile, by the way, I brought that whole thing up for a reason was because it made sense to me, like for the first time when you... And I was like, so... Oh, good. Because the people that I had talked to thinking, they see women as victims. And it never dawned on me. Just like it never dawned on you that, you know... But that was...

It never dawned on me. And I went, shit, you missed it again. But that character was so much more than just that. I mean, that was certainly... I thought so. The MacGuffin that gets the character going. I mean, that...

But, again, I think that's what was relatable. We've all been the person who thinks they're going to be cast as the young hot one, not literally, but in life, but really is going to be the shrumpy aunt with the catchphrase. I mean, that...

alone, you know, should have won you all the awards because that was just so perfect. And certainly everybody in show business knows it, but in life it happens too. Yes, no, we had... It does. There are plenty of people in other industries that went, yeah, I mean... Of course. You think you're going to... And they don't. They see you as this. And the way she smiled through it all... Yes. How about that? She never, like, let it get them down. I mean, she never let that...

Having said that guy who I'm still afraid of... Pauly G. Oh, I did not like him. Remember one time he was getting blown when you walked in on him? Oh, it was just... Everything was just terrible about him. He still scares me. He should have been on Oz. Oh, so funny. It was so scary. But, like, he never... Like, he would never... You would never get bitter. You know, you would never...

You would just soldier on. Just keep going. Yes. Yeah. I find that so much more inspiring than, you know. I think it has to do with how you see things. Because for some people, it was like, she just got humiliated at every turn. And for other people, it was like, no, she just kept going. She just kept saying, yeah, I clocked that. I won't have it. I'm going to create my own reality. Here we go. And then they were nice enough to, somebody was smart enough to do it again. Yeah, that was fun.

A third time? Maybe. Yeah. It's been nine years, so maybe. I mean, that character is... I know, I slip into her so easily. I mean, there are people who have done, you know, as through time, they've done the same character. They just picked it up. It's, you know. Yeah. Alan Partridge. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Now the mics are off.

All right. That was fun. Thanks. I feel like I got to know you. Me too. Love it. Good, the podcast. Love it.